Author Topic: Women's Issues  (Read 392137 times)

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1720 on: November 01, 2014, 11:56:36 AM »
You missed my point entirely, Megamom.  In the article you cite, which appeared in The New York Post, words are very carefully chosen so as to not be lying, but to fix into people's head the idea that the CDC had to be dragged kicking and screaming into "admitting," (the Post's chosen word of clever propaganda) that droplets from sneezing could carry Ebola.  And the FACT is that the CDC never, ever said otherwise!  The Post does not say that the CDC said otherwise, either;  it IMPLYS that, so as to make every possible attempt to make the CDC look bad.
The New York Post is a well known sensationalist tabloid paper published by a foreign owner, Rupert Murdoch, who loves nothing so much as bringing down governments, by hook or by crook.  His days in court have proved beyond reasonable doubt the "by crook" part.

This is not a matter of "reading all sides" of a subject.  It is not a matter of differing opinions, though I must say that among the experts regarding Ebola there only seems to be ONE OPINION as to what it is and what it does.  Unless one is determined there MUST be another opinion as to what this virus is and does, or another opinion as to what we are being told.  But considering the contents of the SEVEN (7) books I have personally read about Ebola, and carefully listening to and reading up on the current news bulletins from authorized persons, it seems to me there has been and is no lack of full information given our public.  The real facts are all out there for every single one of us to hear and see, and the New York Post is a very negative rabble rousing trouble maker of the sickest kind, and trying their utmost to weaken the United States of America. 

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1721 on: November 01, 2014, 12:07:50 PM »
Mogamom do you understand that you have a greater fear of walking out your front door and being hit by lightening than you do have having any droplets from Ebola come near you much less get the disease or die from the disease. Approximately 50 people die every year in this nation from a lightening strike.

The outside chance of any of us or anyone in our town making contact with Ebola is simply political rhetoric to stir up fear - if we are going to make a difference it will not come out of fear - fear freezes action - the amount of courage it takes to take charge when fear is the motivator is simply to act for one specific action towards protection of what you already know or have. People living in fear with its accompanying anxiety do not create or develop new anything from, lines of thinking to new actions that bring new results or new products much less joy and love.

We are meant to develop our character that is the result of developing our virtues and fear is not in the list of virtues, nor is anxiety much less, pass along to others material that can tap into unnecessary caution which is a tactic to keep us anxious.

It has been a long time since we were in grade school where we learned all about virtues and how they are the cornerstone of our life and how we can benefit the life of others by growing our virtues - here is a link to a nice list of those virtues - it is a good reminder since we are all trying to encourage a better life that will mean being creative and not hanging onto the fears that are part of the political tool bag these days. - http://www.virtuescience.com/virtuelist.html
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1722 on: November 01, 2014, 01:37:06 PM »
I was playing around surfing the web a little bit ago and I clicked on granddaughter Jenny's worksite website for KCUR and while reading a number of articles offered ran into this take off on Casey At The Bat that we all know so well.  It was penned by a local who is a former poet laureate of these United States:

"Right here in this favorite land the sun is shining bright,
A band is playing and some hearts are even light;
Men and women are cheering, and children are not dreary,
There is some joy in Kansas City - the Royals made the Series"

nlhome

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1723 on: November 01, 2014, 06:34:53 PM »
Just another comment on some of the articles, including the voting articles - there were a lot of "coulds" and "might haves" and other terms that were inconclusive and in some cases definitely misleading. The same with numbers and percents.

Read this:  "Using an enormous database of voters nationwide (32,800 from 2008, and 55,400 in 2012), the authors find that about one-quarter of the non-citizens who participated in the survey were registered to vote."

And then tell me, how many readers jumped to the conclusion that one-quarter of the database of voters were non-citizens?  That particular article didn't report on the number of non-citizens in the survey, so it could have been 10, 100, 1000....nor does it report on how many actually voted.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1724 on: November 01, 2014, 08:02:27 PM »
Oh lordy nlhome that is outragious to say - just trying to get those who are Latinos that are legal to vote is a trick - the lowest turnout is from the area of town where the Mexican population mostly lives - that is an outrageous statement -

Illegals have no clue how or what to vote for and they CERTAINLY would NOT come within a mile of any official site for fear of being picked up and sent back across the border -

Illegals do not go to hospitals or call the police for domestic violence or any other kind of violence - even legal immigrants will not report crimes - I have worked with Asians who have even been raped but will not report it for fear of the police -

So who ever is writting this stuff you are reading is trying to scare folks in a cruel and inhuman way - not only will Latinos not go for medical care for fear of being picked up or if legal, having to prove themselves, they prefer to use a Curanderismo

No way would any illegal risk going to a precinct voting center - they have no clue what precinct they are in and even if they are fluent enough speaking English, they do not know the language we take for granted that are the titles for governmental positions much less the language required to enter a voting book and fill out a voting form computerized or paper. The checks and balances just to vote are so stringent no one that is not registered could get past the voting judge without filling out paper work that makes a new voter or one who moved recently blanch.

