Author Topic: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion  (Read 33272 times)

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #120 on: September 26, 2018, 06:19:53 PM »


Tartışmalarımıza Hoş Geldiniz
(Welcome to our Discussion)

A historical novel, brimming with all the intrigue, romance, beauty, power, pageantry and brutality of the Sixteenth century told through the eyes of Jahan, the apprentice to Sinan, the Architect and Mahout to the white elephant, gift to the Salton.

“I work to honour the divine gift. Every artisan and artist enters into a covenant with the divine.” Sinan, Architect for three Sultans


Discussion Schedule:
  • Mon. & Tues., September 17 & 18.....To page 18
  • Tuesday, September 18...........Before the Master
  • Tuesday, September 25...........The Master
  • Tuesday October 2...................The Dome - to page 256
  • Tuesday October 9...................The Dome - page 257 to 331
  • Tuesday October 16.................After the Master


PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #121 on: September 26, 2018, 06:21:04 PM »
Good grief, Barb, take care of yourself and recover.

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #122 on: September 26, 2018, 11:31:07 PM »
Oh Barb, I hope you are okay, how awful.

Please know I am in no way arguing any point, especially with my wise, insightful, and intelligent friend Jonathan.  There are so many layers to this story, and lots of room for many different views.  But I am in complete alignment with Jonathan.  I hope it did not come over differently. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #123 on: September 26, 2018, 11:55:40 PM »
Jonathan
Quote
Jahan amuses Mihrimah. She's fond of the elephant.

Aha!  I think you may be right.  He thinks she is coming for him, you are on point, she is fond of the elephant.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #124 on: September 27, 2018, 02:22:08 PM »
pg. 152  Over the years Jahan would visit it on many occasions, but nothing would give him such pleasure as being in Simeons's house, surrounded by the smells of ink, leather and baking bread.

Aw.... sounds wonderful to me!
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #125 on: September 27, 2018, 02:55:09 PM »
Sorta back with the living today - thanks for yall's concern - I've been through this cycle so many times so that it is a pain in the neck - I end up loosing 2 days - one practically comatose with all the meds to both stop the reaction and see me through the pain and then the next day to get over the cure day between being so tired and full of gas - but I still cannot see paying someone to set off some insecticide bombs or whatever they are called. And so onward.

Yes, Bellamarie - You picked up on such a wonderful message in this book - a journey of faith, family, friendship, fortune and future - I too see many ways that the story is told that hits something within us that is a glorification to God or even as simply as a gratification for the skills, faith, family and friends we are blessed with and then the opportunities to practice and put our skills to use. 

I am looking at my own home in a different light - yes, life, caring, loving, and practicing skills that affect the future all took place inside this home that I remember when it was built. The entire design was not mine however, I did make big changes to the original plan for the kitchen and the bathrooms - in fact the builder used some of my changes in the homes he later built - to this day the changes I made, especially to the kitchen, serves me well and is where I have created many meals that brought together many folks - with so much disappointment in my life and dealing with the aftermath it is easy to forget the good that happened because of some innate desire to think how a home can bring better usable places and then learn the measurements for the space needed and learn how to draw it out, learning the thickness of walls and where the electric wiring goes and how the heat duct gets to a room and where the plumbing is needed and how it will get there in a straight line with the least number of bends.

This story is bringing back some of that experience that when my daughter and her husband built their home they did design it from scratch and I helped her - I sat at the kitchen table with my large wooden board and drew it out asking her where she envisioned every aspect of her home. She and Gary did have a few main ideas that were the basis for their home.  Their home is more playful and with two active boys they included a regulation half basketball court that over they years became a place, especially in winter, where many of the children in their small town came and played for a few hours after school or rainy Saturday afternoons and many a New Year's party ended up with half the guests playing basketball.

I see our individual gifts being explored, practiced and shared within a home that to me is as much of a blessing showing adoration for God as we show with ceremony in a church, temple, mosque. I'm remembering while attending grade and high school we drew a quick cross on the top of every paper we wrote and realize we wake up in the morning with a quick prayer of thanksgiving - in today's environment where the public mention of religion is politicized it is easy to forget the wonderment we establish when we see God's hand in our man made and natural environment. 

I've seen Zoroastrians in several stories and did a superficial job of learning who they were and what they believed but I think the time is now to really find out - as I understand it the Zoroastrian's beliefs are incorporated in the Christian beliefs - I do not know enough about their practices and ceremonies or how they organized themselves much less do I know more than a superficial view of their beliefs - please if you know anything about the Zoroastrians would you share...

Jonathan you can kick off so many insightful aspects of this story in just a few words - fabulous - and yes, Jahan amuses Mihrimah however, it appears his fascination with Mihrimah goes deeper and here he is with the anxiety of battle foremost the night before and a camp follower is the cause for his sexual awakening that he has not sorted out how to handle.

Pat yes, thanks, the words to describe the relationship between Jahan and Sinan - Jahan is the protegee of Sinan - we do not often see this kind of relationship as we did when skills were learned under the tutelage of an experienced craftsman do we.

Wow miracle of miracles - out of the blue my computer just shut down - seems to have come from the service - took me forever to get it back and lo and behold my post had not disappeared but was just as I left it - wow - and here I was sure it was a lost cause - wow...   

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #126 on: September 27, 2018, 11:33:06 PM »
Barb
Quote
please if you know anything about the Zoroastrians would you share...
When I was teaching my CCD class last night this word came up in our chapter, then I read it in our book.  So, since I did not have the least bit of knowledge about this belief, I decided to do a Google search.  Here is a link to answer the basic questions to learn about it.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zoroastrianism

Barb, I could only dream of having the chance to design my own home.  I want so badly to add french glass sliding doors in my eating area, so I can have a better view of my backyard from my kitchen table.  Since my hubby and I retired we have become avid bird watchers, and along with my gardening I just want to look out and see my entire backyard.  Hopefully next Spring.  More plumbing problems took up my last two days.  This time it was the inside pipes.  Had to have new lines, shut off valves, kitchen sick and faucet done.  I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone.  Glad you are feeling better.

I hope to finish the last pages of this section tomorrow.  More then.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #127 on: September 28, 2018, 01:03:13 PM »
I just finished this section and to summarize it, Jahan and Davud has been sent to Rome to study the San Pietro and to learn more about other artist's work.  They get a chance meeting with Michelangelo, he gives them a letter to bring to Sinan, they get robbed and come back with nothing, all their sketches, money, and the letter have been stolen from them.  The Princess has been married off to someone she is not happy with, and Chota is happy he was able to mate with the elephant the gypsies owned. 

pg. 173  They would never get to know what I1 Divino had written to their master.  The correspondence between Chief Architect of Rome and the Chief Royal Architect of Istanbul was severed, and not for the first time.  The apprentices arrived at the house of Sinan with nothing to offer him.  It was as though nothing remained from their long journey, except the ache in their limbs and the memories of San Pietro, already withering away.

So, who stole their things in Rome?  Davud and Jahan have been forewarned, Sinan like all have enemies.  Jahan remembers the problems that have been happening at their site when building the mosque.  What will become of the Princess, now that she sees Chota is growing up and not so interested in him any longer?  Jahan is dealing with his aching heart for her, and fears she will no longer come to visit.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #128 on: September 28, 2018, 05:20:48 PM »
Wow - this is a story - thanks for the summery Bellamaire - great - I smiled - the issue between east and west as a metaphor is captured in the pilfering from the east while the east essentially genuflects to the artistic and mechanical genus of the west.

So many bits of wisdom sprinkled along the way - a few early in the chapter that impressed or actually perplexed me...

"Sometimes, for the soul to thrive, the heart needs to be broken" I dwelt on that for a few days - I could see it happening - we've all experienced heartache but, what is a soul thriving - what does a soul do or provide, that is separate from the heart - assuming the heart is our good feelings - our positive emotions - is it our good actions or does our good feelings prompt our good actions - they say, think and it will happen - so do we think our feelings - is it, thought affects feelings that affect actions and therefore our heart is from our thoughts - but then what is the soul and where does our soul show itself - it appears the soul has no feelings - does it cause us to act? If our soul is immortal, is that our center, as in the center of the universe? Is the soul are 'north' star but then how do we account for good and bad behavior or does that have nothing to do with our soul? Is it our thinking or our feelings or our heart that prompts out good and bad behavior?

Thought I had all this figured out but when the soul is affected by what happens to the heart - loads of new questions emerge - if the heart needs to be broken for the soul to thrive does that mean the soul does not thrive when the heart is grateful or experiences wonderment, joy or success?

With this later quote in the book "When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy." Does that mean that Joy allows a soul to shrivel or halt, the opposite of thrive?

What was the benefit of carving an elephant that caused such carnage during war with his tusks and instead of carving with sharp, lethal tusks, the carving is finished with two flowers in its place. Flowers are blissful and festive, the things of joy and yet, the soul thrives with a broken heart that would be carving what represents melancholy, misery, sadness.  Does this caring act to uplift someone really say, we try to uplift others temporary being, the heart, at the expense of their soul? If so that would fall in line with the destroying of your work to gain mastery. Mastery being more valuable than the joy of completion. Questions questions questions.... 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #129 on: September 29, 2018, 10:05:20 AM »
There are lots of different themes running through this story, with architect being the main backdrop.  Building, whether it be building relationships, mosques, reputations, skills, faith, self confidence, self awareness, self worth, building trust, knowing who your enemies are, building talents etc., etc.

I think of how Chota was born half the size as normal size elephants, and yet the majestic accomplishments he has made in his life.  Being chosen to be the Sultan's elephant, chosen to fight in the war, chosen to be the entertainment of royal celebration, the Princess has found him to be a focus and fondness of her days, and how he is used to help build bridges, and buildings that will last a lifetime.  Then you have Jahan, who is from a family of little wealth, affection, or opportunities, yet look how far he has come.  To stand in the presence of the great Michelangelo himself.  He has earned the trust of many. 

I'm not so sure this book was written for the main interest of architecture, as more it is written with a message of how great a person can become if you are able to find your talents in life, your balance in life, your true faith in life, coming to the centre of the universe in doing so.  It sure has made me think about a lot of things daily.  Being a teacher of religion to third grade students, I find myself reflecting on how faith is built.  Like I was discussing with my students this past week on how as a baby your parents are the first to influence you and choose your religion for you, then you gain knowledge through your years of education which brings you to deciding what faith you will follow as an adult when you are able to choose for yourself.  It is the mere foundation, much like the foundation of these famous buildings and mosques, that will determine whether you will stand the test of time.

Who would have thought when we chose, and began this particular book about famous mosques in Istanbul, we would be seeing a much more important subject to consider.   Not me for sure.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #130 on: September 29, 2018, 01:17:01 PM »
Yes, building - then I think where Jahan questions if tearing down what was built is a waste and I see all the wasted humans who were torn down or were never built up - like Jahan, I do not understand as I see humanity, whose sweat, faith and work is in ruins - yes, I agree and see the wonders Bellamarie of all those whose lives are changed in ways they never dreamed - and yes, that is the American dream however, I also see many whose lives have been ruined through no fault of their own - it is as if there is a bigger hand controlling their fate just as, the unexpected hand of fate can offer opportunities - so far, it appears to be like throwing dice how the hand of fate will build or tear down what we, in our expectation and faith in working hard, will achieve, how our good effort affects our destiny. I'd like to think the greater hand in our fate is a God but I am seeing too many being hurt by the power and control of money. To just condemn that miss-use of power does not alter the experience of those who are torn down by trusting the written and un-written rules.

As Chota achieves glory it is sad to realize the adoration by the crowds was based on his ability to kill without mercy - I understand nations are created, built and maintained by war - Libya being the only exception in all of history - and to win we need to support those who fight which does mean accepting brutality to other's - this is confusing and beyond me today...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #131 on: September 29, 2018, 04:11:39 PM »
What wonderful posts. I'm just fascinated by what we're finding in this unusual story. An adventure in ideas and human perplexities. I've fallen behind in my reading somewhat, with being out and about and just busy with a lot of things. Your provocative posts remind me how much I'm missing.

Most amazing of all is the splendid architcture in the writer's narrative style. With no centre at all. She's all over the place with this one. That certainly adds to its fascination.

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #132 on: September 29, 2018, 04:13:04 PM »
Wondeful, Barb, for coming through that mishap with the bomb.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #133 on: September 29, 2018, 04:52:21 PM »
ah yes Jonathan, the bombs  ;)  :D
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #134 on: September 29, 2018, 04:55:26 PM »


"Caïques glided along the waters of the Golden Horn"
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #135 on: September 29, 2018, 05:06:43 PM »
A Thirsty Man Near the River - by Rumi (1207 - 1273)

Silent River

Once there was a huge wall near a silent river that flew rapidly through the valleys. Then a thirsty man appeared behind the wall. But the wall was so huge that he could have neither managed to climb the wall nor torn it down. Poor man was fluttering like a fish that was already out of the water. He should have reached the water to quench his thirst but that was impossible because of the wall.

Suddenly he broke apart a piece of stone from the wall and threw it to the river over the huge wall. The stone piece splashed the water and made a sound that can be heard from anywhere. The river was so silent that when he heard the water splash, it was more than an ordinary sound. It sounds like a song or like a poem to man. Then the man broke apart more pieces from the wall and started to throw them through the river to listen this lovely song.

Days later, while the man kept throwing stone pieces through the river, suddenly river started to talk and said, “Oh poor man, why do you throw stones to me although you know that you can not reach my water?“ 

Then the man said to the river, “Oh generous river, i know that i can not reach you but this give me hope if i throw some stones to your water. Because with every stone i broke apart, i know that the wall is getting lower. And more importantly, your sound of water that spreading all over the nature gives live to human beings. Nature comes alive and celebrates the spring after hearing your sound of water. Now i am asking to you, why do not i throw more stones ?“
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #136 on: September 29, 2018, 05:10:28 PM »
Sugar Sculpture

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #137 on: September 29, 2018, 05:15:50 PM »
hahaha this is cute and wild and funny - a cartoon about Sherbet and Istanbul

https://www.weloveist.com/ottoman-sherbet
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #138 on: September 29, 2018, 05:30:50 PM »
well am I glad I looked this up -

Cadger - v. "to beg" (1812), "to get by begging" (1848), cadger "itinerant dealer with a pack-horse," mid-15c., which is perhaps from early 14c. cadge "to fasten, to tie".

According to the book, The Jews of the Ottoman Empire, there were many Jewish artisans in the Ottoman cities that included; Iron forgers, smiths, wheelwrights, coach builders, sail makers, rope makers, expert sailors and fishermen, painters, shoemakers, hide processors, workers of precious metals, locksmiths, masons and lime burners.

Lime kilns date back as far as 10,000 B.C. in Galilee, Israel, where the oldest known kiln for burning limestone was discovered in the Ha Yonim cave.

Original limestone were crumbles of calcium oxide (CaO ), known as “quick lime. While calcium oxide could be used to spread as a fertilizer, more often it was carefully combined with water to create calcium hydroxide (CaOH2) or “hydrated lime.”

This end product of the lime-burning process had three major uses. It could be applied to “sweeten” soils by raising the pH value to lower acidity, which made nutrients easier to absorb. It could also be used to make whitewash, which was used as a protective coating. Perhaps most frequently, though, the calcium hydroxide was used to make a slurry that could be used as a mortar with the addition of animal hair as a binder, or to make concrete.

Hadith - a collection of traditions containing sayings of the prophet Muhammad that, with accounts of his daily practice (the Sunna), constitute the major source of guidance for Muslims apart from the Koran.

bagnios a brothel.

Kadi   (in Islamic countries) a judge.

Demotika under Ottoman rule—was probably captured by the Ottoman commander Hadji Ilbeg. It soon became the seat of the Ottoman court under Murad I, until the conquest of nearby Adrianople a few years later. 

It nevertheless remained a "favorite resort of early Ottoman rulers" due to its rich hunting grounds even after the capital moved to Adrianople and Constantinople.

As such the city was rebuilt, with the Byzantine walls repaired and a royal palace constructed, and beautified, an effect still evident in 1443, when the French traveler Bertrandon de la Broquiere visited it.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #139 on: September 29, 2018, 06:26:55 PM »
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #140 on: September 29, 2018, 08:39:47 PM »
"Every artisan and artist enters into a covenant with the divine."

Which begs the question, what is the reason, the purpose of art.

"Art is everything that is made by the human hand and has something in common with creativity and imagination. That could be a painting, a piece of music, a book, a building but also just a piece of furniture. If a piece of art is pure beauty depends on the eye of the beholder... Art is an expression of the human experience.

The goal of art is not to simplify and beautify everything. The goal of art is not to entertain us. The real goal of art is to show us the way to another world. To the world which helps us to purify our souls. As Mateo Arias once said: “Art is an expression of the eternal. It comes from a different place.“

"Literature is an art form - as we read we are artists using our analytical and critical thinking, the art of the logical and illogical, the art of reasoning, but always, an art."


Therefore, if we apply Sinan's wisdom we can ask ourselves if, as we read and discuss have we made a covenant with the divine. Had we thought reading literature is as much an artistic endeavor as writing or painting, dancing or gardening so that we can enter and show another world?

Reading further, if Architecture is a conversation with God and reading literature is an art form then, we too are having a conversation with God as we analyze, critically think, use our power of reasoning - we too are touching the center of the Universe

Whoa - gives a different picture to reading - makes reading a valuable activity rather than something we downgrade as whiling away time on a rainy afternoon.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #141 on: September 29, 2018, 09:15:48 PM »
Ogier Ghiselin de Busbecq:The Turkish Letters, 1555-1562

https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/1555busbecq.asp
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #142 on: September 29, 2018, 09:30:07 PM »


Süleymaniye Mosque - Melchior Lorichs
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #143 on: September 29, 2018, 09:39:26 PM »
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #144 on: September 29, 2018, 09:58:45 PM »
Shah Tahmasp I was an influential Shah of Iran,
who enjoyed the longest reign of
any member of the Safavid dynasty.
He was the son and successor of Ismail I.
He came to the throne aged ten in 1524 and
came under the control of the Qizilbash (Shi'i militant group)
who formed the backbone of the Safavid Empire.

The Safavid dynasty was one of the most
significant ruling dynasties of Iran,
often considered the beginning of modern Iranian history.
The Safavid shahs ruled over one of
the Gunpowder Empires (see link in heading)


History of Iran: Safavid Empire
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/safavids/safavids.php
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

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“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #146 on: September 29, 2018, 11:47:37 PM »


A bedestan is a covered market usually for haberdashery and craftsmanship, built in Ottoman Empire and their design is based on the design of the mosques. A bedestan, in the most basic definition, is the central building of the commercial part of the town.

A bedestan: The Ottoman precursor to the safety deposit box
https://www.dailysabah.com/feature/2016/04/18/bedesten-the-ottoman-precursor-to-the-safety-deposit-box
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #147 on: September 30, 2018, 01:22:12 AM »


Basilica Information
http://stpetersbasilica.info/
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #148 on: September 30, 2018, 02:14:44 AM »
I was no longer going to share on these pages every quote that said something to me but this one I cannot pass

Greed puts gratitude to sleep.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

hats

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #149 on: September 30, 2018, 06:55:20 AM »
Can't resist these photographs and your thoughts about The Architect's Apprentice by Elif Shafak. The cover of the book is indeed very striking. So I am slowly reading comments and links. I am listening and watching one of the links on YouTube. Boy, it's fascinating. I've not finished it yet. Thanks for allowing me to lurk or do whatever it is I'm doing. Good morning, Happy Sunday.

Frybabe

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #150 on: September 30, 2018, 07:36:06 AM »
Morning Hats, et.al. I also am reduced to lurking; the book is back a t the library. Actually I am finding the posts more interesting than the book, what I read of it. I have been watching an old (1994) series called Ancient Warriors. The next episode up is on on war elephants. i watch on on the Janissaries early this week.

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #151 on: September 30, 2018, 11:44:10 AM »
Hi, Hats, it's good to know you're with us.  If I'm not careful, I'll join the honorable lurkers, as I'm way behind, racing Jonathan for farthest back, trying to avoid the death spiral one gets into where it's never possible to catch up, and the things you think of to say are already ancient history so you don't say them.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #152 on: September 30, 2018, 11:58:55 AM »
will another day help Pat - we can postpone starting the next section till at least Tuesday if you think that would help - In fact yes, why don't we do that - I will make the change now - you may not be completely caught up but a bit further anyhow  - some are barreling ahead so it is a bit difficult to gauage and Frybabe has already returned the book and so everyone is all over the place.

OK we postpone the next section till Tuesday and use Tuesday as our change over day.

So glad to know you are also reading along Hats - quite a tale that hits all sorts of truths and individual buttons.

Hit me as I was getting to bed last night - this book is reminding me of the Harry Potter books - she too used real personalities for some of her characters and where the Harry Potter story was more fantasy and this is not there is something about how the story is organized and told that reminds me of how J. K. Rowling wrote the Harry Potter books.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #153 on: September 30, 2018, 12:18:11 PM »
Thanks, Barb.  It will help.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #154 on: September 30, 2018, 12:25:54 PM »
Ok just changed this week to Tuesday  and left the others - this coming section we have broken into two parts - to recap, the first few days we did 18 pages and then the next week we read 59 pages and then last week's section was a whopping 98 pages

This coming week, that will start on Tuesday, we are reading 79 pages - less than this week but more than the first section - now if y'all would like even more time please let us know - we are not in a race and to finish up mid October is fine but if we need more time, so we schedule through towards the end of October.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #155 on: September 30, 2018, 12:59:39 PM »
Hats, Frybabe, Jonathan, and PatH., it is nice to see you posting, lurking, or what ever you choose to do.  I'm sorry to hear you have fallen behind in the reading sections.  I always look forward to your insightful post.

Barb, Tuesday works for me.  I don't mind changing the discussion schedule to help others catch up.  I too have been busy with my granchildren's sports, soccer, volleyball and cross country, five days out of my week, not to mention other things going on. 

It's been a pretty surprising book so far for me.  The protagonist seems to be learning life lessons as he enters his teen/adult life.  Jahan, like Chota, are coming of age, and puberty is difficult for both.  Poor Chota had no female elephant to ease his hormonal woes, and Jahan has been approached by an adult male causing him fear.  The female lady of the night (I will refer to in kind) comes into their tent and has open sex with an older man, while they ridicule and laugh at Jahan's innocence.  The Princess has married, leaving Jahan with is fantasies rolling around in his head.  Chota was lucky to finally have a female elephant brought to him to relieve his angry nature.  Oh how difficult it is, when hormones take over animal and human.

Barb, thank you for all the pics, links etc.  I've never read, nor watched Harry Potter, so I have no idea what the comparisons are you speak of, with this book and Harry Potter.   
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #156 on: September 30, 2018, 02:43:13 PM »
Bellamaire - glad you are OK with our slowing down the discussion - your posts have been full of personal examination and wisdom - this book seems to touch all sorts of inner truths doesn't it.

