Women's Issues

[nlhome]

The Choice issue and birth control are big issues. But there are smaller things that make me sad also. My son was criticized by on of his superiors in the Army because he asked that his wife be better informed about what was happening with his unit when he was deployed to Afghanistan - he was told his wife, a senior in college in Wisconsin, should be there on the base in Georgia with the rest of the wives (in a place with no jobs and, for her, no support system for their daughter), rather than finish her degree. He supported his wife, and she graduated and is now employed down there. But to me it smacks of "women's place."

[Steph]

We are losing because doctors are getting lawsuit conscious and refuse to stand up and agree that an abortion clinic does not need all of the bells and whistles as a stand alone clinic or hospital. The hospitals are terrified of law suits and refuse priviledges to abortion providers.. Why  oh why do the medical people not stand up and let this stupidity go on..

[BarbStAubrey]

because pro-lifers are diligent with lawsuits that no one much less a doctor can afford the cost in money and time - they seem to have all the time in the world and they are backed by their group so money is no object. A doctor only has himself and his insurance that the premiums can go out of sight if the insurance is used.  

[MaryPage]

The funds, seemingly unlimited, of religious organizations are flowing into the anti-abortion campaign without cease.

[jane]

My son was criticized by on of his superiors in the Army because he asked that his wife be better informed about what was happening with his unit when he was deployed to Afghanistan - he was told his wife, a senior in college in Wisconsin, should be there on the base in Georgia with the rest of the wives (in a place with no jobs and, for her, no support system for their daughter), rather than finish her degree. He supported his wife, and she graduated and is now employed down there. But to me it smacks of "women's place."

That's a big thing, nlhome, and hurrah for them for doing something so wise for their future.  Your DIL getting her degree and being near a support system is absolutely the right thing.  You'd think military officers would have figured out what is important these days, given the way some of our young soldiers come back from Afghanistan.  A wife with a degree could be the difference between living poorly and with a chance.  Again, you obviously did a very good job raising a young man who thinks!!

jane

[Steph]

Ah, the Army never changes.. Dependents are like sheep. They need to be corralled and kept in one place together. How stupid and old.

[MaryPage]

Well basically, it is that all women are useless except in the kitchen and the bed.  And they need to be WITH their husbands to provide the kitchen and bed functions.  What the hell is the use of educating a female, for crying out loud?  And what do our men marry them for, anyway?  Certainly not to have them elsewhere filling up their minds with stuff they'll never need for what they're good for:  the kitchen and the bed.

I really drilled it into my daughters and granddaughters that FIRST they needed to get a full education and a profession.  Whatever profession they found a passion for would do, but become the best you can be at that and you have an insurance policy for your and your children's future.

So they listened to me!  And I got 2 teachers, a nurse, a bookkeeper and a vet.

And all but 1 of the 13 granddaughters did equally well.  You win some and you lose some.  Here's to the future of our fair sex.

[Steph]

MaryPage, you did good.. No question about it. I only have sons, but they both were taught early and often that woman are of the same value as men and treat their wives and associates with equal praise and connections.

[mabel1015j]

Yes! Good job MaryPage.

We must thank the universe/goddess/god/mother nature/luck - whatever your preference - that we aren't in the record books as having the most children! How about 69? That record has some doubters, but the woman who had 37 single births and a set of twins is not in doubt! WTH! she was married to a doctor, an obvious sex addict/abuser/masochist and one who knew nothing about birth control, or the reproductive system, or abstinence! can you imagine? She must have been pregnant all of the time! Another reason to celebrate Margret Sanger's birthday on Sept 14!

From "History Witch" blog ........the title is "you can say no", but unfortunately we've probably known some women who couldn't, or feared to. These record-setting women must have been afraid to say no.

http://historywitch.com/2013/07/18/you-can-say-no/

[Steph]

Think of the Texas family who kept having and having more children, until she kept miscarrying. Now one of their children is married and seems to be having a baby a year. But it keeps them on reality TV.. Reality Tv has a lot of horror stories to be responsible for.

[MaryPage]

It is quite obvious that the human race does not for a nanosecond realize the peril it is in as a species because we insist upon having so many children.
The scientists know.  They are quite stoic about it.  We are going to be extinct, is what I hear them admitting on television.  No one watches those programs.

[Steph]

Ah, but that is mostly the old bugaboo.. religion.. I do read quite a lot about the fact that the bright educated couples are not having more than one child. The multitudes are coming from the uneducated. not a good sign, I am told.

[BarbStAubrey]

Yep, the un-educated the result is poverty or just on the fringe edge of the middle class who need free health care that planned parenthood provided who cling to their religion as their only solace and hope or the traditions that are intrenched in the family that were patriarchal heavy and have no money for decent legal aid and the women are regularly raped on the job and then many a husband demands so that for any peace or ability to fight for the big stuff the women goes along.

With more folks being pushed into poverty and less opportunity for higher ed because of cost - we are making up for the undocumented folks that used to do the work they want the folks in poverty to do who are not trained nor live in a climate where high heat and back breaking labor is normal -

So we are doing ourselves in with fewer educated citizens and more poverty, that the cost of assisting through government is far more expensive and now, more kids to keep the merry-go-round oiled. Looks like the army and navy will have more volunteers than they can finance and the folks investing in private jails will make a killing especially if the war on drugs continues and now we have them pushing for women to do jail time if they have an abortion. We already have women being jailed for protecting themselves from abusive husbands with similar force to their abuser.

[mabel1015j]

I haven't commented on the Zimmerman case, altho i have strong emotions about it, because others are doing a superb job of it. But let me just comment on the president's speech yesterday. In case any person thinks he was exaggerating the events that have happened to him, let me just say that everyone inour interracial family, including me, has had similar experiences.

They range from when my future DH and i were leaving his development in southern New Jersey, pulling out from a stop sign, so we couldn't have been driving too fast and Van (DH) said he saw the police car coming, so he was being extra careful. The cop stopped us, ask for Van's ID, where did he live? Even tho he had his license in his hand. Asked where were we going? Which, of course, was of no consequence, but Van said he was taking me to Philly. Cop asked where did i live - again, of no consequence. Van asked why we were stopped, cop said he was speeding, which was impossible. Then, even though it was just dusk and he could see me perfectly well, the cop came around to my side of the car and shone the flashlight in my face. He gave Van a "warning" which was really a warning about being with a white woman.

My dgt when driving her college boyfriend to the Trenton train station in her father's Diamante, a lower end luxury car, was followed down a Trenton street and into the parking lot of the train station. The boyfriend was about 6'2" and with them was a young man we had as a foster child who was about 6' and 250 lbs of muscle, he was a weight lifter. The cop told them to stay in the car and asked for her license and the car registration. He asked where they were going??? She said she was taking Nick to get the train. Who were the guys in the car? Whose car was it? Why were they in Trenton??? Then he walked around to ask for Nick's ID and saw he had on a Marine Corps shirt. Asked if he was a Marine, Nick said yes, and he said o.k. and left. The only explanation was that he thought these 3 young Black people should not have been driving that car.  Pure harassment!

My son, a good student and well-known athlete, closed his eyes one day in class, the teacher asked him, in front of the class, if he was on drugs! He was furious! He has never even smoked a cigarette.

Friends of the same son stopped in front of our house one evening to unload a bike of a friend from the trunk of the car. Included in the group were 2 football players, 3 basketball players and the president of the junior class, all young Black men, none had ever been in trouble. I mention the athletes because we are a town of about 25,000, the police know the trouble-makers, but they also come to the games and know of the athletes and all of these boys where frequent visitors to the recreation center which is onthe same municiple property as the police dept and the police frequent it also. While they were unloading Anthony's bike, a police car pulled up behind the old white Plymouth with lights whirling. Within 3 minutes there was another police car and the K-9 truck and before the discussion ended a third police car was there. So neighbors were out to see what was going on. This was a neighborhood that was 85% Black, so it was not even that the cops were seeing these young men in the "wrong place."

The police asked what was happening - "we're dropping Anthony off to play basketball." "Whose bike is it?" Anthony's. "Anthony, what is the serial number on your bike!?!"  Really??? I'm sure you've all had bikes growing up, do any of you know the serial numbers? "Where do you live?" (to each one) Our foster son had on a varsity jacket that had belonged to his cousin from another town, they asked him 3 times, why do you have on a "Boro" jacket?

My husband went out and asked what was the problem, said he knew these boys, they were good boys, not problems. The police responded that there was a report of a white cadillac creating a problem on Main St - 5 blocks away, AND this white plymouth looked nothing like a cadillac!

These were all boys who had been taught to respect authority, but all those cops did that night was to say to them, no matter who you are we will always suspect you because you have dark skin and will feel free to harass you when we please.

Now the irony is that that son and dgt of ours now have a cousin who is a NJ State Trooper and my dgt has a very good college friend who is also a NJ State Trooper. That is progress and i hope they are raising the conscience of the other troopers.

I just wanted to make it clear that when you hear any person of color speak about these experiences, they are not exaggerating or just repeating stories they've heard from others, and it is not just in the cities, or in the South, or to the poor. This is a suburban Philly town that was named the best place to live in the u.s. by Money Magizine about 7 yrs ago!!!  They have ALL been in similar situations.

One other point, i think the prosecution missed an opportunity to have the 6 women jury identify with Treyvon Martin, what woman has not been on the street in a fearful situation for what negative event might happen to her? Such is life for people of color and women in this world. I am not saying that white men have not sometimes been in frightening situations, but i am sure it has not been as often or as scary for them as for us.

[kidsal]

Having lunch yesterday with two women from my old workplace and the one woman's mother (89 years).  The mother commented on the Hispanic waitress - noting she probably wasn't from the US - another illegal.  I said that she might have been born here.  The interesting note is that her daughter's friend sitting across from her is Hispanic and she has known her for so long it doesn't occur to her

[MaryPage]

Jean, I totally believe you.  I KNOW it is true.  All true.
And in my heart, I wanted Zimmerman to be found guilty of at least manslaughter.  But I also knew it could not be.  Not unless it could be proved beyond reasonable doubt that it was, in fact, Zimmerman on top and Martin screaming.
I think of Zimmerman as a puffed up, bigoted bully with no judgment whatsoever.  I think of Martin as a kid who went to the store to get some sweets.  I think of his death as an American Tragedy.
When will we learn?  My mind drifts back constantly to the many young black martyrs we have had.  Emmett Till.  Many others.  The superiority of those at the top of the pecking order is a disease of the human species.  It seems to be in our and the genes of other mammals and birds.
Guns are like penises, the mark of a MAN and the insurance the man in possession will triumph.  Men can rule that women must have ultrasounds and no abortions, but they have been unable to rule that pedophiles and rapists be castrated.  OH MY GAWD NO!  To take away their manhood would be the ultimate sin!
Yet they can take away our womanhood and our dominion over our own bodies.
The jury could not find Zimmerman guilty because of the items which must be present in Florida for a person, any person, to be found guilty of 2nd degree murder or of manslaughter.  They had to be able to declare each item present to find the manslaughter they obviously wanted to find.  They could not.
Florida needs to revise both gun laws, and guilty verdicts available.
This carrying of concealed weapons will become an ever more dire thing in our country.   I suggest we muse upon a future time when some Senator or billionaire's son takes a swing at a concealed gun carrier and gets shot to death.

[MaryPage]

Have any women in this nation besides me noticed there is and always has been a tremendous battle to prevent women from getting contraception, but the very MINUTE Viagra and the like hit the market, men were able to get it and get it paid for by their medical insurances?

I just wonder.  As I wonder, always, why it is that there are more women than there are men, and more women voters than there are men, and simply heaps of men on our side, and yet we do not RISE UP and remedy this ridiculous situation!  Scheesch!

[mabel1015j]

I agree MaryPage and i should have said that i think the jury probably decided in the only way they could legally. I thought the prosecution did not do a very good job, but i don't have all the facts of what they could ir could not work with, and there was definitely reasonable doubt. My emotion is based on knowing the reality that if the races had been reversed in the situation that the Black man who killed a white teenager would have surely been convicted; that i have worried about my Black young men family members finding themselves in similar situations; that, in my opinion, that Trayvon was "standing his ground" and that if Zimmerman had nit had a gun, no one would be dead.

Also, the irony of there being, in the same state, a Black woman who shot into the ceiling to scare off her abuser is in jail for TWENTY yrs! No one was hurt! She was in fear for her life! The stereotypes overwhelmed the facts in both of those cases.

We must not overlook the death of Helen Thomas. What a courageous and gutsy and colorful woman she was. I read her biography many years ago. I don't remember the title or author, but her life is a good read if you can find a bio of her.

[Steph]

I remember when a friend of mine wanted her tubes tied in the 70's and the gyn insisted that she bring in her husband to sign for this. I was outraged.. But then my husband decided he wanted a vasectomy and his doctor insisted I come in and sign.. So that was strange, but quite true.
Viagra.. good heavens, they give that out like candy and it is expensive.. Old rich guys adore it, I understand.. Can you imagine if the invented a pill that gave instant orgasm for females, They would outlaw it immediately.

[MaryPage]

My first husband and I had 3 daughters.  My second husband and I had one son.  He was also being father to and raising and supporting the 3 girls.  So we had 4 children and were struggling, not in dire poverty, but trying to keep up with braces and all the rest, and we decided we wanted for me to get my tubes tied.
Well, the doctor's committee at Suburban Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland voted against this ON THE BASIS that my husband only had one blood child and he might decide later that he wanted more children.  EVEN THOUGH David swore to them that he would NOT want any more children, thank you very much, and would sign off happily on my tube tying.
You see, the paternalistic attitude is there, and I swear it crowds out the fears of being sued later.  I mean, the signature of a college graduate should preclude any later saying he did not know what he was doing!
But they would have none of it.  They WOULD NOT tie my tubes, and I could not afford to shop around.

[Steph]

I know someone who had all the arrangements made in her local hospital to tie her tubes when her fourth child was born.She went into labor a month early, had the baby in a differen hospital and they would not tie her tubes. Sigh.

[maryz]

I had my tubes tied after our fourth baby (5th pregnancy).  John had to sign consent forms.  I was only 25, which was considered too young, except that I had had 5 pregnancies.  I'm sure that the fact that obstetrician was a dear family friend had something to do with his agreeing to do it.  After Jean was born, the 4th girl, he also asked both of us if we still wanted to do this, or if we wanted to continue to try for a boy.  Different times.

Later on,  when we had our first wills written, before signing, the attorney sent John out of the room and asked me if I was sure this was the way I wanted it written.  When I said "yes", John came back in, and we signed.  We always thought it was funny that they didn't do the same thing for John - i.e., made no provision for a hen-pecked husband.   

[BarbStAubrey]

Had to do the same thing when closing on buying a house - the husband left while the wife was very seriously had to raise her hand in front of a notary while being asked if this is what she wanted.

[jane]

I suppose the reasoning came from the situations I've heard of where the husband dies and the wife finds out they are  -- and now she--- is deeply in debt, the house is mortgaged with first and second mortgages to the hilt and the investments are all gone.  Turns out he had her signing papers she hadn't bothered to read...he "took care" of all their finances.  She found at 64 or so, she didn't have a dime or a place to live.

Sad.  

[MaryPage]

If you get your hands on the July 22, 2013 issue of THE NEW YORKER, be sure to read the article titled A RAISED HAND which starts on page 34 and is by Rachel Louise Snyder.
We must, we simply MUST, get more women judges and mayors and senators and congresswomen.  We must.

[Steph]

I have several friends who myhorror admitted they never even look at the income tax forms. just sign where their husband says sign.. Never ever ever sign anything you have not read. Whew..

[JoanK]

My husband used to sign the income tax forms I did without reading them, in spite of my protests.

[BarbStAubrey]

I think for many it is a matter of trust that is in question and if we look over the shoulder of one doing a task then that is inviting the other to look over our shoulder carrying out other tasks like grocery shopping or preparing the weeks food plan or how we mow or take care of the lawn or get involved in our work away from home and so we divide the work and trust each other.

[Steph]

Good heavens, Anthony Weiner is at it again and his wife, who is supposed to be a smart political op.. She chimes in with forgiveness, etc. Hopefully New York City will pick a end to his political ambitions..

[BarbStAubrey]

It appears he has a sex addiction and tried to stop cold turkey without any therapy. Like the wife of the kind of alcoholic who continues to work, she does not know the signs and may even think she is at fault since many addicts blame sexual dissatisfaction with their partner as the cause of their addiction just as the drunk has all sorts of reasons and blames his boss and his wife.

[Steph]

She talked of therapy, etc in the speech, but I still have problems with it.She was pregnant when he was first uncovered.. That alone would have made me seriously reconsider a marriage.

[BarbStAubrey]

Addicted people are very manipulative and have a way of saying with sincerity that is hard to doubt that the problem is under control and they love you - no different than someone who batters.

[Steph]

I would think that she works for Hillary and has for years, that she would see what damage that sort of political life can do to you..The only time you see Bill and Hillary together is for their daughter or a political occasion.

[MaryPage]

My guess is that he has lied like a trooper to her, and been manipulative as all get out.  And she, being not long ago a happy bride and they having a small child, bought into his assurances and promises.
She was in love with him, and the promise of a beautiful life with him.
He has a severe sexual addiction.  Obviously, quite a few men and some women have this whatever-it-is-called.
And, like craving alcohol or nicotine or food or whatever, he needs help to overcome this addiction.  He is suffering a mental aberration.
One of my dearest friends has been sober for 35 years now.  And she tells me that making sure she had some spare bottles hidden around the house was more important than having food in the house for her children.  The craving is more than intense.  It is EVERYTHING.
This particular man, like so very many others, Bill Clinton, yes, and JOHN KENNEDY, is very intelligent, charming and clever.
He should not be condemned so much as counseled until he learns to absolutely control his need to do such things.
And he can do a very good job of serving as an example of this illness to this nation.  We, as a species, have a need to know.

[BarbStAubrey]

rah rah - he like the Catholic Church could have taken a huge problem and made it into a teaching experience showing a light at the end of the tunnel, while helping those of us who love them understand and become an appropriate support rather than without even realizing it we are often manipulated into being enablers. In that respect Hilary Clinton shows us a model - she did not run which is what most books and spokes people suggest however, she is seldom at his side as she carries on her own life while allowing their daughter the best of both of them as her parents.

[Steph]

I do not think he should be Mayor however. The temptations would be overwhelming and yet another scandal would be on us.

[jeriron]

Steph
I agree. If his wife wants to stay with him that's fine but I think he's a real jerk. If  he believes he has some sex appeal I don't see it. All i see is a big nose and a ugly face.

[MaryPage]

Sincerely now, I think there is an elephant in the room and this nation is not allowing themselves to look at it.I do not think this is a MORAL question.  I know, I know.  For thousands upon thousands of years it has been addressed as a moral problem, and all during those innumerable generations the MEN have known better in their minds and averted their eyes just the same.
This is why preachers and priests are sex addicts.
This is why the military men cannot bring themselves to feel a speck of empathy for women.
They will not look at the elephant.
And the elephant is that there is a sex addiction gene in just a whole lot of men and some women.  Women have been called nymphomaniacs when they possess this addiction.  But men have been hiding any discussion of it other than in the ten commandments and so forth.
I think we need to LOOK at this elephant and call it what it is and recognize that it can be identified early on and treated through counseling and medication.  We do not NEED to have our children raped and/or our women disrespected, raped and murdered.  We can admit that the human species WAS NOT made in the image of god, but has a lot of flaws that can be sorted out and fixed through science, not religion.
I am not saying the addiction the priests have for little boys is the same as the nasty waving of penises to women in the social networks.  I am saying it is all sex addiction with fantasy, but each a different spot on a spectrum.  And we need to admit it is there and start identifying it and fixing it for the good of the whole society.  And our children.
Muslim men have used women (as indeed have Christian men!) as the font of all blame for their sexual cravings.  Women are at fault just being THERE, and must not show an inch of skin or a strand of hair, or it is all their fault what the men feel and do.  You can be sure almost every man at a stoning of a woman for adultery has an erection and joyful climax.  They don't like to do the same to a man, because they do not get the satisfaction.  You see, they can identify with the man and think of themselves as being in that spot.  But now, a WOMAN!  What a lovely rush in the body to kill one of those!

[Steph]

Interesting, MaryPage.. I think though that an addiction is a copout for what they want.. The rush from any sort of physical activity. So much of physical things are because they feel entitled. Is that an addiction or simply "the two year old",,, I want it, its mine syndrome.

[Winchesterlady]

I think I feel the same as Steph.  Everything is an addiction now.  I think people no longer have limits.  They believe they can do just about anything with no consequences.  It seems to me these men behave that way because they feel they are entitled and no one will say anything.  Nowadays, you can do just about anything while in office.  People will be upset for a short while and then vote you back in.  It’s sad.