Classics Forum

[ginny]

  

The Classics Forum

Paestum

Paestum, a complex of Greek Temples in  Southern Italy.

Welcome to our Classics Forum, which is our public discussion for those interested in the Classics. Since our Latin Classes are not visible to the public but we have a great many people interested in talking about the Classics, we've put this discussion up for your interest.

Please share here news, clips, magazine or newspaper articles, movies or television shows and especially books  you find that would be of interest to those of us who love the classics world.

Everyone is welcome!

Congratulations to the Class of 2013 and their awesome results on the National Latin Exam! See post 584 below!

It's never too late to learn Latin!



Interested in learning more about our Latin Courses? Click here: Learn More About Our Latin Courses

[ginny]

Thank you. I have actually been looking for this article, which I read on the BBC App and had not had time to track it down. I think it's quite interesting in that there appear to be two distinct sides to Latin now, the Living Latin or spoken Latin and I guess the real Latin, depending on how you look at it.

I loved Mary Beard's response. hahaha

I am so sorry about Oscar, did the swelling on his nose decrease? Perhaps this latest problem could  have something to do with that? When do you see the Specialist?

[Frybabe]

Oscar's bump has subsided considerably, but there is still a little one there. Nothing scheduled for a specialist yet. We are waiting to see if he has more trouble. He is recovering from the fall quite well, but I am still nervous about it. He is back to racing down the stairs whilst I cringe and tell him to slow down. Fat chance he listens. He is not back to chasing Lucy yet.

[Maryemm]

 As a cat lover I'm delighted Oscar is recovering from his "catastrophic" (!) fall. ("pause" for a groan).  

We have two cats our daughter asked us to "look after" when she moved away to a more built-up area. That was fifteen years ago! Jasper and Horace, brothers will be 16 in May.

Horace was chased by a Dalmatian last year and ran up a tree to escape. When he jumped down and  came back across the lawn I was horrified. Horace was struggling to walk and rolling around in a most unsettling way. When he reached me he crouched down at my feet.  I held his hindquarters in a firm grip to lift him into the house and he gave an awful "shriek".   I carried him in and placed him on the floor, and in a minute he got up and started walking up the stairs. I couldn't believe it.

When I told a vet friend he said Horace had obviously dislocated a joint and I had somehow put it back in place! Well it certainly saved a few pounds in vet fees! The same cat cost £800 when he had a urinary infection and nearly died. Since pet insurance was introduced vet fees have shot up at an alarming rate in the Uk. As a result people are dumping animals to avoid these extortionate charges. Sad!

[Babi]

 Ouch!  The regular vet fees here are bad enough.  We certainly couldn't afford our two cats at that rate! 
I didn't know there was such a thing as vet's insurance, but it that is the result I hope we manage to avoid it.

[Maryemm]

pet insurance. Of course the older the cat, the higher the premiums. Ours are not insured! Daughter paid as they are her cats ; we are just looking after them for her!!

 All vets in our area seem to use one telephone number after hours and weekends. The private company then deals with animal problems............at a cost!

[Frybabe]

Maryemm, we have a few emergency after hours veterinary service places scattered about. The one closest to me uses the same facilities as a local vet group, but is an entirely seperate company. When I still had Twerp I started looking at Pet Insurance. Unfortunately, they all stop coverage at about 13 years. They also don't cover pre-existing conditions and all, as far as I remember, regardless of policy cost, limit the amount they will cover. I hadn't thought about how that may have affected Vet charges.

