Author Topic: Women's Issues (Read 392151 times)

Steph · « **Reply #1600 on:** August 20, 2014, 08:56:34 AM »

My argument about bad president is somewhat personal. I had a son who was trying out for the Olympic and a really good prospect and then boom... no Olympics. I also felt that he did not support the people trapped in Iran. I also admit to not being a fan of his family except for his Mother who was truly a hero.

MaryPage · « **Reply #1601 on:** August 20, 2014, 09:47:41 AM »

Wasn't she JUST!

mabel1015j · « **Reply #1602 on:** August 20, 2014, 02:16:57 PM »

A woman reporter on Andrea Mitchell MSNBC show said "(Mo'ne) doesn't throw LIKE A GIRL!" REALLY!?! She's a GIRL! Obviously that's the way a GIRL THROWS! I can't believe a woman reporter would make such a stupid, sexist statement in 2014! It's the 21st century folks! OMG

Somedays i think i am still in the early 1960s. What happened to the consciousness we raised?

Jean

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #1603 on:** August 20, 2014, 03:06:43 PM »

when you get into the workforce unless a university or social service and even there, it all disappears in order to be accepted and get ahead. the more militant we have become the more chest thumping is the male - if not at home then among his and her peers.

maryz · « **Reply #1604 on:** August 20, 2014, 03:16:59 PM »

Jean, re Mo'Ne, the pitcher. The signs her fans hold at her ballgames read "Mo'Ne throws like a girl!" I love it!

mabel1015j · « **Reply #1605 on:** August 20, 2014, 05:34:03 PM »

Yes, me too, Mary!

Steph · « **Reply #1606 on:** August 21, 2014, 09:02:11 AM »

Yes, she is sweet and honest and gives full credit to her team mates. A genuine lady.. in many ways.

marjifay · « **Reply #1607 on:** August 21, 2014, 11:29:51 AM »

Mitchell probably meant she throws just as well as (or better than) a male pitcher, and to say she throws like a girl was an insult insinuating that girls do not throw as well as men.

Marj

MaryPage · « **Reply #1608 on:** August 21, 2014, 03:37:43 PM »

What the huge crowd of little girl fans mean when they hold up signs saying Mone throws "LIKE A GIRL" is to be totally ironic and mock the well known put down males of our species have used forever. They are saying "like a girl" now means to throw as well as Mone does, because guys, have you noticed, Mone is a girl and is throwing no hitters!

Steph · « **Reply #1609 on:** August 22, 2014, 08:52:57 AM »

So even though they lost and are out of the running, she has had a moment of fame and hopefully will keep on going.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #1610 on:** August 22, 2014, 12:44:40 PM »

Yes! Making "like a girl" a positive instead of the usual put-down! Exactly the way Af-Americans took procession of the word "black," or homosexuals took procession of the word "queer." But the reporter - not Mitchell, she would not have said it, i'm sure- said she "doesn't throw like a girl." Meaning less well than the boys, she throws really well - like a boy, was the implication.

I remember in the 80s that some group started using the word bitch as meaning beautiful, intelligent, tough, etc, unfortunately, altho it's used often today by both men and women, it's still used negatively and i don't like it. I like Joy (from The View, is her last name Beihart?) but she used the word in a very nasty way, supposedly as a joke. I never thought it was funny.

Here in the Philly area, Mo'ne is getting a lot of press and she says she wants to play basketball for UConn and then play in the WNBA. So we probably haven't heard the last of her. She's getting requests to be on talk shows.

Jean

maryz · « **Reply #1611 on:** August 22, 2014, 08:34:38 PM »

Jean, in the interview I heard, she said she wanted to be the first woman to play major league baseball or in the NBA. She'll be fun to watch, whatever!

mabel1015j · « **Reply #1612 on:** August 22, 2014, 11:22:49 PM »

Maybe by the time she's ready to ho to college she'll decide to look at the Lady Vols.

