Classics Forum

[PatH]

Interesting.  It must be quite a job sniffing out those records.

[Frybabe]

It is a shame that no-one, including me, has posted in here all summer. I ran across this interesting YouTube site when I watched Britain After Rome: The Age of Arthur by  the  History Time channel on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=History+Time

Voices of the Past is a series of original source readings from primarily ancient writers.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqoGR_EedlhKDVuWNwYWRbg  Enjoy!

[BarbStAubrey]

Wow frybabe - both are great sites - lots of history to learn without reading. So glad you found and shared this which shows the Arthur stories after Rome left Britain - never occurred to me that it would be after - I guess Rome did not leave a moral baseline - but then they were not Christian at that time so maybe that is the key to the endurance and romance of the Arthur stories - they are based in Christian Chivalry which is really only behavior from a Christian moral code - hmm never thought of its place in history from that perspective. 

[Frybabe]

Ran across this interesting episode of Digging for Britain, the other day.  The Horsemen of Hadrian's Wall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_spFy7scX4U

[BarbStAubrey]

Great site - you could spend days seeing all the youtube documentaries on the early days of Britain and all the movies and videos on Arthur.

[Frybabe]

The Economy of Ancient Rome. Quick, more fun than a lecture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMYruhJb8e0

[acitu19]

thank you very much I like to watch rather than read the story

[Frybabe]

There used to be more people who posted things they run across but, sadly, not so much any more. it is a shame.

The last few days I have been watching shorts about people and battles in England in the 800's and 900's. The last one I watched was about the Vikings in England.

[JenB]

I'm not intending to stir up any political debate, but this is an interesting blog post on the Latin Motto that was originally included on cover of Sean Hannity's latest book. 

https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/05/16/sean-hannity-does-not-know-latin/

Quote from the blog post:

Some people have noticed, though, that there is a Latin motto that appears on the front cover. It reads: “Vivamus vel libero perit Americae.” [...] There is a slight problem with this particular motto, though; it’s complete and utter gobbledygook. It is clear that whoever came up with this motto does not even know the basic noun cases in Latin or how they work.

[BarbStAubrey]

Ha funny - it appears young Spencer has equal disdain for Google Translator as he does for Hannity however no mention of the publisher's neglect - ah so and onward as he adds to the climate of the day  - doubt Spencer's review over a short quote will send anyone to a Latin class or to even pull out their old Latin text books which went by the boards as required high school learning in the 60s - haha come to think of it he is showing his hand that fits Joel Stein's thinking in his book In Defense of Elitism.

[ginny]

Jen. Good one! We'll put that in our Latin Lives Today. One of our Latin students  Roxania caught that back in May and apparently it was discussed quite a bit on some of the social media.

It's definitely incorrect.  One has to wonder why somebody wants to use Latin who knows nothing of it, but hey! Intended to give the subject gravitas, perhaps?   hahahaa  Had the opposite effect, didn't it?

 I guess this is a Word to the Wise: Google Translate can't be trusted in English to Latin: it doesn't know the idiom.

[JenB]

Here's a short article from Smithsonian magazine about an artist who has created photorealistic images of Roman emperors:  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/peer-past-these-photorealistic-portraits-roman-emperors-180975558/

The article goes on to point out some of the pitfalls in such an exercise.  They link to a blog post in Medium by Italian researcher Davide Cocci that explores some of the original Latin sources for physical descriptions of the the emperors.  https://medium.com/@davieco/were-roman-emperors-blonde-2255ec77d123

[Frybabe]

In the composite of all 84 Emperors I thought Vespasian looks a bit like Lyndon B. Johnson. I like Vespasian. I don't like Johnson.

[ginny]

Oh fabulous, thank you so much! I KNEW I should not have let my subscription to Smithsonian go! Love Hadrian and Augustus!!

[ginny]

And in a coda on the Sean Hannity book's front cover Latin slogan as "complete and utter gobbledegook,"  it appears that the book was in pre- publication when Mr. Hannity began talking about it in May, but when it was published on August 4th, the Latin subtitle was quietly changed.

" At first, the cover featured the Latin tagline 'vivamus vel libero perit Americae' – a phrase that Hannity told viewers on Fox means “live free or America dies”. But as Indiana University Bloomington classics student Spencer Alexander McDaniel laid out on his blog in May, the Latin phrase makes little sense."   This sentiment was echoed by classicists all over the internet.

“It is clear that whoever came up with this motto does not even know the basic noun cases in Latin or how they work,” wrote McDaniel. “The words in Hannity’s motto are real Latin words, but, the way they are strung together, they don’t make even a lick of sense."

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/aug/05/sean-hannity-removes-gobbledygook-latin-motto-from-book-cover

[Kreg]

Sorry, if this is posted in the wrong place, or inappropriate to ask for a translation. I am new to Ginny's Latin 101. I thought it would at least be an intellectual curiosity.

Today, I came across a poem (?) in a leaf page from the "Buch von der deutschen Poeterey" (1624) - at the time, the most important German literature book about poetry, written during the 30 year European war. (He also wrote "Aristarchus sive de Contemptu Linquae Teutonicae - 1617).

Would someone be willing, and find pleasure, in translating the below?

Horatius ad Pisones:

Descriptas servare vices,
     operumque colores,

Cur ego, si nequeo, ignoroque,
     Poëta salutor?

Cur nescire, pudens pravé,
     quam discere malo?

[ginny]

Kreg, a challenge! Let me put this up in some of the upper classes and see what they might say about it, what fun!

Thank you for putting it in here.

I'll put a link and we'll see if anybody wants to take the Latin Challenge today!

[PatH]

Hi, Kreg.  This is the general conversation side of the site, but some of us are Latin students, so you might get an answer.  It's perfectly appropriate to ask.  I'll put a note in the most likely discussions.

Even if you don't, I'm glad you asked.  Without knowing what they're saying, I like the rhythm of the few Latin poems I've come across, and that book sounds fascinating.

[Vesta]

The Smithsonian magazine's October issue has an interesting article rehabilitating the Emperor Nero's reputation.  Work by a British emeritus professor of Roman history, John Drinkwater, presents an appealing argument that Nero was maligned by Roman historians like Suetonius and Tacitus to justify the Flavian emperors who succeeded Nero.  Some of you may recall the novel or movie "Quo Vadis" with Peter Ustinov's performance of Nero as a cruel and effete ruler so this article presents another view.
You may read it at
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/new-nicer-nero-history-roman-emperor-180975776/

By the way please consider supporting the Smithsonian as the magazine is always interesting and they offer cut rate subscriptions.

[PatH]

That's a very interesting article, Vesta.  It would be fun to see the rebuttals.  I see Smithsonian Magazine has maintained the quality it had back when I subscribed.  You make a good case for starting up again.

I was amused by the seriousness of stepping out of your class role to dare to sing in public.

[JenB]

Interesting item going on sale for anyone with a few extra million laying around...

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/business/2020/10/11/numismatic-guaranty-corp-authenticates-coin-minted-caesars-assassin/5927511002/

[PatH]

That's pretty amazing.  Too bad I already spent my million.

[PatH]

They've discovered two more victims of Pompeii, a landowner and a slave, just outside the walls, and successfully made very detailed plaster casts.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/21/world/europe/pompeii-vesuvius-remains.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage

Warning: the picture of the casts is somewhat pathetic,

[Annie107]

Here is a free and interesting Zoom event for anyone interested in Greek Tragedy!

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
 
The Faux-Real Theatre Presents ZOOM BACCHAE a one-night-only online staged reading of a new translation of THE BACCHAE
 
New York, NY—The Faux-Real Theatre will present Euripides’ ZOOM BACCHAE on Vimeo on Monday, December the 7th at 7pm EST, in celebration of Aaron Poochigian’s new translation of the play (W. W. Norton).
 
