Talking Heads ~ Why Is It A Sin To Read For Fun?

[BooksAdmin]

Talking Heads #4

"It occurred to me that nothing is more interesting than opinion when opinion is interesting..."
Herbert Bayard Swope, creator of the Op-Ed page.

A two week  forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online: bring your ideas and let's discuss.

Our Fourth Selection is: 
Why Is It A Sin To Read For Fun?
By Jennie Yabroff | NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Apr 20, 2009

Rest by Deborah Dewit Marchant
Posted with kind permission of the artist, . All Rights Reserved.
 

Jodi Picoult makes lots of people love books—but has she become too successful to be taken seriously?

If we remove the assumption that reading is virtuous (a Picoult novel is better for you than a reality TV show), then the good/better hierarchy (Virginia Woolf is better for you than Jodi Picoult) collapses, and books are left to stand on their own merits, not their implied nutritional value. In last year's "The Solitary Vice: Against Reading," writer Mikita Brottman challenges the accepted wisdom that reading is inherently uplifting, arguing that it turns us into antisocial misanthropes who would do better to be out in the world than home with a book. It's an intentionally provocative argument, but equating reading—all reading, from the classics to the tabloids—with pleasure feels radical in this age of government-subsidized municipal book clubs. Maybe if reading wasn't so "good" for us, we'd do more of it." -- Jennie Yabroff

Are some types of books "better" than others? More uplifting, more ennobling? Is reading for pure pleasure shameful? Why are prizes not given to the Stephen Kings and Jodi Picoults?

Do you feel guilty about some of your own reading choices? Which ones? Let's discuss!

Discussion Leader: Ginny

[ginny]

Welcome to our popular series Talking Heads, where we talk about current articles in the news or magazines or online. In two weeks we'll be talking about Twitter, but today we're talking about something near to all of our hearts: reading, but not all reading (or is it?)

The article is quite interesting as is the quote from it in navy in the heading here. IS reading inherently virtuous? Better for you than TV? OR does it make solitary misanthropes of us all?

Are some types of books "better" than others? More uplifting, more ennobling? Is reading for pure pleasure shameful? Why are prizes not given to the Stephen Kings and Jodi Picoults?

Do you feel guilty about some of your own reading choices? Which ones? 

Should you feel guilty? Let's discuss!

[CallieOK]

Marking a spot.  Will be back.

[maryz]

The only reason I read is for fun - fiction, nonfiction, mysteries, travel, newspapers, magazines, whatever!  At least since I got out of school and no longer had teacher-assigned reading.  Why else would you read except for your own pleasure and love of learning?

[ALF43]

I think that the majority of us here are eclectic readers.   Personally, I happen to love Jodi Picault because of the way she allows each point of view to be expressed through her various characters.  I also like how she takes a problem of "today" and through a heart wrenching story teaches that there are different perspectives to be considered.

S.  King, I grew weary of a while back. Many times if I am without a book, I'll read anything that is at hand.  Oft times that is pleasure reading- other times I am not so fortunate..  A short story is pleasure reading and reading and sharing ideas about our characters here at SeniorLearn is the best reading of all.

I don't read trash!  I definetly am not a snob nor am I shy or prudish but I just don't get the inane romance novels or a book filled with filthy words.
 Cussing does not bother me but profanity DOES!

I like a story that challenges me to learn; a book that encourages me to research as issue and I love a story that I ,myself,  can not guess the ending.  The main reason I loved Double Bind was because it deluded and bamboozled me.

I also think that what we read is indicative of our moods.  If I am in the mood to meditate, I chose a different variety than one if I am feeling whimsical . 

[Babi]

It's an intentionally provocative argument

  I was glad to see that line in the introduction to this article. I would hate
to think an author would think it a sin to read for fun.

Are some types of books "better" than others? More uplifting, more ennobling?