[Maryemm]

 One Million Brits Descended from Romans

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9888402/One-million-Brits-descended-from-Romans.html

[Frybabe]

I just ran across a book co-authored by Andrew Lang and, of all people, H. Rider Haggard. It is called A World's Desire, and is a story about Odysseus when he comes back from a second voyage to find Penelope probably dead and Ithaca suffering from the plague. The only reviewer so far gives it a five star rating. Needless to say, it had been downloaded to my Kindle, but who knows when I will get around to reading it.

http://manybooks.net/titles/langandr27632763-8.html

[Maryemm]

JRR Tolkien ring goes on display at The Vyne exhibition

   The ring, which is inscribed in Latin and has been linked to a Roman curse tablet, is being exhibited for the first time at The  Vyne, in Hampshire



 

See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-22008746

[Maryemm]

Archaeologists find 10,000 objects from Roman London

Discoveries include writing tablets, thousands of pieces of pottery and a large collection of phallus-shaped luck charms

See:   

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/09/archaeologist-objects-roman-london-find

and: 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306443/The-Bloomberg-Place-Construction-Site-Archaeological-dig-London-heralded-capitals-important-excavation.html

[Frybabe]

Thanks, Maryemm.

Also, this morning I read an article about Welsh slate. They are hoping to have Welsh slate designated as a Global Heritage Stone Resource. The “Global Heritage Stone Resource” was first proposed at The 33rd International Geological Congress in Oslo in August 2008. They hope to award their first designation within a few years. Of course the Romans made use of the slate in their forts. What I was looking for and don't see is how extensive its use was in Roman times. Since it was considered a high quality products, I expected to see more info on uses and, perhaps, export. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22097403

[Maryemm]

Slate quarrying in North Wales is a very old industry and many Roman forts had a nodding acquaintance with Welsh slate.  When one travels around slate-producing areas  today one can see the landscape disfigured by huge piles of waste. One ton of saleable slate would produce around 30 tons of waste.

It was a hard life, and a badly-paid one.


See: http://www.wales-underground.org.uk/slate/history.shtml


My family home in Wales had a slate roof. If a slate was dislodged it had to be replaced with a new one as they broke easily. Each individual slate was quite expensive.

Today one can buy slate clocks, calendars etc. mementos of a bygone industry. In his garden or son has a very tall slate "obelisk" which is a water feature.

[ginny]

Oh how interesting, Mary~! I always thought those old slate roofs were so pretty, and did not realize how breakable they were, what an interesting thing you've brought here, many thanks.

I once went down in the Big Pit at Abergavenny in Wales, it was while the last pony was still alive, it was wonderfully amazing to see. i still have a real miner's lamp I bought at the time with his number on it, they sold them then, they may now. Such a hard life.

Also in the news, the HQ for the new Bloomsberg building in London seems full of Roman ruins, they are calling it the Pompeii of the North: lots of fabulous photos: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/10/archeological-dig-beneath-bloombergs-future-london-headquarters-reveals-ancient-roman-ruins-dubbed-pompeii-of-the-north/

[Maryemm]

Heartfelt sympathy towards all injured, or traumatised, by the Boston bombings or the Texas explosion, and to the families of those killed. So sad.

[Maryemm]

Hadrian's Wall: Aerial photographs 'could change history'

Read all about it here at:    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-22079835       

 

[Maryemm]

 Professor Mary Beard has a confession to make : she is a shoe addict. Most are flat-heeled and her favourite pair that carried her through the BBC series "Meet the Romans" were "once-gorgeous gold trainers"

She has this to say about the Emperor Caligula,

"When he held out his feet in the faces of his guests it wasn't , as some people said, so you should kiss them, but so they should admire his new shoes".

She further states that

"the ghastly Emperor Elagabalus - who ruled in the third century AD and was said to have outdone most Roman monsters in lavish excesses - is also said to never have worn the same shoes twice".

[BruceGra]

Just like the first day at school. Where do you go to register?
 

[jane]

Hi, Bruce...

Enrollment for Latin classes will open in mid July for the Sept. start.  It will be announced on this website and on the classics page:

http://www.seniorlearn.org/classics

I will put your name on the list to be notified when enrollment opens, but please check back here and on the classics page in July since emails can and do go astray.

For more information about the class, please see our course description page:

http://www.seniorlearn.org/classics/courses/descriptions.html

If you have further questions, you can email me at janeiowaLatin@gmail.com

We'd be delighted to have you join us.

jane

[Frybabe]

Welcome, Bruce.

