Author Topic: Women's Issues  (Read 391963 times)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2320 on: December 10, 2015, 10:41:18 AM »
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2321 on: December 10, 2015, 12:02:05 PM »
I am so happy that in this wonderful season you hold so much Hope in your heart,  Barbara.  That is a beautiful thing.

My despair is rather total, though I do take a turn in my mind and look at my precious family and enjoy their lives vicariously from my old lady boudoir chair surrounded by all of the amenities.  I often think back over three quarters of a century to my great grandmother sitting in her comfy chair with a card table always in front of her and playing endless games of solitaire.  I can still hear her shuffling those cards and remember playing a game of double solitaire she taught me.  It was called Russian Bank, and we had a lot of fun playing it together.  And I wonder what she would think of my playing solitaire where I never have to shuffle and the cards never grown worn and I am never in need of a new pack and when I have finally won, the cards just fly to their little piles with no work on my part.  She would be bedazzled.  So much is different, and so much is just the same.  We come into this world, and we leave it.  What is better and what is worse?

I fear we have lost dignity, courtesy, empathy, responsibility, sense of duty, decency, honesty, integrity.  Grown up men do not exhibit maturity any more, but foolish, childish remarks that are harmful to themselves, their colleagues, their families and neighbors, their communities, and their countries.  No one seems to stop and THINK about consequences.  I see wise men, I hear wise men.  But their voices are lonely in the wild winds tearing across our mountains and plains from sea to shining sea.  They are lost in the rush to rant louder than the taunting masses with messages to tear down the beautiful fabric this nation was built of and become a humongous dreadnaught of the Military Industrial Machine Dwight D. Eisenhower warned us of in his parting words to us.  Boy, that President had a prescience we could wish all of our leaders had today.  He was a patriot and a statesman.  I pray fiercely that we may be sent more of the same.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2322 on: December 11, 2015, 08:12:28 AM »
Eisenhauer was an excellent general and President.. He looked ahead and truly felt responsible. I think that responsibility is what is missing in the current crop of politicians.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

rosemarykaye

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2323 on: December 11, 2015, 08:53:59 AM »
I have just heard an excellent interview on BBC Radio 4 Women's Hour with Annie Lennox. She is a singer - formerly half of The Eurythmics - who came originally from a very poor background in Aberdeen. She is such a feminist icon, but very modest and quiet. She was talking about how her life changed when she had her daughters (she's 61 now) and music was no longer her sole obsession. She also talked about travelling to third world countries with Comic Relief and seeing with her own eyes the daily struggles of women to gain their basic human rights.

She said that she is still (as she said of herself years ago) 'despairing and morose - who wouldn't be on this planet with the outrageous things that happen, the cruelty and injustice?' but that she just keeps on keeping on and trying to do a bit of good.

She also spoke about one of her most famous songs, 'Sisters are doing it for themselves' - when she wrote it, she said to her then partner Dave Stewart 'Where do you fit in to this?' - he ended up with the guitar solo in the middle :)  She is not at all anti-men, 'I believe that men are very important to partner with us, shoulder to shoulder. I think men can be feminists and some are.'

You might be able to listen to this on BBC i-player or via their website if you are interested.

Rosemary

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2324 on: December 11, 2015, 09:18:35 AM »
Sounds wonderful, Rosemary, and just my philosophy and experience.  I was married to a feminist;  I mean, he was totally so.  And he promoted women as much as he could.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2325 on: December 12, 2015, 08:28:57 AM »
There is a new book out titled THE DEATH OF CANCER by Vincent T. DeVita, Jr.

An extensive review appears in the December 14th issue of The New Yorker under the title TOUGH MEDICINE by Malcolm Gladwell.

This is the New Yorker with the cover of a young couple gaily filling up their wire grocery basket with guns and grenades.

I am hoping the entire medical community and the world reads this article, as it confirms what I have been suspecting for some time now.  All of my gut instincts have been screaming it at me that the fight to cure cancer has lost out to the dominant instinct to make tons of money in the business of treating cancer.

Now here is a highly qualified insider reporting that it has, indeed.

One wonders where all of the finer values of Life have disappeared.  Money Rules.  It tastes so bitter to the inner spirit.  Nevertheless, I have to highly recommend this review and, based upon this review, this book to each and all of you.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2326 on: December 12, 2015, 08:50:42 AM »
Big Money has reared its ugly head into pharma.. I cannot believe the things that are happening in the world of generic meds.. Our congress is too involved with fearing and hating women to notice, but we truly need to regulate medicines..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2327 on: December 12, 2015, 10:15:15 AM »
I see the medical field nothing but a money trap for the last couple of years - had my eyes done separately - the one about 4 or maybe 5 years ago - used Medicare - total cost $60 and a few visits where I paid over and above the cost of a visit $28 - everything included as it was done in the local hospital - this time, last Spring the same doctor who was now with a different group - they had their own clinic and their own supposedly rented space for surgery - it was like the Walmart of cataract removal with one after another doing 15 to 20 patients one after the other -

Each aspect of the work was priced separately much of it avoiding Medicare including paying for all meds before and after - paying for the lens - on and on, cost me $3000 plus $59 for each visit above what Medicare pays and every visit they try to get me to sign up for another test that i know is part of the usually testing that is basic - so far I was able to allude them by saying no and this time they insisted - all it is is measuring your peripheral vision that they want to charge me $120 in addition that is again part of the testing - I am not going to go back and go to the group of doctors where she quit -

I do not know if they also have increased using all the gimmicks but somehow I trust them more - since I do have a problem with my one eye I will need further work but not with her any longer only because of what they did to get all this money from non suspecting folks - one guy was ranting and raving about not learning in advance the cost and not having it - he was made to appear like a crazy =- he wasn't - if my son was not with me I would have also been a basket case. 

a few year ago I had a similar experience with a so called inhouse testing lab - filthy and she never did the tests I was to pay for - I squawked and did not go back - was able to see a Dr when I visited my daughter and now do not regularly see a doctor - all this is utter nonsense - I did see a specialist 2 years ago for my back and had a good experience but when I went to a GP it was the same with the exray center not doing the exray because I was on Medicare - you have to know how to treat yourself and know your illness or else you are putty in their greedy hands. A few hundred OK but this is thousands...   
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2328 on: December 12, 2015, 10:43:36 AM »
The scariest thing about this book is that it is not written by an investigative reporter or a scare monger.  Not that I do not treasure the good that our investigative reporters do, sometimes losing their lives going after the Truth.

No, this book has been the life work of one of the most prestigious cancer doctors on the planet.  He has headed up the MOST famous and highly praised cancer hospitals.  No voice from any direction can speak up and attack his qualifications.  If he does not know whereof he speaks, no one does.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2329 on: December 12, 2015, 12:52:25 PM »
I see the medical field as nothing but a money trap for the last couple of years - had my eyes done separately - the one about 4 or maybe 5 years ago - used Medicare - total cost $60 and a few visits where I paid over and above the cost of a visit $28 - everything included as it was done in the local hospital - this time, last Spring the same doctor who was now with a different group - they had their own clinic and their own supposedly rented space for surgery - it was like the Walmart of cataract removal with one after another doing 15 to 20 patients one after the other -

Each aspect of the work was priced separately much of it avoiding Medicare including paying for all meds before and after - paying for the lens - on and on, cost me $3000 plus $59 for each visit above what Medicare pays and every visit they try to get me to sign up for another test that I know is part of the usually testing that is basic - so far I was able to allude them by saying no and this time they insisted - all it is is measuring your peripheral vision that they want to charge me $120 in addition that is again part of the testing - I am not going to go back and go to the group of doctors where she quit -

I do not know if they also have increased using all the gimmicks but somehow I trust them more - since I do have a problem with my one eye I will need further work but not with her any longer only because of what they did to get all this money from non suspecting folks - one guy was ranting and raving about not learning in advance the cost and not having it - he was made to appear like a crazy - he wasn't - if my son was not with me I would have also been a basket case. 