Golly nlhome you need to get out more often and stop depending on this junk you are reading that is only meant to mislead you and scare you. Go volunteer to work the polls and learn who votes and the incredible process in order to vote. We may require two forms of ID but even if those states that use one form the checks to make sure you live where  you say  you live and are registered and you have either a registration card or a city utility bill in your name and recorded address or a drivers license would eliminate anyone who is still brave enough to risk running the gauntlet, knowing enough about how to vote and who the candidates are to get away with an illegal vote.

nlhome you need to be busy so you do not spend time on these crazy web sites feeding you this trash and making you believe it is true - go take a class at your local community collage or join a group that does things or start to knit or sew or garden or something - just pull some books down and start a reading challenge like all the books about presidents or even all the books about politics or newspaper reporting - something to get yourself busy rather than finding this stuff that is meant to scare you and then sharing it as if it were true.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1725 on: November 01, 2014, 10:22:33 PM »
ER, uh, Barbara, I got the distinct impression that Nlhome does not believe in those articles.  I may be mistaken, but my impression is that she is pointing out the weakness of their claims.

I spent some years as a poll worker, a Judge of Elections.  I am too old now to work the 19 hour day necessary, but I do have total recall of how it all works, and I will tell ANYONE, as will any poll workers, that NO ILLEGALS vote.  It is an out and out lie that they do.  In order for that to occur,  ALL of the poll workers and volunteer watchers from EVERY political party would have to be in on it; which is an obvious impossibility. 

Immigrants who are citizens vote.  We are ALL descended from immigrants.

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1726 on: November 01, 2014, 10:28:16 PM »
Thanks, MaryPage.  I didn't think those remarks were directed at nlhome either.

" But considering the contents of the SEVEN (7) books I have personally read about Ebola." 

What caused you to become so interested in this disease?  Could you recommend a book?  I just got info from the CDC website, and the article I mentioned. 

Early detection is of primary importance (CDC site: Diagnosing Ebola in an person who has been infected for only a few days is difficult, because the early symptoms, such as fever, are nonspecific to Ebola infection and are seen often in patients with more commonly occurring diseases, such as malaria and typhoid fever),  and the symptoms do mimic influenza (CDC site: It is usually not possible to determine whether a patient has seasonal influenza or Ebola infection based on symptoms alone. However, there are tests to detect seasonal influenza and Ebola infection).

Both nurses presented with low-grade fevers and tested positive (CDC site:  "Two healthcare workers (the second and third U.S. confirmed Ebola cases) who provided care for the index patient have tested positive for Ebola. Both presented with low-grade fever and were isolated at Texas Presbyterian Hospital upon reporting symptoms.").

I'm not anxious at all - certainly not fearful; simply concerned.  I think people associate 'sneezing'  with it being air-born- but it's really a droplet. I certainly didn't think the CDC was hiding anything (what possible reason would they have for that?) - I just had not considered droplets, such as someone on a plane, etc. might be close enough to encounter.  It made sense then that they identified all the passengers of both planes involved.  The nurse in Main going for a bike ride, or driving her own car, doesn't sound to be a problem.  But it is just common sense to stay out of public places for the 21 days, yes? 

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1727 on: November 01, 2014, 11:38:22 PM »
Really sorry nlhome if I misunderstood your post - I am hearing such crazy things here of late so that I did think you were believing this outrageous statement - if you are sharing what you are reading feeling as outrageous over the claim I truly am sorry for mis-understanding the link - this elections and the issues of the day are bringing out so many duzies I am reeling seeing how folks are actually believing this stuff that I know if they used their head they would realize how preposterous are these reports It has become that we can hardly believe the news any longer it is so filled with wild statements.

