Author Topic: Women's Issues  (Read 380251 times)

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #720 on: July 28, 2013, 12:04:05 PM »
With all due respect, I think you are wrong.  I believe, sincerely I do, our society is totally marinated in the black and white, right or wrong, this pole or that way of looking at things, a way, by the way, that has not succeeded in solving society's problems, that it is extremely difficult for us to pull ourselves away from and look at how brains are really wired.  I am not even sure we WANT to pull ourselves away.  I think it is kind of sort of icky to us to consider our deepest problems may well be all to do with the wiring of our brains.
But I think that is where our problems lie.
Yes, education is a big factor in bringing about a desirable civilization and a way of thinking that looks at the grey areas between the black and white, the mitigating factors between the right and wrong, the infinite variations between the poles.  Yet our headline sexual deviants are highly educated!  And religiously reared!
So we need to treat these things as coming from brains that need to be rewired to solve the myriad problems of those born with those particular brain wiring maps.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #721 on: July 28, 2013, 12:41:25 PM »
If you watch the Charlie Rose series on the brain with each episode at least 5 scientists sitting around the table speaking about their study and research into the various parts of the brain (I am not good with the words used to describe the various areas of the brain and what they do) anyhow there is a part of the brain something the Caligula and the Hippocampus that control our emotions and the desire for more of what feels good.

It is not just making someone a victim by overpowering them for sex - in other words it is not just the sex it is the feel good of the sleuthing - keeping it a secret - it is also about power-over especially in children - think about it - there is no good sex with kids and there is no satisfying sex with someone you have terrorized - as to tweeter it is like phone sex that is less damaging to the chosen partner - but like all addiction it is hard to break. It starts because, like any habit, for a brief time you are not thinking, worrying, being reminded of what is painful in your life - you are simply performing and the result feels good.

It is like the drug addict or drunk who temporarily escapes however, this part of the brain comes into play and like all habits it automatically will not respond to the same impluse but requires more or greater acts - there are habits that do not hurt other people as well as, those that do. Yes, in a way these obsessions are selfish because they do protect the addict from painful memories long buried but still there. That pull is greater than can be fixed like using a patch to stop smoking.

That is why anyone who knows AA or Al-anon learned that as damaging as the obsession seems like sex, gambling, drinking, drugging, it is not just breaking the habit - going cold turkey by those who stop their obsession without therapy - it is stopping all the behavior around the obsession. That is why so many who know are laughing at the California Mayor who is assuming a two week clinic is going to cure him. All the damaging behavior must be explored, understood, and alternatives adapted or we have, as they call it, a Dry Drunk or a Dry ____ fill in your word for what is the obsession.

Sex without consent has a power-over component where you are in control and like a spy you secretly go after the prey that will be easiest to manipulate or over-power. As to online or phone sex there is as much power in titillating another as there is being titillated yourself.  

Only yesterday watched the old movie the Thomas Crown Affair - a very wealthy man who was addicted to outwitting and robbing banks with a choreographed smart system - he was addicted to matching his wits against the best and proving their protection system had holes. Last week saw the old movie The Collector. The protagonist collects thousands of butterflies and goes on to collect women. A young women he hold prisoner dies and he satisfies the loss without his conquest because of her superior social position - then, he goes after a nurse who ministered to him in the hospital for an injury.

These movies were made before we knew so much about the brain and before the knowledge gained by 60, 70 and now just under 80 years of attempting to heal addictive behavior so that we saw Thomas Crown as charming and sexy where as, the Collector was considered in the movie psychotic.  Now we know that an addiction is a mental state that requires greater and greater stimulation and if an addiction is stopped cold turkey it pops up as another addiction or as another version of the first.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Winchesterlady

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #722 on: July 28, 2013, 12:49:40 PM »
I'm not saying that people don't have addictions. I just think that has become an easy excuse for some to use.
~ Carol ~