a few year ago I had a similar experience with a so called inhouse testing lab - filthy and she never did the tests I was to pay for - I squawked and did not go back - was able to see a Dr when I visited my daughter and now do not regularly see a doctor - all this is utter nonsense - I did see a specialist 2 years ago for my back and had a good experience but when I went to a GP it was the same with the exray center not doing the exray because I was on Medicare - you have to know how to treat yourself and know your illness or else you are putty in their greedy hands. A few hundred OK but this is thousands...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2330 on: December 13, 2015, 12:07:48 PM »
I have a wonderful general practitioner and go twice a year for blood work and general questions. She takes the medicare and medigap assignment so no charge to me. She is honest... and straightforward. I consider myself very lucky indeed. She always believes in trying natural meds first and it makes me trust her even more. I know.. I am lucky
Stephanie and assorted corgi

CallieOK

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2331 on: December 13, 2015, 01:55:02 PM »
Recently, I went to my GP of 35 years to see about a possible fungus under a fingernail.  When the nurse (also long-time) took me into the examining room, she began taking my blood pressure and checking my temperature and blood oxygen level  (I declined being weighed!).  I asked her why all these were necessary when I only needed my fingernail checked and she said,  "Medicare requires it every time."    What a waste!

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2332 on: December 13, 2015, 04:19:10 PM »
Now I am curious as to whether or not what she told you was correct information!

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2333 on: December 13, 2015, 04:35:51 PM »
Could be it was correct if the GP was collecting from Medicare on more than one area of payback - which would allow him to keep his prices within the pocketbook of his patients by getting more return from Medicare however, it means he would have to satisfy another addition set of criteria to be able to collect.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

rosemarykaye

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2334 on: December 13, 2015, 05:51:39 PM »
We have the opposite in that getting the GPs to do any tests at all is like pulling teeth. I was recently advised (by the hospital)  to have a repeat cholesterol test - went into GPs to make an appointment and got the complete 3rd degree from the scary receptionist - she finally caved in and made an appointment for me, but only when she'd checked my records, read the hospital's request, and couldn't think of any other way out of it.

I know the NHS is a very good thing, but it's a bit frustrating when we are forever reading that we should get regular checks on things like blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar, etc, yet the chances of getting any of those done by just approaching the local surgery is almost nil. Breast screening is another difficult one, as all of the GPs' practices in Scotland are on 3 year rotations for it - ie once every 3 years every eligible woman registered with a practice in a certain area will be called for testing. If, like me, you move house quite often, you can find yourself arriving at a new GP practice just after they've done their tests - you then have to wait 3 years for their turn to come up again, but if you left your last GP just before their turn was due, you can find yourself actually waiting six years for a test. Try explaining that to the receptionists - they simply refuse to listen. Hey ho - I do appreciate that in the US it's much worse.

Rosemary

CallieOK

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2335 on: December 13, 2015, 10:15:32 PM »
The GP I mentioned is now caring for the 4th generation of my family, as is his nurse.  Over the years, he has gone way beyond the call of duty to take a personal interest and to advise us about treatments, tests, referrals to specialists, etc.; he has always honored our requests. His professional and personal ethics are above reproach.
 In the past few years, I have become very aware of changes in what he is "required" and "allowed" to do for patients who are not able to pay over and above the allotted amounts. Fortunately, I am not among them - but some of my personal friends who are also go to him and we are never treated differently by any of the office personnel or medical staff.

Just as there are still classrooms in which the learning atmosphere is good, there are medical people who are providing outstanding care.
 

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2336 on: December 14, 2015, 08:46:14 AM »
My nephew is a hospitalist doctor specializing in Pulmonary Intensive care. He loves the adrenalin on really ill humans. Says he would not be in private practice for anything.. Too many rules.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2337 on: December 20, 2015, 02:24:02 AM »
      HAPPY BIRTHDAY, STEPH!

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2338 on: December 21, 2015, 07:15:26 AM »
The January 2016 (Oh, can you BELIEVE that date!) issue of National Geographic has an astonishing article about a village in northeastern India where a very old tribe that has been left alone to itself still follows a matrilineal social order.  The youngest daughter in any given family inherits All and rules the roost.  Men are very respectful of women.  It is a very small, but very charming story, and I wish they would do a TV documentary on it!  Lessons to be learned here, that's for sure!

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2339 on: December 22, 2015, 08:54:57 AM »
That sounds like an article I want to read.. Especially in Indian which is very very male oriented.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2340 on: December 22, 2015, 07:05:40 PM »
A lot of early societies and ones that have had no, or little, contact with Christian colonialism were/are matriarchal. They had women gods and women had the authority of governance, economics and religion. In the Iroquois Native American nation here in North America, there were women's councils who could veto going to war. Many tribes were matrilineal with the matriarch's son becomes the chief.  The house and all that goes with it were the women's responsibility and husbands came to live in the bride's house with her family. If he misbehaved, according to the bride or her family, they simply put his belongings outside the house and that's the end of the "marital" relationship, unless he negotiated a settlement.

Many Nat Am women had authority that their counterparts in Europe never had. So much for "western civilization" being superior!

Jean

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2341 on: December 23, 2015, 09:01:11 AM »
I have Mohawk, New York type in my early genealogy. 1600's... A male Dutchman married a Mohawk woman, received an Island north of Schenectady and lived at least part of the time in her mothers house..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2342 on: December 23, 2015, 09:18:19 AM »
OMG, THERE's our connection!

My mother was from a pre-revolutionery war clan of mostly Irish in waaaaaay upper state New York.  She grew up in Au Sable Forks and Jay.  Her great grandmother was a woman named Phoebe Collier and HER mother was a Mohawk squaw!  There ya go!

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2343 on: December 23, 2015, 11:35:34 AM »
Barb, I some how missed you poster of "hope." Very nice. I've had a terrible 2015, (lost two siblings, had an enervating sinus infection along with a uti, two sprained feet from a fall) so I'm HOPING for a better 2016!  ;D :D

Jean

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2344 on: December 23, 2015, 11:59:24 AM »
I came across a speech by Elizabeth Cady Stanton that I had not read before. I loved this paragraph and thought you might too. The 19th century writing of elongated sentences is a bit difficult for our 21st century brains to get used to, but I love her thinking. The speech is titled "Solitude of the Soul".

"The strongest reason for giving woman all the opportunities for higher education, for the full development of her faculties, forces of mind and body; for giving her the most enlarged freedom of thought and action; a complete emancipation from all forms of bondage, of custom, dependence, superstition; from all the crippling influences of fear, is the solitude and personal responsibility of her own individual life. The strongest reason why we ask for woman a voice in the government under which she lives; in the religion she is asked to believe; equality in social life, where she is the chief factor; a place in the trades and professions, where she may earn her bread, is because of her birthright to self-sovereignty; because, as an individual, she must rely on herself. No matter how much women prefer to lean, to be protected and supported, nor how much men desire to have them do so, they must make the voyage of life alone, and for safety in an emergency they must know something of the laws of navigation. To guide our own craft, we must be captain, pilot, engineer; with chart and compass to stand at the wheel; to match the wind and waves and know when to take in the sail, and to read the signs in the firmament over all. It matters not whether the solitary voyager is man or woman.

Nature having endowed them equally, leaves them to their own skill and judgment in the hour of danger, and, if not equal to the occasion, alike they perish.

Merry Christmas!

