Author Topic: Mystery Corner ~ 2  (Read 910302 times)

maryz

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7040 on: January 01, 2015, 07:28:01 PM »

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Too much information for those of us who haven't finished the book.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

JoanK

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7041 on: January 01, 2015, 07:43:50 PM »
OK, let's hold off til tomorrow.

And no spoilers of who or what turns out to be behind it all, please!

One of my grandchildren (age 11) has been diagnosed with autism spectrum. He is the grandchild I know the least: he has never opened up to me the way the others have. I am looking in the book for clues here in how he might be thinking, and how to relate to him.

Any suggestions from those with similar problems?

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7042 on: January 01, 2015, 08:05:09 PM »
I'm sorry, Mary!  I did not think I got into the storyline at all, but was just describing what we learned from the very first chapters about Jenny herself.  I did not mean to give up too much information, and I deeply apologize for having done so.

Steph

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7043 on: January 02, 2015, 08:31:56 AM »
Jenny is fascinating to me, but I will say that my Asburgers grandson does not watch or look at people like that. He backs away from human contact and feels about his tech objects like she does about the computers though. Colin is  a bit irritating to me at this point, but I am at the midway of the story.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7044 on: January 02, 2015, 09:31:51 AM »
That very point bothered me, as well, Steph.  My two little autistic great grandsons were of the don't look anyone in the eye sort of autistic.  As was, and pretty much is, my dear friend's brilliant Asperger's Syndrome autistic son.  My two great grandsons have had intervention therapy since they were tiny toddlers, and now, at ages 9 and 10, they would strike, let us imagine a complete outsider who suddenly was exposed to them for half a day, as normal-odd.  Normal boys very focused on their own interests.  One is a math savant and one a music savant, but they are definitely not that much interested in YOU, whoever you are.  They have learned to be polite and responsive to people, however. 

It is obvious in this book that strangers who meet Jenny find her very strange very quickly.  That she would be brilliant fits the patterns on the autistic spectrum, but that she would read people so well does not fit.  Except, of course, if we allow for the fact that autistics tend to have one particular genius focal point and this is obviously hers.  Or she may have deliberately chosen to learn to do this (the book mentions over and over again her special courses) BECAUSE she did not have natural skills in reading people.  I saw a documentary about the brain once that showed babies who were completely normal reacting in a completely normal way to photographs of adults smiling, frowning, looking threatening, looking happy, and so on.  Then they showed autistic babies being shown the same photos and not reacting AT ALL.  Apparently this is actually one of the tests given in order to come up with a definite diagnosis.  Autistics do not, as a normal rule, 'READ" people's facial expressions in the very normal, everyday manner in which even the smallest baby learns to do very swiftly. 
But then again, I have to tell myself, there is a very wide spectrum of autism, AND research has just scratched the surface of what we will one day know.  I am just so glad that we are finally paying attention and digging into how these human beings function and what can be done to help them live in the real world.
The business of Jenny not wanting to be touched and of her being so OCD perfectionist, those are typical of autism.  About her not liking to be touched, I have a very strong comment about that when we get to a particular part of the book;  I want to be careful about not getting into the story itself yet;  but she does, at one point in the middle of the book or so, make reference to something I found exceedingly strange.  It most definitely jarred with my view of Jenny.
Just for the record here, I have finished the book.

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7045 on: January 02, 2015, 09:55:23 AM »
I just have to add something that gives me vast personal amusement, and I'll bet a whole lot of you have been doing it, as well, and that is choosing the perfect cast of Hollywood actors for the  movie.  Being dead makes no never mind.  I have Cary Grant playing Colin and Kathryn Hepburn as Jenny.  I cannot remember the name of the big guy I have down for Vinnie, but I remember him well.

FlaJean

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7046 on: January 02, 2015, 10:52:02 AM »
I saw an interesting interview of Jerry Seinfeld the other day.  He told the interviewer that he believed he was a little autistic because he had difficulty conversing with others.  He said he doesn't get the nuances in conversations and often doesn't understand what someone is saying.  The interviewer was quite surprised by the statement as I was, but I thought of that when reading Jenny's problems along that line.

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7047 on: January 02, 2015, 01:02:20 PM »
Yes, Jenny definitely sees language literally, all black and white.  She does not understand slang, sarcasm, or idioms.  This is most definitely one of the traits of autism, but I have a harder time understanding this than some of their other more blatant handicaps.  I am unable to wrap my head around the fact that, like everyone else they do learn language and I find myself expecting these different shadings of speech to just go along with learning to speak.  Obviously I am wrong, and I do not argue with that;  I just have a terrible time, no, I find it impossible to understand.

JoanK

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7048 on: January 02, 2015, 05:02:40 PM »
MARY PAGE: "Or she may have deliberately chosen to learn to do this (the book mentions over and over again her special courses) BECAUSE she did not have natural skills in reading people."

That's what I was thinking. But how could she learn in such a subtle way? She reads expressions even when there is no other clue to have taught her what the expression means.

Another thing interests me. Someone asks her how it feels to know what people are feeling, and she says it makes her feel secure. She must have a completely different view of people than we do -- it makes me realize that we all "believe" the false social pretenses of amiability even though we know they exist and use them ourselves. If they were stripped away, we would all be hurt. It's a kind of collective social delusion, that greases the wheels of interaction. Maybe the world would be a better place if we could all read them and learn to accept people as they REALLY are.

JoanK

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7049 on: January 02, 2015, 05:09:57 PM »
Back to autism: it's definitely NOT true that my autistic grandson doesn't care what people think of him. He is very upset because he feels he has no friends and that no one likes him (which actually isn't true).

We are a huggy family, and when he was younger, he would obviously hate the hugs. So I worked out that we do head-bumps instead: it's our thing. But now, he hugs with the rest. If he has an area of concentration, he hasn't found it yet.

mabel1015j

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7050 on: January 02, 2015, 11:58:25 PM »
"greed, one of man's greatest weaknesses". Humans disgust me.

I think this line by Genevieve gives us some insight into her. She sees herself as separate from other people, maybe not even one of the species  :), and it shows her internal sense of humor, even if she's not showing it to other people. That humor was one of the things i liked about her.

Jean

Steph

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7051 on: January 03, 2015, 09:05:50 AM »
My grandson does look directly at people. His mother spent hours and hours with him, showing him how people react to this. He has in the last year or so decided to hug and is sort of funny in that he absolutely must huge you hello and goodbye.. Very important to him. Jenny mentions over and over the special training and I would dearly love a more complete explanation.
She reads people very well, but I am a bit puzzled because at the very beginning of the book, anything the least bit different sent her off to the music writing and now she seems to be doing the music in her head??
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7052 on: January 03, 2015, 09:14:18 AM »
Well, I don't know, Jean;  I feel pretty much the same way that line infers.  That is to say, I think we are a pretty amazing species and a very disgusting one!  The numbers of our own kind that we slaughter continually without cease is enough alone to condemn us.  And yes, Greed rules and we condemn our descendants to spiraling death rather than forego the profits to this generation and choose to clean up the planet: land, sky and oceans.  We make perfectly dreadful generalities about other peoples, and rule them out to the last newborn as to any chance of their erasing some of the bleakness of their living conditions.  No, I do not find anything uniquely autistic about Jenny's thoughts re her fellow human beings.

salan

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7053 on: January 03, 2015, 09:54:23 AM »
I loved Jenny's reaction to Colin & Vinnie.  From the beginning they both treated her differently than most people did.  They seemed to have an insight and acceptance of her differences.  She, in turn, learned to accept both of them more readily than she accepted others.  I did not find it strange that she could read people.  Didn't the book state that Jenny spent alot of time studying mannerisms and body language?  Didn't you just love Vinnie?
Sally

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7054 on: January 03, 2015, 10:24:39 AM »
I loved Vinnie, Colin and Manny.  And Phillip.  And Francine.  I loved them all.  Dying to get into the particulars and peculiarities of the story itself.
I would not mind having a Vinnie of my very own!

ANNIE

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7055 on: January 03, 2015, 11:59:55 AM »
I have a great nephew who has Asbergers, attends regular high school and is in the Air Force High School Reserves. His parents are so proud of him.  He plans on applying to the Colorado School of Mining when he graduates which is 3 years from now.  His great great grandfather was a mining engineer. 
Have any of you read "Born On A Blue Day"?  Wonderful book, written by a functioning Autiistic man and his incredible parents of 6 children.  Two of whom have autism or asbergers
Syndrome.  Actually, he has written a sequel to the Blue Day book.
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

FlaJean

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7056 on: January 03, 2015, 12:14:29 PM »
To my knowledge I don't know anyone who is a diagnosed autistic person (functional or non-functional) so I am probably getting all kinds of wrong information in this story.  However, it is an entertaining mystery and I've really enjoyed it.

Frybabe

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7057 on: January 03, 2015, 12:29:17 PM »
I really like her descriptions of the Alpha male behavior she observes.

I see very little, if any, that relates to my nephew who was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome years ago (after first treating him as an ADHD child for most of his school life).

mabel1015j

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7058 on: January 03, 2015, 01:42:18 PM »
Flajean - stick around long enough with the next 2 or 3 generations and you may well know someone who has autistic children. I swear there must be something environmental about its presence. I knew noone with the diagnosis and now the third generation seems to be very prone to having it. I don't think it's just better diagnosis ability. One of my dgts friends has two dgts who are severly autistic, a friend of my sons has two boys, one fairly severe, the other not so severe. They also have a dgt who is not autistic.

Both sets of parents grew up in NJ, one set in the north, one set in the south. Air pollution? Water pollution? Plastics? Bioengineered food? I think it must be something that the next generation has been in contact with that generates the possibility of some change in the brain of fetuses.

Jean

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7059 on: January 03, 2015, 02:15:21 PM »
Jean, I agree with you totally, with one small addition.  I do tend to think it may be environmental, some things that we now have too much of in our dirt, water, and air, but I also think it may be evolutional.  We do change with the years, and normally no one generation notices the changes.  We would have to have the ability to jump back or forward a few hundred years at a time to actually see it.

When we were young, there might be one in a large family of children who would be declared "simple."  "Oh, don't mind Jack;  he's simple."  Unable to communicate well, but, if lucky enough to be in a farm family, one who had a special way with the sheep and the dogs and such like.  Otherwise, possibly pretty much cast out and destined to die young.

If my granddaughter Jenny had not fought like a tigress to have her children diagnosed and given therapy, and folks, we are talking as many as THREE separate therapists PER DAY per child, week in and week out, they would both be totally lost in their own closed in worlds and her days would be filled with heart wrenching melt downs.  As it is, the 10 year old only has two therapists and only two days a week, now.  The 9 year old still needs much more help, but he is doing GREAT and will be high functioning eventually.  Both are coping well in a regular public school environment.  The ten year old is the math savant.  He helps his fellow fifth graders, his teacher, and his (normal) Middle School brother.  That's another thing concerning brain formation:  "seeing" math and understanding how it works from the git go.  Absolutely stuns me.

They say that somewhere in the early weeks when the zygote is dividing and multiplying, the developing embryo is given something like a car wash of hormones.  This, they now believe, is when sexual mixups can occur.  Nature is never perfect;  it always makes a few errors in the copies it is making or in the amount and/or mix of hormones secreted.  So we get male sex organs with female brains, and vice versa, plus many other variations occur.  No doubt the formation of the brain follows a similar program.  Now that we can actually, and this has only come about in MY lifetime, see viruses (which are not actually alive as such) with a highly specialized electronic microscope and see what they do in the matter of forcing themselves into cells and forcing those cells to do nothing further in our bodies EXCEPT make copies of the virus;  in short, turn that cell into their own private Xerox machine, we (the scientists, not me!) are learning ever so much more about the making of our own selves from the fertilization of the egg on.  Fascinating stuff.


MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7061 on: January 03, 2015, 07:44:46 PM »
One of the things I do these days in order to compensate for the years I spent in art galleries, which I can no longer visit, is that I have the Art Puzzles app on my iPad.  Gauguin is one of the artists whose gallery of paintings I have purchased, but Still Life: The White Bowl is not among them.  I do not recall ever having seen it before Estelle Ryan advised us to check it out, but I do love it.  The colors are divine, and it is such a change from his and many other still life works of art.  I am delighted that Ryan featured this painting and thus introduced me to it.

However, she also gave us a Degas (Women Ironing) to look at, and I do not recall running into mention of that one in this book.  Do you suppose it crops up later in the series?  Or perhaps she edited it out of the original manuscript of this book?

maryz

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7062 on: January 03, 2015, 09:08:24 PM »
Did I read aboutThe Art Forger here?  I finished that one right before I started The Gaugin Connection.  I haven't finished this book, but there are lots of similarities in talking about the "professional" art forgers.  Interesting.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

Frybabe

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7063 on: January 04, 2015, 07:14:05 AM »
I am almost totally unfamiliar with Gauguin's paintings other than his Tahitian period. Still Life with White Bowl is listed as being from his "Breton Period". Did you know he wrote a book about his experiences in Tahiti and the Marquesas? I'm going to check to see if Project Gutenberg or Archives.org have it in English. If you click on the periods listed at the right of his self-portrait you can get a view of his art. Lots of it. Unfortunately, many of the art thumbnails don't show on my computer. http://www.wikiart.org/en/paul-gauguin

I've finished the book. Hopefully, I can get around to the next one relatively soon, but I still am in the middle of Donna Leon's Brunetti series and have one more book for the Baker Street series. Regarding the last, the characters are likable but I do have a problem with a Queen's Council lawyer being such a dunderhead. The smartest of the bunch seems to be his actress girlfriend.


Steph

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7064 on: January 04, 2015, 09:44:49 AM »
Gauguin and Van Gogh.. They were friends and actually lived together for a period of time and painted the same things and wow are they different.I saw a show years ago with them side by side and it was amazing.
I find the murder and her being accused as clumsy.. If the evil ones are this smart, they would know she was unavailable at the time of the murder,, but maybe it was just buying time.. The passage of five hours sets me back.. She goes into a fugue state??
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7065 on: January 04, 2015, 10:09:11 AM »
I have at least a dozen such questions, Steph.   But I did not want to get into the actual storyline and the anomalies until everyone has finished the book.  As to your question, the timing did not bother me, as I think it was deliberately set up for a time when she would be sure to be at home.  I mean, it was a time when ANYone would normally be at home, and they had not known about her very long, so why would they guess otherwise?  But the thing that stuck out to me was that they did not break into the general's safe and get all the stuff he had on them.  It just did not make sense to me that Colin went in after the murder and got those incriminating flashdrives out of the safe and out of the apartment!
I love this book.  Pure pleasure reading it.  But I do go nuts over the little things that don't fit well.  I do that with everything I read.  Naturally that kind of perfectionism also makes me go berserk when I hear politicians give camouflaged answers to questions, without ever actually answering them.  Which is just about all of the time!

Frybabe

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7066 on: January 04, 2015, 10:51:59 AM »
I agree, MaryPage. There seem to be a number of, shall we say lapses in credibility, but it is a good read anyway. I think it is because I like and care about the characters. I am anxious to read the next book (but others must come first) as the promo states that she is betrayed by friends. I do hope it isn't any of the Fab Five (Colin, Francine, Manny, Phillip and Vinnie).

FlaJean

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7067 on: January 04, 2015, 11:41:16 AM »
Regarding the murder and arrest:  The four intruders left Jenny alive but they took her fingerprints (she remembered them pressing her hand against something) so they had already planned for their use in some way.    I think the leader was "playing" or testing Jenny as well as possibly buying time.  However, their leaving the flash drives in the safe doesn't make sense to me either.

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7068 on: January 04, 2015, 12:17:22 PM »
Agreed.  Those professional thugs were so very thorough in searching Jenny's apartment and terrorizing her, and then to just go in the general's apartment and NOT search for a safe and the contents thereof just does not make sense.  And on top of that, they did such a crummy and unprofessional job of making it look like a burglary attempt.  Even stupid old lady me could figure out that if they actually WERE conducting a search, they would have disturbed ALL of the sofa pillows, and not just a couple of them.  Scheesch!
Did it bother you that on page 409 Jenny uses the term:  red-handed?  It appears to me that is one of those terms she just would not relate to.
And on page 399, that thug who came down the staircase:  HOW?  Jenny had moved the key from its usual place over the doorway to underneath the footstool.  He would not have had a key.  And the door was an automatic lock.

mabel1015j

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7069 on: January 04, 2015, 12:40:09 PM »
In this mornings email from the Smithsonian, another reason to avoid as many chemicals as possible...........bring on the vinegar!

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/puberty-beginning-earlier-girls-so-what-can-parents-do-180953738/?utm_source=smithsoniantopic&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20150104&spMailingID=21921377&spUserID=NzQwNDUzNjY5NzES1&spJobID=480229148&spReportId=NDgwMjI5MTQ4S0

Joan - Thanks for the links to the paintings, i liked the ones with the oranges and raspberries in them the best. Has any of you read American Pie? Two women friends need to drive across the country and decide to have a motivator/entertainment of searching for the best pie in each area where they stop. (Non-fiction, with recipes) The writer also becomes enthalled with mixing bowls and begins to collect. If my rational self had not been so strong (where would i put them? ) i could have been a collector of such bowls. I had a nice brownstone bowl from my mother and i gave in once or twice and bought some bowls i just couldn't resist, but ones i have used frequently.

I agree, i had some questions about some situations in G C, but i enjoyed the story too much to be upset by them.

Jean

JoanK

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7070 on: January 04, 2015, 04:19:36 PM »
I agree, some of the mystery plotting is weak, but there's so much else, I'm willing to forgive her. Hopefully it will get better in her later books. The author has a plotting handicap with a detective who can read what people are really feeling. She'll have to keep the murderer and detective apart till the end.

JoanK

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7071 on: January 04, 2015, 04:28:07 PM »
I hope someone makes a movie of this with the art displayed and the Mozart as background.

Toward the end, she mentally plays the slow movement of Mozart's piano concerto No. 27, saying it always makes her feel peaceful.

I couldn't find a recording with just the slow movement: It's in the middle of the recording below. If you put your cursor at the bottom of the picture, a band will appear with the time a the left. There are three yellow stripes in the band. If you click just to the right of the first yellow band (at minute 13.33) you get the part she's talking about (if you click on the band, you get an annoying ad).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61S3yv_Fwg8

JoanK

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7072 on: January 04, 2015, 04:39:36 PM »
Meanwhile, FRYBABE, I love the Baker Street series, and am willing to believe in the dumb lawyer, because it's so funny.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/r/michael-robertson/

The premise is: the lawyer (in modern times) has an office on Baker Street which he is able to rent cheap if he agrees to answer all letters that come in addressed to Sherlock Holmes.  course, he's meant to send a form letter, but his dippy brother reads them, and occasionally gets one reporting a real murder, and convinced Holmes is still alive and living there.

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7073 on: January 04, 2015, 05:00:40 PM »
Yes, I'd like a movie too, please.

With the art masterpieces and the Mozart.

Lovely.

Since I cannot have Cary Grant & Katherine Hepburn, who is out there today who could manage?

Colin Farrell for Colin?

Is Cate Blanchett too old now to do Jenny?

Jennifer Lawrence?  Bet she could do it!

I honestly wasn't looking for a Colin to play Colin and a Jennifer to play Jenny, but that's what came up!

JoanK

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7074 on: January 04, 2015, 05:19:16 PM »
 ;D

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7075 on: January 05, 2015, 08:50:02 AM »
I have an email this morning from Estelle Ryan (I signed up on her website for these) announcing THE PUCELLE CONNECTION has been published today.  Number Six in the Connection series.

Steph

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7076 on: January 05, 2015, 08:58:37 AM »
Oh me, will look up her website.. I am almost done, but Downton Abbey interfered.. so today at some point, will finish.. The only one we have not met in person is Francine?? or does she appear in the last few pages.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7077 on: January 05, 2015, 09:03:41 AM »
We hear a lot about her and get great results from her before meeting her in person on page 382.  We like her.  A lot!

Francine makes Jenny's "team" complete.  My take is that each and every one of the "criminals" involved is actually using their criminal talents on behalf of the good guys.  Colin is working for Interpol,  Vinnie is either working for Interpol or the U.S. or independently when called upon by those we consider the good guys.  Francine may be strictly Interpol, but I suspect she, too, is an independent contractor for the good guys.  Mannie knows all this, but does not disturb their cover.  He and Colin have an old feud going.

So it is all a matter of perspective as to whether or not they are "criminals."  We know perfectly well, as sane adults, that both the good guys and the bad guys use illegal means to protect their interests.  In the matter of Jenny's team of highly trained and intelligent people, we can rest assured they are working on behalf of OUR interests.  Whether we approve or not is determined by our individual perspectives as to the rights and wrongs of using illegal methods to protect and preserve our national interests.

Tomereader1

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7078 on: January 05, 2015, 01:59:03 PM »
Maybe even Amy Adams as Jenny?  I think she has a more "serious" face, although I love Jennifer Lawrence!

Colin?  Hmm, have to give that some more thought!
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

MaryPage

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Re: Mystery Corner ~ 2
« Reply #7079 on: January 05, 2015, 02:55:18 PM »
Yeah, I bet Amy Adams could do it!