Boys in the Boat, The~ January Book Club Online

[hysteria2]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

January Book Club Online:

The  Boys in the Boat
by Daniel James Brown

The #1 New York Times–bestselling story about American Olympic triumph in Nazi Germany.  "Out of the depths of the Depression comes an irresistible story about beating the odds and finding hope in the most desperate of times—the improbable, intimate account of how nine working-class boys from the American West showed the world at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin what true grit really meant...  The emotional heart of the tale lies with Joe Rantz, a teenager without family or prospects, who rows not only to regain his shattered self-regard but also to find a real place for himself in the world. Drawing on the boys’ own journals and vivid memories of a once-in-a-lifetime shared dream, Brown has created an unforgettable portrait of an era, a celebration of a remarkable achievement, and a chronicle of one extraordinary young man’s personal quest." - Amazon.com

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:


PROLOGUE, PART ONE..............................JANUARY  l -  7          
PART TWO...............................................JANUARY  8 - 14
PART THREE............................................JANUARY 15 - 24
PART FOUR .............................................JANUARY 25 - end

RELEVANT LINKS:

1936 Film of Olympic Rowing

Daniel James Brown Website and Information

Interview With the Author, Daniel James Brown  

Triumph of the Will  - Nazi propaganda film

Indoor Rowers Training Techniques  

Discussion Leaders: Ella & JoanK

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I also have difficulty imagining that a female coxswain would be accepted by an all male rowing team. It is difficult for a female to break into the "club" of male athletes. While they accept females as "eye candy" (think the sideline reporters during NFL games), when do you see female football announcers? I remember a while back at the University of New Mexico a female placekicker tried to make the UNM football team. She was not accepted at all by the rest of the team. In fact there were rumors that she was raped. So I have a hard time visualizing a female not only as a member of the rowing team but the coordinator of the team effort.

I too had to smile when I read about the boys' visit to FDR's home. With the way things are today, they would have immediately been pounced upon by the Secret Service. They never would have gotten as far as the house. I found it refreshing that they were not only able to visit the house, but they also were able to meet FDR's son. The closest I ever came to meeting a president was in 1963 when JFK visited Los Alamos. He toured the Lab and then spoke to the crowd at the high school football field. I didn't actually talk to him personally of course, but it certainly was a memorable event.  

[Jonathan]

Other things being equal, I can see the boys working even a little harder for a female coxswain. As Pat has pointed out, the coxswain 'is the brain and some of the spirit of the boat', and a girl can supply both easily enough. But I wonder would they throw her into the water after a win? Surely not into that foul and filthy Hudson. We've had several references to that. After the clear, sparkling waters back home in Washington, the Hudson must have seemed very polluted.

It had us all smiling, Ella. After rowing up the Hudson for a few miles, they parked their shell at the dock, wandered all over the grounds, and finally knocked at the door at Hyde Park. One lucky guy even made himself comfortable in FDR's favorite chair before being told of the honor.

How does one go about weighing the human brain? Bobby Moch's came in at three pounds, which is made to seem exceptional. I wonder if girls would be at a  disadvantage in that department?

Sheila, you're right. There is a lot of information about rowing. There's far more to it than I ever imagined. Catching a crab sounds to me like losing control of the oar. What a disaster. There certainly are many skills to master, to row as a winning team. But I can't help feeling that it was their superb condition that won it for them in the end. And that they acquired in that brutal northwest environment. They rowed and they rowed:

'The weather continued to be atrocious....Cold, rain, sleet, hail, and snow they simply ignored. There were days when the wind ripped up the surface of Lake Washington so badly that nobody could row on it without being swamped.' (p234)

It was no contest when that nicely tanned California crew came up for the Pacific Regatta.

[PatH]

Jonathan, I remember from Biology that there is a wide variation in human brain size, and within normal limits not much correlation between size and intelligence.  It seems unlikely that Brown actually knows Moch's brain size.  Either that's metaphorical, or maybe it was a team joke.

