Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online

[ginny]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.

The book can certainly be read on a variety of levels and each one is great in its own way!---Joan R.

Week IV: Finis!

The climax of the mystery rites: the kneeling initiate uncovers a fertility symbol while the winged figure prepares to strike her.
Villa of the Mysteries, Pompeii

What a finish!  What a movie this would make! Were you right? Did you get any of them right at all?

1. What was the biggest surprise for you in this ending full of surprises?
2. What is the climax?
3. Was there a parallel plot? If so who was Iusta?
4. Why did they move to the Hotel Convento?
5. Who sent the note Nemesis?
6. SO much to talk about!  Tell us what you think!
7. Who left the scroll in the courtyard, originally? Remember that one? Why?
8. Odette has surfaced again. What part does she play in this book? Who does she represent?
9.Any book with a Magic 8 Ball in it is magic itself.  Still got a lingering question? Click here and ask  the   a question!
10. What did you like best about this book? (Joan R)
11. I would love to talk about what we each saw as red herrings.  What had YOU individually chasing a clue you finally gave up on, or realized in the end it was nothing more than either a what it represented, or indeed was a red herring? (Bellamarie)
12. Who is your favorite character? (Bellamarie)
13.  Who is  the Queen of the Underworld-- Iusta? (Andrea)

The Return of Persephone by Frederic Leighton(1830)–1896)
Demeter, to whom Iusta still prayed, receives her daughter Persephone at last.

The Initiate is comforted
as the Bacchante begins her wild  dance...
Villa of the Mysteries, Pompeii

---         Interesting Links NYC Interview with Carol Goodman / Book Gathering '08 Carol Goodman Homepage The Philodemus Project -- Herculaneum Papyri Fordham Roman Mystery Religions (submitted by Suzie) Cult  (submitted by Marcie) Real or Fictional ? Links to Classical References in the NIGHT VILLA- researched by participants

Discussion Leaders: Andrea & Ginny

Floor Plan of the Villa of the Papyri by Karl Weber, 1750-.

I agree, I think Carol is one of a kind, and I also appreciated her wonderful answers here, which we will make into an Interview  and post it on our new website with grateful thanks.

THIS has been THE most wonderful exhilarating  discussion!  All due  to your great conversation and a book which could stand up to close scrutiny.  THANK you for your great points of view and your great responding  to each other, you're all the perfect co hosts. I appreciated also your willingness to wait, and in some cases, read along, so that the suspense was able to be maintained, that takes a special reader, many many thanks.

It was a wonderful experience, loved every minute of it.

Eloise, thank you, leg is fine, I appreciate that.

I also need to thank our co leader, Andrea, who I will never do another discussion without:   you are the best, Nurse Ratchett!

Carol, I don't even have any words to  thank you for your incredible generosity both in meeting with us and answering all our questions, and thank you for writing such a  great book, I have loved every second of the entire experience. If I could frame this entire experience, I would, and hang it on the wall.

I personally hope that once Sophie has sat a while in the sun with her Shiner Bocks she will be called into action once more,  like Poirot perhaps, there's a LOT more out there for her to solve!

[nancymc]

I just finished reading 'The Night Villa' which I enjoyed very much and will certainly look out for more books by Carol Goodman.    But I was really disappointed in the end of chapter 32 where they found the scroll in the little statue, I know coincidences happen but this to my mind was very unreal and nearly spoiled the book!!   Did no one else feel the same?

[CarolGoodman]

I'm so sorry to hear about your leg, Ginny!  That's awful. 

I did just want to say a thank you to everyone who read the book and joined in the discussion here.  It's been wonderful reading your comments.  Writing can be a lonely occupation, and hearing all your voices has certainly livened up my days these last few weeks.  Thank you all so much.

I also noticed that there was a question about Italian recipes in one of the posts and I remembered that around the time I wrote the book I also discovered Giada De Laurentis on the Food Network (there's a special in which she travels to Capri) and fell in love with her Everyday Italian recipes, which you can find on the Food Network site or in her books.  It's true that it's hard to duplicate the quality of the tomatoes, but if you have access to some fresh mozzarella and good olive oil you can come up with a reasonable facsimile (ummm ... now I'm hungry for Italian food).

Happy reading and good eating to all of you.

Valete,

Carol Goodman 

[ginny]

Thank you, Carol, I appreciate that, on the leg, and everything else.

I had the pleasure last Tuesday of seeing a group of  my face to face Latin students with whom I went to lunch  exchanging a familiar looking title across the table with "You'll love it." hahaaa

I will look up Giada's recipes, too,   I wonder if she has one for salmon, have been looking for the way they fix it for years. There's a little restaurant in Venice near the train station which does it incredibly, I have no idea how, I certainly can't reproduce it.

NancyMc, no I didn't have a problem with the message in the statue, I liked it.

On a personal note: when we started planning this discussion, I didn't realize that I would have to cancel my trip to Italy this year (leg) but the discussion has been a pleasure and in some ways a vicarious trip: it's  been about as good AS a trip, and I have enjoyed it tremendously. Who knows, maybe the Villa dei Papiri will be open  next year!

Thank you all for a fabulous time!

[Gumtree]

Ginny : It has been a fabulous time. Such a great discussion - so many points of view and red herrings. Loved it.

Special thanks to CAROL GOODMAN for visiting, answering questions and taking our well meant banter in good part.

Thanks to all the posters here who offered so much information and added enormously to my understanding of the novel.

Special thanks to ALF for helping to host the discussion - it can't be easy with so many differing viewpoints to deal with -I'm amazed you still have your sanity....

As for you Ginny - the discussion seems a poor recompense for your broken leg and missing your trip - but I'm glad you feel that way...what would we do without you.

Thank you.

[ALF43]

Carol- once again it has been such a pleasure visiting with you, like we did in NY city, last September.
 Please tell us about your book that will come out in 2010.  You said the setting was in upper NY state, and I have to ask -- is it in the Saratoga and the "Yadoo" venue?

When we met you I knew you could hold your own here and you've shown us what a good writer and reader can be.

Gum-

Special thanks to ALF for helping to host the discussion - it can't be easy with so many differing viewpoints to deal with -I'm amazed you still have your sanity....

That is very kind of you to say that but I must confess I DO NOT HAVE MY SANITY!  That, dear friends, has been long gone.  Ginny can attest to that fact as she's known me for 10 years.

I can't say when I've enjoyed a discussion more, can you Ginny?  It has been educational, inspirational and fun.
It was such a pleasure meeting and getting to know many of you better and to greet my "old firends" once again.
You are all wonderful and I look forward to sharing another story with you around our "table", dust bunnies and all BellaM.

Nancymc- you must have been hiding in the shadows.  
Don't be shy, we love to have a ton of ideas, thoughts and opinions to share here at SeniorLearn.  I hope to see you soon in another one of our discussions.

[ginny]

Thank you Gum From Australia, and Nancy from Ireland!

No I've never enjoyed a book discussion more, it was FUN!  As Andrea has said,  

It has been educational, inspirational and fun.

Thanks to you all!

[bellamarie]

Nancymc, 

But I was really disappointed in the end of chapter 32 where they found the scroll in the little statue, I know coincidences happen but this to my mind was very unreal and nearly spoiled the book!!   Did no one else feel the same?

Not me, I was thrilled the book ended with Iusta's confession.  I really thought it fitting Sophie and Elgin find it, afterall they are the two who decided to begin this project in the first place.

Well, it seems we've cleaned up the dishes, hung up the towels, put on our coats and are giving out our hugs, thank yous and good byes.  I will miss this discussion.  I really don't think I have ever had as much fun. 

Ginny, your questions in the headings, your visuals, your knowledge and challenges to look further into things is just pure.......hmmm  what's that word?   Oh yes,  "MAGIC".  You said this book was magical, I have to say this entire discussion was magical for me.  Learning about Pythagora, Plato, Poseidon, Iusta, Italy, Myths etc. is something I will have to treasure.  I can not express how much it has meant to me.  I hope your leg is healed soon, and you will have your trip to Italy.  We are  hardly a substitute for the real thing, but thank you for graciouisly saying it.

Andy, I can't tell you how many times you made me laugh out loud.  You are the perfect compliment to our dear Ginny, in keeping the discussion lively and flowing.  Thank you so very much for all your insights.  You really did keep me on my feet.  I hope your plane ride home is much smoother than it was going.

Carol, What can I say that everyone has not already said?  Thank you does not seem enough for the gift you gave us in having you present in our discussion.  This book is definetly an Oscar Award winner!  I guess the biggest compliment I can give to you is to tell you today I began reading your book The Seduction of Water.

To all of you fantastic group members, I say KUDOS, between all of you we cracked this mystery and enjoyed this magnificent book!  Since I am sure I will see you all around in the future book discussions, I will say,

Ciao for now....................

[Steph]

Even though the FBI is supposed to be only in the U
S, you will find them in a number of places all over the world. Have a friend with a son in the FBI. He spent a year in Iraq training policemen there.. So yes the FBI could be in Italy especially if they are keeping a close eye on the cult.

[JoanR]

Thank you, Carol, for a wonderful book and thanks to Ginny and Alf for a great discussion!!

I enjoyed the classical background enormously and Carol has a magic way with atmosphere.  You are right there!  I like the way the story ended - just right.

At the end, I suppose Sophie and Elgin should not have opened the scroll they found in the statue when they did,but Sophie had been so involved with and driven by the story of Iusta that she couldn't help it.  Just as the spirit of Odette came to her aid, the shade of Iusta was pushing her!

I met Pedln in NYC yesterday - went to the Strand where we poked about for quite a long time  -  among other things, I bought Carol's "The Sonnet Lover".  Started reading it on the train home - oh, I like it!  Let's have another discussion of  one of her books sometime  Perhaps of the new one coming out next spring?

[Frybabe]

Sounds good to me JoanR. I like Carol's writing style very much. My next Goodman read is probably going to be The Drowning Tree.

[Gumtree]

My next one will be Lake of Dead Languages and THEN The Sonnet Lover

I've already read The Seduction of Water - Bellamarie will love that one.

[Gumtree]

Just for fun: Here's a casting list for the Night Villa movie using Aussie and Kiwi actors - you'll know most of them.

Elgin - Who but Hugh Jackman though we'd have to lighten his colouring
Sophie - Rachel Griffiths would be perfect -she's from Hilary & Jackie
Agnes - Nicole Kidman
Lyros - Hugo Weaving  - he can be made up into anyone
Ely - Guy Pearce - he can do the haunted look
Iusta - Cate Blanchette
Phineas - Sam Neill - he's just so accomplished
Calatoria - Judy Davis - brilliant actress
Simon - Russell Crowe - a cameo role for him as the  salacious satyr

The film would be costly to make as they all command huge salaries.

 

[bellamarie]

Cute Gumtree, I like your Aussie cast. 

[CarolGoodman]

Andrea asked me:  Please tell us about your book that will come out in 2010.  You said the setting was in upper NY state, and I have to ask -- is it in the Saratoga and the "Yadoo" venue?

My next book, ARCADIA FALLS, is set in upstate New York, not far from Saratoga.  The venue is another artists colony that's become a boarding school in the present (so think of it as a combination of LAKE OF DEAD LANGUAGES and THE GHOST ORCHID).  The artist's colony I was thinking of for this book, though, was more Byrdcliffe than Yaddo and I picture the setting as closer to Woodstock, NY than Saratoga.  The narrator, Meg Rosenthal, has left her Great Neck home (coincidentally where I live!) with her teenaged daughter after the unexpected death of her husband.  She gets a job teaching at the Arcadia School which was founded by two women artists in the late 1920s.  While researching the fairy tales written and illustrated by the women she uncovers a secret from the early years of the colony.  There are more fairy tales than Greek myths in this one and a lot of moody upstate New York weather.  Out in March 2010.  I hope you'll all take a look at it.

Also ... (since you asked!)  My husband, Lee Slonimsky and I, have written together a new urban fantasy series under the pseudonym Lee Carroll.  The first book is called BLACK SWAN RISING and will be published by Tor in the summer of 2010.  Although the urban fantasy genre (that means it's fantasy but takes place in the real world--as opposed to taking place in Middle Earth or Narnia) might not be your usual cup of tea, I urge you to take a look at BLACK SWAN RISING.  I've tried to incorporate a lot of the elements that my readers have enjoyed in my "Carol Goodman" books (i.e. a strong woman narrator, imaginative writing, and mythic elements) into these books. BLACK SWAN RISING takes place in New York City and features Garet James, a jeweler and daughter of a gallery owner, who finds a mysterious silver box in an antiques stores which opens a door into another world.  Oh yes, there's also a sexy vampire and an assortment of fairies ...

Again, thank you for reading THE NIGHT VILLA and discussing it with such verve and enthusiasm. 

Valete,

Carol Goodman

[bellamarie]

Just from reading this:

Carol,

She gets a job teaching at the Arcadia School which was founded by two women artists in the late 1920s.  While researching the fairy tales written and illustrated by the women she uncovers a secret from the early years of the colony.  There are more fairy tales than Greek myths in this one .....

I am already excited to read ARCADIA FALLS.  I love fairy tales!

[PatH]

Urban fantasy is very much the cup of tea of some of us.  I await with interest.

[Babi]

 I do want to remark, GINNY, how much I enjoyed those paintings in the heading depicting the ritual we've been reading about. Beautiful artistry!

 I'll also be watching for the 'Lee Carroll' book.  I love a good sci-fi/ fantasy.

[ginny]

Thank you  Bellamarie and Babi, I appreciate that.

JoanR, so glad you and Pedln  got together and you got another Carol Goodman, hasn't this been fun! Maybe we can do another some day, thank you for the suggestion.

Gum what an interesting cast!!

Carol, thank you again, those sound  intriguing and wonderful, and a nom de plume, too!  Don't you love it? A combination of their names: Lee +Carol.   Love it!

. Lots of exciting news here today. What fun it has all been! Thank you ALL!

[ALF43]

Thanks so much Carol for answering my question.
I can not wait until it comes out for the public to read.
 This one, like all of the others, I await with interest and enthusiasm.  I told Carol when I first met her in NY that I had never read any of her novels prior to her agreeing to meet with us.
 A couple of months before we all met for brunch, I bought and read all of her novels and was blind sided by the fact that I knew exactly where she was talking about, in each venue, each story- having spent a good deal of my adult life in those areas she described.
  By the time I met her, I felt an immediate camaraderie with her; it was as if I knew exactly who she was and I loved her already.
Now- really- how well do any of us know one another BUT that was how I felt- a kinship deep enough to interview her without any qualms at all.

Lee Carroll, huh?  How come not Carol Lee?
We've got to wait for Black Swan AND Arcadia both at the same time?  Do I have to pass the time in "Woodstock" the way I did in 1969?  Oh boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ALF43]

Oh by the way, in closing, guess what?  Today as I was reading along in this book up popped Demeter in the discussion.  I chuckled and said "hey Carol, we're still here."

[PatH]

Thanks again, Ginny and Andrea, for leading such a super discussion.  All the hard work you put in finding extra material, pictures, sites, references, really added a lot.  And thanks to everyone else for making it such a lively discussion.

And especially, Carol, thanks for all your time and patience.

[Steph]

Lee Carol.. will put it down on the list. I am already looking for her previous books. Found one in Chautauqua..Once I get through the massive Elizabeth George in paperback, will read the one I found..

[ginny]

Thank you, Pat. I enjoyed it, too. I originally had the question, now that we're through, be honest, what did you learn from this book (in addition to a good read) that you did not know previously but I removed it.

Still I doubt sincerely there is anybody here who did not learn something new.

I'm willing to bet 99.9 percent of those starting this book did not know what a sillyboi was. I loved Andrea's remark on somebody, that "silly boy." hahahaa

And isn't it exciting to hear of all the places people are finding Carol's books, both here and on other areas of the site. I love that. Makes it even more wonderful.

I, myself, was not up on Iusta, until I read the  Deiss, who did a fabulous job of sorting out the almost indecipherable stuff on it previously found on the internet, I was not clear on the entire topic.  But I am now. It was very good of Carol to put the sources of her research, I liked that honesty very much, because when you see the original you can appreciate more what she did with it: she totally recreated the ending.

The mythology is the same way. I am willing to bet 99.9 percent of people who start that book have no idea what the Eleusinian Mysteries actually were. Not that anybody knows, but as JoanR said, the permutations could keep you up at night.  So she wove a tale about them. Again to appreciate what she did do it's good to sort of (if you can stomach it) know something of the original.

I was not up on multispherical imaging of papyrus scrolls, nor the hideous ways they have tried over the years to read them: the destruction, it's incredible. Maybe Pythagoras's Golden Verses was burnt for firewood in the early days, if it exists at all: entirely possible.

I particularly liked the Sider book's take on Roman scrolls and his showing various old illustrations of people in ancient art  reading scrolls who are doing it incorrectly!!

One of the papyri found was account of Cleopatra's having criminals put to death in various ways so that she might decide on her own way to die.


I have really loved  this experience, thank you all!

[Frybabe]

I am having mixed feelings about this discussion ending. What a super great discussion it has been.

For me, I think the discussion actually held my interest better than the book. Comparing The Seduction of Water and The Night Villa, I like "Water" better as a story. While archaeology, especially Roman, in general is more to my liking than Irish myth, the lead character, Iris, appealed to me more. I didn't have to constantly say "Where are your BRAINS, girl" to Iris as I did with Sophie.

I love Carol's first person narrative and the way she weaves fables/myths/fairytales into the story, paralleling, converging and diverging again, myth with "real life".


Next up is The Drowning Tree.

[bellamarie]

Ginny, "Still I doubt sincerely there is anybody here who did not learn something new."

I know I learned much and I would like to share a few things I have picked up.  Now don't think I could begin to speak Latin on my own, but with the help of some great sites I would never has visited had it not been for this book, I shall attempt my good byes.  Go ahead and laugh....I know I am. Looking foward to the next book,  Apudne te vel me? (Your place or mine?)

Ab (ex) uno disce omnes.   From one person, learn all.
Docendo discimus.              We learn by teaching.
Obesa cantauit.                 The fat lady has sung.
Cura, ut valeas!                 Take care!
Ab imo pectore.                  From the bottom of my heart.
Habetis bona dewm.           Have a nice day.
Te valere jubeo.                  I bid you farewell.

Vah! Denuone latine loquebar?  Me ineptum.  Interdum modo elabitur.    
Oh! Was I speaking Latin again? Silly me.  Sometimes it just sort of slips out.

Ciao.............

[pedln]

Finally back, after a week without Internet – the cable guy who came to daughter’s to install it needed to get a ground wire over the three story building , and didn’t have a long enough ladder.

I’ve finished the book, but haven’t had a chance to get caught up on all your posts.

But, Carol, thank  you so much for being with us, thank you for writing this terrific novel, (and for letting me be right in my feelings about Elgin.) And for having doubts about Ely.  Joan Roberts and I had a great time discussing it when we met in Manhattan last week, and at the Strand she was lucky enough to find a review copy of The Sonnet Lovers.  I was tempted, but have to get my hard copies a little closer to home. Also, I’m surely looking forward to reading  Arcadia Falls.

This discussion has played a big part in my enjoyment of  the Night Villa.  I’ve learned so much, and look forward to exploring all the resources and links that have been mentioned here.  Thank you everyone, especially Ginny, Marcie, and Andy, our super duper leaders.  But truly, I really needed this duscussion to find and understand a lot of the finer points here.  

Oh, Ginny, thanks for the link to Shiner.  I don’t drink beer, but my daughter does, and I was telling her about our Sophie and how she liked nothing better than a Shiner something.  (except I couldn’t think of the “bock”.)  Glad to hear the leg is fine.

[Steph]

What a wonderful discussion.. And it finished just in time, since we are on our way to an rv park that does not have wifi or cable. It is close to wine country in upstate New York and we will be there for a weekend before moving on to Thousand Islands. Tried yesterday to book into the Culinary Institute in Hyde Park for later in July.. Absolutely nothing in any of the five restaurants fr either lunch or dinner. I am told you need about 6 weeks notice, not 2.. Alas,,maybe next time.

[ginny]

It really has been the most fun, and now we have Latin from Bella,  and travelers in Steph and Pedln, welcome back Pedln, safe trails, Stephanie, and like Frybabe, I also hate to see it end. What a delight you all have been, and I agree, thank you Carol, we're getting up her answers in our own author Interview, and Reader's Guide, which was inspired by many of your thoughts and questions. We'll put a link to it when it's up.

Such fun!!

[ALF43]

I echo Ginny's sentiments.  I thank each one of you for making this a terrific discussion.