Author Topic: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform  (Read 102581 times)

bellemere

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #200 on: August 18, 2009, 09:41:23 AM »
It looks like we are not going to have the choice of a public plan; the insurance companies are salivating at the idea of 47 million new customers, many of them subsidized by government funds but somehow that is not socialized medicine.  All those elderly people screaming no government health care with their Medicare cards in their pockets!
Sarah Palin? Her vocation as a rabble rouser is disgusting. What constructive idea has she ever offered?
Canadians coming for elective surgery?  How do you think they pay for it?  Their egg money?  They bring their Canadian health insurance cards with them, of course. \
Rationing willhappen, public or private plan.  Aetna, Blue Cross, they all deny certain things based on state of health or age.  "Surgical risk" etc, lots of good reasons. " 
Consultation on end of life issues would be reimbursable to doctors as a covered service.   No one likes to think of dying, but there it is. 
Shortage of general practitioners?  Yes, that will go on if fee for service does not cover such consultations. \
I am one of th few who wil lose something, my Medicare Advantage Plan, which has bee satisfactory.  But even I can see fluff in it: reimbursment for Weight Watchers, nice but not necessary; health club discounts while I prefer to suppor my community YMCA; a new pair of glasses every year for very low price ; not necessary for most people. 
Co-ops:  these could be a good compromise. For a time.They will have tremendous marketing start up costs, but will be eligible for grants that cannot go to private corporations or government entities.  Some areas of the cont;ry will welcome them, I can see them in Vermont or Maine or Minnesota and Wisconsin.  Others will consider them communisitic.  I believe my retirement plan. TIAA CREF is a mlutual co-op and it is the greatest.
Do you think it is time to "pull the Plug " on this discussion?  Or at least suspend it until the recess is over?  I need time to stud;y it all, and want to thank Adoannie for forwarding the sites. 

pedln

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #201 on: August 18, 2009, 10:20:42 AM »
Quote
Do you think it is time to "pull the Plug " on this discussion?  Or at least suspend it until the recess is over?  I need time to stud;y it all,

Let US NOT decide to pull the plug on this discussion, but rather leave it in place until it is no longer being visited and/or accessed.

I’ll be the first to admit there is much I don’t understand about this whole reform movement, but I think it would be unfortunate if it did not offer a public plan.  Now they are talking about co-ops; on CNN this am a gentleman from Washington State was expounding on how successful they were there.  If they go that route, I think they’ll end up with a lot of weak entities as opposed to a stronger platform with just one public program.  Why not start with the public program and then slowly build a network or co-ops if there appears to be a need for such.

Steph, I’ll ditto all your remarks about Sarah Palin.

pedln

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #202 on: August 18, 2009, 10:36:07 AM »
All the comments about the “end of life” counseling bring to mind a Children’s/YA book that was popular several years ago, and is still highly recommended as a class read.  The Giver by Lois Lowry --  have any of you read it?  It’s not really sci-fi, but more a tale of a future society where life is deemed to be free and enjoyable because we no longer have to make decisions.

While visiting family earlier this month I started a book recommended by my DIL – Complications: a surgeon’s notes on an imperfect science by Atul Gawande, a surgical resident.  It’s very anecdotal. He talks about training, learning, performance, patients, mistakes, but overall there seems to be a focus on expectations and outcomes.

bellamarie

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #203 on: August 18, 2009, 12:12:42 PM »
Steph, I too have been a femiist my enitre adult life.  I worked for Hillary Clinton's headquarters thorughout the campaign up to the very day she dropped out.  I am not for legalized abortion and so I don't find Palin offensive what so ever.  I don't see her as working the system, no more than any politician.  I do feel because she is a woman she has taken udwarranted attacks especially by other women.  I didn't feel she paraded her children, and I for one enjoyed seeing she was proud to show the public her new baby.  I saw him as a new baby, nothing more.  I am able to look over his disability and see the joys the family had in holding him.  As for her daughter Piper, I loved seeing her, as much as I saw Carolline Kennedy when she was a child.  I applaud Bristol for coming out and going public with her teen pregnancy and to inform the teens out here that it is not all galmor and glitz, it is a tough job to be a teen Mom, it changes your llife and you have to be responsible for another human being when you are just barely a young adult yourself.  I did not see it hyprocritcal, I saw it as an opportunity to get the message out that abstinence is a full, foul proof way to prevent unwanted pregnancies.  My daughter in law got pregnant when she was in her senior year of high school.  She chose to keep our beautiful now 13 yr old grand daughter rather than take the easy route and abort.  My daughter in law now works as a case worker with unmarried, teen mothers in a Healthy Start Help Me Grow program to help these mothers and babies have productive lives regardless of their circimstance.  I don't see her pulbic work as being hypcritical.  She, like Bristol Palin, took an opportunity to help others to possibly not be in the same situation they found themselves in.  Ideally, I think every parent teaches abstinence to their teens, and realistically, they hope they will at least use some form of protection if they choose to not abstain.  We give them the information, but as many parents know, they don't always practice it.  I am willing to see the Palin's situation as a "teaching moment."  Baby Trig has made more people in this country more aware and sensitive to Downs Syndrome, he has heightened the compassion in  people by being visual. 

As I stated, I voted Democratic my entire adult life, this election has caused many a person grow to hate and act out in defense of party loyalty like I have never witnessed before.  I am a Christian before I am any political party member.  My mother taught me if I don't have something nice to say about someone, then don't say anything at all.  Personal attacks on the Palin family shows the lack of discipline and Christianity in this country.  It saddens me to see it and hear it.  Since this election I will never allow myself to be attached with any one party ever again.  Neither party has shown me they can put the best interest of the American people first.  This health care reform bill they are trying to pass is NOT UNIVERSAL or we would all have the same coverage as any congressman/woman, senator, and the President.  WHY are they not willing to give every American the same health care program they themselves have?  WHY aren't we entitled to have the same as them?  What makes them better than us?  We elect these politicians to work for US, to speak for US, to do what is in OUR best interest....instead they put theirselves, their party and their special interests ahead of US.  As you stated, No, I simply cannot abide them.  So thats that....respectively.

I was directed here to discuss health reform, I was disappointed to see the personal attacks on Palin.  My apologies for allowing myself to be sidetracked.  As a feminist, I just could not sit back quietly and see another woman being personally attacked, regardless of who she is.  Men are wise, if they disagree they diplomatically state their differences rather than take personal attacks at each other.  When women are able to do that, we will get further along in all sectors of life.  Hillary, Palin, Pelosi, etc. etc. all women trying to make it in the political arena and being ridiculed, degraded, and mocked, yes, by other women.  Men won't take us seriously and see our intelligence or accomplishments, when we don't take each other seriously.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellemere

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #204 on: August 18, 2009, 12:52:41 PM »
Sarah Palin has a find future as a mother, a spoksperson for her view of family life, and a speaker to audiences of conservative values.  As President of the United States ?  I don't think so. And maybe Eunice Kennedy Shriver did more for the lives of Downs Syndrome people than she ever will.
But truy, she is a distraction from the Health Care Reform.  I cannot see anything controlling cost escalation.  I am waiting for the other shoe to fall for my own insurance fate.  If there is a public option with a Medicare supplement, I may be the first enrollee. 
Funny, Bellemarie, our names so similar, our views rather different.  My name, bellemere, is French for mother in law, and a tribute to the five nice guys who married my daughters.   




bellamarie

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #205 on: August 18, 2009, 02:29:41 PM »
bellemere,   Yes, it is funny how close our names are similar and our views rather different.  My name is Italian and stands for "beautiful Maria", my father who was Italian named me Annabella Marie after my Mom, Annabelle who was southern. She wanted me named after her and he wanted it to be Italian so they agreed on Anna-bella (Anna beautiful). I go by my middle name Marie, so for my screen name I chose "beautiful Marie" As for your views on Palin I will chuckle and say, many a women were not taken seriously in politics and called worse,  I am discussing the first woman cabinet member Frances Perkins and she had many hurdles to jump.  I suppose many thought she would not go far and surprise!  Eunice Kennedy did indeed do much for the cause, but now that she is gone it won't hurt to have anyone especially a public figure such as Sara Palin to further the cause.  I won't count her out or in at this point as far as her political future.  I don't see Palin as a distraction to the reform, she obviously made a strong argument against the "end of life" portion because they are now saying it will be taken out.  This Independent doesn't mind listening to either party for different points of views.  I just don't approve of personal attacks on anyone.

We all have a personal vested interest in this health care reform bill.  It seems the biggest supporters of it (liberal dems) are now backing down because the President has sent a subtle message he may not be for what they were aiming for.  Like I said, this is a very complex program, everyone needs to take a deep breath, slow down and get it right.  Americans will accept it as long as they see it not catering to the special interest groups and taking more from them.  It should never be about a party loyalty, it should be about the American people.  

Five daughters, wow how nice!  I have one, and two daughter in laws.  We women don't always agree in politics, but we do respect each other and agree to disagree at times.

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

nlhome

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #206 on: August 18, 2009, 07:50:52 PM »
Steph, I agree with you about Sarah Palin. I cannot respect her. I also cannot respect the Republicans who nominated her - that they had so little concern for our country that they would actually consider someone like her as vice president, the next in line.

And Bellemere, I agree with you that people are confused, which makes them anxious. The bill needs to be simplified. But I disagreee with you about the polls. I'm not sure what you are referring to, but on an NPR program today, the polls are certainly not what you are talking about. People do want reform. However, some are confused. Others want reform as long as it doesn't affect them. Well, that's just plain selfish.

I have great health care. It costs me next to nothing, just an occasional co-pay and not very often. But I recognize that it's unfair that I have such good coverage, while my children don't have any.

I don't think you can say the current administration has failed at anything. There are so many things wrong that are leftovers from the previous administration - 7 months is not a very long time. The Cash for Clunkers is very successful - too bad there are not more programs like it that give people hope.

bellemere

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #207 on: August 18, 2009, 09:01:19 PM »
Are we all agreed that everyone should have health insurance, and that the insurance should provide the same quality of care for all people: elderly, poor, disabled, rich, healthy, young,  No tiers of care unless a person wants extra luxury private hospital rooms with jacuzzis! With no discrimination for pre=existing conditions, no caps on servce for chronic disease, either. No forced decisions about end of life care.
Now.  Does anyone think we can have it without paying more in either premiums or taxes?

Steph

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #208 on: August 19, 2009, 07:57:55 AM »
Yes, I do agree that that is what we all want.. And no, I wish I felt that it would not cost us more in taxes.. I want it anyway. I also know that in the Medicare system, that south Florida is famous for fraud.. When I hear examples, I realize that Medicare is not run well. No idea why, but they allow the strangest programs to slip through. We need better organization of the benefits.. Again I am not a bureaucrat, but surely they can figure out how to straighten out the fraud program.
Since one of my best friends went through a
Downs syndrom child and I know what it cost the family and the child over the year, I have strong opinions about bringing out a baby with this into the crowds and noise and overstimulation.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

nlhome

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #209 on: August 19, 2009, 08:05:50 AM »
Bellemere, we may have to pay more taxes, but then, if everyone has coverage, there will be less emergency room visits, less unpaid bills at the providers, and a healthier work force, because a good share of those without insurance are working adults. (Think the restaurant cooks, waitresses, home care workers, etc.,) Right now you are paying a significant cost in increased premiums to cover the uninsured already. That cost would be shifted, spread out over a larger population.

People who are uninsured but are able to pay often pay higher fees to see the doctor or get care than what insurance companies pay the providers. Then they are even less likely to afford buying insurance because they don't have enough money to add one more bill to their budget.

If it takes higher taxes in order to get everyone covered without pre-existing conditions, then it will be. However, look at the NPR site that shows a comparison between countries and what they spend. We should be able to provide everything and pay no more per capita. As I said, right now we pay next to nothing for our health care - great for us, but unfair to others who must pay much more.  

Babi

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #210 on: August 19, 2009, 09:44:44 AM »
Quote
Men are wise, if they disagree they diplomatically state their differences rather than take personal attacks at each other.

  BELLEMARIE, I agree with most of what you say, but my eyebrows flew
up when I read the above.  Diplomats do behave like that.  The rest of the
tribe are perfectly capable of name-calling, usually accompanied by foul
language, and sometimes followed by a punch in the nose.  And just think
about the political ads that turn up every election year!
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

bellemere

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #211 on: August 19, 2009, 10:09:08 AM »
I think that Bellamaria is objecting to personal attacks on the Palin family.  That is wrong; families should be off the radar for political disputes.  But if that is what they want, they have to stay out of the public eye and not give interviews, press conferences, etc  they expose themselves to unfair criticism. 
Public statements are fair game, however.  If someonw wants to speak out,that is their right, but not to yell "fire" in a crowded theater.  Any statement by a political figure can be attacked or defended.
So: the views of participants in this discussion are eminently reasonable, if not identical to current proposals.  I hop you are all not preaching to the choir, but letting your elected officials know how  you feel.
Removal of the public option for insurance is handing the insurance companies an unprecedented windfall.  Government money , lots of it, in the form of subsidies to people to buy insurance.  Taxpayer money handed out with no taxpayer control.

pedln

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #212 on: August 19, 2009, 10:10:43 AM »
Perhaps one of you can answer my question, or direct me to where I can find the answer.

Watching CNN this am, there was again reference to Medicare and Medicaid.  My question(s)  --

Will everyone be required to have/purchase health insurance, whether public or private?

And, if that is so, would there be a need for Medicaid?

How is that handled in Massachusetts, where everyone is required to have insurance?

bellemere

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #213 on: August 19, 2009, 11:04:13 AM »
I am not sure, but I will find out.  I know that if someone cannot afford private, employer sponsored health, the are assigned to something called the Commonwealthe Connection for find insuranse they can afford. I believe MassHealth, the Massachuseets name for their Medicaid program is part of the Connection/  Simple it is not,and there are real questions about cost.  Recently, the coverage for legal immigrants was eliminated, and many liberals were upset.  But the state's financial posigion dictates cuts in EVERY program, including health, and legal immigrants are an easy target since they can't vote.

bellemere

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #214 on: August 19, 2009, 01:40:25 PM »
Okay, every individual is required to purchas health insurance.  If they did not do so in 2007, they lost the personal exemption of $219 on their state income tax return.  In subsequent years, that rises at a rate of 50 percent of the average cost of a health plan that is offered in their region. This happens every year they don't join, up to a maximum of $912.  I dont know what happens after that. Exemptions:  Approximately 2 percent of the population has been deemed unable to purchas any health insurance at all, and they are automatically exempt.  Other exemptions, like for people whose religion does not allow medical care, are considered on an individual basis and usually granted.
Also, every business with 11 or more employees has to offer a health insurance plan, and it has to be one that allows purchase with before tax dollars.  If the employer does not, he pays a fee into the Free CAre Pool of
$295  per employee. So far the state has gone after bout 800 employers for not offering any plan, and collected something like 7 million dollars. They will continue to pursue this, to raise the revenue necessary to subsidize insurance for people.
Interstingly, the big increase in individual enrollment has come from people who decided to take up the insurance their employers were offering, instead of declining it!
Medicaid still exists, as "MassHealth"  It get s federal money and adds to it. A goal of the program originally was to insure all the children in loww income families, and it got a waiver from the feds to do that.  But the overall Medicaid enrollment spiraled up as the economy tanked.
So as far as universal coverage, the state is doing a good job.  I have read estimates as high as 97 percent coverage'
Covering the cost has been tough, and continues so.   Some measures have been : higher premiums and copays for the HMO plans; an increase in the tobacco tax; a tax, for the first time ever, on sales of alcoholic beverages in package stores (fondly known in Mass. as "packies") and an increase in the state sales tax on practically everything except food and clothing.
So we struggle on, but everything depends now on an upturn in the econmy   We went into this when things were pretty good, and cost estimates seemed realistic.  But state tax revenue is way down, and need for help is way up as people lose their jobs and homes.  Hopefully, we will muddle through.  Is Mass. a model for the nation?  Who knows.

bellamarie

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #215 on: August 19, 2009, 03:22:42 PM »
Nahum,
Quote
The Cash for Clunkers is very successful - too bad there are not more programs like it that give people hope.

It has not been a success.  The car dealers are upset and their businesses could fail due to this program.  They were promised the reimbursement in 10 days and its already been 2 months, their business can not withstand the deficits it is imposing on them.  The government projected that the one BILLION allowed for the cash for clunkers would hold out until Oct-Nov and it ran out in one month, and they had to go back and ask for 2 Billion more.  If they underestimated for a simple program as reimbursing car dealers who participated in this program, and they underestimated the stimulus package, then by all intents and purposes they have not got a clue what its going to cost them to reform health care.

I want reform, I am willing to pay a little more in taxes, but I also want to choose my own doctor, keep my present insurance, make my own choices and have the surgeries needed without a panel deciding if it is cost efficient for me to have it.  This administration is in a quandary at this point because the President has decided to no longer be with his liberals when it comes to the "public option" yet why they label it "public" when in all essence it is "government option" I don't understand.  They are now inter fighting because they feel he has thrown them under the bus.

How can we as Americans, make a clear decision on whether this health reform bill would be good for us individually, when they can't decide what will or will not be available to us or in the bill?

One thing that EVERYONE seems to agree on is that in order to help pay for this bill they HAVE to cut Medicare and Medicaid, which means those who have it must be prepared to lose some benefits.  Which benefits they will cut, seems to be reimbursing doctors for certain procedures, which will then lead to doctors refusing to do the procedures if they aren't going to get paid.

Just like cash for clunkers.....if they are not getting reimbursed for participating in the program...they will NO longer be willing to do it.  The average American can not afford to take advantage of the incentive to buy a new car because even if they  have a "clunker" it is either already paid off and they can't afford to take on a new car payment, or....they are still paying on their "clunker" and can't afford a higher car payment.

Can people who have Medicare afford to pay more to make up for what this reform bill will take away from them?  For those who do not have medicare and are happy with the insurance they have NOW, well don't feel too secure, because if this passes, your insurance company may be forced out of the competition and fold or forcing them to increase your rates, sending you into the government plan, whatever that may end up being.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #216 on: August 19, 2009, 03:38:27 PM »
bellemere,   Wow if your small few paragraphs confused me trying to explain Masshealth care,  imagine what 1,000 pages of unfinished work is doing to those who are willing and able to read it?  Thank you for taking the time to post it.

For those of you who choose to hate and bash Sara Palin for whatever reason, I will refrain from reading your personal attacks on her and pray you will find it in your heart to hate the politics not the person.   She is a human being just like all of us, she is a mother, a wife, a friend, a daughter,  a Christian, and yes a politician.  She does not deserve the  personal attacks on her or her family.  NO other politician has ever had to go through what this woman has in the  past year.  All she did was accept the nominee for Vice President.  She is allowed to have her veiws and ideas just like we are and just like any other political figure, she has the right to express them and stand up for them. 

There are many things I don't agree with President Obama, and many I did not agree with Bush but,  I could not bring myself to hate or personally attack either of them.  Many have, and I pray for them too.  This is exactly why I will never align myself to one party ever again. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellemere

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #217 on: August 19, 2009, 05:21:02 PM »
I think I read that the Ford and GM dealers are very happy with the sales that are resulting from Csh for Clunkers.
Is that just around here? Or nationwide.?  Any good news is welcome at this point. 

pedln

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #218 on: August 19, 2009, 06:18:24 PM »
Bellemere, many thanks for your very concise and easily read explanation of the Mass. Health plan.  You certainly answered my question  as well as increasing my understanding.

bellemere

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #219 on: August 19, 2009, 08:06:17 PM »
Pedlin, that was all 2008 data, 09 is not yet compiled.

bellamarie

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Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #220 on: August 19, 2009, 08:48:40 PM »
I found these interesting articles that gives us an insight to the success of "Cash for Clunkers"
I think the verdict is out.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Cash for Clunkers program, as expected, has been a boon for carmakers -- especially those in Japan and South Korea.
Government data shows that while 54 percent of the top-10-selling vehicles were manufactured domestically, eight out of 10 carry Japanese or South Korean nameplates. The Toyota Corolla is the most popular car bought under the program. Only the Ford Focus and the Ford Escape cracked the top 10.
American automakers are dominating one area -- trade-ins. All the top trade-ins were made by U.S. companies, with the Ford Explorer four-wheel-drive leading the pack.
The government data show that fuel economy of vehicles bought under Cash for Clunkers is now 25 miles per gallon, while the mileage of trade-ins stands at 15.8 miles per gallon.
Meanwhile, dealers across the country are reporting that reimbursement issues continue to stall the wildly popular incentives program. They have submitted requests for rebates on 338,659 vehicles sold, at a cost of about $1.4 billion to the government, according to sales data summarized by Transportation Department officials.
David Wilson, a Toyota dealer in Orange County, Calif., told Automotive News that he has been paid for only three of 92 claims he submitted before Aug. 2, leaving him on the hook for about $374,000. In total, he has 450 unpaid claims filed for $1.9 million.
"I'm worried the government will run out of money before we get paid," he told the publication.

______________________________________________

The reason why they are running out of money is not because of the success of the program its because of the cost in the start up that is why they ran out of money in the first week.

Washington is busy patting itself on the back for the cash for clunkers program. Congress, meanwhile, is preparing to pour another $2 billion into the program. Spurred by government stimulus rebates of up to $4,500 per clunker, folks are rushing to car dealers to get a piece of the action. Yet, what no one in Washington is talking about is the actual cost to taxpayers of each clunker. Certainly, it's more than $4,500 per car. 
 
Reading the C.A.R.S. "clunker" legislation, the program details reveal that a significant amount of the $1 billion program's funding is used by Department of Transportation (DOT) to administer the program.     
 
First, DOT created and staffed an entirely new organization with three divisions to administer the clunkers program.
 
Second, the funding was allocated to cover extensive Help Desk telephonic support, promotional materials, mailers, travel, Web site development and maintenance.  Plus, extensive administrative and managerial staffing was also funded. There is staffing to manage the contracts, to review the auto dealer submissions, to develop Executive Branch and Congressional reporting, and to provide investigatory oversight for the program. 
 
Federal government staffing for 3 divisions doesn't come cheaply.  Add to it other administrative and overhead costs for office space, telecommunications, power, equipment and furniture, as well as costs for meetings, photocopying, paper, pens, help desk support. When the government's costs of running the program are totaled up, each clunker is likely to cost taxpayers around $6,000 per car. 
 
And there's more:  A quick look just at staffing reveals staggering costs. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) was given approval to staff up for the completion of a series of four Forms connected with the program (Forms 1070, 1071, 1073 and 1075).  Estimated staffing for these 4 reports was 160,353 man hours, or approximately 78 employees. 
 
These 78 employees might be contracted out with a private sector vendor (which thepPresident has made clear is not a choice he prefers). Or, they may be pulled from existing projects, which increases the execution risks for those assignments (perhaps critical infrastructure?). Or, the government might hire new employees. At a fully loaded cost, including all compensation and benefits, that works out to approximately $150,000 per employee.   
 
Even the most modest estimate means that DOT will have used approximately $12 million of the funds from the clunker program just to handle 4 of the forms for car dealers. Of course, there are many more forms connected with the clunker program. Get the picture?
 
Then there is the government's Help Desk Support, which is usually provided by the private sector and often funded on a per call basis.  But, often minimum values are built into each contract, protecting the help desk provider, who must man the phones, regardless of calls received.  If DOT uses an existing government vendor, contracts would still have to be modified to add funding and requirements for this new task, which requires the efforts of contracting officers, program managers and administrative support.
 
The administrative costs are huge on the record keeping side also.  The law states that the records have to be kept for a period of five years, which would involve storage of hard copies and electronic media. One of the off-site record storage entities would need their government contract modified to add funding for this new task.
 
Clunker funding was used to develop the official Web site (www.cars.gov), but also, undoubtedly, the contract has an ongoing requirement to support the Web site and its transactions. The cost for the Recovery.gov Web site contract was approximately $18 million to upgrade and modify an existing Web site -- so, one can only imagine what the price tag is on a rush-job,  creating a robust Web site, capable of handling millions of hits, as well as forms processing and data storage.
 
Add up all the various government costs of administrating the program and it will likely come to several hundred million dollars, which makes the true taxpayer cost of each clunker approximately $6,000.
 
In addition to the high costs comes tremendous execution risk in the Clunker program and the likelihood of fraud.  Perhaps, one of the most disturbing parts of the Clunker program is that the recipient of the $4,500 doesn't need to provide a Social Security number. So, it is possible for illegal immigrants, as well as resourceful folks from Canada and Mexico, to cross our borders, trade in their clunkers, and get American taxpayer dollars. But don't expect anyone in Congress to admit that taxpayers are paying around $6,000 to provide a $4,500 rebate for a foreigner or illegal immigrant to buy a new car. 
 
Before Congress allocates further funding to the "clunker" program, they should demand an audit of the full cost of the program. This time, Congress should insist upon learning the full administrative and overhead costs of DOT to run the program, with special consideration to the long term costs associated with federal employees to run a program of short duration. More interesting, still, would be an audit to determine how many non-American citizens are participating in the program. Once Americans get some transparency on those numbers, we will have a much better understanding of the clunker program and will be better able to determine its success.   
 
When Americans find out just how much this program is costing, and where the benefits are going, watch the enthusiasm evaporate.

 
Lurita Doan is the former Administrator of the U.S. General Services Administration and commentator for Federal News Radio 1500AM.
___________________________________________________


And just one more problem they are now dealing with is:


Cash for Clunkers Causing Car Shortages
Wednesday, August 05, 2009 
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With the U.S. Senate considering a vote on putting more money into the government's "Cash for Clunkers" program, some auto dealers are raising concerns about a new threat to the incentive program: tight inventories.
The clunker program, which offers subsidies of as much as $4,500 to consumers who trade in older vehicles and buy new, more fuel-efficient models, sparked a surge in sales in late July, leaving many dealers with lean stocks of cars and trucks on their lots.
If Congress moves ahead and allocates more money for the trade-in plan, light inventories could hinder sales and damp the program's impact until auto makers are able to rush vehicles to dealerships.
Galpin Ford in North Hills, Calif., the country's largest Ford dealership by sales, is running low on Escape crossovers and Focus compacts, general manager Terry Miller said Tuesday. The Focus is the top-selling model under the clunker program, and the Escape is among the top 10 best-sellers, according to the Transportation Department.
It's a similar story in the Philadelphia metropolitan area, where a Dodge dealership and a Chrysler-Jeep store owned by David Kelleher are out of Jeep Wranglers and Jeep Patriots, and are nearly out of Dodge Avenger sedans.
"We've got an inventory issue," Mr. Kelleher said.
Chrysler's stocks are tighter than those of most other auto makers because the company shut down all its plants while it reorganized in bankruptcy court in May and part of June, and shipments to its franchises ground to a halt.
Still, Toyota Motor Corp. only had enough Prius hybrids in stock at the end of July to last 13 days at the current rate of sales, according to Autodata Corp. It had a 34-day supply of Corolla compacts and a 37-day supply of Camrys.

_________________________________________________________

Imagine how they will miscalculate health care costs and problems.  It's our lives, not our cars that are at stake then.  If our doctor does not get reimbursed, we won't get his services.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

nlhome

  • Posts: 984
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #221 on: August 19, 2009, 09:10:13 PM »
The point of Cash for Clunkers was to get the money out there right away, which it is doing. The problems will be cleared up. It's a very new, quick program, so not surprising that there are things that need tightning up.

So the car dealers are running out of cars, and GM is hiring back some employees. That's good. There is a lot of enthusiasm in my area - not just in the automobile world, but elsewhere because the money spreads out to other businesses.

I'm not sure where this instant gratification demand comes from - We can't make up for years of financial problems in just a few months.

As for the health plan, although there are bills out there, none are finalized, and I believe that this summer break is being used for fact finding and analyzing the plans, as well as listening to the public's concern.  Nothing is perfect from the beginning, nor do things stay the same. Medicare has been a good program, run by the government, but it is constantly being tweaked and adjusted, mostly to the good but sometimes not. Medicare has some room for tightening, one of the goals being to pay for quality rather than quantity. There is fraud, abuse and, in some cases, just plain ignorance that waste money. Unfortunately, there are always those who take advantage, even in private insurance companies - although being private they aren't going to air these negative situations like a public plan must.

The cry I hear is "don't touch mine." So where does that leave those who are uninsured or underinsured?

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #222 on: August 19, 2009, 09:18:49 PM »
Mass. healthcare reform is failing us                           The Boston Globe
By Susanne L. King
March 2, 2009

 MASSACHUSETTS HAS been lauded for its healthcare reform, but the program is a failure. Created solely to achieve universal insurance coverage, the plan does not even begin to address the other essential components of a successful healthcare system.

What would such a system provide? The prestigious Institute of Medicine, part of the National Academy of Sciences, has defined five criteria for healthcare reform. Coverage should be: universal, not tied to a job, affordable for individuals and families, affordable for society, and it should provide access to high-quality care for everyone.

The state's plan flunks on all counts.

First, it has not achieved universal healthcare, although the reform has been a boon to the private insurance industry. The state has more than 200,000 without coverage, and the count can only go up with rising unemployment.

Second, the reform does not address the problem of insurance being connected to jobs. For individuals, this means their insurance is not continuous if they change or lose jobs. For employers, especially small businesses, health insurance is an expense they can ill afford.

Third, the program is not affordable for many individuals and families. For middle-income people not qualifying for state-subsidized health insurance, costs are too high for even skimpy coverage. For an individual earning $31,213, the cheapest plan can cost $9,872 in premiums and out-of-pocket payments. Low-income residents, previously eligible for free care, have insurance policies requiring unaffordable copayments for office visits and medications.

Fourth, the costs of the reform for the state have been formidable. Spending for the Commonwealth Care subsidized program has doubled, from $630 million in 2007 to an estimated $1.3 billion for 2009, which is not sustainable.

Fifth, reform does not assure access to care. High-deductible plans that have additional out-of-pocket expenses can result in many people not using their insurance when they are sick. In my practice of child and adolescent psychiatry, a parent told me last week that she had a decrease in her job hours, could not afford the $30 copayment for treatment sessions for her adolescent, and decided to meet much less frequently.

In another case, a divorced mother stopped treatment for her son because the father had changed insurance, leaving them with an unaffordable deductible. And at Cambridge Health Alliance, doctors and nurses have cared for patients who, unable to afford the new copayments, were forced to interrupt care for HIV and even cancers that could be treated with chemotherapy.

Access to care is also affected by the uneven distribution of healthcare dollars between primary and specialty care, and between community hospitals and tertiary care hospitals. Partners HealthCare, which includes two major tertiary care hospitals in Boston, was able to negotiate a secret agreement with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts to be paid 30 percent more for their services than other providers in the state, contributing to an increase in healthcare costs for Massachusetts, which are already the highest per person in the world. Agreements that tilt spending toward tertiary care threaten the viability of community hospitals and health centers that provide a safety net for the uninsured and underinsured.

There is, though, one US model of healthcare that meets the Institute of Medicine criteria: Medicare. Insuring everyone over 65, Medicare achieves universal coverage and access to care, is not tied to a job, and is affordable for individuals and the country. Medicare simplifies the administration of healthcare dollars, thereby saving money. We need to improve Medicare, and expand this program to include everyone.

A bill before Congress, the United States National Health Insurance Act, would provide more comprehensive coverage for all. The bill includes doctor, hospital, long-term, mental health, dental, and vision care, prescription drugs, and medical supplies, with no premiums, copayments, or deductibles.

People would be free to choose doctors and hospitals, and insurance would not be tied to a job. Costs would be controlled because health planning in a national health program can reestablish needed balance between primary/preventive care and high-tech tertiary care. A modest, progressive tax would replace what people currently pay out of pocket. This program would pay for itself by eliminating the wasteful administrative costs and profits of private insurance companies, and save $8 billion to $10 billion in Massachusetts alone.

We must let Congress know we want improved access to affordable healthcare for all, not more expensive private health insurance we can't afford to use when we are sick. Massachusetts healthcare reform fails on all five Institute of Medicine criteria. Congress should not make it a model for the nation.

Susanne L. King, M.D., practices in Berkshire County.

© Copyright 2009 Globe Newspaper Company.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #223 on: August 20, 2009, 12:41:22 AM »
nlhome
Quote
The point of Cash for Clunkers was to get the money out there right away, which it is doing. The problems will be cleared up. It's a very new, quick program, so not surprising that there are things that need tightning up.

Hmmmm....So, if its a very new, quick program, and needs tightning up...then it proves my point in saying if they can't get it right with a simple reimbursement for car dealers, then how on earth will they get it right for a program as big as health care for everyone?  Are we willing to wait however long it takes them to "tighten" up the health care problems after they have passed it through?  Will someone's health give out before they tighten it up or tweek it to get it right?

If they ran out of money in one week for cash for clunkers and haven't reimbursed the dealers for months after the were supposed to, then how long is it going to take to cut through all the government red tape to reimburse doctors and hospitals?

I don't think the American people want instant gratification.  They want them to take their time and get it right before they go taking away what they already have.  They are not fact finding and analyzing plans on this break, the liberals are happy with what they are proposing and do not want anything different, the President and Kathleen Sibillus has really ticked them off because they are considering no "public option" and now they are fighting amongst themselves and the town halls.

I should think as complex as it is, it should NOT be a quick program.  They are flying by the seat of their pants on everything they have done so far.  So far its all been about jobs, money and businesses, are we willing to let them roll the dice with our health care to see if it will work, when in Mass., Canada, and other countries are models that shows it won't?  This is our health, our lives, some don't have time for the tightning and tweeking.  Are any of them willling to have the same program they are offering to us?   I can answer that question with a definite NO!  If its good for us, why isn't it good for them too? 

I agree, Medicare is working, so why mess with it and cut it by 40%? 

Quote
The cry I hear is "don't touch mine." So where does that leave those who are uninsured or underinsured?


The cry  I hear is,  "Let's have one program for the American people, and one for us government representatives and the President.  The people's does not have to be as good as ours."  So where does that leave US, underinsured, rationed and denied medical treatments. 

I want and propose equal health care for "ALL", one program for EVERYONE!
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

nlhome

  • Posts: 984
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #224 on: August 20, 2009, 07:52:39 AM »
Bellamaarie, you are very negative. You don't seem to have much faith in your government or the people who represent you. My Congressman is still listening and talking, and while I might not agree with his final decisions, I believe he is still working on things.

The article you attached is good. I agree, Medicare for everyone would be a much simpler program. It would be easy to incorporate that into the public plan option.

I don't see anywhere where Medicare will be cut by 40% or that services will be cut drastically - remember, the Medicare population is growing by leaps and bounds right now with the baby boomers moving into it - that's a big block of voters. There will be changes, but I'm optimistic that benefits will continue to be reasonable.

"Will someone's health give out before they tighten it up or tweek it to get it right?"
That's happening right now - so let's continue to wait while more people suffer? No, we need to move and keep moving. More people are becoming uninsured every day.


bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #225 on: August 20, 2009, 08:35:05 AM »
nlhome,
Quote
Bellamaarie, you are very negative. You don't seem to have much faith in your government or the people who represent you. My Congressman is still listening and talking, and while I might not agree with his final decisions, I believe he is still working on things.

I am not at all negative, I am realistic.  I have very little faith in the government, no matter which party they represent.  These representatives we elect do not put our best interest first, they put their own interest and special interest groups ahead of us.  That is why there is this outcry at the town meetings, the seniors feel like they are being the last on the list of who to care for.  They feel they are not being heard.  60,000 members of AARP have cancelled their memberships since July because they see how AARP is becoming just like the government, not putting their interests first.

If this administration had it their way they would have already passed this reform AS IS and we wouldn't even get the choice to voice our opposition.  They have put us in surmountable debt, and we had NO say in it.  I put faith in MY own instincts and what I see as real.  Calling me negative because I am pointing out what is being reported is not the way to have a balanced discussion.  The townshall people have been called many names because they are choosing to stand up for their own interests. 

This reform they are proposing will NOT insure ALL!  And no one seems to be able to answer why EVERY AMERICAN, rich, poor, immigrant, government worker or the President are not entitled to THE SAME HEALTH CARE PROGRAM?   Why are their lives any more important than mine, yours or the next person's?

I say what's good for them is good for ALL!!!!!

I heard Obama at a town hall meeting last week say he would definetly have to cut medicare by 40%.  Did it make the papers, who knows.  I will attempt to find it though if it is in print.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

nlhome

  • Posts: 984
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #226 on: August 20, 2009, 08:40:22 AM »
You know, Bellamarie, I was thinking. Cash for Clunkers, as I said, was a "quick and dirty" plan, passed to jump start and not to last. Whatever health care plan we end up with will not be started up that quickly. The Medicare Modernization act that set up Medicare Part D was passed in 2003, but Medicare Part D was not started until 2005, and actually didn't go into effect until January, 2006. Other parts of the Medicare Modernization Act went into effect sooner or later. The bill wasn't just passed on one day and put into effect a couple of months later. There was time to work out a lot of the procedure, and it's been an ongoing process to tighten it up. But from the start, people had drug coverage. We can argue that it could have been done more efficiently and cost effective (I would) but the point is that older people finally have some prescription drug coverage. There were some additional changes to Medicare that were passed in, I believe, 2007 or 2008 that are just being implemented in 2010. So we really can't compare the two programs, because the goals are short-term vs. long-term.

I would like to see the actual reference to 40% cuts in Medicare.

I don't see this as a demand for equal and substandard health care coverage, but rather access to affordable and good health care.

I also would like to know how many of the seniors who are against health care reform are aware that their coverage is already provided by the government and how many are listening only to the opposition talking points rather than reading and listening to more objective information.



N

Steph

  • Posts: 7952
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #227 on: August 20, 2009, 09:14:50 AM »
Well Cash for Clunkers is very successful here in central Florida and all of the dealers involved seem very happy. All of the dealers with used cars are actually trying to offer a version of it for buying a newer used car.. That is always a sure sign that someone is happy.
I could be wrong, but I thought that the President was referring to fraud in medicare. He hopes to reduce the cost by clamping down on fraud. Wish I thought that was easy, but the fact is no matter how hard you try to make it,, there are people who immediately set out to find a different type of graft. Sad but true.
History shows that many candidates for public office have been vilified in many ways. It is actually rare in any election not to find a percentage of people who just hate.. I will probably start an argument, but just think of Rush Limbaugh.. Terrible man, untruthful and loves to start fights.. But look at the people who just love him.
Look at the woman yesterday on the news who refered to Barney Frank as a nazi.. As he said.. I am a gay jew.. what world are you living in..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #228 on: August 20, 2009, 09:40:16 AM »
nlhome,
Quote
I also would like to know how many of the seniors who are against health care reform are aware that their coverage is already provided by the government and how many are listening only to the opposition talking points rather than reading and listening to more objective information.

I think the seniors are more informed and more intelligent than you give them credit for.  You sound very much like the media and politicians who are miminizing the intelligence of the seniors, saying they really have no idea what they already have.  Yes, medicare is going to be cut.  You have the internet as well as I do, if you are willing to really get all the facts you would be searching for them the same as I do.  Having a closed mind and faith in your respresentative is fine if that's the way you want people to have control of your health care, I just don't choose the same path.  I want ALL the facts!  I want health care reform where EVERY AMERICAN has the exact same coverage.  WHY is that not possible?  Why are the President, congressmen/women and senator's lives more important than mine or yours?  They will not accept their own reform program they want to propose to us, because they know it is not going to cover them they way they want to be covered.  Plain and simple THEY see themselves MORE important, and their lives more valuable than ours.  They were elected by US, to represent us, and our best interests, Not to make us second class citizens to them.  If we dare to ask to have the same as them and object to this program we are denegraded, called names, and insulted.  That is NOT democracy.

 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellemere

  • Posts: 862
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #229 on: August 20, 2009, 09:51:10 AM »
I am just no good at posting URLs for newspaper articles, but if anyone is interested, the New York Times, august 9 has an editorial on the Massachusetts reform that is not nearly as pessimistic as Dr. King's.  One thing I learned is that withing 5 years, the state intends to move from a fee=for service delivery system to one in which groups of doctors work together to p rovide all the care a patient needs for a flat fee.  This is the delivery method that will truly bring about health care reform, and is recommended by Dr. Cortese, of the Mayo clinic.
So if you google something like New York Times Mass. Health Care Reform August 9, 2009 you should be able to bring it up.
I still have faith in government to achieve some benefits for people. Democracy is a very messy form of government.  someone said it is the worst possible form of government except for anything else.
 Medicare was bitterly opposed by physicians and eventually  it make them all millionaires

this week the same paper's magazine featured an account by an American woman who had to bring her husband to an emergency room in France.  the receptionist was typically French snotty; the care was phenomenal. X rays, doctor, EKG, discovery of severe peumonia, antibiotics, everything possible.  When she offered her Master Card as payment, the receptionist said We will send you a bill. The doctor apologized for having to bill her since she was not a citizen of the EU   She got the bill six months later; it was for $220.

pedln

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 6694
  • SE Missouri
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #230 on: August 20, 2009, 09:55:55 AM »
Just a reminder, folks, we don't want SeniorLearn to run into any copyright trouble.  If y ou could provide a link to your articles that would help.  I think copyright law allows a (fair use) paragraph to be copied.  Also, that will help the folks who use dial-up as opposed to broadband, whose pages don't load as quickly.

Just saw your post, bellemere.  Is this the editorial?

Massachusetts Health Care

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #231 on: August 20, 2009, 10:08:39 AM »
Steph,  
Quote
Look at the woman yesterday on the news who refered to Barney Frank as a nazi.. As he said.. I am a gay jew.. what world are you living in..


I watched that woman at Barney Frank's town hall  meeting and she did NOT call Barney a nazi.  She referred to Obama's health program as Nazism, and asked Barney why would he be in favor of a nazi program?  He very rudely shouted at her and instead of answering her intelligently he said he would defer to his heritage and asked her "what planet are you living on?"  He then interrupted her and said he refused to talk to her because talking to her was like talking to a kitchen table."  His respond was typical of how they deal with opposition.  Steph you speak of hate, yet YOU expressed nothing but hate for Sara Palin.  I don't hate people, I hate the policies they are trying to impose on us when the majority of Americans oppose it.  Do we want our representatives resorting to the same poor behavior as the people who are actly poorly?

So you know for a fact that EVERY car dealer is satisfied in central Florida.  That is interesting when just this morning on the news they reported yet again how the car dealers are upset because they are not being reimbursed.  My articles are stating facts, you are stating your opinion.  While I respect your opinion, you are not correct in stating EVERY car dealer in cental Florida is happy.  And is it a success if by any slim chance you are correct, then is it okay to say its a success if in YOUR area everyone is happy?  What about the rest of the country?  You may want to read that article where it shows Japan and North Korea are benefiting more than the United States.  Again, facts you can not dispute.

Hating Sara Palin and bringing in Rush Limbaugh pretty much shows me where you stand politically and so it is fruitless to try to have an informative and intelligent conversation with you.  I am so glad I have opened my eyes throughout this entire decade and have chose no longer to be affiliated to any one party.  It feels good and free to be INDEPENDENT, it allows me to see both sides good and bad and be open to accept or oppose what I see is NOT respresentative for Americans.  

The President is in a real bind here, because he campaigned as a moderate democrat and got the support of moderate democrats, some conservatives and independents and now that he is governing from the liberal left and even throwing them under the bus with the "public option"  there is party in fighting.  And we are suppose to have faith in them??  Its like kids fighting for control of their parents or granparents health care when neither are looking out for their best interest.

I don't feel I need to argue or persuade anyone in this discussion.  I'm only trying to show what the facts are as they are being reported.  Opinions are fine, but if you don't have facts then you are not able to make informed decisions.  I can see some don't want the facts so I won't waste my time providing them.  I have stated I am for a health care reform for ALL Americans.  Anything less is not democratic or fair.

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #232 on: August 20, 2009, 10:33:39 AM »
pedln, Thank you for the reminder, I usually do post the link.  I have a new computer and am having a bit of a challenge in getting around the new system of windows.  My apologies and will be more than happy to post links along with the articles.  No one would want to put Senior Learn into copyright problems.  It is a wonderful site and what would we do without it?
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellemere

  • Posts: 862
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #233 on: August 20, 2009, 11:17:40 AM »
Like for most Jews I know, any charge of Nazi sympathies is a bomb fuse.  And with good reason.the lady should have used another analogy.  but if she was at Barney's district meeting, chances are she was Jewish herself.  Barney is touchy, abrasive, loud, sometimes tactless, but brilliant, dedicated, and brave.
I would say that remark comes under the heading of a personal attack.

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #235 on: August 20, 2009, 11:43:51 AM »
bellemere, I completely agree with you on the point you make about the word Nazi being used is a fuse bomb.  I have no idea if the woman was Jewish, I was only correcting the fact she did not call Barney Frank a Nazi.  I don't approve of any ethnic names being used.  I felt she was pointing out this program in her opinion is in comparison to Nazism.  He heard the word Nazism and went off on a complete meltdown.  He has always shouted and acted aggressive in any interview I have seen him in if there is any opposition to his ideas.  EEEEKKK brillant, dedicated and brave are not the words that I would use to describe him.  lolol  But then we do tend to disagree on many things so I can respect your feelings for him.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellemere

  • Posts: 862
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #236 on: August 20, 2009, 03:37:22 PM »
The friend who saw the video of the Barney meeting said the inquiring lady presented a poster of President obama with a Hitler mustache drawn on. And that the audience roundly cheered Barney
s answr.
I am strongly in favor of health reform now.  I know that nothing much will change for me, and that my life is drawing to a conclusion.  But I want it for my children and grandchildren. 
Incidentlaly, massachusetts does not have a government option as part of its reform.

pedln

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 6694
  • SE Missouri
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #237 on: August 20, 2009, 06:40:02 PM »
Sometimes we need to look in our own backyards.  Today I learned something that really shocked me.  I live in a small city in Southeast Missouri on the Mississippi River. It is a regional center for shopping, higher education, and medical treatment; we have two hospitals and a rehab hospital.  We have a lovely new bridge connecting our state with Illinois -- the Bill Emerson Memorial Bridge, named after the late congressman. (The next closest bridge is over 30 miles away.)

There are counties south of us that are very poor, with a low per capita income.   Likewise in Southern Illinois. (Many say Illinois is actually two differnet states -- northern and southern.)  There are three counties in southern Illinois that have NO MEDICAL FACILITIES, HOSPITALS, CLINICS, OR WHAT HAVE YOU.  And guess where those people go for medical treatment.  You got it.  To the emergency rooms at the hospitals in the state across the river.  Perhaps I shouldn't have been shocked, but I was -- that a county in any state could not provide some  kind of medical clinic.

bellemere

  • Posts: 862
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #238 on: August 20, 2009, 08:21:41 PM »
A sad state of affairs.  Community Health Centers were conceived to serve just that kind of area.  I cannot believe they have none.  One of our most rural western Mass areas almost lost its small community hospital a few years age.  One of my fellow  health planners asked the Boston bigwigs to accompany him on a night ride over the icy roads to the next nearest hospital 24 miles away, and imagine a child having an asthma attack in the car!  The hospital stayed.

Please consider: Without  a public plan as a choice, if people are required to buy insurance, tons of government subsidy money will be funnelled to the pockets of the insurance company , their stockholders, and their high salaried excecutives. no incentive whatsoever to hold down costs.  Who wants to sabotage a gravy train like that?  they say they will be driven out of business.  Well, if they cant reduce costs, good bye ande good luck.  Maybe even
AIG will want to start selling health insurance.
And I doubt if Barney's questioner really knows much about
Naziism.  Be a good idea for her to read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, with stories about the brownshirts disrupting public meetings with shouts and brawls.
And whateveer happened to Communism as the Big Threat?   
A lot of the major health insureres used to sell different kinds of insurance, fire, business, loss prevention, etc. but some, like Aetna and Cigna saw where the money was : health care and now that is all they sell.
 




nlhome

  • Posts: 984
Re: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform
« Reply #239 on: August 20, 2009, 09:19:39 PM »
Well, Bellamarie, you sound just as closed  minded as you seem to think I am. Actually, I have talked to people who don't understand that their Medicare is government run. I have heard people say that on TV interviews. I have read letters in my newspaper written by people who I know receive Medicare or Veterans benefits. So I know people are confused - I just don't know how many.

"They will not accept their own reform program they want to propose to us, because they know it is not going to cover them they way they want to be covered." and

"If we dare to ask to have the same as them and object to this program we are denegraded, called names, and insulted.  That is NOT democracy"

Where exactly does Congress say they will not accept the "reform program"? That's a fact? Since nothing is anywhere near final, I don't think that's a fact.  It's another of those "talking points" as far as I can determine. Congress gets the same health care as other federal employees right now. You can look that up on the federal health benefit site. Which people in Congress are calling others names and insulting people because they want the same benefits as their representatives have?  I have not heard any of that.