Author Topic: Greater Journey, The by David McCullough ~July Book Club Online (Read 68157 times)

JoanP · « **Reply #80 on:** July 20, 2014, 02:33:50 PM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.

July Book Club Online

The Greater Journey: Americans in Paris
by David McCullough

"Magnifique! I should have known--McCullough is one of my favorite history writers, and he's writing about nineteenth-century Paris, one of my favorite places to read/think/dream about. When I was young I always wanted to go to Paris--but not Francois Mitterand's Paris. No, I wanted Degas' Paris, Balzac's Paris, Toulouse-Lautrec's Paris. Well, this was an extended visit to that same Paris but through fresh eyes." Goodreads review

"In The Greater Journey, David McCullough tells the enthralling, inspiring—and until now, untold—story of the adventurous American artists, writers, doctors, politicians, and others who set off for Paris in the years between 1830 and 1900, hungry to learn and to excel in their work. What they achieved would profoundly alter American history." Amazon review
Discussion Schedule:
Week 1 - July 14 - 20 ~ Part I/ Chapters 1 & 2
Week 2 - July 21 - 27 ~ Part I/ Chapters 3 & 4
Week 3 - July 28 - Aug. 3 ~ Part II/ Chapters 5 & 6
Week 4 - Aug. 4 - 10 ~ Part II/ Chapters 7 & 8
Week 5 - Aug. 11 - 17 ~ Part III/ Chapters 9, 10, 11
Week 6- Aug. 18 - 24 ~ Part III/ Chapters 12,13,14

Relevant Links

David McCullough-Brian Lamb Intervew (Books TV) ; David McCullough-Charlie Rose; Biography - David McCullough; Morse's Interactive Gallery of the Louvre

Some Topics for Discussion
July 21 - 27

Part I ~ Chapter 3 ~ Morse at the Louvre

1. Willis said in a crowd he could always recognize an American. Why and how, do you think?

2. As Americans abroad, they felt that their behavior was even more important, as reflecting on their country. Do you agree?.

3. "The nose is too short - the eye too small'. Have you ever dealt with a kibitzer like Cooper was to Morse? How did you handle it?

4. If you were painting a painting like Morse's and could chose any paintings in the world, what would you chose?

5. What do you think of the type of painting Morse did? Was it valuable? Is such a painting still valuable?

6. Can you imagine a scene like that at the Louvre in an American gallery? How does the Louvre differ from a modern American art gallery?

Part I ~ Chapter 4. The Medicals

1. Does the condition of medical education at the time shock you? How much useful knowledge do you think the doctors actually had to impart to their students?

2. What does the difference between attitudes toward examination of female students and dissection of corpses say about the two societies?

3. Do you think surgeons ever still operate with the aim of performing the operation, rather than saving the patient? Are there still doctors who treat their patients with distain?

4. What instances do we see where exposure to a new culture caused major shifts in the world view of one of our characters? Is that what travel does? Can you find such instances in your own life?

5. What does this chapter say about the interplay between scientific and artistic thinking? Which do DM portray more vividly: the artists or the scientist/medicals?

6. The political changes in France don't seem to have affected our characters' lives at all. How much do you suppose this generation was affected by the revolutionary ideas of the generation before?

Discussion Leaders: JoanP, PatH Barb, JoanK, Marci

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #81 on:** July 20, 2014, 03:38:15 PM »

hahaha I can hardly stop laughing - rummaging through a drawer of old recipe books I found this gem from before the Civil War reprinted in a recipe book from an insurance company in 1910 - oh lordy haha - How to cook a Groundhog -

- No wonder they were enamored with the food served in Paris.

Take one skinned groundhog entrails removed - well I would hope so -

OH my, then it says, whatever you do do NOT throw away the skin - the finest banjos use a Ground Hog hide for the drum of the banjo.

Try to get a young or middle age hog. Your old groundhog will be tough - well that is really requiring an eye for the measure of a ground hog while hunting don't you think -

Cut it up and remove the "strong Bone" which is under the front armpits. - OK -

For old groundhogs, soak in strong salt water for about one hour, and with one teaspoon of vinegar added. I guess some hunters do not have it down getting an old groundhog from a young or middle aged one so all is not lost -

Rinse in fresh water, Boil for 13 to 20 minutes in water with 1 teaspoon baking soda added. - Boil, oh my, this sounds like cooking shoe leather

Rinse and boil for 10 minutes more - well when the old song about 'boil that cabbage down' they sure knew about boiling food - no taste left but then, what taste I wonder would a groundhog offer.

For a young groundhog eliminate the "baking Soda Step" - Now, take your flour and cornmeal of equal proportions along with salt and pepper and mix together on paper, add the groundhog, gather in the ends and shake it good so the ingredients even up on it. Then fry it at low speed and prick it with a fork. When the fork penetrates easily, put it on a higher fire and brown. Dash on a little meat sauce. Serve with cornbread and vegetables. - meat sauce could be either Worcestershire or A1, both were available in America by the 1830s

pedln · « **Reply #82 on:** July 20, 2014, 03:45:40 PM »

Just what I was wishing for -- an interactive of Morse's Gallery of the Louvre. Scroll down

Gallery of the Louvre

JoanK · « **Reply #83 on:** July 20, 2014, 04:30:21 PM »

What riches today! I'll do the interactive tour later. Now I'm stuck on Jean's catalog of culture.

I couldn't resist "the Bee in the Tar Barrel." Turns out to be a political bee -- buzzing around. I know a few of those: the issues and names have changed, but the buzzing is the same:

http://www.readme.it/libri/Letteratura%20Americana/The%20bee%20in%20the%20tar-barrel.shtml

JoanK · « **Reply #84 on:** July 20, 2014, 04:39:02 PM »

I'll be leading the next section, not Ella. Since I may be late in tomorrow, I'm welcoming you to it now. The questions will be up.

Having been an American living abroad, I'm interested in how much some of the experiences of our young Americans were similar to mine in a very different country and century. Has anyone else lived abroad?

And of course, I want to follow my not-even-kissing cousin Morse, as he paints his painting AND gets the idea for the telegraph. So much for the famous split between Art and Science. We see both in these chapters, and I wonder which comes through more strongly, Which is more interesting: the artists, the medicals, or the struggle to decide whether medicine is a science or an art?

mabel1015j · « **Reply #85 on:** July 20, 2014, 05:11:54 PM »

I can't even imagine starting a project like Morse's Gallery of the Louvre, i didn't realize that he was not just recreating one gallery, but picked out pictures to include in "his gallery."

On the next page, picture #13, do you suppose that is a wig of curls that Emma Willard is wearing?

I won't tell you the story about the time my mother cooked a ground hog my brother brought home from hunting them on my uncle's farm. That was about 1950. I don 't know what "recipe" she used, but it sure stunk when she was cooking it. I'm not sure i even tasted it.

Jean

salan · « **Reply #86 on:** July 20, 2014, 05:25:06 PM »

Pedlin, I never knew that Morse was a painter, either. It is interesting how many artist were also inventors. I guess the creative gene takes many forms. I couldn't help wondering how Morse managed his 6 x 9 foot painting in the Louvre. Did the artists have to carry their works back & forth or did they just leave them there? Even if the canvas was rolled up, it would be hard to manage & what kept the paint from getting smeared?
Sally

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #87 on:** July 20, 2014, 06:27:28 PM »

Goodness notice the Mona Lisa right there at the bottom with no fan fair like today

PatH · « **Reply #88 on:** July 20, 2014, 08:13:36 PM »

Jean and Barb, you point out very well that we were emerging from carving out a livelihood in a new country, killing off the natives to get them out of our way

, fighting our way to independence, etc., and though we had paid attention to cultural and artistic matters almost from the start, it was still taking a while to get up to speed.

Now we see these Americans, hit in the face with a full-blown artistic scene, just drinking it in. Charles Sumner, who knows nothing about music, goes to see Don Giovanni, and is carried away by it's "singular power". "He had never heard anything like it, never known such feelings as swept over him". That was a good place for him to start; it's a very powerful opera, full of wonderful themes, with a story line playing on all sorts of emotions, and hugely dramatic. I wonder how he knew what was going on (it's in Italian) but it would be impressive even with just a summary.

marjifay · « **Reply #89 on:** July 20, 2014, 09:39:41 PM »

I have just started Chapter 1. Very interesting. What a lot of talented, some multi-talented, people, a few of whom I'd heard a little about but want to read more. Charles Sumner was really a handsome hunk! Was surprised to learn that Morse was a portrait painter. How on earth did Emma Willard manage to arrange all those curls, or maybe it was a wig?

I had to stop reading temporarily. The letters describing their sea voyages was making me seasick! It really took nerve to make a voyage like that. Too bad they didn't have our seasick medicine.

I would have thought they'd have preferred England since they knew the language. But I guess France was the place to go to learn art, medicine, etc. I'm going to have to read about France to see why they became such leaders in learning and the arts. I visited Paris for a short while some time ago, but preferred southern France

Marj

mrssherlock · « **Reply #90 on:** July 20, 2014, 10:06:40 PM »

Duh! As a reader of science fiction I am familiar some how some SF writers describe the process of establishing a colony. Some writers have sent colonists back to Terra/the earth and relate vividly culture shock. Seems obvious to me now that science fiction is not far removed from the study of history.

JoanK · « **Reply #91 on:** July 20, 2014, 11:01:39 PM »

I wondered about not going to England, too. DM casually mentions some of them spending a short time learning French, like it was something you could pick up in a few weeks. The medicals would really have to learn fast to be able to understand the lectured they were attending. Even if they had studied French in America, I'll bet they hadn't learned the specialized medical and anatomical terms they needed.

JoanK · « **Reply #92 on:** July 20, 2014, 11:04:24 PM »

I had the same experience Willis had: after living abroad for awhile, I could spot another American a mile away in a crowd, but had no idea how I knew. What do you think it was?

JoanP · « **Reply #93 on:** July 21, 2014, 08:47:51 AM »

Isn't this fun! McCullough has us questioning the veracity of story he tells! What a great question! How did the American "Medicals" learn enough French to attend lectures in which a grasp of highly specialized vocabulary would be required? Maybe it would have been easier in England - absent the language barrier -BUT maybe the English students were also in Paris to learn of the new techniques the French had discovered from the readily available corpses used in autopsies.

bellamarie · « **Reply #94 on:** July 21, 2014, 08:54:21 AM »

I have never had the privilege to visit Paris, it is on my bucket list, but I can say I told my hubby this morning, that if ever we manage to get there I feel like from reading this book, I just may feel familiar to the places and sites we would be seeing.

I especially love the atmosphere and attitude the Americans describe in their letters they write back to their American relatives.

"For many who frequented the garden, whether to walk or to linger comfortably on a shaded bench or hired chair, the children were the favorite part of the show, all happily laughing and running about, all amazingly (to the Americans) chattering away in French, while watched over by immaculate, full-skirted Swiss maids. "I have been there repeatedly since I have been in Paris, and have seen nothing like the children." Nathaniel Willis reported to his readers in the New York Mirror. "They move my heart always, more than anything under heaven." It was enough to make one forget Napoleon and his wars.

But then Paris was a continuing lesson in the enjoyment to be found in such simple, unhurried occupations as a walk in a garden or watching children at play or just sitting observing the human cavalcade. One learned to take time to savor life, much as one too time to savor a good meal or glass of wine. The French called it "l'entente de la vie," the harmony of life.

Do you suppose this is the same attitude today as back in the 1930's? We Americans are so rushed it makes me wonder if we are missing so much of the little things in life to just enjoy, like the little children at play.

Ciao for now~

p.s. I am a bit behind in my reading. There truly is so many names introduced I can barely keep up with who is who....

JoanP · « **Reply #95 on:** July 21, 2014, 09:00:33 AM »

Don't worry too much about the names, Bella...if you read through the beginning posts, you will realize what we are all beginning to see. McCullough is narrowing the list of names...as the Americans are forming their own circles of friends. Our posters have been helping one another with the names too! Read through the posts! Should make catching up easier for you!

I thought it was interesting to learn that J Fenimore Cooper and Sam Morse (JoanK's cousin a few times removed) were fast friends for 7 years previous to their arrival in Paris. They had met at the White House! Their circle will expand in these chapters...

JoanP · « **Reply #96 on:** July 21, 2014, 09:37:35 AM »

Just spotted another American in our midst! Welcome, Marjifay! Will watch for your comments once you recover from the sea journey - and can answer your own question - why not study in England - no language barrier. Makes you wonder if Americans were also choosing to study abroad in England at this same time, doesn't it? Do you think there may still be hard feelings between England and America?

I reread Nathaniel Willis's description of Americans he was able to spot:
Americans did not resemble the French dandies, fresht from their hairdressers...whitest gloves. More and Copper - kind
Morse and Cooper left different impressions on him...Morse's open face - kind and sincere...Cooper, a "cameleon face" - difficult to read - an expression of moodiness and reserve."

My own experience when a student in France - when spotting other Americans...hmm. Obviously the struggle with the language, otherwise an air of independence....

pedln · « **Reply #97 on:** July 21, 2014, 10:47:26 AM »

Morse put so much into the Gallery of the Louvre, yet it did not bring the success he had hoped it would. One wonders why.

Quote

3. "The nose is too short - the eye too small'. Have you ever dealt with a kibitzer like Cooper was to Morse?

No. I think Cooper was just trying to be funny, kidding. I don’t think he really meant what he said.

More about the painting from National Public Radio. JoanP and PatH – did either of you get to see the exhibition of this back in 2011-2012 – at the National Gallery?

Best of the Louvre

Quote

He had hoped that this painting was going to make his career but also to get him out of debt. And he was going to put it on exhibit and charge an admission fee. Well, it didn't work. The crowds did not come. And then he sold it for much, much less than he ever anticipated. But years later, in the 1980s, that painting sold for over $3 million, which was the largest sum ever paid - until then - the largest sum ever paid for an American work of art.

PatH · « **Reply #98 on:** July 21, 2014, 12:25:51 PM »

Pedln, JoanK was already on the west coast in 2011. I saw it, but didn't linger.

A medical student who could afford to go abroad would definitely go to Paris if he felt he could handle the language--it was the best. You recall that in Wives and Daughters, which takes place close to the same time, the English medical students went there too if they could. (Edinburgh, where Molly's father studied, was considered the next best place.) I don't think the technical vocabulary would add that much to the already formidable burden of quickly picking up a working knowledge of French. Everyone probably used a lot of Latin terms, and scientific vocabularies tend to be somewhat recognizable in different languages.

Jonathan · « **Reply #99 on:** July 21, 2014, 01:40:16 PM »

The only unpleasant peope he meets in Paris are Englishmen. That's an indication of the feeling Americans had about England. For many years back then America and France had a common enemy - England. But they had so much else in common then, primarily the revolutionary spirit. Liberty, equality, independence, fraternity Of course there was still much of the aristocracy left in France, but they didn't make it into the pictures that Morse copied. Also left out were the French Churchmen, Catholics, of course. Morse's anti-Catholic feelings were so very strong, also a reflection of the feelings of many of his fellow countrymen

What an irony to take us from the Louvre, Morse's Louvre, to the Hotel Dieu, the largest of the hospitals, with 'its 1,400 beds, served more than 15,000 patients a year, and as in all Paris Hospitals, patients were treated free of charge.' I suspect they were all run by Catholic organizations. Served by sisters of mercy.

I'm not so sure about acquiring a medical education in foreign lands. These students may well have brought back knowledge of diseases unknown at home. And that may have been worse than useless. Ask any pharmaceutical salesman. Every country has special needs.

Stay away from those hospitals, Marj, if you're feeling sick. Just making the rounds and looking over the surgeon's shoulder cured me of wanting any further medical knowledge.

JoanK · « **Reply #100 on:** July 21, 2014, 03:32:16 PM »

DM has a way of painting scenes for us, doesn't he? Morse, up on his scaffold with Cooper kibitzing and crowds gawking. Those "rounds" at the hospital with dozens of students crawling over each other and over the patient to see. Can you imagine being the patient? If I wasn't dead, I would have high-tailed it out of there as fast as I could go.

JoanK · « **Reply #101 on:** July 21, 2014, 03:37:39 PM »

"As Americans abroad, they felt that their behavior was even more important, as reflecting on their country."

I had trouble with this living abroad. Occasionally, I would see an American acting rudely, and feel embarrassed. Then I would think "why am I embarrassed -- I'm not responsible for their actions? There are rude people in all countries."

There is an unfortunate tendency people have when we meet a person from another culture: to think "Oh, that's what they are like" instead of "that's what THIS PERSON is like." Especially if it's something negative. I also had to deal with a lot of negative stereotypes of Americans when abroad.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #102 on:** July 21, 2014, 03:46:43 PM »

Good thought JoanK. How often we take on the responsibilities of others behaviors and stress ourselves beyond need.

Jean

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #103 on:** July 21, 2014, 07:57:16 PM »

It was quite a show - Morris on his scaffold and Cooper coaching from below. Personally, I can't imagine why Morris decided to take on such a huge project other than he thought he might tour America with his painting, charge admission and at the same time teach Americans the great masterpieces of the French.

Nathaniel Willis believed he could spot Americans in a crowd because they had the "bearing of a man unused to looking up to anyone as his superior." In other words, an independent spirit. Rudeness? Perhaps it could be judged so by the French - even today - but we walk unafraid of soldiers and guards. Our constitution guranteed freedoms unheard of in the old world.

However, all the Americans abroad revered Lafayette and moreover Jefferson, Franklin and Adams had lived in Paris for a time and no doubt influenced these young men.

"Consumption" was tuberculosis and as a child I remember it was still dreaded in America among older people. In my city,there was a T.B. sanitarium and I had an aunt who allegedly died at an early age from the disease.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #104 on:** July 21, 2014, 08:17:00 PM »

I've never read THE LAST OF THE MOHICIANS, what am i missing? And it was a movie also I believe. America must have been so beautiful without being plastered all over with paved roads and cities and tall buildings. Still, I am grateful I live in today's world, particularly when I read the chapter on the "medicals.'

Cooper particularly was welcomed by Parisians and liked; his books were well received in Paris, he and his wife were wined and dined by French society and he enjoyed the popularity; although he privately called many of the French "simpletons."

Both Cooper and Morse took their roles as American gentlemen abrod and felt their deportment was a reflection on their country. Wouldn't you have liked to have met either of them or both, or listened in when they were havig a musical?

I was surprised that Benjamin West was encountered by Morse. If I remember correctly West figured largely in McC's ADAMS book.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #105 on:** July 21, 2014, 09:08:28 PM »

My favorites were the Deerslayer and the Pioneer - Even as a kid, I always thought the Last of the Mohicans too melodramatic for me.

Have never been to the Hospital in Paris however, the Hospices de Beaune, now a museum where kindness to all was dispensed, regardless of station in life, along with XV century medicine which at a glance seemed to depend a great deal on giant size paintings of various Saints and Jesus for healing - I have to imagine that three hundred plus years later there were leaps forward in scientific knowledge although, reading elsewhere, cures included many many opieds - the side affect being, patients at least died in mindless oblivion to their pain.

JoanK · « **Reply #106 on:** July 21, 2014, 09:41:30 PM »

I tried reading "Mohicans" as a child and couldn't get into it. Maybe I'll try "Deerslayer"

I didn't remember West from the Adams book. What role did he play inn Adams' life?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #107 on:** July 22, 2014, 10:04:58 AM »

Correcdion: (Thanks JoanK) It was Benjamin Rush who figured in Adams book.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #108 on:** July 22, 2014, 10:14:13 AM »

and on the light hearted side here is a delightful list of 17 food reasons the French are better at life.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/22/french-cuisine-food-better_n_5605956.html

marjifay · « **Reply #109 on:** July 22, 2014, 11:25:26 AM »

I remember The Last of the Mohicans from the card game, Authors, we played as youngsters. Never read it though. Watched the very good 1992 movie of it with Daniel Day-Lewis.

Amazon sent me a recommendation for a new book, HOW PARIS BECAME PARIS; THE INVENTION OF THE MODERN CITY by Joan DeJean, which looks interesting. My library has it (307 pp) so I''ve added it to my bloated TBR list.

Marj

JoanP · « **Reply #110 on:** July 22, 2014, 11:40:22 AM »

That's the trouble with this book club, Marj. Your TBR pile continues to grow! I've put aside Last of the Mohicans too - and turned to Fenimore Cooper's The Deerslayer. I'm also thinking that I need to add Victor Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame to my list too.

In these last chapters of Part I, McCullough considers the education of American students in the fields of ART and MEDICINE. He seems to be considering Medicine as an art, doesn't he?

ART - I've been puzzling over the "copyist tradition" as a means of learning to become an artist. This seems to have been the accepted way to learn to paint. Is it today? I don't think I'd like to learn to express myself in art by copying what someone else had done already.

McCullough tells us that Samuel Morse was the first American to copy the masterpieces in the Louvre. It's astonishing that he was able to mimic the great masters! It is astonishing to copy even one artist as flawlessly as he did...but imagine all of the different styles that he was able to master! I find it unbelievable! But there's the proof! Not only the amount of concentration this required - but consider the position - up on the scaffolding...with so many people watching him! That alone would break my concentration!

This was from an article on the requirements of the artist who wishes to copy in the Louvre.

Quote

"You are allowed to bring your own small sketchbook and draw to your hearts content. If you wish to paint one the masterpieces, you must apply for a copyist permit. The Louvre will supply the easel, and your seat. You supply the canvas, oil paint, determination, talent and concentration. Just think of the concentration required. If you've ever painted in front a small group of people, imagine painting in front of several thousand museum visitors.
There are a few stipulations about your painting, your canvas cannot be the same size as the original work of art and you are not allowed to copy the original artist's signature."

JoanP · « **Reply #111 on:** July 22, 2014, 11:41:08 AM »

McCullough tells us that the Americans were surprised by the number of female French artists who were copying at this time. This was something unheard of in the US in the 1830's at the time Morse was admitted as a copyist. I can't find anything that tells when American women began copying at the Louvre. Those of us who read of Mary Cassatt and Edgar Degas last month saw Mary learning to paint by copying at the Louvre between 1866 and 1870. Was she one of the first, do you suppose?

"Mary Cassatt visited the Louvre in Paris, the most famous art museum in the world, to study and copy the masters. Renoir, Henri Matisse, Degas and countless other artists were copyists at the Louvre. Examining the brushwork, composition, color and lost and found edges of paintings by master painters is part of the copyist tradition.

She studied art at the Pennsylvania Academy in Philadelphia in 1861 to 1865, which was among the few such schools open to female students. In 1866 Mary Cassatt began European travels, finally living in Paris, France. In France, she took art lessons and spent her time studying and copying the paintings at the Louvre.

A quick peek into the Index tells us that McCullough has researched Mary Cassatt in later pages. We might find out when women began coming to France to copy the masters.

Winslow Homer's The Copyists in the Louvre Gallery (1890)

pedln · « **Reply #112 on:** July 22, 2014, 11:56:39 AM »

Thank you, Barb. That one's a keeper. A few weeks ago I was "lunching" in the revolving Space Needle Restaurant, with a meal even the French might have approved. The ambience called for a glass of wine, but hey, it was lunchtime. Next time I'll think French.

Quote

Amazon sent me a recommendation for a new book, HOW PARIS BECAME PARIS; THE INVENTION OF THE MODERN CITY by Joan DeJean, which looks interesting.

That does sound interesting, Marj. My small town here is trying to develop "neighborhod groups," making me wonder how Paris developed its "arrondissements."

I've never read any by JF Cooper. Will consider opinions here and try one of his other novels than Last of the Mohicans.

PatH · « **Reply #113 on:** July 22, 2014, 02:31:08 PM »

Barb, it's a good thing I'd already eaten lunch when I looked at your link, or I would have had to rush off for food. It sure brings back a lot of good memories.

I went through a James Fenimore Cooper stage at one point, maybe at about 12, and read a number of his books, but I could never get through The Last of the Mohicans. The books have all vanished from memory without a trace now, so I can't answer the question of whether Paris changed his writing style.

JoanK · « **Reply #114 on:** July 22, 2014, 03:01:41 PM »

I'm trying to finish reading your posts when what I really want is to go get some of that yummy food to eat. Unfortunately, nothing in my fridge is that good!

When Pat and I were setting up housekeeping, French food was popular, and we cooked it and ate in French restaurants. Now there is one French restaurant in the town where I live, and it doesn't have handicap access. Boo hoo! And my caretaker who does the cooking never heard of French food.

But PatH is the French cook in the family! She learned on Julia Child's cookbook.

Jonathan · « **Reply #115 on:** July 22, 2014, 10:16:34 PM »

My, oh my, those wonderful croissants Monsieur, the propieter at Hotel Jean Bart used to get for us each morning from up the street. It got where we would be watching for him from our window with the hungriest feeling I have ever known. That's thirty years ago.

It's interesting to read of the many Americans who went to Paris to study medicine. But who needs a doctor if you can get yourself off to Paris to recover your health by just being there.

And then there were the painters. What a busy scene at the Louvre with all those copyists. What a magnificent work Morse did with his Gallery.
Marj, the Joan DeJean book looks very interesting, and it gets many raves at Amazon. Quoting just one, it says the book, 'illustrates how Pont Neuf changed the entire urban experience, commerce and society.'

There are several things about it in a Paris guide I still have in the house. Laurence Sterne, writing in A Sentimental Journey (1765): 'Of all the bridges which ever were built, the whole who have passed over the Pont Neuf must own, that it is the noblest - the finest - the grandest - the lightest - the longest - the broadest that ever conjoined land and land together upon the face of the terraqueous globe.'

It had a purpose, My guide also has a quote from John Russell's Paris, (1960)

'The Pont Neuf was not just a beautiful bridge; it was fairground, department store, employment exchange, picture gallery and poor man's Harley Street. You could have a tooth out, go through the 'Situations Vacant', watch the tight-rope dancers, buy a Lancret or a Fragonard, join the army, pick up the new Marivaux or a first edition of Manon Lescaut, and arrange to go up in a balloon, watch a bullfight, take fencing lessons and attend a surgical demonstration.'

How did Renoir get all that vile commercial activity off the bridge and people it with all that elegance for the cover of our book?

JoanK · « **Reply #116 on:** July 22, 2014, 10:47:30 PM »

A balloon took of from the bridge? Hope the bridge wasn't wood.

JoanP · « **Reply #117 on:** July 23, 2014, 10:00:26 AM »

The cheese! The sauces! The bread! The desserts! Don't you wonder how the French manage to remain so chic and slender with diets like this? How do they manage? Is there a secret?

I chose to visit one of the restaurants DMcCullough described here - Le Grand Vefour - with "a menu the size of a newspaper." I wonder if he ever splurged to eat here. Reading the reviews, I see a man commenting that dinner for two came to $750. - and that it would have been more if his wife drank wine!

Imagine being presented with a menu the size of a newspaper - in French! Overwhelming for these Americans who are just learning French! I think I'd make a copy of the menu and spend some time with my Larouse dictionary before venturing in - Here's a menu of specials for today...

Napoleon ate here - Victor Hugo - Jean Paul Sartre... I think I'm going to propose Victor Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame for next month. Unless everyone has read it. It's a classic, not to be missed - and reflects Paris in the early 19th century.

I wonder how many Americans ventured into Grand Vefour in the 19th century.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #118 on:** July 23, 2014, 11:29:33 AM »

Isn't it just wonderful - I have read how many a French single or couple will save all year to have one meal at a 4 star restaurant - for them it is like going to the theater is for us and seeing the photos of Le Grand Vefour it is easy to realize a diner is playing a part as well as, enjoying the performance and savoring the time that would be several hours plus, the prep before they left the house. Better than attending a concert where all you do is sit and listen where as, this experience involves all your senses; taste, touch, sound, sight, smell.

A couple of years ago I read one of these cute chic books and in it the author, a women, goes home to visit after a couple of years living a busy typical American style business life in Paris - her father is astounded, her mother almost outraged - she was chubby and not in a healthy way - she had been eating American - on the go, sandwiches, hamburgers, fries - dashing out, not savoring her food or in her mother's opinion, herself. She was promptly put back on a French diet of morning jam on croissants however, ruminating about the fruit that made the jam and detecting the flavors - no sandwiches on the run but a decent meal with time to de-stress - a light le quatre heures - and a dinner with several courses carefully and lovingly served, each course small as compared to our huge plates of food.

From this and several other books I read at the time it was apparent we eat more bread and starches later in the day - we eat at least two of our meals, if we even have breakfast, on the run, quick as if we were farm hands having to fill our body with calories. The other is in so many areas of the world they fix their own food, the food is less likely to be purchased prepared with all the additives in our store bought food, it is more likely to be daily purchased fresh, grown locally. Soon after, it is now a year and a half I decided no more prepared food, frozen dinners, nothing except what I prepare fresh. Grapes for snacks, all sorts of fruit deserts with sugar, but real sugar and even heavy cream and yes, cheese. I will purchase things like mayo and katsup. I only eat bread in the morning and within 4 months I lost 20 pounds not doing another thing.

It is difficult to make a ceremony during mealtime but that too I read how even street vendors in France, close down their cart and sit behind it eating a lovely meal spread out on a make shift table that for many of us we would consider as a dinner.

I think we still have a work ethic that drives us so that we do not smell the roses of living.

bellamarie · « **Reply #119 on:** July 23, 2014, 02:22:58 PM »

Wow! A bill for $750.00 and NO wine! Incredible is all I can say. Le Grand Vefour, looks like a wonderful place to dine, but a bit rich for my taste.

Can anyone tell me if the 'The Pont Neuf bridge is where all the couples go to place their locks with their names on it? I saw it on the Kardashians, and my good friend who just toured Paris and his wife showed me a picture where they placed their lock.

Ooops found the answer to my own question. No it is not the Pont Neuf it is indeed two different bridges for lovers to place their locks. http://www.bonjourparis.com/story/paris-love-locks-love-that-wont-die/

Paris Love Locks: A Love That Won't Die
By Erica Hewins
If you thought romance was passé in Paris, all you have to do is look at Paris bridges to see it is being displayed in full force.

The Paris “love locks” are back.

The love padlocks have been a phenomenon in cities as varied as Belgium to Japan.

For those of you who haven’t heard of them, here's the story. A couple writes their names on a padlock and locks it onto one of the bridges. They then throw the key into the Seine River as a symbol of their undying love.

As BonjourParis reported last year, the locks on the Pont des Arts near the Louvre were cut off, reportedly by the government. But romance beats politics in Paris and the locks can now be seen on two Paris bridges:

Ciao for now~

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Author Topic: Greater Journey, The by David McCullough ~July Book Club Online (Read 68157 times)