Steph · « **Reply #1613 on:** August 23, 2014, 09:04:22 AM »

Read an interesting article in(I think) the NY times on maturation rates and why a 13 year old girl can be fully grown( I know I was) and the 13 yo boy has not yet started, so this may makea difference to Mone

maryz · « **Reply #1614 on:** August 23, 2014, 09:12:48 AM »

Jean -

MaryPage · « **Reply #1615 on:** August 23, 2014, 10:39:26 AM »

I got my first period just precisely as I turned 13, and I never grew another inch in height after that year. By the time I reached 14, my periods were regular and I was my lifelong adult height, that is, until I reached my seventies and some osteoporosis shrank me down almost two inches!

Makes me sick to my stomach thinking of those African, Arabian and Asian girls being forced into marriage at thirteen! I had "become a woman" biologically, but I was a CHILD, for crying out loud!

Steph · « **Reply #1616 on:** August 24, 2014, 09:08:59 AM »

The point in the article is that the boys catch up and pass females as far as muscle, height, etc by late teens.. Having had two sons, I can attest that they were not even beginning the growth until late high school and college.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #1617 on:** August 28, 2014, 01:08:32 PM »

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/sen-kirsten-gillibrand-talks-weight-struggles-sexism-new-book-article-1.1919242

This is absolutely unbelievable! In 2014! These male senators have been sitting in committee hearings about sexual harassment in the military and on college campuses and some of them were there in 1991 for the Anita Hill hearings and they obviously heard and learned NOTHING!

One guy TOUCHED her stomach! Women's bodies are there for the touching? And the comments!?! OMG!

I hope the women of congress gang up on guys who behave so badly and take them to task, but i have a feeling that there is some kind rule of old boy network in the Senate of not attacking your colleagues. However, since a Senator felt it was o k to call the president a liar on television at the State of the Union speech that rule should be dead.

Of course, HER comment of "I think his comments were sweet, even if ..... an idiot" REALLY!?! That's the reason this bad behavior continues. We are so pleased to have male attention and compliments that we can't correct them, and so we let them get away with this crap. And Harry Reed calling her "hot"! A professional colleague!?! Men have sex on the brain so often they can't discern when it is and is not appropriate.

This is so appalling to me.

Jean

MaryPage · « **Reply #1618 on:** August 29, 2014, 08:02:15 AM »

I came in here this morning to talk about the Gillibrand thing, and find you have beaten me to it. I heard about it on MSNBC last night.

None of it surprises me. And no, the vast majority just don't get it. After what happened to Anita Hill, and considering the fact that since 1991 there have been books which PROVED she was telling the truth, and yet there has been no public acknowledgment of that fact, there have been no headlines exonerating her. I remember one book in particular, though I do not now remember the author or authors or the title, which, in setting out to write the book, the purpose was to prove she LIED, because the author or authors started out believing she had lied. And Whoa! They discovered she had been telling the truth and wound up writing a book which said so!

I had to work almost all of my life. And I can tell you that sexism and sexual harassment are not only rampant out there, and the number of men who do this is not only staggering, but the WHO are staggering as well! They are your neighbors husbands, almost every man in a given business or community group, white collar, blue collar, professionals, leaders. They should know better, but I really do believe that when the blood supply rushes to the penis, it turns off in the brain. The chances they tried to take with me were breathtaking to me! I remember one well to do community leader whose newspaper I worked for. He wanted to show off the brand new subdivision he had developed, and took me to see his just opened model homes. This was in the sixties. Then he tried seriously and physically to seduce me in one of the bedrooms! I am serious, I had to FIGHT him off! Men had a mindset that if you worked, you were eager for sexual exploitation! Or something like.

Anita Hill told the truth. Gillibrand is telling it. Nothing will EVER change unless or until ALL women fess up and organize to insist upon change.

Ain't going to happen!

Steph · « **Reply #1619 on:** August 29, 2014, 09:14:08 AM »

I am sorry,,, Gillibrand needs to name names. We need to know how many pigs are there and how to get rid of anyone with that sort of mind set.. We learned nothing from Anita and we should have. Clarence Thomas is not fit to a supreme court justice and never has been, but he is there for life and that is so wrong.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #1620 on:** August 29, 2014, 11:24:45 AM »

Do you get the feeling it is like we are all doomed to be Sisyphus with the same issues over and over and over and over again with the hill becoming steeper each time rather than flatter

MaryPage · « **Reply #1621 on:** August 29, 2014, 11:41:25 AM »

mabel1015j · « **Reply #1622 on:** August 29, 2014, 12:12:42 PM »

Steph - i agree there needs to be name-stating. But maybe it needs to be done by a Woodward-and-Bernstein-type investigative reporting. Gillibrand may not be able to do it and still be able to do her job. I'm sure there are more then enough stories to fill a book.

Yes, Barb, it seems we just keep pushing that boulder up the hill - or actually several boulders - sexual harassment, voting rights, sexism, equal pay, etc.

Here is another one - the way women are perceived in performance appraisals........

http://www.fastcompany.com/3034895/strong-female-lead/the-one-word-men-never-see-in-their-performance-reviews

Jean

MaryPage · « **Reply #1623 on:** August 29, 2014, 03:00:31 PM »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11057647/Rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-1400-children-exploited-by-Asian-gangs-while-authorities-turned-a-blind-eye.html

Steph · « **Reply #1624 on:** August 30, 2014, 09:30:02 AM »

When you think of it, it is such a very small thing that most women want. Just to be perceived and treated as equals..To vote, to compete fairly for jobs. Why oh why is it so hard for men to understand.

MaryPage · « **Reply #1625 on:** August 30, 2014, 10:09:47 AM »

The close to perfect man who was my third husband understood that completely, and there are many who do. But those many are just a drop in the sea, as it were: the sea of men. Males have a domineering gene in them which cannot be turned off. They are born to swagger about and be the cock in the henyard. They rather desperately need women to dominate! And they justify their treatment of us by rationalizing we are a much weaker subspecies created only for the purpose of carrying their young and being their personal servants. Even if they do not consciously THINK these things, this is the all pervasive feeling within them, and this feeling is bolstered and fortified by their packs of fellow males. The lower on the totem pole of male rank they are in their daily lives, the more they require subservient women in their lives to give them a sense of worth.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #1626 on:** August 30, 2014, 04:18:02 PM »

Marypage I wonder if it feel rather than are lower on the totem pole because most of us were shocked to learn of the battered women trying to be believed and asking for help to escape form the powerful leaders of our community in addition to the well paid CEO types of the national corporations with campuses here in Austin. The biggest shock was the second greatest number of women who fall in that category of no one to tell are the wives of ministers - the first being the wives of police officers.

25 years ago it used to be the wives of IBMers but their company changed seldom uprooting families so that the women lost their support systems and only had others from their last location to feel an intimacy with and of course saying anything to them meant the family would loose as the husband would be passed over for promotion.

But trying to whisk to safety the minister's wives is really a challenge and with today's technology oh my the tracking these controlling men have utilized reminds me of reading a CIA novel.

For many men in the upper echelons of society their sexual prowess was the measure of his ability to lead - if you go back into the movie archives of the 50s it was a rampant theme especially in the more frank movies coming out of Italy and France - this appears to be an underground characteristic that many men use to measure each other. That is why the issue surrounding birth control is really about their inability to control the sperm and their only way to cope is to make less the ones who symbolize the control of that sperm. Their sperm appears to be for many men their power source. The older sexual man is still honored among men - thus Viagra.

MaryPage · « **Reply #1627 on:** August 30, 2014, 06:00:34 PM »

You have a point, Barbara, but I state it that way because an accumulation of news stories about cases from all around the world over my lifetime leads me to believe it is the lower ranks of men who are the most overtly violent. In my own experience, I find the more "liberal" minded men tend to be college graduates who are filling the higher rank jobs. But then again, most of these marry college educated women, and do not pick up "trophy" wives. Why in hell being against women's right to be equal with men is considered being "conservative," I will never figure out, but this is, as you well know, the case, just as not being bigoted against women, people of color, and other types of designation grouping people is called being "liberal." When I was ten or twelve, if I had been asked, I would have immediately responded with the answer that the latter was being "Christian." Now I cannot, because so many Christians in our beloved nation are exhibiting the most ghastly bigotry of all!

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #1628 on:** August 30, 2014, 08:28:34 PM »

One of the news sites I get had an article yesterday about how more Christians who attend regular service are addicted to Porn than any other group - the article had a thesis about quilt being the culprit - the need to feel quilt that was similar to the quilt expected when caught as a child for anything that was bad behavior - as to collage educated - no way - look at the rape that is finally being admitted as a problem on College Campuses and look at all those so called business parties especially the notorious Christmas party and the many secretaries hired for their looks and availability. At one time I too thought the more educated the less gross - learned it is a fantasy.

MaryPage · « **Reply #1629 on:** August 31, 2014, 08:39:32 AM »

Well, Barbara, you may be right, but I have read over and over again (The Washington Post, The New York Times, etc.) that the vast majority of the college assaults take place with the athletes and frat boys, and they represent a minority of the actual graduates. It seems to be an important (to them) part of their college life CULTURE!

So I still see more good sense and civilized behavior and acceptance of the equality of people of our gender amongst the well educated than among the undereducated.

Here, at the Naval Academy, for instance, where the vast majority of the female midshipmen HAVE been accosted at one time or another during their college years here, over and over and over again the bad behavior has come from the athletic stars. That has been made explicit in the front page stories in our local newspaper, The Capital.

Our new Superintendant promises to bring an end to this abuse. I wish. I hope. But we have heard that before.

Steph · « **Reply #1630 on:** August 31, 2014, 09:32:30 AM »

Underground networks for abused women used to be easier, but the internet has changed that.. also the age progression computer programs for children.. I know it is useful for kidnapping, etc but I remember my friend who ran with her four daughters,, He never found them and she did not come out from cover until the youngest was 18,, I suspect nowadays she would not have been able to hide that long.

MaryPage · « **Reply #1631 on:** August 31, 2014, 11:43:46 AM »

I suspect you are right. I would probably have never thought of that aspect at all, but your mentioning it makes me follow the thread in my mind and see the implications.

Chuck Todd, who, like Tim Russert is a "force of nature" type, is the new host on Meet The Press. I liked David Gregory a lot, I mean, what is NOT to like about David Gregory. But Gregory is a nice guy, and not a force of nature personality. I do believe Tim Russert groomed Chuck Todd for this very job, and I applaude his choice. Woo Hoo! Hold on tight, the awesome roller coaster ride begins next Sunday morning!

Steph · « **Reply #1632 on:** September 01, 2014, 09:00:52 AM »

I am a big David Gregory Fan, so not sure about Chuck.

MaryPage · « **Reply #1633 on:** September 01, 2014, 11:39:48 AM »

Chuck Todd thinks the same way I do, and he (unlike me) appears to possess a photographic type memory that can instantly recite every race in every state in the union: names of candidates and all of their credentials. He remembers EVERYthing! Just blows me away. Russert had a strong instinct for and knowledge of the political game, but Todd beats him with his encyclopedic knowledge.

Steph · « **Reply #1634 on:** September 02, 2014, 07:58:04 AM »

ah now I know who you mean. Yes, he is remarkable with the memory thing..

kidsal · « **Reply #1635 on:** September 03, 2014, 03:20:31 AM »

Am pleased that Chuck Todd will be host of Meet the Press -- perhaps will bring in new guests -- not the same folks with the same talking points. Will miss him in the morning (I record as not up that early). Do enjoy Jose Diaz-Belart -- new perspective.

mogamom · « **Reply #1636 on:** September 03, 2014, 11:05:16 AM »

About the Gillibrand thing...when Reid called her 'hot', she was flattered; actually (quietly, of course) seemed to feed her campaign with that notion; 'the hottest senator'. How can she then be 'champion' of women and their defender against unwanted/inappropriate sexual advances?

mabel1015j · « **Reply #1637 on:** September 03, 2014, 12:10:36 PM »

I also like Chuck Todd. He did a very nice "goodby" at MSNBC, putting on screen the names and titles of everybody who worked on the show and mentioning them himself.

There is a positive response being planned for women's rights on Constitution Day......

http://www.wearewoman.us

On the other hand, from the New Yorker:

In February, Mary Beard, a classics professor at the University of Cambridge, gave a lecture at the British Museum titled “Oh Do Shut Up Dear!” With amiable indignation, she explored the many ways that men have silenced outspoken women since the days of the ancients. - See more at: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/156732#sthash.1AXoJve3.dpuf

Yes, mogomom, those old habits of being flattered by any male attention are very hard to break, and easy to slip back into. I'm surprised she said that in her book.........of course, i don't know how she spoke of it in her book, did she go on to acknowledge that that was not a good response? (Rhetorical question

Jean

MaryPage · « **Reply #1638 on:** September 03, 2014, 03:48:47 PM »

It is most often women who compliment one another, and we are used to this and never give it a thought, although we appreciate such friendly comments.

But we are conditioned to being thought less of than are the boys from a very early age. Mothers have been as guilty of projecting this attitude as fathers, as most women yearn to prove themselves, albeit subconsciously, by producing a son for their mates.

So when we get a compliment from a male, regardless of age or rank or relationship, we do tend to remember it clearly, while forgetting the many, many more compliments from those of our own gender.

Men tend to be rather clumsy with words of approval, and even when they possess the very best of intentions their compliments tend to come from the very base of their minds, where they view all women with the exception (most of the time) of their own mothers, sisters and daughters as sexual objects.

So the need to change thinking patterns is most definitely in the men's court, as it were. They need to put permanent stoppers in their way of regarding females and begin to grant us first and foremost equality as human beings.

Our female friends do not tell us we are "hot." Once the men stop doing so, we will be just as receptive to our male colleagues telling us they think the dress we have on is pretty as we do when the gal at the next desk does so.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #1639 on:** September 03, 2014, 04:26:10 PM »

Once the men stop doing so, we will be just as receptive to our male colleagues telling us they think the dress we have on is pretty as we do when the gal at the next desk does so.

What an optimist you are MaryPage! LOL

I don't think men are going to stop thinking of us as hot, or not, and that's probably a good thing for species generation.

. But i wish they could control their impulses to comment (let alone TOUCH) about us in a sexual context when they are strangers or colleagues to us. Some of them have a difficult time understanding context. Of course, as long as it's considered not only acceptable, but almost required as part of the ole boys network, or that boys will be boys, it will not change.

I worked for Dept of Army and know from experience that if a greater goal is in danger, almost every man can have implulse control. When we had Chiefs of Staff, or Commanders, who said "women will be respected in every way and sexual harassment will not be tolerated," it happened. When we had senior officers or civilian managers who would give a wink and a nudge about sexist behavior, it happened. And when women in power called out misbehavior, it stopped, at least around her.

I was the advisor to the Command and to the employees on sexual harassment cases, so i had the Commander's authority behind me to call out such behavior. I'm sure there was much discussion behind my back, but many women and some men appreciated it. And it was often kind of fun to jerk some guy's chain. They nearly always submitted to the reasonableness of my being right.

Of course, the military men were most quick to follow those orders, some civilian men didn't hop to as quickly.

By the way, i had almost as much educating to do with some women as with some men. Some women liked playing the flirty, poor me, i'm so helpless, you're the big strong man role. I also had to deal with a situation in the human resources dept where a young man -who was one of two in the dept- was being harassed by some of the women. I also had to educate some women that "you do not have to put up with behavior toward you that is embarrassing, or intimidating, or obnoxious". We have grown up with it so much that we often feel there is no recourse - and we may not get supported by anyone - female or male - if we speak up. That seems to be changing and as more women like Gillibrand speak up and get the kind of support she has gotten in most of the media, it should get better.............. I can't even imagine what Rush is saying - don't want to.

Jean

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Author Topic: Women's Issues (Read 392151 times)