I wondered about throwing a female coxswain in the water too, and even more about the losers having to give their t-shirts to the winners.

[JoanK]

Well, it must work, as a lot of rowing teams are doing it. I knew coxswains were small but I didn't think as small as 120 pounds. That probably explains the use of women. There must be few men that small. It would have to be a pretty self-confident woman.

On the other hand, there are few sports where a small man is not at a disadvantage and can excel athletically. Jockey is the only other one that comes to mind. I've been noticing that sports stars are getting bigger and bigger. In tennis, there used to be very few top players over 6 feet: now most of them are. The same in baseball.

[JoanK]

PEDLIN: that's an interesting quote you found: rowing as a form of meditation because it allows you to forget yourself, and merge with something bigger. He says that "service" can do the same thing! Does that ring a bell with anyone?

SHEILA: I want to know all the boys too. We've been "introduced" to only three or four, but haven't really "got into the head" of any but Joe. Presumably, the author wasn't able to either.

I'm intrigued by the boy who, after several days in New York, had most of the $14 he started with left. That tells us a lot about these boys: their whole attitude toward money was different because to them, money represented the rare and precious chance to work, and the sweat and toil that went into it. To Joe it meant the chance to marry the girl he loved and have a family and a future.

What does money mean to boys today?

[PatH]

Moch is described as being 5 feet 7 and 119 pounds.  That's about the same weight a jockey tries for.  And there are an increasing number of good female jockeys.  I noticed other similarities to horse racing too.  In a race, the horses who get the lead at the start often use up too much of their reserve, and start to fade as some other horse who has been waiting his chance and conserving his strength pulls ahead and wins, and that happens in the races described here.  Moch knows just how close he has to keep to be within range to pull ahead and win at the end.

[Ella Gibbons]

JOANK, I would like to know what money means to boys today, too?  I would suppose it would matter how it was obtained - through their own hard work or given by their parents. 

To many young men when I was young, a job, their first pay went as a down payment on a new car.  A new car meant so much; independence from parents, the envy of friends (yes, it did), and self-esteem, a man doing a man's work.

BREAKING NEWS!   Tomorrow we are starting for Berlin.  See the heading - Chapter Sixteen to the end and JOANK and I want to thank you all again for your participation.   It is heartwarming to us that you liked the book we chose to discuss, we have so enjoyed all your comments.

And the coming week with the boys will be icing on a perfect cake.  Poor metaphor, but can't think of a better one at the momenet.

[PatH]

Speaking of money, it was almost a deal-breaker when Ulbrickson was suddenly faced with having to come up with the money to go to Berlin, with a very short deadline.  He got the money, by a miracle of public relations and home-state spirit.

Does anyone know how Olympic teams are financed now?  For sure, the problem isn't a surprise to them.

[JoanK]

I'm not sure. I think the sports associations for the sport involved fund them.

[JoanK]

This article explains it.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101374365#.

In most countries, the government funds the athletes. But not in the US, at least not directly. the sports associations do, and the government gives money to the sports associations. But there are too many: the government doesn't fund them all, or fund them all the way. The rest is from fundraising.

I don't think the individual athlete or team is ever threatened with being replaced by a wealthier one though. At least I hope so. How infuriating! 

[Ella Gibbons]

"Crowdfunding" an interesting article, JOANK, thanks for that.  It would never have been possible before the Internet.  A little bit from here and there adds up.

[Ella Gibbons]

http://www.olympic.org/ioc-financing-revenue-sources-distribution?tab=sources

How the organization helps.

[Ella Gibbons]

CHAPTER SIXTEEN

“We must be more charming than the Parisians, more easy- going than the Viennese, more vivacious that the Romans, more cosmopolitan than London, more practical than New York.” -- Joseph Goebbels

And we must hide away all signs of anti-Semitism from the foreigners who come to the Olympics.  

Certainly, the world knew something of what Hitler and his SS troops were doing.   No one in the world talked about it  at all?   Objected?

Did any of the Nazis have a conscience?  Were they too afraid to question the laws?

[bellamarie]

Well, bought the book and then two days later the library informed me my ebook was available.  Ughh...  I'm not as far as the rest of you in my reading, so I see from your posts things happening in the book I haven't gotten to.

hysteria, I came close to a few presidents, but never actually shook their hands.  Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were in my town, and I have some pretty good pics of Bill Clinton at a speech when Hillary was still running for the Democratic ticket.  He sure can wow a crowd.  I actually toured the White House a year or so before 911.  As you know, no more tours are allowed.  It was quite amazing to sit on a window bench, look out at the historical fountain and just realize I was actually in the White House.  We were in the blue room, and was told how Jackie Kennedy would decorate the room so grand and beautiful for Christmas.  When I walked out the front doors, and stood at the enormous white pillars, while my hubby took my pic, it was a bit surreal for me.

Ella, 

Certainly, the world knew something of what Hitler and his SS troops were doing.   No one in the world talked about it  at all?   Objected?

That seems to be the way things go, and get out of control.  Sometimes I feel there is too much apathy in the world.

Okay, I am off to try to catch up with the rest of you.  Has everyone finished the entire book at this point?

[Ella Gibbons]

No, I didn't know, BELLE. that no more tours are allowed at the White House.   Why?  And what a shame.

I went years and years ago, it didn't seem to me to be a mansion, I don't know why.  To me America deserved a castle and the White House was a home, lovely home, but some of the southern plantations seem equally grand.

Some of our SeniorLearn folks met several times in years past, and the last time we met was in Washington, D.C.   At the time, there was a tour office where you  bought tickets and souvenirs, as I remember.    I must look it up.

[Ella Gibbons]

This seems to be the latest.  I'll ask JOANP to come in and tell us; she lives in the city and, probably, keeps abreast of such things.

http://www.nps.gov/whho/planyourvisit/white-house-tours.htm

[PatH]

Has everyone finished the entire book at this point?

Not me--I'm reading the last section now, and still have comments about the next to last.

[JoanK]

I lived in or near DC most of my life, and only toured the white House once, with relatives from out of town.

"Certainly, the world knew something of what Hitler and his SS troops were doing."

who knew what when has been debated a lot. Many Germans said that they didn't know, but how could they not? I guess they didn't dare know.

[hysteria2]

I did finish the book. I must say I learned so much about a sport I never had given a second thought to. It even inspired me to buy (and use) a rowing machine, though my machine would be considered a "starter" machine at best. But I am actually using it! I hope I'm not giving too much away here, but I appreciated the wrap up of what became of everyone. I have a new appreciation for financially disadvantaged students like Joe who managed to get through school without financial aid. The 1936 US rowing team won the Olympics, and the team also won many rowing events for the university. Yet Joe and his teammates still had to find a way to come up with tuition and expenses.  In today's world of athletic scholarships and other "perks" it seems incongruous to me that athletically gifted students would have to struggle so hard to pay tuition. They all were fine men, and the hard work and sacrifices they made certainly contributed to their successes as athletes and men. Today's student athletes don't know how well off they really are. 

I learned so much from these discussions. Thanks to all who provided the videos which enriched the storyline. My thanks to the moderators and to all who participated. I am looking forward to more discussion groups such as this. Reading a book is of course rewarding. But being able to discuss it with others adds so much more. 

[Jonathan]

That's been my experience as well. What a great sport. And then the strange quote:

“We must be more charming than the Parisians, more easy- going than the Viennese, more vivacious that the Romans, more cosmopolitan than London, more practical than New York.” -- Joseph Goebbels

Doesn't this sound like someone playing coxswain to his nation? Trying so hard to get his countrymen into the race. And he never weighed more than a hundred pounds. Terrible things were happening in Germany and much of the world was turning a blind eye in that direction. Foreign guests coming for the games were wined and dined by top Nazi officials. Do you remember from Those Angry Days, this was the time when Goering pinned that medal on Charles Lindbergh's chest, which embarrassed him forever after. And discredited him back home.

