Author Topic: Women's Issues (Read 380197 times)

Steph · « **Reply #480 on:** May 02, 2013, 08:02:21 AM »

Women's Issues

If Art imitates Life, what does Literature show about the place of women in our society? From the Red Tent to the new movie Anna Karenina, to Malala Yousafzai in the news, has the state of women changed? What IS the state of women today, in your opinion?

Let's talk about how women are portrayed in the press, and in literature, and how accurate it is. How does advertising reflect, if it does, how women are portrayed? (Remember heels and pearls to sell refrigerators?)

How does it seem to you that women are portrayed today?

Let's talk!

National Women's History Project

Give a four year old a gun and he shoots his baby sister. What are people thinking. Ignorant..

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #481 on:** May 02, 2013, 07:17:05 PM »

Oh Steph you are thinking from the viewpoint of a more crowded area of the country - kids are shown more gun safety in rural areas than any buying a gun in a city or small town where there is no gun culture - there are acres and acres of wild and there are still many a family who does not shop at the butcher store. I lived in Kentucky for over 12 years. Most of it - especially the eastern half is more empty than the area where you have a house in NC. In Kentucky there are still small communities that you can only get out when the creeks are low since there are no roads and the creek bed becomes the road out.

kidsal · « **Reply #482 on:** May 03, 2013, 07:16:58 AM »

In Wyoming anyone can own a gun but must take a safety course before applying for a hunting license. I believe if you asked any parent the night before an accidental gun shooting if they had instructed their child about gun safety they would say Yes.

MaryPage · « **Reply #483 on:** May 03, 2013, 09:04:53 AM »

A FOUR YEAR OLD?

Do you really think of it as a sensible and SAFE thing to give a 4 year old a gun that can KILL people and tell them the rules and expect their vast life experience to make them UNDERSTAND them?

That to me is insanity, pure and simple. No excuse. A four year old is a 4 year old.

No boy should be handed a gun before he is 12 and beginning to really understand the world and his place in it and what responsibility is.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #484 on:** May 03, 2013, 01:17:45 PM »

Then children should probably be prevented from ranging cattle as well since kids help out before they are in first grade and in some cases they better have a gun with them. It is just a different mindset and until we are in the shoes of other folks we can only use our ideas of what is right and wrong and how people live. What works in some areas of this country does not work in others -

I am hearing and reading how those in the northeast are wanting a Federal mandate because they are concerned that a state law will not prevent guns from being purchased in those states where the laws are not limiting - and so you make a Federal law and then we have another cartel that will grow quickly in Mexico and like trafficking drugs guns will be uncontrolled with no tax revenue and no oversight to their manufacture.

The news is filled with who has a gun because of the young men who have caused death and havoc in this nation at schools, movie theaters, restaurants, parades - If you notice the newspapers are now filled with stories of how guns played a part in a crime or accident - While nothing is written about how cars that cause 20 times the deaths nor, how often the use of a gun saved someone or, how when we took guns away from a particular population they had no way to defend themselves and children are among those shot and killed e.g.

300 unarmed Lakota men, women and children killed in 1890 -
Armed volunteers killed around 150 Indian men, women and children 1832 -
65 people including 35 women and children in San Antonio 1840 -
Miners killed 300 Wintu Indians near Old Shasta, California 1851 -
A posse of settlers attack and kill 450 Tolowa Indians during prayer ceremony in California
White settlers killed between 200 and 250 Wiyot women, children and elders in Humboldt County, California 1860 -
Colorado Militia attacked a peaceful village of Cheyenne, killing at least 160 men, women and children at Sand Creek 1864 -
18+ Chinese killed by mob violence in California 1871
Indian scouts killed 76 Yavapai Indians men, women and children in a cave in Arizona's Salt River Canyon 1872 -
Several wagonloads of Sioux killed by South Dakota Home Guard militiamen, while visiting a white friend in Buffalo Gap. 1890
19 of 1,200 striking coal miners and their families killed in Colorado 1914

Not to say there were no gun battles where both sides citizens, union members, police or militia all had guns - I am simply showing how when guns are limited to certain groups the power is unequal -

As for children - there are children that go to school in an environment where they have no need to protect themselves from wildlife or to shoot dinner and then there are others where that is a way of life so that a national attitude is not something any of us can judge unless we have lived in the shoes of these families.

Frankly I do not know the answer to city violence - I do not see limiting guns will stop the violence since it will be as easy to get a gun as it is now to get crack cocaine which illegal. And these young men who have created these shocking unbelievable mass murders - there are quite a few of them now - there must be something at the bottom of what allows a very few young man out of all the thousands in the same age range with as much anger to commit these crimes.

Street violence we know has something to do with either the drug culture or gangs who create guerrilla warfare in their community but these middle class kids - what is this about. Thousands of teens own or have access to guns and do not use them on other people.

Steph · « **Reply #485 on:** May 03, 2013, 02:34:17 PM »

Not on subject, but does anyone remember Sexty Sixty, who is Lorraine.. B----. She is on Facebook and seems to be havge a recurrence of cancer. She successfully beat Breast Cancer some years ago on Senior Net, but it is back or seems to be. A nice funny lady.

MaryPage · « **Reply #486 on:** May 05, 2013, 05:58:06 PM »

Do not remember ever hearing of her, Steph.

Re Women's Issues, you will want to read "A Quiet Strength: Inspirational Stories of Older American Women" by Joanne Alloway.

Steph · « **Reply #487 on:** May 06, 2013, 07:52:49 AM »

I know that MaryZ keeps up with her on facebook and some others from senior net do as well.

maryz · « **Reply #488 on:** May 06, 2013, 10:29:50 AM »

Steph, the cancer Lorraine is dealing with this time is in her lungs, I think. She had a bronchoscopy last week, but I don't know much more than that.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #489 on:** May 07, 2013, 08:30:14 AM »

Remember...

MaryPage · « **Reply #490 on:** May 07, 2013, 08:44:49 AM »

Followed by the basket full of ironing.

And ladies did not wear slacks, no matter their workload.

Steph · « **Reply #491 on:** May 07, 2013, 08:53:21 AM »

I used to dry clothes on the line, but never had a piece of timber. Just a narrow stick with a notch.. Actually I love the smell, but have lived years in Florida, where it is rarely permitted.

jane · « **Reply #492 on:** May 07, 2013, 10:18:30 AM »

I recall my Mom had a pole with a notched point on it...and I remember the days when the line would break, the clothes would fall...and she'd have to do many of them all over again. The "good old days"...yeah, right!!

I assume you've all heard of the 3 young women held captive for 10 years in a house in Cleveland and one who had a child during that time:

http://www.windstream.net/news/read/category/Top%20News/article/ap-2_women_missing_for_a_decade_found_alive-ap

maryz · « **Reply #493 on:** May 07, 2013, 11:37:34 AM »

I remember doing it - diapers and all - no pole to hold up the line, though. I had the iron T-poles with several lines between them. I haven't had a clothesline or dried clothes outside since I was able to afford a dryer. And I quit ironing when they invented permanent press.

Steph · « **Reply #494 on:** May 08, 2013, 08:11:29 AM »

Depressing this morning onwomen.. Sanford of South Carolina got elected.. After he lied in public deceived his wife and children and shamed himself. Ah, the joys of a career politician.Shame on his constituents. Then the three women held captive.. What are the men..Animals from a jungle.. To steal a womans life.. To force her into having a childn against all that's normal..
and finally the Armed Services announcing that sexual abuse is rising steadily in the Armed Services.. We have not gone far from the jungle.

jane · « **Reply #495 on:** May 08, 2013, 09:15:37 AM »

Did you see the pic of the Lt.Col in charge of investigating sexual assault was himself arrested for sexual assault last weekend after an "incidence" in a parking lot.

maryz · « **Reply #496 on:** May 08, 2013, 09:52:50 AM »

Yesterday was an amazing news day for women.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #497 on:** May 08, 2013, 11:16:44 AM »

And it's not like military men haven't been taught "better." Shortly after i went to work for Dept of Army in the mid-EIGHTIES, i was trained to be a trainer in Prevention of Sexual Harrassment. From that point on all army and navy personnel, military and civilian were given training in POSH. I don't know what was happening in the other services, but my guess is they were supposed to be doing it also.

