Author Topic: Hound of Baskervilles by A. Conan Doyle (Read 61550 times)

pedln · « **Reply #120 on:** January 16, 2009, 09:43:32 AM »

The Hound of the
Baskervilles
by
A. Conan Doyle

"Sherlock Holmes' most famous case, the Hound of the Baskervilles, was set on foggy Dartmoor, and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle got much of the inspiration for the book from real-life people and places - as well as folklore.

The first episodes of Sherlock Holmes' best known adventure - were published in The Strand Magazine starting in August 1901." http://classiclit.about.com

Links:
Free Online Version - The Hound of the Baskervilles
Official web site ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Literary Estate.
Sydney Paget Drawings: Archive
The Sherlock Holmes Museum

Schedule:
Jan. 2nd --- Jan. 8th Chapters: 1 -- 5
Jan. 9th --- Jan. 15th Chapters: 6 -- 10
Jan. 16th --- Jan. 22st Chapters 11 -- 15

Discussion Leaders: BillH and fairanna

BillH · « **Reply #121 on:** January 16, 2009, 12:45:49 PM »

Pedlin, thank you for posting the Heading.

JoanK · « **Reply #122 on:** January 16, 2009, 12:49:53 PM »

BABI: I thought the same thing! But I couldn't imagine why only ONE.

BillH · « **Reply #123 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:05:20 PM »

Chapter eleven opens with Dr. Watson's discreet interview or questioning of Mrs. Laura Lyons',of Coombe Tracey, letter she had written to Sir Charles Baskerville. I couldn't help but wonder if Dr. Watson's personality, the very essence of discreetness, was a reflection of Conan's Doyle's own persona, or was Conan Doyle wishing his own conduct could've been more like Watson.

I sometimes wonder if an author of a book would liked to have been similar to the individual he or she wrote about.

Coombe Tracey. Where do they get these names; are they a combination of family names?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #124 on:** January 16, 2009, 03:35:51 PM »

HELLO BILL.

Interesting speculation on the author's wishes, I would have little ideas on that subject. Watson, as Holmes, says in the story, is a man of action, he wants to get things done; while Holmes believes he is the one to solve the crime through his deductive reasoning.

I just finished Chapter 12 and am just amazed at Doyle's ability to set the scene, one of horror:

"A low moan had fallen upon our ears. There it was again upon our left! On that side a ridge of rocks ended in a sheer cliff which overlooked a stone-strewn slope. On its jagged face was spread-eagled some dark, irregular object. As we ran towards it the vague outline hardened into a definite shape. It was a prostrate man face downward upon the ground, the head doubled under him at a horrible angle, the shoulders rounded and the body hunched together as if in the act of throwing a somersault. So grotesque was the attitude that I could not for the instant realize that that moan had been the passing of his soul. Not a whisper, not a rustle, rose now from the dark figure over which we stooped. Holmes laid his hand upon him and held it up again with an exclamation of horror. The gleam of the match which he struck shone upon his clotted fingers and upon the ghastly pool which widened slowly from the crushed skull of the victim. And it shone upon something else which turned our hearts sick and faint within us -- the body of Sir Henry Baskerville! "

The moan was the passing of his soul! Goodness gracious!

His skull was crushed, now how could a hound do that? And then it turned out that the body was not Sir Henry at all.

I shall soon finished the story. It's been fun.

Brian · « **Reply #125 on:** January 16, 2009, 06:51:54 PM »

Coombe Tracey - - - I have actually walked on Dartmoor and have never come across the name of this village, so I searched the name, only to find that it is fictitious. There are, however, many similar names, and Conan Doyle has chosen a name that fits in with the rest of the story.

While searching, I came across a great little quiz that should be easy for those of us who have read the book with so much interent : -

http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/rats_quiz_07.htm

Brian.

PatH · « **Reply #126 on:** January 16, 2009, 08:35:16 PM »

According to my book, Coombe Tracey is actually Bovey Tracey:

http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/things-to-do/town-details.asp?Town=4

PatH · « **Reply #127 on:** January 16, 2009, 09:12:28 PM »

The plot thickens! Watson learns where the man on the tor has been hiding, and tracks him to one of the neolithic stone huts. Before looking into the hut: "A haze lay low upon the farthest skyline, out of which jutted the fantastic shapes of Belliver and Vixen Tor." Here is Vixen Tor:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic-art/151853/5167/Vixen-Tor-a-granite-formation-on-Dartmoor-Devon

The second picture is the one Bill posted in post #44--undoubtedly the very stone hut where the man was based.

I'm almost finished, but am trying to move slowly so I won't spoil anything for anyone.

I like your quiz, Brian, took it already.

Babi · « **Reply #128 on:** January 17, 2009, 09:23:03 AM »

JOANK, I suppose only one boot was taken, as the perp. (modern, I know) didn't want the clue to be too obvious. Plant one or two discreet, half-hidden prints, and let the detectives pride themselves on their skills.
My mind rebelled immediately on reading that Watson and Holmes found the 'body' of Sir Henry. That was simply not permissible; totally out of character for a Sherlock Holmes story, IMO. I was much relieved and gratified when Sir Henry stirred and proved me right.
When Watson first spotted that tall, slender figure against the moonlight on the tor, I suspected it was Sherlock Holmes. He had been much too 'absent' in this mystery. I could readily believe he had been lurking secretly on the moors. It would be entirely in keeping with his methods.

BillH · « **Reply #129 on:** January 17, 2009, 10:19:23 AM »

Ella, when I read that passage from the novel I thought for sure it was Sir Henry's body.

Brian, thank you for the link to that quiz. I'll download it and see how I do. Might be fun to see how we all do!!

PatH, the second picture of the moor reminds me a bit of Stone Henge. I visited Stone Henge on a trip to England. I know it's a bit of a stretch but Stone Henge pop into my mind as soon as I saw the picture.

PatH · « **Reply #130 on:** January 17, 2009, 10:39:04 AM »

It's not a stretch at all: they kind of come from the same people.

Here's an in between picture taken on the moors:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/9817

BillH · « **Reply #131 on:** January 17, 2009, 10:48:30 AM »

"Barrymore's only indication had been that the stranger lived in one of these abandoned huts, and many hundreds of them are scattered throughout the length and breadth of the moor. But I had my own experience for a guide since it had shown me the man himself standing upon the summit of the Black Tor. That, then, should be the centre of my search. From there I should explore every hut upon the moor until I lighted upon the right one"

Watson decides to explore on his own. Watson best be careful!!

BillH · « **Reply #132 on:** January 17, 2009, 10:52:49 AM »

"It was after a visit to the mires that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle got the inspiration for the Grimpen Mire which was the haunt for the infamous hound which was central to his plot in The Hound of the Baskervilles. Many Sherlock Holmes enthusiasts make the pilgrimage here to see for themselves the eerie Grimpen Mire, indeed some folk actually think of the place as the actual Grimpen Mire. "

"The hunter homeward speeds in haste,
Ere fogs o'ertake him on the waste;
And if to Foxtor mires he roam,
He'll bid a long adieu to home;
A dreary shroud is o'er his head,
A yawning swamp around him spread;
Spell-bound and lost he ventures on
One fatal step - and all is done;
Hopeless he struggles, vain his throes,
Deeper and deeper down he goes !
The raven claps her ebon wing,
His dirge the howling winds may sing,
And mists will spread the last sad pall
O'er that dark grave unknown to all".

Dartmoor Days - Edward William Lewis Davis - 1863[/b]

Watson best be careful!!

Brian · « **Reply #133 on:** January 17, 2009, 11:56:42 PM »

Dartmoor is thought to have been inhabited for over 5000 years, and my quote : -

At the centre of Dartmoor National Park are the High Moors. This is good walking,
cycling and pony trekking country. The main Tourist Information Centre for the National
Park is in Princetown. Close by is Dartmoor Prison, originally constructed for prisoners
of war during the Napoleonic wars, now used as a high security prison.

Postbridge is the site of the largest of Dartmoor's clapper bridges; these granite structures have been used by farmers and tin miners since medieval times. To the north east lies Grimspound, a Bronze Age village consisting of 24 circular huts; the finest example of Dartmoor's early settlements.

To the southwest is Hound Tor, an area rich in myths and legends and thought to be the
inspiration of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's novel "The Hound of the Baskervilles". To the
north is the pretty village of Widecombe-in-the-Moor, which holds an annual fair in
September, thought to be the birthplace of the folk song "Widecombe Fair".

- - - was taken from the following link : -

http://www.aboutbritain.com/articles/dartmoor-national-park.asp

Brian.

Brian · « **Reply #134 on:** January 18, 2009, 12:10:06 AM »

Clapper Bridges - - -

These were the original "stepping stones" across streams and shallow rivers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapper_bridge#Examples

Brian.

Babi · « **Reply #135 on:** January 18, 2009, 10:24:37 AM »

BILL, if you thought Combe-Tracey was an odd name, what did you think of the real 'Ditsworthy Warren', or 'Grimspound'?

'Clapper bridges' is an entirely new term or me. Thanks for explaining that they are stepping stones, Bryan. I was trying to figure out what a 'clapper' bridge would be. Now I suppose they just 'clapped down' some stones.

I'm trusting Watson to be careful. He is, after all, an old Army man.

PatH · « **Reply #136 on:** January 18, 2009, 11:20:31 AM »

Quote from: Babi on January 18, 2009, 10:24:37 AM

I'm trusting Watson to be careful. He is, after all, an old Army man.

Yes, but he is impulsive as well as brave.

BillH · « **Reply #137 on:** January 18, 2009, 11:39:52 AM »

'Ditsworthy Warren', or 'Grimspound'? 'Clapper bridges'

Babi and Bryan, I often wonder how these British names came into being. I believe some are family names given to towns or other.

Clapper bridges is not so bad but Ditworthy Warren, now that’s something else.

PatH, yes, in other Sherlock Holmes stories Watson has acted on impulse.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #138 on:** January 18, 2009, 11:56:37 AM »

Names! Lovely old names and I am so enjoying them. And "CLAPPER" bridges! We've learned much and enjoyed every bit of it.

BRIAN, I looked at that quiz, too involved, I would have to go back and read and study the story all over again. When you are, as I am, reading 2-3 books at a time you discover that there is a limit to the number of wrinkles and crannies in the brain.

Thanks, Bill, for that poem. I was surprised to read - "A yawning swamp around him spread; Spell-bound and lost he ventures on - One fatal step - and all is done."

There were swamps on the moors?

JoanK · « **Reply #139 on:** January 18, 2009, 02:22:45 PM »

PATH: I loved seeing Bovey tracey: the inspiration for Doyle's vollage. I especially loved this: " William de Tracey built original church to expiate guilt for the murder of Thomas a Becket."

So this town was already associated with murder!!!

I too was shocked to see Sir Henry murdered -- out of character for Doyle. For all the creepiness, only the bad get punished, the good survive.

BABI: wait til you find out the meaning of the one boot. I NEVER would have guessed.

ELLA: I'm guessing that "mire" is British for swamp.

gingerw · « **Reply #140 on:** January 18, 2009, 03:05:49 PM »

Brian, thanks for the quiz, I took it but found not place for the answers and might have missed one or two.

Thanks for the pictures of the moor and the stones en al. I have been to stonehedge.

You all have added so much to the book as usual

.

Brian · « **Reply #141 on:** January 18, 2009, 03:38:24 PM »

Henge - - - as in Stonehenge : -

This is another fine old English word,

In archaeological terms, a henge is usually defined as a circular or oval area enclosed by a bank and an internal ditch. This distinguishes them from defensive enclosures, where the ditch would be on the outside (and the bank probably topped by a wooden palisade). The distinction is not a hard and fast one, however: Stonehenge does not have an internal ditch and some henge monuments have ditches both inside and outside the bank.

Brian

PatH · « **Reply #142 on:** January 18, 2009, 08:11:59 PM »

Britain is sprinkled with prehistoric stone monuments like Stonehenge and the neolithic huts and the standing stones looming down on the dead wicked Sir Hugo. They have an odd creepiness to them, as well as legends attached to some of them, so, for an English audience, this would add considerably to the atmosphere of the story.

I was lucky enough to visit Stonehenge in the 1950s, when you could still wander freely among the stones, and it was pretty unforgettable.

Ditsworthy Warren: I don't know where "Ditsworthy" comes from, but "Warren" comes from the medieval rabbit warrens there. Not natural burrows, but places where they raised rabbits for food. If you follow some of the links posted far enough you find the pictures of the remaining stone warrens, unusually well preserved.

EvelynMC · « **Reply #143 on:** January 18, 2009, 08:55:42 PM »

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I haven't been posting, but I have been down for about a week. I just got caught up on the posts, and thank you for all the great comments and sites.

I am reading the book along with you all and am enjoying it tremendously, but now have to play catch-up.

Evelyn

Babi · « **Reply #144 on:** January 19, 2009, 09:51:23 AM »

Glad you're feeling better, EVELYN. It's no fun being ill. Enjoy the rest of the story; we are about to meet the terrible hound of the Baskervilles.

Phyll · « **Reply #145 on:** January 19, 2009, 10:56:53 AM »

My O.E.D. cites an Anglo French word, "clappier" meaning a heap of stones as one root word for clapper. The word "clapper" apparently is applied to many things but this seems to be the closest to why it is called a Clapper Bridge. It is a heap of stones laid across a stream. Some of those stones weigh tons--can you imagine what a labor it was to transport them and place them? Probably with nothing but horsepower and manpower and perhaps some sort of crude leverage system.

I'm falling behind with the story. I haven't finished Ch. 10 yet and in this discussion we should be talking about 11-15. I must find some time today to catch up!

Brian · « **Reply #146 on:** January 19, 2009, 02:19:15 PM »

I have been looking, without success, for the answers to the Rats of Sumatra quiz which I posted earlier, but I found a "clickable" quiz on our book which you may wish to try : -

http://www.triv.net/html/Users1/u3932.htm

Brian

PatH · « **Reply #147 on:** January 19, 2009, 09:12:31 PM »

I'm a little hampered in saying anything because I've finished and not everyone has, and I don't want to spoil things for any lucky soul who is reading this for the first time. Where is everyone?

But I have one question we can all think about: how fair do you think Doyle was, and how much do you think it matters?

Brian · « **Reply #148 on:** January 19, 2009, 10:53:16 PM »

Pat - - - you said earlier that you had already taken Dr Schwarz's quiz on the Hound of the Baskervilles. Did you find out the correct answers? The quiz was originally posted in 2007, and it mentioned that "The answers will be posted - - - next week".

I have searched the net without success ( I was going to say without avail - but I've run out of that commodity!)

I printed out my answers and would like to check them.

Brian.

PatH · « **Reply #149 on:** January 20, 2009, 07:06:31 AM »

I'll check them from the book as soon as I get a chance, probably later today.

BillH · « **Reply #150 on:** January 20, 2009, 10:39:23 AM »

Evelyn, good to hear from you.

BillH · « **Reply #151 on:** January 20, 2009, 11:00:45 AM »

"For a moment or two I sat breathless, hardly able to believe my ears. Then my senses and my voice came back to me, while a crushing weight of responsibility seemed in an instant to be lifted from my soul. That cold, incisive, ironical voice could belong to but one man in all the world.
"Holmes!" I cried -- "Holmes!"
"Come out," said he, "and please be careful with the revolver."

Chapter 12 opens with Holmes revealing himself to Watson on the moor.

I felt Doyle did a subtle and masterful job of bringing the reader along by writing the middle section of the novel without the presences of Sherlock Holmes. Through the rest of the characters from Watson, Sir Henry, the Barrymores, etc, Conan Doyle was able to create the moody and mysterious atmosphere of The Hound of the Baskervilles without Sherlock.

Do you believe the story would have been better or not as good if Holmes had accompanied Watson and Sir Henry from London to Baskerville Hall?

JoanK · « **Reply #152 on:** January 20, 2009, 02:36:10 PM »

Not as good. I like the change of tone when Watson is working by himself versus with Homes

PatH · « **Reply #153 on:** January 20, 2009, 10:18:53 PM »

I agree with you, Joan. And the atmosphere of gloom , mystery, suspicion, and terror wouldn't build up so smoothly if Holmes had been there detecting.

BillH · « **Reply #154 on:** January 21, 2009, 07:23:31 AM »

The discussion of The Hound of the Baskervilles will end Friday, January 23rd.

I feel it would be well to use the remaining days to discuss the end of the story, focusing our thoughts on chapter Fourteen, aptly named "The Hound of the Baskervilles." Also it would be well to consider the Stapletons of Merripit House and their relationship to each other.

In chapter fourteen Conan Doyle calls forth a state of extreme emotions and feelings in the characters of the story as the Hound is laid to rest

The edition of my book contains Chapter 15, "A Retrospection." So if any of you would care to linger on a few days past Jan, 23rd. I'll be here for you.

Bill H

Babi · « **Reply #155 on:** January 21, 2009, 09:43:29 AM »

I took the quiz on our story, and did fine up to the point where it asked what
Holmes said that would sound odd today. I didn't remember him saying any of those things, and picked the wrong one.

I agree with Pat and JoanK, keeping Holmes out of the picture during most of the book worked out beautifully.
The Stapletons of Merripit house have been an odd pair from the beginning. Our little butterfly chaser is far too possessive of his sister, and she seems to be conflicted between loyalty to him and a desire to protect Sir Henry. Which has to suggest that Stapleton is a threat to Sir Henry, doesn't it?

Brian · « **Reply #156 on:** January 21, 2009, 11:34:38 AM »

Halloa! Babi - - - did you try the first quiz ? It had 20 questions and was a more thorough test of one's knowledge of the book. It even had one extra bonus question.

I am waiting for Pat to post the site where we can check the answers.

I think we should definitely talk about the Retrospective chapter, as Conan Doyle cheats a little by bringing up clues that were not mentioned in the body of the book.

Overall, it is my favourite novellette, and is extremely neatly crafted. Dr Watson gets more opportunity to shine than he does in any of the others with the possible exception of the death of Moriarty and Holmes himself.

Brian.

PatH · « **Reply #157 on:** January 21, 2009, 12:20:53 PM »

Babi, I did the same thing you did on that quiz, which put me into a loop I could only get out of by exiting the site. Then I went back in and got all the questions.

Brian's first quiz, which is in Post #125, is much more interesting. I'm working on checking the answers now. Shall I post them here, or email them to you, Brian? I have issues with question 1.

PatH · « **Reply #158 on:** January 21, 2009, 12:24:57 PM »

The Retrospective Chapter is not optional, it's a standard ending for detective stories, in which the detective and all the survivors sit down together and he explains everything. You get a chance to see all the clues you missed, and learn all the detective's reasoning, which he has been hiding from you in order to make the story more suspenseful. We definitely should discuss it.

Brian · « **Reply #159 on:** January 21, 2009, 12:46:54 PM »

Pat - - - I would be happy either way, I just would like to see if I made 100%.

Is there a URL for the answers page?

I don't think I had a problem with the first question; Sherlock Holmes had already deduced that Dr Mortimer was likely to be young, he was just surprised to see that he was tall, thin, and slovenly.

Brian.

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Author Topic: Hound of Baskervilles by A. Conan Doyle (Read 61550 times)