Women's Issues

[Steph]

Seems to be another human who has been on the edge of sanity for a long long time.

[maryz]

Why don't they call it "domestic terrorism"?  That's what it is!

[Judy Laird]

MP glad that your sciatica is better. Went to the Dr last week and he upped the dosage. Here I thought I was taking so much turns out it comes in much stronger pills.

[Steph]

Sounds like my tummy when it burns.. Doc said.. take double Nexium, since when they go over the counter, they halve the dosage.. Interesting fact to me,

[mogamom]

I have heard it called 'home-grown terrorism'.  But I have not heard a motive given in this case?  Neighbors said he wasn't particularly religious or political.  Planned Parenthood said they weren't even sure they were the target, since no staff were hurt.

This administration has repeatedly stated they were more concerned with home-grown terrorism and have identified the people/groups they believe to be the greatest danger to the country as members of the Tea Party, retired and returning veterans and evangelical Christians.  I haven't heard what has happened with the law-suit a recruit filed when he was 'trained' in recognizing and combatting terrorism and the group was told that if any of the recruits in any way supported any evangelical Christian church or organization they would be put on a watch list as well.

Interestingly, Swassey, the police officer killed, was an elder in his church and vehemently opposed to abortion - yet he ran in to protect and defend people engaged in an activity he personally detested - and gave his life for them.  That is someone who is Pro-Life.  That is a Christian, a true believer.  I know of no Christian who would EVER advocate or condone harm to someone with whom they disagreed.

[Steph]

I agree if you are a true christian, but there are so many who have their own version of christianity that seems to involve a lot of.. no no no..
Killing anyone is wrong..there is no right to it.. but then I am a quaker.

[MaryPage]

Most Muslims feel it is a sin against God to kill another Muslim.  The terrorists among them do not feel this way.

The Christian faith I was raised in is most definitely against killing.  We truly had Thou Shalt Not Kill drummed into us.

But I do notice that the news reports have stated that there are websites with photos and addresses and phone numbers of doctors and nurses involved in providing abortions  And these websites, plus the killers who have been apprehended, make all sorts of religious statements, including God wants this, God told me to do it, and that they have been Born Again and thus Saved.  One cannot help but conclude that a small number of Christians believe killing abortion providers is a Good Thing, just as a small number of Muslims feel killing other Muslims who do not agree with them is a Good Thing.

I have listened to Cecile Richards response, plus that of the woman who is the head of Planned Parenthood in Colorado and a number of others associated with Planned Parenthood.  I have not heard a single one of them suggest they may not have been the target of this attack.

[BarbStAubrey]

After God formed man in Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”. Although the man was fully formed by God in all respects, he was not a living being until after taking his first breath.

In Job 33:4, it states: “The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

Again, to quote Ezekiel 37:5&6, “Thus says the Lord God to these bones:   Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live.   And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”

Genesis 38:24 Tamar's pregnancy was discovered three months after conception, presumably because it was visible at that time. This was positive proof that she had been sexually active. Because she was a widow, without a husband, she was assumed to be a prostitute. Her father-in-law Judah ordered that she be burned alive for her crime.

If Tamar's twin fetuses had been considered to be human beings, one would have expected her execution would have been delayed until after their birth. There was no condemnation on Judah for deciding to take this action. (Judah later changed his mind when he found out that he was the man responsible for Tamar's pregnancy.)

In Exodus 21:22 it states that if a man causes a woman to have a miscarriage, he shall be fined; however, if the woman dies then he will be put to death. It should be apparent from this that the aborted fetus is not considered a living human being since the resulting punishment for the abortion is nothing more than a fine; it is not classified by the bible as a capital offense.

According to the bible, destroying a living fetus does not equate to killing a living human being even though the fetus has the potential of becoming a human being.   One can not kill something that has not been born and taken a breath.   This means that a stillborn would not be considered a human being either.   Of course, every living sperm has the potential of becoming a human being although not one in a million will make it; the rest are aborted.