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #723 on: July 28, 2013, 12:55:51 PM »
Could be and then that is part of an addiction - to cry that you are the victim - you are doing what you are doing because someone's behavior "Made" you do it - like the old saying the Devil made me do it. Like all addiction the shame of doing it is one thing but the inability to take responsibility for the damage it is causing yourself as well as others is getting to the core. So that yes, you are so right, anyone saying they are addicted to escape humiliation is not facing their inner pain that started the addiction in the first place.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #724 on: July 29, 2013, 07:24:12 AM »
Scientists have already shown a lot of additive behavior is genetic.  From my very own personal experience, I have seen alcoholism rage right through 4 generations in a family.  Heartbreaking.
And we are a country full of people addicted to sweets and fast food.  Look at any photo of Americans walking down a sidewalk anywhere, and you will see the dangerously obese all over the place.
They can't stop themselves.  They are stuffing their mouths at all hours of the day and guzzling down soda pop instead of water.
Yes, the very first thing addicts will do is defend their behavior as something they have to do.  They have to.  Have to.
It is definitely a symptom of the disease. 

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #725 on: July 29, 2013, 08:38:57 AM »
I would assume I am old and cranky, but discipline is lacking in the current world. I look around, read the papers, watch the news and wonder why these people riot... lie.. steal... and then say,"Oh I am sorry, it was an addiction" Poppycock
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Winchesterlady

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #726 on: July 29, 2013, 10:23:49 AM »
I would assume I am old and cranky, but discipline is lacking in the current world. I look around, read the papers, watch the news and wonder why these people riot... lie.. steal... and then say,"Oh I am sorry, it was an addiction" Poppycock

I think I'm old and cranky too!  Addictions can go so far, then I still think so many use that as an excuse.   Discipline and limits are surely lacking.
~ Carol ~

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #727 on: July 29, 2013, 11:37:27 AM »
Yes, AA and Al-anon make a big issue of that and it is called Denial so that it is made into a play on words and called De-Nile - De as in The

It is very difficult to come to terms with an obsessions - sometimes it takes a group of family members and friends to confront how the behavior of the obsession is hurting each one in the room  - the best interventions are set up so the person is immediately setup for a treatment center however, not everyone can afford a center and so a few from a local AA group are there to bring the person to a meeting and stay on top of them with visits, phone calls, folks showing up to take them to a meeting.

Again, it is humiliating to acknowledge how your obsession is affecting others and it is not your personal secret and then if the obsession is bad enough that it is known by friends and family never mind the public it is still argued away as not being all that bad.

It is all about protecting the obsession as if it was one of our young children. If you are over weight or do not walk every day or put things off - all small obsessions you know how hard it is to eat so you have no excess weight or how hard it is to get those tennies on and take a daily walk or go to the gym or get something you know should be done when the day is so busy or we are uncomfortable doing the job or any of many reasons have us put it off.  

That is just mild and with a weightwatcher program or buckling down to a diet - meeting a group of friends for a morning walk takes care of getting back into the healthy habits - an addict may even join friends but secretly swear they are following the plan but instead, take one bite and then another or nap most of the afternoon because they are so tired after the short walk etc. etc.

For an addict promises are made like the wind blowing - not even like the rain falling that will in time fill up a lake. Promises are simply a sinkhole that trips up anyone who believes them.

We have been so indoctrinated in the eighteen and nineteenth century concept of bucking up to a moral code that our belief system over-rides what we have not experienced or seen first hand up close - it takes years of learning for those of us who have seen this up front - because we do want to understand what seems incomprehensible - some of the damage is so severe that it takes years and years to get to forgiveness and we too fight with the concept that calling it a disease feels like a cop-out - no one wants to accept that within the brain there is something that could make any of us obsess -

When someone is sick we feel like it is beyond their control  and yet, the pain of their actions within this so called sickness as we would argue is too reprehensible.  We no longer blame people, like they did in the early middle ages for their sickness and so we have an inner war with out feelings. OH we know when  someone is bad it is not them we hate but their actions but now you are saying the actions are as a result of a disease?

Believe me it takes years and years to get past that threshold - i took me over 25years - and so I know how incomprehensible this explanation of a disease sounds.  When I finally could come to terms with an appropriate emotional response the last 5 years or so have been more lost without the intense studying and learning and meetings and conferences I attended to try and wrap my head around what happened - the fall out still affects our family even now, that he is finally dead. And so I can only guess at how the average person would want to say addictive behavior is an excuse for a lack of morals -

However, until we do realize as a society this is not something that an addicted person can simply go to church and make a confession and join a group - and if they do not then they lack moral fiber -  we will continue to have these atom bombs destroy family after family and affect kids who then grow up to repeat what they could not get a grip on. Once these addictions are taken seriously with public belief that worthy are the serious attempts to cure just as we do most serious diseases, we will have kids failing in school and jails fill up and smut behavior as the norm among the young who are hurt and angry and yes, even the abortions that do not seem to be putting a mother in physical danger.

The outcome of Girls sexually abused as their norm are being trained as children to associate love, affection, acknowledgement of their worth as a sexual act and as an adult have no idea what is healthy sex. They are easily manipulated into an action that leaves them pregnant.

As long as we attempt to punish addicts or see their excuses as weak morals and a weak will we will never solve the problem - to learn and understand and demand a public health response rather than sending addicts to jail as if that will cure them. Again, it is more than the addiction it is the behavior that must be understood by the addict and then changed.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #728 on: July 29, 2013, 08:16:19 PM »
Since we're worried about the upcoming generations, I want to brag on our "baby" granddaughter, Sarah.  She sent us this link today.  Click here.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

jane

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #729 on: July 29, 2013, 08:53:06 PM »
Wow...I know you're so proud of her, and you should be!

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #730 on: July 29, 2013, 10:27:01 PM »
Fabulous MaryZ not only is your granddaughter a powerful achiever and a beautiful woman but fabulous is the concept she is embracing of mental health available within non-profits. So glad you posted this one step towards hope for the understanding and behavior changes needed to affect change among the addicted and those who were caught in their debris.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #731 on: July 30, 2013, 08:35:32 AM »
Another link - this time from a friend (retired family physician) who posted it on her fb page - things a father should tell his daughter about sex.  Click here.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

jane

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #732 on: July 30, 2013, 09:29:14 AM »
Great article, Mary!  I've not heard of the "purity" movement.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #733 on: July 30, 2013, 10:35:59 AM »
I had heard of the purity movement, but did not ever hear about the ring and that nonsense.. Religion has a lot to answer for.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #734 on: July 30, 2013, 10:49:08 AM »
That was excellent, Mary!  Excellent.
And congratulations on your granddaughter's achievements.  One of my granddaughters is a lawyer, as well.  She has her own practice here, doing real estate law.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #735 on: July 30, 2013, 11:01:18 AM »
About the addictions thing, since we started talking about it I seem to be running into it everywhere I go.  For instance, the August issue of National Geographic contains mind boggling stuff about the human race's addiction to sugar, and the consequences of that on our health as a species.  I had no idea sugar originated in New Guinea or that it really did not get going until 500 A.D. and later.  Or that it was the Arabs who had most to do with its dissemination.  Candy is an Arabic word!  Fascinating.
And the July 22 issue of The New Yorker has a long and scary article about men's addiction to abusing and murdering their wives.  And another article about how many billions of dollars ALL of us taxpayers (well mind, I don't pay even one billion in taxes) pay to keep people enjoying their addiction to ocean views and beaches.  You get the feeling that as a practical matter we should get the hell off those barrier islands, and that we won't.  We just won't.
And there was an eye opening article about how some men have been addicted to collecting bird's eggs as a hobby.  Just to own.  Just to collect.  Not to make money (some do, most don't), but just to satisfy a craving;  an obsession.  It is now against the law in most places, but they do it anyway.  Some have spent years in jail, only to get out and start collecting again.
Whatever form the addiction takes, the genes to have one or more addictions are there.  In our bodies.
And if it were all about morals and self-discipline, we would not have so many priests with the urge to be pedophiles.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #736 on: July 31, 2013, 08:54:07 AM »
Acording to some studies I have read, the addictive personality takes many forms and often if cured of a dangerous ( i.e. Drug addiction) addiction will then take up another form. Some work done on alcoholics who take up smoking which isnt much better. I also know twowoman who are gym rats. They go every singl day, takes classes and simply stay all day.. Another form of addiction.Our reading habits can rank as a minor addiction.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #737 on: July 31, 2013, 01:40:01 PM »
Steph I think the difference is when an addiction hurts family members - like when the addiction is so great we hide behind what feels good and we do not give time and attention to our loved ones or we end up not making any future plans with the family or the family cannot depend on us to show up for planned events because we need to satisfy our addiction.

