Boys in the Boat, The~ January Book Club Online

[PatH]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

January Book Club Online:

The  Boys in the Boat
by Daniel James Brown

The #1 New York Times–bestselling story about American Olympic triumph in Nazi Germany.  "Out of the depths of the Depression comes an irresistible story about beating the odds and finding hope in the most desperate of times—the improbable, intimate account of how nine working-class boys from the American West showed the world at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin what true grit really meant...  The emotional heart of the tale lies with Joe Rantz, a teenager without family or prospects, who rows not only to regain his shattered self-regard but also to find a real place for himself in the world. Drawing on the boys’ own journals and vivid memories of a once-in-a-lifetime shared dream, Brown has created an unforgettable portrait of an era, a celebration of a remarkable achievement, and a chronicle of one extraordinary young man’s personal quest." - Amazon.com

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:


PROLOGUE, PART ONE..............................JANUARY  l -  7          
PART TWO...............................................JANUARY  8 - 14
PART THREE............................................JANUARY 15 - 21
PART FOUR Ch. 13-15...............................JANUARY 22 - 28
PART FOUR Ch. 16-end.............................JANUARY  29 - FEBRUARY 4~



QUESTIONS PART III

1. Our author starts almost every chapter with Pocock’s words.  This chapter presents  some of the better ones I think.    “social implications”   “pulling your own weight”     How do these ideas resonate with you?

2. The young love birds, the kind that row a canoe out on the water, sleep a bit, play a guitar, sing a bit and……………how would old Joe describe this without crying?

3. If you had been mistreated by your father and saw him five years later, what would have been your feelings?   What would you have said?   (pg.160)

4. THE DUST BOWL - we’ve read about it, were any of your parents or family involved?  Do watch this short video by Ken Burns: 

http://www.thirteen.org/programs/ken-burns/the-dust-bowl-black-sunday/

5. What have you learned about one member of the shell who does not row - the coxswain?     (178)

6. The Grand Coulee Dam where Joe worked, brutal work, but the pay was good  and it was while he was on the job that Joe had thoughts about the life he was leading, always flat broke, the whole crew business - where was he going.  Young lives, young problems, decisions.  Was it hard for you to make these life-changing decisions?

7. What did Joe gain from his work at Grand Coulee?

https://www.nwcouncil.org/history/GrandCouleeHistory

8. Ulbrickson stated that he or the team “cannot be arrested for trying.”  For Olympic Gold.  What obstacles did the coach need to overcome? 

9. Pocock said for him the craft of building a boat was like religion.  What did he mean?

10. Should the USA have boycotted the 1936 Olympics in protest to Hitler’s new laws?  (225)

RELEVANT LINKS:

1936 Film of Olympic Rowing

Daniel James Brown Website and Information

Interview With the Author, Daniel James Brown  

Triumph of the Will  - Nazi propaganda film

Indoor Rowers Training Techniques  

Discussion Leaders: Ella & JoanK

[JoanK]

Well, it's after midnight on the East coast, so Part III has started. Questions later.

First impressions?

[JoanK]

PAT says of the rifle team:" We had considerable team spirit and feeling of solidarity, though it certainly didn't rise to mysticism.  And every time I have had a conversation with someone who has been on a rifle team, they have said the same thing that I felt, that it was an extraordinarily positive experience."

What about the rest of you former team members. JONATHAN: did your curling experiences lead to the same feelings of solidarity?

[Ella Gibbons]

AHA, new questions in the heading - PART THREE

We must take attendance here - WHERE DID ALL THE PEOPLE GO - NOT LONG AGO!!!

DO COME BACK, WE ARE BEGINNING A NEW - Okay, ANEW!  BEGINNING ANEW!

OLLIE IN FREE, no truant officers will be sent out today, but.........................

[Ella Gibbons]

What do you think of when you read these phrases?    social implications”   “pulling your own weight”

[pedln]

Behind in my reading, but that's what happens when you try to read more than one book at a time.

Ella, I was absolutely horrifed reading about the Goebbels children.  And especially appalling that just about everyone in that bunker knew what was going to happen and nobody could or would do anything about it. I know some refused to give the doses, but that doesn't mean much.

I don't think we should have boycotted the 1936 games.  Bravo to all who went, not knowing if they'd win or lose.  I haven't read that section yet, so hope I don't change my miind.

JoanK, that rowing video is fantastic.  The machine looks exactly like the one at the gym.  And the training lessons are so explicit and easy to follow.  Thank you, thank you.  Now I need to get it on my cell phone, if possible, to use at the gym.

PatH, if you have access, give the rowing machine a try.  The orthopedic doc tells me my knees are bone on bone, but I'm  not doing exercises to win contests, just to strengthen muscles and work the cardio-vascular system.  Just do it at a comfortable level.

[Ella Gibbons]

PEDLIN, I don't know if I agree with you about attending/not attending the 1936 Games.  Somewhere in the years since, I've read that FDR was slow to recognize the plight of the Jewish people in Hitler's evil  empire.  Something about a quota he put on immigration.  I'll have to find a reference to that again, it seems so cruel today to think about those people needing to get out of their country and there were Jews in America very willing to help.   

That rowing video is wonderful, did you notice you can get something in your email every day and, as Pocock says, once you get that rhythm going, that swing, you'll cry out with delight!  Sure!

I'm confused about "social implications."   What does that mean?  It would sound just so grand if I could throw the phrase out now and then among my Current Events group; we meet twice a month to discuss the sorry state of affairs of the world.  But I have to understand it first!

Give me an example, please.

[hysteria2]

PatH, I posted this before, but my post seems to have disappeared. Or maybe I forgot to hit "post" after I finished writing it. At any rate, I would go to a gym if you have access to one (Gyms participating in Silver Sneakers are free if you are in that program.) or you could go to a sports store to try a rowing machine. I would hate to see you invest money in a machine you can't use. I got mine on Amazon. It was a real cheapie, but I got the bare bones so I wouldn't be out much if I didn't like it. (At the time my local gym did not have one.) My machine is a basic push - pull operation. When you push the seat slides down, and when you pull the seat slides up. So yes the knees have to bend and straighten repetitively. It does not simulate rowing exactly; there are machines out there that do, but I did not want to spend that kind of money.

Now, back to the book. If I had been mistreated (or abandoned) by my father, I don't think I could forgive and forget. In that sense, Joe is a better person than I am. It seemed he looked at each day as a new start. I wish I could do that. It would have made things better in so many ways. Before I retired I never had time to dwell on past mistakes. Now I have all the time in the world, and my life review has not been pretty.

As far as boycotting the 1936 Olympics, yes, the USA probably should have boycotted it. At that point in time however I don't think our leaders could see far enough ahead and did not visualize the monster Hitler would become. The US, being so far away, was not directly affected then. Countries closer to Germany were much more aware of what Hitler was doing, but even they did not move fast enough. I don't remember the exact saying, but it went something like this: "They came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I didn't say anything. Then they came for the (insert group here), but I was not one of them, so I didn't say anything. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to protect me."

Just my thoughts so far. I love this book!

[Jonathan]

Good question, Ella, about 'social implications' and 'pulling your own weight.'

I remember seeing 'pulling your own weight' used in the analysis of successful crewing and intended as a motivational encouragement. Was the phrase 'social implication' also used in that context? Or, if we all took up rowing, would that have a social implication, or just a reading club feature. I'm definitely getting interested by what's being said about the sport.

And what's the implication of a 'swing'? Read this:

'the boat...is moving as if on its own. Only then does pain entirely give way to exultation. Rowing then becomes a kind of perfect language. Poetry, that's what a good swing feels like.' (p161)

Has any of you experienced this on your rowing machine? My brother could never stop talking about the glory of a good swing...on the fairway, of course. And here these fellows are finding it on the water!

It must be such a downer for athletes anticipating an Olympics with political implications. We've seen that in recent years at Beijing and Sochi, haven't we?

A lot of good sharpshooting, Pat, in your review of Triumph of the Will. Keep your posts long. They're such a treat.

And then there is that other Joe in our book. Dr Goebbels. What a contrast to our Joe. Both showed such character. In such different ways. Physically, it was no contest.

[JoanK]

"Somewhere in the years since, I've read that FDR was slow to recognize the plight of the Jewish people in Hitler's evil  empire.  Something about a quota he put on immigration."

Doris mills Goodwin talks about this in her book about Roosevelt during the war years. She claims that the person in charge in the State Department (who was anti-Semitic) persuaded Roosevelt that if he allowed Jews fleeing Hitler to enter the country, he risked letting in German spies. So you could only enter if you could find an American sponsor. of course most Germans had no idea how to do that.

That was the problem. There was a time when Hitler was letting Jews out of Germany, but no country was letting them in. So many who tried to flee couldn't. I'm proud that my parents did take in a young German girl, fleeing from the camps. I was a child, and wasn't told her story. By day, she was a friendly young woman. But at night, I could hear her screaming in her sleep from nightmares.

[bellamarie]

Ollie, ollie oxen free......not it!   Sorry, I read section three and did not want to comment too soon, and realized the days passed me by.

This section just reiterates the struggles Joe has had to overcome in his life.  I am just amazed at everything he goes through and still can feel okay with is father.  My heart just keeps breaking for him.  He has to sneak in visits to see his Dad, then his Dad tells him he can come see his siblings at times Thula and he are away.  While spending his short visits with his Dad, it appears all his Dad can do is talk about himself, and never seems to ask Joe how he is doing, or anything about his rowing.  Does he even know how good Joe is at the sport?  I have seen no indication in all these pages where Joe shares with his father, he is on a rowing team, and they won a very prestigious rowing match. 

So now Thula has died.  Joe feels the the ground shifting from under him. 

pg. 250  "Over the years he had pondered what he might have done to make things better between them later, when the trouble had started.  How he might have tried harder to get along with her, to sympathize with her own cramped circumstances, maybe even to see at least some of what his father had seen in her.

Now he would never have a chance to show her what he could become.  But he also found that there were limits to his regret, and beyond a certain point he simply couldn't feel much of  anything for her.  Mostly, he worried about his father, and even more about his half siblings.

It astounds me how Joe even gives a thought to him being able to show Thula what he could become.  This woman could have cared less about him.  She was more interested in cramped living quarters and achieving her goals as a violinist.

Joe goes to see his father and what does he hear?

"Finally, he turned to Joe and said, "Son, I've got a plan.  I'm going to build a house where we can all live together.  As soon as it's done, I want you to come home."

Joe finally allows himself to feel anger, an emotion Joyce had asked him about earlier:

But he drove back to the YMCA that night not sure what to do, confusion morphing into resentment, resentment merging into silent anger, and anger giving way again to confusion, all of it washing over him in waves.

Joe is not only struggling with the fact he is not able to stay focused with his rowing, that the coach is losing confidence in him, but he is also having to struggle now with the emotions of losing the camaraderie of his two rowing mate, Thula's death, and his father's expectations of coming to live with them.  Not to mention, he has to come up with the money for this next year of college.  All I can say is the lyrics in from a Kelly Clarkson comes to my mind...."What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger." Well, Joe should be a man of steel.

The one bright spot in these pages of this section is that Pocock has taken Joe under his wing.   

[JoanK]

BELLAMARIE:"It astounds me how Joe even gives a thought to him being able to show Thula what he could become."

Yes, as flawed as she is, she's still a mother figure, and we all want to make our parents proud of us, however bad parents they are. At some level, I'll bet he blames himself.

HYSTERIA: thanks for the good rowing advice. I love this book, too.

[JoanK]

I should have said: the new questions are in the heading. I'm interested in Q 5:

5. What have you learned about one member of the shell who does not row - the coxswain?

How do you become a coxswain, I wonder? Are these rowers who are promoted, or is it a different path? It seems to me an almost impossible job, calling out the strokes so regularly. You feel the difference between 32 and 34 strokes a minute. And while you're doing it, thinking of strategy!

[PatH]

Thanks, pedln and Hysteria, for the rowing comments.  The YMCA where I swim used to have rowing machines, probable still does, but I never go in that room so don't know for sure.  So if I want to try it, it would be easy enough.

Jonathan:

And then there is that other Joe in our book. Dr Goebbels. What a contrast to our Joe. Both showed such character. In such different ways. Physically, it was no contest.

That made me chuckle.  I could just see Joe squashing Goebbels like a bug and hardly noticing.

JoanK, I'm betting there has to be a different path for coxswain, since they are smaller than the rowers.  Brown says that now, coxswains of men's teams are often women.  You don't have to be as fit, but you do have to be very clever at it, getting the psychology of the team, and its physical limits, so you know just what you can ask for and when to do so.  It seems an odd thing to choose deliberately.  Maybe you do it if you love rowing but don't have the physique for competition.

[pedln]

JOanK, the coxswain has a lot of responsibility just guiding the boat.  He's the only one who sees where the boat is going.  The rowers are all seeing where they've been.  He (or now maybe a she) determines the SPMs (strokes per minute), when they speed up, when they slow down.  It seems to me that next to the coach, the coxswain is boss.

Well, Joe should be a man of steel.

   Good point and well-said, Bellamarie.

[Ella Gibbons]

"A good swing feels llike poetry" - JONATHAN quoted.  I think out author does a great job in writing this book, making of Joe's story more romantic, you might say, than it truly was.  He makes the "ups and downs" of Joe's life  so dramatic,  so fascinataing, I must read his other two books. when I get to a library.  In my present state it will be awhile.

JOANK, I would like to hear more about the German girl who lived with you during those turbulent years; "screaming at night."  How long did she stay?  Was she able to go back to Germany and reunite with relatives?  What good parents you had.  After the war, our church sponsored a young family, two children with their parents, to come to America from Germany.   We found the father a job and housing, you had to do that before they could immigrate.  

BELLE, thanks for your comments about Joe, our author does a wonderful job of portraying Joe doesn's he?  I'm astounded, too.  DB must have been very impressed with Joe to write so beautifully of Joe's feelings.

I agree PEDLIN, the coxswain is the boss - the leader in the boat.  He must have leadership abilities to command, control and direct the crew who are larger and physically stronger men.  Nowadays, our author says, females are often the coxswain in an all-male crew.  Imagine, a small female bossing around those large, physically fit young males; I bet she is the envy of the whole university. 

Somewhere in the book is a picture of Bobby Moch, our boys in the boat coxswain.  A cute kid, small, but popular with the crew; a picture also of Bobby with the other team members.   I must go look for it.  

[JoanK]

ELLA: the girl moved on, and I lost track of her (I was a small child at the time). Pat may know more than I do.

There will be many competitions on the way to the Olympics, but it seems as if the most bitter is within the team to determine who will be in the top shell. Joe's shellmates are his family, and he doesn't speak to those in other shells. When he's moved to a different boat, it's devastating.

What does this tell us about the bonds that form between teammates -- strong, but temporary, and determined by someone else?

[Halcyon]

Sorry I've been MIA.  Spending lots of time on Latin.  I've decided to take the National Latin Exam.  Anyway I've finished the book and want to comment on question #2.  Joyce is very devoted to Joe, has been since riding to school on the bus and listening to him play his guitar.  It seems that kind of devotion is a thing of the past.  I watched my father show that kind of devotion to my mother and marvelled.  Maybe it just seems like a more romantic time.

As far as going to the 1936 Olympics, I wonder if we had boycotted and not been taken in by Hitler's showcasing of Germany if would we have entered the war earlier.

[PatH]

Halcyon, hooray for you, going for the National Latin Exam.  As you know better than I, Ginny's classes are a great foundation for this test.

Devotion--I don't think it's totally dead, I've seen some examples, but maybe it's rare now.  Joyce and Joe were lucky to find each other.  Each had been hurt by life in a way that the other was able to heal.

[PatH]

Ella, I'm not sure how long the refugee stayed with us--a year or two--but other family members got here too, and eventually they all ended up on the west coast, and settled down to live normal lives.  There wouldn't have been family in Europe to go back to; everyone would either have gotten out or been killed.

[Ella Gibbons]

PATH, just have a few minutes.  I did want to thank you for  your summary of the film - TRIUMPH OF THE WILL.   I was surprised to read this:

"In India the swastika continues to be the most widely used auspicious symbol of Hindus, Jainas, and Buddhists

One would think such a despicable symbol of Nazi Germany would be hidden forever.  I think we learn more about Leni, Htler's photographer, later in the book.

I know there is a White House photographer.  Are there three shifts of photographers so one would be on hand at all times to capture those historical moments?   Does each president appoint his own or how are they appointed?

HALCYON, you ask an interestng question about entering the war earlier.   As I recall my history of this period, FDR saw the danger of Hitler's Germany,  but the public were very much against any intervention, having inter-vened in Europe in 1914.  My FIL was in WWI; his son, my husband, was in WWII.

As I think about that, I wonder if father and son have been in our Middle East wars.  

[Ella Gibbons]

Questions 6 and 7.  I've always been interested in how, when, why young people decide about their future.  It is so difficult.  Mentors help, sometimes they get it wrong, you get it wrong, start over.  When are you certain you made the right decisions for you, the life you hold in your hands and head.

Joe and Joyce shared their troubles, their good times, and encouraged each other through the tough tims.

Who do you marry, if you do?  Can you envision the life you will have in the future, did you and your spouse talk about your goals.?

[PatH]

One thing that frustrated and puzzled me in the first sections: why was Joe's rowing performance so variable?  His team, too, seemed to have a wide variation of good days and bad days.  Ulbrickson is frustrated by it too, and after studying Joe for a while he enlists Pocock's help to try to figure Joe out.  They seem to like each other's company, and Joe starts to open out to Pocock.  We still don't have the whole story, though we're getting a lot of clues.

[JoanK]

HYSTERIA: you finished the book! Don't tell us how it ends. ; I hope you still enjoy the discussion.

[hysteria2]

Actually, no I haven't finished the book. I stopped reading at the end of Part III. But I was tempted!

Rowing is the ultimate team sport. The coordination of 8 rowers must be precise. Individual and team discipline can result in triumph or defeat, depending on the communication between the rowers and the coxswain. As the author pointed out, there are no stars. There is no MVP award. The whole is indeed greater than the sum of its parts. You don't see this in baseball or football. Star status is encouraged, even demanded by coaches and the players themselves. Think Heisman Trophy. From what I have learned about rowing, there can be no star. A missed catch, an interception, an error can all cost the team the game. However, the team can recover and go on to win. But if one rower's timing is off, the team becomes dysfunctional and has no chance. The rowing team may be made up of differing personalities and physical capabilities, but these differences do not take center stage and dictate the performance of the team. How very different this is for those of us used to watching the traditional team sports! And how refreshing!

[bellamarie]

PatH., I am with you.  It seems every time Ulbrickson would place Joe's boat in first position, after they would win a meet, the guys would row horribly and be demoted back to third boat.  Why did it seem to be so difficult for the 8 boys to accept they earned the 1st  boat position?  I was getting frustrated reading how they continued to go back and forth, do so good, and then so badly.

Ella, 

Who do you marry, if you do?  Can you envision the life you will have in the future, did you and your spouse talk about your goals.?

My hubby and I have been married almost forty-four years.  We fell in love and jumped in with no plans, visions or college degrees.  His mother suggested we wait and plan out our paths, he had just come home from the Air Force, and went to work in a local paint store.  I had just graduated high school, and was an assistant manager at a local Jack in the Box.  I gave up my job to move to his hometown. 

Joe and Joyce seem to be making good choices where their relationship is concerned.   I see them to be very responsible for their ages. 

[Ella Gibbons]

" As the author pointed out, there are no stars. There is no MVP award. The whole is indeed greater than the sum of its parts. " - HYSTERIA

I wonder if this is the reason that rowing today is not a popular, crowd-pleasing sport.  We need heros, we need the individual hero don't you think?  The quarterback, the pitcher, the Magic Johnson heros.  We can tell little boys, who idolize them, they, too, can grow up to be one.   Practice!

Just for fun here is the Heisman Trophy winners (I live in Ohio, so please note the multiple winners from my state, GO BUCKEYES)

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heisman_Trophy_winners

[bellamarie]

Ella, I think rowing isn't as popular today because it's for the elite, the income brackets of six figures.  The high schools in my town that offer rowing are the private Catholic ones, with a tuition of at least ten thousand dollars a year. Football and basketball seem to be the two most popular sports, next is baseball, and soccer is gaining.

You won't find too many like Joe Rantz today.  If a boy/girl shows a strong skill in a sport, they receive scholarships or grants.  I know of some high schools and colleges willing to pay the full ride, to get certain athletes to their school for a sport.   

 

[Ella Gibbons]

WHY?

Can't be an expensive sport, all you need are the shells - AND WATER!!!  No stadium, no court.  And it would offer some boys/girls a chance to be in a sport who normally wouldn't make it.

[Halcyon]

JOANK  I am the one who finished reading the book and, yes, I am still enjoying the discussion. 

There are only two private high schools remotely near where I live and as far as I know neither one offers crew but here are lots of colleges that still do and not all of them are Ivy League.  Perhaps being raised in a time when there are so many choices crew has taken a back seat.  Probably doesn't seem quite as exciting as some of the extreme sports. 

[bellamarie]

I meant expensive, because the schools/colleges that offer it, generally are expensive to attend, not referring to equipment, gear, etc. 

This link is interesting.....   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_rowing_%28United_States%29

[Ella Gibbons]

worst manmade environmental catastrophe in our history - Ken Burns

Watch this short video of the Dust Bowl.  Have you read a book about it?   Would you like to discuss one?  Our author states the  "cold, dry winds scoured from dry fields more than two times  the amount of soil that had been excavated from the Panama Canal and lifted it eight thousand feet into the sky."

Frightening!

http://about.bankofamerica.com/en-us/global-impact/ken-burns-dust-bowl.html#fbid=FK1cF9-t0K2

[JoanK]

BELLAMARIE.: interesting article. Some points: the first intercollegiate competition in the US was the Harvard-Yale race of 1852. Washington didn't establish rowing until1903.

"In the 2002-03 school year there were 1,712 male and 6,690 female collegiate rowers." So it's becoming more popular with women than men in colleges?

[JoanK]

HALCYON: SORRY. I would forget my own name, if I didn't tattoo it on my hand.

[PatH]

A sport doesn't need to call for expensive equipment to get a reputation as elitist.  Look at cricket.

[Ella Gibbons]

Thanks for the comments, all of you! Joan and I  truly appreciate your interest in the book.

What an interesting discussion we are having and now two entirely different subjects show up in the book; as we have said before, this author knows how to write,  how to keep our interest.  The era that the boys are liviing in - the Dust Bowl, Germany; just when things were looking up for the average person trying to make a living, an average person that had survived the crash of '29.

We found this picture of the dust bowl on the Internet.  What would you do?   Try to run faster than the wind?

       
 

[bellamarie]

I can't imagine living through these dust storms.  They remind me of the Santa Ana winds.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/santa-ana-winds-ravaging-western-united-states-insane-15071562

[PatH]

And after you've survived the storm, your cows are all dead, and the good topsoil is all gone, leaving you no way to make a living.

[PatH]

Joe and Joyce seem to be making good choices where their relationship is concerned.   I see them to be very responsible for their ages. 

They are responsible and very focussed.  They know exactly what they want, and have a game plan to get it.

Joe is having to figure out his plan on a much more brutal level than I ever did.  He's fighting for survival.  If he wants to be able to earn a decent living, he needs an education, and to get it he has to earn the money to pay for it, by whatever means he can.  We don't know how he picked his field--chemical engineering.  There were probably plenty of jobs in it, but it's not the sort of thing you pick without some aptitude or liking.

I had it easy.  I knew from an early age that I wanted to be a scientist, and I knew that there would be money to pay for my education.  The rest was just detail, and fell into place fairly readily.

[bellamarie]

PatH., How exciting for you to have known your path, and to have the money to achieve it.

College was not even on my radar.  My guidance counselor did not do a very good job in helping me see my opportunities, my mother and stepfather were both from the south with little education, and no guidance from them.  I had no idea what type of career I could even consider, but I did know there was NO money to help me in any way.  I took a job at the local Jack in the Box at the age of seventeen, and when I graduated and turned eighteen, I was told I had to pay rent to continue living at home.  So, I moved out into an apartment with two girlfriends, and met my hubby.  I so often wonder how different things would have been, had I had better guidance.  Although, I am happily married and would not ever change that.  

I went to read my book today, only to find it has expired, and I can not get another copy until it is available in my library.  I can purchase it from ibook for $2.99 which is not bad, but then I really did not want to own it.  I will wait a couple days to see if it comes available.  There are 20 ebooks, and six people ahead of me.  All hard copies are out, and not due back til the end of the month.  Boooo....