Mabinogion ~ Fall-Winter BookClub Online ~ OCT. 14,2009-Feb.17,2020

[BarbStAubrey]

Join us as we Read of Strife, Struggle, the Underworld, Chivalry and the Heroic in: Chapter by Chapter Each Week Starting Monday, October 14 We eavesdrop on the innermost thoughts, the mental inheritance, of mankind. ~ Translation by Lady Charlotte Guest The Mabinogion

Schedule

October 14.......The Lady of the Fountain October 28.......Peredur the Son of Evrawc November 11....Geraint the Son of Erbin November 18....Kilhwch and Olwen November 25....The Dream of Rhonabwy December 02....Pwyll Prince of Dyved

January 06.......Branwen the Daughter of Llyr January 13.......Manawyddan the Son of Llyr January 20.......Math the Son of Mathonwy January 27.......The Dream of Maxen Wledig February 03.....The Story of Lludd and Llevelys February 10.....Taliesin

Discussion Leader: Barbara

[BarbStAubrey]

still not sure what the foot holder is - when I look it up they talk about the public stock with wooden pillars holding them up and holes for the feet - then there is a bunch of links to the medieval story of checking Mary after the birth of Christ and their hands wither trying to check and a lily showing her purity is part of the story - I get the inference that Mary's feet are put in a foot holder while they check out her vagina - but except to repeat this section of the story nothing specific about the foot holder mentioned 

[BarbStAubrey]

Well my Cambridge illustrated History of the Middle Ages arrived today... and I am knocked over for a loop - the description they have of what happened between 350 and 460 is exactly the issues we have going on in the world today only the opposite is in power - the migration and all the differences in how the 'other' ate, or what they ate, how they smelled, if they grew crops or hunted and how they did either and and and... yet, there are some who think it is grand that these groups like the Goths etc. are crossing the Rhine and criss crossing the Mediterranean with less and less talk of holding the frontier and everyone feeling overwhelmed turning to the Government to solve this massive change and then blaming the government when they are no better at handling all this then the individuals involved -

In Rome some flee - some hide and some band together is small groups - the only ones delighted with all this are the Christians. It is a time of creating nation states versus an Empire whose goal was to have everyone from Spain and the British Isles to Turkey and beyond share the same thinking, culture, food, way of life as one unified area.

And so, now I see as we read of Arthur, Welsh Saints, Irish leaders we are really looking closely at one of many barbarian groups - The preface asks the question if the people at the time were aware of the transition - The author says, those in Rome writing were the well to do who had a deep rooted sense of inertia and despondency so they dwell on the governmental machine and rail about injustice and abuses and bewail the uncertainty of their future - they toy with revolt - as they loose their grip the 'wheels of state' become progressively clogged and other authorities move in taking over land sections, Gaul, Britain, Spain etc.  Later in the East the Slaves, Berbers and Arabs section off their domains.

During this time there are severe droughts in the Mediterranean areas that prompt border wars - and a huge loss of life that helped to continue the emptying of Rome. We do not hear of this being a problem as we read how the Welsh, Irish, parts of England and Brittany are grouping during this time.

I see two things - the stories we are reading were only committed to paper at minimum 4 centuries after the events and during the intervening years they were told word of mouth therefore, not the work of the well to do - The stories may have been about the well to do but they were not the ones recording these happenings. The well to do were pushing for their territory and independence rather than simply hanging on to an impossible dream - Second, those who committed these stories to paper had a broad stroke of the pen without the intimate knowledge of the foibles and differences of everyday food, dress, mannerisms between the groups or even their inner expectations and fears as compared to what those writing in Rome recorded. 

As to to the book - sorta disappointed - after looking over the index and skipping to see the sections, it appears the entire thrust is from the point of view of the downfall of Rome and the Christian take over - all thought and roads lead back to Rome with a huge section talking about the break up of the East with each area having its own religious identity as well as, tribal or national identity. It appears this entire time in history for 350 to 950 is the shake up and establishment of nation states that started with groups like the Celts, Saxons and Goths and the land they occupy. What I was hoping for was a more detailed and intimate look at each of these cultures as they took on the identity of a nation state.

Where as we appear to be caught up in the drama between people and their belief in magic that is entwined in the culture and we are not paying that close attention the formation of land boundaries - but then that may not have been as important - the land seems to follow boundaries made by the sea, rivers, and mountains - isolated land areas would have its own insular culture and myths - these would be the barbarians as compared to the Romans and the Church - so far we have not read anything that featured the Church - with that in mind these stories are really very colloquial in the scheme of the history of the Middle Ages. I wonder if that is how it would be to read about say Georgia after the break up of the Soviet Union when the center of USSR was Moscow.   

[BarbStAubrey]

Gwynedd was an independent kingdom from the end of the Roman period until the 13th century - The ancient Welsh cantref of Arllechwedd in north-west Wales was part of the kingdom of Gwynedd for much of its history until it was included in the new county.

The Kingdom of Ceredigion was one of several Welsh kingdoms that emerged in 5th-century post-Roman Britain. Cardigan Bay to the west and the surrounding hilly geography made it difficult for foreign invaders to conquer. Its area corresponded roughly to that of the county of Ceredigion. Ceredigion transparently means "the people of Ceredig."

Nennius, a 9th-century Welsh chronicler, traces Ceredigion's foundation to Ceredig, son of Cunedda. According to Nennius, Cunedda migrated with his sons and followers from the Hen Ogledd (southern Scotland) in the 5th century.

Appears that Powys is adjacent to Gwynedd

[BarbStAubrey]

Wow this a fabulous - The Story of Wales starting with the red lady - remains from 30,000 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfKYqjempvc&feature=youtu.be

Looks like this is the first of 5 hour long films

[BarbStAubrey]

Cantrevs is an ancient Welsh word meaning 100 and so "Pryderi is assembling one-and-twenty Cantrevs to pursue after you" would be 2100.

Maenors A Welsh territorial and administrative unit consisting of a number of townships.

Nantcall Well - Ffynnon Nantcall is at the head of the parish of Clynnog Fawr. According to Myrddin Fardd, the water was used to cure blues and for digestion. Nantcall, or Nantcyll, is part of the name of four farms to the south of the village of Pant-glas

Mae Ffynnon Nantcall ym mhen uchaf plwyf Clynnog Fawr. Yn ôl Myrddin Fardd, fe ddefnyddid y dŵr i wella'r felan ac at gamdreuliad.

Pryderi is buried "at Maen Tyriawc, above Y Felenrhyd" after being killed by Gwydion in a battle at Y Felenrhyd on the banks of the River Dwyryd about a mile from the town.  Felenrhyd is just downstream, and the stone that marks his grave stands in the churchyard of Maentwrog, within the Snowdonia National Park, on the Roman road Sarn Helen.  Maentwrog, 'Maen Twrog' implies 'Twrog's stone' (Welsh maen = stone) - Twrog, (a giant) being the Celtic St Twrog. The stone stands beside the church in Maentwrog. The stone marks St Twrog's grave.  The boulder supposedly hurled by the giant is also the one said to mark Pryderi's grave.

[ANNIE]

I wrote a post about The Novel and it has disappeared from the Library!  Where did it go?

[Frybabe]

We will be discussing a tale about the Emperor Maximus this week. Ginny and I were just chatting about Hadrian's Wall where Maximus had helped to put down a conspiracy/rebellion at one of the garrisons. Lady Guest appears to be incorrect in asserting in her notes that Maximus was low-born. Here is his father's genealogy chart:  https://gw.geneanet.org/zardoz?lang=en&n=iulii&oc=0&p=flavius+julius+eucherius  Notice there is some Welsh in the family. Also, one of his daughters, Flavia, was the first wife of Vortigern (Gwerthrynion) who we have met elsewhere.

[BarbStAubrey]

I am impressed frybabe that you know the names of these folks well enough to see connections to Roman history - its beginning to add up for me why the Roman times history is less filled with giants, dwarfs and other magic - most of anything to do with Rome was early on committed to paper where as the time of Arthur followed by the time of the Welsh saints the stories were passed orally for several hundred year - seems like in order to thrill a listening audience stories became enlarged with not just Celtic magic but all sorts of exaggerations. 

Right off the bat in the first sentence there was a word used that brought a smile to my face since as archaic as it is I knew it from an old folk song about a man, who is at night a man and by day a silkie upon the sea - he has a son and he and his son are swimming together when his son is shot - all very sad and the music is also very mournful however, the man is described as Comely, meaning good looking and so our Maxen Wledig is good looking or handsome.

I'm thinking there will be lots of mis-information by Lady Guest since in the last 30 years so much has been uncovered that is turning the history of the early days of the British Isles and even Brittany on its head.  It is so easy to want to start reading about another aspect of this historical time but I am not going to dig into one more culture however, did we not hear that there was probably no invasion by these northern European tribes - rather they were trading and at first settled on the coast and gradually mixed and intermarried - do not remember the particulars on the Saxons but it seems to me they too were trading rather than whole sale conquering which was the belief back in the time Lady Guest put this all together. I'm so glad frybabe you are steeped in Roman history to help us sort out some of this now dated-information and also tie in the Roman times.

Since I've been reading and now seeing on these videos the importance of trade I wonder if that had something to do with the demise of Rome - there were new trade items that brought about new technology and products like tin that was added to iron and Rome did not have the latest raw material for new technology and so their trade may have not been able to keep Rome or Romans afloat. There are many lists of why Rome fell but I wonder now how much trade was a cause. 

That first film on Welsh History really helped me put together the time frame for these various happenings - not exactly events since they were Roman times and Arthur's time and the time of the Saints. 

[Frybabe]

As expected, a lot of information about Macsen Wledig's life in Britain is unknown or uncorroborated except for the Welsh legends. He did indeed take a large fleet of forces to Britain, married a Welsh woman, known as St. Elen, and took her with him when he went back to France on campaign and to establish his seat of power. The last evidence of Roman troops in Wales corresponds to when he pulled his troops out to campaign on the continent. There is also some archaeological evidence of a large British military settlement in Brittany.

I have no idea what city and castle is represented by the fairy-tale description in the story. Also, which river or rivers is the tale describing? I got a little confused about whether that was before or after he sailed, so I will have to re-read that part. I wonder where he landed when he crossed the channel to Britain. I might assume the Thames.  I also wonder where his administrative center as overall commander of the military in Britain was situated.

This article from Ancient Origins claims he was the inspiration for King Arthur. https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-famous-people/meet-magnus-maximus-roman-usurper-turned-welsh-hero-who-inspired-king-arthur-020932 Macsen Wledig's lineage appears to trace back to Constantine I, although there are some that disagree. It is possible that he used that lineage, with the encouragement of his troops, to legitimize his usurpation. https://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/BritishMagnusMaximus.htm

Elen, also known as Saint Helen of Caernarfon although she was never formally cannonized, is credited with bringing the Celtic form of monasticism to Wales from Gaul. She is also known as the patron saint of British road builders and the protectress of travelers for her efforts to establish well built roads for troops and travelers.

[Frybabe]

This tale was very short. Yesterday's afterthought was that I just read a work of historical fantasy fiction. Real life people and actions wrapped up in a fantasy dream.

Okay, I think I have the rivers worked out. He was hunting on the Italy side of the Alps, probably along the Po River. In his dream, he crossed the Alps and  likely followed the Rhine to the English Channel where he hopped on the boat.  He then traveled across England to the offshore island of Anglesey where he met his wife to be.

I was surprised to see Cordovan leather mentioned in these tales. The earliest known making of Cordovan is in the 7th century at Cordoba, Spain, way after the time of these tales. Real Cordovan is/was made from the a small portion of the hide of a horse's rump. The process is lengthy and difficult which explains the cost. It does not take dye well which explains the very limited color, but it is very long lasting.

[BarbStAubrey]

this dream story even felt more like fantasy then reality - reminded me of a bedtime story - the entire time I was reading it reminded me of, in this part of the country we tell kids about Pecos Bill, who among the many stories rides a tornado across the Rocky Mountains to California and when he had squeezed all the rain water out of the tornado he lands so hard he created Death Valley. He too is after the girl of his dreams. She rides a giant catfish down the Rio Grande. 

For sure a man's fantasy - strength, cunning, sexual prowess and conquering the known world, successfully fighting a worthy advisory - I bet we could match story after story down through the ages to this man's fantasy formula.   

[Frybabe]

I remember a cartoon about Pecos Bill from my kiddie-hood, but I cannot remember a single story. Wasn't there a song about him too?

Aren't you sorry you mentioned it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-izs5Wi4TUQ I am not sure this is the version I saw, but the story sure looks familiar, especially the jealous horse.

[BarbStAubrey]

It's one of those legends like Paul Bunyan which I do not know that story except by name and something about a tree or forest anyhow, Pecos Bill has as many tales as anyone decides to chew over however, there are a couple of main points -

He was one of 18 kids that when the covered wagon traveled from East Texas going west and went over a rock he fell out and was raised by the coyotes - several versions how he realized he was a man including one about a cowboy lost on his horse that becomes widow-maker - another version during a drought the horse, almost dead is found in west Texas - Pecos Bill lassos not only a tornado but a bunch of rustlers trying to take some longhorns and he uses them as cowhands to create the largest ranch that takes in all of New Mexico -

And the wife, the gal riding the giant catfish has a wedding dress with a bustle made of fencing wire before there was barbwire and a stay gets loose so she falls and bounces each time the story teller uses another reference to how high and when Pecos Bill tried to rescue her the horse steps on the rope so it cannot reach her - some have her going to the moon and Pecos Bill howls at the moon like the coyotes and other versions have the rope snagging her dress taking Bill with her and they both end up on the moon raising a family and thunder is the kids fighting and brawling among themselves.

The Tornado bit also has different versions but essentially he crosses the southwest and the rocky mountains to California - some have him rolling a cigarette and grabbing a bolt of lightening to light it - some have the tornado starting in Missouri - some say the tornado leaves rain across the southwest and others have the tornado pickup up water by draining the Red River and then filling it back up causing a massive flood across the entire state that creates the Gulf of Mexico

Roy Rogers had a record out with part of the story in song- again the legend has many versions and so who knows who and how many have turned it into a video or movie or record or book or or or - here it is one of those stories with the kids are ruching in their chair waiting at the doctor's office or such and usually it is some old guy who gets their attention with a version of the story.

[Frybabe]

This week we again visit the battles between the Red and the White dragon.  This story tells us how the dragons got to be buried to stop the second plague (the horrid screaming). So King Lludd buried them, and later,  Vortigern reawakened them thus reigniting the battle in which the Red Dragon finally expels the White Dragon. http://www.ancientpages.com/2019/05/21/magical-dinas-emrys-battle-of-the-dragons-and-merlins-hidden-treasure/

The other two I need to research a little more. The first sounded to me more like some kind of real plague rather than a group of people which was killed of by a medical concoction. I found little about the Coranians on my initial search. Wikipedia seems to have the best explanation so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coraniaid  I don't know what to make of the third plague. It could be a straight up story of thievery.

[BarbStAubrey]

Lady Guest writes Cassibelaunus where as all over the internet the preferred spelling is Cassivellaurus.

Link with a photo of the bust of Cassibelaunus - looks like he was a Celtic king.
http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/celts_25.html

This link was the first read where I really felt and understood the world before the areas of the world were separated into nations as we know them to be now and where tribes rather than those with national identity populated and ruled. Now the stories of the Celts is fitting into my understanding that is more than wonderful intricate designs and simply an ancient influence.

Could not figure out who the Brut was - never heard of him as a scribe - finally found it..."Roman de Brut is a verse translation of Geoffrey of Monmouth’s Historia Regun Brittaniae into French by the poet Wace. Wace used both the standard and variant versions of the Historia. Wace called this work Geste des Bretons (‘Deeds of the Britons’), but scribes who copied it renamed it as the Roman de Brut, and that is the name it is generally known as today."

The link goes on to talk about Constantine's wife with information I had never heard about and her association with Catholic Britain. And his son also has roots in Britain - wow - had no idea Britain for Constantine was far more than simply another Roman conquest.
https://kingarthur.fandom.com/wiki/Roman_de_Brut

[BarbStAubrey]

tra la - frybabe the notes are really helpful - there is an alternate name for the Coranians - the Coritani and here is great link that comes up when I googled Coritani - The link goes into the difference that amounts to not knowing how to spell the Celtic language - these folks lived in the area from around 100BC to the 5th century AD

https://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsBritain/BritainCoritani.htm

[BarbStAubrey]

this link shows photos of kistvaens

https://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/kist_vaens.htm

[Frybabe]

Great find, Barb. I watched an episode of Time Team where they dug up what they belief was a very early monastery on the Isle of Mull, just off the Scottish west coast. On the outside of  the small chapel, they found an outdoor alter which looked boxy, kind of like the Kistvaens, but probably a bit better shaped. These old outdoor altars often contained relics, and or bones in them. Sure enough, they found enough bone to carbon date the site. This monastery would have been built by followers of St. Colomba. The site, up on a hill, looks towards the west where you can see Ireland.

Another Time Team episode was digging around in a church yard and surrounds at a site they believe to have been the site of an early Medieval building, possibly an administrative center or early King's residence. I wasn't paying strict attention to it at one point until I heard the names of the two murdered brothers with the long unpronounceable E names who were said to have been murdered somewhere around there. Well, now I remember running across their names, but can't remember if it was in one of the stories or in some of my research.  I'll run across it again eventually.

[BarbStAubrey]

The legends and history of Beddgelert

 http://www.snowdonia.org/

Capel Curig (Welsh pronunciation: [ˈkɑːpɛl ˈkɨːrɪɡ]; meaning "Curig's Chapel") is a village and community in the historic county of Caernarfonshire, currently administered as part of the unitary authority of Conwy County Borough, in Wales.

St Curig was a Celtic Roman Catholic bishop and saint of Wales during post Roman times. St Curig settled in Wales in the 7th century AD, during the reign of Maelgwn Gwynedd, for whom he was described as being a warrior. Lore describes Maelgwn becoming angered by his warrior's newfound religious beliefs, and in response Curig "caused Maelgwn and his men to go blind (and forced) three of Maelgwn's sons (...) to give Gurig (sic) land."

Upon landing at Aberystwyth, "he travelled inland, and rested upon the summit of a high mountain, where he settled a green, which still bears the name of Eisteddfa Gurig, or Curig's seat." Curig is thought to have migrated to Brittany at the end of his life and there are several churches there bearing his name. He is said to have died at Landerneau and been buried at Locquirec.

OK so we have Giraldus Cambrensis, mentioned by Lady Guest in the notes, who is an archdeacon and mediaeval Latin writer furthering some of the Red Dragon tale. Evidently a prolific writer of Welsh and Irish history and legend  - here is a link to his tome on The Conquest of Ireland

http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/conquest_ireland.pdf

[Frybabe]

Ah, Gerald of Wales (c.1146-c1223). https://www.britannica.com/biography/Giraldus-Cambrensis I knew about is attempts to become bishop of St. David's. I think I have his description of King Baldwin's journey through Wales, will have to check. I am hunting for the mentioned autobiography. Project Gutenberg does not seem to have it.

[Frybabe]

I was rereading the bit about the dragons in the cauldron and realized I missed a key word or two. What IS it with the pigs. The dragons were turned into pigs before sinking down into the mead filled cauldron to slumber away until they were disturbed again. More than anything in these stories that got my attention is the number of times pigs featured in a story. Not cattle, not deer, but pigs. Well I guess they were a bit easier to keep in a farm or settlement enclosure and be ready at hand for a meal in the family or tribal pot. Deer you had to hunt. Finding, killing and lugging them home is ifsy. Cattle, need to range a large area to eat and cutting and storing fodder for any more than a few would be problematic. So only one or two would only be kept in the enclosure for milk and special occasion banquets and sacrifices. So, pigs would have a more regular source of meat and they eat just about anything. That would be my best guess anyway.

you know, the only stories of wizardry I really ever took to was J. R. R. Tolkien's  Hobbit/Lord of the Rings series. I have yet to read The Silmarillion. While Merlin swirled around the King Arthur legends, he was never a focus for me.

[BarbStAubrey]

I'm wondering when they started to pen pigs - where these really pigs or wild pigs that get big and are dangerous

OK looked it up in the book of Traditional Symbols

"The pig is a fertility symbol, hence prosperity, but also gluttony, greed, lust, anger and unbridled passion and the unclean. The sow is associated with the Great Mother and has a lunar, sky and fertility symbolism.

Celtic: The sow goddess, ‘the Old White One’, Keridwen, is the Great Mother, also Phaea, ‘the Shining One’ as the moon and fertility. The pig is an attribute of Manannan who provided supernatural food through his pigs which were killed and eaten and returned daily.

Christian: Satan; gluttony; sensuality. Emblem of St Anthony Abbot who overcame the demon of gluttony.

Roman: Swine were sacrificed to Mars as god of agriculture, also to Tellus and Ceres at harvest time.

Googled Manannan and found this... Manannan or Manannan Mac Lir was a popular deity in Celtic mythology, belonging to an Irish mystical race known as the Tuatha De Danann. Manannan's title was 'Lord of the Sea'. Manannan also had a foster son named Lugh; the Great Warrior, on whom he bestowed his magical belongings.

https://www.transceltic.com/manx/manann-n-mac-lir-son-of-sea-celtic-sea-god-and-protector-of-mannin

Keridwen In Celtic Welsh mythology, Cerridwen is a powerful Underworld Goddess, and the keeper of the cauldron of knowledge, inspiration and rebirth. She rules the realms of death, fertility, regeneration, inspiration, magic, enchantment and knowledge. Cerridwen is a shape shifting Goddess, able to take on various forms.

She is the accidental creator of the great bard Taliesin: She gives birth to two children, a daughter called Crearwy who is the most favoured woman in the world, beautiful in every way, and a son Affaggdu who is born malformed and ugly and the dark aspect of her coupling.

To offset her son’s ill fortune, she sets about creating a potion of inspiration, which needs to be boiled for a year and a day. She sets Gwydion Bach (who is to become Taliesin) to the task of stirring the cauldron of wisdom for her, however three drops from the cauldron burn his fingers, and putting them to his mouth he is gifted with clear sight and knowledge.

Ceridwen is outraged at this and chases Taliesin through a variety of animal guises until she finally eats him as grain of wheat in the form of a hen. Nine months later she gives birth to a child, and not having the heart to kill it, sets it afloat on a river to be discovered by Elphin. The year and a day time-span in which the cauldron is set to boil, is a common motif in Welsh mythology.

Phaea  A monstrous wild sow which ravaged the countryside of Crommyon in Greece, attacking animals and humans and causing great damage. It was slain by the hero Theseus. The Crommyonian sow, a giant, pesky pig liked to chow down on human flesh.

The sow, whom Plutarch calls Phaea, was bred by a grumpy old lady in the town of Crommyon. Pseudo-Apollodorus claims that the pig was named after her owner; both were called Phaea. Instead of reining in this hoggish monster, Phaea let her pig waddle free, gobbling up her neighbors and little kids like they were truffles. Diodorus Siculus quips that the hog “beast which excelled in both ferocity and size and was killing many human beings.” Needless to say, this didn’t go over well with the local authorities, but they didn’t approach Pig Phaea, lest they be chomped up, too.

An ancient Greek Vase showing Phaea slain by Theseus

https://www.theoi.com/Gallery/M15.3.html

[BarbStAubrey]

The Whole History of the Tuatha de Danann: Ireland’s Most Ancient Race
https://www.connollycove.com/tuatha-de-danann/

[BarbStAubrey]

Amazing how one clue leads to another - and in this case more clues from other resources. The separate pig stories include Lugh and the bard to come that we read next week, Taliesin

[Frybabe]

Interesting info Barb. I am glad I kept scratching my head over the pigs.

I just did a quick search and found that pigs were thought to have been first domesticated in the Near East and spread to Europe about 8,500 years ago. DNA evidence indicates, however, that the Europeans may have separately domesticated their wild stock.  The only thing I could find so far is that the original wild boar became extinct around the 13th century. It appears that pigs have been in Ireland at least as early as 7,300 BC and in England as early as 5,600 BC. Interesting abstract of a study using DNA samples to follow pig domestication in Europe. https://www.pnas.org/content/104/39/15276

[BarbStAubrey]

Yep that is what I meant - your query awakened my questions that research took over and sent us to further information that leads to yet more research that ends up linking us to make deeper, the story we are reading which prompts you to find even more information - amazing how that works - like a round robin

DNA is really opening up the past isn't it - interesting it was the near East - I would have suspected the Far East with as many meals using parts of pigs in Chinese food. 

My thinking on wild pigs is because we are overun in Texas - they do so much damage - they breed 4 times a year and minimum produce 10 piglets at a time - in an hour they can root up and destroy a couple of acres of crops and now they are coming into the suburban areas destroy an entire yard in 20 minutes. Bounties are on them - night time shooting is helping - problem you have to have them cornered because the first shot is fired and they scatter - they are huge and run very very fast. If a rancher is using his harvester he sometimes chases 100 or more out of his hay or sorghum or corn field - they run so fast so that unless you knew and were ready for them there is no way to take them down or even stop them. And so I'm thinking when the story says pigs I bet they are more like the wild pigs here in Texas rather than the cute chubby pink animals we think of when we say pigs.

Cannot warm up today - heat on and I have it at 75 for heavens sake - we got snow last night - a few shady spots still show the light covering - last real snow we had was in 2004 - since we have had about 6 winters with this light partial covering that isn't really even an inch - although 2 years ago it was maybe 2 inches - enough that kids scarped together enough to make small snowmen - Another cold night tonight and then it starts to warm up - usually this time of year we are in the high 60s to  mid 70s but this time this cold front was preceded by 5 days of temps in the 80s - even the heating system is confused - one day its the AC and the next heat. That is probably the problem, it takes awhile for the house to be warmed - there is no accumulation of warmth and the attic would have had that cold air blow in - Well off for a nap under the warm quilts... 

[Frybabe]

Oops! I missed a critical bit in this line. "...the original wild boar became extinct around the 13th century" It should read "the original wild boar became extinct in Britain around the 13th century."  There are or were efforts to reintroduce the wild boar to England, but I glossed over that bit and didn't check on when or if successful.  Yes, I've heard that wild pigs are quite ferocious. Didin't know Texas was plagued with them though/

I feel like we are doing our own version of James Burke's BBC series Connections. I loved that show.

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes I saw that and immediately what came to mind was the Christmas Carol about the Boar's Head - which suggests that the extinction must date that Carol or at last the memory of the Boar's head during the holiday must have been a tradition that was strong enough to last past the availability of roasting a Boar or its head.

I need to look next time in the deli - there is a line of processed meats and cheeses that are Boar's Head products - tasty compared to others - I wonder where their processing plant is located and how they came up with the name -

OK that was easy... "Boar’s Head Brand was established in the New York City area in 1905. Dissatisfied with the quality of hams available, our founder Frank Brunckhorst set out to craft products of uncompromising standards by using only the finest ingredients." 

Looks like Germany still has wild boars... "No one knows how many boars live in Germany. In Berlin, boars tend to live in Wannsee, Spandau, Hakenfelde Tegel and Köpenick. But they can also be found in Brandenburg and across Germany, especially in the northern city of Rostock and also in the east, said Stillfried... 

With their sturdy bodies, coarse hair and a menacing look at times, wild boars might not be the kind of animal you’d want to bump into during a relaxing forest walk. Yet they might be living closer to you than you think. That is if you live in some green German cities where wild boars can rummage around gardens, parks and even trundling down the street in huge groups."

Boar meat tastes like a cross between pork and lamb. Like most game, it's well suited for stews, ragouts and braises. It marries well with fruit, spirits and spices such as juniper and cloves. It provides more protein than beef or pork, and less cholesterol than chicken.

tra la - link to preparing the boar's head for Christmas with notes on the Carol

https://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/Notes_On_Carols/The%20Boar%27s%20Head%20Carols/preparing_the_boars_head_whitehead-1893.htm

Thought the notes on the carol more interesting - did not remember the 2 day boar hunt in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight

https://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/Notes_On_Carols/The%20Boar%27s%20Head%20Carols/boars_head_carols.htm

[BarbStAubrey]

And so the last of it - evidently this is the chapter often not included in the story of Wales...

They city of Penllyn still exists - the internet shows a 12 century Castle for sale -

Goddess name "Tegid Voel", Welsh, Goddess of water who was identified by the poet Taliesin.
Tegid Voel is also said to be the father of Arthur's extremely ugly warrior Morfran and grandfather of Myrddin. He was the husband of Ceridwen.

OK... Available for $10 is Gwion Oil – Gwion is the Servant of Ceridwen who drank three drops from her cauldron of All Knowledge. In anger she devoured him but gave birth to him nine months later as Taliesin the great bard. Also available for the same price is, Tegid Voel Oil – Ceridwen’s husband in Welsh mythology. Both can be purchased at Ceridwen's (online shopping although In 1993, Sharon sold Ceridwen’s, with all her 1500 original recipes, to Bob Isaac, owner of Merlin’s Books & Gifts in Independence, MO.) So there you go...

Llyn (lake) Tegid is four-miles long and over 40m deep, Llyn Tegid ('Bala Lake') is the largest lake in Wales, with its own mythical monster called Teggie. The 6th century ...

Appears there is a film about the monster - the link includes a few photos...  http://teggie.co.uk/

Interesting link to the son Morvran ab Tegid...  https://www.nightbringer.se/a_morfran.html

Creirwy (Welsh pronunciation: [ˈkrəirʊɨ]) is a figure in the Mabinogion and the Hanes Taliesin (the story of Taliesin's life), daughter of the enchantress Ceridwen and Tegid Foel ("Tacitus the Bald"). The Welsh Triads name her one of the three most beautiful maids of the Isle of Britain... she was described as ‘the loveliest nymph of the earth’. Her brothers were the ugly Afagddu and the handsome Morfran.

[BarbStAubrey]

A nice link to the Triads http://www.zendonaldson.com/twilight/camelot/triads/index.htm

[BarbStAubrey]

Ah included in the rather extensive link below... What then, is The Book of Pheryllt ?

Pheryllt is the Welsh spelling for Virgil; the Latin V in “Vergilius” goes to an initial F in Welsh, which in medieval manuscripts may be written Ph. You may also see ff, as in fferyllt. The Book of Pheryllt then, is a reference to The Book of Virgil .

https://www.digitalmedievalist.com/opinionated-celtic-faqs/pheryllt/

Included is a link the the Facebook page on Celtic Studies - not a bad page - https://www.facebook.com/digitalmedievalist/

[BarbStAubrey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVvuM9opD8g

God Bless the Prince of Wales — Caerphilly Male Voice Choir

[Frybabe]

Looks like you've been busy, Barb.

Here is my meager contribution so far. As I read Taliesin it dawned me that the Druids are very much a part of the story. Then I remembered The Time Team program I watched the other day when they were on Anglesey  digging up some fields. The Druids, or at least the Irish/Welsh Druids were very much a Triad. The three classes of Druids were the Bards, the Vates (or Ovates), and the Druids proper. The Druids were not just a religion. The Bards were, of course, the poets/storytellers/mistrals, the Vates were the philosopher/soothsayers, and the Druids were the teachers and arbiters of disputes, and intercedents between people and the gods. So the Druids were the intelligentsia, the learned elite. Barry Cunliffe does a nice job of describing their roles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkvoKrCBJao I do not have Cunliffe's book, The Druids,(2010). Mine is the one Anne Ross wrote: Druids, Teachers of Immortality (1999).

[BarbStAubrey]

So glad you outlined some of who the Druids were - like all of us I've heard about them but know little about them - I've picked up they were the religious, spiritual, philosophical, story tellers before Christianity and there appears to have been another religion active in Wales before Christianity and after the time of the Druids. Christianity came with the Romans and since Rome did not penetrate deeply into Wales it was waht ever that other religion was that was the belief of those who fought to keep Rome out of most of Wales. Neither here not there, as I understand the Druids hold sway in all the British Isles - do you know, was Merlin a Druid? -

The other aspect of this read is how many characters are part of the Arthur story - never heard of most of them - sounds like there are several books all telling different aspects of the story and several of these books I never heard of - boy oh boy, is this read an eye opener - Frankly I'm glad this is the end of it because I anxious to get onto other reading but I am sure glad we chose to read the Mabinogion and now my thinking is to find out more about the Arthur stories.

Another aspect of these stories is to learn how many of the places mentioned are still active communities today - and the more links, the more I'm shocked to learn how far back to the 'history of man' the British Isles were contributing to that history, with archeological digs showing the evidence of these ancient times - it was easy to go with with the concept that the world was peopled and broken into areas of civilization based on the names we know today - Egypt, Cyprus, Greece etc. I knew so little about the culture of the huge lands ruled by the Saxons, Goths or Celts and others that were as important to our history as the Romans and Greeks.  

[BarbStAubrey]

OK - found this in the book I have on my kindle - Celtic Mythology and the Religion of the Ancient Celts this answer part of my own questioning about the Druids - did not know they were part and parcel of the Celtic culture... here are some quotes...

"Julius Caesar's Notebooks About the Gallic War, written some time in the 50s or 40s BC. He discusses Celtic society and the Druids at length: “Throughout Gaul there are two classes of persons of definite account and dignity…Of the two classes above mentioned one consists of Druids, the other of knights. The former are concerned with divine worship, the due performance of sacrifices, public and private, and the interpretation of ritual questions: a great number of young men gather about them for the sake of instruction and hold them in great honour.

A great many young men come to the Druids for instruction, holding them in great respect. Indeed, the Druids are the judges on all controversies public and private. If any crime has been committed, if any murder done, if there are any questions concerning inheritance, or any controversy concerning boundaries, the Druids decide the case and determine punishments. If anyone ignores their decision, that person is banned from all sacrifices—an extremely harsh punishment among the Gauls. Those who are so condemned are considered detestable criminals. Everyone shuns them and will not speak with them, fearing some harm from contact with them, and they receive no justice nor honor for any worthy deed.

Among all the Druids there is one who is the supreme leader, holding highest authority over the rest. When the chief Druid dies, whoever is the most worthy succeeds him. If there are several of equal standing, a vote of all the Druids follows, though the leadership is sometimes contested even by armed force.

At a certain time of the year, all the Druids gather together at a consecrated spot in the territory of the Carnutes, whose land is held to be the center of all Gaul. Everyone gathers therefrom the whole land to present disputes and they obey the judgments and decrees of the Druids. It is said that the Druidic movement began in Britain and was then carried across to Gaul. Even today, those who wish to study their teachings most diligently usually travel to Britain.

The Druids are exempt from serving in combat and from paying war taxes, unlike all other Gauls. Tempted by such advantages, many young people willingly commit themselves to Druidic studies while others are sent by their parents.

It is said that in the schools of the Druids they learn a great number of verses, so many in fact that some students spend twenty years in training. It is not permitted to write down any of these sacred teachings, though other public and private transactions are often recorded in Greek letters. I believe they practice this oral tradition for two reasons: first, so that the common crowd does not gain access to their secrets and second, to improve the faculty of memory. Truly, writing does often weaken one's diligence in learning and reduces the ability to memorize.

The cardinal teaching of the Druids is that the soul does not perish, but after death passes from one body to another. Because of this teaching that death is only a transition, they are able to encourage fearlessness in battle. They have a great many other teachings as well which they hand down to the young concerning such things as the motion of the stars, the size of the cosmos and the earth, the order of the natural world, and the power of the immortal gods."

[Frybabe]

Merlin seems to have been depicted as the last of the Druids and may have been a composite drawn from several people rather than just one person.

This is an interesting tale. Here we have the cross-over or blending of the old religion and the new. Taliesin's dad was Saint Henwg of Caerlleon upon Usk who, according to Taliesin (who may have been the only source), traveled to Rome to ask Constantine the Great to send Saints Germanus and Lupus to Britain to help Christianize the island.

Taliesin seems to have been born (around 534AD) n the area we know as Glamorgan (territory of Morgan).  Here again is the sacred number three. Taliesin is part of the Baptismal Bard Triad along with Merddin Emrys and Merddin, son of Madoc Morvryn.
 
Here are two short articles that try to sort out the life of the real Taliesin from the mythical Taliesin.
https://biography.wales/article/s-TALI-ESI-0575
https://www.digitalmedievalist.com/opinionated-celtic-faqs/who-is-taliesin/
https://www.ancienttexts.org/library/celtic/jce/taliesin1.html

I ran across a novel once that involved trying to authenticate a book supposedly written by an earlier author. These articles cast doubt whether or not some of the poems attributed to Taliesin were written by him. So, literary hoaxes were in evidence even back in the 11th-12th century. 

[BarbStAubrey]

thanks frybabe - have to get to the links later - need to finish this story - slow going today - how do you find the time to do all the reading you do - I've been in awe at your prolific completion of book after book.

[Frybabe]

I spend a lot of time on the computer, reading and tending to the cats whims. I rarely get bored reading.

[BarbStAubrey]

Englyn (pronounced [ˈɛŋ. lɪn]; plural englynion) is a traditional Welsh and Cornish short poem form. It uses quantitative metres, involving the counting of syllables, and rigid patterns of rhyme and half rhyme. Each line contains a repeating pattern of consonants and accent known as cynghanedd.