Women's Issues

[Steph]

Women's Issues If Art imitates Life, what does Literature show about the place of women in our society? From the Red Tent to the new movie Anna Karenina,  to Malala Yousafzai in the news, has the state of women changed? What IS the state of women today, in your opinion? Let's talk about how women are portrayed in the press, and in literature, and how accurate it is.   How does advertising reflect, if it does, how women are portrayed?  (Remember heels and pearls to sell refrigerators?) How does it seem to you that women are portrayed today? Let's talk! National Women's History Project

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The stoning horror is beyond belief. Oh please make them be punished. But then the man she married was no picnic. He declares, he killed his first wife so he could marry her. Not a nice person.

[MaryPage]

It is not just the individual cases which need to be punished severely and resolved, it is the overriding, pervasive attitude of those born male into this world that they are in every way superior to those of the female gender, that the female gender belongs to a lesser servant class of beings, and that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with raping and killing them, that this treatment is no more than swatting and killing gnats or mosquitoes or flies, which must be addressed and radically changed.  Such men have a mind set that it is fairly easy to get new wifes and daughters.  After all, all females are property.
IF, of course, the females raped and/or killed are YOUR property, the perpetrators are guilty of taking YOUR property for their own use!  In other words, YOU may rape and kill your daughters, but it is a crime of theft for other men so to do!  And if these other than family men rape, but do not kill, your daughters, well, those females are SPOILED, like rancid meat, and must be destroyed by killing them yourself.

[BarbStAubrey]

There is a cultural aspect that I am not sure we understand except through our own eyes - I think till we get to the bottom of this we are failing around in the dark. We believe it is about power and in our Western culture we see the evidence of the need for power - but my thinking is there is a basis for the need for power among especially the Indian population although, this is equal a problem beyond our own in Africa.

One thought and I am sorry this sounds terrible but it is my experience - I have not had a RE transaction that involved an Indian couple without enormous aggression, beyond trying to find loopholes in the law but out right doing things their way until, they come up against the legal aspects that will allow them to close. They push and push for every speck and are at times raging at the closing table because of some of the unknowns - I am very capable of working with most Asians but if I can avoid it I prefer not working with those from India.

When I shared this with my daughter feeling embarrassed by my own attitude she informed me there was an announcement or special or something on CNN where back east there are actual classes for Indians to learn how to be less aggressive in order to get the service they would like here in the USA. The basis of this aggression was explained that the mass of population in India meant, to get anything that was what the behavior used and learned early.

I am seeing here very educated folks coming from comfortable circumstances in India and yet, this uncomfortable aggressive behavior that ALWAYS put down women - agents are treated like servants and among some couples the women are strong, acting out more aggressively than the man but only within the marriage - as soon as another Indian male or a "white" is part of the scene she becomes subservient. She usually ignores the agent and directs all her demands to the air and to her husband - some husbands are stoic and others smile and others go along with taking her seriously -

I find the other Asians who do slip into their native language - yes, buying or selling Real Estate is very stressful and I understand but they then look at me and either recap or apologize - I can usually tell from body language and a word here and there what the issue is and sure enough when I share they look at each other and then share with me their concern however, I can not tell from body language what the Indian folks are talking about - every thing is such drama and they talk to each other insistently in Hindi especially the women to other women.

I also learned that India, the land area is smaller than that of China and yet they have 2 billion more people than China. And so I do not see the treatment of women changing that dramatically in a short time - addressing the treatment of women may end up affecting the entire culture or system because I can see that women being available the population continues to explode and without an understanding of the religion, the basis of a culture that we do not know enough about to find out how a women is valued and viewed - clearly most religions do not respect women equal to men and I would be shocked if it were any different in India.

There appears to be a fear underlying most of the arguments by men - something about their not controlling their sperm and they wanting to see the fruits of their sperm in the form of children - brothels are for play, wives are for the production of children - what that fear is all about is not talked about - this is far more basic than producing enough children to help the family economy and to assure enough of their children make it to adults. This is far more basic than a future that includes children as a value to a family - this is something that is more basic and about them - in a society that does not live by laws and rules but on influence - yes, even here it is finding a neighbor or business friend who knows the seller to influence the seller to take their offer They use every emotional rational you can imagine regardless if the seller is Indian, Asian, Mexican, or as we whites are called Anglos - that use of influence is how, we see in the news, groups form for or against how women are treated and how the police attempt to carry out justice.

To me this is a dilemma that is deeper than looking at rape in US collages or any of the other myriad ways that western women are de-valued.

[mrssherlock]

I think it is testosterone poisoning (re: Click and Clack).  Boys grow up competing in everything.  Buddiedom is the result of mutual aid to some outside threat.  Without that bond, everyone is perceived to be a competitor. And, yes, size does matter.  I have worked with two men whose physical endowments were on the plus plus size, as stated by women who had been intimate with them. They swaggered as they walked, announcing their self perceived superiority.  What woman can 'compete' with that  How many times a day do they expose their shortcomings (pun intended) in the men's room?   

re:  East Indians, I've heard that they are terrible passengers, treating flight attendants as personal servants, i.e., expecting them to change baby's diaper!  Arrogance to the utmost.  Coloring our expectations much as 'The Ugly American' did post WWII.

[mabel1015j]

To a great woman! If you are a Maya Angelou fan, or just want to hear some good life advice, turn to OWN. Oprah is airing many of her interviews with Maya through thus whole evening. It's a real life lesson!

Jean

[Steph]

I read a lot of Angelou, but did not like her in person much at all..
East Indians, we have a lot of them in central Florida and I have always stayed as far away as possible. We had two real estate agents in the office I worked in for a while and they handled most of them.l Very difficult clients and given to being truly obnoxious with what they want.

[MaryPage]

Apparently George Will has written an outrageous column about rape.  I have not actually read it, and I look forward to doing so soonest.  Everyone seems to be calling for him to be fired.  I have never liked his politics, but have admired his writing and, most especially, his love of and knowledge about baseball.  I have always thought I might like the person himself, but as I just stated, I have hated his politics.  This, however, blows my mind.  It does not at all fit with the person I thought I knew.  Oh well.
One cannot help but wonder what the women in his life think!

[Steph]

Hmm, I get Washington Post on my IPAD. Is he in it??

[maryz]

This was the quote for the day on Wordsmith this morning.

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
I believe that in the course of the next century the notion that it's a woman's duty to have children will change and make way for the respect and admiration of all women, who bear their burdens without complaint or a lot of pompous words! -Anne Frank, diarist (1929-1945)

[MaryPage]

George Will has been in The Washington Post and Newsweek for eons and eons, Steph.  This particular column is titled:  COLLEGES BECOME THE VICTIMS OF PROGRESSIVISM and it was published on June 6, 2014.

[mrssherlock]

Ginny:  Don't you think the women in George Will's life are well aware of his attitudes?  I'm going to look up that column.  Will has never appealed to me for a variety of reasons and it seems he has lived down to my expectations.

[Steph]

I read the column.. He had some real points. The college girl mentioned was probably the stupidest individual I have ever seen. Not sure rape was the word for her. Stupid is better by far. He was really making points on the colleges and their crackdowns. I think they need to crack down,but there are a tremendous number of girls who go to school, drink themselves dumber than normal, then complain .. Take charge of your life .. Young women need to think of this. Having just spent some time with my 18 y.o . granddaughter, I see that they have a need to be grown up and in charge, but are not quite sure how to do it.

[MaryPage]

But Steph, his use of this frivolous girl as an example of ALL college women is cruel and unfair, and his overall tone is dismissive of women altogether.  He definitely seems to be trying to say all women are liars and there is no such crime as rape;  and Galfriend, you and I know THERE IS!

[ginny]

Jackie, not me this time.  .  Haven't read the George Will.   

[BarbStAubrey]

I am thinking drinking yourself numb is still not a reason for guy to rape a girl - just like a young girl should be able to walk in her house after getting out of the tub without feeling responsible for what a male family member does to her naked body. Thinking the other way we do not have guys fearing if they drink till numb a girl is going to rape them or a man in his home thinking he will be fondled or more when he leaves the tub or shower. This business of hormones work both ways - what is lacking is equal respect. 

[mabel1015j]

I agree, making the bad decision to drink so much you can't make good decisions should not give anybody the option of putting their hands on you, or worse. I'm not crazy about some of the tight or lack of clothing that some women are wearing these days, but that also does not open the door for any man to assume ownership, in any way.

Has Will never heard of the date-rape drug? That's one of the scariest things happening these days.

Jean

[Steph]

I am not saying George is right, but I am saying that I knew girls when I was in college who did the stupidest possible things deliberately.Then they would whine and cry and go...oh no it is not my fault , I was drinking or sleepy or not paying attention.   I also feel that given the hormonal drive, it only makes sense to use some sense in what you do or wear or say.. Not for or against rape, but for common sense.

[MaryPage]

I understand exactly where y'all are coming from, and I agree with you totally respecting (or not!) the choices those women make.
What drives me insane is using these frivolous, crazy-insane examples as an excuse to exculpate the entire male college sex of any and all charges of rape.
It is very similar to giving a couple of outrageous examples of welfare fraud, and then deciding to quit programs to feed starving children.  Scheesch!
FACT!  WOMEN GET WAYLAID AND RAPED.
Women who are NOT scantily attired (and yes, I agree;  women in Bikinis or whatever are STILL not "asking for it.") or drunk, or who have even HAD a swallow of alcohol,  get raped. Women in twos and threes get raped.  But ladies, little girls get raped.  Babies get raped. We HAVE to admit and acknowledge that rape is a terrible threat to our sex and make better, stronger laws to protect ourselves.
Men such as Will going out of their way to dismiss rape and put it all on us is just so damn typical, I could puke!

[BarbStAubrey]

To me saying girls should dress and act a certain way is saying a guy has no control over his hormonal instincts - we know that is not true since we all know, within our community of family and friends that many of our young men are decent guys who respect women and would not take advantage of a situation - so why the difference - why are some so incapable of feeling if a girl does not act in a certain way or dress in the certain way she is asking for it - I still say turn it around and if a guy were to act or dress inappropriately he is seldom at risk to be raped.

Once we accept what has been known for years now - at least going back to the mid 1980s, that a sexual assault, regardless incest or rape is about the use of power expressed as power over someone using sex, that for some is expressed, as in the not too distant past, as starting a fight - it is the same impulse -

We have stopped men starting a fist fight at the drop of a hat on the street or in a bar and that was blamed on their tempter or "irish" heritage or "German" heritage. We have adults still finding it difficult to stop slapping and hitting kids - which is a power over to get the kid to do what the slapper wants - if these behaviors can be shamed and made into a cartoon of clownish behavior than it could be done for rape - Problem, too many do not touch sexual abuse because of the titillation that confuses folks so they do not see rape and incest as power-over behavior but something that is more a shaming and a misuse of sex with all the social taboos surrounding sex and the awareness that there is something about sex that seems different than getting slapped or hit. It is that very nature of sexual abuse that makes it hard to "get past" and although, the armed services has made PTSD their own it came from and is experienced among women and young girls who are sexually abused -

A soldier did not join up expecting PTSD although, they had an idea they were in danger for loss of life and limb they still did not cause the traumatic events that may have even saved their life that resulted in PTSD - well a girl should not be born expecting PTSD will be her life because of someone's inability to control their hormonal desires and their need to express their sex fantasy without a give and take but with someone they can control.

If we want to say a soldier goes into the service with eyes wide open and learns active behavior that if he ever makes a mistake that is the cause of his dealing with PTSD - No, we realize beyond his control things happen - I think girls should not grow up thinking they are the cause of what happens to them and it is their mistake that a guy abused them.

All these folks who want to give the responsibility for rape to the girls forget that sexual abuse is sexual abuse and dismiss what happens to the 2 year old or 7 year old little girl - how do you prepare her for this responsibility for her abuse - the law is finally seeing otherwise and so now we should have different tiers of what a guy's uncontrollable hormones allows - past a certain age he passes his lack of control onto girls who must be trained to learn that a guy, man or boy is unable to control the functions of his body.

As to girls risking and teasing - if they were not made to feel helpless to a mans lack of control they would not be testing it - if we could all walk through life without dwelling on how a guy will act and re-act to women it would be a mute point -

The idea the kids should learn all this is school - well ask but in a friendly curious way so you get a real answer - most teachers skip over those chapters in 'teen living' classes because they are uncomfortable and so girls are still only learning from each other and older sisters and maybe a mom or two.  Oh we can all say our teacher daughter or niece or nephew teach this to their students but lets face it we are only a drop in the bucket and our friends and family members who do have teachers in their family and who do teach this subject are the very few.

We are not fed a diet on TV of appropriate behavior toward women and girls and we do not have shows that explain sex or power - power is used in a story line and sometimes we are for and sometimes against the one with the power however, that power over others is NEVER shown as one of the basis for sexual abuse.

Those who want to minimize the attacks on girls as being caused by them to me are suggesting it is OK for young men to be sent into harms way based on our feelings - our feelings of another nation not besting us or our interests and if they come back having seen the horrors of war we will minimize it and say they have PTSD, many are affected for life - and that is what happens to most girls and women who are sexually abused in rape or incest, PTSD for life. Any time they are in a helpless situation they knee jerk slip back into being helpless - that is part of PTSD. Then they try to show to themselves they can handle this and put themselves into situations believing they can control the outcome - they loose again -

If a young girl was shamed for her sex growing up she is prime for trying to prove she is able to be sexual - that need for righting her view of her own sexuality is much stronger than reason and she purposely baits thinking she can control the outcome so that when she looses it is a double whammy bringing back all the feelings of the original shaming.  

What I see is for a couple of years in the press we are hearing one after the other story of how women are less - and now they are at the bottom of the barrel back to the 1950s approach that women are responsible for a man's bad behavior.

[mrssherlock]

Barb: How true.  Remember the old saying about the man who looks under his wife's bed for a suspected lover does so because he has been there himself.

[Steph]

Rape is power pure and simple and I do agree that it is wrong under any circumstances. Rape in war zones is beyond belief wrong.. My point that I am not good at making is that I am sorry, I have known women who used their bodies as a way to get what they want. Who take off their clothes in public and act like total idiots. Then they whine and cry and blame all others, never themselves.. There are women in this world who truly amaze me with their wilful nasty behavior. I know.. I know.. but darn it all they need to take some responsibility.

[maryz]

We've had a case going on here.  In a neighboring county, three boys have been charged with sexual assault on a girl (who was drunk, or drugged) at a post-prom party, including penetration with a foreign object.  Obviously lots of hoo-raw about it in the paper, etc. 

A local columnist wrote a column to the effect that the problem was "not about beer", but about the assault.  Then there was the George Will column (which has not been in our local paper). 

This column in the editorial section of today's paper refers to both pieces - worth a few minutes to read.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/jun/15/two-columns-two-views-of-rape/?opinioncolumns 

[MaryPage]

This is the most important statement in that excellent piece:

"One of the biggest problems with the rape culture phenomenon continues to be the way that it minimizes the experience of the victim, in some cases actually rallying support for the perpetrators," PolicyMic stated.

[nlhome]

Maryz, thank you for that link. It is worth reading and thinking about.

I think, Steph, your statement about "willful nasty behavior" could be applied to both sexes.

[BarbStAubrey]

Steph I know what you are speaking of - girls who titillate boys and men justifying it to themselves as getting what they want - and getting what you want using sex is exactly what the rapist does -  however, no one yet has found a link to why some boys and men use rape and incest to get what  they want - both, immediate satisfaction and in the case of incest and neighbor using girls, it is to have continual power over them - the closest they have come is that these men are addicts addicted to sex as others are addicted to the results of liquor or drugs - another tier of addiction is eating and shopping etc.

However, most girls who titillate are attempting to set to right and win this time what was their childhood experience - many girls are made to feel humiliated and helpless as a girl - anything from laughing when they have their first menstruation or teasing when their body starts to show signs of being a women to simple things like making in fun of their ability to learn to drive or how they drive just like a woman - on and on it goes - some internalize it so that we are more careful and do not speak up - others feel shame - others are hurt and may feel guilty or want acceptance and wanting acceptance leads them to be needy therefore, dependent on others for approval. And so the co-dependent wife is created...the result of her childhood experience.

Now the other is to feel angry that as a powerless kid you cannot express but the resentment is there - and this is where the girls who titillate boys are coming from - they want to get it right - they want to win this time - ask them and they do not understand what they are doing anymore than it takes years of therapy to understand your co-dependency and after all that to understand it is still a struggle to not knee jerk react - these girls do not do 'like for like' except, to them they had been trained as a child to make them  feel less and to be the perfect child someone shamed them because of their sex and so, as adults, who expect to have more power than those who used their power to control them as children, 'do unto others (men) what was done unto them' - tease them sexually to get what they want.

Yes, it can make us uncomfortable - and no we cannot help them to change - many do not change until they cannot get what they want any longer on their looks or sexual innuendos.  So please it is not the girls/women we need to be upset and angry with - it is how they were treated as children and how we treat girl children today and what all this making women into second class citizens that is going on is re-traumatizing many women who were made powerless to be treated with dignity when they were children. It brings back the wave of anger or guilt or shame or - or - or...