Yes, I've finished the book, and let me tell you that winning race was touch and go.

[Ella Gibbons]

PATH; we don't mean to be in a hurry.  We have from now until we quit posting.  We don 't have to actually quit on a certain day.  There was a day some years ago before the Web was so full when we had 2 and 3 discussions going on at once.  

So, let us hear from you

HYSTERIA, I really don't know, but I would imagine there are still some girls and boys at a university who are in athletics and must pay their own way.  Rowing was, and  probably still is, not one of the bigger sports on campus and, therefore, doesn't bring in money from observers such as football.  I'm sure I need to be corrected on that statement, anyone?


JONATHAN, until you see a picture of Goebbels you think this man is a big gun on Hitler's team, with emphasis on the word "big."  But he wasn't at all physically, what an evil man he was.[/b]

[JoanK]

JONATHAN: that race certainly was touch and go. There's a picture  in my book that shows how much they won by, and it's inches.

I wonder how the boys felt later, when they learned what was really going on in the Berlin they saw?

They might have had a clue at how much things were being manipulated when they saw their lane assignment. I've never seen anything like that! In every sport, there arise natural situations that give an advantage or disadvantage to one participant. If they can't somehow be made even, it is always handled in the same way: the participants are ranked, or "seeded" according to their past performances, and those with the best record given the advantage. Thus participants must "earn" their advantage.

For example, in swimming, those in the center lanes have an advantage. So the fastest qualifiers get those lanes, the slowest the outside lanes. Of course, swimmers know this and work hard for fast qualifying times.

I've never seen this kind of rule violated in any sport. And yet here are the Americans, with the fastest qualifying time, given the worst lane!!!! Of course, everyone was furious. I'm furious!

[bellamarie]

Oh my heavens, I was so upset with so many parts of this section.  It was clear things were happening, not only to keep the Washington team from actually going to Berlin, but once they got there, they did everything possible, to give them the disadvantage of winning the Gold medal.  

Once the boys qualified in Princeton, I was furious to read: pg. 571

By eight o'clock the rumors were confirmed.  After his windy speech on the float in front of the Princeton shell house, Henry Penn Burke had taken Al Ulbrickson, George Pocock, and Ray Eckman, the athletic director at Washington, into a room and given them, in effect, an ultimatum.  If Washington want to go to Berlin, the boys were to have to pay their own way.  "You'll have to pay your own freight, or else," Burke said.  "We just haven't the dough."  Burke, who was also, coincidentally, the chairman of and a major fundraiser for the Pennsylvania Athletic Club in Philadelphia, went on to say that he understood that Penn had plenty of money and as the second-place finisher they would naturally be glad to take Washington's place to Berlin

Thank goodness, T.F. Davies, chairman of the Seattle Chamber of Commerce, came through for them, sending them a certified check for $5,000.

JoanK.,  I am with you.  When I read that lane rule change, I was so upset.  How dare them try to give the hosting team the advantage, when always the fastest qualifiers earned the favored lanes and the slower finishers had to make do with the least favored lanes. This was so upsetting: pg. 667

The German Olympic Committee and Federation Internationale des Societes d'Aviron--headed, respectively, by Heinrich pauli, chairman of the rowing committee for the Reich Association for Physical Training, and Rico Fioroni, an Italian Swiss_had implemented new rules for lane selection, rules never used before in Olympic competition.

Changing the lane rules was not enough to give the U.S.A. a disadvantage, then they try this tactic:  pg. 681

"Behind them, and out of sight, the official starter suddenly emerged from his shelter, holding a flag aloft.  The flag snapped widely over his head for a moment.  Almost immediately, he turned slightly in the direction of landes one and two, shouted into the wind in one continuous, unbroken utterance, "Etes-vous prets?  Partez!"  and dropped the flag.  Bobby Moch never heard him.  Never saw the flag.  Neither, apparently, did Noel Duckworth.  Four boats surged, forward.  The British boat and the Husky Clipper, for a horrific moment, sat motionless at the line, dead in the water.