God has decreed, for one reason or another, that at least one-third of all pregnancies shall be terminated by a spontaneous abortion during the first trimester of pregnancy and that a number will be terminated after the first trimester.   It would appear that God does not have any more regard for the loss of a fetus than he does for the loss of a placenta or a foreskin despite the fact that these were living tissue as the result of conception.

In 1973, Wallie Amos ‘W. A.’ Criswell, President of the Southern Baptist Convention from 1968 to 1970:
"I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person, and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed."

[MaryPage]

Excellent, Barbara!

I have no memory of having read that previously.

As the mother of many children, and having had one born dead and several miscarriages, as well, I have always comforted myself with the thought that a person is not a person until they are born into this world and take breath.  Every one to their own personal and private belief system say I, but don't shove YOUR belief into MY life and I won't insist upon shoving mine into yours.

Agreed?

I won't make you have an abortion.  Never, ever would I do that.  Just don't plan on keeping me or mine from having one if that is our choice.  As for all that taxpayer dollars nonsense, hey, my taxpayer dollars are going to pay salaries and perks, which include a myriad of trips to see foreign countries, for a host of congresspeople who make me want to throw up, not to mention all of the machinery of war and a lot of other crap that flies in the face of all that I believe in.

So let us agree to try to send folks to Congress who will actually earn their living serving the American Taxpayers and stop trying to obstruct women from exercising their individual rights under our Constitution in choosing what health care will be readily available to them.

[Steph]

The latest shootings in California is horrible, but even worse is the fact that a woman was an active shooter. First time I know of..

[MaryPage]

How 'bout Bonnie of Bonnie & Clyde?  She was a real person.

I read in this mornings newspaper that Robert Dear, he of the Planned Parenthood shootings, was a religious zealot.  Apparently this comes from one of his ex wives.  They also say he put glue on the locks of a Charleston, South Carolina clinic years ago.

[BarbStAubrey]

what is it with these zealots and their ex's - haha - oh please you gotta laugh today to get some balance back - but do we now examine like the airport security process all those who have an ex and who attend church - can you just see it - two entrances to each place of worship - one with the security setup if you have an ex and the other for "normal" folks to enter the church     

[MaryPage]

It becomes more and more obvious that just one single adjustment to our culture is not going to solve this problem.
Obviously we DO need to work on the Mental Health aspect.
Obviously we do need to fix stupid gaps in the system we have in place for the buying, selling, and licensing of guns.
Obviously we have to address the constant barrage of outrageous violence as portrayed on our televisions and in our movie houses.  It is mostly children who eat this stuff up, and we should stop feeding it to them and instead teach them more humane and dignified standards of living their lives.
We have to start pointing with alarm at the numbers of human beings in our planet wide population and tell the truth about the fact that we do not now have enough resources to give these numbers the things needed for them to lead decent lives.  We need to admit that Al Gore's research was correct and start selling the Chinese ideal of one child per couple as THE IDEAL for all.  We have to pull out the old Rat City experiment from back when I was a child, which showed the small population all happy and contented and full of concern for one another, all the way up to the group becoming too large for their resources to sustain and they became violent murderers and cannibals.
We have to start teaching all children in all populations that they must not view life through the rose colored glasses of how they BELIEVE life should be, but through the clear glass of how it actually IS, and be totally truthful about how it is and demand the truth from our leadership.  Then, together and with all hope for one another, we must try to solve our myriad problems before we and the ways we persist in clinging to cause the total extinction of homo sapiens.
Have you SEEN those films on the evening news of how the population cannot BREATHE in Chinese cities?  It is terrifying.  But we cannot ignore this.  It is REAL.
Coming at us soon, just as surely as the storms blasting away in our heartland, will be the total collapse of our insurance system.  How long can insurance companies afford to replace so many homes per year destroyed by flood, fire, and storms?

