Author Topic: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant  (Read 371970 times)

Frybabe

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1600 on: January 16, 2012, 09:50:56 AM »
Thanks, Emily. It is a very good synopsis.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1601 on: January 16, 2012, 03:39:27 PM »
EMILY: I've always been confused about the 100 yeas war: your post makes so mmuch sense of it. Thank you.

I was named after Joan of Arc (as were probably many of the Joans of my age: she was declared a Saint shortly beforeI was born, and Joan was a popular name. But we were always taught the battles in which she fought as isolated incidents.

bookad

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1602 on: January 17, 2012, 06:41:32 AM »
what a colourful history of the pope/popes during this period
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1603 on: January 17, 2012, 03:09:54 PM »
Hi, bookad. "Colorful" is an excellent word!

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1604 on: January 17, 2012, 03:31:39 PM »
A really good book about the 14th century is Barbara Tuchman's A Distant Mirror. She is a wonderful writer, accurate and interesting, easy for the lay-historian to enjoy.

My thanks also to Emily for the summary.
Jean

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1605 on: January 19, 2012, 07:33:11 PM »
Mabel1, it is a small world; in looking up Barbara Tuchman and the book you suggested, I find she also wrote, The Guns of August--am in the process of reading Lyn MacDonald's books about the first world war, and was looking forward to 'The Guns of August', especially following your mention of her writing style which sounds her books would be well worth reading
--always like it when I can find a new author, especially one writing history; am especially interested to read more about the time frame we are currently reading about

take care



To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1606 on: January 19, 2012, 08:31:56 PM »
The Durants'   S  o  C
 Vol. VI  The REFORMATION
Pages  8 = 13



When it became clear that the Avignon popes were losing Europe in their devotion to France, Gregory XI returned the papacy to Rome (1377) When he died (1378) the conclave of cardinals, overwhelmingly French but fearful of the Roman mob, chose an Italian as Pope Urban VI. Urban was not urbane; he proved so violent of temper, and so insistent upon reforms unc ongenial to the hierarchy, that the reassembled cardinals declare his election invalid as having been made under duress, and proclaimed Robert of Geneva pope. Robert assumed office as Clement VII in Avignon, while Urban persisted as pontiff in Rome. The Papal Schism (1378- 1417 )  so inaugurated, like so many of the forces that prepared the Reformation, was conditioned by the rise of the State; in effect it was an attempt by France to retain the moral and financial aid of the papacy in her war with England. The lead of France was followed by Naples, Spain, and Scotland; but England, Flanders, Germany, Poland, Bohemia, Hungry, Italy, and Portugal accepted Urban, and the divided Church became the weapon and victim of the hostile camps. Half the Christian world held the other half to be heretical, blasphemous, and excommunicate; each side claimed the sacraments administered by priests of the opposite obedience were worthless, and that the children so baptized, the penitents so shriven, the dying so anointed, remained in mortal sin, and were doomed to hell -- or at best to limbo -- if death should supervene.  Expanding Islam laughed at disintegrating Christendom.

Urban’s death in (1389) brought no compromise; the cardinals in his camp chose Boniface IX, then Innocent VII, then Gregory XII, and the divided nations prolonged the divided papacy. The Avignon cardinals named a Spanish prelate to be Benedict XIII. He offered to resign if Gregory followed suit, but Gregory’s relatives, already entrenched in office, would not hear of it. The king of France urged Benedict to withdraw; Benedict refused; France renounced its allegiance to him, and adopted neutrality. When Benedict fled to Spain his cardinals joined with those who had left Gregory, and together they issued a call for a council to meet at Pisa and elect a pope acceptable to all. The Council of Pisa met in March 25, 1409. It summoned Benedict and Gregory to appear before it; they ignored it; it declared them deposed,and elected a new pope, Alexander V, bade him call another council before May 1412, and adjoined. There were now three popes , instead of two. Alexander did not help matters by dying (1410), for his cardinals named as his successor John XXIII, the most unmanageable man to mount the pontifical chair since the twenty-second of his name. Governing Bolonga as papal vicar, this ecclesiastical ‘condottiere,’ Baldassare Cossa, had permitted and taxed every thing, including prostitution, gambling, and usury;  According to his secretary he had seduced 200 virgins, matrons, widows, and nuns. But he had money, and an army; perhaps he could conquer the Papal States from Gregory, and so reduce him to impecunious abdication.

John XXIII delayed as long as he could the calling of the council decreed at Pisa. When  opened at Constance, November 1414, it demanded the abdication of Gregory XII, Benedict XIII, and John XXIII. Receiving no answer from John, it accepted the presentation of fifty-four charges against him as a pagan, oppressor, liar, simoniac, traitor, lecher, and thief; sixteen other charges were suppressed. On May 29, 1415, it deposed him. Gregory, was more pliant and subtle; he agreed to resign, but only on condition that he should first be allowed to reconvene the council on his own authority.. So reconvened, the council accepted his resignation (July 4). To further attest its orthodoxy, it burned at the stake (July 6) the Bohemian reformer, John Huss.  On July 26 it declared Benedict XIII deposed;  he settled in Valencia, and died there at ninety, still holding himself pope. On November 17, 1417, an electoral committee chose Cardinal Ottone Colonna as Pope Martin V. All Christendom acknowledged him and the Papal Schism came to an end.

The victory of the council in this regard defeated its other purpose-- to reform the Church. Martin V at once assumed all the powers and prerogatives of the papacy. Playing off each national group of delegates against the others, he persuaded them to accept a vague and innocuous minimum of reform. The council yielded to him because it was tired. On April 22, 1418, it dissolved.

                                          THE TRIUMPHANT PAPACY   1417-1513.

Martin reorganized the Curia to more effective functioning, but could find no way to finance it except by imitating the secular governments of the age and selling offices and services. Since the Church had survived for a century without reform, but could hardly survive a week without money, he concluded that money was more urgently needed than reform. In 1430, a year before Martin’s death, a German envoy to Rome sent his prince a letter that almost sounded the theme and tocsin of the Reformation:

 “Greed reins supreme in the Roman court, and day by day finds new devices.... for extorting money from Germany...... Hence much outcry and heart burnings..... many questions in regard to the papacy will arise, or else obedience will at last be entirely renounced, to escape  from these outrageous exactions by the Italians; and this latter course, as I perceive, would be acceptable to many countries.”

Martin’s successor,  (Eugenius IV),  faced the accumulated problems of the Apostolic See from the background of a devout Franciscan friar, ill equipped for statesmanship. The papacy had to govern states as well as the Church; the popes had to be men of affairs with at least one foot in the world, and could rarely afford to be saints. Eugenius IV might have been a saint had not his troubles embittered his spirit. In the first year of his pontificate the council of Basel proposed again to assert the supremacy of general councils over the popes. Eugenius ordered it to dissolve; instead it declared him deposed, and named Amadeus VIII, Duke of Savoy, as Antipope Felix V (1439). The Papal Schism was renewed.

Eugenius was rescued by the Turks. As the Ottomans came ever nearer to Constantinople, the Byzantine government decided that the Greek capital was worth a Roman Mass, and that a reunion of Greek with Latin Christianity was an indispensable prelude to winning military or financial aid from the West. Greek prelates and nobles came in picturesque panoply to Ferrara, then to Florence, to meet the Roman hierarchy summoned by the Pope (1438). After a year of argument an accord was reached that recognised the authority of the Roman pontiff over all Christendom. The concord was brief, for the Greek clergy and people repudiated it; but it restored the prestige of the papacy, and helped to bring the new schism, and the council of Basel, to an end.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1607 on: January 20, 2012, 02:44:08 PM »
That is an incredible story. Does anyone know which sequence of popes the Catholic church now recognizes as having been the legitimate pope? It came up in another discussion.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1608 on: January 20, 2012, 11:47:31 PM »
Joan, whoever wins out at the end of the battle is the Pope of the moment. There is a list of Pope's but the sequence probably left out all the losers.

There have been other 'anti-popes' but they are left off the list. I suppose the Catholic church decided who was and who was not a legitimate Pope over the years.

The Greeks dismissed them all.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1609 on: January 21, 2012, 11:38:06 AM »
is this chapter a synopsis from the previous book 'The Renaissance'?

if so I wish I'd had something like this to read before the lengthy pages of one corrupt pope
after the other in the last book; like you suggested sort of a timeline JoanK

how was it the councils leaned to voting for a person to be pope who ultimately turned to corruption/ or did anyone striving to be pope if voted in think he had hit the jack pot...also apparently the pope's family members and friends would be excited as well, expecting good changes in their living circumstances

what a world!
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1610 on: January 21, 2012, 03:01:21 PM »
I seem to remember from earlier that when the cardinals elected the urban who was the cause of the schism, he was a compromise, they couldn't agree and so picked an unknown inoffensive monk. Then either he went crazy, or he trieed to really reform things (or both), and they quickly tried to get rid of him.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1611 on: January 21, 2012, 10:58:26 PM »
Bookad you ask : is this chapter a synopsis from the previous book 'The Renaissance'?

Perhaps I should let Durant explain in a note to the reader;

The prospective reader deserves a friendly notice that The Reformation is not quite an honest title for the book An accurate title would be: "A history of European Civilization Outside of Italy from 1300 to 1564, or Thereabouts, Including the History of Religion in Italy and an incidental View of Islamic and Judaic Civilization In Europe, Africa, and Western Asia".

Why so meandering a thematic frontier? Because Vol. IV "The Age of Faith " in this "Story of Civilization" brought European history only to 1300, and Vol. V "The Renaissance " confined itself to Italy 1304- 1576 deferring the Italian echoes of the Reformation.. So this Vol VI must begin at 1300; and the reader will be amused to find that Luther arrives on the scene only after a third of the tale has been told. But let us privately agree that the Reformation really only began with John Wyclif and Louis of Bavaria in the fourteenth century, progressed with John Huss in the fifteenth, and culminated explosively in the sixteenth with the reckless monk of Wittenburg. Those whose present interest is only in the religious revolution may omit chapters III- VI and IX-X without irreparable loss.

Wold the readers here like me to do as Durant suggests, or shall I carry on from page one to page 940?  ++ Trevor.

bookad

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1612 on: January 22, 2012, 09:37:19 AM »
thank you Trevor
I also see the next paragraph in the present book states

Quote
The reformation, then is the central but not the only subject of this book. We begin by considering religion in
general, its functions in the soul and the group, and the conditions and problems of the Roman Catholic in the two centuries before Luther.

so I guess with the title of the first chapter, probably self explanatory ...about the Roman Catholic Church...

interesting further on in William Durant's introduction, he relates he was brought up
Quote
'feverent catholic, and that I retain grateful memories of the devoted secular priests, and learned Jesuits, and kindly nuns who bore so patiently  with my brash youth;....also....derived much of my education from lecturing for thirteen years in a Presbyterian church...'

I particularly love the following passage by Durant
Quote
Less than any man have I excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness groping for the sun.  I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest urchin in the streets.
.....

...that he can maintain that kind of faith after researching and finding the church; how it mismanaged thru popes with ulterior motives and callous self interests....and then today's ugly truths coming forward with certain Roman Catholic hierarchy....his faith must have been very deep indeed
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

bookad

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1613 on: January 22, 2012, 09:42:25 AM »
my vote would be to continue reading the book as is
from where we are thru to the ending
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1614 on: January 22, 2012, 09:24:28 PM »
I finally looked up the list of Popes from the Catholic Encyclopedia. The list is complete and it does list all the anti-popes, albeit in small print under the official Pope.

The anti-popes finally seemed to disappear after about 1500AD. Maybe it took them 1500 years to figure out the selection process.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

Emily

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1615 on: January 23, 2012, 03:10:05 PM »
That is very interesting, Emily. I didn't realize that there had been several periods of anti-popes. I thuink the one that came up was Benedict XV, but I'll have to check.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1616 on: January 24, 2012, 10:41:19 PM »
DURANTS'   S  o  C
Vol  VI     The Reformation
Pages  13-14



A succession of strong popes, enriched and exalted by the Italian Renaissance, now raised the papacy to such splendour as it had not known even in the proud days of Innocent III. Nicholas V. earned the admiration of the humanists by devoting Church revenues to the patronage of scholarship and art. Calixtus III established the genial custom of nepotism -- giving offices to relatives -- which became a pillar of corruption in the Church. Pius II brilliant as author and barren as pope, struggled to reform the Curia, and the monasteries. He appointed a commission of prelates reputed for integrity and piety to study the shortcomings of the Church, and to this commission he made a frank confession :

“ Two things are particularly dear to my heart: the war with the Turks and the reform of the Roman court. The amendment of the whole state of ecclesiastical affairs, which I have determined to undertake, depends upon this court as a model. I purpose to begin by improving the morals of the ecclesiastics here, and banishing all simony and other abuses.”

But hardly anyone in Rome wanted reform; every second functionary or dignitary there profited from some form of venality. Apathy and resistance defeated Pius, while the abortive crusade that he undertook against the Turks absorbed his energy and his funds.

Despite the labours of popes like Nicholas V and Pius II, the faults of the papal court mounted as the fifteenth century neared its end. Paul II wore a papal tiara that outweighed a palace in its worth. Sixtus IV made his nephew a millionaire, entered avidly into the game of politics, blessed the cannon that fought his battles, and financed his wars by selling church offices to the highest bidders.  Innocent VIII celebrated in the Vatican the marriages of his children. Alexander VI, like Luther and Calvin, thought celibacy a mistake, and begot five or more children before subsiding into reasonable continence as a pope. His gay virility did not stick so sharply in the gullet of the time as we may suppose; a certain clandestine amorousness was often accepted as usual in the clergy.

What offended Europe was that Alexander’s unscrupulous diplomacy, and the ruthless generalship of his son Caesar Borgia, rewon the Papal States for the papacy and added needed revenues and strength to the Apostolic See. Pope Julius II out caesared Borgia in waging war against rapacious Venice and the invading French; he escaped whenever he could from the prison of the Vatican, led his army in person and relished the rough life and speech of martial camps. Europe was shocked to see the papacy not only secularised but militarised. Yet it could hardly withhold some admiration from a mighty warrior miscast as a pope; and some word went over the Alps about the services of Julius to art in his discriminating patronage of Raphael and Michelangelo. It was Julius who began the  building of the new St. Peter’s, and first granted indulgences to those who contributed to its cost. It was in his pontificate that Luther came to Rome and saw for himself that “sink of iniquity “ which had been Lorenzo de’ Medici’s name for the capital of Christendom.

No ruler in Europe  could any longer think of the papacy as a moral supergovernment binding all the  nations into a Christian Commonwealth; the papacy itself, as a secular state, had become nationalistic; all Europe, as the old faith waned, fell into national fragments acknowledging no supernational or international moral law, and doomed to five centuries of interchristian wars.

To judge these Renaissance popes fairly we must see them against the background of their time. Northern Europe could feel their faults, since it financed them; but only those who knew the exuberant Italy of the period between Nicholas V (1447-1455) and Leo X (1513-1521) could view them with understanding lenience. Though several of them were personally pious, most of them accepted the Renaissance conviction that the world, while still for so many a vale of tears and devilish snares, could be a scene beauty, intense living and fleeting happiness; it did not seem scandalous to them that they enjoyed life and the papacy.

They had their virtues. They laboured to redeem Rome from the ugliness and squalor into which it had fallen while the popes were at Avignon. They drained marshes ( by comfortable proxy ), paved streets, restored bridges and roads, improved the water supply, established the Vatican Library and the Capitoline Museum, enlarged hospitals, distributed charity, built or repaired churches, embellished the city with palaces and gardens, reorganized the University of Rome, supported the humanists in resurrecting pagan literature, philosophy, and art, and gave employment to painters, sculptors, and architects whose works are now a treasured heritage of all mankind.

They squandered millions; they used millions constructively. They spent too much on the new St. Peter’s, but hardly more in proportion than the kings of France would spend on Fontainebleau and  Versailles and the Chateaux of the Loire; and perhaps they thought of it as transforming scattered crumbs of evanescent wealth into lasting splendour for the people and their God. They raised the papacy, which had so lately been scorned and destitute, to an impressive  majesty of power.


JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1617 on: January 25, 2012, 02:39:16 PM »
"They drained marshes ( by comfortable proxy ), "

Durant has not lost his way with words.

I remember driving through Italy, being in a small town whose name I forget. The people looke very poor and warn, but dominating the town was the church, with a large dome covered in gold. Did the people there resent it, or were they glad to have that beauty in their lives?

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1618 on: January 27, 2012, 09:41:48 PM »
Durant writes........

Quote
No ruler in Europe  could any longer think of the papacy as a moral supergovernment binding all the  nations into a Christian Commonwealth; the papacy itself, as a secular state, had become nationalistic; all Europe, as the old faith waned, fell into national fragments acknowledging no supernational or international moral law, and doomed to five centuries of interchristian wars.

secular........rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations......

Europe has dismissed the old Arab myths that created gods, and its seat of power (the pope) and his entourage ignored the religious part and no matter where the 'Pope' was installed, it was a business, not a religion.

Europe fought for five hundred years, not for religion, but for the wealth that religion brought. The learned and officials of the church did not believe, but there were enough of the populace who under threat constantly and duress still turned to the church for solace from the world these monsters created.

Most people knew the church was corrupt, but instead of destroying the myth, they thought they could fix it. How sad they let that golden opportunity pass, and millions would die for a scam pulled off by the church, all in the name of religion.

secular......rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations.

religion.....the service and worship of supernatural gods.

supernatural.......of or relating to a god, demigod, spirit, or devil.

occultism.....belief in or study of the action or influence of supernatural powers.

All religions are cults.

Emily


mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1619 on: January 28, 2012, 10:33:26 AM »
That section alone could make me an atheist if i was not already an agnostic. :) if god had any control over people's behavior, surely he would have discilpined these guys.

Jean

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1620 on: January 30, 2012, 05:18:33 PM »
do you think the Roman Catholic church upper echelons will ever get their act together and become honourable with their misdealing s of children, rules for women regarding their own bodies and birth control, hiding wrongs done in the name of their religion etc. etc. etc....doesn't this say that men are men regardless of hierarchy of position or trust from a populace ....and totally susceptible to temptation

really any person is susceptible given temptation... men, women but as women are not allowed to any upper position in the catholic church, I didn't include them in the above.

it will be interesting to know about the rest of Europe, how the church behaved.....
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

3kings(Trevor)

  • Posts: 347
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1621 on: February 02, 2012, 03:30:26 AM »
The Durants'   S  o  C
Vol.VI    The Reformation
Pages 18-25



Being worldly, the servants of the Church were often as venal as the officials of contemporary governments. Corruption was in the mores of the time and in the nature of  man; secular courts were notoriously amenable to the persuasiveness of  money, and no papal election could rival in bribery the election of Charles V as emperor. This excepted, the fattest bribes in Europe were paid at the Roman court. Reasonable fees had been fixed for the services of the Curia, but the cupidity of the staff raised the actual cost twenty times the legal sum. Aeneas Sylvius, before becoming pope, wrote that everything was for sale in Rome, and nothing could be had there without money. A generation later the monk Savonarola, with the exaggeration of indignation called the Church of Rome a “harlot’ ready to sell her favours for coin. Another generation later, Erasmus remarked: “ The shamelessness of the Roman Curia has reached its climax.”

From the moderate fee charged for priestly ordination to the enormous sums that many cardinals paid for their elevation, nearly every appointment required the clandestine lubrication of superiors. A favourite papal device for raising funds was to sell ecclesiastical offices, or (as the popes saw the matter)  to appoint to sinecures or honours, even to the cardinalate, persons who would make a substantial contribution to the expenses of the Church. Alexander VI created eighty new offices, and received 760 ducats ( $19,000 ? ) from each of the appointees. Julius II formed a “college “ or bureau of 101 secretaries, who together paid him 74,000 ducats for the privilege.  Leo X nominated sixty chamberlains and 141 squires to the papal household, and received from them 202,000 ducats. The salaries paid to such officials were looked upon, by giver and recipient, as endowment policy annuities; but to Luther they seemed the rankest simony.

A more serious charge was laid against the personal  morality of the clergy. “The morals of the clergy are corrupt,” said the Bishop of Torcello ( 1458 ). “ they have become an offense to the laity.” The monastic rules formulated in the fervour of early devotion proved too rigorous for a human nature increasingly freed from supernatural fears. Absolved by their collective wealth from the necessity of manual labour, thousands of monks and friars neglected religious services, wandered outside their walls, drank in taverns, and pursued amours.

A fourteenth century Dominican, John Bromyard, said of his fellow friars:
“They are consumed in gluttony and drunkenness..... not to say in uncleanliness, so that now the assemblies of clerics are thought to be brothels of wanton folk and congregations of play-actors”.
Erasmus repeated the charge after a century. ‘Many convents of men and women differ little from public brothels.”

The chief sin of the simple parish priest was his ignorance,  but he was too poorly paid and hard worked to have funds  or time for study, and the piety of the people suggest that he was often respected and loved. Some confessors solicited sexual favours from female penitents. Thousands of priests had concubines; In Germany nearly all. In fairness to these priests we should consider that sacerdotal concubinage was not profligacy, but an almost universal rebellion against the rule of celibacy that had been imposed upon an unwilling clergy by pope Gregory VII ( 1074 ) Just as the Greek and Russian orthodox Church, after the schism of 1054, had continued to permit marriage to its priests, so the clergy of the Roman Church demanded the same right; and since the cannon law of their Church refused this, they took concubines. In Pomerania, about 1500, such unions were recognized by the people as reasonable, and were encouraged by them as protection for their daughters and wives; at public festivals the place of honour was given as a matter of course to priests and their consorts. Aeneas Sylvius was quoted by the contemporary historian Platina, librarian of the Vatican, as saying “there were good reasons for clerical celibacy, but better reasons against it. “ The moral record of pre-Reformation priesthood stands in better light if we view sacerdotal concubinage as a forgivable revolt against an arduous rule unknown to the Apostles and to the Christianity of the East.

The complaint that finally sparked the Reformation was the sale of indulgences. Through the powers apparently delegated by Christ to Peter ( Matt. 16:19), by Peter to bishops, and  by bishops to priests, the clergy were authorized to absolve a confessing penitent from the guilt of his sins, and from punishment in hell, but not from doing penance for them on earth. Christ by His death had added an infinity of merits; these merits, said the theory of the Church could be conceived as a treasury, upon which the pope might draw to cancel part or all of the temporal penalties incurred and unperformed by absolved penitents. The substitution of a money fine ( Webergeld ) for punishment was a long established custom in secular courts; hence no furore was caused by the early application  of the idea to indulgences. A shriven penitent, by paying such a fine to the expenses of the Church, would receive a partial or plenary indulgence, not to commit further sins, but to escape a day, a month, a year in purgatory, or all the time he might have had to suffer there to complete his penance for his sins. The indulgence did not cancel the guilt of sins; this, when the priest absolved a contrite penitent, was forgiven in the confessional. An indulgence, therefore, was the remission, by the Church, of part or all of the temporal ( not eternal ) penalties incurred by sins whose guilt had been forgiven in the sacrament of penance.

This ingenious and complicated theory was soon transformed by the simplicity of the people, and by the greed of the ‘quaestiarii ‘, or pardoners, commissioned or presuming to distribute the indulgences. As these purveyors were allowed to retain a percentage of the receipts, some of them omitted to insist upon repentance, confession, and prayer, and left the recipient free to interpret the indulgence as dispensing him from repentance, confession and absolution, and as depending almost entirely upon the money contribution.

The popes -- Boniface IX in 1392, Martin V in 1420, Sixtus IV in 1478 , repeatedly condemned these misconceptions and abuses, but they were too pressed for revenue to practice effective control. They issued bulls so frequently, and for so confusing a variety of causes, that men of education lost faith in the theory, and accused the Church of shamelessly exploiting human credulity and hope. A Franciscan friar of high rank described with anger how chests were placed in all the churches of Germany to receive payments by those  who, having been unable to go to Rome for the Jubilee of 1450, could now obtain the same plenary indulgence by money dropped in the box; and he warned the Germans, a half century before Luther, that by indulgences and other means their savings were being drained off to Rome. Even the clergy complained that indulgences were snaring into papal coffers contributions that might otherwise been secured for local ecclesiastical uses.

The poor complained that through their inability to pay for Masses and indulgences it was the earthly rich, not the meek, who would inherit the kingdom of heaven; and Columbus ruefully praised money because he said “ he who possesses it has the power of transporting souls into paradise.” Among laymen, Erasmus reported, the title of clerk or priest or monk was a term of bitter insult. In Vienna the priesthood, once the most desired of all careers, received no recruits in the twenty years preceding the Reformation. Passionate Italians like Arnold of Brescia, Joachim of Flora, and Savonarola of Florence had attacked ecclesiastical abuses without ceasing to be Catholics but two of them had been burned at the stake. Nevertheless, good Christians continued to hope that reform might be accomplished by the Church’s loyal sons. Humanists like Erasmus, Colet, More, and Bude dreaded  the disorder of an open break; it was bad enough that the Greek Church remained resolutely apart from the Roman; any further rending of “the seamless robe of Christ “ threatened the survival of Christianity itself. The Church tried repeatedly, and often  sincerely, to cleanse her ranks and her courts,, and to adopt a financial ethic superior to the lay morality of the times. The councils tried to reform the Church, and were defeated by the popes; the popes tried, and were defeated by the cardinals and the bureaucracy of the Curia. Enlightened churchmen like Nicholas of Cusa achieved local reforms, but even these were transient.

Denunciations of the Church’s shortcomings, by her enemies and her lovers, excited the schools, disturbed the pulpits, flooded the literature, mounted day by day, year by year, in the memory and resentment of  men, until the dam of reverence and tradition burst, and Europe was swept by a religious revolution more far-reaching and profound than all the political transformations of modern  times.


Brian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1622 on: February 02, 2012, 06:35:03 AM »
Quote
notoriously amenable to the persuasiveness of  money

Durant sums it all up  - - - -  as usual he is indefatigable in his verbosity.

The "Occupy" or "99 to 1" groups would do well to find a writer who could compete.

We need a "Reformation" right now.

Brian

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1623 on: February 03, 2012, 10:07:41 PM »
Brian, I agree we need a reformation, just not like the one that happened with the Catholic church that did not work. They may have stopped the 'indulgences' but they did nothing to stop all the other crimes against humanity they participated in and continue today.

What the occupy movement needs is a list of names of those most responsible for the 'crash of 08'. The 'occupiers' don't seem to know who the culprits are, and if you can't name the 'criminals' you don't have a case.

I can easily compose the 'list' but these people have so much money (which means power), they are considered untouchable (at least by our Justice Department).

Case closed.

Emily


Brian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1624 on: February 03, 2012, 10:33:21 PM »
Emily - - -   I'd love to see your list   :)

Brian

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1625 on: February 08, 2012, 01:45:57 AM »
The Durant's   S  o  C
Vol. VI  The REFORMATION
Pages 26-29




On February 25th 1308, Edward II took the oath that England requires of all her sovereigns. Having done so and being duly anointed with holy oils, he consigned the government to corrupt and incompetent hands, then devoted himself to a life of frivolity with one Piers Gaveston,  his Ganymede.  The barons soon rebelled, caught and slew Gaveston ( 1312 ), and subordinated Edward and England to their feudal oligarchy. After returning in disgrace from his defeat by the Scots at Bannockburn ( 1314 ), Edward solaced himself with a new love, Hugh le Despenser III. A conspiracy by his neglected wife, Isabella of France, and her paramour, Roger de Mortimer, deposed him ( 1326 ); he was murdered in Berkeley Castle by Mortimer’s agent ( 1327 ); and his fifteen-year-old son was crowned as Edward III.

The noblest event of this age in English history was the establishment, (1322 ) of a precedent that required the consent of a national assembly for the validity of any law. It had long been the custom of English monarchs, in their need, to summon a “King’s Council” of prominent nobles and prelates. In (1295) Edward I, warring with France, Scotland, and Wales, and most earnestly desirous of  cash and men, instructed “every city, borough, and leading town“ to send two Burgesses  ( enfranchised citizens), and every shire or county to send two knights ( minor nobles ), to  a national assembly, they would form, with the King’s Council, the first English Parliament. The towns had money, which their delegates might be persuaded to vote to the king; the shires had yeomen, who would make sturdy archers and pikemen. The time had come to build these forces into the structure of English government. There was no pretence at full democracy. The nobles and clergy remained the rulers of England. They owned most of the land , employed most of the population as their tenants or serfs, and organised and directed the armed forces of the nation.

The Parliament, (as it came to be called under Edward III )  met in the royal palace at Westminster, across from the historic Abbey. The archbishops, the eighteen bishops, and the major abbots sat at the right of the king; half a hundred dukes, marquises, earls, viscounts, and barons sat on his left, while the judges of the realm, seated on woolsacks to remind them how vital the wool trade was to England, attended to advise on points of  law. At the opening of the session the burgesses and knights-- later known as the Commons-- stood uncovered below a bar that separated them from the prelates and lords; now, for the first  time (1295 ) the national assembly had an Upper and Lower House. The united  Houses received from the king a ’pronunciato’ ( “the speech from the throne” ) explaining the subjects to be discussed and the appropriations desired. Then the Commons withdrew to meet in another hall, where they debated the royal proposals. Their deliberations ended, they delegated a “speaker” to report to the Upper House , and to present their petitions to the king. Then the two houses were given the reply of the sovereign, and were dismissed by him. Only the king had the right to summon or dissolve the Parliament.

In theory the powers of Parliament extended to legislation; in practice most of the statutes passed had been presented as bills by the royal ministers; but the Houses often submitted recommendations and grievances, and delayed the voting of funds till some satisfaction was obtained. The only  weapon the Commons had was this “power of the purse “; but as the cost of administration  and the wealth of the towns grew, the power of the Commons rose. The monarchy was neither  absolute  nor constitutional; the king could not openly and directly change a law made by Parliament or enact a knew one; but throughout the year he ruled without Parliament to check him. He succeeded to the throne not by election but by pedigree. His person was accounted religiously sacred; obedience and loyalty to him were inculcated with all the force of religion, custom, law, education,, and ceremonious oath. If this might not suffice, the law of treason directed that a captured rebel against the state should be dragged through the streets to the gallows, should have his entrails torn out and burned before his face, and should then be hanged.

In 1330  Edward III, eighteen, took over the government, and began one of the most eventful reigns in the history of England. “His body was comely,” says a contemporary chronicler, “ and his face was that of a god.”; till venery weakened him he was every inch a king. He almost ignored domestic politics, being a warrior rather than a statesman; he yielded powers to Parliament amiably so long as they financed his campaigns. Through his long rule he bled France white in the effort to add her to his crown. Yet there was chivalry in him, frequent gallantry, and such treatment of the captured French King John as would have graced King Arthur's court. Froissart tells a story, unverified, of how Edward tried to seduce the lovely Countess of Salisbury, was courteously repulsed, and staged a tournament in order to feast his soul on her beauty again. A charming legend tells how the countess dropped a garter while dancing at court, and how the king snatched it up from the floor, and said, “ Hone soit qui mal y pense” “shame on him who evil thinks of it “ The phrase became the motto of that Order of the Garter which Edward  founded toward 1349.

Alice Perrers proved less difficult than the Countess; though married, she yielded herself to  the avid monarch, took large grants of land in return, and acquired such influence over him that Parliament registered a protest. Queen Phillipa bore all this patiently, forgave him, and on her deathbed, asked him only to fulfill her pledges to charity, and “ when it shall please God to call you hence, to choose no other sepulchre but to lie by my side.” He promised  “with tears  in his eyes,“  returned to Alice, and gave her the Queen’s jewellery.

He waged his wars with energy, courage, and skill. War was then rated the highest and noblest work of kings; unwarlike rulers were despised, and three such in England’s history were deposed. If one might venture a slight anachronism, a natural death was a disgrace that no man could survive. The people suffered from the wars but, till this reign, had rarely fought in them; their children lost the memory of the suffering, heard old knightly tales of glory, and crowned with their choicest laurels those of their kings that shed the most alien blood.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Brian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1626 on: February 08, 2012, 10:35:09 AM »
Quote
“ Hone soit qui mal y pense”


This should be HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE

Was that a misprint from Durant or a slip of the finger from Trevor ?

Other renditions include HONNI SOIT QUY MAL Y PENSE,  but I have
never seen HONE before in this context.

Brian

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1627 on: February 08, 2012, 03:40:25 PM »
I've always bwondered here the Order of the Garter came from.

3kings(Trevor)

  • Posts: 347
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1628 on: February 08, 2012, 03:55:06 PM »
Brian. Sorry about that. (HONE instead of HONI, my mistake.) I sometimes have Wisia read and correct my typing, but this time I neglected to do so. I'm sure you all would have noted I also wrote KNEW instead of NEW!!  My apologies. I must try and improve....   Trevor

Brian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1629 on: February 08, 2012, 04:31:02 PM »
No problem, Trevor - - -  you are doing an excellent job.

Brian

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1630 on: February 08, 2012, 08:19:10 PM »
If you can put up with my bad typing and terrible spelling, I can certainly forgive the occasional mistake in the reams of material you have to enter!

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1631 on: February 08, 2012, 08:33:15 PM »
Eastside, Westside, mid 1960s!! Longer ago than i thot. Elizabeth Wilson - don't remember her, Cicely Tyson, set in NYC.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056753/

bookad

  • Posts: 284
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1632 on: February 09, 2012, 09:27:01 AM »
house of commons
throne speech
parliament
speaker of the house

fascinating to find where origins of government systems
came into being--I remember an interesting course while in
high school some 40+ years ago regarding our Canadian
parliamentary system...so very interesting at the time, but
faded from memory now

always enjoy when the past hooks up with the present; finding the
whys of present customs of doing things

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1633 on: February 10, 2012, 02:00:19 PM »
Sorry, i just realized the above comment was in the wrong site.... ??? ::) my ipad hexed me!

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1634 on: February 10, 2012, 02:36:22 PM »
I'm reading The Sunne in Splendour by Sharon Kay Penman, which is subtitled "a novel of Richard III," but through the first half (500 pages) spends as much time on EdwardIV as on Richard. Penman portrays Edward IV much as Durant portrays Edward III in appearance and behavior. As i read Durant's paragraph about parliament it dawned on me that Penman ignored any activity of parliament, Edward IV has been concerned only about the Wars of the Roses and keeping the crown out of the hands of the Lancastrians. But i see, as Durant goes on, that he acknowledges as much about the kings, the importance of war and power above all else.

The people's lives seem to be of no value, a constant concern of which army is coming thru and what they will do and will i be on the right side in the end? Endless cruelty. Endless greed for power. Has the world changed? Or not?

 

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1635 on: February 10, 2012, 02:42:42 PM »
"Has the world changed? Or not?"

Only in that, for many people, it doesn't matter whether you are on the right side or not. modern weapons don't care.

marjifay

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1636 on: February 14, 2012, 01:12:40 PM »
It was interesting to read how many of those medieval kings were warriors who felt it was degrading to die a natural death.  Then I remembered my favorite book read last year was AGINCOURT by Bernard Cornwell, an exciting historical fiction story of Henry V's invasion of France in 1415.

Re Mabel's question, "Has the world changed? Or not?"  Currently, the United States has about 700 military bases in (per Wikipedia) more than 150 countries around the world.  And unlike medieval times, where warfare was conducted by hand-to-hand bloody combat, warfare is now being conducted from remote areas.  I.e., we are now planning to use more and more drone airplanes to attack people.  From hundreds or thousands of miles away, pilot "operators" can move and manipulate these drones with their lethal cargo to their destinations.  Like a deadly video game.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1637 on: February 14, 2012, 01:46:02 PM »
Maybe my question should have been, have people changed? In many ways i see that people around the world are less prone to physical violence, but then we have the ruler of Syria and his followers who appear to have no qualms about killing and maiming, as have other armies throughout the world.

OTOH, soldiers in our military and European militaries have been brought to trial for rape and pillage in recent decades, so "western" gov'ts no longer sanction rape and pillage. (i hate to use the word western, it can be misconstrued as prejudicial, but those are the countries i have the most knowledge about)  It seems in many countries today it is inappropiate to declare your greed for power and money, unless you are Donald Trump.  ;D But we still admire people who have been "ambitious" enough to acguire power and money....... We seem to have a scheziphrenia about power and money.

I guess my answer to my question is that we as human beings have changed somewhat in our belief in the value of the person and some socities have rules, therefore values, that support caring about the individual and denounce cruelty, theft and violence. I would say that's some improvement in the human psyche. 

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1638 on: February 16, 2012, 03:17:11 AM »
Durant's  S  o  C
Vol VI  The REFORMATION
pages 29-35




When Edward proposed to conquer France, few of his councillors dared to advise conciliation. Only when the war dragged on through a generation, and had burdened even the rich with taxes, did the national conscience raise a cry for peace. Discontent neared revolution when Edward’s campaigns, passing from victory to failure, threatened the collapse of the nation’s economy. Till 1370 Edward had profited in war and diplomacy from the wise and loyal service of Sir John Chandos. when his hero died, his place at the head of the King's Council was taken by Edward’s son, the Duke of Lancaster, named John of Gaunt. John carelessly turned the government over to political buccaneers who fattened there purses at the public expense. Demands for reform were raised in Parliament, and men of good will prayed for the nations happy recovery through the King’s speedy death. Another of his sons the Black Prince -- named probably for the colour of his armour-- might have brought new vigour to the government, but in 1376 he passed away while the old king lingered on. The “Good Parliament “ of that year enacted some reform measures, put two malfeasants in jail, ordered Alice Perrers from the court, and bound the bishops to excommunicate her if she returned. After the parliament dispersed, Edward, ignoring its decrees, restored John of Gaunt to power and Alice to the royal bed; and no bishop dared reprove her. At last the obstinate monarch consented to die (1377). A son of the Black  Prince succeeded to the throne as Richard II, a lad of eleven years, amid economic and political chaos, and religious revolt.

                                                JOHN  WYCLIF: 1320-84

What gnawed at the purse nerves of laity and government was the expanding and migratory wealth of the English Church. The clergy on several occasions contributed a tenth of their income to the state, but they insisted that no tax could be laid upon them without the consent of their convocations. They gathered, directly or by proctors, in convocations under the archbishops of Canterbury and York, and determined there all  matters dealing with religion or the clergy. It was usually from the ranks of clergy, as the best-educated class in England, that the king chose the highest officials of the state. The bishops’ courts had sole jurisdiction over  tonsured offenders. Also, in many towns the Church leased property to tenants and claimed full judicial authority over these tenants, even when they committed crimes. Such conditions were irritating, but the major irritant was the flow of wealth from the English Church to the popes-- i.e. in the fourteenth century, to Avignon --i.e. to France. It was estimated that more English money went to the pope than to the state or the king. In 1333 Edward III refused to pay any longer the tribute that  King John of England had pledged to the popes in 1213. In 1351 the Statute of Provisors sought to end papal control over the personnel or revenues of English benefices. The First Statute of Praemunire 1353, outlawed Englishmen who sued in “foreign“ ( papal ) courts on matters claimed by the king to lie under secular jurisdiction. In 1376 the Commons officially complained that papal collectors in England were sending great sums of money to the pope, and that absentee French cardinals were drawing rich revenues from English sees. The anticlerical party at  the court was led by John of Gaunt, whose protection enabled John Wyclif to die a natural death.

Wyclif, the first of the English reformers was born at Hipswell near the village of Wyclif, in north Yorkshire about 1320. He studied at Oxford, became professor of theology there, and for a year ( 1360) was Master of Balliol College. His literary activity was alarming. He wrote vast Scholastic treatises on metaphysics, theology, and logic, two volumes of polemics, four of sermons, and a medley of short but influential tracts, including the famous “Tractatus de civili dominio“. Most of his compositions were in graceless and impenetrable Latin that should have made them harmless to any but grammarians. But hidden among these obscurities were explosive ideas that almost  severed Britain from the Roman Church 155 years before Henry VIII, plunged Bohemia into civil war, and anticipated nearly all the reform ideas of John Huss and Martin Luther.

Putting his worst foot forward, and surrendering to Augustine’s logic and eloquence, Wyclif built his creed upon the awful doctrine of predestination which was to remain even to our day the magnet and solvent of Protestant theology. God, wrote Wyclif, gives his grace to whomever He wishes, and has predestined each individual, an eternity before birth, to be lost or saved through all eternity. Good works do not win salvation, but they indicate that he who does them has received divine grace and is one of the elect. We act according to the disposion that God has allotted to us; to invert Heraclitus, our fate is our character. Only Adam and Eve had free will; by their disobedience they lost it for themselves and for posterity.

God is sovereign lord of us all. The allegiance that we owe Him is direct, as is the oath of every Englishman to the king, not indirect through allegiance to a subordinate lord, as in Feudal France. Hence the relationship of man to God is direct, and requires no intermediary; any claim of Church or priest to be a necessary medium must be repelled. In this sense all Christians are priests, and need no ordination. God holds dominion over all the earth and the contents thereof; a human being can justly hold property only as His obedient vassal. Anyone who is in a state of sin- which constitutes rebellion against the Divine Sovereign -- loses all right of possession; for rightful possession ( “dominion” ) requires a state of grace.

Wyclif argued; Now it is clear from Scripture that Christ intended His apostles, their successors and their ordained delegates to have no property. Any church or priest  owning property is violating the Lord’s commandment, is therefore in a state of sin, and consequently cannot validly administer the sacraments. The reform most needed in Church and clergy is their complete renunciation of worldly goods. As if this were not troublesome enough, Wyclif deduced from his theology a theoretical communism and anarchism. Any person in a state of grace shares with God the ownership of all goods; ideally everything should be held by righteous common. Private property and government ( as some Scholastic philosophers had taught ) are results of Adam’s sin. ( ie. of human nature ) and man’s inherited sinfulness; in a society of universal virtue there would be no individual ownership, no man made laws of either Church or state. Suspecting that the radicals, who were at this time meditating revolt in England, would interpret this literally, Wyclif explained that his communism was to be understood only in the ideal sense; the powers that be, as Paul had taught, are ordained by God, and must be obeyed. This flirtation with revolution was almost precisely repeated by Luther in 1525.

The anticlerical party saw some sense, if not in Wyclif’s communism, at least in his condemnation of ecclesiastical wealth. When parliament again refused to pay King John’s tribute to the pope( 1366) Wyclif was engaged as “peculiaris regis clericus “-- a cleric in service of the king-- to prepare a defense of the act. In 1374 Edward the III gave him the rectory of Lutterworth, apparently as a retaining fee. When John of Gaunt proposed that the government should confiscate part of the Church’s property, he invited Wyclif to defend the proposal in a series of sermons in London; Wyclif complied ( September 1376 ), and was thereafter branded by the clerical party as a tool of Gaunt. The preacher was summoned to appear before a council of prelates at St. Paul‘s. He came accompanied by John of Gaunt with an armed retinue. A fracas ensued and the Bishop thought it discreet to adjourn. Wyclif returned unhurt to Oxford. In May, Gregory XI issued bulls condemning eighteen of Wyclif’s proposals, mostly from the treatise “ On Civil Dominion “, and ordered Archbishop Sudbury and Bishop Courtenay to inquire whether Wyclif still held these views; if he did , they were to arrest him and keep him in chains pending further instructions.

By this time Wyclif had won support of a large body of public opinion. The Parliament that met in October (1376 ) was strongly anticlerical. The argument for disendowment of the Church had charms for many members, who reckoned that if the King should seize the wealth now held by English bishops, abbots, and priors, he could maintain with it fifteen earls, 1500 knights, 6200 squires, and have 20,000 pounds a year left for himself. At this time France was preparing to invade England, and the English treasury was almost empty; how foolish it seemed to let papal agents collect funds from English parishes for a French pope and a college of cardinals overwhelmingly French! The King’s advisers asked Wyclif to prepare an opinion on the  matter. He answered in a pamphlet that in effect called for the severance of the English Church from the papacy. Wyclif recommended the ecclesiastical independence of England. “ The Realm of England, in the words of Scripture, ought to be one body, and clergy, lords, and commonality members of that body.” This anticipation of Henry  VIII seemed so bold that the King’s advisers directed Wyclif to make no further statements on the matter.

The Parliament adjourned on November 28. On December 18 the embattled bishops published the condemnatory bulls, and bade the Chancellor of Oxford to enforce the Pope’s order of arrest. Half the faculty supported Wyclif, at least in his right to express his opinions. The Chancellor refused to obey the bishops, and denied the authority of any prelate over the university in matters of belief; meanwhile he counselled Wyclif to remain in modest seclusion. But it is a rare reformer who can be silent. In March 1378, Wyclif appeared before the bishop’s assembly at Lambeth to defend his views. As the hearing was about to begin, the Archbishop received a letter from the mother of King Richard II deprecating any final condemnation of Wyclif; and in the midst of proceedings a crowd forced  its way in from the street, and declared that the English people would not tolerate any Inquisition in England. Yielding to this combination of government and populace, the bishops deferred decision, and again Wyclif went home unhurt-- indeed triumphant. On March 27 Gregory XI died and a few months later the Papal Schism divided and weakened the papacy, and the whole authority of the Church. Wyclif resumed the offensive, and issued tract after tract, many in English, extending his heresies and revolt.

He is pictured to us in these years as a man hardened by controversy, and made puritan by age. He was no mystic; rather a warrior and an organizer, and perhaps carried his logic to merciless extremes. His talent for vituperation now disported itself freely. He denounced the friars for preaching poverty and accumulating wealth. “ Prelates deceive men by feigned indulgences or pardons, and rob them cursedly of their money... Men be great fools that buy these bulls of pardon so dear.” If the pope had the power to snatch souls from purgatory, why did he not in Christian charity take them out at once?  With mounting vehemence Wyclif alleged that “ many priests..... defile wives, maidens, widows, and nuns in every  manner of lechery” and demanded that the crimes of the clergy should be punishable by secular courts. He excoriated curates who flattered the rich and despised the poor, who easily forgave the sins of the wealthy but excommunicated the indigent for unpaid tithes, who hunted, hawked, and gambled, and related fake miracles. Luther’s language is forecast. “Simony reigns in all states of the Church.... The simony of the court of Rome does most harm, for it is most common, and under the colour of holiness, and robs most of our land of men and treasure. “ Christ had not whereon to rest His head, but men say this pope has more than half the Empire . . . Christ was meek . . . the pope sits on his throne and makes lords kiss his feet. Perhaps, Wyclif gently suggested, the pope is the Antichrist predicted in the First Epistle of the Apostle John, the Beast of the Apocalypse, heralding the second coming of Christ.

The solution of the problem, as Wyclif saw it, lay in separating the Church from all material possessions and power. Christ and His apostles had lived in poverty, so should his priests. If the clergy should not disendow themselves by a voluntary return to evangelical poverty, the state should step in and confiscate their goods. Kings are responsible to God alone, from Whom they derive their dominion.  Instead of accepting the doctrine of Gregory VII and Boniface VIII that secular governments must be subject to the Church, the state should consider itself supreme in all temporal matters. Priests should be ordained by the king. In general we should doubt the validity of a sacrament admistered by a sinful or heretical priest. Nor can a priest, good or bad, change the bread and wine of the Eucharist into the physical body and blood of Christ.  Like Luther, Wyclif denied transubstantiation, but not the Real Presence. By a mystery that neither pretended to explain, Christ was made spiritually, truly, really, effectively  present, along with the bread and wine, which did not , as the Church taught , cease to exist.

bookad

  • Posts: 284
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1639 on: February 18, 2012, 07:35:09 AM »
I am finding it fascinating that era of late 1300s & in the book group with 'Charles Dickens' a Wat Tyler is in 1800s book 'Bleak House'--Wat Tyler leads a peasant revolt against injustices delivered by the British aristocratic some 30 years following the 'black death'

interesting the timelines overlapping in two book groups...too bad not as easy to put all the 1300 era events easily together

to be Wat Tyler, occupation roof tiler, alive in that time subjected to the clergy, the aristocrats and their whims, surrounded by his friends all struggling because of their lot in life --the head tax imposed that expected every man whether high born or poor to pay the same money....sounds as this last fact might have been 'the straw that broke the camel's back' in provoking the peasant uprising

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.