As if Ulbrickson did not have enough on his plate, he has to deal with Don Hume being horribly ill, and having to make the decision as to whether to replace him.  They sure had enough obstacles to overcome to win this medal.  But it was such a wonderful triumph in the end!

[bellamarie]

This last section had so much in it, and it was quite lengthy to say the least.  I would like to have sectioned it off into two parts for our discussion.

The politics in this story were of course necessary to touch on, but I felt it did distract me at times.  I felt the author was meshing two stories into one, and I got the feeling Joe Rantz was not the one telling, or even mentioning the political side, more so it was the author adding it in.  The Louis Zamperini story, Unbroken, was more directly affected with the war itself, and how badly Zamperini was treated.  Joe Rantz, nor the other Olympic members/teams, weren't actually affected to what was happening at this time. 

In my own personal opinion, I felt the author could have mentioned less about what was happening politically, behind the scenes, of the the Olympics. 

Not to rush the ending of the discussion, I want to say, I did like the follow up of each of the guys in the end.  More on that later.....

[JoanP]

Ella, you asked about the suspension of the White House tours.  Awful memory - we did so much in Washington on two separate SeniorNet visits to the National Book Festival, but the White House was not on the list of places visited.  So sad we lost all that information when SeniorNet went down.

So yes, the suspended tours have been reinstated - and Pennsylvania Ave. is now open in front of the White House.  Did you hear about yesterday's drone, (or whatever it was) that was landed over the fence around the WH yesterday?   The first family is in India...but the implications of the ability to launch ANYTHING so close to the WH is frightening.

Here's some information from the web site: - The White House Visitor Center will reopen on Saturday, Sept. 13, 2014 at 7:30 a.m. The visitor center underwent a $12.6 million transormation and now provides a modern and engaging experience for visitors, including interactive touchscreen tours as well as more than 90 White House artifacts--many of which have never been on display before.
- See more at: http://washington.org/DC-faqs-for-visitors/how-can-i-tour-white-house#sthash.hql5UV0Y.dpuf

Tours of the White House are available by advance arrangement through your member of Congress. Tours are arranged for groups of 10 or more; smaller groups and families should request to join a tour. You should submit a request through your congressional office up to six months in advance and no fewer than 21 days in advance. Visitors who are not U.S. citizens should contact their embassy in DC.

The tours are self-guided and run from 7:30 a.m. until 11 a.m. Tuesdays through Thursdays, 7:30 a.m. unitl noon on Fridays, and 7:30 a.m. until 1 p.m. on Saturdays (excluding federal holidays unless otherwise noted). You will need a government-issued ID to enter the White House on the day of your tour. International visitors must present their passports.

For more information, call the White House Visitors Center at (202) 456-7041 or visit whitehouse.gov. You can locate your representative's office by visiting house.gov."

[JoanP]

ps  Just picked up my Library copy of The Boys.  I look forward to reading along with your comments from the Archived discussion.  So many questions, but afraid to find out before reading.  Already my first question has been answered - why now?  Why did Daniel Brown choose to write about this topic now?  But the opening chapters have cleared that up...his contact with the dying Joe Rantz who was visiting his sister near the author's property.  Wasn't that fortuitous?

Enjoy the rest of the story- I'll meet you in the Archives...

[bellamarie]

Ella,  Thank you for the link.
JoanP., We were posting at the same time.  Thank you for your info, on the White House tours.

After the 911 attacks, I know they stopped all tours for security purposes, but not sure for how long. Then in 2011 due to the sequester, stating lack of funds for security service, they again suspended tours.  I did see in your link, they resumed limited tours, and also there are new regulations and restrictions, such as: Public tours must be submitted through your Member of Congress, up to six months in advance, or at least 21 days before, must have I.D.s, and can not bring in any items.  When we went before 911, we could bring our purses, cameras, and were not checked for any I.D, and no advance notice or going through any Member of Congress.