I loved when you shared this --- "The Holy Grail is traditionally thought to be the cup that Jesus Christ drank from at the Last Supper and that Joseph of Arimathea used to collect Jesus's blood at his crucifixion. From ancient legends to contemporary movies, the Holy Grail has been an object of mystery and fascination for centuries."

That bit kicked off for me another viewpoint reading the book - thanks.

I loved Jahan's observation when he says there are two kinds of Temples built - those that reach out t the sky and those that wish to bring the sky closer to the ground - I'm thinking that is like saying a micro and a macro view of the universe and then I think that maybe this search for the Holy Grail that is the subject of so many stories is like the macro search for the center of our universe where some of us are content with a micro search from our own heart and soul.

(Still have not got the way the heart affects the soul and what the function of either are to behavior - ah so - maybe the author has more wisdom or maybe one of these real live characters will say something that helps me clear that up - hope springs eternal  ;) )
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #157 on: September 30, 2018, 09:26:17 PM »
'A pretty surprising book.' You are so right on that, Bellamarie. And Barb makes the suggestion that it might be helpful to see the book as an Ottoman, Renaissance Harry Potter. Yes indeed.

Barb, I think you'll find an answer of sorts regarding behavior at the very end of the next section. Yes, I'm caught up in my reading and liking the book more all the time. Along with your wonderful links this is turning into an extravagant read. Not at all what I anticipated...much, much more. We may never get to the centre, but what a galactic, down to earth ride.

Nice to hear from you, hats.

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #158 on: September 30, 2018, 11:16:18 PM »
Jonathan,  Glad to hear you have caught up. 

Barb, Yes, I like your macro/micro outlook on finding the/our centre of the universe.  I'm still giving the heart and soul affecting behavior some thought.  I'm sure it will come to us as we read along.

This certainly is not your average book on architecture, that's for sure.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #159 on: October 01, 2018, 12:26:15 PM »
October 1st - this year is just moving along - now we are close to holiday season - cannot get myself going about Halloween this year - thinking on it Halloween is really just All Soul's day that is a Christian holy day - I wonder if there are any celebrations that accompany holy days in 15th century Istanbul.

Tip - if you have not looked at the cute children's cartoon about Sherbet - the glories of eating or drinking Sherbet will be included in the next section that we start to discuss tomorrow -

Here is a great link about Sherbet still as popular today in Turkey - which evidently is a drink where as we think of Sherbet in a frozen desert form. 
https://www.dailysabah.com/food/2016/07/11/traditional-turkish-sherbets-to-cool-you-down-this-summer

Who would have guessed - evidently Sherbet in Turkey is very different than the Sherbet we buy from the frozen food cases. 

Turkish Sherbet is more like a fruit juice.


Tükenmez is a sustainable home version of the kind of sherbet you used to buy in the street from hawkers with tanks on their backs – still seen occasionally in some parts of eastern Turkey. The street sherbets were often made with tamarind or liquorice root, while the home version uses medlars.

To get fermentation started, you need to keep the chickpeas in the water for at least five days. The liquid will continue to ferment gently once the chickpeas are removed, and you can keep refreshing the drink with water for three months. If it starts to taste like vinegar, use it as vinegar and make another batch.

Looks like medlars is a fruit that tastes like cinnamon applesauce.



Good grief here is an article about Sherbet called Faloodeh that is made with cooked vermicelli and the explanation says that "One of the world’s earliest known frozen desserts, this 2,500-year-old treat is still a summertime favorite in Iran today." And here we go the architects/engineers and builders made all this possible "Persian engineers developed a type of massive, domed ice house called a yakhchal."

The Ice pit used in ancient times where foods were kept cold in the desert


https://www.atlasobscura.com/foods/faloodeh-sorbet-noodles

This is a quick minute and a half youtube showing n Ottoman recipe how to make a quick un-fermented peach sherbet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYY38THkTRU


“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe