Author Topic: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!  (Read 21408 times)

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Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« on: April 17, 2018, 08:31:59 PM »
WELCOME
EVERYONE!
Please, join our
Pre-Discussion of

Winter Garden
by Kristin Hannah
The story of a Family
 learning and connecting
to its history and
to each other.

Discussion Dates
Pre-Discussion...April 23-29
Prologue 1972 - Chapter 6...April 30-May 6
Chapter 7 - Chapter 13...May 7-May13
Chapter 14 - Chapter 20...May 14-May20
Chapter 21 - Epilogue 2010...May 21-May30

Discussion Leader: Barb

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion opens April 23.
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 10:55:08 AM »
Well we start - we've been looking forward to reading this book and Jonathan has posted a great endorsement for the story –

…you absolutely must read "Winter Garden" and participate in the discussion. It's a superlative book, on a par with Cherry-Garrard's "Worst Journey". It explores territory, which even angels would fear to tread. Absolutely engaging. My only advice would be not to read it before the discussion begins. Once begun, one can't put it down. It gave me the shivers.

In one breath it sounds glowing but on a darker note the Worst Journey was written by the survivors of a harrowing and ill-fated expedition– hmm ominous...

OK... we shall see what we shall see - this is the first time I’ve chosen not to read the book in advance.  I would like for a change to be surprised by each event as we read using our schedule.  I did read the last few paragraphs of a few chapters to determine where the logical breaks are for our discussion schedule – result, a few things popped up – could not help notice there appears to be a story inside a story with the last week's chapters devoted to an entire story that is told, I believe by the mother.

I did see mentioned, Indigenous Native craft and Cowichan sweaters, which suggests to me that we could spend some time this week finding out about the Cowichan people. 

Also valuable will be some background history about the battle pf Leningrad during WWII. 

Another topic to look into is the kind of apples they farm in Alaska.  I had no idea the weather was temperate long enough for apple orchards to prosper. I laughed realizing, as many think of Texas as miles of flat, windy ranchland with no trees so, I think of Alaska as covered in ice and snow 10 months out of the year. We need Judy to pop in and give us the low down on Alaska.
 
But more, do you have memories of doing something in the arts, like acting in a play or playing music with your sister or if you don’t have a sister, a best friend or a brother – Have you written in a journal about some of your childhood memories?

Who has had their DNA analyzed? If so, did you learn anything that helped anyone in your family?

Have you shared on tape or in an interview the stories of your childhood? Do you remember asking your parents or grandparents to tell you what it was like when they were little?   

How about – it would be fun - let’s all share one childhood memory of doing something, anything that involved our sister, brother or best friend.

OH my, yes - looking forward to this week with a variety of before the read issues and for us to get to know one another a bit more...  Laissez les bons temps rouler.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 09:36:56 AM »
Good Mornin!!  So excited to begin this book discussion. 

I grew up in a family with six siblings, ( one brother and five sisters), and my mother took in my two girl cousins who were one year older, and one year younger than myself, when I was eight years old.  So my younger sister, two cousins, and myself, became best friends.  We were inseparable.

Barb,
Quote
But more, do you have memories of doing something in the arts, like acting in a play or playing music with your sister or if you don’t have a sister, a best friend or a brother

I remember my brother, sisters, two cousins and myself dressing up like the Beverly Hillbillies and acting out a skit in our basement.  I was Granny, my cousin was Jethro since her name was Jessie, afterwards Jethro stuck with her forever. I put on my step Dad's huge high top, dried muddy work books and clogged around in them.  We had so much fun!

Quote
Have you shared on tape or in an interview the stories of your childhood? Do you remember asking your parents or grandparents to tell you what it was like when they were little?   

It's interesting you should ask this question Barb.  This past week-end our two youngest grandchildren spent the night with us and Saturday morning at the breakfast table Zak & Zoey kept asking my hubby and me to tell them stories about when we were little.  They could not get enough, we would end one and they would say, "Tell us one more."

Quote
Have you written in a journal about some of your childhood memories?

I actually have begun writing a book, which includes my entire childhood.  I get stuck and stop from time to time, because it can get very emotional remembering and reliving some of the difficult times. 

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Frybabe

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 11:18:16 AM »
Got the book, haven't started reading it yet. Will only have it two weeks as there are people in line. Still behind four people on Overdrive.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 01:29:42 PM »
Your fine Frybabe - we do not start discussing the book this week - from what I see the excerpt that Amazon includes is not the beginning of the book that starts with a seven page prologue entitled 1972 and then it goes into 2000 and so if the book is delayed at the library for two weeks you've got it made because except for the first 7 pages you can read and share next week by reading what Amazon is giving as a freebee.

Well Bellamarie it appears you grew up in a houseful of youngsters - I'm thinking with basements to play in and long cold winters, playacting would be a fun activity. Were the plays made up or were they similar to a story that you heard.

I guess it is playacting but my sister and I spent hours making out of mud what looked like loaves of bread and rolls and then we would find various wild plants that we stripped, I guess the seeds that looked like oats and coffee and we would search and find the newest shoot of grass all in miniature and pretend they were foods for sale and set them up as if on shelves or store bins full of this and that making the store out of entwined twigs. Took us at least an entire summer to figure out a roof since if the roof was on we could not see the inside of the store and yet we wanted a roof - a few of the oak leaves fell and we used them but we were never satisfied with the result - we did not know how to build a gable so we could have a slanted roof

Its easy to get started isn't it Bellamarie, with one remembered play time after the other - I can see how writing about childhood would be an emotional roller coaster - I'm remembering when Robin Roberts, from the ABC Morning show, had her illness and she was being interviewed after her recovery saying how her mother taught her that everyone has something and so she sees that there is always something for everyone she meets. I do not know if that thought helps us or not but it sure allows us look at each other as humans with vulnerabilities.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Jonathan

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2018, 05:12:53 PM »
We're hearing about it now that women are doing so much good writing. Girls have more fun. That being the case I'm pleased that the book is about mothers and daughters. Mom was very pleased that her first child was a girl. She wished for a second and wouldn't give up until, four boys later, her wish came true. It was great fun growing up in the thirties. We lived in a rural, suburban environment, on the prairies. Lots of scope for outdoor activities. We spent  a lot of time inventing new weapons, for hunting purposes, of course. We were very proud of our new slingshots and bows and arrows. Born hunters. And now I hear that girls were natural gatherers.  But we were always pleased to show them where to find the blueberry bush or the wild chokecherrry  tree. It was my good fortune to have the dearest mother and two lovely sisters.

What a fine winter scene, Barb. We're going to have a great time with this book. A wonderful journey.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 07:02:11 PM »
 :) never thought but yes Jonathan, as kids we were true to Anthropology with girls gathering and boys hunting - love it - and yes, growing up before WWII we used much of the natural surroundings for our play - thinking on it, most of childhood was playacting wasn't it - boys pretended to be warriors, hunters, explorers or copy the movements of big league ball players. I remember my kid brother playing spy and they rigged up all sorts of wire and string that was supposed to send secret messages. They spent an awful lot of time hanging out in trees - there were a couple of big trees nearby and girls were not allowed - oh my - one memory does bleed into the next doesn't it.

Jonathan when were you conscious of being at war during WWII - Seems England was experiencing the affect of bombs long before the US entered the war on Dec. of '41 - was Canada kept informed and were y'all following the war experience in England, with the thinking Canada was at war or was Canada made aware of the war on, as President Roosevelt said, the day that will live in infamy?

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2018, 10:01:56 PM »
Jonathan, how exciting your childhood sounds!  Growing up, I cherished my brother who is two years older than me, and was my protector.  I was like his sidekick.  He, my younger sister, and myself, would go exploring in the ditches on our rural road.  I'll never forget the day we were all near a neighbor's huge oak tree near the ditch, and there wrapped around itself was the hugest snake I had ever laid eyes on.  I had nightmares about that snake, even after I was married and moved away. 

Barb
Quote
They spent an awful lot of time hanging out in trees - there were a couple of big trees nearby and girls were not allowed -

Oh dear, not this tomboy!  There isn't a tree my brother, sister or myself would not climb.  We had no toys to play with besides one doll we got new on Christmas morning, so we had to use mother nature's rocks, twigs, grass, flowers and other items outdoors like bricks, ropes, old tires and a very beat up bicycle without tires on it to keep us active on our acres and acres of land.  Imagination was our greatest treasure for playing outside.  Inside, my sister and I played paper dolls cut out from newspapers and catalogs.  I was born in 1952, but we lived much like in the 40s, outhouse and all, until I was around 5 yrs. old.  Funny, how those times seemed so rich to us, when in reality we were what people called, "dirt poor."  Like my Mom would always say, "No matter how little you have, you take good care of what you own." 

Barb, we always made up our own skits, that is what made me the writer I am today. 

Frybabe, I'm so glad you got your book.  If you are worried about not having it once the discussion begins take some notes of the high points so you can remember to discuss them as we read the book.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 10:43:59 AM »
My book is waiting at the library.  I'll pick it up today.  I can keep it for three weeks, and renew it if no one is waiting.

JoanK and I did go through a play-writing phase.  Only one has survived, from our Greek period, a fairly straightforward three page retelling of the story of Circe and Odysseus.  The chorus is Odysseus' crew, which had been magically turned into animals.  We did another one of the story of the sculptor Pygmalion, who fell in love with his statue of Galatea, a beautiful woman.  In the myth, he prays for the statue to come to life, and they live happily ever after.  In our version, Galatea turns out to be a horrible shrew, and the desperate Pygmalion figures out how to turn her back into a statue.

Nobody ever tried to keep me from climbing trees, and I spent a lot of time in a wild cherry tree in our back yard.  It was a good place to read.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 12:04:44 PM »
Pat how many years difference are there between you and Joan - vaguely I am thinking maybe you are twins but not sure - your memories of writing plays is fun to hear about - the Greeks no less - was it when you were 9 or 10 - I am having a difficult time thinking you know the myths that well at an earlier age

The trees we have climbed - do today's kids climb trees? Maybe they do it by way of virtual reality... I had a wonderful magnolia in the side yard that the grandboys used to climb - but they had so many other activities that climbing trees was not up front center for them - The one used to hang out for hours at the junk yard while my daughter went grocery shopping and he would cart home all sorts of bits and pieces - he did make his own go cart and a few other things he and his younger brother played with in the backyard and then the tears flowed when they moved to the Carolina's and he had to leave all that here. Oh oh oh.

Well change of focus - the book talks about apple orchards and that was a shock to me to even think there were apple orchards in Alaska - found this great site that includes a map of the well known orchards and a list of the apples grown in Alaska runs in a column along the side

https://www.orangepippin.com/orchards/united-states/alaska
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2018, 12:58:35 PM »
We are twins.  JoanK is an hour and forty five minutes older.  We learned some Greek and Roman myths in grade school, but we were also voracious readers, and read more somewhere or other.

bellamarie

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2018, 09:59:03 AM »
PatH., that is amazing how you and Joan learned some Greek and Roman myths in grade school.  I don't think I even was aware of any until high school.  Where did you grow up, and what type of school did you attend?  The only two books I remember reading at all, in my entire school years were A Tale of Two Cities and Hiroshima, in high school English Lit class.  Joining Senior Learn is where I have actually been introduced to Shakespeare and mythology. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2018, 01:02:54 PM »
Bellamarie I could be wrong but I wonder - my two oldest children were born in '53 and '54 and where they were introduced to some of the myths was in their 4th and 5th grade readers - filled with stories that were read with a list of vocabulary words to learn and a list of at least 10 spelling words to memorize for each story.

My oldest was interested in a few of the myths and so yes, aside from school required reading, for Christmas I found a book of the myths for him and later when he was in 7th grade a book of American Indian myths so yes, learning the myths as a subject in English classes was not part of the curriculum but a few myths were sprinkled in their readers - those stories in those readers were never memorable and so I am wondering if that was your experience and the few myths you may have read were simply not memorable.

I guess I am thinking of the Harry Potter series that I cannot imagine the myths woven into that series was the first exposure grade school readers had considering the ease and popularity of those books. I sure miss that time when the new book was announced with book stores having the big todo the first night the book was released and seeing all those children pickup up their order when their name was called and then plunking down on any empty spot in or outside the books store and start reading in earnest - I used to go just to observe the excitement and see all the costumes.