[BarbStAubrey]

My thought MaryPage is it is about HOPE - hope is no longer active in most who used to have decent paying jobs that allowed them to bring up a family, attend school functions, take the children out for supper now and then or to a movie and believe they would be better off the next year or at least the year after that - Middle Class values that have gone by the boards with the loss of dollars available to the many -

We know it and folks are angry so that every thing pisses them off - there is a general low key anger where ever you go these days - and those who are on the edge for a variety of reasons blow - it is easier to get hysterical over what others are or are not doing then fix what you believe is your own problem that you believe is unfixable -

It is easy to stop reining in your anger when you see others on TV including, sorry to say but it is true the ones you depended on to care about you - yes, the police - granted there are many good guys but the news is filled with the bad guys and they really have spoiled the reputation of them all so that everyone feels they are entitled to let their anger lose and that now they need to take care of themselves, so they get their own protection and they need to control everything around them to be sure they can live on in this maze of uncontrollable unfairness which leaves them feeling hopeless that life will be better. 

[MaryPage]

Another thing I do not understand is why we walk wide circles around certain subjects in this country and never step up and hit the nail on the head.

For instance, Donald Trump is calling out President Obama for not calling these terrorist attacks "Islamic Terrorism."  While what the President is trying to do is to keep hot headed citizens from attacking our thousands of perfectly innocent mosques full of totally innocent American citizens.  If we had been attacked by only Presbyterians, Trump would scream bloody blue murder if the president called it Presbyterian Terrorism!  He would!  In a heart beat!  He would claim Obama was attempting to rile up the public against ALL Presbyterians!

It all depends, always has and apparently always will, on whose ox is being gored.  I think our President needs to do all he can to protect innocent Americans, and in order to be fair to our over eight million Muslims, he needs to use language that will not inflame.  That's what good leaders attempt to do!

And I think our Media needs to start putting this information in their news reporting.  If they are going to show clips of Trump saying these things, then they need to report on WHY the President is being careful with his rhetoric.

[rosemarykaye]

Totally agree, MaryPage - but even our BBC is now very biased in much of its reporting. The slating it is giving to the new Labour leader - the inestimable (IMO) Jeremy Corbyn - is atrocious. I couldn't bring myself to listen to too much debate on Radio 4 re whether or not 'we' should bomb Syria, but those who did say Corbyn was talked over, interrupted and ridiculed whereas Cameron & co were given free rein.

If the BBC is doing this, I dread to think what Fox News is saying.

Rosemary

[MaryPage]

I am disappointed to hear that, Rosemary, as I have long admired the news services in Great Britain.  Truth to tell, I have actually learned stuff from your papers that we were not reading in our own!

But then again, back in the thirties we knew all about Mrs. Simpson and the King, and mum was the word in the British press!

[rosemarykaye]

I have heard many people say that the most reliable news source now is actually Al Jazeera (English version) (we can get it on cable). My daughter knows someone (British) who works for it (who studied Arabic at university). The station is becoming much more highly esteemed than the BBC. I haven't watched it yet myself but I think I'll give it a try.

[Steph]

I am not happy with myself, but I now am beginning to want more oversight. The woman seems to have been the person who was slanted and possibly was before she came. We need better oversight.. Just because a US citizen wanted to marry her does not make her a suitable person to come to the US.. Think of that poor baby.. Years from now finding out what her parents did.. Even the male shooters sisters says she did not have anything to do with anyone,, only spoke URDU... and did not even answer her door.. Hmm.. There needs to be some sort of barricade for when our citizens become radicalized.. No idea what or how.. but I am growing uncomfortable about what is happening.