The concierge of our hotel gave us a name and phone number of a person, who picked us up at our hotel, guaranteed we would get inside the White House, and chauffeured us to all the major sightseeing spots, with special ways to enter to avoid crowds.  I guess we were pretty lucky back then, and not to play on words, but the name of our guide was Lucky!  His father had been the chauffeur, to senators and congressmen for years, he retired and began the tour guide service.  He must have made a ton of money, because once his group assembled to begin the tour of the White House, there must have been over 50 of us, who paid him $30.00 each.  Not bad for a day's work, of driving people around Washington D.C., in a Town car.  It was worth every penny of it for me and my husband, who had never visited D.C.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/10/18/white-house-public-tours

http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/tours-and-events

[Ella Gibbons]

Thanks, JOANP and BELLE for the information about White House Tours.  Sorry, JOANP, you weren't with us at the beginning, but you will enjoy the book and you can pass it along to the boys in your family.

My daughter is waiting for a library copy (she will not read mine as I make notes and underline) but even though our Metro Library has 90 copies 72 requests still to be filled. 

Is it the story or Brown's writing?  Both, perhaps?

The SS MANHATTAN, what a lovely ship.  Joe explored it all and obviously remembered the luxury aboard as he related it all to our author.  Have any of you crossed the ocean in a ship?  Americans seem to always be in a hurry, crossing in  airplanes, but I do wonder if such luxury still exists in ocean-crossing vessels?   


 

[PatH]

I have crossed the Atlantic in a ship, there and back, but it wasn't exactly luxury.  In 1957-8, Bob had a postdoctorate fellowship in Zürich, and we went over on the America, and came back on the Queen Mary.  We didn't have much money, so were in the smallest, cheapest cabin we could get.  A friend of JoanK's was traveling first class on the America at the same time, so we got to see it a little, but they didn't like people moving between classes.

I'm not really a cruise type, and found it rather dull, except for the salt water swimming pool.  Before you got in it looked like the water was sloshing back and forth remarkably, but of course it was the boat tipping, and the water staying level.

Coming back, the weather was very rough, and everyone was seasick.  I'm fairly resistant, so was OK after half a day, but Bob was sick over half the time.

[bellamarie]

The biggest ship I have ever been on was a three deck casino cruiseliner, that left from Miami, Fla., and took us out into International waters.  It was very beautiful with a formal dining room, live band, dancing, etc.  One floor was all slot machines.  I got very claustrophobic half way through, and just wanted back on solid ground.  We were gone for six hours and that was more than enough for me.  When we docked, I vowed no more cruises for me, mini or otherwise.  I think the fact it was midnight and I felt so disoriented to my surroundings, is what really upset me.  The motion did not bother me at all.

Ella, my library has many copies as well and they are all out.  I think the movie "Unbroken" and the "Imitation Game," have spiked the interest for this time frame.

[Ella Gibbons]

TRACES OF EVIL - interesting photos

http://www.thirdreichruins.com/olympic.htm

[JoanK]

ELLA: "Is it the story or Brown's writing?  Both, perhaps?".

Yes, his writing is very good, isn't it? Even knowing the result, I was on the edge of my seat.

BELLAMARIE:" I would like to have sectioned it off into two parts for our discussion." We did. we just went through the first part rather quickly, since people were eager to move on. But discussion of the first part (qualifying for the Olympics) is still in welcome.

[Jonathan]

'For example, in swimming, those in the center lanes have an advantage.'

How can that be, JoanK? The water course at the Olympics certainly wasn't a level playing field, as they say, and left the Husky Clipper with a serious handicap. More exposure to winds, even slight eddies or currents in the water, not to mention problems in hearing the starter's signal, certainly made for a bad start. And then the crew that tried splashing their way to victory...certainly reflects a lack of training and coaching, poor guys.

How interesting about the swimming pool water staying level in rough seas, on the ocean liner.  Couldn't Bob have camped out there on an air mattress and evaded the discomfort of the ship's motion? My sister was a frequent flyer, tourist class, but had the good luck, from time to time, of being bumped up to first class. Just loved it. Got hooked on it.

[JoanK]

JONATHAN: any time you're dealing with nature, you can't count on things being even. Although in the rower's case, it seems that the difference was so extreme, that they should have designed a different course.

In a swimming pool, the center lanes are best for two reasons: the water kicked up by the swimmers sloshes off the sides of the pool and creates turbulence in the outside lanes: the water is smoothest in the center, thus "fastest". And in the center lanes, you have the best view of where your competitors are, so you can plan strategy better. In races that are often decided by hundreds of a second, these differences are often enough to determine the result. But there's no way around them.

[pedln]

I've just arrived in Berlin, so am a little behind most of you. (Cheated, read the Epilogue to see what paths the team members chose.)

Insert Quote
ELLA: "Is it the story or Brown's writing?  Both, perhaps?".

I think mainly Brown's writing.  His attention to details, even the mundane and trifling add to the story.  Before we started I wasn't really looking forward to reading it.  I'd read The Captain's Table and The Lifeboat within the past few years.  They were fine, okay, but I thought two boat stories was enough.  What a delightful surprise.  And had it not been for the book I never would have tried the indoor rowing machine.  ( I wonder which of Brown's books JUdy had been reading to Joe.)

Last night I was reading in bed, quite late, and came upon the pages about the athletes activities during the crossing.  When Louis Zamperini's name appeared I wanted to be really sure that it was the same Zamperini I'd heard a little about.  So, out of bed at midnight, turn the computer back on, go to Google search   .   .   .    .    One and the same.  Graduated from Torrance High School, unbeaten, setting interscholastic records.

[Ella Gibbons]

PEDLIN, I agree with you.  Brown has done a good job turning Joe's story into a very entertaining, exciting book.  If you have looked at his NOTES, he has alsos done a masterful job of reseaarch.  At times I have been skeptical but I look up the chapater in his NOTES and he states where he found the incidents, but the form, the style , the structure , the history all combined to make this a very popular book.

American stars in the 1936 Olympics:

Ralph  Metcalfe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Metcalfe

Jesse Owens:  -  http://www.jesseowens.com/

Glenn Cunningham  -   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Cunningham_(athlete)

[Ella Gibbons]

http://galleryhip.com/elbe-river-germany.html  - The boys will not forget their journey up the river; it was one of the highlights of the trip as the people of Berlin lined the river and docks along the way to welcome them.  They had no inkling of Hitler’s rulings?  If you  had practiced for  years to make the Olympics, would you have cancelled upon hearing of human rights problems  in that country?   Should the coach have cancelled?

An innovation in 1936 was the Olympic torch relay, lit by the rays of the sun at Olympia in Greece and carried by 3,000 relay runners to the main stadium in the German capital. It is a tradition that has continued at every subsequent Olympic Games.

[bellamarie]

The United States competed at the 1936 Summer Olympics in Berlin, Germany. The Americans were second in the medals table to Germany. 359 competitors, 313 men and 46 women, took part in 127 events in 21 sports.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_at_the_1936_Summer_Olympics

No, if I were the coaches and heard of the human rights problems, I would not have cancelled.  They have trained for years, the facts were not known for certain, I think Hitler did a pretty good job of keeping his actions and intents underwraps at that particular time.

pg. 594 - 595

As Joe drifted into sleep aboard the Manhattan, the first light of dawn crept over Berlin, revealing small groups of men, women, and children being marched through the streets at gunpoint.  The arrests had begun hours earlier, under the veil of night, when police and SA storm troopers broke into the shanties and wagons that were home to Roma and Sinti families-Gypies-and rousted then from their beds.  Now they were on their way to a sewage-disposal site in the Berlin suburb of Marzahn, where they would be kept in a detention camp, well away from the eyes of foreigners arriving in Berlin for the Olympics.  In time they would be sent to death camps and murdered.

Their removal was just one more step in a process that had been unfolding for months as the Nazies transformed Berlin into something resembling a vast movie set-a place where illusion could be perfected, where the unreal could be made to seem real and the real could be hidden away.  Already the signs prohibiting Jews from entering public facilities had been taken down and stored for later use.  The fiercely anti-Semitic Der Sturmer newspaper-with its grotesque caricatures of Jews and its slogan, "The Jews Are Our Misfortune"__had been temporarily removed from news-stands.  In Der Angriff, his principal propaganda publication, Joseph Goebbels had handed Berliners the script for their part in the performance, detailing how they should conduct themselves toward Jews and how they should welcome the foreigners when they arrived:  "We must be more charming than the Parisians, more easygoing than the Viennese, more vivacious than the Romans, more cosmopolitan than London, more practical than New york."

pg. 598 - 599

Foreign books, banned books, books that had escaped the bonfires of 1933, suddenly reappeared in bookshop windows.  With the set fully decorated, Leni Riefenstahl was busily at work mobilizing dozens of cameramen and sound technicians, putting scores of camera in place.

Everywhere she set up cameras, Riefenstahl made sure she had the most flattering angles, generally cast upward, for filming the ultimate stars of the show, Adolf Hitler and his entourage.  Then, with the cameras mostly in place, she and all of Berlin waited for the rest of the cast to arrive.

pg. 627

as Albion Ross had written in the New York Times a few days before, no Olympics before had ever been orchestrated "by a political regime that owes its triumph to a new realization of the possibilities of propaganda, publicity, and pageantry.  Staging the Olympics in the past has been in the hands of amateurs.  Here the work has been done by professionals, and by the most talented, resourceful, and successful professionals in history."

[bellamarie]

One of the most disturbing parts I read in the book was probably this:

pg. 663

Like most of the Americans in Berlin that summer, they had concluded that the new Germany was a pretty nice place.  It was clean, the people were friendly almost to a fault, everything worked neatly and efficiently, and the girls were pretty.  Kopenick was charmingly quaint; Grunau green leafy, and pastoral.  Both towns were about as pleasant and peaceful as anything back home in Washington.

But there was a Germany the boys could not see, a Germany that was hidden from them, either by design or by time.  It wasn't just that the signs__"Fur Juden verboten," "Juden sind hier unerwunscht"__had been removed, or that the Gypsies had been round up and taken away, or that the vicious Sturmer newspaper had been withdrawn from the racks in the tobacco shops in Kopenick.  There were larger, darker, more enveloping secrets all around them.

They knew nothing of the tendrils of blood that had billowed in the waters of the river Spree and the Langer See in June of 1933, when SA storm troopers rounded up hundreds of Kopenick's Jews, Social Democrats, and Catholics and tortured ninety-one of them to death__beating some until their kidneys ruptured or their skin split open, and then pouring hot tar into the wounds before dumping the mutilated bodies into the town's tranquil waterways.  They could not see the sprawling Sachsenhausen concentration camp under construction that summer just north of Berlin, where before long more than two hundred thousand Jews, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gypsies, and eventually Soviet prisoners of war, Polish civilians, and Czech university students would be held, and where tens of thousands of them would die.  And there was much more over the horizon of time.

I have to wonder how the Olympians, who participated in the 1936 Olympics, had to feel, after coming home and learning of all this taking place behind the scenes.  Realizing the atrocities that took place before, and after their trip to Berlin. 

[JoanK]

" Staging the Olympics in the past has been in the hands of amateurs.  Here the work has been done by professionals."

I'm sure all Olympic venues get out their spit and polish, just as we do when we have company. But this was more than that. Interesting that they hid all signs of racial hatred and book-banning. They knew these would lead to disapproval, but at some level, did they also know they were wrong?

There is still controversy over Carter's 1980 decision not to go to the Olympics in Russia. Do you think he was right?