Jean

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2345 on: December 24, 2015, 07:31:48 AM »
You are right, The run on sentence is way way too long for me..
MaryPage.. Jacque Astonissen Van Slyck was the son of Corneis Astonissen Van Slyck and Alstock an Indian woman, who according to early records was the daughter of the head of the Mohawk tribe around Schenectady
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2346 on: December 24, 2015, 09:59:52 AM »
Oh my, they were way down state, as far as my people were concerned, albeit down in Manhattan they call that upstate.  My Mohawks were in The North Country along Lake Champlain.  To and over the Canadian border.  Of course, their country knew no borders such as we know them.  Pretty much Clinton (!) and Essex counties today.

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2347 on: December 24, 2015, 12:54:28 PM »
Oh my gosh, you just reminded me of an author I read decades ago - Helen Van Slyke. Did anyone else read her? I loved her books. Great family relationship stories. I was so sorry when I had read them all. Maybe I'll go back and reread them.

Have a good day and everyone be safe.

Jean

CallieOK

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2348 on: December 24, 2015, 05:55:00 PM »
Jean, I loved Helen Van Slyke, too - and haven't read anything by her in just about as long.  I wonder if her books are even available any more.

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2349 on: December 25, 2015, 01:23:16 AM »
There are only 8 in our library now. I know they had more before. They must be culling their shelves.

Jean

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2350 on: December 26, 2015, 01:05:43 PM »
Some of the language used in this is a bit of an ouch but I do think it is important for us to know there are some young men who have it figured out - from the blog of my 24 year old grandson... He did not write the exchange but did publish it on his blog in solidarity.

mycatsneezeslikealot asked: if men and women should have equal rights then why are you against men wanting rights? feminism isn't about women being better then men is it?...

w3f3k: im against men complaining about wanting ‘mens rights’ because it’s never about wanting anything other than to silence and talk over women.

if men’s rights activists worked to open crisis centers for male victims of abuse and survivors of sexual violence i would love that. if men’s rights activists worked toward support and parenting classes and education for single fathers that would be amazing. if men’s rights activists worked toward educating fellow men on practicing safe sex and consent i would be so on board. if men’s rights activists worked toward breaking down the chains of racism of their brothers of colour i would be so happy. if men’s rights activists advocated for anything of value i would be so down for it all.

instead men’s rights activists sit on the fucking internet talking over women and attempting to silence them and their oppression with arbitrary add-ons, bullshit about the friendzone, and useless fucking nonsense.

so no. i have zero use for men’s rights activists because it’s never about advocating for things men need and instead it’s always about making sure women shut up about what they need. they aren’t “men’s rights activists” they’re “anti women activists”. point blank.

finally feminism is not about women being better than men nor is it about being equal to men. feminism is about women being liberated from men. i have no desire to be considered “equal” to the system of power that allows men to abuse, murder, and rape us. i want liberation from patriarchy and men.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2351 on: December 26, 2015, 02:03:22 PM »
AMEN!

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2352 on: December 26, 2015, 06:05:01 PM »
I've just read this article from New Zealand about Jimmy Carter and women's rights.  Interesting, if true.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/losing-my-religion-for-equality-20090714-dk0v.html?stb=fb
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2353 on: December 26, 2015, 06:20:34 PM »
Yes, he has a book out about it - read it last year... should be available in most libraries.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2354 on: December 27, 2015, 12:46:06 PM »
Yes, Jimmy between Roslyn and his mother is a strong womans rights person.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2355 on: December 28, 2015, 09:57:06 AM »
I have been loudly applauding Jimmy Carter for YEARS now for his constant and consistent attitude that women deserve equality in every way.

And oh, how I loved his mother, Miss Lillian!  Few of us are HER equal, and that's a fact!

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2356 on: December 28, 2015, 02:19:40 PM »
I've always been told my paternal gm was a descendant of the Mohawk tribe in upstate NY.  When I worked on the Iroquois Native American reservation in western NY (and they are their own nation), I told the director of my lineage and she warned me not to tell anyone on the Seneca Reservation about it.  When I asked why (since they were both part of the Iroquois Confederacy) all she would say was that the Mohawk weren't well-liked because they were very 'war-like'.

Many years later, when my SIL began a geneology search, I went on an Iroquois paper site and discovered - to my horror - that the Mohawk were indeed war-like; they fought everyone...to the point that on at least two occasions, they nearly anhiliated themselves - down to about 200-300 people....and then decided they were losing because they had stopped eating their enemies, and resumed making sacrifices of captives and eating them in honoring their gods.

Actually not far off from our practice of harvesting body parts, utilizing fetal cells in many products, and throwing dead unborn babies into trash dumps (Ohio).  Maybe we're really more savage than we like to admit!

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2357 on: December 29, 2015, 08:59:19 AM »
The Mohawks in the Schenectady area were first quite peaceful, but then when more and more people came, they declared war.. There was at least one massacre and two where they took children and raised them as tribal members, so early Schenectady genealogy gets quite interesting at times.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2358 on: January 05, 2016, 01:19:46 PM »
Many of the Iroquois wars were 'mourning wars': captives would be tortured and, those who endured would either be killed or adopted, depending on the decision of the clan mother whose member was being avenged.  And they did adopt others, who either came voluntarily or sometimes not.

At any rate, in my adult lifetime there seems to have been a growing tendency to view all accounts from Europeans as suspect and to idealize, or romanticize primitive cultures as more idyllic.  The same seems to be true of places like New Hebrides (Vanuatu), the islands featured in the musical 'South Pacific' based on Michener's 'Tales From the South Pacific', who also practiced cannibalism until Europeans came.

I would suppose that every culture, and person, has their 'hall of shame' from the past, not to say that they didn't also have many traits to be admired.  Multiculturalism should mention both.

Clan mothers did appoint chiefs (who were male) for life to the Iroquois Confederacy (and could remove them if desired), but there was still a division of labor present; women primarily in the home and fields, men hunting and fishing.  And there were plenty of wars going on - among Indian tribes as well as against Europeans.  Often a chief was appointed because they were the best warrior.  The land belonged to the entire tribe, though clan mothers distributed it to members recognized as part of their mother's clan.

The Christian faith had an influence on these peoples:

    "The Mohawk called themselves Ganiengehaka, or "people of the flint country." Their warriors, armed with flint arrows, were known to be overpowering; their enemies called them Mowak, meaning "man eaters."

In 1799, amidst the Christian missionary efforts, a revival of the ancient Longhouse religion developed. A Seneca known as Handsome Lake had spent much of his life in dissolute living and fell gravely ill when he was about 65 years old. He expected to die, but instead, he experienced a profound vision and recovered. Inspired, he began to spread the Good Word among his fellow Iroquois. The New Religion was essentially a revitalization of the ancient pagan beliefs, although some Quaker influence can be detected.

Major tenets of the New Religion included shunning of alcoholic beverages, abandonment of beliefs in witchcraft and love potions, and denunciation of abortion. The fact that Handsome Lake's message had come in a dream gave it a profound impact among the Haudenosaunee. The religion was instrumental in showing many Iroquois how to retain their own culture while adapting to a world dominated by non-Indians."

The Seneca Nation near-by have both a Christian and Longhouse side.  A 'nation within a nation', they have had - and continue to have - problems with NYS.  For instance, NYS is concerned about a loss of revenue due to the selling of tobacco products and gasoline on the reservation.  They have tried to get the Indians to collect the state tax, which they refuse to do.  Other methods were equally resisted.  Now you have to estimate (or use a formula) how much you purchase from the reservation and pay the tax on your annual income tax. Gambling establishments have also been a source of contention.

Neither gender, nor any culture/government are perfect.  There is no 'heaven on earth'.  At best, I think, we can learn from the past and from one another - learn to forgive one another - and work together to respect all people(s). 

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2359 on: January 05, 2016, 02:52:38 PM »
mogamom...  You wrote "Neither gender, nor any culture/government are perfect.  There is no 'heaven on earth'.  At best, I think, we can learn from the past and from one another - learn to forgive one another - and work together to respect all people(s). "

Amen - and would that we could/would do just that!
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."