Author Topic: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion  (Read 33269 times)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #280 on: October 15, 2018, 11:43:06 AM »


Tartışmalarımıza Hoş Geldiniz
(Welcome to our Discussion)

A historical novel, brimming with all the intrigue, romance, beauty, power, pageantry and brutality of the Sixteenth century told through the eyes of Jahan, the apprentice to Sinan, the Architect and Mahout to the white elephant, gift to the Salton.

“I work to honour the divine gift. Every artisan and artist enters into a covenant with the divine.” Sinan, Architect for three Sultans


Discussion Schedule:
  • Mon. & Tues., September 17 & 18.....To page 18
  • Tuesday, September 18...........Before the Master
  • Tuesday, September 25...........The Master
  • Tuesday October 2...................The Dome - to page 256
  • Sunday October 7....................The Dome - page 257 to 331
  • Thursday October 11................After the Master

Discussion Leaders: BarbStAubrey

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #281 on: October 15, 2018, 12:16:01 PM »
We've had a 45 degree drop in Temperature overnight - rain and to go even lower during the day - busy trying to winterize -  wait and you see - will just about get everything battened down and next week the temp will be back up to 89 and 90 again... sheesh...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #282 on: October 16, 2018, 03:01:30 PM »
we are experiencing Lots of flooding - the various rivers are going on a rampage - the Llano, Colorado, Guadalupe, Brazos

I got curious and evidently Istanbul also floods and just did in September

And then I wondered and sure enough it snows every year in Istanbul


“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #283 on: October 16, 2018, 04:07:54 PM »
Barb,  I saw on Facebook this morning where my daughter in law was asking if her cousin in Texas was okay from the flooding.  I thought about you, and lo and behold I come in and see your pics.  Are you going to be okay where you are living?  Be safe my friend!
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #284 on: October 16, 2018, 05:05:50 PM »
So far my roof is holding and the water coming down the hill is not piling up at my garage door - we have had weeks of rain and now this - it appears the entire Hill Country, a 3 county area is coming to Austin by way of the rivers and lakes... exaggeration but bridges are washed away, broken up homes, propane tanks, boats, docks all rushing for Austin - the dams are catching most of it and the work to clear the dams is ongoing - what a mess...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #285 on: October 16, 2018, 07:29:18 PM »
I am so sorry to hear this.  Please stay safe.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #286 on: October 16, 2018, 10:14:35 PM »
Question posed by Shafak
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #287 on: October 17, 2018, 06:33:54 PM »
What a striking image, Barb. Life as a high-wire act. What is the question?

It leads right into what I'm going to propose. I went out to find Life After Google, just the sort of thing I'd like to read, to keep up with the times. Not available. Sold out. But I did get the most enthralling book: Glittering Images, A Journey Through Art from Egypt to Star Wars, by Camille Paglia. Twenty-nine images, each with three or four pages of commentary.  How about that for November? One a day.

Do you remember the fun we had, discussing her collection of poems, Break, Blow, Burn? Forty-three of them. From a sonnet by Shakespeare to Joni Mitchell's "Woodstock. I still remember coming across the border and declaring my purchases in the U.S. "Does this incite to violence", I was asked. I was pleased to inform him it was from a sonnet addressed to God.

One of the images is a life-size icon (mosaic) of John Chrysostom in the Hagia Sophia Museum in Istanbul. Another is an image of Monet's Garden at Giverny.

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #288 on: October 18, 2018, 11:35:13 AM »
Jonathan,  Good interpretation of the picture.... Life as a high wire act. 

I also thought about, Life is a balancing act.  Yes, so what is the question?  And what are on the ends of each of the poles?  One looks like a brain and the other looks like a body.  So is it, "Mind over Matter?"

WOW!  So you could not purchase Life After Google because it was sold out!  Now, I will go on my own hunt for it.  I am all about wanting to stay up on technology in the future as well.  I don't recall discussing Break, Blow, Burn?  How funny being asked if it incited violence?  Lucky for you, they believed you, or you could have been another Gentleman is Moscow...... lolol
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PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #289 on: October 18, 2018, 03:18:24 PM »
One of those blobs is a brain, the other a heart, so I guess the question is how to balance the two in your life.  An eternal problem.

Goodness, it was 2005 when we discussed Break, Blow, Burn.  Time flies.  It was a really enjoyable discussion.  I wonder how Paglia will do talking about images instead of words.

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #290 on: October 18, 2018, 11:52:38 PM »
Thanks PatH., my computer was acting up and would not allow me to bring the pic in closer so I could only imagine the heart as a person.  Yes, a balancing act between the heart and brain. 

So I guess this discussion has come to an end, since we have turned to the pic rather than the story, so I will again, thank Barb for being our moderator, and all of you who participated in the discussion.  It's not the kind of book that I'll keep forefront for long, but I did enjoy the story and discussion.

I hope Barb is okay down in Texas, the river is still rising and causing much flooding.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #291 on: October 19, 2018, 05:59:14 AM »
Sorry folks the flooding is taking over - have a couple of friends who we helped to get as much removed from their house - I'm OK and my house is OK - I've friends up near Marble Falls and then others in the San Gabriel flood plain who had to leave although, the flooding was not as bad as expected on the San Gabriel - we have not seen this many flood gates open on the dam in town since 1957.

Yes Pat, brain versus heart - the balance as we walk a tight rope - reminded me of the early part of the book, which I have still not found the answer as to how our soul affects our behavior - all I've read so far does say we act based on feelings or from our heart and only engage our brain if we get in the habit of doing that - I have not found yet anything that explains how our soul is in the mix -

Sounds like a great book and nice idea for a project of a daily read Jonathan - not sure I'm up for another discussion this fall - maybe someone else would do it - found the book on Amazon and it does look like something I would enjoy exploring - however, right now I am not thinking beyond helping friends in need

Bellamarie, yes it was a good read wasn't it - as always you add so much to our discussions - seeing current news that showed a forest near Istanbul is sure giving me an entirely different picture of what was Constantinople of the Ottoman Empire - I imagined a more barren land - never imagined forests and mountains but that is the reality - Did you have a picture in your mind while reading of what the area surrounding the city looked like?

There are so many off shoots of curiosities this book prompted - I do not know about y'all but I am no curious to learn more about the break between Rome and Constantinople and what the difference was and is between the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic versions of  Christianity during Byzantine's time of the 'new' Rome. I'm also needing to track down the Islamic tribes that lived in Constantinople - that much I had learned that the Islamic Arabs and Persians were organized by tribes - not sure how the Islamic's in the Ottoman Empire were organized. 

OK woke up - too tired to sleep - need to get myself rested and together again - the stress is not helping but we do what we have to do... 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #292 on: October 19, 2018, 04:38:59 PM »
Oh Barb I am so sorry to hear your friends are effected by the floods.  I am glad to hear you are okay.  I am not up to another book discussion either, maybe after the New Year we can tackle something. 

In the meantime, I am beginning a new book called, The PostMistress by Sarah Blake.  It is 1940, and radio announcer Frankie Blake, reporting from war-torn Europe knows its just a matter of time before America enters the fray. Meanwhile in Cape Cod, newlywed Emma Fitch is bereft since her physician husband left to help. She doesn't know about the letter he gave postmistress Iris James, or that Frankie, too, has missive she carries with her until the day fate lands her on Emma's doorstep.

I just got home from attending one more funeral, so since March there has been nine people die.  I'm not liking this at all.  I need an escape into a fictional book that does not require much thinking.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #293 on: October 21, 2018, 11:17:53 AM »
Barb, I'm so sorry you have to deal with flooding.  You're a good friend to help your friends.

I've been having internet problems that make it hard to do long posts without losing them.  Just lost even this short post.  Give me one more day to try to say my last bit before pulling the plug on me.

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #294 on: October 21, 2018, 12:47:22 PM »
PatH.,  I have been having internet problems as well.  I have my provider coming out tomorrow to check my connections and wires.  I have wifi throughout my house and now when I am in my bedroom I have no connections.  It can be very frustrating.  Can't wait to hear your last thoughts on the book.  Just a little bit of advice....when writing a post, stop and copy it from time to time in case you should lose it. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #295 on: October 21, 2018, 02:10:48 PM »
Two days and no word from Barb. Our thoughts are with you. How fortunate that the flooding held off until we were through our read. Thanks, you were brilliant as our DL. The same to all of you. What a pleasure to be in such fine company.

Pat, I meant to hold you to your promise of a week ago to post something about a hidden theme. It seemed to me there were many things hinted at in the book that I took as part of its architecture. Quite elaborate. But that's a feature of longevity, isn't it?

Bellamarie, what a fountain of ideas you are in our discussions. I wonder about your interest in artificial intelligence when you have such a good supply of the real thing.

Thanks to all.






BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #296 on: October 21, 2018, 03:36:36 PM »
Pat we have all been looking forward to your sharing - as Jonathan shares there is so many themes hinted at in this story - talk about a 1000 and 1 Nights - if this is an example of stories written by authors who live in this part of the world they are like never ending fibers that each is only the start of unwinding a ball of yarn.

Yes, Jonathan, thank goodness the worst of the rising water came as we were finishing our discussion - unbelievable - yesterday was supposed to be finally a day of clearing but that dark heavy sky was with us and the rain continued - That old 1939 movie keeps coming to mind that I saw as a child - a black and white about rains flooding in India - looked it up and it appears the movie was remade in the 1950s and renamed The Rains of Ranchipur which was an expression used in the original move - I just remember seeing the early version with people being carried by the water and everything it the path of the water being ripped from its foundation. Reality no way would the force of a flood carry anyone.

Well my house has not been ripped from its foundation but with all my sacks of soil, I could not keep water out of my garage - no longer up to digging the trench deep enough along the front of the house so the rain hopping the curb and coming down the driveway has somewhere to go other than in my garage. Thank goodness there is a step up from the garage floor to the house - then a quick piling of some of my friends things on a large piece of plywood I quickly set on a pair of metal horses I had in the garage -

Finally today the sun - the actual sun - it has been weeks since we have seen the sun - Alejandra, the young boy next door mowed my lawn and had to stop over and over since everything is still so wet the mower would get clogged with wet grass - reminded me of this story - out of the blue and in the middle of all the bustle this week some aspect of this story would come to mind and I would stop, look up for a bit trying to remember the words. Interesting how in my head I can actually see pictures of many of the scenes. 

Bellamarie the issues you are having with your connection is such the reminder of how we have all become dependent on technology - we order online rather than put up with crowded highways and crowded stores often with sales representatives that cannot even subtract a number from a dollar or know their inventory to be of assistance - just too easy now to order online - and then we talk to distant family on line as well as, sending a quick message to those who live nearby - I don't know about you but I even do my bill paying online - did away with newspaper delivery so many years ago now - actually, thinking about it, what I miss is of all things, the comics - hmmm wonder if that is the matter with many of us - no comics to break the drama of the moment.

Oh and the Sunday funnies - a whole section of one cartoon series after the other - what bliss we had and never realized it - perhaps it is the comics that kept us moving forward when life became thorny - hmmm we need comics.

In fact some of this story I could almost see as a comic strip - not the hahaha kind but the introspection of The Family Circus, or Charlie Brown, or Calvin and Hobbes - no meanness, or blatant one sided political party support, or making in fun of people - yep, that is what I miss - could see some of the exchange that Jahan had with Chota as a comic-strip - for sure the scene where he danced for the Gypsy's amusement in order to secure their elephant, playing the pimp for his beloved Chota -

I have never seen a white elephant - even a photo of a white elephant - have any of y'all ever seen a white elephant? Trying to wrack my memory I do not think I ever saw a white elephant in a newsreel that included any of the British royalty in India.

Notice Jonathan in Camille Paglia's book on art she does have information about the Hagia Sophia as one of her esteemed pieces of art to consider - will our lives be so changed that her book will not be of interest after the holiday season? I hope not because where I could not tackle it now I would look forward to it to get through January and early February. I could even see doing it while the winter selection of a book was started so that this could be a daily reprieve from all the drama of the day.

We really need to say something in our Senior learn library so folks can see if it is available in their local library. I'm thinking though lets wait till we have the next few months formulated. It is still only October.     

Well I think I need to close the garage door that has been wide open helping to dry things and then go in and take a nap - drying out and getting rest are my only aims in life just now ;) - although I am excited Pat to hear what gem you have that we overlooked - fun...

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #297 on: October 22, 2018, 12:23:24 PM »
Barb,  So good to hear from you!  Thank heavens your house did not get flooded.  I'm happy to hear you finally have sunshine.  Isn't it funny how we seem to take the sun for granted, until there is not sign of it for days and days?

Sunday comics, maybe we do need more comics in our lives to remind us to laugh out loud.  When I have my grand kids overnight they like to watch certain kid shows, and just listening in the background I was appalled at what the writers have put into children's comic shows..... political views, gender, bullying, fighting over who likes who, same sex marriage, etc., etc.  I know this world has gone politically correct crazy, but to place this type of mature subject matter in cartoon shows where children have no clue how to understand it is to me unthinkably irresponsible.  Parents truly better be monitoring their Saturday morning cartoons today, because if you have certain family faith/moral//values you want to instill in your children, then certain shows would not fit your criteria for your little ones. 

Jonathan,  As a person who began technology in our grade school back in 1984, I am all for advancement in technology.  As far as Artificial Intelligence, I plan to keep a close watch and learn as much as possible about the direction it is taking us.  One thing I am certain of...... it is impossible for any machine to do any task without the input from a human being.  It takes humans to create the programs for the machines to be able to compute the information fed into it, to come to certain equations.  One thing also I can point out, is that every type of machine regardless what it is, will at one time or another get a glitch, or become outdated, needing new information or parts to operate successfully.  My internet has been acting up lately, as I mentioned above.  My cable man came today and found many issues causing me to lose my wifi connections.  Most he was able to correct, but one issue is something he could not fix, and that is what they call, "dead spots."  A dead spot can occur in your home, office, factory, etc., for no known reason, and it will be impossible for your device to receive the bandwave to run your device.  Apparently my side of the bed NOW has a "dead spot" that has never been there before.  He has worked for the cable company for 25 years, and when asked what causes this, he has no explanation and no fix for it.  He said, "Looks like you will have to switch to your husband's side of the bed if you want to use your computer or ipad." I'm not a person who likes hearing, there is no fix.  For me, there should always be a fix, so.... artificial intelligence is as intelligent as the person who programs, and enters the data, and the hardware and software to run it.  Don't stop using your brain, or gathering more information on technology, but like Barb pointed out, the Sunday funnies makes for a good laughter in our lives, especially when our devices are not working properly.

Jonathan,
Quote
I wonder about your interest in artificial intelligence when you have such a good supply of the real thing.

Thank you, what kind words.  I am honored to be among the rest of you members, between the lot of us, we do make for great conversations. 

PatH.,  We are all awaiting with bated breath to hear your final thoughts on the theme in the book.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #298 on: October 22, 2018, 01:33:32 PM »
A dead spot in you house - use technology from your husband's side of the bed???!!!??? Sorry I think he was straight faced pulling your leg - now a dead spot in the city happens according to how the towers are set up but within a house - I guess you have to look at what stops radio signals but whatever stops them I cannot see they drew a line down the middle of your bed and you are now sleeping beyond the pale ;)

Oh lordy - of course when a workman cannot fix something they are in the habit of figuring out how a women will either be at fault of have to take the consequences.

Wouldn't you know ONE DAY - ONE DAY - of sunshine - ONE DAY - because sure enough if we are not overcast expecting more rain this afternoon. and the mosquitoes - I swear they are multiplying in our walls and light sockets - as cold as it felt for us having gone within an hour from 90 degrees to 54 degrees and not been above 67 since - except for yesterday - we may feel chilled and need to turn on the furnace but it is not cold enough to kill of mosquitoes. I've taken to lighting a citronella candle while I am on the computer and in the kitchen when I cook and after being bitten last night I guess I need to keep one lite near my bed. Well no use complaining - it is what it is... better go order a couple of more candles and maybe those hanging disks - of course I could fill white balloons with water and hang them on the eves of the house but they are in the house and just do not see how to hang water filled balloons except on chandlers and that is only over the table. Well fun and games - hate using deet - oh I know forgot till I was writing this - I need to tie some dryer sheets in the buttonhole on my shirt - of course - and I even have some lavender scented ones.

I do not know how they could stand it reading how those who took care of the animals slept on pads with blankets full of lice and I think the story said ticks but maybe not - just the lice and you know there had to be mosquitoes - oh and the flies - bigger animals like horses have lots of flies - I wonder if they had some secret potion to take care of the itch.

Come to think on it - I do not remember anytime in this story where we hear of Jahan or the workmen bowing in prayer during the call to prayers or Jahan attending services in any of these mosques except that one time when he prostrated himself on the floor after the mosque was completed. I do not recall but I do not think his religion was mentioned - I'm thinking he was not a Muslim - I wonder if he was Hindu and there was just no place or other Hindus to join.

Hope you can share with us Pat - sounds like you may have to break your thoughts up into a couple of sentences a post - that is fine we will have a series of post after post after post - maybe a dozen or more posts one or two sentences long - there is always a first time for anything ;) 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #299 on: October 22, 2018, 05:24:50 PM »
Barb, 
Quote
Oh lordy - of course when a workman cannot fix something they are in the habit of figuring out how a women will either be at fault of have to take the consequences.


Oh my  heavens you gave me a great laugh.  My hubby was only home at the ending of this cable guy's work, so he didn't get to really see the interaction going on between him and myself. 

First off, he began and ended calling me, "Lady."  Okay, I told myself, I did not offer my name, nor did I know his. 
Secondly, I followed him to the basement in case he needed to ask me anything.  Well, he first asks, "Where are my splinters?"  Hmmm.... knowing a little about the cable lines and connections, since I always watched former cable guys, and I would relocate the cables to reach our new big screen TV we mounted on the wall, and moved our computer desk, I instantly told him where I knew the lines should be.  NOPE, he was not going to listen to me.  I distinctly walked to the very spot where I knew the cable line came in from outside, and told him the cable box in located just outside this wall.  NOPE, he asked where my circuit box was at.  I showed him and he continued to remove ceiling tiles searching for where the cable line would come in from outside.  Again, I told him I am standing where I am certain it is.  FINALLY, he walks over, moves the ceiling tile and sees the cable. 
Thirdly, He asked me to take my ipad to the upstairs bedroom and let him know how many bars were showing, so he could tell the strength of the wifi bandwidth.  I did as he asked, came down and told him, "One bar in the corner where I sleep, and two bars as I leave my bedroom."  He replied, "Well you can't expect it to be everywhere."  I stated, "But up until just a few weeks ago I have always had it everywhere with NO problems, why would there now be a dead spot?"  No explanation. 

He decided to move the cable box out of the basement and up to my living room.  I told him there is an old outlet behind my movable fireplace.  I went to take a vase off to pull the fireplace out, and he stopped me in my tracks and said, "Wait there might be a better spot."  I showed him two different prior outlets in my kitchen, one behind my china cabinet, and went to scoot it out, he said, "Boy you sure to like to move things."  He didn't want to put it in the kitchen, and decided to put it in a corner in the living room where I had to move my sofa table.  As he was finishing up, I checked my ipad and computer and it said, NO CONNECTION!  I told him and he said, "Lady you sure are impatient, don't jump ahead of me, you have to give it a chance to connect."  A few minutes go by,  NO CONNECTION.  I hear him back over by the cables say, "What the hell?  Did I use the wrong cable?" He goes back down to the basement and disconnects a cable, and connects the other one.  Instant connection on my ipad and computer.  I say, "Maybe we better check my hubby's computer down in the basement too."  His response, "That should be just fine."  I went down and he followed me,  NO CONNECTION! I told him that he disconnected the yellow cable that always was connected to my hubby's computer.  He said, "I have been doing this for 25 years, I know what I am doing, that has nothing to do with this.  Your husband has an old computer with Windows XP and you have the nice computer and ipad, that don't seem fair."  I said, "Well I have offered to buy my hubby a new laptop and he refuses to let me."  He said, "Well I think it's time he has a new computer, when do you plan to buy him one?" I said, "Not til Christmas, so you need to figure out why he has no wifi now."  After fiddling around for about ten minutes, I suggested he plug the yellow cord back into the computer.  He had to get a longer cord since he brought the cable box upstairs to the living room.  Lo and behold.... wifi CONNECTED!  I seriously thought I was in a Lucille Ball & Desi Arnez movie. 

He may have worked 25 years with Cable, but what he didn't know is, I not only taught computers at our school, but I troubleshooted, replaced, connected and repaired all the  twenty computers, after a tech guy was nice enough to show me exactly what to do to save our school money.  I was my step father's right hand helper building additions and repairing plumbing and electrical in our older home.  Moving cables and connecting computers in MY home for the past 40 years has been an old hat.  As long as there is nothing wrong on the cable end, I can figure out the rest.  As for the "Dead Spot."  I was not going to argue with him, and waste any more time of my day.  I told my hubby, we may have to switch spots in the bed if I want to use my devices when we go to bed.  I do know my son has what they were told a "dead spot" in their house as well.  But for years we have never had one, so why now?

If he took me for a dummy, or a helpless woman, believe me, once he left he realized, NOPE not this woman!  Oh the joys of life!  It's just one more thing I add to my list of what can go wrong this year, in this house.   :) ::) ::)  Thought ya'll would get a kick out of this fiasco. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #300 on: October 22, 2018, 06:03:13 PM »
Laugh and a half Bellamarie- this guy's ego was so big he could not even listen - my oh my - I've run into that kind of guy and often wonder if that is they way they are at home or because they are unhappy at home they gin up all this guff to give out when they are on the job. All you can do is laugh - no matter how upsetting they never change and so it is either a tragedy or a comedy - They used to have plays that were a comedy of manners, now I think life, as a play, is more about a comedy of errors - ah so - such is life here of late...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #301 on: October 22, 2018, 07:12:17 PM »
I agree, I was thinking what his wife must have to deal with.  He kept saying, "We don't want to upset your husband."  I finally said, "My husband is a pretty easy going guy, not much upsets him." 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #302 on: October 23, 2018, 03:01:51 PM »
What a hoot! What a great story, Bellamarie. There's a lot of good theater in your encounter with Mr. Fixit, that should be staged and taken to Broadway. It'll be a hit.

I'll admit my illiteracy in all this high-tech stuff, but very eager to learn.  Let's do the Gilder book. Looking around the house I've found a couple of things on the subject. Like an outdated book on Google, published in 2005. What a great subtitle: How Google and its Rivals Rewrote the Rules of Business and Transformed Our Culture. How quickly things change. Now it's Life After Google!! And here's a university publication I received recently: The Future of Artificial Intelligence.

Just look at that. Inside it tells me: 'This magazine was generously supported by members of the MaRS ecosystem that are making Toronto a global hub for artificial intelligence.

Can you believe it. I'm at the center of the universe.

Barb, I'm sorry to hear about the plagues in Texas. Floods and infestation of insects. May you be spared the others that were so calamitous for ancient Egypt.  How nice to hear that the sun has come out for you. Amazing grace.

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #303 on: October 23, 2018, 07:54:29 PM »
Bellamarie, I had a big laugh over your story too, but it sure wasn't funny for you at the time.  Of course he couldn't take a woman seriously, and by the time it was obvious you were always right, he couldn't lose face.  I don't have your detailed knowledge of computer systems, but I'm pretty handy with a whole lot of household repairs, and have figured out ways to get repairmen to respect me.  Don't think they would have worked on this guy though.

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #304 on: October 24, 2018, 01:09:13 PM »
Jonathan
Quote
'This magazine was generously supported by members of the MaRS ecosystem that are making Toronto a global hub for artificial intelligence.

Can you believe it. I'm at the center of the universe.

By GOLLY Jonathan, you have finally discovered what Jhan, Michelangelo, Sinan and all of Istanbul have been searching for..... no wonder they could not find "the center of the universe", it's in TORONTO, CANADA!!!!!

PatH., I suspect you would have held your own with this guy, although I have to tell you, he was at least 7' tall, to my 5'2. 

Barb, I hope you have figured out how to battle those darn pesky mosquitoes.  I feel badly seeing the sun every day here in Toledo, Ohio when you Texans are dealing with your rain and clouds.  Prayers, there will be sunny, dry days ahead for you.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #305 on: October 24, 2018, 02:19:12 PM »
Well, I finally pulled my thoughts together.  It was harder to write than I thought.  It isn't something new, just something we didn't emphasize.

For me, the whole story is tied together by an undercurrent that runs through it, though often low-key: the attitude of some of the architects toward their work.  Look at Sinan, Sancha, and Jahan.  They’re absorbed by their work; it dominates everything in their lives.  Partly this the absorption of someone who has a demanding, creative profession that he’s good at, but it’s more than that.  They are working for the glory of God.

Sinan, p 135:
   “If there were no hope of reward and no fear of punishment, would I work less?  I don’t believe so.  I work to honor the divine gift.  Every artisan and artist enters into a covenant with the divine.  Have you made yours?”
   Jahan made a sour face.  “I don’t understand.”
   “Let me tell you a secret,” said Sinan.  “Beneath every building we raise—it doesn’t matter whether it’s small or large—just imaging that below the foundations lies the centre of the universe.  Then you will work with more care and love.”
   Jahan pursed his lips.  “I don’t understand what that means.”.
   “You will,” said Sinan.  “Architecture is a conversation with God.  And nowhere does He speak more loudly than at the centre.”

Sancha, p 347:
   “The dome,....We should raise domes that remind people there is a God and that He is not a God of revenge and hell but of mercy and love.”

They are working in the service of God, and what they do is meant to proclaim His glory, and spread His message.

For them, the dome is the symbol of this, and it recurs often.  Jahan has his first epiphany on seeing the light of a dome, seeing the whole world as architecture, as a dome, as a guide to the center.  And as his life draws to a close, he is part of the building of another dome, perhaps the most splendid one of all.

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #306 on: October 24, 2018, 02:24:49 PM »
Bellamarie:
Quote
PatH., I suspect you would have held your own with this guy, although I have to tell you, he was at least 7' tall, to my 5'2.
Well, you're an inch taller than I am, so height had better not matter. ;)

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #307 on: October 24, 2018, 05:12:34 PM »
PatH.,  Thank you for sharing this theme you were able to continue to see running through our story. 

I did feel these men did their work with special pride, detail was so important, even if they were going to be the only one who would know if there was a special symbol they etched in one brick.  When you do your work with this pride, you know you are doing it for a greater cause. I did feel the "centre of the universe" meant something of a Biblical sense.  Sinan was not perfect, but he expected perfection from himself and his apprentices.  When you work for the Glory of God, you strive for worthiness.  I think Sinan died a happy man, knowing he worked in that presence of mind.  Throughout the story I felt as if Sinan was the in the sense of Jesus, leading his apostles to the promised land, (centre of the universe.)  I always felt the centre of the universe metaphorically meant, Heaven.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #308 on: October 25, 2018, 09:57:41 AM »
Barb, how are you faring now?  Are you having to boil your water?

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #309 on: October 25, 2018, 12:13:10 PM »
Splendid, Pat. That's what I was missing in the book and you found it. The book has everything - even a comic book aspect, as Barb points out. It certainly is a fine manual on the care and training of elephants But not enough insight into the nature of architecture, and the center of the universre that we were promised. And then, along the way, out of the blue, there is a mention of architecture as the search for the harmony in the universe, which is just as aesthetic and thought provoking. I'm charmed by the ending. The two Jahans building monuments to their lost loves.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #310 on: October 25, 2018, 05:35:35 PM »
Pat you have offered an insight that gives me pause - had to look at my todo list from this perspective - had me rearrange a few things and even changed my mindset about what I am doing at this phase in my life - thank you for sharing your insight - fabulous - part of what you saw I could even take a step further - not said buy Shafak however, "just imaging that below the foundations lies the center of the universe." I'm thinking not just in buildings but in any endeavor where we use our innate talent and trained skills. All work can be carried out as a conversation with God and also, under all of us "lies the center of the universe"

Seeing other's as speaking from that center then becomes a challenge - I would like to think all of us speak as standing on the center of the universe and then I am reminded of those in and out of the story who speak and act in ways to harm - then the balloon pops - the balloon of wanting to believe all folks are speaking and acting with "more care and love". How do we assertion if a building was raised by men and women who were engaged in a covenant with God. OR does it matter - by virtue of their association building the structure they automatically were in a conversation with God regardless they knew it or not.

I really like this line of thinking - but I am also aware I have in the past been too Pollyanna with my trust - ah so the questions of our lives... at least it is a guide that I am grateful you brought to our attention - a guide I can use to help me sort out what is important that I want to carry out with care and love.

You nailed in Bellamarie describing Sinan - he had as much influence in this story as Jahan and his elephant - special when you have a gifted person who pursues his skills and has the skills to create opportunity for others to develop their skills and also to motivate them to do their best - those are the special people aren't they. 

Jonathan great summation and the phrase "architecture as the search for the harmony in the universe," sounds like Taoism - harmony in the universe - really thought provoking as you say - and the ending does show Shafak to be as J.K. Rowling - they both researched and incorporated history in their storytelling. 

I wish good follow-up books on some of these thoughts were not so dang expensive - Baylor has a great follow-up book to further thoughts on Architecture as a discipline seeking harmony with the universe -  Architecture and Theology The Art of Place by Murray A. Rae https://www.baylorpress.com/9781481307635/

This one also looks good - Sacred Power, Sacred Space: An Introduction to Christian Architecture and Worship by Jeanne Halgren Kilde - at least the kindle version of this one is affordable.

Found this website - interesting - have not read it all but a student's essay on How Is Harmony Is Perceived In Contemporary Design Philosophy
https://www.ukessays.com/essays/philosophy/how-is-harmony-is-perceived-in-contemporary-design-philosophy-essay.php

Well I was about to give up on the sun - we were promised starting today there would be sun for a week - we have not seen the sun for 3 days in a row since August much less for an entire week - well no sun and no sun and more rain till just 10 or 15 minutes ago - after 4: in the afternoon - it goes in and out with lots of clouds in the sky - we shall see what we shall see - I think for feet and hands I will soon have green kelp -

Thanks for asking Pat - living alone I do not need that much water - my son was here yesterday and brought me a case but I was doing well - when I boiled water for my coffee I put in extra that I then put in a jar in the frig - as for dishes I only use a dinner plate in the evening - the other meals really do not require a dish except my coffee cup and so I am simply using up my dishes and letting them soak till the water is OK again and then a big general wash will take place. Looks like I'm OK - no dog or cat to worry about - just me and I'm just fine...

Think we can leave this discussion alive till next Monday and then we will archive it - so a few more days if anyone has further thoughts to share - - -
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #311 on: October 26, 2018, 03:26:52 PM »
I'm pretty sure we have exhausted ourselves on this story.  Again, thank you Barb for being our discussion lead.  I really never would have read this book on my own.  Everyone who participated kept me interested in seeing what they were seeing in this story.

I am going to go to my bookshelves, and see what book will be my next one to read.  Til our next discussion you all take care.  Barb I'll leave you with the song from the musical Annie....The sun'll come out tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow there'll be sun.....

https://youtu.be/Yop62wQH498
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #312 on: October 26, 2018, 03:41:04 PM »
 :D  ;D  8)  ::)  :-*  ;)  Thanks - love it Bellamarie  :) and what do you know the sun came out today - don't know if I can believe it - everything looks so unreal - half concerned it will only be for today but the weather says for an entire week - tra la - I think I will wait one more day to do laundry and give things a chance to dry out a bit - they expect to be able to lift the boil water mandate this weekend.

Have not driven down to the lake (actually the dammed up Colorado river) and see the tumbling rushing water moving through town - hate seeing what the water will be carrying along with it - parts of houses, bridges, docks, boats, lake side restaurants, propane tanks - thank God no people but hate seeing all that destruction and so I my just skip it...

Trying to decide if I should give this book to my grandson who has just started to study architecture - I may though find other books with photos of the various mosques and information that would appeal to a builder rather than this novel - plus there is so much in this novel I think this one I keep and will actually read again - with so many books to read I am not as willing as I was years ago to repeat read but this one was just packed with far more than a boy, his elephant and architecture.   
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #313 on: October 26, 2018, 05:47:58 PM »
Good grief!!! Texas will have to be hung out to dry. Can we send you some wash line? How many miles will you need?

BarbStAubrey

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“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #315 on: October 27, 2018, 11:47:05 AM »
Yes, we've pretty much squeezed everything out of the book.  Did you notice the last appearance of Balaban, Jahan's guardian angel who manages to show up when needed to save Jahan?  Jahan is almost a hundred, and Balaban is surely dead by now, but his lookalike is the one who orders Jahan to go to Agra, where he will finally find a bit more peace and happiness.

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #316 on: October 27, 2018, 11:50:15 AM »
Jonathan, Camille Paglia's book is waiting for me at the library.  I'll have a look and see if it would make a good discussion.

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #317 on: October 27, 2018, 02:25:17 PM »
It's a beautiful bok, Pat. It's a crash course in art appreciation How can one not get caught up in the pleasure of an aesthetic experience by learning how to look. Paglia conveys the spirit in her comment on a work by Picasso: "Picasso's Les Demoiselles d'Avignon, the most important painting in any American museum, has drawn an enormous body of commentary, but I believe I have noticed and interpreted details that others have missed.'

How much more remains to be discovered by your eyes and mine in Paglia's company?

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #318 on: October 28, 2018, 10:24:33 PM »
Ha cannot believe it - all this time and the index shows this is the PRE-discussion - funny - with all that we have discussed and learned this has been some pre-discussion hasn't it been - As you said Pat we squeezed much out of this story - We've been picking some good ones here of late however, this one just fell in our laps - I do not think it was on anyone's radar screen.

Almost tempted to read another of her books but I need to let this sit for a bit - I've one of the books spoken about in our story on my list to order after the Holidays - Vitruvius: The Ten Books on Architecture - all 10 books are in one paperback volumn for only $13 that should be interesting to see what was said hundreds of years ago about Architecture.  Also ordered a week ago Camille Paglia's book - should arrive any day now.

Well Austin is back - sun out, boiling water was lifted today and in the mid eighties where the temps belong this time of year and and and we are looking forward to a full week of weather as we expect it this time of year - Understand the Northeast is getting a brutal winter storm and it appears every area has its weather challenges -

This has been great and tomorrow it will come to an end - I'll let Jane know probably late morning and then it is up to her schedule when we are archived.

Happy Fall


“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #319 on: October 29, 2018, 10:52:24 AM »
That gives me time to thank you, Barb.  You put a lot of work into the discussion, while the waters were swirling around you.  All the links and pictures you found were important to our understanding.  And Bellamarie and Jonathan, most of the time there were only four of us, but thanks to all of us we sure had a good discussion and a good time.