With everything online now I wonder if they could even pull off the kind of release they did with the Harry Potter books - that may have been the last hurrah when a hardback book was given such an exciting launch that affected millions of kids.

What is on the front cover of your copy of Winter Garden? My copy is a hardback and the slip cover is mostly in medium to light blues with what looks like the row of trees in an orchard covered in snow with the backs of three people walking and in the lower right side of the cover is a close up of a fruit tree in bud with a few blossoms and a white butterfly. I'm curious what the significance is of the white butterfly - I'm guessing it will become clear reading the book. Have not started yet. Wrong time of year for fresh apples but the cover reminds me that reading in the afternoon with a baked apple and cup of coffee would be a nice treat.   
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2018, 03:46:11 PM »
My copy is the same as you describe yours as Barb.  Maybe we will find out the significance of the butterfly once we read it.  I just finished reading The Women In The Castle today.  Oh dear..... I am done with war stories for awhile, I  need a break.  The ending is so moving, melancholy, emotional and a bit depressing.  It's going back to the library tomorrow. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Jonathan

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2018, 06:11:12 PM »
Dark and mysterious. That's the cover on my paperback Winter Garden. No white butterfly. But it does have a brilliant, white patch of sky behind the  dark silhouette of a Russian ecclesiastical structure, the whole cover in various shades of blue. Very wintery.  The reader is promised "A searing story with a breathtaking, beautiful ending."

Toronto has been devastated by the act of terror on our main street on Monday. It's going to take a big effort to get on with our lives. A good book in the company of friends...what a solace!

PatH

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2018, 08:50:11 PM »
Jonathan, it must be creepy to have something like that hit so close.  My concert buddy was in Toronto Monday, but seems to have escaped unscathed.  Life doesn't quite seem ordinary these days.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2018, 10:35:24 PM »
Oh my Jonathan - did not realize you lived near Toronto - imagined you over in Nova Scotia - it is all very un-nerving isn't it - wasn't it in France or was it London that a couple of years ago had a vehicle plow into people on a bridge. - between public places and schools becoming war zones and the streets of many cities become places of slaughter - all since the first attempt at taking down the World Trad Center - this is easy to see that many folks can easily be riled by ordinary disasters to follow in the footsteps of this carnage.

And I am soooo sooo tired of every incident being made into a political diatrade that is purposely reported in a way to engage opposite thinking. I am getting to the point where I think there are puppet handlers behind all of it... or at least how it is reported. 

This is when I am so glad we read A Gentleman in Moscow - I'm thinking voluntary, close by house arrest with only a limited access to the 'village' we live in may be our mental safety-net since there is little we can do about these world issues. I know I know pulling the shades down around me - but I am weary hearing about it and reading about it and seeing it on the TV that I barely turn on any more.

Well onward - it will be interesting to see how this family copes with world events that took place in the lifetime of some family members.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2018, 10:44:49 AM »
Jonathan, I had no idea you lived in Toronto, like Barb I had envisioned you in a different place.  I can't imagine how you all must be feeling.  Our day to day safety is sometimes taken for granted, yet when something like this strikes so close to home it truly does shake us to our core.  I am keeping all of the victims and their families in my prayers, as well as all Canadians.

Since I finished The Women In The Castle, I am going to begin Winter Garden today.  It is a glorious sunny, warm day here in my city, so first it's outside to putter around in my  Spring Garden of flowers popping up.  Weeds and leaves must be cleared away.  My first attempt to grow tulips has proven a success, they are just about to bloom and show their beautiful color of red! 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Jonathan

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2018, 04:08:16 PM »
Let me tell you what a swell place Toronto has become with people from everywhere making it their home. I've lived here for most of my life and assumed you all knew that. How could it happen here, we're all wondering. I hope your concert buddy will come back, Pat, along with the many other visitors who come here to enjoy the many cultural amenities, including some splendid gardens. However the best years of my life were the early ones in the wild wide-open West. What fun to chop down a tree. After making sure the girls weren't up there on some branch reading their books.

CallieOK

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2018, 08:35:27 PM »
X....marking my spot.   I am #2 on the wait list for the e-book. 

I'm an only child and grew up on 160 acres of pastureland 2 miles outside the city limits of my small hometown in southeastern Oklahoma.  So I spent a lot of time roaming around the barnyard and to the two small ponds not far from the house. 

There was a sandbox just outside the kitchen door with a long table on which I made mud pies, etc.   One  time I let a tarantula crawl onto the big spoon I was using - then took it into the kitchen to ask my Mother what it was.  History does not record her reaction or reply.   :D

After a huge tree (probably an oak)  toward the back of our yard area was split by lightning,  my friends and I would  "set up housekeeping"  on the three divisions of the split trunk.  It was fun to crawl back and forth "visiting" each other.

Sometimes, my parents and I drove out to the middle of the biggest pasture on a moonless night and looked at the stars.  They had given me a book of the myths on which the constellations were based and I fondly remember stretching out on the hood of the car to search from horizon to horizon for the shapes.

Am looking forward to following along with the discussion.

PatH

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2018, 12:41:22 AM »
Jonathan:
Quote
After making sure the girls weren't up there on some branch reading their books.
;D
My friend enjoyed Toronto immensely, and got back in one piece, in fact we went to a concert this evening.

JoanK and I grew up in Washington, DC, but I could still go stargazing, because it was wartime, and we had an enforced blackout, so stars were brightly visible.  I learned my constellations from an excellent set of star maps in the July 1943 National Geographic, which I still use.  They have pictures of the mythical characters, too.

bellamarie

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2018, 10:38:07 AM »
Callie, your childhood sounds idyllic, with your best friend.  I can't imagine what being an only child could be like, since I grew up with never a private place, or moment with our gaggle of girls.  Everyone used to say they felt sorry for the only boy in the family, which we would all laugh and say how spoiled he was, having all his sisters to wait on him hand and foot.

Star gazing is something I find myself doing more and more these past couple of years.  My one friend posts the location of the satellite spaceship on Facebook, to keep us informed.

Jonathan, my hubby and I visited Toronto for our 10 year anniversary back in 1981.  I fell in love with the beauty of the city.  I was amazed at how you don't see parked cars on the streets, and the underground shopping mall.  I'll have to find a picture we took when we were there.  I'll never forget dining at a restaurant where this French waiter came to take our order.  He addressed us so very formal, and I must say I blushed at all the attention he gave to me.  My hubby found it just a tad annoying, but we both had a good laugh about it later. 

PatH., so you grew up in the hustle and bustle of the life of Washington D.C.  We visited D.C. back around 2001, and was thrilled to tour the White House.  We loved getting first hand experience of what it's like to be around so much of our country's treasured monuments, buildings, and loved watching the Changing of the Guards.   We hope to go again one day to visit the Smithsonian, since we were not able to find the time to get to that. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

CallieOK

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2018, 11:14:53 AM »
BellaMarie,  even though friends who lived in town and I visited back and forth during our childhoods,  I longed to be able to walk out the door and find a neighborhood full of playmates as they could do.

The most special thing about those friendships is that they continue to this very day.  We went through all 12 years of school together - then went our separate ways but still stayed in contact.   We always saw each other at class reunions but, after our 50th reunion, really reconnected and, until age began taking its toll, had "house parties" in various homes and even did some traveling together.  Two of the "Super Six" have died but the others, now in our 80's, are still in touch via phone, text and e-mail.

I miss the star-gazing.  Too many city lights around me now.

PatH

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2018, 11:24:59 AM »
The street I lived on was like any residential area in any city or town, but I could hop on a bus and go downtown to visit the museums whenever I wanted to.  The dinosaurs in the Smithsonian were my old acquaintances.  And they're free.  I'm still not used to paying big bucks to enter a museum.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2018, 04:35:14 PM »
Grrrr how is THAT for a start - but it happens so many times - had a great post going - was interrupted and as a result several other windows were open - finally finish with those I was talking with and shoot, blast I eliminate the whole shooting mach - hit the button that even reminds me I have several windows open - had completely forgotten this connection and blasted all I deleted the whole thing... grrr now to start in all over again. Good Grief there goes the phone again - later...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2018, 04:57:20 PM »
Grrrr is right.

bellamarie

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2018, 11:01:56 AM »
Barb, I wish I had a dime for every time I have wrote a ton, and lost it.  Grrr.... and Ughhhhh.....

I read this coming week's assigned chapters and, OH MY, is all I will say right now.  These chapters have my emotions all over the place, not to mention, has me rethinking my childhood memories of my relationships with my mother and siblings. 

Jonathan, I guess the word, "shiver" is the perfect word to describe this story.  I read a few chapters before I went to visit my sister and brother in law, who is recuperating from pancreatic cancer surgery.  He is doing quite well after spending almost nine months in the hospital, due to various complications.  She and I walked out on her front porch to look at our Mother's rose bushes that survived our homestead fire, after my Mother's death. She and her husband had purchased our family home after our mother died, their/our family house caught fire due to faulty electrical wiring after they moved into the house. Her husband rebuilt on the land, so when I visit it is still like, going home.  I wanted to compare her rose bush growth, with how mine looked that she had given me a shoot from last year, and assessed by the looks of hers, mine will flower nicely this year.  We sat talking and this book kept creeping up into my thoughts.  I came home exhausted, tried to watch some shows on my DVR, and this book kept invading my thoughts.  I decided to go to bed, and brought the book upstairs to read til I was ready to fall asleep.  I woke up, and the first thing I saw was the book on my nightstand, and all the emotions came back.  Mercy me, I am only up to chapter six and I already feel emotionally drained.  Family dynamics tend do that to us. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2018, 03:00:30 PM »
Oh my Bellamarie - well I need to ground myself and feel adequate than - and with that, a story that were my life guide experiences that I had only more fully tapped back into in the last few years.

Some backstory... Unlike several of you, I grew up in 3 different places, spread far from each other - As a very young child it was Tampa Florida. Only a few memories - I do remember being angry with my grandmother - I was 2, before my sister was born and Mama had me sitting on the shelf outside the big kitchen window so that my hair would dry in the sun - Grandma comes in angry and scolding my mother - of course in those years all in German, which alone sounds like the clouds have opened and all this sound is emanating from some hidden doomsday God - the gist of it was, "she could fall", including all these expletives about my mother being either crazy or dumb in the head - if I was a bit scared, no more - would not give in or agree with anyone scolding my mother.  ;D

Then White County Ga. where there was lots of mud to play with and in and there was a lot of singing - both my mother and my Aunt played the piano and my Uncle played the Violin and an older cousin the accordion - music all the time.

Then much of my grade school years was in a Throgs Neck when it was all dirt or gravel roads, with fields of tall grass as far as the eye could see. A scattering of homes, a long, unpaved street with various shops and where the end of the line for the Trolley car was located that connected us to the city. Then in seventh grade we moved to City Island, an old 1647 seafaring community, where huge wooden boats were still handmade in several of the boat yards, there was a sail loft that made huge sails including the sails for the world famous America’s Cup yachts, lots of fishermen and lobster men and older folks dug clams - Three churches, with the Catholic Church having all of 14 pews. The grade school had 4 classes, with two classes sharing the same room and same teacher - High School was a daily, hour and a half bus trip into the city - lots of homework completed, books read and socks knitted on that twice a day trip. 

Both places have changed dramatically since my childhood - still no High School on City Island but no longer a seafaring community - both areas are busy, full of houses, paved roads, shops, restaurants and lots of traffic.  The same in Tampa with only White County remaining rural although, it too has paved roads and other amenities. However, the White County relatives all moved to various locations in North Carolina and most of the Tampa relatives are now in Ocala. After I married I lived 4 years on a small farm near Wappingers Falls NY and then back south, living over a dozen years in Kentucky and 51 years here in Austin.

Each place I lived had an impact on my life - mostly because of the opportunities each area offered - and now, after all that, the story of how I experienced feeling adequate to the task of living when the living is filled with the unexpected.

The Summer when I was about 7 my father made me a kite - we raided mom's rag bag for pieces of cloth to make the tail and he had a ball of string that he showed me how to wind like a figure 8 on a wooden stick - up our gravel street was the cross street that dropped off into a steep dirt hill that lead to the swamp and the top of the hill was at the end of our street - kids would fly their kite from that hill top - my father got me started - my sister, who is 2 and half years younger tagged along, watched but quickly lost interest –

I loved it - I could feel the pull of the wind and how my pulling against the wind was flying this kite – The other kids had store bought kites of wonderful colors - cost 10 cents that we just did not have - saved all winter and by the next Spring I purchased my kite - I chose a yellow one - then I asked my father if he could get any more string - I remember the smile he had when he came home with a large ball of string that we added with a special knot - I thought my kite could reach the clouds - One day a huge blimp from Germany came over and the people waved - I knew they could see my kite - this had to be the summer before the war when I was 8 – I turned 9 a month after the war started.

I remember holding tight that kite string, feeling the wind shifts and having to work when the wind dropped, pumping the string to keep the kite in the air - on and on I learned how to work with the wind - it was finally the third year of kite flying that the girl across the street joined us and my sister also tried but she could not keep her kite in the air and so she went back home. Chicky, the girl across the street did not like the silence - she kept trying to talk with the boys who were intent on flying their kite and not interested - nor did she like working the kite with the wind - so there I was again, the only girl among 5 or 6 boys spread across the top of that hill as we, from time to time made short comments for all to hear about what the wind was doing. 

When I was a teen I loved sailing - there were sailboats of all sizes around the island and I loved not only sailing, I loved sanding down and varnishing the hauls each spring and re-splicing ropes and polishing the brass just as much as sailing the boats.

Pat Cranna, my best friend and I would climb aboard the large two and three mast sailboats that were waiting for repairs and climb the tallest mast to dive off making sure we cleared the deck - sometimes we were so high we were scared but did it anyhow. As girls, we were not allowed to join the long sail down the coast as most of the teen boys took those large yachts down to Florida each year in late Summer and came back by train - but we did get to experience the joy of cutting through the water, using the wind and knowing how to close haul (pull-in) or reach (let loose the sails) to get the most from the wind - I loved hauling tight the sail, catching the wind as close as possible so that we had to hang off the other side to keep the boat from tipping - no noise like a motor boat and clean cutting with a slicing feeling of moving along the water, watching the tiny directional streamers attached to the top of the mast - I loved it.

Later, as a responsible adult and Mom, I felt more like a serving tray than flying a kite or sailing - yes, I filled high my serving tray with lots of goodies to please and colorfully decorated everything on my serving tray and yes, I will always instinctively take care of others however, not realizing it, there was always a tiny piece of me, flying my kite or sailing my boat, reading the wind as I did at 7, standing on that hill, flying my kite watching for a change in the wind and learning from a few of the older, more experienced kite flyers what to do, when and why.

And so, the wind has changed again. Now I'm an elder in a town that has multiplied 3 to 4 times the size it was in 1966 when we chose this lot, that was then located on the edge of town and my children and grandchildren have since scattered. Over the years, my life has been calm to full of storms with a couple of tornadoes - during it all I kept my kite flying and sailed without cracking up or crashing on the rocks, even kept my serving tray afloat and so, I'm ready, let's see how the wind is blowing for the characters in Kristin Hannah's story.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2018, 03:17:36 PM »
Barb, how wonderful your growing up years sound.  Hold on tight to that kite,  and get ready to set sail, because this story will have your emotions going in all sorts of directions. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Jonathan

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2018, 03:31:53 PM »
From Barb...'Grrrr! Had a great post going.' Like Coleridge, when he was tragically interrupted while working on Kubla Khan? What a loss!

How nice to hear from you, Callie. The environment in which you grew up sounds so familiar. The games we played with the stars that filled the sky. Find me this. Find me that. Do you see that stellar formation that spells out 'I love you'? And she would reply: 'I see it spelled out in six places.' I wonder if she ever suspected that I had rearranged them to send my message.

Bellamarie, I hope all the world reads your post and then goes for the book. Family dynamics! Indeed.

What a glorious post, Barb. As good as anything Coleridge composed. Seriously.

Frybabe

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2018, 07:09:14 AM »
Good news! I was able to renew Winter Garden the backlog of waits must have cleared while I had this one. I hope to start reading it today.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2018, 07:37:04 AM »
Hurray for you Frybabe - catching up with all of us Jonathan - thanks for the kudos - today is the day Bellamarie - I will grab the string of my kite as the wind blows during this read - we start tomorrow - Cannot believe a whole week just zoomed by...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2018, 07:50:55 PM »
Callie your two small ponds on the land of your childhood home have been in my mind off and on today - I wondered if they were tanks or natural - and if natural did they have any tall grasses like Cattails or Reeds growing along the edge of the ponds - Did you swim or fish in them?

I remember when the cattails held onto the furry, cigar-shaped seed heads we would break them or cut them and then have fun smoking them on a summer's night supposedly to ward off misquotes but actually to play act as if we were smoking a cigar - fun and games when we were kids. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2018, 07:57:59 PM »
Half way in our first week's read - I am about to start chapter 4 - Oh dear - she sure knows how to write doesn't she - I need a break already - brings up a lot of my own family issues that I, like Meredith would just as soon not dredge up - even if you do share, no one can really say anything except 'they are sorry' and other noises that just does not help does it... well when the wind blows hard it takes a bit more skill but it sure does not stop dead either kite or sail - you go with it or let go and let the wind have its way with you so you are as lost as a kite flying into oblivion or a sail battering against the mast - onward through chapter 4 to 6
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2018, 09:59:30 PM »
Barb, I really relate to your talk of sailing and kite flying.  But I'm too sleepy to say more now.  Another time.

Jonathan, I admire your ability to let the stars write your love letters.

CallieOK

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2018, 11:50:53 PM »
Barb,  the ponds had been dug to provide water for livestock.   Both had natural grasses around them but I spent most of my time at the one with a big weeping willow tree on the bank.  I don't remember any cattails.   No swimming but, occasionally, my dad and I would fish - with a cane pole, a long string and a worm on a hook.
My dad was an attorney but loved the "rural life", even though he didn't look or act the part of a farmer or rancher - other than to drive around the pasture in his pickup. The pasture was leased to a local man who used it to fatten a few cattle at a time before selling them (I think; I didn't really pay that much attention to that part). 
We did have fresh milk and home-churned butter (I still have my mother's Daisy churn) but, in general, our daily life was more like "town folks" than "country people".

Jonathan,  I enjoyed reading about your romantic star-gazing.  Unfortunately, by the time I reached that stage of my life, I lived in a city - haven't gazed at a horizon-to-horizon starry sky in probably 70 years. 

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2018, 12:16:19 AM »
aha - interesting Callie here we call a man made pond or lake mostly used to collect and hold rain water, a tank. Most tanks the ranchers stock with fish that the state has a release every few years - and yes, the world we grew up in regardless its location is so changed now - we have all become further detached from nature haven't we. In one breath it's nice to think back and in another it is so sad - even the nicest city streets cannot compare to those empty forests and fields can they.   
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2018, 12:21:16 AM »
OK Pat a whole post just to say goodnight and sleep tight and hope you wake refreshed in the morning - need to use up a couple of posts so we can start fresh with a new page tomorrow, the first day of our discussion.

Trying to remember what I read of hers years and years ago - something that took place in maybe Norway or Sweden I think - her ability in this book to tell a story that strikes the reader's emotions is as good as it gets - many authors can describe how someone feels or describe a sad or even horrific scene - but she knows how to get to it with the characters actions - not so much even describing how the character feels but just what they do and what they say - amazing.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2018, 12:29:07 AM »
Learned a bit about the Apple industry - never thought that apples like many products lose their popularity - it's true for me - I seldom by Golden Delicious any longer - I remember when Golden Delicious first hit the market and everyone was delighted with the juicy sweetness - and grapes - interesting - I do now get a sack of grapes every week when I shop - I like to snack on them rather than cookies or muffins - and I realize there are so many fruits and berries available year round so that I no longer cook the sauces that I always had a bowl of some sauce or other in the frig - often a dollop was added to the side of a dinner that has meat and veggies - seem to have gotten out of that habit as well.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2018, 12:31:53 AM »
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe