Author Topic: First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17 ~ Short Stories  (Read 22464 times)

JoanP

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The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

Book Club Online  Short Stories -- JUNE/JULY



It is said that a good short story should include: * a strong theme, * a fascinating plot, * a fitting structure, * unforgettable characters, * a well-chosen setting, * an appealing style.  Let's consider these elements as we discuss the following stories.  Is it necessary to include them all in a successful story?
 

  
Notice that the titles are all links to the stories.
 
Discussion Schedule:
June 1 -June 9: *The Book of The Funny Smells--and Everything (1872) by Eleanor H Abbott *The Necklace or The Diamond Necklace (1880) -  by Guy de Maupassant
  *A Pair of Silk Stockings (1896) by Kate Chopin
June 10- 14: *Babylon Revisited by F.Scott Fitzgerald
June 15- 17: *First Confession by Frank O'Connor
June 18-20: *A Good Man Is Hard to Find (1953) by Flannery O'Connor  
************************
First Confession by Frank O'Connor

Topics for  Consideration
June 15 - June 17

1. We learn early on about the dynamics in Jackie’s family.  Mother sticks up for him, but is that enough?
 
2. Although the story is relatively short, it appears to have many themes.  What do you think are the themes in this story?

3. How would you describe Mrs Ryan and her techniques for preparing the children for their First Communion and Confession?

4. What is a “bad” confession?

5. How do Mrs Ryan, Nora, and the priest differ in their approach to Jackie?

6. Does Jackie really believe he is a sinner?

7. How would you characterize the priest?

8. This surely has been a learning experience for Jackie.  What about Nora?  


DL Contact: Pedln

pedln

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I’m not Irish and I’m not Catholic, but I have long thought Frank O’Connor’s short story  “The First Confession” one of the most delightful and charming I’ve ever read.  Actually, the first I heard of it was told, at a neighborhood dinner party, by a professor of English who was always a wonderful raconteur.  I was caught.  O’Connor went on my Christmas list and the family obliged.

Frank O’Connor was born Michael O’Donovan, poor, in Cork, Ireland in 1903, and many of his writings are based on his own experiences or centered around life as it was then. " The First Confession" was first published in 1939, but O’Connor rewrote it about a decade later, putting it in the first person, with Jackie as the narrator.   The setting is probably in the first quarter of the 20th century, when "priests became their community’s moral policeman and they played a major role throughout the society”

The story is a short one.  If you haven't had a chance yet to read it, it won't take long.  And in the meantime, share with us your experiences and background regarding the author, Ireland, religious events, multi-generational households, and whatever else you choose.

nlhome

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2013, 09:12:50 AM »
I had read that story long ago. I'm not Catholic either. I think I'll send the link to my husband, a "lapsed" Catholic, and get his input on this one - he was a little boy in a Catholic grade school once, and his elderly grandfather lived with them - may be a good perspective.

pedln

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2013, 09:58:55 AM »
nlhome, welcome.  That would be a good perspective indeed.  I hope he had better relations with his grandfather than Jackie had with his grandmother.

After my grandmother died, my grandfather would visit and stay with different ones of his seven children.  When he stayed at our house there was a door between his bedroom and mine.  I was about ten years old, and at night I would sing to him.  He liked that, and I did too.


jane

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2013, 09:59:03 AM »
What a delightful short story.  I chuckled aloud reading it yesterday.  O'Connor did, I think, a marvelous job of expressing the thoughts of a seven year old boy and his encounters with the "dreaded" older sister and even more dreaded Grandmother.

What a treat!

My husband is a cradle Catholic who rarely misses Mass.  He chuckled, too, while reading it, and turned to me and said with a big grin "Been there, done that!"  He was the youngest and only boy with three older sisters...3 yrs, 7 years, and 12 yrs older than he.  He had lots of "help" with advice on how little boys should behave as a child. He also, unfortunately, had a Grandmother who, while not Irish, could have been Jackie's Grandmother's twin.

jane

PatH

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2013, 10:36:32 AM »
I can't comment yet.  I have to stop laughing first.

JoanP

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2013, 11:00:44 AM »
Been there, done that...

I bet your husband's comments will be the same as Jane's, nlholm!

After I read the story, I wondered what your reactions would be if you hadn't ever been there....  Can you understand  the pressure on a young child...on anyone for that matter, not to make a bad confession?  You've got to do everything you can to remember everything, to convey to the confessor just how bad you've been - or it doesn't count,  In fact, it's a worse sin than the one you are confessing to under report the sins you are confessing.  And the first time before your first confession is the hardest of all.  You've got to remember everything "bad" you've  ever done...

I have never heard someone tell a "confession" story without laughing about it.  Maybe the more serious ones are unmentionable?

pedln

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2013, 12:40:42 PM »
Oh my, what is it about these little boys with older sisters?   They must be bad, right?  :D

Jane, I love your husband's "been there, done that."

JoanP, I'm glad you explained further what was a "bad" confession.  I wasn't quite sure when reading Mrs. Ryan's tale of the man who came to the priest in the night.  What a dilemma for poor Jackie. Will he make a bad confession or will he confess about his plans for Gran.  Can't you visualize the old woman?

New words here, and some great expressions.  What is porter?  The closest I could find was beer.  And "flaking" -- a spanking or a beating?  I've not come across that before.  Poor "heart-scalded" little boy.





PatH

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2013, 12:46:05 PM »
Well, I'm not Irish or Catholic, and my family dynamics were nothing like those in the story, but I can still really relate to it.  What a masterful description of guilt feelings in a young child.  Children tend to feel guilty, no matter what.  They've been scolded, or they know of things they've done.  But at the same time, they feel they can't really be bad.  "I'm ME--I can't be bad."  And like Jackie, they know the background of what they've done.  O'Connor perfectly catches this inner conflict.

PatH

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2013, 12:56:39 PM »
Porter is a dark, strong-tasting beer.  There's a brewery near Portland, OR, that makes a very nice one.  Here's a link to it; they made me say I was over 21 before they let me in. ;D

http://www.deschutesbrewery.com/brew/black-butte-porter

jane

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2013, 04:44:17 PM »
Pedln...I assumed, too, that "flaking" was a spanking.  I looked a bit and found someone asking about it in reference to this short story.  One person said it was verbal criticism, but someone else responded that in 19th and 20th century Ireland it was corporal punishment.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=918788


jane

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2013, 05:20:57 PM »
PatH I too had a roaring good laugh that would not stop - oh the memory of being 6 or 7 and your world was your family and maybe those you played with - every other adult was an authority figure and making a bad confession was the end all. To leave the confessional and be hit by a car and go straight to hell - couldn't get any worse - as we got older we tried to find cracks in the logic - like last rights included an absolution of all your sins and if we were hit by a vehicle we had I think it was 10 minutes of appearing dead to be affected by the last rights - oh my how from about 6th grade on we would find every loophole and crack in every outcome taught to us during those early grades in school.

And the funny happenings in church could be a book of its own. I remember being struck dumb when I was about 12 after I made my confession Father Albert says to me he had a letter needing mailing and on my way home would I mail it for him, calling me by my first name to beg the favor. I was astonished - To think this dark cubbyhole was not a place between me and God with the priest as the go-between - he actually heard me as me. Did I have questions that week in school as I did not say what happened but tiptoed all around it asking about the role of Confession, the role of the priest in confession, how much a priest remembers, how much he alters his opinion of you on and on I peppered I think it was Sr. Agatha Mary - I knew enough to space out my questions so there was not a spotlight on me. Later, months later in the schoolyard talking to one of my friends and she shared how Father Jordan had asked her to remind her mother that the alter society meeting was postponed. That was when I shared my experience - we did not laugh - we each had this dazed look and bobbed our heads in unison.

I guess in our house it was my sister, just younger than me, who was our Nora to my kid brother - she was 10 years older and did not like him at all - our Grandmother was a great asset to us although she never lived with us but lived for awhile with each of my other aunts. It was my father who embarrassed her. He was a big jolly man who teased everyone and walked with this rolling almost rollicking gait. Nothing dignified but could he tell a story - the room lit up when he was in it - my sister liked the quiet studies kind like my Uncle who taught high school. And yep, devote as they come as a kid, then she sorta joined the crowd in High School but a year after high school sure enough off to the convent she went.

How little it takes to have a kid think well of you - all it takes is being respectful, helpful and treating them as if their life is important - love it - read this years ago and re-reading was wonderful - you can hardly read this story without reading it in your head with an Irish brogue - makes the story richer.

 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanK

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2013, 05:46:56 PM »
It is a lovely little story. I have never made confession, but I can just imagine how I would have felt. I can also imagine how much harm the priest could have done if he had reacted differently. My Catholic friends used to talk about Cathlic guilt: now I really understand.

marcie

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2013, 09:08:34 PM »
 I really started to laugh out loud when Jackie was trying to balance himself on the elbow rests in the confessional. "Of course, it was on the high side and not very deep, but I was always good at climbing and managed to get up all right. Staying up was the trouble. There was room only for my knees, and nothing you could get a grip on but a sort of wooden moulding a bit above it." How funny!

How lucky for Jackie to have a "father figure" like the priest in his life. The priest is so imaginative. I can see him as a writer himself.


jane

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2013, 10:00:48 PM »
I think sometimes that adults forget what it was like to be a child.  I think the good Father remembered being a 7 yr old!  :)

marcie

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2013, 11:39:24 PM »
I think you're right, Jane. It seems that the Father might have been like Jack as a little boy. :-)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2013, 02:47:15 AM »
Can you just imagine the usual Saturday Confession with mostly old ladies and then you automatically expecting nothing more slide open the window to the little cage between you and the penitent and out of the corner of your eye because the priests seldom looked at you but straight ahead and this time seeing legs!!??!! Then looking to see what was going on to see a small face looking down on you on an angle - I cannot stop laughing - I think the priest at first was so dumbfounded it took him a minute and then to be so calm and not erupt in scolding or laughing - priceless.

There was a great movie I laughed and laughed that had some of these same aspects although there were no kids involved Death at the Funeral
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neCY4hh1wJg
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

pedln

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2013, 10:50:13 AM »
Quote
What a masterful description of guilt feelings in a young child.  Children tend to feel guilty, no matter what.

That’s so true PatH.  I just recently read in another book a scene where a father shouts a safety warning to his little girl.  “Don’t sit there, never sit there,” he shouts.  And she,  “was I bad?” and he tries to reassure her that she was not.

And guilt.  JoanK, I've seen it in other writings about Catholics, and I'm sure you have too -- where adults speak of the guilt they had as kids, that in Catholic school you always felt guilty.  Have you read The Last Catholic in America by John Powers?  I read it years ago, don't remember much, here's a summary from Amazon --

Quote
First confession and its terrors. Eighty-four first graders in a classroom ruled by just one nun. The agony and the ecstasy of Lent. The dubious honor of being declared the worst altar server ever. Dinah Shore and the Blessed Virgin haunting your dreams. This is Eddie Ryan’s world as he grows up in the intensely Catholic world of South-Side Chicago’s St. Bastion’s parish in the 1950s. In this classic coming-of-age novel, John Powers draws readers into Eddie Ryan’s world with deep affection and bittersweet humor.

Quote
How lucky for Jackie to have a "father figure" like the priest in his life.

That’s a wonderful scene, Marcie, Jane.  Can’t you just picture this little kid hanging on for dear life?  Can’t y ou just hear his little voice?  “Tis me, Father.  I’m making my first confession.” And the priest, “A big hefty fellow like you must have terrible sins.”  And “begor, Jackie, do you know you’re a terrible child?”

Barb, thanks for the link and the suggestion.  It’s always great to have a laugh-out-loud film to watch.  I’ve added it to  my Netflix queue.

And PatH, thanks forl that terrific Porter site.  I think I’ll try Porter Meatloaf or Porter Rack of Lamb.  But they’ll  probably be made with beer, left undrunk by my visiting children, who didn’t like my choice. Will try for Porter for the next visit.  Can’t you picture that old crone, her black cape trying to cover up her drink.

Frank O’Connor is probably best-known for his short stories, but he also was a novelist, a poet, and a dramatist.  He even wrote a memoir,  An Only Child.  This is what he had to say about the short story  .     .       .

Quote
“Frank O’Connor, 1957
[The short story] is the nearest thing I know to lyric poetry… A novel actually requires far more logic and far more knowledge of circumstances, whereas a short story can have the sort of detachment from circumstances that lyric poetry has    [The greatest essential of a story] is you have to have a theme, a story to tell. You grab somebody and say, “Look, an extraordinary thing happened to me yesterday—I met a man—he said this to me—”and that, to me, is a theme. The moment you grab somebody by the lapels and you've got something to tell, that's a real story.”

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2013, 11:52:14 AM »
Cute story, I'm not a Catholic either, but I know from going to a fundamentalist church with my grandmother that HELL is so much more fun than Heaven to talk about!  What would a preacher talk about if he couldn't describe sin?  Our sins.

Who talks about sweet stuff, angels and the like?   What does the media talk about?  What do we listen to in the news?   Murder, wars, hellish stuff.

And what fun the children had talking about their sins.   I had sisters growing up and we had hellish times fighting and remembering our fights.  We still do, the three of us left and they provide us with a lot of laughs now..  Can't remember talking about heaven much.

PatH

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2013, 12:29:06 PM »
Pedln, I take no responsibility for the recipes; I've never tried them.  The food at their Portland restaurant is good, but it doesn't have those items.

JoanK

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2013, 04:06:49 PM »
I love his description of a story! I've never grabbed someone by the lapels, but I sure know that feeling of having a story you've GOT to tell!

nlhome

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2013, 04:19:05 PM »
The image of that little boy climbing and balancing in the confessional make me laugh, too. It's the kind of thing one of my boys would have done at that age.

I asked my husband his thoughts after the story, if he had anyone in his life who reminded him of the grandma or the lady who was so negative about confession. He said he didn't remember any - he did remember making up things to confess to because he didn't have anything real (I find that hard to believe ). What he does remember is the nun with the ruler to slap hands, the year he was put in 4th grade rather than 3rd, where he belonged, and no one noticed until the year was almost over, the times as an altar boy and the priest's wine - I think the humor of the story escaped him, perhaps he was too cynical at a young age?

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2013, 04:40:49 PM »
How we all have memories - mine is receiving a hug in the second grade after the row was filled and I was put in a row with students from the 5th grade who because of their age scared me - as a kid it was my only hug - my family were not huggers and I still remember the feeling of being comforted amid all those black soft robes and then I was put in a row with 4th graders and the girl next to me was asked to take care of me. She sorta looked at me - like examining what was wrong with me but then ignored me - it was OK though because of that attention to my fears I could handle anything.

And I will always be grateful that in 7th and 8th grade I became 'the' Sunday Librarian - The Church and School opened the Library that was more than a children's school library to those adults leaving the 10: 11: and Noon Sunday Mass to walk up the street and up the stairs to return and check out books. What was great was they usually only stayed and checked out for about a half hour and I had the remaining time to read and read and read. Even tried some adult fiction and that's how I read some of the classics.

When I was a kid every household in the parish received annually a visit from one of the priests and two visits a year from a pair of the nuns. The priests visit was to bless the house. I also remember that if a teenage or younger boy got into trouble the first place the sheriff brought the boy was to the rectory where he or a group of hes - seldom girls - were put on the straight and narrow. For months they had to report in and do work around the school or rectory after school hours.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2013, 05:02:36 PM »
So many funny little touches:

"I knew now I wouldn't die in the night and come back, leaving marks on my mother's furniture. It would be a great worry to her, and the poor soul had enough."

JoanP

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2013, 07:20:06 PM »
I was considering the elements of a good short story as stated in the heading here..."unforgettable characters"...
It occurs to me that Frank O'Connor has succeeded in bringing back our own unforgettable childhood experience through this humorous incident.  Are we the unforgettable characters then?

I've never read anything else O'Connor has written - have you?  I'm wondering if they are all stories based on memories from his own childhood?  This isn't the first time we've noted the autobiographical nature of the short stories we are reading.

We're asked about the many themes here - and there have been a number of comments about guilt...instilled the boy's teacher...sister, etc.
There's more to the story than just the idea of the guilt inflicted on a frightened child who has "broken all of the ten commandments on account of that old woman", don't you think?  

Instead of ending the story with a few laughs about the comical unsuccessful attempt to make his first confession, we see the triumph of truth over hypocricy... and the wonderful feeling of peace that follows a "good confession."  I think O'Connor is speaking out against the use of fear in raising a child, but the positive effect of listening and understanding.  I love the story for this.  At one point, the boy comes up with the real truth of the confessional- "this is really a matter between God and me."

I also enjoyed other "funny little touches,  that came out in the telling, PatH.  The "three hail marys"  for example...
nlholme - I remember making things up too when I had nothing to confess - or "forgetting to say my morning and night prayers" was always useful. :D

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2013, 12:32:14 AM »
I am remembering those Hail Mary's and Our Father's - we hated it if we had Our Father's but I remember saying the Hail Mary's when ever I was scared even into adulthood - As a kid I and probably every kid had no idea what we were saying or what it meant and yet, those prayers became a part of our emotional and buried DNA. Ritual with no thought that we were building within something that was a plea for hope.

This reminds me I have had on my Amazon list for awhile now - Myth & Christianity: An Inquiry Into The Possibility Of Religion Without Myth  - written by two of Germany's most prestige thinkers of the twentieth century -  Karl Jaspers (philosopher) and Rudolf Bultmann (Theologian) - realizing how much myth was drummed into us it would be a great search to find out if it had any value then or now and how it affected our life.

Found this site about writing various types of humor - http://library.thinkquest.org/J002267F/types_of_humor.htm It appears O'Connor used, "Situational Humor: this is comedy that comes from your own life. No one in your audience will have heard it and it can get a group used to you. This type of humor is based on a humorous situation that you have experienced." and also he used, "Understatement: making something that is regular or large seem extremely smaller or less. Intentionally down- sizing a large object." And finally he throws an overarching bit of "Satire: wit that is critical humor. Satire is sarcasm that makes fun of something."

I thought he was making good fun of taking a child's thoughts and small misconduct to the level of sin, worthy of a confession almost mocking the concept of confession.

Found this site on writing humor and these two sentences popped out - "No matter what sort of story a person is writing, the main subject must be introduced before anything can begin to happen to him. This is especially true when writing humor because if you spend too much time with the introduction, you will lose both the pace and timing necessary to make humor work." http://www.jimforeman.com/Books/WriteHumor/humor_ch05.htm
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

marcie

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2013, 02:19:23 AM »
PatH and JoanP, those are very funny parts of the story. The grandmother is awful and Nora seems like a bully. Jackie sees himself as the "bad one." The priest is using the tactic of taking Jackie seriously to address Jackie's concerns. Their exchanges are quite funny.  Barbara, thanks for the information about the components of humor. I like the following dialog which I think illustrates the situational humor and understatement:

"And she goes round in her bare feet, father," I went on in a rush of
self-pity, "and she knows I don't like her, and she gives pennies to Nora and none to me,
 and my da sides with her and flakes me, and
one night I was so heart-scalded I made up my mind I'd have to kill her."
"And what would you do with the body? "he asked with great
interest.
"I was thinking I could chop that up and carry it away in a barrow I
have," I said.
"Begor, Jackie," he said, "do you know you're a terrible child?
"I know, father," I said, for I was just thinking the same thing
myself. "I tried to kill Nora too with a bread-knife under the table,
only I missed her."
Is that the little girl that was beating you just now?" he asked.
Tis, father."
"Someone will go for her with a bread-knife one day, and he won't
miss her," he said rather cryptically. "You must have great courage.
Between ourselves, there's a lot of people I'd like to do the same to,
but I'd never have the nerve. Hanging is an awful death."
Is it, father? "I asked with the deepest interest-I was always very
keen on hanging. "Did you ever see a fellow hanged?"
"Dozens of them," he said solemnly. "And they all died roaring."
"Jay ! " I said.
Oh, a horrible death ! " he said with great satisfaction.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2013, 03:48:48 AM »
That is a good bit Marcie to see the elements of humor and you can feel the rhythm by the repetition of "I said".

I have to chuckle at his believing his Grandmother is just awful - haha - she is simply a country person with a poverty of things...

She reminds me of many a Cajun family who often re-create the past that was not so long ago spreading newspaper on the table and dumping the contents of a large boil pot that usually included whatever fish and shell fish was caught along with potatoes, Andouillette sausage, and pieces of corn on the cob. Bowls of salt and melted butter in the center and more newspaper or with a nod to today rolls of paper towels for napkins. And yep, most at the table are in bare feet.

There is a restaurant on Aransas Island near Corpus that re-creates the meal serving it the same way. Their boil pot always includes some crab legs and shrimp so on the newspaper covered table are small wooden hammers alongside one other nod to today, a fork.   
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

pedln

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2013, 10:18:11 AM »
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Are we the unforgettable characters then?
   Yes!!!

I love your memories.  Like Little Red RidingHood’s grandmother – “the better to see you with, my dear.”  Ella, fighting with her sisters and dreaming of hell, little primary Barb having to sit with the big kids – really scary.  And unbelievably, nlhome’s husband in the wrong grade?  For a year?  JoanP, thinking, “what did I do bad?”

Marcie, I agree, the grandmother is a bully, used to getting her own way.  Jackie may be a bit of a mama’s boy --  at any rate, he seems to be echoing some of his mother’s complaints about her mother-in-law, the old woman whose ways embarrass both of them.

That restaurant sounds like a lot of fun, Barb, and one with a lot of atmosphere.  I’ll bet you can wear old jeans and a t-shirt, too.

 Interesting links about humor, especially the explanation of “situational” humor.  Some of the folks I know are great joke and story tellers, and one of things they do is to personalize their story – even if it was something they read in Readers Digest.  And it grabbed you by the lapels – “My daughter was telling about one of the teachers she works with .   .   .    ., “Aunt Clyde was walking to work when .   .    .   .”  “oh gosh, the Johnsons were telling about their brother-in-law on his way to Texas .    .     .”

JoanP, I wondered too, about whether all O’Connor’s stories were based on memories of his childhood.  Many, but not all, of his stories are about children.  Richard Ellmann, the editor of my copy of Collected Stories (O’Connor)  had this to say about O'Connor's writings in general:

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“Detachment from his own country was not one of FO’C’s aims. Nobody was more aware than he of the mules, crows,  and foxes . .   .  gazelles and doves who populated in human form his island home.  His stories perserve in ink like amber his perceptive, amused, and sometimes tender observations of the fabric of Irish customs, pieties, superstitions, loves, and hates.”

O’Connor was an only child, and his memoir is entitled An Only Child.  His father ex-military, and also an alcoholic.  His mother worked daily as a house cleaner and bore the brunt of her husband’s anger when he couldn’t have her wages for drink.

Are "First Confessions" still a terrifying element for children?

Somewhere online  an Irish-American mom compared her son’s first confession with her early childhood confession experience.

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“Everything is far more relaxed nowadays, compared to when I was young. Multiple Hail Mary’s and Our Father’s are no longer doled out as penance.  Even the austere, wooden confessionals of years gone by have disappeared.”

And what does her son think?  “Mom, will God tell Santa that I am on the “good” list now that I’m forgiven?”


JoanP

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2013, 10:37:43 AM »
At first reading, it seems so easy to write a charming little story like this, doesn't it?  Simply call up an memorable experience from the past and make it funny as you tell about it.  
My "three hail mary's story"...I was in 4th grade.  Because the oldest of five, I was given a dollar bill to buy looseleaf paper for everyone.  I sat through classes all morning folding the bill into a one inch square.  Left it on my desk when I went to the blackboard, when I got back the dollar bill was gone.  I had every reason to believe the boy behind me had taken it - so followed him to corner store after school where I caught him spending the folded bill.  I demanded it back, he refused to admit it was mine.  I had no proof.  Went home despondant.

  Housekeeper's purse was hanging open on a doorknob, bills showing.  I TOOK a dollar from her purse to buy looseleaf.  Clearly a sin.  Clearly something to confess.
My penance...to repay the dollar.  Told the priest I had no money to repay.  He then told me to tell my father what I had done.  I asked him if I couldn't just say three hail marys instead.  He insisted in order to be absolved, I'd have to tell my father.  Despondant again.  Scared to death to tell father.  The next day was First Friday - the whole class would be going to Mass together - and communion.  I'd have to sit in the pew if I didn't tell my father.  Still too scared.  So the next morning I got up really early while he was still sleeping, went up to him quietly and whispered what I had done.  He did say mmm..., but nothing else.  I decided that I had done my penance.  Carried this with me for years, but never retold it in confession.  Finally told my father years later.  Not sure he understood, or even paid much attention to me then, either.

I realize my story isn't funny - the point is, it takes a special skill and know-how to tell a story as Frank O'Connor did.  So many elements in one story.  Barbara, you've got me considering the family dynamic...and I now feel sorry for granny who finds herself in this  unwelcoming environment unable to get outside.  I got the impression she is Dad's mother, and that Jackie's mother is under quite a bit of stress  with her mother-in-law confined to her home full time - barefoot and bringing all sorts of conflict between the children, Jackie and Dad...probably mom and dad.  It's all there in this short story, but our attention is focused on Jackie and his first confession.




pedln

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2013, 10:38:30 AM »
This story and our discussion here brings back a memory of someone who, although an adult, was very concerned about going to church. One of my colleagues, when I was a young, brand new teacher, was also a brand new teacher from out of town, now living on her own for the first time.  Her father was a Methodist minister and periodically  she would make a weekend trip home to visit her parents. But she was very nervous about an upcoming visit. "I don't know what to do.  I can't go home this weekend.  This Sunday is when people sign the pledge cards that they have not taken any alcoholic drinks this past year.  I can't sign one, and my father will know I didn't sign."

I was brought up in the Methodist church, but this was something new to me.  And I don't remember how it ended.  I think she just didn't go visit her family that weekend.

I've also been thinking about a friend's grandson.  My friend's daughter is homeschooling her four children, ages 1 to 8, and Becky mentioned that the 8-year-old had recently made his first communion -- and of course, his first confession, which went well. He just had to wait in line a long time.  The daughter was not brought up in the Catholic church, I assume she converted when she got married. But now I'm wondering how the little boy prepared for all this.  Maybe someone here can answer.

JoanP

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2013, 10:50:20 AM »
Pedln, we're typing at the same time.   You're right - things have "lightened up" these days.  They've even removed the confessional stalls from most churches.  You say confession face to face, talking to the priest about your transgressions.  (I kind of liked not seeing who I was talking to)...
I imagine that your friend's child, though home-schooled, probably went to Sunday school for his prepartion for first communion and confession.

I loved O'Connor's ending.  Was it expected?   Jackie wondered if all religious people were like his sister, with her outward exhibition of devotion...O'Connor gives us the answer through the priest's handling of Jackie's confession.  I loved it when Nora asked him if he's confessed everything about granny, about attacking her with the butter knife.  And he had!  "All of it," he tells her.  And after all that, he is rewarded - a walk with the priest, and a mouthfull of bullseyes.  Super ending!

JoanK

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2013, 03:01:11 PM »
And his penance is three hail Marys. The priest saw that his sister was bullying him, and set his penance as less than hers, I'll bet. He gets his revenge.

What a lot of memories this has brought up.

salan

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2013, 04:21:00 PM »
I found this story charming.  I was raised in the Methodist church, but my father was a lapsed Catholic and my mother had been brought up as "hard-shelled" Baptist.  They chose the Methodist Church as a middle ground.  My paternal grandmother was not happy about this.  She used to take us to church with her sometimes.  I was fascinated with her rosary and had her teach me "Hail Mary".  I remember thinking that it would be nice to have a priest to forgive all your sins.  Pergutory used to make sense to me.
Sally

pedln

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2013, 07:06:21 PM »
JoanK, absolutely right -- the priest knew what was what between Nora and Jackie. And as someone mentioned earlier, he was a good father figure for Jackie.

Sally, it's good to see you here, and so interesting to learn about everyone's early religious backgrounds. 

We've been having very noisy thunderstorms with lots of lightning and heavy heavy rain.  Back later.

jane

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2013, 07:22:01 PM »
Thank you, Pedln, for this delightful story.  I'm still chuckling over various parts of Jackie's experience.

jane

marcie

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2013, 08:57:50 PM »
I too have enjoyed this story and everyone's memories related to it.

JoanP, I really felt for your predicament as a 4th grader. I don't think I would have had the nerve to follow the culprit to the store and ask for the $1 back. I admire your ingenuity in waking up early to whisper your admission to your father. :-)

pedln

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2013, 10:59:53 PM »
JoanP, I think your story about telling your father about the dollar you took from the housekeeper is a sad one, but with some elements of humor.  After all, it was a very ingenious solution to a perplexing problem.  I have an image in my mind of your father trying to put a pillow over his head, to keep your little voice out of his ear.

This has been a fun discussion.  I've enjoyed it and appreciate everyone's comments and everyone being so candid and forthcoming  sharing your own experiences.  For sure there are other things we could also have touched on -- Mrs Ryan and her scary teaching techniques, for one, a child's fear of the unknown for another, but this was a good stopping place for our taste of O'Connor.

And tomorrow we will start with another taste of F. O'Connor -- this time with American writer Flannery O'Connor's A Good Man is Hard to Find.

marcie

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2013, 12:50:14 AM »
Thanks, Pedln, for a wonderful discussion.

Yes, on Tuesday we'll start talking about another story by an O'Connor (not related). We'll be moving here:  A GOOD MAN IS HARD TO FIND.

This discussion will be left open for additional thoughts.

JoanP

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Re: Short Stories - First Confession by Frank O'Connor ~ June 15-17
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2013, 09:05:40 AM »
Yes, thank you so much, Pedln... this was fun!  Went by  too fast. I'm going to read more of Frank O'Connor.  Thought you might find this of interest -
  the Frank O'Connor International Short Story Award...
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"The Cork City - Frank O'Connor International Short Story Award is an annual award of €25,000 and is currently the world's richest prize for the short story form. The award is in memory of the late Frank O'Connor, one of the world's most renowned short story writers"

The prize is awarded to the author of the book judged to be the best collection of stories published in English for the first time anywhere in the world in the twelve months between a first publication date of between July 1st of the prior year and June 30th of the current year.

The Shortlist for the 2013 Frank O’Connor International Short Story Award consists of six titles.

 
1) Tea at the Midland and other stories – David Constantine – Comma Press, UK
 2) Siege 13 – Tamas Dobozy – Milkweed Editions, USA/ Thomas Allen, Canada
 3) Black Vodka – Deborah Levy – & Other Stories, UK
 4) Black Dahlia & White Rose – Joyce Carol Oates – Harpercollins, USA
 5) We’re Flying - Peter Stamm – Granta, UK/ Other Press LLC
 6) Battleborn - Claire Vaye Watkins – Granta UK/Riverhead Books USA

The winning book will be announced in the first week of July

Don't know about you - I'm unfamiliar with most of the names on the list - but when I see Joyce Carol Oates name on the list, I can't help but compare what I know of her work, to the gentle story we just read.

We're discussing these stories chronologically - perhaps they are representative of the period in which they are written.  You need to hold on to your bonnets as we move from the thirties to the fifties with Flannery O'Connor's A Good Man is Hard to Find .