Author Topic: Hound of Baskervilles by A. Conan Doyle (Read 61360 times)

BillH · « **Reply #80 on:** January 08, 2009, 08:59:06 PM »

The Hound of the
Baskervilles
by
A. Conan Doyle

"Sherlock Holmes' most famous case, the Hound of the Baskervilles, was set on foggy Dartmoor, and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle got much of the inspiration for the book from real-life people and places - as well as folklore.

The first episodes of Sherlock Holmes' best known adventure - were published in The Strand Magazine starting in August 1901." http://classiclit.about.com

Links:
Free Online Version - The Hound of the Baskervilles
Official web site ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Literary Estate.
Sydney Paget Drawings: Archive
The Sherlock Holmes Museum

Schedule:
Jan. 2nd --- Jan. 8th Chapters: 1 -- 5
Jan. 9th --- Jan. 15th Chapters: 6 -- 10
Jan. 16th --- Jan. 22st Chapters 11 -- 15

Discussion Leaders: BillH and fairanna

gingerw · « **Reply #81 on:** January 09, 2009, 01:01:05 AM »

Thanks Bill I will give it a try,

gingerw · « **Reply #82 on:** January 09, 2009, 02:08:04 AM »

It is working now, thanks Bill.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #83 on:** January 09, 2009, 02:50:50 AM »

It is one of those nights when I am unable to sleep so I read the next two chapters of our book. We have the same suspects I believe - the Barrymores, Dr. Mortimer and the Stapletons, a brother/sister who have a strange relationship. Isn't it a bit suspicious why they are living on the moor?

And Mr. Stapleton is very curious; asks a lot of questions, but then one would I imagine.

The Barrymores apparently came into some money upon the death of Sir Charles because they are leaving and going into business. And why is Mrs. Barrymore crying?

Clues - the lost boot and the moan of woman in the night?

Actually, I don't get the sense that the moor is a melancholy place; it could be a lovely place to hike upon and observe all the varying kinds of brush, butterflies, birds, etc. And it could be a very romantic place in the evening. I think we believe it is dangerous and gloomy simply because there has been a murder there and because Watson believes it is so.

Of course, those sinkholes sound rather dreadful and the naturalist seemed to take the fact of the pony wandering in there and drowning rather mildly, don't you think?

Babi · « **Reply #84 on:** January 09, 2009, 09:16:35 AM »

BILL, I was interested in Bruce Brooks analysis of the paragraph you quoted.
I found that particular paragraph described the moor and set the scene very well. My reaction to it was as mixed as my reaction to the moors. The image of 'fleshy harts-tongue ferns' was slightly unpleasant, while the 'bronzing bracken' was pleasing. Noisy streams are cheerful things. I have never found autumn gloomy, but exuberant with color. (The gray, chill, wet days are an exception of course.) Perhaps there is not much color in autumn on the moors.
I agree with Mr. Brooks, that there is much more to this paragraph than simply a device to get our characters to Baskervill Hall. Any story that confined itself to the mechanics of events without background, description and emotional reactions would be brief, boring, and ineffective, to say the least.

EvelynMC · « **Reply #85 on:** January 09, 2009, 12:57:40 PM »

That paragraph was so descriptive, it gave a "you are there" feel. I found myself mentally bouncing along in the wagon, taking in all the scenery, wondering what lies ahead...very good writing.

Evelyn

BillH · « **Reply #86 on:** January 09, 2009, 06:16:29 PM »

Ginger, I'm glad the AUDIO is working for you.

Ella, your post excelently intrdoduces the new character: Stapletons, and Barymoors. For me the Barrymores, at first glance,the Barymores lends a more mystery to Baskerville Hall.

I suppose the moors comes accrs as gloomy and melancholy becuse so Doyle and other authors use the envornment to add a depth of mystery to their stories.

Perhaps not to many naturalist read the story about the poor poney.

BillH · « **Reply #87 on:** January 09, 2009, 06:39:03 PM »

On the day of Watson and young Henry's departure for Baskerville Hall, Sherlock offers this advise to Dr. Watson"

"One thing only appears to be certain, and that is that Mr. James Desmond, who is the next heir, is an elderly gentleman of a very amiable disposition, so that this persecution does not arise from him. I really think that we may eliminate him entirely from our calculations"

I sort of tend to disagree with Holmes dismissing out of hand Mr. Desmond as one of the suspects. Even though Desmond is of an amiable disposition shouldn't cloud Holmes' deduction of the gentlemen. He is, after all, the next heir. I'm sure many people of amiable dispositions have committed crimes of murder for riches.

"Our friends had already secured a first-class carriage and were waiting for us upon the platform."

I have often thought how pleasant rail travel must've been in the Victorian age when passengers of good financial means could secure a first-class carriage for their private use. I would've liked to travel in that mode. Do any of you know if it is still possible to secure that type of rail travel in England?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #88 on:** January 09, 2009, 07:18:15 PM »

Hi Bill!

You are right, we must NOT dismiss any suspect in this story. I haven't finished our assigned chapters yet, it's fun to read the book like this, chapter by chapter.

Yes, I rode a train similar to the Victorian age -well, in my mind anyway. Not a first class carriage - I'm not sure what that would be, but................

About 10 years ago we took a train from Rome to Vienna and I was enchanted! It had a long corridor to one side with wide windows all along it and then doors opening off of it into little sitting rooms. Little private sitting rooms just as in the movies! I felt like a star and as if I should have had a long dress on with a huge hat with feathers and a boa around my neck, button shoes! It was fun.

What would a first class carriage look like?

Brian · « **Reply #89 on:** January 09, 2009, 07:42:03 PM »

When I was in England 40 years ago, we had Ist Class and 3rd Class carriages only.
2nd Class having disappeared long ago.

Here's a picture of an old 1st Class carriage : -

Brian.

PatH · « **Reply #90 on:** January 09, 2009, 08:07:54 PM »

I haven't read the next chapters yet either, mean to do so shortly, but in the meantime: I was in a bookstore today and saw "Sherlock Holmes was Wrong" by Pierre Bayard, a slim volume which evidently retells "Hound", coming up with a different murderer. No one who hasn't read the Doyle should touch it, because from the first page it has plot spoilers, but if my library has it, I'll get it and read it toward the end of the discussion, in order to report on it.

kidsal · « **Reply #91 on:** January 10, 2009, 08:45:46 AM »

Found an error in description of map showing area around Baskerville home-- called it a large scale map. A large scale map for instance would be 1:100 (for example 1 inch equals 100 miles) - small scale would be 1:10 (1 inch equals 10 miles). So a large scale map does not show more detail.

Babi · « **Reply #92 on:** January 10, 2009, 09:59:28 AM »

BILL, Mr. Desmond, the amiable gentleman, is also an elderly gentleman. It doesn't seem likely that he would have the strength and energy to pursue the persecution we are seeing at BAskerville Hall. Besides, would Doyle ever permit Sherlock Holmes to be mistaken on a judgment call like this? I am perfectly willing to dismiss Mr. Desmond as a suspect.

The Barrymore's are more interesting. I think their affection and regard for their late master is entirely sincere, but I found it strange that they were planning to retire ASAP. I feel sure they know something more than they are saying.

It is obvious that the late Lord of Baskerville Hall died of fright. He must have seen something terrifying. I've been looking at pictures of the largest breed of hound, the wolfhounds, and while they are big, there is certainly nothing frightening about them. Or course, the poor man was so fearful of the 'hound of the Baskervilles' that his imagination may have magnified what he actually saw. On the other hand, those paw prints were described as 'huge'.

I noted in my library yesterday a series of juvenile books called "Match Wits With Sherlock Holmes". The books each presented a mystery, including a listing of 'clues' at the end of chapters. The young reader was encouraged to solve the mystery, and see if he/she came to the same conclusion as Mr. Holmes. I thought that was a terrific idea. If I still had 'juveniles' in my family, I'd buy these for them.

PatH · « **Reply #93 on:** January 10, 2009, 10:54:26 AM »

Babi has gotten me on the watch for bits of gentle humor. Here's another:

Dr. Mortimer: "I usually give up one day to pure amusement when I come to town, so I spent it at the Museum of the College of Surgeons."

BillH · « **Reply #94 on:** January 10, 2009, 01:49:33 PM »

Ella, that train trip to Rome sounds so inviting.." Was your your Rome bound train anything like the one in the movie "The orient Express?"

Brian, thank you for the graphic of a 1st Class carriage. A gracious accommodation for train travel in those days.

PatH, thank you for telling us about "Sherlock Holmes Was Wrong." I'd like to read that one too.

Kidsal, very sharp to notice that about the scale of the map.

Babi, I too wondered why the Barrymores chose not to stay on for new owner. Right off that seemed to cast a suspicious aura about them.

"Match Wits with Sherlock Holmes." Hmmm, sounds interesting. I wonder if I could find the clues.

BillH · « **Reply #95 on:** January 10, 2009, 02:07:42 PM »

Holmes tells Watson to simply report the facts to him:

"Anything which may seem to have a bearing however indirect upon the case, and especially the relations between young Baskerville and his neighbours or any fresh particulars concerning the death of Sir Charles

If they are innocent (The Barrymors) it would be a cruel injustice, and if they are guilty we should be giving up all chance of bringing it home to them. No, no, we will preserve them upon our list of suspects. Then there is a groom at the Hall, if I remember right. There are two moorland farmers. There is our friend Dr. Mortimer, whom I believe to be entirely honest, and there is his wife, of whom we know nothing. There is this naturalist, Stapleton, and there is his sister, who is said to be a young lady of attractions. There is Mr. Frankland, of Lafter Hall, who is also an unknown factor, and there are one or two other neighbours. These are the folk who must be your very special study."

Just for the fun of it, Whom do you believe among those listed above would lest likely profit from the young heirs death?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #96 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:47:06 PM »

Bill, I still haven't read any more chapters, but this is fun, as a book discussion should be.

Two women in this story! Now, you know when women appear there is something mysterious going on; we have the slim, dark and beautiful sister of the naturalist and we have the doctor's wife whom we have not been introduced to in the story. Well! We shall see.

BRIAN! What a carriage! It hardly seems substantial enough to be drawn on a track with other trains. It sits so high off the ground, I notice a little step up but I would have trouble getting in it I'm sure. But what a lovely thing. Is that a seat or a luggage rack on top?

PatH · « **Reply #97 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:54:48 PM »

Three women. We also have Mrs. Barrymore, who weeps in the middle of the night, but the Barrymores won't admit it.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #98 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:56:44 PM »

BILL, the trains in Europe are simply magnificent, the stations are huge and most trains are very modern, very fast; so I was surprised by this one that we traveled on. You buy your tickets in town ahead of time at an office - you cannot buy them at the staion. Then you arrive at this cavernous train station and wait by your track.

I tried to find an image of one onlline similar to the one we traveled on, but couldn't. It wasn't a very long trip - gosh, I'll have to ask my daughter for more details. She has a better memory than I do. I remember that the track ended where we got off, it was the end of the line. Further than that and the train would have gone into the canals.

JoanK · « **Reply #99 on:** January 10, 2009, 07:48:25 PM »

I rode on th Orient Express from Switzerland to Greece 45 years ago. As poor students, my husband and I rode third class. But they still had the corridors and small rooms -- holding about six.

I've read Chapters 5-10, and I had to exert all my self control not to read on. I've really been drawn in. I was interested in how Doyle creates atmosphere, too. He alternates gloomy scenes with ones that are more cheerful so I was always hoping things would cheer up, and never got used to the gloom.

JoanK · « **Reply #100 on:** January 10, 2009, 07:59:30 PM »

I can now start to answer the question about Doyle's treatment of women. So far, all of the women introduced are completely dependent on whatever man they are living with or involved with. We come to one woman who doesn't have a man of her own, and so must throw herself on unrelated ones. This does reflect the financial situation of middle/upper class women in Victorian England.

As far as the men go, the Naturalist seems quite as dependent on dominating his sister as she is on being dominated. But the many men who don't have a woman manage quite well.

Babi · « **Reply #101 on:** January 11, 2009, 10:36:05 AM »

At this point, BILL, it's hard to see how any of the listed suspects could profit from Sir Henry's death. Which, of course, is part of the mystery.

I found Stapleton's behavior re. his sister decidedly odd. He behaves as though he were jealous of her, which sends alarm signals flaring in my mind. It also seemed as though the sister was trying to warn Sir Henry about something, but changed the subject when the brother appeared. Which is another red flag to me regarding Stapleton.

BillH · « **Reply #102 on:** January 11, 2009, 12:28:17 PM »

I will try and respond to all of your fine posts later today. But right now I have to go and watch a lot of football.

Bill H

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #103 on:** January 11, 2009, 01:51:34 PM »

I have read two more chapters:

Very stealthily we heard it pass along until it died away in the distance. Then the baronet gently opened his door and we set out in pursuit. Already our man had gone round the gallery and the corridor was all in darkness. Softly we stole along until we had come into the other wing. We were just in time to catch a glimpse of the tall, black-bearded figure, his shoulders rounded as he tiptoed down the passage. Then he passed through the same door as before, and the light of the candle framed it in the darkness and shot one single yellow beam across the gloom of the corridor. We shuffled cautiously towards it,

What atmosphere Doyle was able to conjure up for the reader.

The story begins to eliminate suspects as in the Barrymores and the escaped convict. Mr. Frankland is still interesting isn't he? It appears he needs money and he is line for the inheritance, which may mean nothing at all.

That business of the Stapletons is going to be fun to read about.

PatH · « **Reply #104 on:** January 11, 2009, 03:55:23 PM »

I'm not sure we can eliminate the Barrymores. Just because they have one guilty secret doesn't mean they don't have another.

Babi · « **Reply #105 on:** January 12, 2009, 09:30:17 AM »

The 'Hound' does seem to have more atmosphere than most of the Holmes stories, doesn't it? Of course, I believe it is also the longest. Maybe the others were trimmed down to mostly essentials for the sake of brevity.

Good point, PatH. Authors can get sneaky that way, sometimes. Make you think you've solved that mystery, only to find it's a cover.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #106 on:** January 12, 2009, 11:00:31 AM »

Well, shucks, Pat and Babi. I thought I was onto a "sure" thing with the Barrymores but you two are making me more suspicious than I ever was that Doyle is playing with the reader.

BillH · « **Reply #107 on:** January 12, 2009, 11:49:34 AM »

"Welcome, Sir Henry!"

Young Henry's thoughts as the cart approached Baskerville Hall:

"Through the gateway we passed into the avenue, where the wheels were again hushed amid the leaves, and the old trees shot their branches in a somber tunnel over our heads. Baskerville shuddered as he looked up the long, dark drive to where the house glimmered like a ghost at the farther end.

The avenue opened into a broad expanse of turf, and the house lay before us. In the fading light I could see that the center was a heavy block of building from which a porch projected. The whole front was draped in ivy, with a patch clipped bare here and there where a window or a coat of arms broke through the dark veil. From this central block rose the twin towers, ancient, crenellated, and pierced with many loopholes. To right and left of the turrets were more modern wings of black granite. A dull light shone through heavy mullioned windows, and from the high chimneys which rose from the steep, high-angled roof there sprang a single black column of smoke."

After Sir Henry witnessed the ominous structure of Baskerville Hall he was greeted at the door by the equally somber appearance of Barrymore. I couldn't help but think , Sir Henry is no longer a happy camper.

I don't know why but when I saw Sydney Paget's drawing of Barrymore at the door of the Hall I was reminded of one of the Brahm Stoker tales.

As Ella pointed out, "What atmosphere Doyle was able to conjure up for the reader."

BillH · « **Reply #108 on:** January 12, 2009, 12:03:28 PM »

Folks, I should have pointed this out a few days ago. We are know discussing Chapters 6-10, Jan. 9th through Jan.15th. However, better late than never.

Babi · « **Reply #109 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:51:38 AM »

One has to assume that black granite was a readily available and inexpensive building material. I can't think of any other reason one would build a black stone house. Brrr! Sir Henry needs to get a landscaper in there to break up that cold, dark image with some cheerful color. I assume something cheerful will grow there.
I like the small illustrations you post, BILL. They so perfectly reflect the images we are getting from the story, and are so true to the times.
I was a little surprised that Watson's first assumption, on finding Barrymore at a window at night with a light, was that he was trying to see something outside. A light at night is so obviously a signal to someone out there in the dark.

fairanna · « **Reply #110 on:** January 13, 2009, 03:07:31 PM »

I have read all the posts and have to say everyone is suggesting and thinking the same as I ...it was hard to stop since I only have a couple chapters left to finish the story ..Just as I think of a suspect the story says I am wrong I keep trying to recall the end from my reading this so many years ago and will tell you what I feel

First I want to tell you I am glad I am reading in the day because Doyle's descriptions are so well done he makes me feel I am THERE I can tell you I would have left as soon as possible if I had felt what I feel when reading ...

My memory of the ending is not that I recall who done it but a feeling that Holmes deduction and telling WHO DONE it was because we didn't have all the clues I keep feeling it was very convoluted and not who I thought it would be but also I keep feeling when Holmes solves it I felt WELL IF I HAS KNOWN THAT I WOULD HAVE GUESSED IT TOO>..makes me laugh I am approaching the end but am delaying because I love the suspense ...it is a delicious tale and so well told for me I feel I am there ...Bill you chose well ....and everyone has made wonderful contributions to the discussion .....fairanna

BillH · « **Reply #111 on:** January 13, 2009, 03:42:42 PM »

Cromer Hall

As I read the story, I wondered what Baskerville Hall looked like. Was there a Paget drawing or some other graphic that might show me? So I did a google and I learned that the above Cromer Hall and the existence of a legend of a hound, albeit in another story, that inspired Conan Doyle to write this novel. You may find my following post to be of interest. It is a copy and paste from the encyclopedia so any mistakes in spelling or literature are not mine.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"Conan Doyle's description of Baskerville Hall was inspired by a visit to Cromer Hall in Norfolk

During their visit to Cromer, Conan Doyle and Betram Fletcher Robinson had dinner with Benjamin Bond Bond Cabbell at Cromer Hall. During dinner Cabbell told them about his ancestor, Richard Cabbell - Lord of Brook Manor and Buckfastleigh - who had been killed by a devilish dog. The story went that Richard Cabbell's wife had been unfaithful and that, Conan Doyle's description of Baskerville Hall bears an uncanny likeness to Cromer Hall.
After beating her, she had fled out onto Dartmoor. Cabbell pursued her and stabbed her - but while committing the murder his wife's faithful dog attacked him and tore out his throat. The ghost of the dog was said to haunt Dartmoor and to reappear to each generation of the Cabbell family. It is clear that Richard Cabbell became the model for the evil Hugo Baskerville in Conan Doyle's classic tale.

There is also another fascinating Norfolk connection - namely that the coachman who drove Conan Doyle to Cromer Hall was apparently called Baskerville. Conan Doyle often drew his character's names from real life - as demonstrated by his use of the name Cubitt in The Dancing Men - see Happisburgh.

Conan Doyle would almost certainly have been aware too of the Norfolk legend of Black Shuck - the terrible Hound which terrorised parts of the county. The legend went that anyone looking into the eyes of the hound only had a year to live...."

If you wish to read the this interesting article in it's entirety, please use this link.

http://www.literarynorfolk.co.uk/cromer_hall.htm

JoanK · « **Reply #112 on:** January 13, 2009, 07:20:24 PM »

Once you've finished the book, you might enjoy reading Robin Paige's "Death at Dartmoor". Paige (pen name of Susan Albert and her historian husband) writes Victorian novels, each one containing an actual historical figure. In this one, the fictional characters join with Conen Doyle in solving a murder on the moors: many details of Doyle's life, and parallel's to "Hound". Warnings:Don't read before finishing "Hound" (spoilers). And you may not like the portrayal of Conen Doyle, who comes off badly in Paige's hands (probably joelous of his writing skill).

It looks as if the picture on the cover is the same Cromer Hall.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/p/robin-paige/death-at-dartmoor.htm

Babi · « **Reply #113 on:** January 14, 2009, 09:28:18 AM »

Fascinating bits of history and legend there, BILL. Cromer Hall does not appear as dark as I have imagined Baskerville Hall to be. Still very heavy, very massive, tho'. I wonder what the coachman, Baskerville, thought when he found his name playing a prominent part in Doyle's story.

Phyll · « **Reply #114 on:** January 14, 2009, 02:09:16 PM »

Excerpt from Chapter 6:

"I saw his dark face lit up with a boyish enthusiasm as he gazed about him. The light beat upon him where he stood, but long shadows trailed down the walls and hung like a black canopy above him."

This is only one of the sentences that Conan Doyle uses to convey the sinister. Sir Henry, on seeing his ancestral home, is "lit up with boyish enthusiam", but "long shadows trailed down the walls and hung like a black canopy above him." The reader just KNOWS that something wicked this way comes and that Sir Henry is in danger.

And Conan Doyle's description of the dining hall makes it sound like a place that would give the diners indigestion. Not a pleasant place for eating a meal, it seems!

Then, after going to bed Dr. Watson hears;

"And then suddenly, in the very dead of the night, there came a sound to my ears, clear, resonant, and unmistakable. It was the sob of a woman, the muffled, strangling gasp of one who is torn by an uncontrollable sorrow."

It reminds me so much of Jane Eyre and the sounds coming from the top of Thornwood Hall---that same shivery, creepy feeling that I got when I first read Bronte's words.

I love this descriptive style of writing and I can understand why this particular story remains in the memory of anyone who has ever read it.

PatH · « **Reply #115 on:** January 14, 2009, 09:01:19 PM »

My husband first read "Hound" as a teenager. He was sitting on the porch, on a broiling hot Illinois summer day, and he realized he was shivering, and really wanted a sweater. The atmosphere works.

During his final illness, I read a lot of things aloud to him, including "Hound". That's a good test of a book--bad language really shows up, and "Hound" was one of the best. It stands up to a lot of rereading (I had reread it several times before).

BillH · « **Reply #116 on:** January 15, 2009, 12:22:29 PM »

"And then suddenly, in the very dead of the night, there came a sound to my ears, clear, resonant, and unmistakable. It was the sob of a woman, the muffled, strangling gasp of one who is torn by an uncontrollable sorrow."

Phyll, when I read this in the novel, I thought for sure someone was being held prisoner in one of the rooms of Baskerville. And, after reading your post, I do remember that passage from Jayne Eyre.

PatH, that was a very touching post.

BillH · « **Reply #117 on:** January 15, 2009, 05:09:54 PM »

Tomorrow, Jan. 16th thru Jan. 23, will begin the third and last week of this discussion.

During this week we will discuss Chapters 11 thru 15.

JoanK · « **Reply #118 on:** January 15, 2009, 10:21:21 PM »

I finished the book last night. I have to say, I agree with Anna -- in spite of Sherlock's reputation for clever deduction, I don't think he left the reader any clues by which he could have guessed the solution. What do the rest of you think?

(but the stolen boots were nice -- even if they don't tell you "who-donnit.". And there was one clue of atmosphere.

Babi · « **Reply #119 on:** January 16, 2009, 09:07:53 AM »

I confess I thought the boot was stolen to leave a suspicious footprint somewhere, and that the older boot would leave a more distinctive tread. Ah well, at least I had a theory, even if it turned out to be wrong. $:-\$

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Author Topic: Hound of Baskervilles by A. Conan Doyle (Read 61360 times)