Science Fiction / Fantasy

[Scottieluvr]

Science Fiction / Fantasy

__________________

Welcome to the whole universe!  This is where we gather to share our experiences in science fiction and fantasy.  We like everything, from Gregory Benford to Stephanie Meyer—hard science to magic and fantasy. Come in, sit down with us, and tell us what you are reading or have read, what you like or dislike.

Links: Fantastic Fiction, bibliographies of 15,000 authors

Discussion Leader:  PatH

Hayao Miyazaki: I like what I've seen of his stuff, but from the description, don't see why Future Boy Conan is steampunk.

An anime lover too? Me too... There's no end to our love of the written word.  

[Steph]

I tried Gibson several times, but never finished any of the books. Just not my cup of tea..

[PatH]

Someone here liked Guy Gavriel Kay's Under Heaven, a fantasy set in an imaginary version of 8th century China.  This morning's paper has a review of a new novel in that setting, River of Stars.  The reviewer is very enthusiastic, certainly makes me want to read it.

[Scottieluvr]

Had to look this gentleman up and this is what popped out at me in learning about this author: William Gibson is know for his cyberpunk writings but collaborated with Bruce Sterling to write, “The Difference Engine”. An alternative history (i.e., steampunk) story. He has a fascinating life history so far; definitely “lived” life not just sitting around watching it walk [or run] by. 


Guy Gavriel Kay's Under Heaven looks intriguing from just its blurb. This would be a new author for me, will have to investigate further before embarking on his writings. But thanks for the heads-up! 

[PatH]

I haven't read it, but people who have like it.

[Frybabe]

I read Guy Gavriel Kay's Ysabel . It's not my usual kind of read, but it was good, and I had a lot of fun looking up places on the net and following the action around Aix-en-Provence.

On looking up Under Heaven, I discovered that Mr. Kay has been a very busy writer, that he writes poetry as well, and that he is Canadian (I thought he was French). His Sarantine Mosaic, about an alternate Byzantine like empire, series looks very interesting as do several others.

Here's something interesting, hmmmmmm! Amazon took a Wikipedia page and made it "shopping enabled".  I hadn't noticed this feature before.  http://www.amazon.com/wiki/Guy_Gavriel_Kay/ref=ntt_at_bio_wiki

[PatH]

That's kind of sinister.  You have to be careful to get the description of the book instead of an Amazon page.

I see that Kay got his start helping Christopher Tolkien edit his father's unpublished works.

[Frybabe]

I know PatH. Amazon is getting it's tentacles everywhere. Not that I'm complaining, but it is kind of spooky.  I saw a link at the top of the Amazon page for the book and clicked. That is what I got, but if you just go through Wikipedia you don't get the enhanced version. I would think that they had to have contributed to Wikipedia to be able to do that. I would think, but who knows.

[PatH]

That makes it better, if you have to go through Amazon to get it that way.  Surely they paid for the privilege.  Still spooky, though.

[marcie]

I really like William Gibson's work. When I first read one of his books, I was blown away with his amazing, detailed vision of the future and use of language.  I enjoyed The Difference Engine too, by Gibson and Bruce Sterling. I like Sterlings books too.

In relation to The Difference Engine, I've read a biography, "Ada Lovelace: Enchantress of Numbers," by Betty Toole. Wikipedia says Lovelace was "an English mathematician and writer chiefly known for her work on Charles Babbage's early mechanical general-purpose computer, the Analytical Engine. Her notes on the engine include what is recognized as the first algorithm intended to be processed by a machine. Because of this, she is often considered the world's first computer programmer."

[marcie]

I would have thought that Amazon would pay wikipedia but it seems they do not. See the article at http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3-20024297-36.html

[PatH]

Marcie, if The Difference Engine has Lady Lovelace in it, I've got to read it.

I heard Gibson talk at Politics and Prose a year or two ago.  In addition to the new book, subject of his talk, I got him to sign my battered paperback of Neuromancer.  He seems to move on when he's finished with a style, not live in his past achievements.

[Frybabe]

I thought I had more Gibson's than I do. My TBR has Spook Country and Virtual Lights. My "get my hands on list" are Pattern Recognition and Zero History. Neuromancer sure looks twisty and complicated from the description. I'm not sure why I didn't include that on my list except that I don't care to read about druggies.

I am in the library cue for Greg Bear's Halo: Silentium which was release a few weeks ago. It is the last of the Forerunner Halo series. It should become available about the middle of the month.

[PatH]

Pattern Recognition, Spook Country, and Zero History Kind of go together, and I suspect should be read in order.  I haven't read them yet.

Neuromancer was the beginning of cyberpunk.  It's about cyberspace, which Gibson visualized very early in the game.  It seemed stunning when it came out, but I suspect it might be a bit old-hat now.  I should reread it and see, though I gave my copy to my daughter.

[Frybabe]

The summary of Neuromancer reminded me of Tron (which came out in 1976, I think), and The Matrix. All three involved people getting sucked into a network, or at least, their consciousnesses.

[Scottieluvr]

Here's something interesting, hmmmmmm! Amazon took a Wikipedia page and made it "shopping enabled".  I hadn't noticed this feature before.  http://www.amazon.com/wiki/Guy_Gavriel_Kay/ref=ntt_at_bio_wiki

Yes, I find Amazon only equal to dandelions...populates over large areas rather quickly.

[JoanK]

MARCIE: I don't usually read Sci-Fi, but I'm a big fan of Lady Lovelace (to the extent that I once got hold of a copy of her computer program and tried to "debug" it. She never had a chance, since Babbage  was never able to finish building his machine).

I have read a biography of her, but not that one. Is it good?

[marcie]

JoanK, I read "Ada: Enchantress of Numbers" quite a while ago but I remember it favorably. I haven't read another bio of Lovelace so don't have something else to which to compare it. It's told mostly through Lovelace's letters. The author is a devoted scholar of Lovelace and you can tell she is enchanted with her but it seems appropriate that she is. Lovelace was a remarkable woman.

The Difference Engine book is an "alternate history" novel so it isn't fully "fact" based.

[JoanK]

Thanks. I got samples of both on my kindle. They're expensive, so will probably only buy one: we'll see which one.

As a woman in mathematics, I'm interested in Lovelace's struggles to learn mathematics. No one would teach her: women weren't supposed to be able to learn math. So she "apprenticed" herself to Babbage, as a way to learn.

Throughout history, there have been people who wanted learning so bad, they would find a way to learn under whatever the odds. I feel a kinship with all of them.

[marcie]

JoanK, I've never shopped at this site but they have 50% off Kindle prices:

http://www.shopoin.info/the-difference-engine-p-18598.html

[Frybabe]

I am doing a check on this Shopoin.com outfit. So far, I can say be careful; it may not be legit. There is a thread on the Amazon Direct Publishing site where some of the self published authors are pretty upset about the site selling their books without authorization and without paying royalties.

[Frybabe]

There is not much information about the Shopoin site on the web. It is registered (about three years ago) with GoDaddy. The registrant is "cheng da" of Hong Kong.

[JoanK]

Oh oh! I bookmarked it, but maybe I'd better stay away!

[Frybabe]

I suspect they are pirating Kindle e-books. It kind of smells fishy that they are discounting Kindle e-books and that some of the Direct Publishing authors are ticked about their books showing up on the site. I send Amazon a query about the site even though I assume that their authors have already done so. I just want to make sure I am not cautioning people away from the site if they are legit. Will let you know if I get a response.

[marcie]

THanks for checking out that shopoin site for possible issues.

[Steph]

Since Kindle is a proprietary name, they should not be trying to sell Kindle books..

[JoanK]

I also worry: if they are selling books illegally, what illegal things will they do with my information?

[Steph]

There is that.. They might be doing things to get information..You don't want anything to get pirated.

[Steph]

New author for me..  Ben Aaronovitch.. and the book is Whispers Underground..Seemes to be the second in a series.. Peter Grant is the narrator in a science fiction, fantasy,mystery..What fun. We are in London, sort of, that is and it is somewhat later than now.. I am halfway through and laugh and marvel at incorporating Magic and making it scientific.. I mourn for Babi..She and I loved the same type of fantasy and she would have loved it.

[JoanK]

This isn't JoanK, it's PatH.  I'm visiting Joan, and using her computer.  Steph, tell us more about Whispers Underground when you finish.  It sounds like fun.  I'm with you about Babi.  She used to post first thing in the morning, and I still find myself looking out for her posts when I sign in.

Since I had 6 days here with Joan, I ordered The Difference Engine to come here, so Joan could have a crack at it.  Mostly, she doesn't like sci-fi (her one flaw) but since she cares about the subject, she might like this one.  At the same time I got The Anubis Gate for me, but it's going to have to wait its turn.

[Scottieluvr]

This isn't JoanK, it's PatH.  I'm visiting Joan, and using her computer.  […] Since I had 6 days here with Joan, I ordered The Difference Engine to come here, so Joan could have a crack at it.  […]

I’ll join Joan in her reading experience.  I asked hubby to stop by the library, before coming home tonight, to pick up a copy of “The Difference Engine”. I’ve read very mixed reviews about this book… so Joan if it’s a torturous experience you didn’t go through it alone. 

[JoanK]

(It's Joan this time) It is a bit. I'm 200 pages in and still haven't figured out what the book is about. See what you think.

The preface talks about steam punk parties with steam punk bands and all kinds of gadgets on display. (costumes, of course!) Do you know about that?

[Steph]

Whispers is fun. The hero is a combination magician(learning) and a detective and they have a police force that has both.. He is looking for a murderer.. ventures down in the subway system in London and discovers.. well that is the point. A whole forgotten villager of pottery andpigs and a whole other world.. Almost done and will definitely look for the first two in the series. His partner lost her face and wears a mask..

[Scottieluvr]

(It's Joan this time) It is a bit. I'm 200 pages in and still haven't figured out what the book is about. See what you think. The preface talks about steam punk parties with steam punk bands and all kinds of gadgets on display. (costumes, of course!) Do you know about that?

My joining your misery is delayed. I have to buy a used copy since my local library does not carry it; as falsely stated in their online database.    So I must wait for my used book to arrive...

Steampunk is all about partying, gadgets and costuming... equal to punk-rockers or goths, even anime-devotees have bands, parties, and the like. To me it gives adult permission to react their childhood.  And I'm all for revisiting those fun filled moments too.

When this book was made aware to me, I first surfed for reviews of the book. It’s clear to me that the book is not an enjoyable read for most of the population – not a good thing in my “book”.    But I love a good challenge.  In the meantime I listed some review links below, which maybe support your frustrations with the material.

A review of The Difference Engine: http://steampunkscholar.blogspot.com/2009/08/difference-engine-by-william-gibson-and.html

Good Reads Reviews; some where perceptive and enlightening: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/337116.The_Difference_Engine

More reviews: http://www.sfsite.com/08a/dif62.htm (read the first few paragraphs)

An Ideological Review: http://capitalismisover.com/ideological-review-of-the-difference-engine/

Another, and last review:http://www.techsoc.com/diffeng.htm

Here’s a dictionary too, “The Difference Dictionary”: http://www.sff.net/people/gunn/dd/

[JoanK]

(Joan again). Thanks for the reviews, I'll jump into them in a minute.

After 300 pages, I've finally figured out my problem. I'm used to reading mysteries, which are strongly plot-driven. In the Difference Engine, the plot makes little sense, and is forgotten about much of the time. The strength is in the description of the alternate universe he has created.

Now that I realize this, I can stop fussing about why the characters are running around to no purpose, and enjoy the technological and social imagination and descriptive writing which are strong. 

[Steph]

I love plots, so don't think I will try the book.. I am not into costumes, and reenactments, so steam punk sounds like a not for me sort of read.

[Scottieluvr]

(Joan again). Thanks for the reviews, I'll jump into them in a minute.

After 300 pages, I've finally figured out my problem. I'm used to reading mysteries, which are strongly plot-driven. In the Difference Engine, the plot makes little sense, and is forgotten about much of the time. The strength is in the description of the alternate universe he has created.

Now that I realize this, I can stop fussing about why the characters are running around to no purpose, and enjoy the technological and social imagination and descriptive writing which are strong. 

Once I possess and read this book, I'll help continue this discussion. But your observations about the story appear "spot-on" with others who reviewed it.

[Steph]

mark

[Frybabe]

Browsing around Feedbooks, I found this:
http://www.feedbooks.com/book/6719/sultana-s-dream

It says it is one of the earliest examples of feminist science fiction (subgenre: alternative history).  The author is Indian, a Muslim, a feminist, written way back in 1905.

[Scottieluvr]

Browsing around Feedbooks, I found this:
http://www.feedbooks.com/book/6719/sultana-s-dream

It says it is one of the earliest examples of feminist science fiction (subgenre: alternative history).  The author is Indian, a Muslim, a feminist, written way back in 1905.

WOW!  My kind of alternative history for sure!    Thank you for the link.