I was stunned when i heard about the Navy blow-up in the nineties at the "tailhook" conference. Apparently the Army was the only service really taking it seriously. I think it is indicative of the still prevalent idea that women are on earth for men's sexual gratification, when men want it, and women are "teases", and are likely to lie about assaults, and are still a joke among men. And even women will adopt the attitude that "boys will be boys." i do believe that it is men's responsibility to control themselves, but i also am appalled at the way women are dressing these days. It's difficult sometimes to tell the streetwalkers for those who aren't. Of course, in the military everyone is wearing a uniform and it's very evident that there sexual assault is all about power.

We really have the officer corps to blame for the prevention program not working. Whatever the command emphasizes is what gets taken care if in the military. It's unbelievable to me that general officers can override a decision of guilt and punishment. It has always been a problem that women have to report incidents up their chain of command, often to friends of their predators. But if the men in the chain would make it clear that that behavior was unacceptable, it could be vanquished. We love Top Gun-type stories, or praise Seal Team Six-type operations, but that kind of arrogance and superior power attributes to those men carrying that attitude outside the operations field. I suppose it takes a very mentally healthy man to be able to turn that on and off, but if they thought it would jeopardize they're careers, they would be very careful about their behaviors. The Command is the unit that makes that happen.

Jean

MaryPage · « **Reply #498 on:** May 08, 2013, 05:05:24 PM »

I figure the people get what they deserve when they vote, so, disappointed deeply about Sanford, I sort of feel what the hell.

But the Air Force thing has me crazy.

That, plus the 3 kidnapped sex slaves, show how far we have NOT come in this country. In this culture. In this "civilization."

Hoorah for that wonderful senator from New York, Kirsten Gillibrand . Did you see and hear her dressing down those stupid, stupid male senators? They were saying the women were asking for it! Same old, same old.

I really was naive enough when I was young and doing all that work and demonstrating to believe I would be sitting on my laurels loving the taste of sweet victory by age 70. Here I am, 84 this month, and nothing much has really changed. Certainly most men's minds work in precisely the same patterns.

kidsal · « **Reply #499 on:** May 09, 2013, 06:02:17 AM »

I was in the Air Force during the Korean War. Remember that I was looked after -- warned about certain men. If a man drove you home and parked too long outside the barracks the Air Police came by to see if all OK. Different time.

Steph · « **Reply #500 on:** May 09, 2013, 09:48:34 AM »

The kidnapped women in the neighborhood bother me.. Was no one ever in his house?? No noises, or screaming?? Did he keep them chained or something?? This is truly a weird situation..

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #501 on:** May 09, 2013, 11:26:57 AM »

Steph we are always second guessing how we could miss any horror - victims hardly ever make sounds - just as you are not aware of the spouse battering in your own neighborhood - just as when you attend a large gathering we do not stop and think and realize that between 2 and 4 according to which statistic you use, but 2 to 4 out of every 10 women present were or are still sexually abused. Most victims are trying to control their circumstances and think if they cause little problem and quietly go along they will fare better - unfortunately, most authorities see this behavior as cooperative rather then self protective.

Since the guy who helped release the girls, battered his wife and was charged with the crime a few years earlier I bet it was a neighborhood where folks minded their own business if and when they heard anything from any house. However, the neighbors that did know these guys said it was a quiet house and they were quiet guys so it sounds to me like when the girls were young teens they were too frightened to make any sound and later they had no idea if there was anyone to hear them and they probably turned inward always trying to figure out how to control their situation.

My gut tells me the one girl got the nerve to do what she did because I bet she saw her daughter as the next victim and she was not going to let that happen if she had to die in the attempt.

Steph · « **Reply #502 on:** May 10, 2013, 08:47:04 AM »

Yes, I too believe that she looked at her daughter, saw victim and acted.. One of the women seems to be quite ill.. And very mistreated. If he really did the things she said to cause a miscarriage, he deserves the death penalty..

mabel1015j · « **Reply #503 on:** May 10, 2013, 12:35:18 PM »

This situation is going to create a major discussion about abortion and could be disatrous for Roe v. Wade. If he is charged w/ the murder if the fetuses, what implication does that have for legal abortions? I heard one person say on the first day of knowing he had beat her to abort that Ohio has some sort of law to charge people who cause the killing of a fetus. ............ Ohhhhhh, is this 1971? ........is nothing ever settled?

I guess not, just saw that the House Repubs are bringing up repeal of Obamacare once more - 39 or 40th time!!!! Is the country just going nuts!?? I have said often "the aliens have tainted the water" as a joke, but i'm getting more and more serious about it.

Jean

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #504 on:** May 10, 2013, 01:10:20 PM »

Republicans since the 1930s have been trying to revoke any social initiative that Roosevelt enacted - they just have more money behind them now and they bought the media - all the national TV stations are owned by Republicans and they have been nipping at the heals of PBS pulling their financial support for the last 16 years. And with the debacle on wall street making them richer they can support any candidate that is to their liking. Have you noticed those elected to the House and now even the Senate no longer have a law degree in their resume - not that they needed a law degree it is just that only the smartest folks get into law school.

I think some of this is tit for tat - in that there is a big social divide between both coasts and the rest of the nation and with the greater population on the coasts the attitudes are not taking into account how people live in the interior of the nation and so they get their back up and become more and more conservative.

MaryPage · « **Reply #505 on:** May 10, 2013, 11:50:57 PM »

I think it would help a lot if we just quit allowing the baboon brains to hold elected office.
But the males of our species insist upon playing by the rules of gorillas and other apes.
Fight other males for the privilege of OWNING females.
Kill the young of the other males, so only your seed will spread out over territories.
Allow any sort of boorish behavior on the part of rogue males, but cuff or kill any females who show the least bit of independence.
WHEN are the male heads of the Joint Chiefs and the Department of Defense going to stop thinking about protecting their officers and non-commissioned officers and closing ranks around them when they are accused of sexual assault, and instead think about the ACCUSERS? Do any of them have daughters? I know, I know. The male does not rush to protect his daughter out of love for her, but out of anger that another male has approached her without his, the father's, permission!
Women take this to be parental love, but it most often is not. It is, instead, another very primitive instinct: "get your hands off my property!"
We would have a much better and safer armed services if brutish men who drink too much and assault women were removed. Weeded out. We DO NOT NEED THEM. And have the chiefs ever considered that such men are much, much bigger security risks? Drunk and disorderly, they may say anything in the wrong ear. And tell national secrets to female spies in order to get sexual favors. Decent sober men who would not dream of insulting women verbally or physically are the ones most likely to safeguard our country's secrets.
But no, the moment there is a complaint, the woman complaining becomes an unwanted problem. The male beast must be protected at all costs.
I am very proud of our local DA who, when asked by the Pentagon to turn over the officer in charge of investigating sexual assaults when he was drunk and disorderly in a parking lot recently and grabbed an unknown to him woman by her breasts and buttocks, refused to do so. Which is the right of any non-military law officer. But in this case, the chief law official IS A WOMAN. So he will be tried in a civilian court! Woo hoo!

MaryPage · « **Reply #506 on:** May 11, 2013, 12:00:31 AM »

In case they are not telling you the whole story wherever you live, here it is. Do, please, read it all and you will see what I am talking about. July 18 he goes to a civilian court!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/military-could-learn-from-cops-in-sexual-assault-cases/2013/05/09/2b185ccc-b8a1-11e2-b94c-b684dda07add_story.html

Steph · « **Reply #507 on:** May 11, 2013, 08:28:14 AM »

To get back to Cleveland, the deliberate beating and torture of her should not be construed as akin to legal abortion. Has no relationship. The intent here could be to murder her as well and should be prosecuted as such.
The Armed Forces attract violent men.. It is probably hard to weed them out.

MaryPage · « **Reply #508 on:** May 11, 2013, 09:09:59 AM »

Again, the whole abortion matter is a headline issue because of men. It is they who jump up and down and carry on about it as though fixing this world so that no female of any age or infirmity or life situation could ever, ever, ever abort a fetus and miscarriages would all be examined carefully and legally by law officers to ascertain there has been no breach of the laws pertaining to the bodies and wombs of females, is the one and only question of great importance pertaining to the safety and well-being of this nation and the world; guns being the next in order.
Real foreign affairs and ecological dangers and engineering deficiencies and capital budgets and educational opportunities and police protection and oversight of laws and regulations hold no center of importance in their blighted little brains. Keep each and every female from ever aborting, and you have settled all the questions and problems of this Universe.
Dear God! I am just so SICK of their stupid statements and their emotional obsessions that convince them, without ever examining their thoughts or emotions for so much as a nanosecond, that control of women will settle EVERYthing and make them the triumphant alpha male.

Steph · « **Reply #509 on:** May 12, 2013, 08:36:31 AM »

Ah possibly it is a genetic problem..

mabel1015j · « **Reply #510 on:** May 12, 2013, 12:56:16 PM »

Several thoughts run thru my mind this morning:

First, for those of you who have acted as a mother to any child thruout your lives, i hope you hear from them today of how much they appreciate you.

Second, the law doesn't have to link Castro's behavior to the issue of abortion. If a judge decides that he caused the aborting of her fetuses and should be charged with the death of "persons" as a result of his behavior, that creates a whole new definition of "murder" and whether an abortion "murders" a person. That creates a whole different status to anyone who assists in a women aborting a fetus.

Thirdly, i saw an enlightening program last night on BOOKTV of a panel of ex-priests, a survivor, an attorney and a man who has written a book, Mortal Sins, about the church's scandal of child abuse. The conversation could have been about the sexual abuse in the military, by just changing the words "church" and "bishops" to "military" and "officers." the cultures are exactly the same, the brotherhoods are exactly the same, the cover-ups are exactly the same, tHe hierarchical autocratic structure is exactly the same, the friends of abusers act exactly the same to protect their careers or the careers of others!!!

One of the interesting statements came from the atty and supported by an ex-Benedictine monk was "at any time fifty percent of clergy are not being celibate, whether they are having a relationship w/ a women, a man or a child." The monk definitively said, stating names that i don't remember, that because many in the clergy have been KNOWN to have had sexual relationships by so many other clergy, that it can be used as "institutional blackmail." when a bishsop in Tenn told a priest he was firing him, the priest said "i know that you had sex with seminarians, so if you fire me, i'll out you." (not a direct quote). Other young seminarians had told him of an archbishop in NJ who took a group of young seminarians to his beach house on the weekends and one of the five of them would be requested to have sex w/ the bishop each weekend. Sounds like an officer taking young soldiers somewhere and requesting sex.

Jean

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #511 on:** May 12, 2013, 01:16:50 PM »

Yep, agree fully Jean and the way the church reacted was a repeat of what you hear from nearly every perpetrator with the same 'not wanting to accept they did wrong' - their thoughts are never with the their victim only with their narcissistic selves that even after therapy they blame their behavior on their childhood experiences - problem, lots of kids are sexually abused as children but they do not all perpetrate their experience on other children. And all those who grew up with their moms being beat up don't go around beating up women.

Personally I think it is a testosterone issue - where ever their is a strong male culture there seems to be sexual abuse and sexual assaults - it seems to go hand and glove with aggressive sports and not only the military but any company that is male dominated with male aggressive competition at its heart. I am remembering a few years back when I was more involved volunteering at the battered women's center and attending sexual abuse 12 step meetings that the therapists in town had the most clients from the wives and children of servicemen, IBM employed and Ministers. In common they not only worked in a male dominated culture but they are moved around a lot so they had no roots, no calming hand of family, no deep connection to a community.

Moving and creating new community is different where you are trying to gain approval and acceptance so your secrets are kept secret which works for the perpetrator and also makes it harder for victims to find caring support that is not wanting to use the problem as a social chip - 'lookie here, I helped her' - or 'poor so and so' as the gossip is spread - they do not have knowledge of the victim's family so they can help knowing the victim's background nor can they approach a victim's trusted family member since the new friend knows neither.

Then reporting what happened to the police too often backfires and the victim is traumatized all over by those representing the perpetrator as they try to prove you wrong. The isolated, re-located family is pulled apart as the immediate family is split apart forced into separate living arrangements with mothers having to make a choice between being with a daughter and leaving her other children. Because it is the victim who is removed NOT the un-convicted perpetrator.

This is all very difficult - tear your gut apart difficult so that the public does not want to look at it - the public does not have the knowledge or skills to make it a quick, bam this is what you do to stop it or to protect and heal victims - there is no secure life at the end of the rainbow.

Steph · « **Reply #512 on:** May 14, 2013, 08:04:25 AM »

Hah.today I get on, but yesterday seniorlearn seemed to not want to let me reply. Very weird. Bachman says she will move out of the state if they passed the bill for same sex marriage. Who wants to help her pack??

jeriron · « **Reply #513 on:** May 14, 2013, 09:38:04 AM »

I will! But moving out of the country would be better.

jane · « **Reply #514 on:** May 14, 2013, 11:51:23 AM »

The things that come out of that woman's mouth are beyond belief.

Steph · « **Reply #515 on:** May 15, 2013, 08:41:55 AM »

I don't begin to understand people like her. I do think she will do literally anything to be in the papers.

MaryPage · « **Reply #516 on:** May 15, 2013, 09:25:00 AM »

This world is full of crazy mixed-up people. What I have an even bigger, oh, MUCH bigger problem with is What Are The People Voting Her Into This Important Office THINKING OF?
Now THAT, My Dears, is what scares the breath out of me!

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #517 on:** May 15, 2013, 10:21:45 AM »

Well if you, like the stock market inverstor want stability and predictability you got it in her

jane · « **Reply #518 on:** May 15, 2013, 11:09:42 AM »

Stability??? Uh...I don't think so, but that's just me. I think she's very unstable. Predictable? Yes!

If it's off the wall, if somehow anything anyone who is moderate or...gasp...to the left...might support, she's against it. The whole child becoming mentally retarded at age 12 after a vaccine that could save her life had to be the most incredibly stupid thing I've ever heard a politician say...uh...nope...not true...then there's the rape can't cause pregnancy....well...those have to be near the top of the 10 of Stupidest Things to Come Out of a Politician's Mouth.

jane

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #519 on:** May 15, 2013, 04:15:04 PM »

Yes, that is why the wink - the whole thing about her is ludicrous. To me ridiculing someone is more powerful rather than being upset with them which gives them a certain amount of cache that they. and their views matter enough that we would give them our power by being upset - I just think the more of us who ridicule this kind of over the top appeal to voters, who are thinking as if 1893 rather than 2013 the more we can get others to see her as a ridiculous non- entity she will sooner have no power to sway opinions. For the most part we have accomplished this tactic with Sarah Palin.

OK if you are like me, I had to pick myself up off the floor and kept falling back down crawling for over a day after watching the PBS special this week on sexual crimes in the military - so finally, we have Senators doing something - here is a link to the Bill - put together by Senators Franken, Blumenthal, Gillibrand, and Boxer - They need our support.

http://www.barbaraboxer.com/petitions/MSA?sc=KG_msa

News:

Author Topic: Women's Issues (Read 380197 times)