Example - 'go away I am reading' - 'yes, hon I will do it after I finish this chapter' only they start another chapter and still have to called to the table or to do the task - or if the family is at the beach the reader is buried behind books under the beach umbrella while the family plays in the surf. Or later when the family is grown the addict won't leave the house except to shop and they would avoid that if they could in order to read. If the dog whimpers to go out they can hardly take their eyes off the page to simply open the door and let the dog out. Their outings always include a stop at the library or book store along with several deliveries a week from Amazon or B&N or the like that the UPS delivery person knows them by name.

Usually the addiction is first on the budget regardless of other bills. Some addicts are compulsive keeping track of every penny including what and how others in the family spend every penny while others let the bills pile up and bounce checks on a regular basis. The extremes are the norm so kids growing up in a home where the addiction takes over have no idea what is normal.

Those are just some of the characteristics of an addict - replace reading with drinking or drugging and you can see it is not just the drinking or drugging till someone cannot function or is passed out
it is all these other typical behaviors that affect the family - the behaviors grow little by little, like the addiction requiring more and more so that like heating a turtle or lobster in a pot it happens so gradually that the family is affected and thinks they are being unreasonable and something is wrong with them.

There are books and books for children of Alcoholics including the grandchildren of alcoholics since they were raised by parents or a parent who had no idea what was normal - it takes years of work to break through - it is not like coloring your hair - the change means coming to terms with your behavior - feeling the loss of what you knew - being angry that this is work that you did not cause - and finally taking on the work of making the change that as the addict slips if the change all it takes is an unexpected event and the child of an addict slips back to the behavior that is unhealthy and will cause them harm.

The same principles and damaging behavior now understood for Children of Alcoholics are the same for an adult child of any addiction - the meetings for Adult Children of Alcoholics are similar to Al-anon meetings and a variety of, 'damaging to the family addictions' are included since the outcome is similar for family members of any addiction.

Every few months during a meeting someone comes up with how to handle allowing their addicted parent to either baby sit or drive their grandchild when there is no trust they will be nipping on a bottle or drugging or stopping to gamble or whatever regardless their grandchild is with them. However, if the grandparent is reading to the child or taking the child to the gym there is no panic - what may be an addiction to them causing other harms they are not going to cause harm to a grandchild. Believe it or not that has to be sorted out in these meetings because again an Adult Child does not know what is normal. Also, their anger can get in the way although they want to be fair and the best parent.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #738 on: August 01, 2013, 08:53:46 AM »
I admit that sometimes,but not often when the boys were teens , to using books to get away from normal life, so to speak.. but never for long.. I also had sons who swam and sailed competitively..Both spots allow lots of reading time..since you are waiting quite a long time.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #739 on: August 01, 2013, 10:45:44 AM »
My granddaughter Jenny will be on a panel discussing autism at www.kcur.org at noon Eastern Daylight Time today.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #740 on: August 02, 2013, 09:25:42 PM »
How proud you must be. I have not been near a tv until tonight and then not much..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #741 on: August 03, 2013, 08:42:09 AM »
Yes, she was great.  And the station got so much feed back, they want to do another show on the subject.  They were totally surprised.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #742 on: August 03, 2013, 12:08:54 PM »
MaryPage hope sings - how wonderful of your grandaughter and how wonderful of you to bring us this kind of good news.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #743 on: August 03, 2013, 12:17:16 PM »
Thank your granddgt for her work on autism. My dgt has a friend who has 2 small girls w/ autism and my son has a friend who has a son w/ autism. Fortunately all were diagnosed early in their lives and their parents have the means for them to get a lot of help, so all are progressing. It seems to have just exploded in numbers in the last decade or so.

Jean

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #744 on: August 03, 2013, 04:47:56 PM »
My granddaughter Jenny, who lives in Kansas City, Missouri, has 4 children.  The oldest and only girl is in her second year of a 5 year program at Kansas State University which will net her a masters degree in architecture and certification in that discipline.  She is quite normal.  Young Sam, (who is named for his grandfather who is married to my daughter Becky and is now called Old Sam,) is 12 and in the gifted program at his school.  He is quite normal.  Simon, who will be 9 at the end of this month, and Max who is 7½, are autistic.  Jenny was blown away upon diagnosis and discovering insurance would not cover therapy which could bring them back from the place they were disappearing into.  She has personally addressed the legislature in Jefferson City several times, and gone down there over and over again to lobby.  They finally saw the light and now insurance in Missouri must cover treatment for autism.  Jenny is now working on this nation wide, with concentration on Kansas and Oklahoma.  She has quite a tale to tell, and she told it on this panel on this radio show.  By the way, both little boys are savants.  Simon has an IQ of 160 in mathematics and helps his big brother Sam with his homework.  I swear!

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #745 on: August 03, 2013, 05:01:58 PM »
What are the theories for the rise in persons who have autism and especially in families. Is there a genetic component?

Jean

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #746 on: August 03, 2013, 05:41:22 PM »
They don't know.  They just do not know.  It most definitely IS NOT childhood shots.  And yes, it IS genetic.  That much has been found to be a definite truth.
I kind of sort of wonder if it is a new evolutionary phase our species is going through in order to get somewhere.
Speaking of which, I was fascinated to read somewhere recently that when we developed such large heads the offset was that it takes so much longer for our young to mature enough to be on their own!

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #747 on: August 04, 2013, 09:54:47 AM »
I know that my grandson ( 11) Connor is high performing Asbergers.. My son, his father had problems in elementary school and was diagnosed as ADD and took ritalin, Math was his problem and still is to this day. HIs Mother has alwasy had problems reversing words and letters, etc. Both of them graduated from college. Penni had a tutor the whole time. They both went to AMerican Internation College in western Ma. and the school has a special program for dyslexic indivduals.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #748 on: August 08, 2013, 08:02:54 AM »
I was just making my bed and listening to Morning Joe on MSNBC and I heard Joe Scarborough say that he has a son with Asperger's.  I do not believe I have ever heard that before.
By the way, when the Secretary of the Navy, Josephus Daniels, banned hard liquor from the galleys of the ships and put in coffee instead, the men began to call it Josephus, which was soon shortened to "Joe."  What fun to have just learned that from a review of a new book out about that remarkable man.
I love, love, love hearing where words came from;  albeit sometimes I think the writers are making it up.  In this case, it sounds quite authentic.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #749 on: August 08, 2013, 08:55:50 AM »
I love explanations of words, even if they sound a bit fanciful..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #750 on: August 08, 2013, 01:22:16 PM »
If you like words, do you check out A Word A Day from Wordsmith?  It's one of my daily site-checks.

http://wordsmith.org/words/
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #751 on: August 08, 2013, 02:08:54 PM »
What I think is fun is I subscribe to ThinkMap which is a visual Thesaurus - the one where the word in the center has lines radiating showing alternative synonyms that include the exact meaning in a side bar - well they have a daily email system that brings a word and its history and usually includes other words that are a take off or the original word that it came from and how it was historically used. I think the annual fee is only $19.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #752 on: August 09, 2013, 08:21:21 AM »
I seem to have way too many something every day on my computer.. Am trying to prune it down.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #753 on: August 09, 2013, 01:33:13 PM »
Another fun word site is "alphadictionary" run by a linguist from Bucknell Univ. he does have a daily newsletter of a word and its derivation, but he also has a lt of other things going on on the website that are fun.

http://www.alphadictionary.com/index.shtml

Jean

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #754 on: August 09, 2013, 03:11:32 PM »
Oh shoot try to use that one in a sentence - the best I can come up with using today's news is - The GOP in Maryland are in high dudgeon with their Congressional Representative over National Security Agency surveillance.

Its been awhile since I have felt such intense indignation and if I do still not sure how to relay that using dudgeon.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #755 on: August 09, 2013, 03:54:10 PM »
We just started the Great Courses course on the History of the English Language.  It's looking like it's going to be a good one.

I've always loved the idea of being in high dudgeon!
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #756 on: August 09, 2013, 04:28:20 PM »
 :D

CallieOK

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #757 on: August 09, 2013, 08:50:44 PM »
According to my dictionary, one in "high dudgeon" might want to use a "dudgeon" (<obsolete>noun meaning a dagger having a handle of a certain wood  ;)

If one is only annoyed, is one in "dudgeon"?   ???

If one couldn't care one way or the other, is one is "low dudgeon"?   ???


The mind boggles.    :D

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #758 on: August 09, 2013, 09:49:38 PM »
 ;D;D
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #759 on: August 09, 2013, 10:12:32 PM »
 8) :) ;)
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe