Author Topic: Number Our Days  (Read 48056 times)

bellamarie

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #520 on: July 28, 2017, 12:35:40 PM »
The Book Club Online is the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.



They say that growing old is not for sissies. Are they right? When Anthropologist Dr. Barbara Myerhoff received a grant to study aging she decided to do it on subjects in the USA, and let them speak for themselves.

The result is an "often funny, deeply moving narrative of human dignity and courage."

 "One of those rare books that leave the reader somehow changed."-- Bel Kaufman.

Join us! 


Questions to Ponder on  Chapter 7

Epilogue and Afterword:
This last section lives up to the rest of the book, doesn't it? The Epilogue and the Afterword are full of quotable quotes and ideas, you could do a month on them.

Let's start with stories and story telling.

I think it's important to quote her entirely here:

(page 271). Then if it is remembered, if the stories are still told and retold, does everything change?  Is it made bearable? This was suggested in so many ways throughout this work-- in the bobbe myseh, the grandmothers's stories, the hearth tales that are the application of domestic religion,  and with the wonder rabbis "who knew how to bring Torah to light with a story that went into your ordinary life." It is reechoed in the Holocaust survivors' fierce determination to "bear witness," to return from hell and tell what they had seen. It barely mattered if there were someone listening....

If none listen, nevertheless, the tale is told aloud to oneself, to prove that there is existence, to tame the chaos of the world, to give meaning. The tale certifies the act of being and gives sense at the same time.  Perhaps these are the same, because people everywhere have always needed to narrate their lives and worlds, as surely as they have needed food, love, sex, and safety.


It's interesting when you read a book how many other things suddenly seem to refer to the concepts in it. I'm reading All Fall Down, a modern tale of manners if you will and it begins with this quote from Nora Ephron in Heartbreak:

Vera said, "Why do you feel you have to turn everything into a story?"  So I told her why

Because if I tell the story I control the version.
Because if I tell the story I can make you laugh, and I would rather have you laugh than feel sorry for me.'
Because if I tell the story it doesn't hurt as much.
Because if I tell the story I can get on with it.


The word "profound" is really overused today. But I am hard pressed to think of a more profound book that I've read in the last few years. I absolutely loved it, and the experience.

So let me put in some of the concepts this last two bits take up and see what you think of any or all of them.


1. Storytelling: do you agree with its importance? What part did it play in your life today? Have you narrated your own story to anybody, children, grandchildren, etc? Maybe this is a call to action. Have you ever looked at an old photo of somebody in your family and had no idea who it was and wished there were somebody alive you could ask? Maybe this is a wake up call for all of us. What role does story telling play in your own life?

2. Page 269, After a stroke, Olga "crossed over" and moved to a convalescent hospital.

What does this mean?


3. "Hershel was a broken man."  The interaction between elders and young people, whether of their own families, where you would least expect it, or in the public where it is clear that some young people in Venice, CA, were particularly uncaring, came as a surprise to me. Have you ever heard of something like Hershel's situation? Could he have misunderstood attempts to care for him, or is this a common story?

What about the SOS and the behavior of the thugs  on the boardwalk?  Wasn't the elder's own SOS a hoot? What courage that must have taken.

4. On page 274 some of the many effects of the publication of the book and the movie on the Center are talked about, marvelous! It seems the book and movie itself gave the Center and the folks a real shot in the arm, made them celebrities and best of all, brought their children around again. What would have happened, do you think, to the Center if the study and book had never been done?

5. in the Afterword Shmuel has the last word, and Jacob's 5 birthday parties are not needed, but you know what? Jacob tried and he gets points for that, in my opinion, even if it were to celebrate his own birthday.  I still sense a little ambivalence of the author here about Jacob.

In this chapter we have another imaginary conversation with Shmuel, and the author's loyal attempt to give Shmuel some attention, too, in all the happy times and celebrations. I think he deserves that much.

Were you surprised by the reaction of the Center people to the author's including him in the celebrations? Why do you think they felt that way initially?  What WAS it about him?

Then the author,  by quoiting Professor Ronald Sharp, one of the editors who had nominated him for the literary prize, turned everything around:  "his brave dignity, his piercing and wide ranging intellect were refined, not diluted by his tender and deep ranging sense of fragility....I think of Shmuel as one of the greatest characters I have encountered in a lifetime of reading. He stands, for me, with the great heroes."

To  have one of your  own called one of the great heroes is a pretty powerful thing. Here was a man who did not have Jacob's accomplishments but who triumphed in the end. I have to say I teared up a bit over this section and especially about poor Rachel's  horrific accident and her words following Myerhoff's speech above.  In this section the word "Triumph"  which is in the heading really comes to light, and it's BECAUSE Myerhoff wrote this book.

Had she not, none of us would ever have known any of these folks, would we?

 What's your greatest regret, now that the book is over?

But she's not through. What did you think of this?

6. Page 279:

"Young people in our society no longer spend time with old people and consequently grow up thinking that they will never grow old.  They come to think that being old is terrible so they avoid the elderly. Then the old become invisible, and though you may look at them you don't really see them. They come to feel worthless in their own eyes, and feel their lives have no meaning since no one cares for them.  What a pity we can't be drawn closer together and learn what we have to give each other."

Is this a true statement?  As there will be more elders in 2020 than  young people, and as more and more facilities and venues which cater to elders continue to develop, do you see this gap widening?  Is there a solution?

7. Did you notice, on  page 295, there is a footnote on the Afterword: In Jewish thought, death is irrevocable, and human life runs an inexorably linear course. But through divine mercy an individual or a community may return to a time in the past.  "Sins can be absolved by God, and man can be reinstated in his unfallen state. On a collective level, God can turn back the wheels of time, erase the present era, and initiate the rebirth of the ideal era if biblical history.  These two notions of time are reconciled by Yom Kippur."   This is Schlomo Deshen's interpretation, "The Kol Nidre Enigma: An Anthropological View of the Day of Atonement in Ethnology, April 21, 1979."

Have you ever heard of this theory? What branch of Judaism is it? Is it thought today?

8. And finally, whose story in these two last summations stood out the most for you?

9. What will you take away from this book?


What do YOU think?


 


Ginny, we were posting at the same time.  I am getting melancholy just thinking our time with the Center people is coming to an end.  They will remain with me for years to come, even after we close this book and end this discussion.  I'm so sorry for your two friends decline, it can be very depressing as we watch others age, and lose their vitality.  My friend Sandy is moving into her elderly apartment today.  Yesterday my two grandkids Zak & Zoey (her grandkids as well) went with her to her apartment yesterday, they met so many of the elderly people living there.  Zak shared a sad moment with me, he said,  "Nonni, yesterday when we went with Nene to see her apartment she was a little upset because it took the people two weeks to fix her air conditioning, and there is a stain on the carpet she does not like to see, so while we were sitting in their big room she started crying, and all the older people came up to  her and was hugging her, and being really nice to her." The best I can assess, without talking with Sandy, is she got overwhelmed with the reality of her moving in.  This book, Marilyn and Sandy moving into elderly centers in the past year, has really made me aware of how quickly our lives can change.  I wish your friends well.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #521 on: July 28, 2017, 02:20:40 PM »
Okay, this book has really got me thinking today..... as you can see I am back again.

Ginny you touched on something I found interesting and need to comment on:

That, if one is mentally and  physically up to it, that community  can extend to an online community, too,  even tho the person is  not physically present daily in person.  In the Center's case, It's almost an ideal situation:  they are free to come and go, to get companionship when they want it and not when they don't.

When I read this it made me think of how many people I have met online in the few past years.  Since I have become a Facebook member, by the urging of my daughter in laws, I have become friends with so many people who I have learned use Facebook as their source of communication with others, due to their incapacity to get out of their homes because of health issues.  I have also met people going through so much more than anyone would know, but for some reason they find the courage to express on a social site, when they don't feel they are able to in person to their loved ones or friends, they have known for years.  People "need" people no matter what age, race, religion, creed or gender.  People need to communicate, and interact with others to give life a purposeful meaning.  The Center people did indeed look forward to their visit to the Center.  I see them becoming one big family, feuds in all. 

I have to share this with you all, my nine year old grandson Zak just said to me, "Nonni can I ask you a question, it's a question that I think about alot ,and I am sure no one has ever asked you.  Okay, are you ready for the question?  What is the meaning of life?  I really want to know."  I could not believe my ears!!!  I told Zak,  "Oh my goodness, that is a big question, and my online book club is trying to figure that very thing out while discussing this book."  I told him I'll have to think about it, and get back to him.  Where does he come up with these questions?  I have a feeling I will have to come up with some really insightful answers for him soon. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #522 on: July 28, 2017, 03:04:49 PM »
One insightful child your Zak - I remember asking that question of many adults when I was a kid and here I am at age 84 still asking what is the meaning of life and what is the reason for my life since, few of my imagined ideas about life ever came to be a reality - What have I learned, in what do I believe and why me... other's die early including my eldest son - some die spiritually, some never develop, some are killed because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time - so why am I around, is it for a purpose or the luck of the draw - do I owe my life to anything - lots of philosophical answers - some nab it and others just add to the pie in the sky - so what is it all about. With that I would suggest to anyone who questions what or why - our life is about our individual search for the meaning of life and how we live our life is the only thing we can do anything about.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Jonathan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #523 on: July 28, 2017, 05:25:07 PM »
I'm very rapidly reaching the limits of despair and frustration. A link to the the Myerhoff film and my crotchety old computer wont serve it up. But I'll get to it. Thank you, ever so much, Barbara. And what a thoughtful post. I must say, that men find it even more difficult to find the meaning in life.

