Political Processes - Can we talk?

[mogamom]

Have you seen this?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/381573/whiteface-vandalism-republican-candidates-sign-tim-cavanaugh

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/01/black-gop-florida_n_5548354.html

[jane]

That's so sad and pathetic.  Who is she running against in the primary?  Is he/she considered to be involved like happened in Mississippi's Republican primary?

I don't understand how politicians/supporters think any more.  I heard about the taping of the wife of Cochran in her nursing home where she has Alzheimer's.  That was going to be used against the candidate in that primary in Mississippi.  Apparently one of the men involved committed suicide when he was found out.

Mississippi tea party leader accused in photo scandal found dead

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-tea-party-mark-mayfield-dead-suicide-20140627-story.html


It seems anything goes in the primaries, even, to get the win.

[mogamom]

She is running against Lowe in the primary and Lowe spoke out strongly against the action stating that Smith is well respected in the party but suggested that the Dem incumbent Brown may have had something to do with it.  I just think people think they are supporting their own candidate when they do something like this, but it only ends up reflecting  poorly on a candidate's campaign.

I heard about the man in Miss; how sad that was!  From what I read it sounds like he was just overly-zealous.  So many held him in high regard - just really poor judgment.  I just can't imagine how such a picture could possibly be used?  Doesn't make sense to me.

[jane]

And isn't that what is sad about so many politicians and especially their Aides and supporters, on both sides, these days.  They get so wrapped up in the campaign and quest for power, I guess, that all common sense and decency gets lost.

[nlhome]

I didn't understand that situation in Mississippi either.

[mogamom]

I didn't understand that situation in Mississippi either.

The incumbent here has heavily favored items in the president's agenda that Miss Rep are not in favor of.  He is evidently running on his ability to bring fed. dollars to the state: but, as one 76 year old Miss says, the state (after 40+ years of this man's tenure in the Senate remains the poorest state in the union.  In the run-off election with his opponent he  distributed pamphlets in the districts heavily African-American and Democratic accusing the opposition of attempting to keep these people from voting.  But there is a law in Miss. that if a Dem votes in their own primary, they cannot also vote in the Rep primary - and many did.  And election staff were refusing access to the ballots for comparison, which is also illegal.

As of this date, McDaniel's group has found over 5000 illegal votes with many more districts to investigate.  The incumbent only won by about  7-8000 votes (depending on the article I read).  I think they would say that what is at stake here is voter fraud of a massive scale, race-baiting, lies in the  depictions of his opponent and' free and fair elections'.


As to the immigration issue, I found these views interesting, showing various elements at play here:

http://cdn.rollcall.com/news/immigration_reform_proponents_must_consider_results_from_100_years_ago-234569-1.html?popular=true&cdn_load=true&zkPrintable=1&nopagination=1

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/11/opinion/sheldon-adelson-warren-buffett-and-bill-gates-on-immigration-reform.html?_r=0

Although I don't know if many would agree with the statement in the article above that:  The three of us vary in our politics and would differ also in our details of an immigrations reform bill.
I think most would consider these three pretty liberal in their ideology; perhaps the degree might vary, but still all decidedly liberal.  Conservatives might even liken them to the Koch brothers so evilly cast by Dems.?

http://www.infowars.com/uc-professor-immigration-influx-is-about-re-education-of-society/

[BarbStAubrey]

It is true here as well that you can vote in a primary as either a Dem or a Pub but you can only vote once - we have two part elections - the vote is one part and the other the caucus so if you want to be a part of the caucus representing your candidate than you choose to vote your party in order to be eligible but if the caucus is not a big national count then many times the Dems vote in a primary as well as Pubs vote in primaries for candidates in the other party to help skew the results. its just that too many have not figured out that Blacks are now as savvy and wise as White voters so they too can and do skew an election.  

My problem currently is that these kids are not immigrants they are in my mind refugees. There are only a trickle of men accompanying this onslaught of folks seeking asylum, young husbands accompanying their wives - not the typical male migrant only looking for work so that alone says to me this is not a rush of immigrants. When the budget request first hit the news there is included a sum, maybe 300,000 anyhow to work with other nations on a diplomatic level to help take in some of these kids - that news seems not to have captured the imagination of most news commentators - that says to me other nations like Canada are being asked to help.