Since it will be a while until the next Latin classes start, please come and join us on some of our other forums. We have a wonderful group here; our discussions range over many subjects.

Margie

[BruceGra]

Any thing I can read now to get confused with so I don't have to do it all later?

[jane]

Let me check and get back to you, Bruce.  Did you have any questions after reading the courses description page?  

http://www.seniorlearn.org/classics/courses/descriptions.html

If so, email me, please.

jane

[BruceGra]

No I was just kidding.

Bruce

[jane]

Bruce....AHHHHH....saving up your work time for when the classes start, huh!  

Anyway, here's a listing of books from our Latin Instructor that maybe Latin students or those interested in the Classics in general would enjoy:


 
Recommended Reading:
 
1. Pompeii: The Day a City Died by Robert Etienne ISBN 0-8109-2855-8
 
This small paperback book, often sold in museums, is solid color plates packed with accurate information, history,  incredible photos, diagrams, paintings and literary references. Hard to get and worth every effort.
 
2. Pompeii A Guide to the Ancient City by Salvatore Nappo  ISBN: 13: 978-0-7607-1235-1
 
This book recently discounted by  Barnes and Noble at $9.00 hardback,  is a joy of illustrations and accurate material. It's authoritative and super. It takes each house in order and explains it individually.
 
3. The Lost World of Pompeii by Colin Amery and Brian Curran Jr. ISBN: 0-89236-687-7
 
Beautifully illustrated, meticulously researched, a super approach to understanding Pompeii
 
4. Vesuvius: A. D. 79: The Destruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum: ISBN: 0-89236-719-9 by Ernesto De Carolis and Giovanni Patricelli
 
This book  takes a fascinating scientific look at what happened when Vesuvius erupted in 79 A.D. Fascinating and well illustrated.
 
5. Pompeii by Robert Harris.
 
A book of fiction  about Pompeii at the time of the eruption, now being filmed as a movie. Some knowledge of aqueducts can be gained here. If you like historical fiction, this book and any book by Lindsey Davis who writes mysteries with Roman themes, ex: Two for the Lions (on Gladiators) (endorsed by many Latin teachers) will place you immediately into Pompeii (Harris)  or  Rome (Davis) vicariously.
6. The Complete Pompeii by Joanne Berry.  Dr. Berry's book is a large book with tons of photos and the very latest thought as of 2007, on Pompeii including some information on the bombing of Pompeii in WWII and the fact that it's not a time capsule. Great to check out of the library.
 
7.     The Fires of Vesuvius: Pompeii Lost and Found by Mary Beard. This is the new (2008) American title of Dr. Beard's book, (the UK original is titled Pompeii), which debunks a lot of formerly thought information on Pompeii and postulates some startling thoughts as well. Dr. Beard, who teaches classics at Cambridge, has a blog online also. This one is the most scholarly of the bunch and the least illustrated but it's really good for spot information on different things.
 
8. A Natural History of Latin by Tore Janson. This book is not only eminently readable and enjoyable, it fills in the gaps and answers a lot of questions people have on what happened when the Roman Empire fell, how long Latin actually lasted, how Church Latin developed, and the surprising opportunities still available in the field. Highly recommended!          
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Large Books:
 
1. Pompeii: the History Life and Art of the Buried City: by Marisa Ranieri Panetta:
 
 Huge lavishly illustrated "coffee table type"  book authored by 19 specialists in different areas. This IS the book of books on Pompeii, if you can lift it.
 
2. Pompeii:  Filippo Coarelli, ed.
 
A $24.98 knock off of the Panetta, also huge and heavy but not quite as large. Another coffee table book, and just as heavy but sumptuously illustrated, like the Panetta.
 
3. The Gardens of Pompeii: Herculaneum and the Villas Destroyed by Vesuvius: by Wilhemina Feemster Jashemski  
 
The seminal, old, and extremely expensive ($250.00) examination of the gardens and other things of Pompeii is a classic, if you can find it and lift it.
 
 
Biographies:
 
1. Cicero by Anthony Everitt
2. Cleopatra: a Life by Stacy Schiff
3. Caesar: Life of a Colossus by Adrian Goldsworthy
4. Antony and Cleopatra by Adrian Goldsworthy
5. Augustus by Anthony Everitt
 

[ginny]

The waiting is over and the results are in and once again our Latin students have distinguished themselves by winning awards on the National Latin Exam!!!

This year 150,000 students from all 50 states and 13 foreign countries including Australia, Canada, China, France, Germany, Iran, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, Poland, Taiwan, the United Kingdom and Zimbabwe and the Netherlands  from all levels including college and university, took  the National Latin  Exam.

I4 students from SeniorLearn.org took the exam this year and all 14 brought home awards. You can't get better than that!


First our Perfect Scores!

For the Introduction to Latin Exam: only 688 students from the 19,100 who participated in this test made perfect scores and 3 of them are ours:

Congratulations to:


Cetomko

Susnagirl

Wendover

On the Latin I Exam and Latin II Exams: only 792 students out of the 140,000 who took the exams  achieved a perfect score, and 3 of them are ours.

Congratulations to:

Perranza (Latin I)

Suetonius (Latin I)

Geoff  (Latin II)


Here  is a list of all of our splendid winners of whom we are so proud, listed in the order received from the NLE:

Cetomko:  Introduction to Latin (1st place)

Wendover: Introduction to Latin (1st place)

Susnagirl: Introduction to Latin (1st place)

McTier: Introduction to Latin (1st place)

Fran Raymond: Introduction to Latin (1st place)

Perranza (Latin I) Gold Medal

Suetonius (Latin I) Gold Medal

Hepeskin (Latin I)  Gold Medal

Betelnut (Latin I) Magna Cum Laude

Marilyn (Latin I) Gold Medal

Harry10 (Latin I) Gold Medal

Geoff (Latin II) Gold Medal

Cielolama (Latin II) Magna Cum Laude

MelandraII  (Latin II) Gold Medal




Many congratulations to all of you for this incredible achievement!! And congratulations, too, to all  our other excellent Latin students who did not take the test this year. Whether one takes the test or not, the level of achievement and enjoyment in our classes is very high.

[ginny]

Welcome, Bruce! You've come to the right place for Latin. Love your sense of humor!

[Maryemm]

Oh WELL DONE EVERYONE! Congratulations also to you, Ginny.

[ginny]

. Thank you, Mary.   They really did wonderfully. 

[Frybabe]

I've just run across a philosopher I never heard of before - Plotinus. Classified as a major philosopher, he was born in Egypt and died in Campania (204/5-270 AD or CE, if you prefer). He belonged to the Neoplatonic group of philosophy and had been a student of Ammonius (I like that name) Sacca who was a founder of Neoplatonism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotinus

I was just checking a timeline of Roman occupation of Egypt. Plotinus was born in Lycopolis while Egypt was still a Roman Province, and with Caracalla's proclamation, would have become a Roman citizen. He died about the time Rome lost out to Zenobia after a number of revolts.

His complete works, translated, are on Project Gutenberg, and now on my Kindle as well. I've never been a fan of Plato, but this guy has me curious. He influenced many people, including early Christians. On the surface, it looks like he was of the one God philosophy rather than the Holy Trinity side. Will all the other books on my Kindles, I wonder if I will ever actually read any of it.

[Frybabe]

I was wondering about what happened to Zahi Hawass since he disappeared from the scene after the revolution in Egypt.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Rise-and-Fall-and-Rise-of-Zahi-Hawass-208348331.html?c=y&page=1#Pyramid-Scheme-Zahi-Hawass-and-Giza-murals-1.jpg

[ginny]

Wow~!!! Is that the new Smithsonian? I take that, it's in a stack which came while I was on my trip.  Let me run get it~!  Wow~

I can't wait to read it. He made a LOT of extravagant claims, and wasn't he the one who wanted to rebury a lot of the mummies?