The Greek God Dionysus is coming to you online to make sure you are still worshipping him, even if it is socially distant. Dionysus demands ecstatic revels of his worshippers, and Faux-Real won’t let him down. The reading is a loyal interpretation of this 5th century-BC tragedy by Euripides. That is to say, it is scary, crazy, and engaging - a virtual trip into the past that will bring actor and audience together in these quarantined times.
 
This staged reading is free for all. Access and pre-registration are available through Eventbrite. https://www.eventbrite.com/e/zoom-bacchae-tickets-129234787729
 
Translated by Aaron Poochigian, Directed by Faux-Real Artistic Director Mark Greenfield, masks by Lynda White and musical direction by Tony Naumovski.
 
Aaron Poochigian earned a PhD in Classics from the University of Minnesota and an MFA in Poetry from Columbia University. He has published four books of original verse and numerous books of translation for such presses as Penguin Classics and W.W. Norton. For this work he was awarded an NEA Fellowship in Translation. His poems have appeared in such publications as Best American Poetry, The Paris Review and POETRY.
 
Charles McNulty (LA Times) calls the translation “by far the most theatrically assured rendition of the play I’ve encountered.”
 
Aram Kouyoumdjian (Asbarez) declares “Poochigian’s translation . . . a triumph―a remarkably lucid and vibrant rendition.”
 
Founded in 1994, Faux-Real has distinguished itself by staging immersive, boundary-breaking shows in a variety of unlikely, yet highly accessible, theatres and locations. Its visceral approach to Greek theatre is fueled by the knowledge that 2,400 years ago these plays were performed in competitions and had to be highly entertaining as well as enlightening in order to win.
 
 

[Frybabe]

Pathetic, Pat?  BTW, I had not been aware that there was some controversy over the time of the eruption. So, new knowledge courtesy of the woolen clothing. I also didn't know about the horse and saddle. I'll take a look into that later.

Thanks for the info, Annie107. I am not set up for Zoom or any other live-casting so I am out, but maybe they will later on do a YouTube video for viewing. We read and discusses a few Greek tragedies some years back, but not that one.

[JenB]

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/ancient-roman-feasting-history/index.html

Superstitions at the table

The Romans were also very superstitious. Anything that fell from the table belonged to the afterworld and was not to be retrieved for fear that the dead would come seek vengeance

[PatH]

JenB, I'm not sure the dead would appreciate the garbage can their meals would land in at my house either.

[PatH]

Annie107, thanks for the theater link.  I haven't read The Bacchae, so I dug up my copy to have a look, to see if it will force me to make Zoom work for something other than virtual doctor visits.  I've only seen a few of the Greek plays actually acted, but they sure can still hold their own.

You're an Asterix fan!  My husband and I started reading them sometime in the late 60s, and eagerly snapped up the new books as they came out.  We kind of lost interest after the first writer, Goscinny, died, but I still have a pretty complete collection of the early ones.

[Frybabe]

This is an absolutely fantastic find: https://phys.org/news/2021-02-roman-chariot-unearthed-intact-pompeii.html

[PatH]

Wow!  Fantastic is right.  Thanks, Frybabe.

[Frybabe]

While wandering around in YouTube, I found this movie, Emperor, Imperator, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRTh3qqZLkQ The languages are Latin and Teutonic with English subtitles. This is the story of the very short-lived (three months) Emperor Marcus Salvius Otho.

Also found in my daily meanderings, a statue of Emperor Titus that is located somewhere near the Vatican Meuseums. Darn if he doesn't look a bit like Ted Cruz (without his current fashion statement with facial hair). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Tito%2C_da_vicinanze_del_battistero_lateranense%2C_inv._2282%2C_02.JPG

[JenB]

Here's an interesting story about an ancient boundary stone recently unearthed in Rome.  https://www.thedailybeast.com/big-stone-found-in-rome-gets-everyone-all-excited

Placed during Claudius' reign, the inscription on the stone uses the three new letters that Claudius attempted to add to the Latin alphabet.  His new letters didn't catch on.

[ginny]

Fascinating!  Thanks so much, JenB!

[Vesta]

Not sure where to post this but just read this morning that Princeton University Classics Dept. is dropping the requirement for majors to study Greek & Latin languages to intermediate proficiency for the following reasons:
these changes will provide students with greater freedom in their education
as part of efforts to enhance inclusiveness and equity in the curriculum
give more students the opportunity to major in the discipline by eliminating difficulties in learning a foreign language
I think this is sad and dumbing down the curriculum.

[ginny]

Yep, that's not good news. What WILL they then study for a "Classics Major?"

[Tomereader1]

Schools have been dumbing down curricula for years (don't know if  or when Uni's  may have started this).  I have the Next Door app, and am totally appalled at the way people "try" to express themselves, not just spelling, grammar but they get into rants and discussions that don't even make sense, for the most part. 
Remember when Jay Leno used to go out on the street, and ask relatively simple questions to people, and they had no idea what he was talking about.  I mean, first graders could probably have answered me of his questions correctly.

[PatH]

Not sure where to post this but just read this morning that Princeton University Classics Dept. is dropping the requirement for majors to study Greek & Latin languages to intermediate proficiency for the following reasons:
these changes will provide students with greater freedom in their education
as part of efforts to enhance inclusiveness and equity in the curriculum
give more students the opportunity to major in the discipline by eliminating difficulties in learning a foreign language
I think this is sad and dumbing down the curriculum.

That's disturbing, Vesta, and I wonder if they did it to get more students because the university was threatening to close the department for not  enough students.

And Latin is valuable in other ways too.  I knew a scientist at NIH who felt that learning Latin was what taught him to think logically, and my husband felt that Latin had given him a richer feel for English.

[Frybabe]

IMO, this dumbing down business has been going on for a long, long time, but it ramped up bigtime when they decided to dumb down the lower grades so that children didn't have to suffer the disappointment and humiliation of failure, so that they could feel good about themselves, so they can get what they want or where they want without learning to or trying harder to overcome adversities, etc. The colleges eventually have had to follow suit as more and more of the students wanting to go to or find it necessary to go to college to qualify for jobs (most any jobs, nowadays) but couldn't pass the entrance exams, and it was an opportunity to expand, they could not pass up. When I went back to college to refresh my accounting skills and learn computerized accounting programs, I was horrified to discover that most of the 2 years I spent there were on things I learned in high school, very little new, except for learning Microsoft's productivity programs. My accounting professor, when I commented about it and asked him if they don't teach these in high school anymore, replied no. I did get a good Technical Writing class in college though; something I would not have had in high school, and it was an online course. So what have we now? Students who can't do math without a calculator, students who can't write cursive, among other things.

Two extremes? Going beyond Japan with its family oriented emphasis on educational excellence is what Chinese government is experimenting on to get children to concentrate and be more focused. They have the kids wear bands on their heads that measure brain wave activity which shows whether or not a student is paying attention or concentrating on their school work. The devices report to the teacher and  to the child's parents. I assume there is some remedial action involved to help flagging students to improve. I don't know what the current status of this experiment is today. I have to wonder if this is a precursor to mind control and brain washing devices.

Well, that is a little off the subject of classics. What I have been doing lately is catching up on some more ancient history clips on YouTube. The most recent programs I watched were a three hour program on Britain after Rome pulled out (up to around 900AD), and a few short clips on the eastern campaigns. My newest book acquistions include Simon Elliot's The Missing Roman Legion: What Really Happened to IX Hispania?, and three Ian Hughes books, Stilicho, The Vandal Who Saved Rome, Belasarius, The Last Roman General, and Aetius, Attila's Nemesis.

[PatH]

Amen to everything you said, Frybabe.  It was already going when my daughters, now about 50, were in grade school. There were some sports contests in which everyone got a medal. If you hadn’t won anything, it was for “participation”.  I don’t know who it fooled; certainly not my kids.

[Frybabe]

Neat new Roman era find in Turkey:  https://www.livescience.com/box-seats-at-roman-empire-arena