[MaryPage]

What is more, his family members say they NEVER saw her face!  That photo must have come from her passport.
Yes, it is early days yet, but MSNBC has been inundated with information coming in by the minute.  Thus far the story would seem to be that she was already radicalized.  My bet is that it was her assignment from ISIS to hook up with an American Muslim.  He went over to Saudi Arabia both to meet her and to do his religious duty, and became caught up in her fervor.  No doubt she courted him and got him to do everything her way.  When you look at her house, such a nightmare of a mess, you can picture that her mind was totally consumed with the excitement of jihad.
We have over 8 million Muslims in this country.  There are nearly 2 billion in this world.  There are not enough employees in the entire government to track them all.
Therefore, we have to keep excellent relations with our own Muslim community and inspire them, with friendship and love and INCLUSION, to help us with information about dangerous behavior before it turns into mass killings.
And we have to, have to, have to pass that bill that makes it law to have a background check on ANYONE buying a gun from ANY source in this country.  As of this moment, if you go into a gun store to purchase a gun or guns, that background check is made.  But if you have a gun or guns you wish to sell, you can run an ad for them in any way you wish and sell to whomsoever shows up with the cash and NO CHECK IS REQUIRED.  This loophole is killing innocent people and is the broad open highway to killing more.
Rachel Maddow said last night that there is a huge slice of America believing some websites that say Sandy Hook and all the others and this latest mass shooting in California never happened.  Those First Graders never died.  It is all a hoax perpetrated by those who want stricter gun laws.  The news shots we have all seen have been made by actors.  No one died.  They are telling everyone not to fall for this government's propaganda!
UNbelievable!  What a dizzy, dizzy planet!  What a hopeless species I am one of!

[MaryPage]

Wonder what the conspiracy theorists say to explain away all the many funerals.  Did the Sandy Hook school get torn down and rebuilt as another expense to prop up the conspiracy?

Why is it a person's name can be on a "no fly" list and no airline will carry them, but that same person can buy as many guns as they like?

There is a bill that says no one can be on a no fly list and buy a gun.  But the NRA opposes it, so, of course, it does not get passed.

[Steph]

I just saw this morning that the friend of his who had supplied two guns checked himself into a mental Institution the day of the murders. Now thats totally weird, but I must confess that I think he got snowed by a woman, who was sent to do just that.

[BarbStAubrey]

the photos of her face sure shows a determined look - but then are we so easily drawn in - I guess nothing new since Mata Hari, the WWI Courtesan and Spy

[Steph]

Our entire congress seemed to be sheep.. Why oh why would you want someone on the do not fly list to be able to buy a gun.. Sigh.

[MaryPage]

They asked that very question over and over on the Sunday morning talk shows, and the official GOP response is:  "Because sometimes there are names on the no fly list that are mistakes, or are innocent persons with the same names." 

It gets so tiresome.  Every time a new question comes up, Republicans get the word as to what their line is, and over and over and still over again you hear that line repeated verbatim on every network and every cable channel.  Everyone who has a newstalk kind of show asks it, and every Republican gives the exact same answer.  They remind me of robots instead of human beings.

[MaryPage]

It occurs to me this morning for the very first time that the glorious right I received upon my birth as a citizen of these United States, the franchise, my understood right to cast a vote once I achieved a certain age and which all of my life I have considered first among rights, is not considered anywhere near first by followers of the GOP.  Indeed, they are quick and spiffy about passing every type of law to put yet another obstacle in the path of Democrats to vote.

Nope, their Number One most cherished right is the right to own, carry and use as many guns as they please.  Let there be no obstacle in their pathway to purchase an instrument of Death, while they come up with every diabolical trick they can invent to keep the opposition from the voting booth!

[Steph]

I am now convinced that Donald Trump will say anything to get in the news.. and that his followers seem to be back in WWII and putting the japanese in camps, which was terribly wrong, but understandable at the time of the attack.

[MaryPage]

I often wonder why it was just race that made the difference.  I mean, we had millions more of German descent in this country than we had of Japanese descent, yet we did nothing about locking them up in detention camps.  Ignorance.

As for Donald Trump, I have a mental picture of a bear baiting or a dog fight or a cock fight every time I hear him now.  Especially early in the morning when he goes on the Morning Joe show on MSNBC by telephone.  Donald Trump is imploding.  He has climbed the mountain and claimed it as King of The Mountain, but now the pack of wolves have surrounded him and are relentlessly goading him into the next and the next and the next ridiculous statement that make him out to be a perfect fool, and not a king at all.  He is about to go down in total disgrace and be left in the dust with a BUFFOON sign on him.  As an individual, he is never going to understand what happened to him (too much hubris pumped up by too few facts), and it makes me sick to my stomach to see a man, ANY man, brought down in this way even though it is of his own doing.  He has become a daily cartoon show, albeit an ugly one.  But then again, when you stop and think of the history of cartoons, they have always relentlessly revealed the nastier instincts of the human race.

I wish at this point we would just walk away and leave him alone to flounder about until he catches on and goes home and shuts the door, and, one hopes, his big mouth.

[BarbStAubrey]

German nationals were automatically classified as "enemy aliens". I know because the uncle of my best friend Nancy Klug was taken away in handcuffs only because he had emigrated a few years before - according to Wikipedia, during WWII, the United States detained a total of 11,507 ethnic Germans, out of 1,237,000 of those identified as not being US citizens and of German birth.

The US detained only a few who were Italian nationals, (not US citizens, or long-term US residents). Representing the axis powers, there were some 695,000 Italian 'nationals' in the United States. Taken into custody, along coastal areas were 1881 Italian nationals detained under wartime restrictions.

If you remember we were whipped up in fear about Asians and we were urged to burn and trash any piece of ceramics we owned that said made in either Japan or China. I also remember the fear was urged reminding us how easily what happened in Pearl Harbor could happen to cities on the west coast. 

I think that was the difference why German's or Italians were not detained in similar numbers - neither attacked US soil. However, for sure German's were detained as was merchant seamen either German or Italian trapped in US ports by the outbreak of war. At the time my father had something to do with shipping and I remember him coming home and telling us of the FBI round up of Germans aboard ships unloading cargo on the docks.

What is different - where Japanese interns were compensated and received an apology from the United States, German and Italians received an apology but no compensation.

However, prior to the outbreak of WWII Japanese adults were not allowed to become citizens, only children born in the US of Japanese heritage where as, this did not hold true for Germans or Italians. Another tidbit Italians had been urged to become citizens through some process that was as simple as visiting an office and not having to study or take a test.

[mabel1015j]

Trump's diatribe yesterday was very scary. He is sounding just like Joseph McCarthy, but with a much bigger bully pulpit. His disparaging of Pres Obama concerns me that some nut, like the guy at the PP site will feel the need to act on his words against Obama. After about 15 minutes of listening to him rant about everyone, I turned it off. He was doing nothing but spewing hate for everyone.

Some retired military man on Fox called Obama a "p---y"  after his oval office speech, not only offensive to anyone holding the position of president, but to all women. And one of the young women on Fox said Obama's speech "sounded like he didn't give a sh--,"  stopping just short of finishing the word. I don't consider myself a prude by any means, but I can't believe I'm hearing adults saying these kinds of things. First of all it speaks to their lack of an intelligent vocabulary, let alone their disrespect for the audience and our government.

It is so depressing that we can't have an intelligent discussion around a presidential campaign and around this important issue of terror. Can you imagine Eisenhower and Stevenson having such a conversation!?! I certainly don't want to go back to the fifties for many, many reasons, but for adult, clean, intelligence, I could go for that.

Oh, Trump also said "Hillary can't be president, she's not strong, she doesn't have stamina......" Is that both a sexist and ageist statement? Nobody's talking about that.

Jean

[MaryPage]

Tom Brokaw gave an impassioned piece about Trump's proposal tonight.  I would have sobbed if my eyes could still make tears.  I hope you all heard it, and that if you did not you will hear it later, as it is bound to be repeated and repeated for years to come.  It was truly beautiful and will stir you no end.

[Steph]

My mother was adopted and her adoptive mother was  German born from the Black Forest area.She had brothers who h ad children and I know how she grieved during the way as to what happend to them. After the war, she tried to find them, butnever found a clue as to what had happened to them.
Trump has passed any sort of rational behavior down.. I agree that he is way scary, he sounds so much like Joe.. and people cheer him on. The arguement being that most of them as the ones who hate the current behavior in the US. I am convinced that others are getting more and more irrational about Obama because of the atmosphere. I am not altogether happy with him, but do understand his position mostly.

[MaryPage]

The world reaction is incredible.  First time, insofar as I can remember, that there has been such a chorus of protest against a candidate for the presidency of the U.S.

I heard a British MP this morning state in no uncertain language that Trump is a Liar.  They say he is telling outright lies about the state of things in London.

The Head of Scotland Yard, and they did say this was for the first time in HISTORY that that person has made a public political statement, said for public consumption that Trump is a Liar and Lying about many things.

Other voices are speaking up from many points around the globe.  I note that his fellow Republicans are calling him a Nazi and pointing out that this is who his followers are and that the Neo-Nazi websites having been cheering for him for ages now.  I had never thought of him in that way, but now I can see the fit.  They are saying white undereducated males and their spouses who are full of Big Talk about taking the most simplistic Bully Boy approach to any problem without so much as a moment's thought as to ramifications and consequences.

[MaryPage]

I was right!  The remarkable Tom Brokaw piece is being repeated on MSNBC today.

[mabel1015j]

Brokow's segment can be seen here

http://www.mediamatters.org

[FlaJean]

Thanks or posting that, Mable.  Another scary candidate is Senator Cruz, but he is more clever than Trump in disguising his beliefs. IMO

[rosemarykaye]

The reaction against Trump's latest has been virtually unanimous here in the UK (and that's saying something). It is total rubbish to say that our police have lost control or are scared of parts of London - they aren't, and they are almost all unarmed too.

I do so hope that Aberdeen Asset Management will take the Open (golf) away from his totally horrible golf resort, for which he flattened and ruined an area of natural beauty just north of Aberdeen and evicted people from homes they had lived in for many years just because he couldn't conceive of not having his own way. Many city councillors opposed his planning applications but unfortunately the utterly heinous local evening paper tore them to pieces and went on and on and on about how many jobs this thing would create, so in the end, predictably, his money spoke.

Robert Gordon's University in Aberdeen is considering taking away the honorary degree that it for some unknown reason awarded him some time ago.

Horrible, dangerous man - I thought UKIP were bad enough, but even Nigel Farage has come out against Trump. As Steph says, he appeals to the bully in people who are scared and think they can shout their way out of anything.  I hope Muslims are encouraged to see how people the world over have criticised Trump now.

I see that when the BBC mentioned that Trump was being compared to Voldemort, JK Rowling intervened to say that wasn't fair, as he's a hundred times worse than the One Who Must Not be Named.

[BarbStAubrey]

And yet, it is Cruz who is winning in Iowa - this is turning into such a nightmare I am having a difficult time giving Advent my attention - started out in good fashion and now I cannot even settle down - between this political scene and all the put down of women and learning how much mis-information we are fed with the whole thing on the CIA and the Kennedy death plus, we have locally a rash of folks who have found our neighborhood and are stealing Christmas decorations and ransacking vehicles in driveways down to not even being able to trust our food -

Every other week it seems I buy, not even processed or canned but supposedly fresh and I end up living in my bathroom for a day so that the only food that appears safe is what I buy at greater cost, local at the Farmer's Market -

I guess that was a litany but I am stove in by all of this and do not even know what to do to pick my self up - I should get out and walk but I feel like a rebellious 3 year old and do not even want to change to get out of the house. I'm eating the strangest combination of foods because I do not feel like getting out to the store - I shut the TV off except for PBS weeks ago and it still creeps in. grrrrr -

[BarbStAubrey]

[Steph]

She was a brave and adventurous woman.. and lovely as well..
Seems that Israel does not want Trump just now.. Finally.. someone who says no.. hmm. I fear for our nation.. I agree that Cruz says horrid things, but quietly and his nomination will be bad for women, as would Ryan.