(Ginny)
  Of course some books are better than others, in many ways.  Some are more uplifting, more ennobling than others.  And I believe I've read more than one post on SeniorLearn and the old SeniorNet to the effect that one can
learn a great deal from fiction as well as non-fiction. 
  Do you learn more about people by reading a clinical analysis of human behavior,  or by reading a story by a good author that allows you to associate, understand and empathize with characters 'living' that behavior.
   And this is before I've even read the article! 

[nlhome]

marking also

[Pat]

What we read is such a personal matter.  I think it will be interesting to see what and how others read.

[Steph]

Oh me, I read anything and everything, but I do enjoy some books more than others. I also feel that some of the authors judged to be supurb are horrible. Philip Roth is a good example for me. I read the first few, but then he got deeper and deeper into a male perspective and just infuriated me. I gave him up and just avoid his stuff. I like female writers more than most males, but that is because of my own feminine leanings. I like Alf tend to read things that interest me right that moment. I always have about three books going at a time and they tend to be quite different. I read some non fiction, mostly biographies and history that I enjoy. I dont read political stuff, no interest in that sort of puffery. I have a personal bias about russian stuff. Just way too belly lint type of stuff.. I love books on the old India, but not the ones in the current time. Hmm. Lots of prejudice built in, I suspect. Love books on WWII, but the perso nal ones, not the battle ones.

[Babi]

"This is the "gateway drug" theory of literature—that once introduced to the pleasures of reading, a child will work her way through increasingly difficult and, presumably, increasingly more edifying texts,.."

  Well, I think most of us here can testify to the accuracy of the "gateway"
theory, tho' I question the 'drug' part of it.

"Implicit in this theory is the idea that at some point reading should stop
being a pleasurable diversion, and start being work..."

  I don't see that idea as being 'implicit' at all. Just because we grow into
more difficult works, doesn't mean it ceases to be a pleasure. On the
contrary.  The earlier, simpler books would no longer be as enjoyable, don't
you think?

[maryz]

"Implicit in this theory is the idea that at some point reading should stop being a pleasurable diversion, and start being work..."

Au contraire!  I think reading stopped being "work" and started being pleasurable.

[jane]

Excellent topic!! I've just finished the article and found several things to comment on.

 I think Harry Potter, Twilight and Jodi Picoult are great. I've only read a couple HPs, none of Twilight series and none of Picoult...but I would no more "condemn" people who enjoy those books/writers than I would say anyone who eats avocadoes should be "condemned."  I've been a bookworm since I was 6 and could get a library card.  I've read (as someone who had  English & French majors and a classroom teacher and librarian for 36 years)  more "great literature" than most people should ever have to endure.  Some of it was wonderful. Some of it was boring beyond belief. Some of it was "OK' and I got through it, though it was certainly not "memorable."

I find that at periods of my life I enjoy certain books and certain authors. For many years I was a lover of mysteries. Now they leave me bored. 

I am always a bit bewildered when one genre or another is berated by others.   We have different tastes in all sorts of things...furniture/food/clothing etc.  Why would our choices in reading be any different?   Maybe some like plain, Shaker style furniture; others are into fancy prisms, ruffles, fringes, etc.  What difference does it make?  Some people enjoy westerns, some sci fi, some romances, some fantasy. So what?  I've heard people say that libraries shouldn't buy "name the genre"...huh?  It's fine to say, "I don't like Romance" and I would say "I don't like Horror"  and even maybe "I don't know why others read it" although I'm a bit puzzled by why I or someone else would decide what  is "acceptable" for everyone else.

I've recently found some books/authors that others (esp.those who contributed to that Newsweek article) would call trash.  Hmmm...let's see...do I care?  NO.  Yep, some are found in the Fiction section...and HORRORS...some by the same authors are.....gasp....gasp....classified as "Romance."  HORRORS!  Yep, in these stories there are problems the characters work through...be it being in a wheelchair or having made some bad decisions, etc. and they end happily ever after. Yep, there's sex and there's swearing in situations where I've heard men and women, including me,  swear all my life. I haven't yet read any language that I didn't hear from students in the 36 years I was in education.