Thank you for bringing it here. The Smithsonian used to offer a lecture by him as part of their excursions to Egypt. Wow~!!!

[ginny]

OK I've read it and wow. I was wrong it was the National Geographic Society which used to offer, on their trips to Egypt, a lecture at a tomb by him and he was getting $200,000 yearly for those little talks. I think that's fascinating and shows you why their trips are so expensive.

THAT is a fascinating article. it says that the 62 tourists killed in Egypt and then 9/11 cut tourism in Egypt in half. I am not surprised. I was supposed to go to Istanbul this time and Izmir and I sure am glad I paid attention to the government site here and its warnings and did not go.

I did not realize that if the US Govt advises against travel  (and they didn't put that final ban on Turkey before I left but there was enough to dissuade me) it means that they may not be able to help you should you get in trouble overseas in that region. We have this idea that I'm an American and the Embassy will zoom in and get me out and that might not be the case at all: they might not actually be able to.

We do live in a changing world.

Or, actually, maybe not, when you read about the travels of the ancients.

[ginny]

I'm reading Confronting the Classics by Mary Beard. It's a new book, 2013, and consists of a compilation of her reviews, and lectures and speeches and it's really excellent. It includes her 2011 address at the NYC Public Library which one of our students was lucky enough to hear. I am really enjoying the various essays.  The cover says "A provocative tour of what is happening now in Classics--learned, trenchant and witty."

It is that. Greatly recommended.

[Maryemm]

I haven't seen that title around, Ginny, but I'll certainly look out for it. Thanks.

 Where did you get to this time? Nephew and wife have been to Turkey a couple of times this year as they love the country. Sad all these troubles prevent one from visiting countries that used to be so hospitable. What is happening to the world!

[ginny]

I know. I was supposed to BE in  Turkey but instead I went to England, Italy and Germany, all Roman stuff.

I got that book in Blackwell's in Oxford and I think it's quite new.

The House of Caecilius was open, after 10 years of staring past iron gates. It may have been a fluke but it sure was different to step inside and gives you a completely different perspective. Only one of the three doors were unchained, however, and it may have been one of the Pompeii surprises they occasionally do. It sure suited me.

[Poppaea]

Mary Beard's new book, ''Confronting the Classics'' is on pre-order at Amazon. It's coming here around mid-September. I have put in for it.

[Frybabe]

My latest library book should prove very interesting. It is called  A Most Dangerous Book: Tacitus's Germania from the Roman Empire to the Third Reich by Christopher Krebs.

Here is Mary Beard's synopsis: "An important and riveting story, A Most Dangerous Book shows not only that classical literature is still relevant in the modern world, but it can be dangerous, explosive, and positively dynamite. This is a brilliant history of the long life of  ancient Germany and the Germans---from the first century to the Third Reich. And it's all through the lens of Tacitus, the ancient world's most brilliant and cynical historian."

[Frybabe]

"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest do not happen at all.  The conscientious historian will correct these defects."
- HERODOTUS

Ok, so is Herodotus advocating that historians should fill in the blanks or change things to "correct" history? It is an odd statement coming from an historian.

[Maryemm]

 Well "historians" certainly filled in the blanks as far as Richard III was concerned. It was a case of classic character assassination followed by genocide!

  I believe some people claim today that the Holocaust did not happen.

 Herodotus, though, advocating this?  Hmm!

[Frybabe]

Smithsonian article about how the Chinese saw Rome in the 3rd CE. Don't forget to check out the list of goods the Romans had available for trade.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2013/09/how-third-century-china-saw-rome-a-land-ruled-by-minor-kings/?utm_source=smithsoniantopic&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20130908-Weekender

Here is an article about chemical warfare that killed Romans at Dura-Europas in the Syrian desert around 256CE.
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2013/09/one-of-the-first-known-chemical-attacks-took-place-1700-years-ago-in-syria/?utm_source=smithsoniantopic&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20130908-Weekender