The opening line in this chapter struck me like a thunderclap.

'Basha: Men are helpless. No matter how strong they are, the truth is they can't take care of themselves.' p232

God thought so too, and woman came into being. See biblical account. I've had a wonderful time rereading this book in the company of all of you. I picked it up so many years ago when I set out to learn Yiddish. And now I'm digging around among all the other books I acquired while doing so. One especially. The Life of Glückel of Hameln, 1646-1724, Written by Herself. Glükel was an amazing woman, mothering a large family as well as being a very successful business woman. Now I have a question for Bubble. Quoting from the Introduction:

'When her husband Chaim died she still had to provide for eight orphans of tender years, while the other four older children, who already had married, were still in need of parental guidance...(she) made up her mind that when all the children were suitably  married, please God, and she no longer needed to worry about their  welfare, she would leave this erring world and go to the Holy Land in order to end her days in piety as was incumbent upon every Jewish woman.

Was this a tradition? I'm fascinated to learn about it. An eminent scholar describes Glückel as 'a German-Jewish Pepys. Another compares her with Madame de Sevigny. The family business was jewelry on the international market. I can't resist quoting this. In her own words:

'My husband was very energetic in business and I, too, helped. It is not to praise myself that I mention that he took advice from no one but me, and did nothing until we had talked it over together.'p42

What is it the French say? Vive la Femme!

I can't believe that it was Basha who spoke those words. Perhaps it was Hannah.


hongfan

  • Posts: 328
Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #524 on: July 28, 2017, 05:31:46 PM »
To me, I have passed the stage of search, I think I have got it - we live to serve others, to make others' lives better and through it making our lives better because all lives are connected (here lives meaning ALL including humans, animals, plants, and clouds, yes Bellamarie), and until all lives are happy, no single life will be TRULY happy.

So, the issue for me is no longer why, but how to live up to that. I shall be modest, but I am not; I shall be patience, but I am not;I shall be selfless, but I am not... The list is long and everywhere I turn to, there is a HUGE gap. But that is good, because I know what homework I need to do in this life, and for anything unfinished I will come back in another life to continue. And along the way, I meet wonderful people like all of you here, learn great stories like the ones in the book, "expand my frame" (hahahaa), and when this trip is up, I go back to share what I have seen and learned, and take a little break (maybe 500 years by earth time), and then take the next trip here again. I may see old friends and surely learn new things, and if I progress well in my homework, I get to complete the final trip at some point and go back to write the final trip report. Take a little break and go to another planet, maybe in this universe or maybe in another one. There are so many out there, ours is just a little piece of the whole, there will be always something new and something exciting waiting for me!

Isn't it a wonderful life?


bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #525 on: July 28, 2017, 07:28:47 PM »
Ginny, 
Quote
"What did "count" for these people in reviewing their accomplishments?" (page 266)  The partial  answer: "Above all, the rearing of children who were well-educated, well married,  good citizens, good parents in their own right, children who considered themselves Jews and raised their children as Jews, and who respected their elderly  parents...."   

Is this, do you  think, a universal feeling? It's certainly an accomplishment.

I do think this is a universal feeling.  We tend to not only look at our children as our successes, or maybe even failures, we tend to live through them, which makes it important to some parents, their children grow up in their faith/religion, so they can continue being a part of their religious lives.  I know for me and my hubby, we live to share our special religious holidays, and Sunday Masses with our sons and their families.  My daughter lives too far away to do so, but when they visit, even though she gave up Catholicism to share in her husband's faith, I still love sitting and talking with her and him about scripture and religion.  I am proud to sit at the dinner table at my son's home with his mother in law who is Jehovah Witness, and watch my youngest grandchild Zoey begin our blessing as we all join in and end with the sign of the cross.  We do this with the pure heart of not insulting or injuring Sandy the mother in law, but to show we love and practice our faith, the same as she is free to do her own.  She graciously sits quietly through our prayer, and many times she and I have had long personal chats, and she always expresses to me what a wonderful job my husband and I have done in raising our son to be the best husband, father and son in law.  She does not feel left out, if anything she feels a part of our family unit.  She comments on how she sees how much our grandchildren are such caring, loving souls.  When I sit at church with our family taking up an entire pew at our special times of year they all come back to Regina Coeli, I glance at us and look up and give all glory and praise to God for giving us this faith filled family.  In my eyes, and in my heart, as a parent and grandparent, I really don't care if my kids/grandkids earned trophies in sports, graduate with honors, run a corporation, have a mansion of a home, or have millions in a bank account......for me, if they follow their faith and love our Lord, which would mean they are kind, caring, giving, loving human beings who care for others, then I know we have accomplished our job as parents. 

So what about those who are not blessed to have children or grandchildren? 

I can only hope they have some children in their lives in some capacity, because in my belief, there is nothing more innocent and pure of heart as a child, and to never experience what a child can bring to your life be it biological, adopted, foster care, aunt, uncle, Godparent, extended family, or through friends, would be a loss I would never want anyone to ever miss out on. 

I got a text today from my Godson Patryk, who will be getting married in just a few weeks, he asked me if me and my hubby (his Godparents) would carry up the gifts of bread and wine, at his wedding.  If my memory serves me well, something happened a few years back that caused his parents to leave the Catholic church and begin with another church.  So, here I am, being asked to actually step in for his parents, which is what Godparents promise to do at the Baptism.  I am beyond honored and humbled to be asked, and to accept his request.  Once again, I am in awe of the greatness I experience in being a part of a generational faith.  I don't ask others to believe like me, to think like me, nor to follow my traditions, I just hope for everyone to get to feel the enormous force of love that God allows us to have with each other.  As I sign my Sunday Facebook posts....God is good, God is great.  All the time!

Yes, hongfan...... Life is wonderful!       
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #526 on: July 29, 2017, 12:08:38 PM »
WOW!  I just finished reading the last chapter and I seriously was blown away.  Myerhoff gave us so much information I sort of feel like I need a day or two to process it all.  I fully agree with her findings, as far as how she states women are taught throughout our lives to prepare us for aging, while men are at a disadvantage due to their roles in life outside the home working.  Women's nature to nurture is something we have, and use throughout all stages of our lives.  I do love how she points this out:

pg. 264  The nearest equivalent to male retirement is the mother's "empty nest" when the youngest child moves out.  But this phenomenon is always less abrupt and irreversible than a man's retirement from his job.  Her children need her less by small increments.  And even after they physically left the home, they may return for services, favors, meals, advice, baby-sitting, care of clothing, and the like.  Before and after the "empty nest" a woman has more time to adjust, to establish her independence and then accommodate to the changes.

This is so true!  As all three of my children moved out of the house, my daughter moved to Florida when she was twenty-one, my eldest son moved into an apartment with his buddies during his college years, and my youngest son moved out into an apartment with his then fiance and my granddaughter, they all still needed me at some capacity in their lives.  At one point they all found themselves needing to move back home for a short period of time, needing the comforts of me and their Dad, and their safe place to regroup, and be ready to go out and try again.  My three grown children constantly write in their cards to me how it was my love and support that got them to where they are today.  Certainly, their Dad played a huge part in us being able to help them out financially, but ultimately it was the nurturing that was the most vital, and what they are referring to.

This particular section gave me such pause and a bit of sadness. 

pg. 266   What did "count" then for these people, in reviewing their accomplishments?  Above all, the rearing of children who were well-educated, well-married, good citizens, good parents in their own right, children who considered themselves Jew and raised their children as Jews, and who respected their elder parents.  Here again, the old women had the deck stacked in their favor.  Nearly always they had maintained closer ties with their children than the men, and fairly or not, it was they who were considered most responsible for "how the children turned out."  The men had been outside of the home for so much of their time during the children's formative years, working to support the family while the women stayed home, that finally the woman was considered as the one to whom praise or blame went for the children.  Since few women regarded their children as total failures, they always gained more satisfaction than greif by considering their children the important accomplishment of their life.  It seemed that the men had got short shrift.  Their work had cost them the satisfaction of intimate relationships with friends and family, more often than not.  And in their old age, when some now sought these satisfactions, they often found it was too late.  Their children were strangers or resentful, and they didn't really know how to sustain intense friendships with their peers.

This reminds me of a conversation I recently had with my sister in law Char, and her husband Denny.  They have been married for over fifty years.  They have two grown married children and have four grandchildren.  The two of them were at an event watching the interactions of me, my hubby, our kids and grandkids throughout the night.  We began talking with them and they said they wish they had the kind of relationship with their kids and grandkids they could see we have.  They said they barely know their own grandkids who are now in college.  Denny and Char probably have a million dollars in their bank account, but in their emotional family account it seems empty.  My other brother in law and sister expressed the exact same words to me.  Bobby said he worked all his years accumulating that large bank account, now that he is retired and wealthy, he told me he would trade all his money in the world for a close relationship like we have with our kids and grandkids.  Both the sister in law, and my sister ,were not very nurturing mothers, they seemed to live more for the sake of their husbands rather than their children.  I know I have heard from women and even professionals, that some women just do not have the natural instinct to nurture children.  I could never really understand or believe that, since as a woman that is all I know is to nurture.  But, I can see now years later the cost you pay when you are retired and aging, and you did not take the time to form emotional bonds with your children and grandchildren.  These two couples I speak of sounded so terribly lonely, and it was heartbreaking for me and my hubby to stand and listen to them wishing for more family connection.  My brother in law told me what I have is far worth any amount of money in the world.  I agree.

pg.  266  Women are identified as responsible for the work of "nature" while "culture" it is said is officially the work of men.

Even though this is so, I do believe a male can find the time to engage in his children's lives.  My husband when not working would always be active in our children's lives, be it coaching their sports, teaching them to swim (which I did not learn to do), building model cars, playing games, sneaking out of work to go see their ball games, sit beside them in church every Sunday at Mass, and pray with them at dinnertime, bedtime and throughout our Lenten Season.  Men can and should take the time, and make the effort, to be in their children's lives, it is vital in today's society where the family unit is less and less.  Children need good role models, and it should come as their father, rather than a sports star, celebrity or teacher.  All of these are fine, but nothing can replace what a father can give to their child.  I know my hubby can look back, reminiscence, and take into his old age the fond memories of all the years he bonded and made a lasting loving relationship with our three children and six grandchildren.  What he has given them, and what he has received in return is priceless.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

hongfan

  • Posts: 328
Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #527 on: July 29, 2017, 07:21:06 PM »
The author's Biography from Jewish Women's Archive (https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/myerhoff-barbara)

BARBARAMYERHOFF
1935 – 1985
by Riv-Ellen Prell

Anthropologist Barbara Myerhoff looked at the camera in her documentary film Number Our Days and explained, “Someday I will be a little old Jewish lady.” Giving this as the reason for her study of elderly Jews, she helped to initiate a rethinking of anthropology. Locating herself within her scholarship, she declared that those who are like us—even part of us—are as worthy of study as those cultures thought of as “exotic.”

Barbara Gay Siegel Myerhoff was born on February 16, 1935, in Cleveland, Ohio. She was raised there and in Los Angeles by her mother, Florence Siegel, and her stepfather Norman Siegel. She married Lee Myerhoff in 1954 and divorced him in 1982. She had two sons, Nicholas (b. 1968), and Matthew (b. 1971). Always a gifted student and storyteller, she had an outstanding academic career. She received a Bachelor of Arts degree in sociology from the University of California at Los Angeles in 1958. At the University of Chicago, she received a master’s degree in human development in 1963. She returned to the University of California at Los Angeles to complete a doctorate in anthropology in 1968.

Myerhoff’s initial scholarship was devoted to the developing field of ritual and symbolic studies. Her dissertation and subsequent book, Peyote Hunt: the Sacred Journey of the Huichol Indians (1974), was a highly regarded work of scholarship for its treatment of pilgrimages and the religious life of a Mexican Indian group. Myerhoff was the first non-Huichol to participate in the sacred annual pilgrimage of the Huichol people, and she used the occasion to understand how rituals and symbols act to communicate the central meanings and memories of a people cut off from their homeland and forced to live within a dominant culture that was hostile to them. The book was nominated for a National Book Award in 1976.

Barbara Myerhoff explored these same themes in her innovative study of elderly Jews in Los Angeles. The work developed as part of a collaborative project on aging at the University of Southern California, where she taught in the department of anthropology for her entire professional career, from 1968 until her death in 1985. She had initially considered work with other ethnic groups, but decided to study Jews for her portion of the project. In 1971, in a period of increasing ethnic pride and militancy, she took seriously comments from leaders in communities of color who told her to “study your own.” Neither American Jews nor the elderly had received much attention from anthropologists, and the urban American setting was rarely their subject of study. Myerhoff took a major risk with her career to focus on a group so entirely overlooked by scholars.

Myerhoff’s study of elderly Jews who met at a senior center in Venice, California, demonstrated the ways in which rituals, both traditional and invented, gave the aged the visibility of which society and family had deprived them. Performances of all types—storytelling, rituals, even fights—provided a certainty of their place in social interaction that was reassuring and tenuous at the same time, since their ability to hold others’ attention could easily be lost. From these observations Myerhoff wrote eloquently and persuasively about the human need to be seen and the ways in which culture offers and withholds that visibility. Myerhoff found and wrote about the resilience, continuity, and innovations in seniors’ lives. In articles that appeared in Secular Ritual, edited by her and Sally Falk Moore, as well as in other journals and collections, she developed and illustrated these points.

In one of her first publications about the Jewish elderly, she noted that women at the senior center appeared to age with more ease than men. She viewed women whose lives had been devoted to nurturing and caretaking as better able to accept aging, and as more resourceful in finding ways to continue to nurture others through their social activism and mutual support. Women were able to maintain more continuity in their lives than men who were wrenched away from the public world of work.

Another of Myerhoff’s most important contributions was her pioneering work on “domestic Judaism” and “women’s religion.” Her study coincided with the early years of the contemporary women’s movement, and she was particularly interested in how women practiced Judaism, a patriarchal religion. She found among the seniors vibrant “domestic” religious practices. Immigrant Jewish women told her about their sense of responsibility to maintain observance in the family and their memories of learning about women’s religious duties from mothers and other female relatives. She was a pioneer in challenging the notion that religion can only or best be understood from an elite perspective, usually dominated by males. Rather, her work demonstrated a well-articulated religious system for women that ran parallel to men’s sacred worlds. These early insights have been used effectively by a variety of writers and scholars to understand religion from a woman’s perspective.

Prior to the publication of her book Number Our Days, Barbara Myerhoff made a documentary film about the Jewish seniors with filmmaker Lynn Littman. The film, also entitled Number Our Days, was awarded a 1977 Oscar for best short documentary film and two Emmys. Her book was deeply appreciated by both scholars and ordinary readers. It was chosen by both the New York Times and Psychology Today as among the ten best social science books of 1979. One of its chapters was awarded a Pushcart Prize for 1979, and she was selected as Woman of the Year by the Jewish War Veterans of America in 1980. The book was subsequently adapted as a play and produced by the Mark Taper Forum of Los Angeles in 1981.

Myerhoff’s interests in documentary and ethnographic film led her to develop a program in visual anthropology at the University of Southern California, where she chaired the department of anthropology from 1976 to 1980. She collaborated again with Lynn Littman on a second film, In Her Own Time, which documented her bout with cancer and the final weeks of her life, as she studied the Jewish community of the Fairfax district in Los Angeles. The film depicted her work with that community and how some of its members helped her to understand and deal with her final illness.

Barbara Myerhoff died on January 7, 1985. She never lived to become “an old Jewish woman,” as she imagined she would when she set out to understand what it meant to be aged and Jewish in American society. Not quite fifty years old, she left a remarkable intellectual and personal legacy in her prodigious writing and filmmaking. She reached a wide audience of readers and viewers because of her commitment to tell stories that could help men and women understand their own lives in light of what she saw in communities in “her own backyard,” as well as the far reaches of northern Mexico.

Barbara Myerhoff was part of a small group of scholars in the 1970s who introduced the importance of understanding storytelling, who pioneered the study of one’s own community, and who paid attention to the relationships among age, ethnic identity, and gender. She was particularly innovative in her scholarship on ritual, exploring how ritual functioned to create its effect, even when participants aided in its invention. Her ideas provided an important foundation for Jewish women to understand aspects of their own religious heritage and to experiment with ritual innovation while defining Jewish feminism.

In 2000, the Jewish Women’s Archive selected Barbara Myerhoff to be a Woman of Valor. In celebration of Jewish Women’s History Month, the organization created a poster about her life as well as website that may be seen at jwa.org.

SELECTED WORKS BY BARBARA MYERHOFF

“Bobbes and Zeydes: Old and New Roles for Elderly Jews.” In Women in Ritual and Symbolic Roles, edited by Judith Hoch-Smith and Anita Springs (1978); In Her Own Time, with Lynn Littman. Film (1984); Number Our Days, with Lynn Littman. Film (1977); Number Our Days (1979); Number Our Days (1981). Play produced by Mark Taper Forum, Los Angeles; Peyote Hunt: The Sacred Journey of the Huichol Indians (1974); Remembered Lives: The Work of Ritual, Storytelling, and Growing Older, edited by Mark Kaminsky (1992); “We Don’t Wrap Herring in a Printed Page: Fusions, Fiction and Continuity in Secular Ritual.” In Secular Ritual: Forms and Meanings, edited by Sally Falk Moore and Barbara Myerhoff (1977).

Bibliography
Kaminsky, Mark. Introduction to Remembered Lives: The Work of Ritual, Storytelling and Growing Older, by Barbara Myerhoff (1992); Kirshenblatt-Gimblett, Barbara. Foreword to Remembered Lives: The Work of Ritual, Storytelling, and Growing Older, by Barbara Myerhoff (1992); Prell, Riv-Ellen. “The Double Frame of Life History in the Work of Barbara Myerhoff.” In Interpreting Women’s Lives: Theory and Personal Narratives, edited by Personal Narratives Group (1989).

hongfan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #528 on: July 29, 2017, 07:37:57 PM »
Movie Review : 'Time' Offers Look Into Hasidic Life
December 07, 1985|SHEILA BENSON | Times Film Critic


What a truly special woman Barbara Myerhoff must have been. Almost every facet of her character shines through in Lynne Littman's "In Her Own Time": humor, strength, a questioning and nicely insubordinate nature, warmth, self-deprecation, an overwhelming interest in others and a lovely quick mind.

"In Her Own Time" is the second of two documentary investigations that the two women made together; the first was "Number Our Days," a succinct and deeply moving portrait of the elderly Jews in Venice, Calif., which won an Academy Award in 1977.

The films belong together, which is how they are now being shown (on five successive Sunday mornings, Sunday through Jan. 5 at the Music Hall, Beverly Hills), although with what we now know about the briefness of Myerhoff's life, "Number Our Days" achieves an extra measure of darkness. She had chosen the Jewish community of Venice to study with a true anthropologist's thoroughness because, as she said, being an old Jew was something possible to her. She would never be a South American Indian, she said, facing the camera almost jauntily, "but I will be old."

Cancer intervened. Myerhoff began a study of the Fairfax neighborhood's Orthodox Hasidic community knowing that she had lung cancer. Understandably, it tilted the shape of the film and her investigation. While bringing to light the strengths and values of Orthodoxy and what it holds for its members, she began to question what it might mean in her life as well.

Her interviews were with a cross section of Hasidic families: a young Soviet refusenik couple who had converted to Judaism and whose Orthodox remarriage here is celebrated with enormous joy; a wife and mother with teen-age children who chose to keep kosher, even at the risk of her own marriage; a firmly self-assured and beautiful young woman who explains politely, in answer to Myerhoff's questions about the possibility of straying in an Orthodox household, that "a religious woman does not make a mistake."

And all the while, Myerhoff is questioning her own beliefs--and changing. One woman describes the restrictions that Orthodoxy puts upon her almost rapturously because they gave her life order. Myerhoff knows she could not bear them for even a quarter of an hour.

Yet as the disease makes inroads on her strength, as she no longer strides into a modest backyard to speak to the family there but is carried up stairs or rolls along Fairfax Avenue in a wheelchair, she realizes that she is submitting to restrictions of her own. The organic life that Orthodoxy presents, "an envelope of belief which surrounds them," begins to seem more and more attractive.

And from the Fairfax residents comes an outreaching of love, concern and support for Myerhoff--an almost unmatched sense of spirituality and community that is terribly seductive. If at times it feels as though she were grasping at desperate measures, changing her name for another so that, in effect, the angel of death could not find her, who could argue against these measures at that point?

"I'll never be the same after doing this work," Myerhoff says simply, scant weeks before she died, and you feel a sense of calmness in her words. "In Her Own Time" creates the same sense of change, about the determined Myerhoff and about this abundantly giving community.

"IN HER OWN TIME"

Producers Vikram Jayanti, Lynne Littman. Director Littman, based on the fieldwork of Barbara Myerhoff in association with the USC department of anthropology.

Running time: 1 hour.

Times-rated: Family.

hongfan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #529 on: July 29, 2017, 11:50:44 PM »
Sorry for a little digression. There is a youtube also called "Quantum Enigma", not from the book I recommended, but I watched the 1st episode and seems quite good too (40min), it has a 2nd episode (50min). Links here if you are interested in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0dBY7BYVM0 - Quantum Enigma by Jeremy Veldman, Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O_m4Qf6ssU - Quantum Enigma by Jeremy Veldman, Part 2

The main messages:
- at Quantum level, matter behaviors one way when we observe it, and behaves another way when we don't
- an observer's decision at the present time changes the nature of the matter in the past time

bellamarie

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #530 on: July 30, 2017, 08:39:03 AM »
hongfan, Thank you for all the info on Myerhoff.  I tried to go to the link to watch In Her Own Time but it seems you have to sign up into some sort of site and not sure if it's free so I clicked out.  It seems so sad to know Myerhoff died at such a young age.  I wonder if either of her two sons will become writers, it appears from what she says to Hannah in the last pages her son Matthew seemed a bit interested.  Wow how impressive Number Our Days movie won an Academy Award for short stories!   
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #531 on: July 30, 2017, 03:10:11 PM »
Oh my hongfan - thank you - my mind is doing loops as I am watching this and thinking of our mind as microscopic energy that like the double slit or, the experiment he shows with balls on water creating waves - oh oh oh how the use of our mind is a consciousness that are specks of energy sending out waves - it is like the make up of our mind keeps it from running away with itself - no wonder we are set for creativity - I just need to read tons and will enjoy every minute of this discovery - thank you for all you have shared.

I am confused though I thought light was faster than any mechanical ability to how can a screen be dropped, even using our eyes, fast enough to accommodate the time the light leaves the double split to the screen - Good grief now 'thought experiments' - not now, need to get things done.

I sure wish I could devote more time but as the book, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance says, Two minds fighting for the same body, a condition that inspired the original meaning of "schizophrenia" These two minds have different values as to what is important in life. Maybe I, schizo and do not know it because since a kid I've a constant fight of responsible maintenance for my life and the life of others versus, exploring the questions that pop up in my mind that exploring only opens more questions - sheesh...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #532 on: July 30, 2017, 03:24:04 PM »
hmm just has a thought I wonder if when we are sleeping if our mind is operating as not being watched and therefore thoughts are in waves as opposed to awake time when photons are behaving as particles in a path that is effected by our learning knowledge. I wonder then if our learned behavior is the natural order when we are awake and the folks in the Center have a different learned behavior they carry with them from their childhood so that finding like minded folks would have been difficult and would explain why their children are not like minded.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

ginny

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #533 on: July 31, 2017, 10:42:40 AM »
Wow, LOOK at all these fantastic thoughts! I'm back from an in laws reunion/ cum MIL 97th birthday party out of state,  and it will probably take a minute or two to focus  (they had no internet and I could not get more than a one star connection which kept shutting down) so I'll be back later today. (I had originally said where I was going in this discussion,  but changed my note to storms when it hit me that saying that,  as I originally did,  on a public site was not smart).

Tomorrow we're going to do the last of the book, the short  Epilogue and Afterword, where she ties up all the ends.  Can't wait to hear what you think about it!

hongfan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #534 on: July 31, 2017, 12:21:57 PM »
Barbara, I haven't looked into setup details of the Wheeler's delayed choice experiment (there are a lot on the web though), I assume they would make sure the screen's manipulation is fast enough to make this experiment possible (and whether there is a real screen or not is also interesting to know). But regarding the speed of light,  I think the noting that nothing is faster than light would be challenged. The Entangled Photons is a fascinating phenomenon, it implies, if I understand right, there are something that has to be traveling faster than light or information can be somehow communicated between two photos in a way we don't understand yet.

Although we don't know what is behind the phenomenon of Entangled Photons, research on using it for the future Quantum Computers have been well underway. This phenomenon could not be proven by experimental physics before Einstein died (he didn't think it possible) but since then it has been proven with ever increasing distance between the entangled photons.

China did an experiment on this about a month ago and extended the distance between the two photons to 1,500 miles away and found they still maintain perfect entanglement - change in one triggers same change in the other with no time - in true sense with no time (they built a special satellite to beam the photons to two stations in China for this experiment), this is the longest distance so far, but I can imagine this new record will be updated soon. With all the concerns of cyber security issues, Quantum Computers have become ever more attracting because since nothing is being sent between the two (at least to our feeble mind right now), there is nothing to hack with. I am sure things will not be this simple, we are playing things that we have NO CLUE why they are happening!

And, now you think about TELEPATHY!

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-entangled-photons-china-20170615-htmlstory.html

hongfan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #535 on: July 31, 2017, 12:40:09 PM »
The reason I went to look for Myerhoff's biography is that I was thinking to myself, what is a possible bias that her own experience might have brought into her research here. I was asking if SHE herself a second generation - in the same category of the Center People's children? She mentioned her grandma in her book but never her parents, did she? I don't recollect that. And when at times she was critical (even harsh) on the Center People - for instance, in the Apple Incident, she said - no wonder that their children don't want to come to see them (something like that), did that actually reflect her own personal experience? Ginny or someone said before that she might use Shmuel to voice out some of her criticism on the Center People, and maybe that is why she gave Shmuel such a special place in the book - a mouth piece for her own "bias"?

I guess it would be interesting to know her parents' life stories and her relationship with them, but I couldn't find. And I thought the mention that at her last days, she was attracted to (and one article said she actually converted to) the Orthodox Judaism is interesting, seems from Number Our Days to In Her Own Time, she has traversed some profound personal changes.

bellamarie

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #536 on: July 31, 2017, 12:41:38 PM »
Well, here we are embarking on our last week with the Center people, and our author, Myerhoff.  I wonder if she felt the same as I do, as she knew her time was coming to an end with her studies at the Center.  I can surly see how she, like myself was attached to Shmuel.  After reading the AFTERWORD, it was so clear how much Shmuel meant to our author and his work was recognized by others.:

pg.  275  Between Rosh Hashana  and Yom Kipper I arranged to present Shmuel's widow, Rebekah with "The Pushcart Prize,"  an award that had been give to a selection of her husband's writing.  The essay was published in an anthology and came with a stipend of $100.  I wanted Rebekah, and Shmuel, to receive the honor in some public manner, among their own people.  I knew this was somewhat risky in view of Shmuel's controversial politics, but ultimately worth it, it seemed to me. 

My presentation was incorporated into the Oneg Shabbat which was particularly well-attended because of the holiday.  Apples and honey were served.  The mood of reconciliation called for by the season suggested itself as people greeted one another, Shanah tovah tikkatevu..."May you be inscribed in the Book for a sweet year."  Still, Rebehah was nervous ans so was I.  I then mentioned Shumel's name.  Several people grumbled audibly.  One woman actually left the hall and others made gestures or sounds of disgust.  Rebekah stood beside me trembling but maintained her poise.  Over the din I began loudly to read from a letter of congratulations to Rebekah written by Professor Ronald Sharp, one of the editors who had nominated Shmuel's piece for the prize.  "Shmuel articulated a sensibility and a sense of the world that illuminated my own life...His brave dignity, hi piercing and wide-ranging intellect were refined, not diluted by his tenderness and deep sense of fragility...I think of Shmuel as one of the greatest characters I have encountered in my lifetime of reading.  He stands, for me, with the great heroes.  You and Shmuel gave Barbara the highest gift one can give...In her book she kept the gift moving, as all true gifts must be.  The gift still moves.  It has been passed to  me and I have passed it on to many others.  You and Shmuel have a continuing life that, for all of us, is pure gift.  Thank you."

The hall was suddenly still, Rebekah took the letter, the book, the money and suddenly stepped up to the microphone.  "I wanted to read in Jewish for you from Shmuel's poems."  she said.  "But I  no longer read aloud since my accident."  She pointed to her mouth.  On April Fool's Day, Rebekah had been running to catch a bus.  Two boys stretched a rope across the sidewalk before her.  The fall had knocked o ut allthe upper teeth in half her mouth.  "So I will say only this,"  she continued.  "It is a good thing for a person to get this attention because othewise you could come to doubt that you see things the way they really are.  All my life with Shmuel I enjoyed immensely his outlook and his mind and learning.  He was my teacher,  by best friend and my lover.  "  My beloved is gone down into this garden, to the bedso f spices, to feed in the gardens, and to gather lilies.  He is altogether lovely.  This is my beloved and this is my friend, O Daughters of Jerusalem."

In the complete silence that lasted until Rebekah sat down, some women could be heard weeping.  A couple of women walked across the hall to embrace Rebekah.  The moment was so tender as to unfamiliar in this place.  Truly these were Days of Turning.


I like how Myerhoff gave acknowledgement to "all" the people in the Center:

pg. 277  "It is your prize.  I am here today to give it to you.  It's you words and your experiences.  You__all of you__earned it and you deserve it, so I want to congratulate you all."

In Myerhoff's last invented conversation I think she has given herself permission to create and fictionalize parts of this story:

pg.  278  And what if some of it is wish and fantasy?  Remember the Baal Shem Tov story Moshe told_if thre is only the recollection that there was once a prayer, a fire, a place in the forest_if that story is told, it is sufficient.  Their world, yours too, does not have an end, Shmuel."  "All right, on this I wouldn't argue.  It keeps alive, good.  But still it doesn't hurt anybody to try to make the prayer correct in the first place."

I'm not so sure Shmuel would have given into her, but when you are the creator of your words, you can decide which words you will use to bring closure to your story.

Ooops,  sorry Ginny we were posting at the same time.  Welcome home!  WOW! a 97th Birthday party.  God bless your mil.  Sorry, I guess I sort of jumped the gun today with this post..... just pretend it's tomorrow!! 

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #537 on: July 31, 2017, 12:56:08 PM »
hongfan,  It seems you and I were posting at the same time as well.

Quote
And when at times she was critical (even harsh) on the Center People - for instance, in the Apple Incident, she said - no wonder that their children don't want to come to see them (something like that), did that actually reflect her own personal experience? Ginny or someone said before that she might use Shmuel to voice out some of her criticism on the Center People, and maybe that is why she gave Shmuel such a special place in the book - a mouth piece for her own "bias"?

Yes, I do believe Myerhoff did indeed use Shmuel as a mouth piece for her own bias.  Without her fictionalized conversations, how else could she have interjected her own thoughts, feelings and bias?  So, what say you all, does it alter the truth of the book?  Does it change the book to more of a fiction/anthology, if that is even possible?  I called foul on her early on, I would have liked her NOT injecting herself into the book.  As much as I loved seeing Myerhoff in the movie, and how she interacted with all the Center people, it still does not sit well with me that she fictionalized parts of the study.  In saying this.... I can see how she felt it necessary to keep Shmuel alive throughout the book to be able to get to the ending of his works being given such accolades.  If, Myerhoff would not have made up the conversations throughout the story keeping Shmuel alive, would he have stood out to us as much?  Would we have sort of thought about his wise words in the beginning, but eventually focused more on someone else as the wise person in the Center?  Just a lot of questions are floating through my mind, knowing she crossed the boundaries of an anthropologist when she brought in the fictional parts of the story.  Would like to hear what you all think.....
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

ginny

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #538 on: July 31, 2017, 01:10:13 PM »
Gosh this book really has a hold on me, and I've just spent a weekend pretty much with different Center folks, so I'm really feeling my age this morning, which is, compared to those I've just been around, YOUTHFUL.  :)

Honestly, you all have said what you said so well, there's not much left for me to do but say wow, that was great, and I am truly enriched by what you've said here.

Jonathan, I am so sorry you can't view the film, you're the one who mentioned it first, it's really something.

Thank you also Hongfan for the info on her other films and also her Obituary. Not even 50.  She did a LOT for not even being 50 when she died.

Just a few thoughts: loved all the perceptions and points of view here. Like I said, all I can say is that's really great.


In Chinese culture, filial piety is the foundation of all virtues
It was to the Romans, too, that's another ancient idea.  Not sure that idea has survived anywhere, in 2017. I will note that the Italians are very supportive and considerate of the elderly. I mean to surprising degrees. For instance I went to an archaeological site while in Rome, this year, it was a day trip.  The ground and paving stones were ancient and very difficult to walk on, a real balancing act;  they were irregular stones, a paradise for breaking your leg.  So I took a walking stick and  on the way back,  I stopped for a  Diet Coke  and an ice cream in the McDonald's in the train  station (yes I actually did, in the Land of the Best Gelato in the World, but I had one of those too, on the walk to the hotel) and I planned to sit there a minute and look at the exposed Roman walls while I had a break...but the lines to the counter  were unbelievable, 10 deep at every register, people in a hurry, anxious to get their trains, it was a crowded impatient mess....You will never guess what happened.  The (absolutely gorgeous) young woman who took the order, spotting the stick and the tray and the drink, left her cash register, came around the front, through the crowds, took the tray (over my protests (no no, I can do it, thank you SO much but I can manage) and escorted me to a seat and even pulled out the chair. Can you believe that?

Will you show me another country where that would happen?  That happens to me in Italy ALL the time. Made my week. Maybe year. They have a lovely respect for the elderly.  And I passed it on in another way to another person. We'd all be a better world if we stopped behaving like "The Mooch," or a mobster and treated each other with kindness.

anyway....


What really struck me watching the video is how wealthy all these people appear. 
 

Now I thought the opposite. My first thought for some reason was it was disrespectful to show them like that out on the sidewalk, with their head scarves, etc.,   but I was wrong. It was the opposite. I do spend a lot of time in elder communities, who apparently are themselves very well off.    I think the Center folks were dressed up for the film and looking their best: how dear that is. Very moving.  I was surprised how old they looked, then the voice over said they were all in their 80's  and 90's!  I should look so good now.  I think it's one of the strengths of the book that the reader can identify so well with them, I sure did.

My friend Sandy is moving into her elderly apartment today.


How is she getting on now?

Yesterday my two grandkids Zak & Zoey (her grandkids as well) went with her to her apartment yesterday, they met so many of the elderly people living there.  Zak shared a sad moment with me, he said,  "Nonni, yesterday when we went with Nene to see her apartment she was a little upset because it took the people two weeks to fix her air conditioning, and there is a stain on the carpet she does not like to see, so while we were sitting in their big room she started crying, and all the older people came up to  her and was hugging her, and being really nice to her."

That  is one of the best reasons for Senior Communities: you are not alone and they let you know it, and there is always  somebody there who has been through more than you have and  knows where you're coming from.  Perhaps that is more comforting than sitting alone and crying.

g. 264  The nearest equivalent to male retirement is the mother's "empty nest" when the youngest child moves out.  But this phenomenon is always less abrupt and irreversible than a man's retirement from his job.  Her children need her less by small increments.  And even after they physically left the home, they may return for services, favors, meals, advice, baby-sitting, care of clothing, and the like.  Before and after the "empty nest" a woman has more time to adjust, to establish her independence and then accommodate to the changes.

I never thought of it that way, the abruptness of the break in retirement for a man. But it makes sense.  I don't consider men weak, myself.  I know my husband will do things here on the farm that I could never bring myself to do, when necessary.

Bellamarie, I am so happy for your being asked by  your Godson to participate in his wedding. I  know you are over the moon, what an honor. :)
 
So what about those who are not blessed to have children or grandchildren?

I think each person  has a purpose and if one's purpose did not include being part of a big family for whatever reason then perhaps his purpose is to be found elsewhere. After all, priests and monks and nuns normally do not have children or grandchildren.  I think each man stands valuable, even if alone.

This was lovely, hongfan:

And along the way, I meet wonderful people like all of you here, learn great stories like the ones in the book, "expand my frame" (hahahaa), and when this trip is up, I go back to share what I have seen and learned, and take a little break (maybe 500 years by earth time), and then take the next trip here again.

I feel pretty enriched, myself, by the book.

People need to communicate, and interact with others to give life a purposeful meaning.  The Center people did indeed look forward to their visit to the Center.  I see them becoming one big family, feuds in all. 

It's nice that in our day and time  the "family" can be seen to be so inclusive. When most of us were children, perhaps that was not as common. I think it's long overdue. A sign of progress.


So! I hate to see the Center end and the inevitable coda, but tomorrow we'll take up the last words. What a super experience you ALL have made it!



so P bubble

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #539 on: July 31, 2017, 02:25:08 PM »
So what about those who are not blessed to have children or grandchildren?

On a personal note again.
My great aunt- the sister of my grandfather never married.  As a child she did like all the girls of that generation, she prepared her nedunia, or her trousseau for the day she would have her own family.  For hours she would sew. embroider table cloth with matching napkins, sheets with matching pillow cases.  All this stored in a huge bahul  or wooden ornate crate. She was of a rather sour disposition and the two proposals she received were turned down as not good enough for her. So when her brother married, as of a natural way, she went to live with him and the new bride. My grandmother never had a day to herself with her husband.  The great aunt took over the household, giving directions, deciding on every meal, even the way the 9 children should be raised.  My grandfather, though he loved his wife, would let her have her way with the excuse: poor sister never married, never experienced the joy of her own family.

When I got married, she was already in her 80s, she decided to part with some of her trousseau and gave me sheets and bed covers.  But modern furniture is of totally different size... plus those heavy linen sheets were not practical at all especially when needing ironing.

It was hard to pity her when she was all the time complaining and ordering us to pay attention to her. 
I can understand the children or grand children  wanting to keep their distance - as in the book.

I did not see the resident of the Center as "old people", but as being their age.  They were so true to themselves, not shy of the filming.  It is the author who looked to me to be too young for the task she had embarked upon! 
I am so happy we had a chance to see how well she was accepted in the Center and how affectionate she was with the elderly.  I had tears in my eyes.

Ginny I loved your experience in Italy.  Yes Italians have more respect for the aged, more than many other countries.  It is very rare here to see that aspect.  The Russian immigrants and the Ethiopians were that considerate when they first arrived;  unfortunately they soon learned to behave like the Israelis.

hongfan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #540 on: July 31, 2017, 02:41:36 PM »
https://jwa.org/womenofvalor/Myerhoff

Quite a wealth of information on Myerhoff, even some of the recordings and pictures that she took with Center People, also a 1.5min video of her talking about her illness and why she is attracted to Orthodox Judaism...

ginny

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #541 on: July 31, 2017, 07:28:49 PM »
 Bubble, that's something of a tragic story, isn't it? And it's from a time that women normally did not make careers, too. Today people are not marrying as  young as they used to do and some are not marrying at all, and having careers, both men and women.

I'm glad you enjoyed the Italian story :)

Hongfan, that IS a wonderful site. Thank you for putting it  here. I wish they had identified who the Center  people are. For instance is that Shmuel and Rachel standing with Myerhoff?

ginny

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #542 on: July 31, 2017, 08:36:16 PM »
Epilogue and Afterword:


This last section lives up to the rest of the book, doesn't it? The Epilogue and the Afterword are full of quotable quotes and ideas, you could do a month on them.

Let's start with stories and story telling.

I think it's important to quote her entirely here:

(page 271). Then if it is remembered, if the stories are still told and retold, does everything change?  Is it made bearable? This was suggested in so many ways throughout this work-- in the bobbe myseh, the grandmothers's stories, the hearth tales that are the application of domestic religion,  and with the wonder rabbis "who knew how to bring Torah to light with a story that went into your ordinary life." It is reechoed in the Holocaust survivors' fierce determination to "bear witness," to return from hell and tell what they had seen. It barely mattered if there were someone listening....

If none listen, nevertheless, the tale is told aloud to oneself, to prove that there is existence, to tame the chaos of the world, to give meaning. The tale certifies the act of being and gives sense at the same time.  Perhaps these are the same, because people everywhere have always needed to narrate their lives and worlds, as surely as they have needed food, love, sex, and safety.


It's interesting when you read a book how many other things suddenly seem to refer to the concepts in it. I'm reading All Fall Down, a modern tale of manners if you will and it begins with this quote from Nora Ephron in Heartbreak:

Vera said, "Why do you feel you have to turn everything into a story?"  So I told her why

Because if I tell the story I control the version.
Because if I tell the story I can make you laugh, and I would rather have you laugh than feel sorry for me.'
Because if I tell the story it doesn't hurt as much.
Because if I tell the story I can get on with it.


The word "profound" is really overused today. But I am hard pressed to think of a more profound book that I've read in the last few years. I absolutely loved it, and the experience.

So let me put in some of the concepts this last two bits take up and see what you think of any or all of them.


1. Storytelling: do you agree with its importance? What part did it play in your life today? Have you narrated your own story to anybody, children, grandchildren, etc? Maybe this is a call to action. Have you ever looked at an old photo of somebody in your family and had no idea who it was and wished there were somebody alive you could ask? Maybe this is a wake up call for all of us. What role does story telling play in your own life?

2. Page 269, After a stroke, Olga "crossed over" and moved to a convalescent hospital.

What does this mean?

3. "Hershel was a broken man."  The interaction between elders and young people, whether of their own families, where you would least expect it, or in the public where it is clear that some young people in Venice, CA, were particularly uncaring, came as a surprise to me. Have you ever heard of something like Hershel's situation? Could he have misunderstood attempts to care for him, or is this a common story?

What about the SOS and the behavior of the thugs  on the boardwalk?  Wasn't the elder's own SOS a hoot? What courage that must have taken.

4. On page 274 some of the many effects of the publication of the book and the movie on the Center are talked about, marvelous! It seems the book and movie itself gave the Center and the folks a real shot in the arm, made them celebrities and best of all, brought their children around again. What would have happened, do you think, to the Center if the study and book had never been done?

5. in the Afterword Shmuel has the last word, and Jacob's 5 birthday parties are not needed, but you know what? Jacob tried and he gets points for that, in my opinion, even if it were to celebrate his own birthday.  I still sense a little ambivalence of the author here about Jacob.

In this chapter we have another imaginary conversation with Shmuel, and the author's loyal attempt to give Shmuel some attention, too, in all the happy times and celebrations. I think he deserves that much.

Were you surprised by the reaction of the Center people to the author's including him in the celebrations? Why do you think they felt that way initially?  What WAS it about him?

Then the author,  by quoiting Professor Ronald Sharp, one of the editors who had nominated him for the literary prize, turned everything around:  "his brave dignity, his piercing and wide ranging intellect were refined, not diluted by his tender and deep ranging sense of fragility....I think of Shmuel as one of the greatest characters I have encountered in a lifetime of reading. He stands, for me, with the great heroes."

To  have one of your  own called one of the great heroes is a pretty powerful thing. Here was a man who did not have Jacob's accomplishments but who triumphed in the end. I have to say I teared up a bit over this section and especially about poor Rachel's  horrific accident and her words following Myerhoff's speech above.  In this section the word "Triumph"  which is in the heading really comes to light, and it's BECAUSE Myerhoff wrote this book.

Had she not, none of us would ever have known any of these folks, would we?

 What's your greatest regret, now that the book is over?

But she's not through. What did you think of this?

6. Page 279:

"Young people in our society no longer spend time with old people and consequently grow up thinking that they will never grow old.  They come to think that being old is terrible so they avoid the elderly. Then the old become invisible, and though you may look at them you don't really see them. They come to feel worthless in their own eyes, and feel their lives have no meaning since no one cares for them.  What a pity we can't be drawn closer together and learn what we have to give each other."

Is this a true statement?  As there will be more elders in 2020 than  young people, and as more and more facilities and venues which cater to elders continue to develop, do you see this gap widening?  Is there a solution?

7. Did you notice, on  page 295, there is a footnote on the Afterword: In Jewish thought, death is irrevocable, and human life runs an inexorably linear course. But through divine mercy an individual or a community may return to a time in the past.  "Sins can be absolved by God, and man can be reinstated in his unfallen state. On a collective level, God can turn back the wheels of time, erase the present era, and initiate the rebirth of the ideal era if biblical history.  These two notions of time are reconciled by Yom Kippur."   This is Schlomo Deshen's interpretation, "The Kol Nidre Enigma: An Anthropological View of the Day of Atonement in Ethnology, April 21, 1979."

Have you ever heard of this theory? What branch of Judaism is it? Is it thought today?

8. And finally, whose story in these two last summations stood out the most for you?

9. What will you take away from this book?

ginny

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #543 on: July 31, 2017, 08:51:42 PM »
 Bellamarie, and hongfan, we were all posting together there. More tomorrow!  :)

hongfan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #544 on: July 31, 2017, 10:47:26 PM »
https://sohe.wisc.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2001-McKee-Barber-Platos-theory-of-aging_J-AGING-AND-IDENTITY.pdf

"Plato's Theory on Aging" - I found this article provides a modern gerontology platform that helped me to understand some of the author's major efforts and attempts in the book. I tend to think those theories were already existed in her time and that were the theoretic lenses through which she was observing the Center people. Or if those theories were not there in her time, then she really had made significant contributions to the field or likely have influenced the formation of these theories?

Three theories (Continuity, The Life Review, The Nature of Wisdom) in modern gerontology was mentioned in the article, with which we can immediately relate to the life story of Jacob, the childhood story from Shmuel, and the question we haven't got a good handle on  - number our days so we may get a hearty of wisdom - the article said, from Plato, you can derive that philosophical maturity cannot be achieved before fifty, so maybe number our days means we shall count the days a person has lived and only listen to someone 50 and older? hahahaa!

At any rate, this article provided me a theoretical framework to understand the themes of the book, and I hope you find it useful too.

hongfan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #545 on: July 31, 2017, 11:16:41 PM »
As we are getting to the end of the book and reflecting upon it, would you like some music in the background :)

Here is a beautiful piece by Korean pianist Yiruma:

River Flows in You, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7maJOI3QMu0

He has another piece I like it very much, but could be a bit too sentimental for this moment:

Kiss the Rain, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imGaOIm5HOk

bellamarie

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #546 on: August 01, 2017, 09:44:24 AM »
hongfan,  Interesting article.  Thank you for the beautiful pieces of music.

Quote
from Plato, you can derive that philosophical maturity cannot be achieved before fifty, so maybe number our days means we shall count the days a person has lived and only listen to someone 50 and?

Hmmm..... I don't think I can agree with Plato, or the thought of not listening to anyone under fifty.  Our author was only forty when she wrote this book,  I think she was wise beyond her years.  I wonder how old Plato was when he wrote his first works.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #547 on: August 01, 2017, 10:12:44 AM »
Ginny,  5. in the Afterword Shmuel has the last word, and Jacob's 5 birthday parties are not needed, but you know what? Jacob tried and he gets points for that, in my opinion, even if it were to celebrate his own birthday.  I still sense a little ambivalence of the author here about Jacob.

Yes, I do believe Myerhoff was not going to allow Jacob to overshadow Shmuel.  She ends her book with Shmuel's award, and last conversations she created with him.  I would love to read the piece that was submitted that earned the award.  It seems Myerhoff had so much more material from Shmuel, and probably others, that did not make the book.  It would have been nice if she would have included Shmuel's piece, rather than make up a conversation of herself and him.  I wonder if we could research and find that piece submitted, although she changed the names of the people at the Center there would have to be something that could lead us to this piece that received such high honors as this:

Professor Ronald Sharp, one of the editors who had nominated him for the literary prize, turned everything around:  "his brave dignity, his piercing and wide ranging intellect were refined, not diluted by his tender and deep ranging sense of fragility....I think of Shmuel as one of the greatest characters I have encountered in a lifetime of reading. He stands, for me, with the great heroes."

For me I could sense the wisdom of Shmuel in the very first pages of the book, which drew me to like him.  What annoys me just a tad, Shmuel dies early on in the book, so anything after his death that the author fictionalizes, due to her attachment to him, leaves me wondering if I would have been as drawn to him throughout the book, had it not been for Myerhoff's personal feelings and words.  I'm certain I would, but oh how I would love to read what Professor Sharp submitted.  Is anyone up for the challenge to find it?   I know we have some pretty good snoops in here. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

ginny

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #548 on: August 01, 2017, 11:13:59 AM »
I can help with that, Bellamarie. It's excerpts from the actual book,  and these are listed on page 295 in footnote 2.   


I have some errands to run this morning but will be black shortly after lunch.   :)

hongfan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #549 on: August 01, 2017, 11:14:44 AM »
As we had commented, lamented, complained about the fading of filial piety and respect for elders in the modern societies, have you heard that Plato had commented this in his Republic and characterized this social phenomenon as the inevitability of a democratic society? Do you see this change of social attitude occurs when a modern nation adopts a democratic system?

Here is what in the Republic:
(In a democratic city):

"the father accustoms himself to become like his child and fears his sons, while the son likens himself to his father, and feels neither shame nor fear in front of his parents, so he may be free ; the metic [563a] becomes the equal of a citizen and the citizen of a metic, and similarly with the foreigner.

"the teacher, in such a case, fears his pupils and fawns upon them, while pupils have in low esteem their teachers as well as their overseers; and, overall, the young copy the elders and contend hotly with them in words and in deeds, while the elders, lowering themselves to the level of the young, sate themselves with pleasantries [563b] and wit, mimicking the young in order not to look unpleasant and despotic"


For more details: http://plato-dialogues.org/faq/faq003.htm

so P bubble

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #550 on: August 01, 2017, 12:33:35 PM »
hongfan, nothing new under the sun.

bellamarie. yes Shmuel is the most interesting of them all, and after him Basha.  But they all have their personalities of course.  It would have been interesting to see more of their life and know what happened to them afterward.

Having a glimpse in others' life is always so tantalizing!

bellamarie

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #551 on: August 01, 2017, 01:39:03 PM »
Ginny,  Thank you, good find I had not read that far in the Notes. I thought maybe Myerhoff had more than just what was in this book. 

pg.  295  2. Professor Ronald Sharp and Federick Turner, co-editors of The Kenyon Review excerpted and published parts of Chapter Two, this volume ("Needle and Thread: The Life and Death of a Tailor," retitled as "A Renewal of the Word,"  (Volume 1, numner 1, new series, Winter, 1979).  They nominated the essay for inclusion in a collection gathered by Bill Henderson, representing the best of the year's publications in small presses and literary magazines.  The piece subsequently received the prize for "Best Non-Fiction" in the Pushcart Anthology IV, 1978, Pushcart Press.  This award carried a cash prize of $100 donated by the Lamport Foundation.

So, if I want to read the actual submission, I would have to go on a search for this particular publication, of the Pushcart Anthology IV, 1978, Pushcart Press.  Interesting title they gave it,  "A Renewal of the Word"

Bubble, I agree Basha was also a very interesting, captivating person in the story.  I fell in love with her and could picture her as my grandmother.

hongfan,  Plato quote:  "the father accustoms himself to become like his child and fears his sons, while the son likens himself to his father, and feels neither shame nor fear in front of his parents, so he may be free

I'm not so sure I agree with Plato, and if he and I would have seen eye to eye on this thinking.  I see this statement more in the reverse......but then what do I know?
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #552 on: August 01, 2017, 03:54:56 PM »
I wonder if we could read Shmuel's piece in this book and find out his actual name?

https://www.amazon.com/Pushcart-Prize-IV-Presses-1979-1980/dp/0916366065

Bubble,  Having a glimpse in others' life is always so tantalizing!
 
I have become hooked on reality tv shows, because I find other people's lives so fascinating.  Or maybe I have just become that nosy neighbor so to speak.   :o :o
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

ginny

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #553 on: August 01, 2017, 04:40:11 PM »
I don't know, I expect it's possible.

In this article https://books.google.com/books?id=bREOn1ho_hEC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=Shmuel++Goldman+Number+our++Days+real+name&source=bl&ots=iN35ck2-UX&sig=cIlrMp-dJ_l9TSuvGSIrHzw9rYM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiI-pWG7rbVAhUFbSYKHb-WCHYQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=Shmuel Goldman Number our Days real name&f=false she refers to Shmuel Goldman, and that Rebekah never used her real last name but identified herself as his wife.

Later in the article she says Moishe Sacks was her chief informant and that most of what she wrote was about him.   That might be his real name?
 
But somewhere in this article (it's one of those google reads things and I can barely make it out or focus on it at all, I think she says that she used his speech after the movie or when the movie came out, so I don't know, that link above shows all I know about it.

I'm glad to be back, when I went out I let it do a  "Restore" thing and it would NOT connect to this website and there was a strange search bar on the desktop and my own bookmarks were gone. The joy of the Internet!

This is very interesting, hongfan:
Three theories (Continuity, The Life Review, The Nature of Wisdom) in modern gerontology was mentioned in the article, with which we can immediately relate to the life story of Jacob, the childhood story from Shmuel, and the question we haven't got a good handle on  - number our days so we may get a hearty of wisdom...and it makes sense that she is following this pattern, but I never would have seen it.

Bellamarie, yes I have a feeling that Shmuel's death was a terrible shock to her, and probably caused her to feel her narrative and the whole book would have to be altered.  I think what she did was a way to include him but I also wish she had said I think  S would have said....

I can see her feeling SO bad he was not there to share in the glory of the movie and the book and the award, and I can see her thinking well I'll establish his credentials and acknowledge his contribution to the book and the movie  ONE more time. I can see that.

What I really can't understand is the reaction of bringing him up by the Center people.  I am really puzzled over the animosity.  Perhaps something went on that we don't know about? Because I don't see anything in what she's written which would cause such a reaction, do any of  you?

hongfan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #554 on: August 01, 2017, 04:58:48 PM »
There is an article written by Myerhoff's friend and colleague, commenting on her approach in the Number of Days and more details on her last film In Her Own Time. It seems her "interpretative" approach was one of her contributions to the field. And the article also mentioned that she grew up without knowing who is her father, and that in her life, Myerhoff was attracted to father figures. So this might play into her relationship with Shmuel.

Look for Page 207 - 224 by Gelya Frank,
https://books.google.com/books?id=9R67z2G2kvMC&pg=PA229&lpg=PA229&dq=shmuel+goldman&source=bl&ots=BXno8ThPFu&sig=CaecXTyRMRYgqe5UQlkwvnlV-JM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAraXG57bVAhXk24MKHZcfDXoQ6AEIXDAO#v=onepage&q=shmuel%20goldman&f=false

ginny

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #555 on: August 01, 2017, 05:00:52 PM »
Barbara, what a meaningful post:

I remember asking that question of many adults when I was a kid and here I am at age 84 still asking what is the meaning of life and what is the reason for my life since, few of my imagined ideas about life ever came to be a reality - What have I learned, in what do I believe and why me... other's die early including my eldest son - some die spiritually, some never develop, some are killed because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time - so why am I around, is it for a purpose or the luck of the draw - do I owe my life to anything - lots of philosophical answers - some nab it and others just add to the pie in the sky - so what is it all about. With that I would suggest to anyone who questions what or why - our life is about our individual search for the meaning of life and how we live our life is the only thing we can do anything about.


I am so  sorry for the loss of  your son.   Should we ever give up that search, do you think?

One thing that often surprises me is the people who say well I'm over 60 now and there's nothing else to learn. I am not sure how anybody can say that with a straight face.  But apparently there are those who feel it.

  Not only do I learn new things every day (which shows me how little I apparently knew in the first place) but it's astounding how much there IS left TO learn!

Looks like I've made a double post, too, honestly, I'll fix that!  Apparently the system here is not yet fixed. I have read everybody's thoughtful posts, and they really are wonderful.

What do you all think about the issues raised in the Epilogue and the Afterword or any other issue you'd like to raise?

This statement was in one of hongfan's posts:

"I'll never be the same after doing this work," Myerhoff says simply, scant weeks before she died, and you feel a sense of calmness in her words. "In Her Own Time" creates the same sense of change, about the determined Myerhoff and about this abundantly giving community.

How do YOU feel now that you have read this book? Do you feel changed in some way?  What way?






bellamarie

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #556 on: August 01, 2017, 05:55:41 PM »
Here is a link that gives the name of the book, and shows a list of the articles inside the book, A renewal of the word / Barbara Myerhoff   So, I will go on a book hunt tomorrow at my local library, and see if I can find this book, to read the piece.  For some reason, I just want to read the actual piece, that won the award.

http://evergreen.noblenet.org/eg/opac/record/2380703

hongfan, 
Quote
the article also mentioned that she grew up without knowing who is her father, and that in her life, Myerhoff was attracted to father figures. So this might play into her relationship with Shmuel.

Well, now this is interesting.  I grew up without my father who was killed in a train accident when I was two years old.  For me, growing up without a father, I did not search out for father figures, but what I did find is my daughter in law's grandfather, a very gentle, loving man, I found myself drawn to him like a father figure, over the years getting to know him. 

Ginny,
Quote
What I really can't understand is the reaction of bringing him up by the Center people.  I am really puzzled over the animosity.  Perhaps something went on that we don't know about? Because I don't see anything in what she's written which would cause such a reaction, do any of  you?

I think the animosity you see Myerhoff has for Jacob, is not so much personal, it's she wanted to keep Shmuel front and center from beginning to end.  She did not want Jacob to take the spotlight, with how much the Center people had liked and respected Jacob, the opposite of how they felt about Shmuel.  I think Myerhoff was damned and determined to give one last shot at getting the Center people to acknowledge and respect Shmuel for the brilliant person he was.  Maybe, she just felt she owed it to Shmuel  since she never got a chance to say good-bye to him before he died.  As for the Center people's feelings against Shmuel, as we have seen they can dig in their heels and refuse to give an inch.  Shmuel did not want or expect them to treat him any different.  He was okay with their differences of opinions, and their actions against him.  He could have stopped going to the Center if he took issue with how they felt about him and treated him.  He chose to continue to go.  Continuity and culture are the themes in the book.  This was Shmuel's new culture and continuity in America.

Thank you for this:   Shmuel Goldman, and that Rebekah never used her real last name but identified herself as his wife.

Later in the article she says Moishe Sacks was her chief informant and that most of what she wrote was about him. That might be his real name?


I know with all the great..... never leave a stone unturned members.....we will find the article and his real name. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

ginny

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #557 on: August 01, 2017, 06:17:01 PM »
I found it, and read it, it's available on JSTOR online.  It's 29 pages long. It's essentially  what  we've already read. It starts with Basha and her story but this time after that it's all Shmuel and he did give her a lot more interviews, I think, than we saw.

It's just him talking as he talked to her, the tapes,  and ends with her report of his death, so it's a lot more striking than what we have, the book  broken up as it is with commentary and other events, etc.

It does not mention his real name.

bellamarie

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #558 on: August 01, 2017, 07:00:11 PM »
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4335011?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Hope this link works, you have to register on the site to read their articles.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/4335011
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

hongfan

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Re: Number Our Days
« Reply #559 on: August 01, 2017, 10:23:35 PM »
1. Storytelling: do you agree with its importance? What part did it play in your life today? Have you narrated your own story to anybody, children, grandchildren, etc? Maybe this is a call to action. Have you ever looked at an old photo of somebody in your family and had no idea who it was and wished there were somebody alive you could ask? Maybe this is a wake up call for all of us. What role does story telling play in your own life?

Have any of you read "Sapiens: A Brief History of Human Kind" by Yuval Noah Harari? It was an international best seller into 30 languages. I have the book and haven't got to read it. By what I heard, the author essentially argued that the ability of storytelling IS the reason that has made us, Homo Sapiens, eventually stand out from the crowd and become the ruler over other species.

Here is some words from Bill Gates' review of the book:

Today, of course, there is just one human species alive. How did we Homo sapiens become so successful and others did not? Harari believes it was our unique cognitive abilities that made the difference. About 70,000 years ago, Homo sapiens underwent a “cognitive revolution,” Harari writes, which gave them the edge over their rivals to spread from East Africa across the planet.

Other species had big brains too, but what made Homo sapiens so successful is that we are the only animals who are capable of large-scale cooperation. We know how to organize ourselves as nations, companies, and religions, giving us the power to accomplish complex tasks. Harari’s concept of a “cognitive revolution” reminded me of David Christian’s notion in Big History of "collective learning," how the ability to share, store, and build upon information truly distinguishes us as humans and allowed us to thrive.

What’s unique about Harari’s take is that he focuses on the power of stories and myths to bring people together. Baboons, wolves, and other animals also know how to function as a group, of course, but their groups are defined by close social ties that limit their groups to small numbers. Homo sapiens has the special ability to unite millions of strangers around commons myths. Ideas like freedom, human rights, gods, laws, and capitalism exist in our imaginations, yet they can bind us together and motivate us to cooperate on complex tasks.


The author happens to be a Jewish scholar, a professor of history at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Maybe Jewish can appreciate more of the power of storytelling because of their distinctive religious traditions?

He now has published a new book, "Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow". Seems he thinks Homo Sapiens will loose its control and become obsolete.