 I don't watch TV, so my eyes glaze over when people start talking about "Survivor" whatever or "CSI" whatever or "Dancing with whomever" or "American Idol or Singer" or whatever that's called. I don't enjoy those. I don't enjoy horror or sci fi or fantasy or bloody/gory/torture kinds of things.  I get more than my fill of the horror on my nightly news programs and in my daily newspaper.  There are, for me, too many things in the world and in my extended family that aren't "happy ever after." I want time, when I'm at home, to offset the horror and the unhappiness of family members with huge health issues or family problems.  If others enjoy that and enjoy reading of the "human condition," then great.  Read and enjoy what you read.

What I read is nobody else's business; I don't have books on display for others to look at and decide what "it says about me."   I don't care if they like what I read any more than I care if they think my love of raw cauliflower or broccoli is distasteful. 

The Zadie Smith views expressed in the article left me cold and less than anxious to ever look at anything she's written.  Why can't I have my own version "of the world affirmed and reinforced"?
 If that gets me away from the world that is causing me to lose sleep and worrying myself into higher and higher blood pressure, why can't I read what provides me with an oasis of calm and pleasure?   


"Implicit in this theory is the idea that at some point reading should stop being a pleasurable diversion, and start being work."

When that happens, and I can no longer find reading that is pleasurable but is work, is the day I stop going to my library and book stores.  There are enough things in life that I have to do that are work. Reading is not and never will be one of them.

Maybe judging people by what they read is just another "measure" that people use to judge others??  Maybe we all do it...with all sorts of things...the kind of clothes we wear, the model car we drive, the furniture we buy, the looks of the house we live in,  the way and color we wear our hair...maybe it's all part of the judgment of others to see if they're "worthy" of our interest?  Hmmm...do we judge others more now than we did as young people or less? 

 My philosophy is that as long as it's legal I'll do whatever it is that I enjoy.

jane

[maryz]

jane, (as usual) amen, Amen, and AMEN!!!!

[pedln]

Bravo, Jane!!!  I agree with it all.  Way to go.

[mrssherlock]

While my brain tells me that judging people by what they read is like judging them by  where they live (all of you wouldn't fit in Oregon so stay away) or any other criteria I must admit that I have found myself, when I want to throw a book across the room, asking "Who reads this garbage?"  It isn't the publisher or the bookseller or the fickle public that gets my ire.  Ultimately I am vexed at the one person I can directly influence, myself.  Your judgment, worth,  merit, etc., is not questionable because you like, say, okra which I HATE.  So the fact that you choose voluntarily to read garbage shouldn't count against you.  Yet, somehow, it does count more when it is a book.  It feels uncomfortable when someone whose opinions I respect likes an author than I can not abide.  Once again I reveal my feet of clay alas.

[Steph]

I think we all have built in prejudices.. Not just in reading but life. I know that if I go in a store and the person waiting on me is all tattoos and piercings, I am not a happy customer. I am comfortable with people who look more like what I think of as normal.. The same is true of books.. music ( ye gods,, I do not understand hip hop), clothing ( If I see one more black bra strap and a pink or blue top, I will scream), exercise or not, fat or not.. Whew.. life is choice and judgement on everyones elses choices.. Bad,, cant help it, we are made to make choices.

[Babi]

JACKIE,  I like fried okra, but buy it already cut and breaded.  My aunt had to
quite preparing it all, because the sap from okra irritated her hands so badly.

  We do have all have our instinctive likes and dislikes, as STEPH has said.  I
find myself responding very much as she does do some of the current fads.
I guess the best thing I can do about that is simply keep my mouth shut.
If whomever is happy with that hairstyle, that outfit, or that tattoo, that's their business, not mine.  Same applies to books. 
  I confess I sometimes equate a type of book to level of intellligence, but I realize that is really dumb of me.  Such books could very well be a form
of relaxation for someone who spends all their working hours with stuff that would be over my head.  I have found, in my life span, that some of my worst mistakes were based on assumptions. 

[maryz]

Steph, it's been tough, but mostly I've gotten over the thing about the weird people waiting on me in stores - at least in music, electronic, or used book stores.  I've found they are generally the most knowledgeable and most helpful.  There's one guy in our used book store that I just can't look at - large nose ring, other facial piercings, and large plugs in his ear lobes - but he definitely gives the best prices on books you bring in to swap, and is unfailingly soft-spoken and courteous.  Oh, well....

[mrssherlock]

Babi:  I can "forgive" you the fried okra, which I have never tasted, but the okra in gumbo is in a whole other realm.

[maryz]

I love okra just about any way.  Our son-in-law plants it each year, and our daughter makes okra pickles (just had two for lunch).  Love it lightly steamed, fried (by somebody else), in gumbo, whatever.

[pedln]

And how do you judge a book if it’s on a Kindle.  Try this from the NY Times.  Read the comments, too.  I tried to add my own two cents, with a link to SeniorLearn, but guess it didn’t make the cut.

With a Kindle How do you KNow It's Proust

Comments

[nlhome]

I love to read for pleasure, but I read so much for my work that sometimes I just don't finish my book. I lose interest, need something more active to do, or in the little time I have, I've lost track of the plot.

So, I read short stories, usually mysteries, but not always.

I mostly feel guilty because I don't read the best sellers, the ones everyone is talking about or recommending, or many of the "classics". Other times, I feel guilt because I have requested a book from interlibrary loan, and then when it arrives I feel obligated to read it, and to be contrary, I don't. However, our library is now so efficient that the books come quickly, before I've lost the urge that inspired me to order them.

I no longer read the big, thick novels, but I admire people who do that. I don't think I read books to impress people, and I try not to judge people by what they read (although I confess that I definitely do judge people by whether or not they read at all) but sometimes I am surprised by people's choices. I remember being surprised that our new neighbor, a young man, was reading some thick paperbacks, some of the popular adventure and espionage novels, rather than sitting in front of his computer playing games. He gained more dimension in my eyes.

I do pay attention to what people are reading, because I find some very interesting books that way. I don't mind others asking what I am reading, either, because I like to share what I enjoy. And these days, if I've stuck with it, I'm enjoying that book.

[Steph]

I have been thinking about books and reading choices.. I realize that most of the best seller list is an unknown quantity to me.. When I had the used book store, I tried people like Danielle Steele and Mary Higgins Clark. Huge sellers in our store, but I could not even finish either of them. I do like Jody Picoult quite a lot, even though I disagree with a lot of her conclusions.She does have the ability to make me think a bit harder about choices.
I agree that some of the most peculiar people in music stores know the most. My objections tend to be in restaurants and food of any type places.. Makes me uncomfortable if my waiter or waitress is pierces in too many visible spots.
I dont like tats, but our older son has one.. A chain around his upper arm. Believe it or not, he hid it from me for over six months. His wife finally told me.. I just laughed and said it was his arm not mine, but I do worry about my 13 year old granddaughter. I tell her that her pierced ears are quite enough holes in her head..She laughs at this point..

[maryz]

I never look at a best-seller list of anything.  A lot of those, I've heard, are based on sales to book stores - not necessarily sales to people to read.  Sometimes a book is on a best-seller list before it has even been released - it's based on preorders of what a book store thinks will sell.  Mainly, though, I read what I want to read, not necessarily what somebody else wants to read.

[Steph]

One of the reasons I love seniorlearn is that I get clues about books and authors, I had not even considered. I also use Bookmarks to guide me. Favorite authors of course..and I belong to an internet swap group and they have excellent suggestions at times.
I am always somewhat surprised in conversation when someone says.." I havent read since High school or college" Its like we should give them a prize or something. I once read a science fiction story about a future world that had dumbed down and that is the sort of people in charge. Even moderately bright people were shunned. Weird, but there are whole days that I wonder if that is happening in our world.

[Babi]

 NL, that makes sense, really.  If one spends a great deal of their working hours reading, something more active after hours would be vey welcome. Good argument for short stories,etc.
  I did like Mary Higgins Clark, but have never been interested in the kind of
book Danielle Steele writes.  I am more than surprised, STEPH, when someone makes that "I haven't read since..." statement.  I tend to stare at them as
though they were alien life forms, poor things. 
   Ah, well. Some people are just very active and can't sit still long enough to read anything. I knew a woman like that; I rarely saw her even sit down,
except to eat a meal.

[jane]

Steph...

Even moderately bright people were shunned. Weird, but there are whole days that I wonder if that is happening in our world.

I agree that it IS happening in many of the very troubled parts of our world and that it is THE reason it is happening.  Uninformed /uneducated/illiterate/and yes..even brainwashed (in the sense that these people only know what they've been told by manipulators) people ARE making the rules that others are being forced to live under.

People who only have one view are easy to control. Tell them only what you want them to know and if they aren't able to think, then control is easy. It happened in China with the Cultural Rev., it's happening in my opinion in Africa and in Afghanistan and Pakistan and in Iran and Iraq.

As the bumper sticker says..."If you think education is expensive, consider the price of the alternative." We're seeing "the alternative" in too many poor countries today, I think.

Reading and the internet are controlled in these countries because they do afford people access to other ideas.

jane

[Steph]

It is surprising to me the number of countries that control the web..
Sad that the populace does not get access to ideas of all types. Extremism, especially religious types have caused so much grief and pain all these years. I guess I have always had problems with anything that says.... My way or no way.. How sad to think that you have to be right, no matter what. How do you learn..
Hmm. this swine flu stuff is beginning to unnerve me. We leave tomorrow on our long awaited trip with planes and trains and automobiles.. The plane and train aspect make me wonder how to keep myself away from people who are already ill and will not stay home.

[pedln]

Steph, is this the long awaited Pacific Northwest trip?  And you'll cross the Rockies on the train?  Have a wonderful time, take your usual precautions, consider the news seriously, but don't let the media make  you worry yourself to pieces.

I'm sure you'll put everything in perspective.

But I understand how you feel.  I've got plane reservations to NY City in June.  If they were for tomorrow, I'd go.  We'll see what JUne brings.

[maryz]

Happy Travels, Steph!  The NW is such a beautiful part of the country.  I'm looking forward to hear all about it.

[mrssherlock]

Steph:  Remember to wash your hands frequently.  I don't know if they have determined if this flu is airborne or spread by contact but washing your hands is the best way to prevent the spread of many germs, I've heard.

[mabel1015j]

I agree w/ everything in post #11, i think it was Jane's post?

At some point in my life i probably would have had some qualms about someone who was not a reader, but at age 67 i have a 35 yr old son who hates to read, always has! I don't know where he came from  , but he's a very interesting young man and is one of the best analytical problem-solvers i have ever known. So, i revamped my impression of non-readers. 

I know several of you love your Kindles, but at this point i can't imagine not holding and turning the pages and being satisfied that i finished and closed the book. I can see the huge advantage of the K in having many books to travel with and not having to hold the large, heavy books, especially since i have fibromyalgia and my hands get very stiff and sore. But, I also love my trips to the library and browsing thru the shelves, seeing the covers and choosing a book. When i can't do that anymore, i will probably consider the K.

The idea of judging what people read is just appalling to me. Also, the snobbishness of thinking less of people who have not, or are not reading "the classics" is just nuts IMO. I have never considered reading Ulyssess and probably never will. I know, that's a prejudice of what i have heard about the writing and i'm registered somewhere as being very against pre-judging anything or anyone. (TIC)  But as Jackie said, that's my feet of clay. It sounds like too much work! And, like many of you, i'm not going to read anything else at this stage of my life that is "work." Isn't one of the advantages of getting older, and especially being retired, is that you no longer HAVE to do ANYTHING (except take care of your health, and that's as big a chore as i wish to have.)? I think it is obvious that the people who wrote those articles are probably in their 30's - 50's. WHOPEE! i'm past that stage! ...........................I can just be me all the time and not worry about anyone else's opinion about anything! .......................jean

[mrssherlock]

Mabel:   

[ALF43]

Reading through these posts from my last visit truly makes me take pause.
 You are a wonderful group to be associated with and I am proud of each and everyone of you in your honest and insightful responses.

Jane, you shine!!

[Babi]

Very true. Some of us are 'word' people, some are analytical 'math' minded.
 Some people learn best by reading, others by hearing or demonstration.
I think it is a matter of how the brain is wired, which in turn is probably
genetic.
  I feel much as you do about books vs. kindle, JEAN. I like to hold a book;
I like the feel of them. I love the aroma of new books and old books. It is
enticing to see one lying there waiting for me to pick it up. I'm not at
all lured by the idea of a kindle.
  I agree that I don't want to bother with a book that I think of as 'work',
tho' I don't mind reading one that might be considered a 'challenge', especially if a have a group of friends to discuss it with, as we do here.  If you want me to tell you the difference between 'work' and 'challenge', I'll have to go think about it for a while, and that might be work.   

[mabel1015j]

I understand about being challenged and agree w/ you about reading a challenging book w/ a group of people. I tend to read a book at first for the story and miss a lot of "symbolism" etc. But i love to hear what other people "read" when they read the book. ..................jean

[ginny]

The thing I can't figure out is why some authors, like Jodi Picoult in the article, feel that they know they automatically are exempted from prizes because of the way they write. That does not make sense to me. Why should that be? What are they lacking?

Stephen King is a good example, boy can that guy write. I still obsess over that short story he  wrote as Bachman about the man and his son going to the supermarket and what happened there, but even tho he wrote a fabulous book of literary criticism, he's not won any prizes that I'm aware of. Why not?

I guess I can't figure out what the "missing ingredient" is that makes some authors win these prestigious prizes and some not. Why some win Pulitzers and some don't.

Or the Nobel.   

So if you like an author, really enjoy reading him/ her, but his works are discounted as prestigious literature,  (I can't read Stephen King any more, because of his subject matter, but he sure makes his characters come alive) then what does that say implicitly about our taste?

Why is...a prize winner different? I have not read Olive Kitteridge yet, but I do have it, it just won the Pulitzer. What others have won?

Here from http://almaz.com/pulitzer/ is the list of the Pulitzer Prize winners, how many have you read and  if you have read one, how is it better/ different/ more worthy/ than others you have enjoyed? 

The Pulitzer Prizes for journalism, literature, music and drama were established by the 1904 will of Joseph Pulitzer, a 19th century journalist. Administered by the Columbia School of Journalism, the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction is awarded "for distinguished fiction by an American author, preferably dealing with American life." Each winner receives a gold medal as well as a cash award of $10,000 (raised in 2003 from $7500). Many Pulitzer Prize Winners go on to receive other literary awards such as the Nobel Prize in Literature. Not to be outdone, the United Kingdom literary elite has their own award, Booker Prizer for Fiction, for citizens of the Commonwealth or Republic of Ireland.

2005   Gilead: A Novel by Marilynne Robinson
2004   The Known World by Edward P. Jones
2003   Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides
2002   Empire Falls by Richard Russo
2001   The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay by Michael Chabon
2000   Interpreter of Maladies by Jhumpa Lahiri
1999   The Hours by Michael Cunningham
1998   American Pastoral by Philip Roth
1997   Martin Dressler: The Tale of an American Dreamer by Steven Millhauser
1996   Independence Day by Richard Ford
1995   The Stone Diaries by Carol Shields
1994   The Shipping News by E. Annie Proulx
1993   A Good Scent from a Strange Mountain by Robert Olen Butler
1992   A Thousand Acres by Jane Smiley
1991   Rabbit At Rest by John Updike
1990   The Mambo Kings Play Songs of Love by Oscar Hijuelos
1989   Breathing Lessons by Anne Tyler
1988   Beloved by Toni Morrison
1987   A Summons to Memphis by Peter Taylor
1986   Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry
1985   Foreign Affairs by Alison Lurie
1984   Ironweed by William Kennedy
1983   The Color Purple by Alice Walker
1982   Rabbit Is Rich by John Updike, the latest novel in a memorable sequence
1981   A Confederacy of Dunces by the late John Kennedy Toole (a posthumous publication)
1980   The Executioner's Song by Norman Mailer
1979   The Stories of John Cheever by John Cheever
1978   Elbow Room by James Alan McPherson
1977   (No Award)
1976   Humboldt's Gift by Saul Bellow
1975   The Killer Angels by Michael Shaara
1974   (No Award)
1973   The Optimist's Daughter by Eudora Welty
1972   Angle of Repose by Wallace Stegner
1971   (No Award)
1970   Collected Stories by Jean Stafford
1969   House Made of Dawn by N. Scott Momaday
1968   The Confessions of Nat Turner by William Styron
1967   The Fixer by Bernard Malamud
1966   Collected Stories by Katherine Anne Porter
1965   The Keepers Of The House by Shirley Ann Grau
1964   (No Award)
1963   The Reivers by William Faulkner
1962   The Edge of Sadness by Edwin O'Connor
1961   To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
1960   Advise and Consent by Allen Drury
1959   The Travels of Jaimie McPheeters by Robert Lewis Taylor
1958   A Death In The Family by the late James Agee (a posthumous publication)
1957   (No Award)
1956   Andersonville by MacKinlay Kantor
1955   A Fable by William Faulkner
1954   (No Award)
1953   The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway
1952   The Caine Mutiny by Herman Wouk
1951   The Town by Conrad Richter
1950   The Way West by A. B. Guthrie, Jr.
1949   Guard of Honor by James Gould Cozzens
1948   Tales of the South Pacific by James A. Michener

(From 1917-1948, the award was given as the Pulitzer Prizer for Novel)
1947   All the King's Men by Robert Penn Warren
1946    (No Award)
1945   A Bell for Adano by John Hersey
1944   Journey in the Dark by Martin Flavin
1943   Dragon's Teeth by Upton Sinclair
1942   In This Our Life by Ellen Glasgow
1941   (No Award)
1940   The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
1939   The Yearling by Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings
1938   The Late George Apley by John Phillips Marquand
1937   Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
1936   Honey in the Horn by Harold L. Davis
1935   Now in November by Josephine Winslow Johnson
1934   Lamb in His Bosom by Caroline Miller
1933   The Store by T. S. Stribling
1932   The Good Earth by Pearl S. Buck
1931   Years of Grace by Margaret Ayer Barnes
1930   Laughing Boy by Oliver Lafarge
1929   Scarlet Sister Mary by Julia Peterkin
1928   The Bridge of San Luis Rey by Thornton Wilder
1927   Early Autumn by Louis Bromfield
1926   Arrowsmith by Sinclair Lewis
1925   So Big by Edna Ferber
1924   The Able McLaughlins by Margaret Wilson
1923   One of Ours by Willa Cather
1922   Alice Adams by Booth Tarkington
1921   The Age of Innocence by Edith Wharton
1920   (No Award)
1919   The Magnificent Ambersons by Booth Tarkington
1918   His Family by Ernest Poole
1917    (No Award)

I've read quite a few of these, and we on SeniorNet read quite a few too. The Kavaliler and Clay... I can't see it.

Why?

 I see two,  is it, of the  Updike Rabbits, they were powerful, that's true, and also very cynical and depressing, but they were no more powerful  than any other good  book. I have to wonder!  I don't see Agatha Christie on there.

So Big, Arrowsmith, The Good Earth, yes I'd agree with those. A Thousand Acres, yes I'd agree with that one tho it's derivative of Lear. They were good books which subject matter decades later you can remember (in the case of Buck and Ferber and Lewis).

Why are these better than, say, Thinner?  Look at that list. A lot of them are big names in literature, wouldn't you like to know what makes "serious" fiction different from fiction?

Is it an "enduring" quality? Arrowsmith I am afraid to look at, because I loved it,  but Lewis is so dated today. I don't know anybody who says "swell" any more.

Does it need to be something that speaks to Everyman?

Or has lasting value?

Dragon's Teeth by Upton Sinclair?   Never heard of it! Why not his The Jungle on meat packing which not only is a powerful (if awfully  and sometimes distastefully grisly) book. very powerful, but   which also  revolutionized the meat packing industry in the US.

 I'll answer my own question: he predated these awards. Maybe they wanted to give him something, have any  of you read The Dragon's Teeth? I must look it up.

I think it's a great topic especially when the shelves are full of new books, why are some of them doomed to be ground up for the  next new book (you do know that's what happens to those remainder table books in the bookstore?)  and some endure?

Why are these better?

[jane]

from Ginny..

So if you like an author, really enjoy reading him/ her, but his works are discounted as prestigious literature,  (I can't read Stephen King any more, because of his subject matter, but he sure makes his characters come alive) then what does that say implicitly about our taste?

For me it says that MY taste is a lot better for what I enjoy than the lit snobs who decide what is "prestigious literature."  I do know I wouldn't want to have to spend any time in their company listening to that lit snobbery.

Whenever someone uses the "it's stood the test of time" argument for greatness of some literature or art, I'm reminded of a lit professor I had as an undergrad who answered that with "So has sin." 


jane

[maryz]

I take book recommendations from friends and family (sometimes) and the folks around here (sometimes).  I almost never take recommendations from lists or pundits - unless it sounds like something I'd like - but definintely not just because it's on some list.

Of the Pulitzer Prize list, these are the ones I've read

Lonesome Dove, To Kill a Mockingbird, Advise and Consent, The Old Man and the Sea, The Caine Mutiny, Tales of the South Pacific, The Yearling, Gone With the Wind

Some of these I have read more than once, and would probably read again.

[mabel1015j]

I read and liked A Thousand Acres, but i tho't i liked it because it spoke to me, a farmer's dgt. I could identify w/ much of what she wrote. I liked the environment of the farm. I also read some of those from the 50's and 60's that Mary mentioned - but mostly i read them because i had seen the movies and liked them: Mockingbird, Caine Mutiny, Gone w/ the Wind, Advise and Consent and later The Color Purple. I don't know that any of them were so much better than other novels i have read. As i mentioned some where on SL before two of my favorite books were Harriet Arnow's The Doll maker and Pat Conroy's Prince of Tides, and as Mary said Conroy's previous books were also good. When i read The Dollmaker - it's a story about an Applachian woman in the 40's - i could hear that woman talking. Arnow wrote the dialect so perfectly that i knew exactly what the characters sounded like. It just came off the page and it was an engrossing story.
 
A few yrs ago i tho't i'd read All the KIngs Men. It was of a period and environment that i tho't i'd really like and i had never read it......................................It waaaas soooo slooooow - i gave it up about a third of the way thru. I found it soooooooooo boring.

So, i don't know the criteria for awards and don't pay much attention to them...............I get most of my reading recommendations from all of you...........................jean