Everyone is all upset now with Monsento engineered seeds - well when you shut down the ability for 3 straight years of farmers on the west side of the Rockies to grow our seed crop because of stopping migrants and all the imagination in the world does not bring us locals who will work as long and as hard in the fields for even more pay then, the seed industry in our nation went kaput so that Monsento had an easy walk taking over and now we are all paying the price - industry after industry was affected - now most of our food is grown in Northern Mexico using skills they learned here while working our fields and they use Monsento seeds since they do not have the banks of seeds grown on fields - the fields claimed from the desert they want to bring in immediate cash which means their fields can produce more and quick cash by harvesting crops.

In west Texas we no longer grow low price crops like chives, radishes, lettuce, cucumbers etc. without cheap labor those crops are an annual cash loss and so after a few years of fallow land there are volunteers helping these small farmers grow things like avocados that bring about a higher price at market and are less water and worker dependent. Who looses - you and I - remember green onions 3 bundles for 79 cents and later for a dollar - now the price of one bundle can be a dollar and they are grown in Mexico originally from Monsento starts, that does not have to be declared on a fresh food product that comes from Mexico.

All I see is the tax dollars we were so concerned was educating the migrant children and taking care of health care which I had a problem believing knowing migrants seldom use our doctors, preferring their Curandero and heavy use of folk healing, anyhow that saved tax money is not lining our pockets as we now pay more for food shipped in from Mexico and grown from engineered seeds.  As well as driving off the land many US farmers.

[nlhome]

What I find interesting about the Mississippi vote situation (When I said I  didn't understand the situation, I was referring more to the pictures of the candidate's spouse in the nursing home and that whole debacle) is that if I, living far from Mississippi, understood before the election that it was illegal for someone who voted in the Democratic primary to then vote in the Republican run-off, then Mississippi voters should certainly have known. It will be interesting to see if those 5,000 supposedly illegal votes really were.

[BarbStAubrey]

I did not read that they VOTED Dem in the primary - just that they were Dems who voted in the run off - you do not have to vote in the primary election and so after missing the first you can simply vote in the run off. Often Dem and Pub primary elections are not scheduled for the same time - the Dems may not need a primary and have only one candidate leaving folks to vote in the Pub primary and/or the run off. I did not read the particulars as closely but I just saw the Dems as being free to vote without being tied to voting in a Dem primary - some even decide their party candidate is a shoo in and so they will vote in the primary of the other party. I sometimes do that because I know a Dem in this state has a snowball's chance in h... of winning and will have a chance if such and such candidate is the opponent and so a few of us add our vote to helping that opponent win.  

[nlhome]

According to ABS news:  Under Mississippi’s open primary system, residents can participate in either primary election, but they are not allowed to vote in both.

So those who voted in the Democratic primary could not vote in the run-off.

Yes, I often vote in a different primary than I normally would because there may be no candidate, or sometimes no viable candidate, in the party that I would usually vote for an important office (often local). If I want a say at all in who will represent me, I need to make my voice heard in the primary. 

[maryz]

There is no party registration in Tennessee, and there are "open" primaries.  John and I were election officials for years before we moved to Chattanooga, so we were familiar with the procedures, etc.  People would be furious when they were allowed to vote in only one party primary and then had to tell us which one (so we could provide them with the appropriate ballot).  Neither of us can remember a situation about a party primary run-off

I've been trying to find out the rules for voting in a party primary run-off election, and cannot seem to find anything that specifically addresses that.  This piece is from our county election commission web site, and explains everything else fairly well.  I'll keep looking to find out about a party primary run-off.


VOTING AT A PRIMARY ELECTION
 
 
In Tennessee, citizens register to vote.  No declaration of party affiliation is required at the time of registration. Tennessee does not register by party.

 All legally registered voters in Tennessee are issued a “Voter Registration Card” by their county election office. No party affiliation appears on the voter’s card.

 When a voter appears to vote during any Primary Election they must declare if they wish to vote in the Democratic Primary or the Republican Primary.

 The voter’s declaration is recorded on a signed Application for Ballot. The ballot issued to the voter for the Primary Election will have only the names of candidates in the party that the voter is affiliating with on that Election Day.

 When two Primary Elections are being conducted on the same date (Presidential Preference and County Primary), the voter is prohibited from voting in different primary elections on the same day (one political party locally and the other political party nationally). Their ballot will be a Democratic Ballot all the way up and down the ballot or it will be a Republican Ballot all the way up and down the ballot. 

[mogamom]

This is the report that McDaniel filed regarding the voting irregularities.  Some counties have still not been reviewed because he was refused entry (which also violates Miss. law):

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document-preview.aspx?doc_id=172021608


In New York you can't vote in a primary for a party you aren't registered in.  In Miss. you can, as long as you didn't vote in your own party's primary.

This is interesting since I saw results of a study that lists Mississippi as no. 1 state in the US for corruption!

http://fortune.com/2014/06/10/most-corrupt-states-in-america/

(I was actually expecting New York to be among them, since our governor is being investigated by the Feds, along with so many other scandals we've endured.  What a surprise!  Construction is one of the ways the states waste money; I saw Trump on David Letterman some months back because he had just completed the improvement of water-front property in a couple of years at about 2 million dollars.  The city had been "working" on this property for 27 years with millions of dollars poured into it.  When Letterman asked Trump how he did it so well, so quickly and at such a reasonable cost, Trump cited corruption.  Finally, to Bloomberg's credit, the city hired Trump.)

[BarbStAubrey]

Texas you can vote in either primary but only one -

Whatever primary you vote in does not require you vote with that party for future elections.

And since we have a two part primary election you can caste your ballet in the other party however, you forfeit voting in the caucus of your party - it is a two part vote - only by voting can you be eligible to be a part of the caucus that determines who represents the party at the convention.

[mogamom]

Speaking of waste, I found this to be ironic since the passage of the bill was Obama's signature bill from the days when he was a senator:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/080614-712168-federal-spend-tracking-website-found-to-have-missed-619-billion-dollars-in-spending.htm

[nlhome]

Interesting to see that report by McDaniel. Lots of time spent on that.

I wonder how they would go about enforcing the voter's intent to support the candidate he/she voted for in the primary - even based on a person's statement, that can be brushed off as a joke or misinterpretation, or a change of mind. Or even a thought that it's likely my party's candidate will lose, so I'll vote in the other primary so at least I get a say in who might represent me.

[mogamom]

It will be interesting to see how the court decodes this, I think.  I think the campaign believes they have enough votes with those who voted in both primaries; absentee ballots that weren't properly validated, comingled votes, ballot boxes not properly handled, etc. are the other 'irregularities'.  I wonder how much weight is given to each type of 'irregularity'?

I know people 'cross over' in the primaries; maybe that's why so few feel that they are being represented?  I've heard the Republican party referred to as 'the right-wing of the Democratic party.

But I also think there should be more choices.  In this day why shouldn't anyone who meets the qualifications, and is able to get enough signatures have the chance to set their case for why they should receive your vote, how they differ from the others, etc.  and make all their life documents available to the public (tax reports, school records, birth certificate, health reports, etc).  Let the voters decide, rather than have your choice decided by a small group of individuals vetting a candidate?

[mogamom]

This is a little scarey!  I read an article a few days ago that spoke about ISIS recruiting - especially western women - and how the UK was addressing the problem...

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/214721-feinstein-it-takes-an-army-to-defeat-an-army

[nlhome]

I agree, we need more choices.

I saw an article last night that reported on the pastor who originally said that he was paid to get people to vote by and then came up with another story and then, finally, when law enforcement got involved, admitted he lied and was paid by someone in the McDaniel camp to lie. A pastor? That's sad - no matter which story is ultimately true.

[mogamom]

It appears that ISIS is heating up the opposition of Muslims to the US ?


http://www.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/barbara-boland/imam-cnn-sharia-will-come-america-and-there-s-no-moderate-form-islam

[kidsal]

I don't know how we can say that ISIS has any relation to the Muslim religion.  They are just a bunch of cowardly thugs and killers.

[Frybabe]

I agree. This group is collecting a bunch of psychopaths (sociopaths) , extremists, as you say Kidsal, thugs and killers, those who love to create mayhem for mayhem's sake. I don't think many of them really care what cause they are supporting, just so long as someone is willing to foot the bill for their propensity to violence.

We hear very little if anything about more moderate Muslims openly opposing these various radical groups. Why is that?

[BarbStAubrey]

a couple of reasons I think - they do live a tribal society which means there is no individual thought or action - it is all group - and we are now realizing it is more than just Sunni, Shia and Kurds - there are other smaller groups or tribes - and unless the group leaders want to go public they stay within themselves - also I do not think even our more knowledgeable reporters have a handle on just how many tribes and the differences so they are not looking for the sublet signs - and I do think sublet since a group that is in opposition to a more powerful tribe would be at risk.

The book that I found to explain how the Shia and Sunni normally operate different than each other and it also goes deeper into the particulars of practicing their religion, explaining the various layers of leadership is The Shia Revival: by Vali Nasr. Although the title sounds like it is all about the Shia the book reads with both Shia and Sunni explored and naming some names of religious leaders that we would recognize that were Hollywood movie stars.

My take is that until we really understand tribal societies and how they operate we are reading the news as if what is happening is either good or bad based on individual self determination from our own understanding of life therefore, we end up with expectations of how to stamp out these barbarians with our western thinking and tools. We analyze the situation from our own frame of reference - we have no idea how many groups are living in the middle east -

I have read in a few places a more in-depth explanation of ISIS and their easy target for recruits have been the Sunni since they were the tribe in power for hundreds of years replaced by Shia during the Iraq war and our interference.  The Shia do not have the education or leadership skills of the Sunni - to regain power the Sunni had to come up with something stronger than the western nations who support the Shia. Probably that support, our support, is a byproduct that our leadership (before going into Iraq) did not understand the breadth of influence the tribes practice in running a nation.

The problem getting rid of Saddam was - not only was he Sunni but more important he was part of a new movement with its main group in Syria, who are now among the Syrian rebels, who were attempting to have a government separate from religion that used Sharia law. He was ruthless and later we learned he bragged about having greater military arms but then, the more we read the more we learn the Iraq war was more about advancing our oil interests than getting rid of Saddam - he was simply the easily describable  marketing devise to justify the war.  

It would be good to know all the tribes, where they historically live - my guess is that ISIS is going after all the smaller tribes that may have a population of up to a million people but they appear to be less protected - if ISIS can eliminate them one by one they have a controlled situation where they can then go after the Shia knowing they would be fighting the west who will support the Shia. It would be interesting to learn if some of the leadership of ISIS have infiltrated Iran's governing leadership - keeping that confrontation alive would keep Iran from putting all its forces into helping the Shia in Iraq.

Through out history you can read how the middle eastern tribes were always good at getting others to take up their causes and fight their wars - I think that is part of the barbarian behavior we are witnessing - to so shock us so that we will revert to anger and go to war over this which brings more arms into the region, more money, a purpose to engage the overwhelming youthful population rather than creating industry to give them work and fighting a war deepens in the youth their allegiance to the tribal system.  

[mogamom]

Thank you for posting the book recommendation, BarbStAubrey.  I think you make so many good points in your post.  Without some better understanding of the culture of Islam it is difficult to get beyond personally noted anecdotes.

For instance, several years ago I heard of a Muslim father who waited for his 17 yr old daughter to get home after sneaking out to see her boyfriend and beat her to death.  I remember noting in that case that he was 'surprised' that he was found guilty of murder.  I wondered how he could be so surprised until more recently there was a somewhat similar case in Buffalo where a Muslim couple was operating a small tv program for the expressed purpose of increasing understanding of Islam.  Everyone was shocked when the husband delivered himself to the local police station carrying a machete and covered in blood to announce that he had just beheaded his wife.  Evidently she had asked for a divorce; he went to the tv station where she was preparing the program and decapitated her.  At trial he fired his lawyer and represented himself (though the judge worked hard to stop him from doing this and  insisted that he at least have access/receive legal advice) where he gave the defense of being abused by his wife - how she repeatedly dishonored him.  He, too, voiced 'surprise' when he was convicted.  It surely is a very different religion/culture.

I have not yet finished reading the Koran (though I understand from an Egyptian pastor that there is a 'western' translation that is not the version read/adhered to in the east).  Yet, I have heard that there is no 'moderate' Islam as, if Muslims adhere to the teachings of the Koran, the world must be brought under the rule of Allah, either by conversion, death, or exacting a crippling tax on those who do not conform to the teachings of Islam (they appear to be speaking as though Sharia Law is meant here); and that no Muslim is allowed to act against these individuals we have labeled 'radical'?

[mogamom]

What's this?  It doesn't sound like open borders is about farming:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/20/editorial-green-cards-on-the-table/

[nlhome]

That's an opinion piece.

[mogamom]

I found this opinion in many places - based on information from government agencies and not logically refuted by the White House?   I guess, coupled with these articles, I wonder if we're getting all the facts:

http://nypost.com/2014/10/25/former-cbs-reporter-explains-how-the-liberal-media-protects-obama/

http://nypost.com/2014/10/27/ex-cbs-reporter-government-related-entity-bugged-my-computer/

[mogamom]

And yet another editorial, showing links:


http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/102914-724077-la-raza-advocacy-amounts-to-encouragement-of-illegal-alien-voting.htm

[nlhome]

What isn't mentioned is the registration process, which requires identification and proof of residence. In order to vote, these folks need to register. That's a lot of contact with government officials that most non-citizens prefer to avoid, at least in my experience.

[marjifay]

Just read a very interesting article in Salon magazine by Davd Maciotra with which I agree:

Sunday, Nov 9, 2014

YOU DON'T PROTECT MY FREEDOM; OUR CHILDISH INSISTENCE ON CALLING SOLDIERS HEROES DEADENS REAL DEMOCRACY
 
It's been 70 years since we fought a war about freedom. Forced troop worship and compulsory patriotism must end

by David Maciotra

http://www.salon.com/2014/11/09/you_dont_protect_my_freedom_our_childish_insistence_on_calling_soldiers_heroes_deadens_real_democracy/?source=newsletter

Marj

[maryz]

From A Word A Day....

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power. -P.J. O'Rourke, writer (b. 1947)

[Frybabe]

I am currently reading Margaret Atwood's book, In Other Worlds: SF and the Human Imagination(2011). In the section on how she came to write The Handmaid's Tale, she asked these questions:

How thin is the ice on which supposedly "liberated" modern Western women stand? How far can they go? How much trouble are they in? What's down there if they fall?

I've been wondering, lately, how easy would it be to lose our hard earned, if not always quite equal yet, gains.

Ms. Atwood is concerned about what the US may become in it's effort to combat "unrelenting religious fanaticisms." She appears to be worried that the more "repressive elements" will prevail. She believes that "American society has moved much closer to the conditions necessary for a takeover of its own power structure by an anti-democratic and repressive government." That is something I worry about too.

I've both read The Handmaid's Tale and seen the movie. The movie is more coherent. The book is written more or less in diary format. The diary having been found years after the fact, now is the subject of academic/symposium concern.

[Frybabe]

I didn't get to finish my thoughts, yesterday. I posted here rather than in women's issues.  Although it certainly is of interest there, I don't participate in that conversation.

Just wanted to add that Atwood said a little about how she decided on the style of dress the women wore. While some had speculated that it was a take off on nun or Muslim dress, she said not. I forget what she said about the veils, but I think it had something to do with styles used in earlier eras. The dress of the Handmaids she styled after, believe it or not, the image on the Dutch cleanser containers.

[BarbStAubrey]

Interesting and now that you bring up the Dutch Cleanser I remember - do not think it is even available any longer

[Frybabe]

800 years old this year: The Magna Carta
http://catoinstitute.tumblr.com/post/121601523136/celebrating-the-800th-anniversary-of-the-magna

[BarbStAubrey]

Interesting site with good information about the existing copies of the Magna Carta

http://www.magnacartaworldheritage.com/surviving-authentic-copies/

[Frybabe]

Thanks, Barb. I didn't know the original was badly damage or that (but should have guessed) that the ink had faded from the early documents so as to be practically illegible.

I would have thought that some of our fancy machines used to tease out the text in such charred documents as the papyrus the Villa of the Papyri at Herculaneum. The villa is situated part way up the slope of Mt. Vesuvius.

 

[BarbStAubrey]

Back in the 1980s I remember being with a small group to an exhibit of the Magna Carta - I can see the exhibit in my mind's eye with pages on display one after the other in glass display boxes that each held about 5 pages to 6 pages each - Probably not the entire charter on display but there were probably upwards to about 20 cases and now after reading this web site I wonder what I saw - was it the eighteenth century copy or an original - I thought I remembered it was an original but we could read it - the exhibit was crowded, not jammed and I do not remember either, where - I remember it was an upstairs room in a museum and since we traveled all over Britain it could have been in a Cathedral museum or maybe a special exhibition in London or just about anywhere.

The most difficult part of reading was the Old English - one of the gals among us had studied the really old old English and so they were able to read and explain to the few of us who stuck like glue to her - I remember most the part where they talked about the peasants have access to the land for hunting, fishing and gathering fallen wood but what caught us all was it emphatically excluded Church owned forests - our mouths dropped and then we found several other decrees, I guess they would be called, that addressed 'rights' for the peasants under the king again, excluding the church - they were not called peasants but I forget what they were called - since there were so few shop keepers and others who did not work the land the group being given freedoms were all attached to a 'lord' as part of the Feudal System.

It has been since that I finally read some 'adult' explanation because like most of us we learned about the Magna Carta in grade school, as a document that first address freedom for all men - in more recent years I learned it was more a document the church was anxious to put out because what it did was keep the superiority of the church over the crown - and with the more recent discovery that they learned who were two of the four scribes and that they were monks - and that the distribution did not happen by the sheriffs by order of the King so now we do have the door key to know who benefited by the Magna Carta - on top of which, I only recently researched and where most kings at the time and even later were not even literate so they depended upon their 'in house' church representative to write all treaties and guide them in the use of the laws on the books and even write their correspondence to other leaders it seems King John was brought up as a child in France and was highly educated.

I find it fascinating to uncover the history of what and how we were taught - and how easy it is to pass along one viewpoint as if the truth - I am guessing as we hear the current axiom because the winners tell the stories.  

[Frybabe]

Thanks for that input Barb, I've started reading a copy I have had on my Kindle for a while. It is a freebie from Project Gutenberg. Just before the start of the text, Gutenberg  had a little blurb that it was a combo/compilation of 10 different versions. Hmmm, says I. I am reading it anyway. Yes, I can see a separation of church and state there. Also, I noticed, especially as money lending is concerned, the authors singled out the Jews and then when on to say that other money lenders were similarly constrained. Why mention the Jews if non-Jewish money lenders or lending schemes are under the same constraints. Similar is not the same as. I haven't read far enough to see if there are differences listed. At any rate I would rather get my hands on the 1733 text which includes the original intact than this 10 version mash-up.

[BarbStAubrey]

Interesting - I went to Amazon to see if there was a book that included the complete original document - and boy did I fall into information and evidently controversy with just who are these scribes that were recently named -

You know how so many of the books on Amazon allow you to read the first chapter as well as any Intro and Preface along with the Table of Contents and sometimes the Bibliography or the complete index - well I am read what I can from the books that show up about the Magna Carta and these author all seem to name one author in particular as "the" man to read - J.C. Holt

Reading the Table of Contents in the excerpt of his book I cannot tell if the charter is included or not but most interesting the first chapter says the Magna Carta was a failure and essentially ignored after 3 months BUT was re-written and they give 3 close years to the original - who knew - I sure did not...

Anyhow after Holt's first book some 20 or so years later he issues another with the latest findings and he includes the preface and all the contents with  from the first book and includes recent find and enlarges the bibliography - Then, more recently, there is a third book updating Holt's work however, he is too old and infirmed to write it and students at his bedside run everything by him. It is in those pages available on Amazon where he says, "rubbish" to the student telling him of the historians naming one of the monks that is supposed to be one of the scribes - sounds like this naming may be opinion rather than fact - now I have to wonder what evidence did they use to name the scribes - again, more current information is in the third book along with everything from the prior books including the preface from the earlier versions.

Then on top there is a book among the list that says it includes the Magna Carta in both English and Latin - huh - Latin - I never knew or heard of this - so what did I see and is the original in Latin - so many questions just authenticating a document written 800 years ago

here is the Amazon link to the second attempt written by Holt
http://www.amazon.com/Magna-Carta-J-C-Holt/dp/0521277787/ref=pd_sim_sbs_14_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1RY2ABMH29HMVXMF2TWQ

[Frybabe]

My head is starting to spin. As far as I know, the original was written in Latin, but I only just discovered that titbit. I don't think I ever thought about whether or not it was written in Old English or Latin, but Latin is a safe bet for many, if not all official documents at that time. Most of those who could read or write learned from the Church, which would have concentrated almost entirely on Latin and maybe Greek. I was aware that the document was revised, I think in 1225, but didn't know they considered the original a failure.

PS: Our National Archives in DC holds one of the four remaining copies of the 1297 version.