There have been so many studies showing that anyplace from 75% to 90% of girls who work strip bars and prostitutes were sexually abused as children - a side note that is seldom made public - we had so many girls become nuns when they wore a habit not because of the good works they did - it was safe for those girls who felt unworthy, afraid, guilt and shame because of sexual trauma as children. The habit was a shield just like caring little for your body since others showed no respect for it and therefore flashing your body because you are not really attached to it and it becomes both a shield to the inner-self and a battering ram.

The un-comfort you feel may never go away and averting eyes even in a movie showing women who do not respect their own body as an embarrassment but please just say a prayer for these women - their behavior did not get plucked out of no-where.

[Steph]

My husband and I were the targets of a predatory woman who worked with him and had a truly horrible time with her. She finally lost her job because she was doing this not only to my husband, but one of the principals in the firm. A truly awful woman, who walked up to us the first time we met her and grabbed my husband by his genital area and said loudly, " hmm, I think I will take you, you look tasty to me" I still remember the phone calls, the drive bys, the absolute nonsense.. I never want to have anyone go through wht I did.  I still think rape is wrong under any circumstances, but I do not believe that all women are trying to get back things.. I think some people are born wrong and never change.

[mabel1015j]

Wow! The comment to the Times Free Press article is alarming. First of all, why can't people have a disagreement of opinion without name calling? I have given up reading the comments in our local digital " newsletter", the Patch. What could be an informational discussion is destroyed by people who appear to not be able to voice their opinion with out being snide and sarcastic, or worse, to those who differ.

Secondly, this man has daughters. I wonder what his response would be if one of them was in the situation of the 18 year old in the story. Would he be supportive of her, or chastise her?

Jackie, you make some interesting, and as always, well written comments, well worth thinking about. Is there any of us who was not teased/ harassed/put down about our bodies in our teen, and maybe adult years? We just didn't have a name for it other then "boys will be boys."

Steph, i'm sorry for you and your husband's horrible experience, how awful for you. Yes, harassment and stalking from women should not be any more accepted then when men harass and stalk. It's all about "my power over you" ( or my need to have your attention, even if it turns out to be negative attention), whatever the power may be. Generally, the woman who behaves like that is mocked, or encouraged, by men who hope to benefit, but who don't see themselves, or their friends as being the same pitiful creature when they harass women. They see them as humorous, or ones who might "get lucky", or as jerks. But seldom talk to them about not doing it, because it's just "boys being boys" and isn't that funny.

Unfortunately we don't teach many girls or boys how to respond assertively to such aggression. One of the programs at The Alice Paul Institute is to teach girls to respond assertively in many circumstances including sexual harassment to themselves or when they observe harassment to others.

Doesn't it make you sad that these circumstances have not changed much in 50 years? I was at a wedding on Sat where almost every woman between 20 and 60, whether married or single, was wearing 4,5 or 6 inch heels and short, tight dresses in which they were obviously uncomfortable. I'm sure it was bcs they thought they were "sexy", but looking uncomfortable does not fit in my definition of sexy. What made me most sad was how important they thought it was to be sexy to men and to hopefully get their approval. I felt like i was back in a different version of the 50s - pointy bras, girdles - whether you need them or not. One 30s something woman who was very tall and SLENDER got up from our table, pulled down her lacey spandex dress and made a comment about having to go fix her SPANKS. My dgt, DIL and i looked at each other w/ raised eyebrows of "she thinks she needs spanks!?!" .......... Siiiigh.........

I thought we had already fought that fight.

Jean

[Steph]

Yes, I noted in both London and Paris, the dresses were incredibly short and tight and riding up all the time.. along with heels that were ankle breakers. Amazing. Like you, I thought we had gotten past all that. I guess as we get older, we do, but the young refight the battle all the time.
Our stalker was excused because she was mentally ill according to her friends, etc. I don't honestly know what was wrong with her. I know that she eventually got aids, would not take the meds and died.. So her life was relatively short. I would be wiling to bet that a lot of people we knew went immediately to be tested when they heard of her diagnosis.

[BarbStAubrey]

Gosh Steph how ugly for both of you - could you imagine a guy coming up in public to a women and doing that - he would be promptly thrown in jail - or at least we hope and imagine he would - she had to have been mentally ill - it was not just sexual abuse but the public display made it even more -

Interesting about the dress you noticed in Europe - when I see it here I think the TV series of Mad Men is at the basis - have not and will not watch it - I lived the 50s and it was not fun. Heck in order to get a promotion the guy's wife had to pass muster by the managers observance that often included his wife getting to know you so she could be the judge - an English drama showing the class system could easily have been replaced for the ways of American 1950s. And now we have guys idealizing that time - I guess it all has to do with the pyramid created with men on top and no women competing for a top spot during the 50s

[Steph]

I married in the late 50's but my husband was a disc jockey, so we really did not have to conform. He was expected to be far out and as his wife, I was too . I always laughed at what they considered our glamerous life.. It wasn't, but people see only what they want to.

[MaryPage]

Ain't THAT the truth!

[Steph]

Some of our problems with the stalker involved the fact that she followed my husband home from the radio station and I was quite pregnant and she barged into the house..So we started off at a bad point.When I called the police after I realized she was hanging around our house all the time, they did nothing, because ( and I quote) she was not harming anyone. Sigh.. I guess hate mail, 2am phone calls and the in his face behavior when he did sock hops and personal appearance did not count.

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh Steph to feel so helpless - and that was the way it was for any domestic issue - I remember it was only in the early 1990s that the fine for men who battered their wives went from a $25 misdemeanor  to something substantial and still the police had to be trained to take domestic violence as serious much less take seriously sexual abuse of any kind. 

At the time I was volunteering at the Battered Women's Center and the worst were the cops themselves who waited in the area since they were the only ones who knew what secluded home was being used for the center and hope to catch either their own or their buddies wife attempting to catch the bus or leave the safety of the house in order to get a job or whatever. They did grab a couple of wives in this process.

As to your situation it sounds like what many in the entertainment business have to endure. I wonder what it is about folks doing their job in that field that attracts so many nuts. 

[Steph]

Yes, my husband wasn't famous by any stretch, but it does not take much to cause problems. After we had moved and he was working at a station in Colmbia,SC, I was working as a bookkeeper at an entertainment complex several days a week. I noted a man who kept coming in and simply hanging around. I found out he was asking people about me and who I was married to.. Then one day, when I took the bus home and picked up the baby, I realized that I saw him when I was entering our apartment complex. That really made me wary. I checked with others who worked in the complex. He had been out of a mental institution for possibly a month or so. Then Tim told me of a very very rabid fan with the same last name. Darn it all. it was the mans wife.. We did not know or have any contact with them, but he told his friends, he was going to hurt me, because my husband had stolen his wife.. My boss at the time was a big time politician and he called the police and they took him in and called his psychiatrist, who readmitted him.. From that day on, we kept our address, telephone or even our real names out of the public. I was delighted when my husband decided the radio business was not what he really wanted.

[MaryPage]

I can remember being in grade school and wanting to be famous when I grew up.  You know, a princess or a movie star.  There were not many options to imagine in those days.  Many institutions of higher learning were closed to women, and in those that accepted them only teaching and nursing were available.  But the bottom line was that I imagined being famous.  Rich and powerful and world known and adored.
It is interesting to me to find myself, at 85, yearning to go back and be even more unknown than I was.  Very active in my community and in my children's schools as a young adult, I was well known in my own small pond, as it were, in those years.  I was not striving for personal fame and glory by then, but only to make a positive difference.  Now I realize that the best life of all is led quietly, unseen and unheard, without contention or controversy.  Anonymous.  I would choose, could I do it all over again, to be nobody at all.
Isn't it funny, how things evolve?  Steph, I cringe at what you went through.  Somehow now, with all the other stuff I have heard and read about, as well, I equate being in the public eye with being in danger.  I now choose hidden safety, thank you very much!

[Steph]

I can remember when my sons were in school.. I went through a stage of being Tim's wife, timmy and dan's Mom, Bridget and Dudleys ( corgi) owner and show person,Marilyn Maids Rider.. etc etc. I just wanted to be Stephanie, but that was really hard at that point. Now of course I am just Stephanie and that suits me fine.

[BarbStAubrey]

[nlhome]

Thank you, Barbara - this came up in another discussion I was having, so the information is helpful.

[Steph]

The chart was amazing, but I do note that taxes in the Nordic countries are truly remarkable. They have a wonderful system and a country that is clear of immigrant in large numbers.. It does help when all work and pay in.

[maryz]

Did you see this morning's Supreme Court decision - the latest against women?  Hobby Lobby doesn't have to provide contraception in their health care coverage.  I wonder if they do provide coverage for men's ED medication.