Preparing for my surgery on Monday the nurse called yesterday and had to ask if I knew anyone who had recently returned from Africa - not Guinea or Liberia or Sierra Leon or Nigeria or Senegal or even West Africa, but of Africa - like saying the man who died in Dallas was from North America, which includes Canada and Mexico - can you believe a whole continent is in question, and not if I visited with or met someone who recently returned but, if I knew anyone from Africa - this is a hospital question by law - unbelievable.

I did not to go into it but I do know several folks from Africa, one of which, a young collage student who visited her father the summer before last and who I have not had a face to face with since last Christmas - of course part of the questioning about this exaggerated land mass is that most do not know one nation from another on the continent of Africa plus, they want to be sure they are protecting themselves from any law suit. Stupidity and lawyers will end up driving us all to a state of frozen inertia as we are required to report our history of  contacts in parts of the world so far removed from the few poor nations subjected to this disease - I could even understand if they had asked if I had visited Dallas recently but did I know anyone from Africa - not did I know someone who had recently returned from Africa but did I know anyone from Africa - or even did I meet with anyone who flew in a plane recently - I am still shaking my head at such an inane question.  
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1728 on: November 02, 2014, 09:10:27 AM »
Barb, but I suspect politically correct question.That way they could sneak up on the answer. I will say however that at a luncheon yesterday, I sat at a table and one of the women has a granddaughter who was going off on a mission for her church to Nigeria..The grandmother was so distressed and the whole table agreed, that this is plain foolishness and the church should know better. Nothing to do with Ebola, but everything  to do with villages in remote areas. I agree the risk is way too great.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1729 on: November 02, 2014, 09:16:53 AM »
Barb, sorry to hear about your upcoming surgery. I hope all goes well, and you can report back to us quickly. 
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

nlhome

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1730 on: November 02, 2014, 09:33:58 AM »
Barb, you did misconstrue. What I was pointing out is how numbers and words can be used to mislead and that we need to be discerning readers. That article was one I happened across on the Yahoo site, and comments were so hateful that I went back and reread it to see what I missed (I hadn't).

I agree that most immigrants are reluctant to get involved with government at all, at least in my area. I volunteer at a health facility that helps the uninsured, citizens and non-citizens. From what I understand, most of the non-citizens even shop at the local big box store after 10 p.m., to avoid people.

What I think is sad is those who have been here for many years without documentation, hard-working people who are hired by employers who take advantage of them. So much anger at those who come here illegally - so little anger at those who hire them illegally.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1731 on: November 02, 2014, 12:21:12 PM »
MegaMom, the most up front reason I developed an interest in Ebola was that it was quite literally in my backyard the first time it ever showed up here in the States!
Now, if that is not enough to get a body interested, I don't know what is!
But still, many, many of my neighbors, let alone the rest of the nation, remained unmoved and uninterested.
You see, it was back in the late eighties, and monkeys brought Ebola to a lab in Reston, Virginia.  I lived about 15 minutes away, and quite, quite frequently went to Reston.  Oh My!
Well, we did not know about it right away.  It was top, I mean TOP, secret until they contained it.  You can read all about it in THE HOT ZONE by Richard Preston.  I must warn you, every word of it is TRUE, and what is more, the one and only Stephen King pronounced it the scariest book he had ever read.
That being said, I and my more concerned fellow citizens rushed to buy the book, because prior to it some news stories did appear in the press, and we were anxious to get the full story.  Well, the real thing grabbed my full attention and strong streak of curiosity, and I then got hold of every book and article I could.  I then branched out from viruses to include bacteria and fungi.  Hey, did you know they outnumber us as a species by a number so high as to be beyond ridiculous?  And did you know that just ONE FUNGUS stretches out under many, many counties in Oregon?  And there are many others like it in this world.
http://www.extremescience.com/biggest-living-thing.htm

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1732 on: November 02, 2014, 12:36:13 PM »
OH dear again, nlhome I am sorry I jumped to conclusions reading your post - sounds like you do have a handle on the patterns of living carried out by most undocumented - as to the issue of undocumented that is a ball of knots -

One issue is since the border is now so tight it is keeping many an undocumented here that traditionally they only came for a year or two - always went back for the holidays to bring the money earned back and if they needed more they returned - for a couple of hundred years when something families were purchasing or a community was building, they at first left these villages, that take a day to walk out of and found employment in towns mostly in northern Mexico. Gradually they learned there was more work available in the US that paid better so they did not have to be away from their families as long - so that became the pattern. These villages HAVE NO MONEY - it is as if the village is one big family -

There is no electricity, water is the nearby stream, they grow all their food, and if they need to buy a cow to increase the small herd they then need money or if they want to buy a piece of land or the community wants to build a place for kids to learn - the Mexican government does require collage students who are education majors to teach for a year in small communities that children from other nearby villages walk over an hour to attend classes. There is money needed to build a school room and the student/teacher lives with a local family. Those that did come to the US were the very ones who wanted their children to be educated to at least read.

They never could send their earnings back home because the money would be taken at the post office and it was often a trick getting home without being robbed but this system had someone coming here, doing work that we are not educated our kids to do anylonger and then they went back with maybe 3 or 4 times in the life each time coming here for two or maybe three years. Now, they leave behind their family and end up making a new family here because they cannot get back without a great deal of expense and risk trying to return. Young hard working men do not live as bachelors for 2 or 3 years - before there were girls who are still at the bars but the guys are stuck here and a weekly night out does not satisfy a guy used to a home-life.

The families left behind have no idea if the one who was seeking work in the US is alive or dead - most of these villages and tucked away homes have no phone service - they leave messages for each other by forming rocks in certain patterns on the side of these dirt roads much like the rock formations we all learned from the Scout handbook.

It has been 14 years now since last I was down but there are some who, in my case a guy from Lubbock sets up a hiking experience and part of the hike is we stop in a sizable town before to buy lots of beans and rice and pack a burro with our purchase and as we find a family where the small plot of corn and several young children are living with a mom we leave her bags of rice and beans - some live in caves that their family have lived in for hundreds of years, others in thatch roofed huts with a small fire contently going in the corner regardless it is the middle of summer as the source of light and for cooking - and so by trapping the one who came here for temporary work we are creating greater poverty, breaking up families which is creating greater need so that now more and more use their only escape once they are in their late teens and they too come adding to a greater number of undocumented full time immigrants living and working in the U.S.

The other side also is that we have taken away from our economy all the low priced crops - a farmer cannot grow things like onions or radishes without cheap labor so all those crops the Mexican farmhands learned how it is done because they were the labor and when the border became an issue they simply took their knowledge with them and now all those inexpensive crops are gown and shipped form Mexico adding to our cost because now there is shipping added to the produce - this has been the story of much of our fruit as well and seasonal flowers like all the now town after town of vacant greenhouses in northeast Texas that grew poinsettias - no inexpensive labor so they were abandoned and the western slopes of the Rockies in Colorado was where our seeds were grown. Again, no labor and those farmers gave up trying to inform the nation of what was happening so now it is a special catalog for a few small places that still sells natural seeds - it left the door wide open for Monsanto so that even our seed packets in the garden centers are Monsanto genetically modified seeds.

All I know is I do not want to be paying high property tax, as I do for schools tax to educate kids to plant onions, or even roof buildings in the high summer heat - our students may not all go on to college but I expect the high taxes coming from my pocket is providing an education for them to do more than basic field work or the grunt work required by a community to function and so, temporary labor to me takes care of that. Plus our kids are no longer being trained even at home how to do that kind of labor nor do we want them to be maids or part of the road crew as their adult job much less pay with tax dollars how to do those jobs.

Fences may fence out but in the process they fence in so that now we have a bulging immigration issue with more kids born here from undocumented workers and that population will continue to grow where as before, fewer families were created here in the U.S.

We cannot do anything now about the policies that brought us to this point - but I cannot see the benefit of splitting up families and then dealing with adults down the line who were traumatized as kids when one of their parents were taken. If the fence on the border was working I could see that as a solution but it is not working except as a deterrent to those who would periodically and yes, every Christmas return home.

As to the women left behind - her and her children's entire diet is dependent on that field of corn she grows with no running water therefore, she scoops up pails of water from the stream and carries them up to water the plants - she is taking care of kids, needing energy to cook and wash and take care of a house, all on her own with no electricity and no way to travel to a town that is at least 5 to more often over 10 miles away. This is not a random story but a typical story of nearly all rural Mexico. Then I look at my life sheesh...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1733 on: November 02, 2014, 12:37:51 PM »
So I read and read and read, and recently have passed most of my books and old (yellowed and fragile) newspaper clippings on to the one of my 13 granddaughters who has a masters in Biology and works to try to clean up the Chesapeake Bay (the waters of which are now 70% "dead").  Naturally, she is the one with knowledge and interest.
I have not purchased and read any of the new books on the subject, but I have held on to two old ones that I am rereading before passing them on to Melissa.  One is titled VIRUS HUNTER and is authored by C.J. Peters, who was at the time Chief of Special Pathogens at the Centers for Disease Control.  He writes of THIRTY YEARS of battling hot viruses around the world.  The other is a quite thick book, but well worth the reading.  It is THE COMING PLAGUE by Laurie Garrett.  Women who are caring daughters, wives, mothers and caretakers can learn a lot about what needs to be done to protect their families from reading this book.
Both books are full of Ebola information.
Other reasons I muse upon in wondering, due to your question, why I had such deep fascination early on are (1) my most basic passion is History, and in getting it right, and (2) I have always felt a strong, even overwhelming interest in the miniature.  Nanotechnology both turns me on and scares me half to death.  Quarks (and their names) are beyond amazing.  How this universe is put together, and the fact that the very smallest objects in existence are what EVERYthing is made up of is information that has me in its thrall.  As a tiny child, I coveted the tiny things:  miniature cookware and pretend silver tea sets.  As an adult, I beelined to museums all over Great Britain that held famous doll houses once owned by the impossibly rich.
What can I say?  Yes, viruses, fungi and bacteria really grab me, and I want to know all I can as a lay person.  I am most definitely NOT a Scientist.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1734 on: November 03, 2014, 12:17:41 AM »
There is an absolutely top-notch article about the Ebola virus citing everything we need to know about it and about the CDC in regards to this threat to the public health in the November 3 issue of TIME magazine.  The cover of this magazine sports a large mallet about to come down upon an apple.  The wonderful article is entitled "12 Answers To Ebola's Hard Questions and is written by a whole slew of different people.  I highly recommend this article, as it truly does answer every question.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1735 on: November 03, 2014, 03:26:09 AM »
thanks MaryPage you sure know the history of Ebola and can find the best resources for us.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1736 on: November 03, 2014, 08:14:46 AM »
Reston,, did not realize you lived that close to the situation.. Wow.. Oh please let the election be over. Our TV's in Florida are one right after another. two Governors fighting over one spot and both of them,, not suited for the job.. Ugh.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

nlhome

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1737 on: November 03, 2014, 08:26:47 AM »
I agree, Steph, let the election be over. The more ads the candidates and their supporters/funders run, the less qualified any of them seem. Good thing I voted early - I can understand why many people don't vote - if we take those ads at face value, why bother?


marjifay

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1738 on: November 03, 2014, 11:43:28 AM »
What really irritated me about this election on the local level, is that my mailbox has been stuffed every day with huge posters making it really difficult to find my regular mail.  I got 4 of these posters in one day from the same candidate..  I told her supporter who came around asking for votes, that if this happened in the next election, I was going to take these dozens and dozens of her posters and deposit them on her front porch!

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

jane

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1739 on: November 03, 2014, 02:57:27 PM »
I'm looking forward to tomorrow and the end to the mailings, the endless telephone calls and survey calls and the back to back to back TV ads. 

Enough already!

jane, who already did "early voting"...ie, absentee ballot at the County Auditor's office.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1740 on: November 04, 2014, 06:17:11 AM »
In the October 20, 2014 issue of THE NEW YORKER the very first article in The Talk of The Town on page 29 is about the Fear Equation re Ebola and the history we have experienced as a nation regarding previous threats of infection.  The front cover of this magazine is of stacks and stacks and stacks of brown books.
This article reminds us of the SARS scare, the HIV hysteria, and hey, only back in 2009 we had the H1N1 flu;  remember that?  Sixty (60) MILLION Americans came down with that last, and more than TWELVE (12) THOUSAND of those died.  Each of these viruses is different from the other, but Ebola is A LOT harder to contract than these others.  We forget.  We forget so soon.  And we listen more to the voices of fright, who have absolutely no experience regarding the disease of the day, than we do to the experts handling the situation of the moment.
Money flows only with the public perception of matters;  an unfortunate and universal truth.  Here is a quote to ponder:  "We could have pushed the development of a synthetic Ebola vaccine a decade ago.  We had the skills, but we CHOSE not to pursue it.  Why?  Because we weren't the people getting sick."

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1741 on: November 04, 2014, 07:34:32 AM »
That is a sad and haunting statement. Now with the world they way it is and travel.. all diseases are universal and we need to concentrate on finding fixes for all, whether it is Africa, Asia Europe or North America..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1742 on: November 04, 2014, 07:51:22 AM »
Well, exactly!

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1743 on: November 04, 2014, 08:39:43 AM »
One of the absolutely terrifying viruses in this world started RIGHT HERE in these United States, and we forget that, too.  Hanta Virus.  Remember HANTA?  You are perfectly well one day and dead the next, with your lungs weighing a ton from the fluids that build up in there.  Started in the Four Corners area, in New Mexico.  Came from rodents.  Ordinary mice.  Check it out.

There is a most excellent Feature article in the October 27, 2014 issue of The New Yorker.  This one is entitled THE EBOLA WARS and is written by Richard Preston, who wrote THE HOT ZONE 20 years ago.  Can you tell I am catching up with my New Yorkers?

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1744 on: November 05, 2014, 07:55:37 AM »
I remember Hanta and it seems to have disappeared, although I think it may still be somewhat of a problem in parts of the cave area.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

marjifay

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1745 on: November 05, 2014, 11:10:24 AM »
Another killer right here in the U.S. is the flu virus.  It kills over 20,000 people each year.  At least this disease can be stopped be vaccination.  I had the first one, think it was called the Hong Kong flu, and it was awful, so I never neglect getting a flu shot.

Marj
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MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1746 on: November 05, 2014, 03:27:55 PM »
Yes, and we are in MUCH more danger from the West Nile virus than we are from Ebola.  Also, we have the Avian, or bird flu.  And then there is this new flu that is killing children.  Why in the WORLD we are going ape over Ebola, I have no idea.  But there was a letter to the editor of our local newspaper Monday night that I am surprised and alarmed that they printed, because it seems to me that kind of thinking is not only insane, but it is dangerous because of the people who would believe it.  The writer told everyone they should vote against the Democrats because Obama is to blame for bringing Ebola here and millions of us are due to die because he won't do anything about immigration, but the Republicans will stop everyone from coming here.

Can you believe it?  I am truly dumbfounded.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1747 on: November 05, 2014, 04:16:04 PM »
I am rereading VIRUS HUNTER, Thirty Years of Battling Hot Viruses Around The World by Dr. C.J. Peters, and was vastly amused, in a grim sort of way, at the following: in 1839 (yes, EIGHTEEN thirty-nine!) the surgeon general of the Texan army described the yellow fever outbreak in Galveston thusly:  "The efforts of citizens were paralyzed by the absurd denial of a few who feared their pecuniary interests would be damaged by a knowledge of the existence of yellow fever among us, aided by the gross ignorance of others, who in their pointless hostility to the name (mention) of yellow fever, declared the epidemic to be the Plague.  They were, however, most signally rebuked by this disease stamping almost every fatal case with its unequivocal seal of black (blood) vomit."

I had to stop and think about the fact that in 1839 there was no widespread communication whatsoever.  No television, no radio, no electricity, no telephone.  Only newspapers, magazines and word of mouth.  Now we have all of these wonderful devices and more, yet we are exhibiting the same degree of vast ignorance.  Don't you just LOVE the different way of writing, thinking and speaking the English language they used back then?

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1748 on: November 05, 2014, 09:05:18 PM »
What an absolutely fascinating discussion here!  MaryPage, what an incredible personal experience!  I certainly will look into the Time mag article.  I am interested in this disease as a nurse. 

I'm sorry for all the discomfort caused over the NY Post.  I've lived in NY my whole life and, of course, I know it is - at best - full of hyperbole.  You certainly do have to "tone it down" and ignore the exaggeration and inflammatory verbage, which is why I put it with the cdc site.  But my computer opens to MSN and they offered this Reuter article in which the book you recommended (THE HOT ZONE by Richard Preston) was mentioned:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-scientists-say-uncertainties-loom-about-ebolas-transmission-other-key-facts/ar-BBcPy9B?ocid=DELLDHP

It really discussed some of the issues brought up on the /cdc site; e.g. studies done have so few subjects that it is difficult to make generalizations.


But I think this is awesome news!  Imagine if HIV could be essentially eradicated! 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-scientists-say-uncertainties-loom-about-ebolas-transmission-other-key-facts/ar-BBcPy9B?ocid=DELLDHP


And I agree with you that there are many more diseases and conditions that deserve close attention.  The entervirus that has killed 4 children and paralyzed  about 400 others is one such disease.
 

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1749 on: November 06, 2014, 11:32:57 AM »
Megamom, are you aware that you gave us the same site twice, rather than giving us two sites?

Now, again I find fault with this type of reporting, and I will lay out my argument.  First, let me explain that reporting is a field I am very familiar with, as I started out my early career as a Journalist and left that field for another in order to best meet the needs of my growing family.  My second husband (34 years of marriage until he died) was a professional Journalist.  It is a world I feel I belong in and have every innate gut feeling for, albeit I wound up retiring from Accounting.  My soul?  In my soul I am a History teacher.

Alright;  this last article:  the writer is trying hard to pen a provocative article that will get people to talking and engender lots of feedback and make the editors happy and bring about pay raises and promotions and give the reporter A NAME.  So once again, the effort is to implant doubts about the scientific/medical community and its knowledge of and ability to deal with the implicit and possibly unbelievably ghastly outcome of a surging pandemic that will kill millions upon millions of people.  "Uncertainties" is the featured word.  

Now, this is YOUR world of expertise they are describing.  And you know, as I know, that no scientist in his or her right mind is going to answer ANY reporters questions with absolutes, because Science does not deal in absolutes.  We are taught everything that Science has discovered THUS FAR, and we can depend upon almost every bit of this carefully garnered information.  But Scientists know right up front that a lot of things change OVER TIME, and that we are always learning new things.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1750 on: November 06, 2014, 11:46:39 AM »
For instance, when I was taking 7th and 8th grade Science, it was an absolute that the answer on any examination to the question:  "What is the smallest particle of matter which cannot be divided into smaller pieces" (or a similarly worded question) was:  TA DA!  THE ATOM!

You pass, Missy!

But in the summertime between my 10th and my 11th year of school, that answer became totally wrong and the World was drastically changed.  Was this due to Science being negligent in some manner?  Absolutely not.  Even Einstein thought it COULD NOT be done!  Yet Scientists here in the U.S. believed there was a chance this was not the right answer, and they studied the matter and gave us the Atom Bomb and ended World War II.

That is the way Science goes:  always seeking more and better answers;  always trying its very, very best to know How things work.  And they do this, they ALL do this, for the betterment of mankind, and not for the purpose of making a name for themselves or getting a raise.  They DO compete rather desperately for the small supply of funds dedicated to the furtherance of such knowledge.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1751 on: November 06, 2014, 11:59:15 AM »
If you read the books written about the history of viruses as discovered by the medical experts from the very beginning, you will find some things that are quite familiar and others that are brand new and guaranteed to give you a tremendous number of brand new thoughts and considerations.  One of the things most familiar to all of us who have had the advantage of free public High Schools here in the States is the story of the Plague killing off from a third to a half of the citizens of our mother countries in Europe, and how it was eventually traced to rats that came off of ships and carried fleas that carried the virus.  But the frightened people put it down to all manner of superstitious nonsense, and would not heed, for the most part, the advice given by the experts of those days that the sick be quarantined from the rest of the populace!  Millions, literally, died because their BELIEFS trumped the Scientists.  Scientists were then, as they are still in many minds, Bogey Men who made ridiculous claims to knowing impossible facts and should be run out of town, if not outright killed.

Well, these types of thought are still all pervasive.  Read the books, and find out what sort of road blocks to progress are still being thrown up.  Religious traditions are the worst!  All those who die from Ebola, for instance, really should, in the name of Public Health, be cremated.  But people actually rebel and riot and kill health workers in order to gain access to their beloved dead!  They do!  Right now, right here in 2014!

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1752 on: November 06, 2014, 12:15:26 PM »
In the New Yorker article you can read about how they were trying to find the SOURCE of an outbreak of Ebola in Sierra Leone in Africa.  They learned this:  one of the very first to come in and be diagnosed with this disease was a woman who had recently traveled to Guinea to a funeral for a Faith Healer.  This Faith Healer had tried to CURE a number of Ebola patients there in Guinea, and those attempts included close hands-on rites.  The Faith Healer came down with Ebola and died.  So the virus team checked out the other contacts at this same funeral, and found TWELVE (12) more Ebola victims, all women!  These lived in a number of different places, but they had all washed and hugged and kissed and patted the dead body of the Faith Healer in the traditional and long-practiced way of the population there.

Yes, they KNOW NOW that Ebola can only be spread by contact with bodily liquids from those ill from this virus.  This is, as of this writing, an absolute.  But they also know that viruses mutate, and that everything is SUBJECT TO CHANGE.  And so they will not answer reporters questions with absolutes.  IMHO reporters should both arm themselves with Full Knowledge of the subject they are writing about AND stop writing provocative, trouble insinuating articles.  The dedicated experts and medical workers going out into ground zero to battle this virus deserve all the protection from public fury our Media can possibly offer them.  And yes, some of them have been deliberately murdered by terribly frightened and totally ignorant people.  This is all there in the books and articles.

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1753 on: November 06, 2014, 12:29:45 PM »
 :)Oh..oh..ohhh!  So sorry about that!  It isn't at the msn site now, but this appeared to be the same, albeit somewhat shorter.  I'll look for the original:

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/spontaneously-cured-men-hiv-key-beat-virus-article-1.2000006

Of course they are quick to say it's all a very brand new approach, but they're hopeful.


A college science course must be taken within five years of completing your degree in some fields.  Of course, they used to say that knowledge doubles every five years - its actually sooner now, I think -  but your science courses have to be taken within five years to be transferred - or they have to be  re-taken.  I had the rare privilege of working with a young woman taking cell biology and anatomy and physiology at a local college - I even compared her texts to those I had from my nursing courses.  Indeed, much had been learned, yet nothing I learned was 'wrong' - just more completely and thoroughly explained; we often knew certain things were there or happened in a certain way, though we often did not know why.

Of course these deceased should be cremated.  and of course, there are impediments to implementing the best treatment/containment methods we now know.

My grandmother used to say, "Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see."  I assure you that I look twice as carefully at 'news' that I know follows my biases, so I'm not blind-sided later! 

But by the logic you lay out in your first post, no one could read anything and trust anything they are reading.  You trust the information you read in the books you recommended and in the Times article, I'm assuming.  The research cited at the CDC site is cautious about their results and the degree to which their conclusions can be generalized because the samples are so small.  That is a proper response.  And their findings - with their qualifying statements - do not seem to be at odds with this article.   

Are you thinking that I have no experience with viruses?  Or of proper scientific methodology in research?  I've taken courses in research (including one on 'How to Lie With Statistics') and had to complete an original piece of research for my master's degree.  Do you think I am not familiar with difficulties - even in this country -  of getting people to follow medical advice?  (That's actually why I was skeptical of the Affordable Care Act, which seemed to start with the assumption that everyone would love to get good health care but just couldn't afford it; a year in Public Health Nursing would quickly help someone find the error in that assumption!).

At any rate...

I really do hope you all have a great day!!  there is so much good happening out here! :)

 


MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1754 on: November 06, 2014, 12:50:34 PM »
Nothing I have written is meant to infer that you do not have knowledge of viruses, Megamom, or knowledge of people's resistance to medical advice.  In fact, I tried hard to say that you DO know.  It is the very fascinating HISTORY of the expert virus hunters experiences that we have to go to those very highly specialized books to find out about, as most of this information is simply not available elsewhere, and it is not written into the medical textbooks and required knowledge in any courses that I have heard about.

And I am not, perish the thought, attempting to say that reporters should not report the news.  What I AM saying is that when it comes to all important public medical information they should be careful to allow the medical experts to give the information precisely as they think it best to do, and not write rabble rousing articles that pose frivolous questions about the sagacity of those experts.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1755 on: November 25, 2014, 09:01:10 AM »
In the November 24, 2014 issue of THE NEW YORKER on page 18 in a letter to the magazine a woman named Mary Lou Singleton of Albuquerque, New Mexico writes:
"at what point does a woman cease to be a human being and become a state-regulated incubator?"
I'm with YOU, Mary Lou!

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1756 on: November 26, 2014, 08:29:46 AM »
I hope everyone on Seniorlearn has a wonderful day for Thanksgiving.. Lots of food, family and laughter ( I prize laughter over almost anything)
Stephanie and assorted corgi

nlhome

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1757 on: November 26, 2014, 01:42:52 PM »
Thank you, Steph. May you have laughter.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1758 on: December 01, 2014, 09:08:58 AM »
Daisy is making sure that I laugh. I get the feeling that under the very tentative little girl lurks a determined Queen of the universe Corgi.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1759 on: December 06, 2014, 01:19:17 PM »