Non-Fiction

[Babi]

 

TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK

What are you reading?  Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?

Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it. 

Let's talk books!

Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold

 I think one of the major national characteristics of the Germans was always
a high respect for authority and an early instilled habit of obedience.   This did
make them vulnerable to leaders such as Hitler, I believe.  He used that
authority, as BELLEMERE says, to instill fear while at the same time appealing
to their national pride and sense of injury from the aftermath of WWI.  I
believe it took a while for the general public to realize what was happening, and by then it was far too late.

[JoanK]

Bellemere: The Swerve sounds absolutely fascinating!

[JoanK]

I got the swerve on kindle, and it is fascinating. His thesis sounded fishy to me (that finding this old Roman manuscript turned renaissance thought in a new direction), and reading the reviews of the book, I was not surprised that scholarly reviews do not agree with him, or think he is really exaggerating. But the book goes over so many topics that I find interesting, from how papyrus is made to why the monks kept these old manuscripts to .... (and that's just at the beginning of the book).

I hope as the book goes on that he quotes more of the manuscript. Part of the scholarly hoo-hah seems to be based on whether you like the opinions expressed therein.

The

[Babi]

 "Swerve" does sound interesting.  Considering the present budget cuts, tho',
I doubt very much that my library will pick up a book that probably would not
have a very wide public appeal. The local college might, but they don't allow
the public to use their books.

[bellemere]

Joan K., the philosophy of Epicurus is made easily understandable by Alan de Botton, the English writer in "Consolations of Philosophy".  It's a little paperback that also discusses other schools, each exemplified by a person in history.  For example, Stoicism is portrayed in the life and deathe of Seneca. 
Philosophy is interesting to me, except through the primary sources.  I need an interpreter, and deBotton is the best vi have found.
Much of the Swerve is speculation about the real discovery of the poem of lucretius, but even the extrapolations and digressions are made interesting by the author.  Can understand the negativism in some of the reviews; Academics thrive on picking at one another.

[JoanK]

Exactly, and "Swerve" steps on both academic toes and religious toes.

I'm usually on the side of not speculating too far. But in this case, I'm interested in what he has to say about the history of books and can take his thesis with a large grain of salt.

[Babi]

 One of the best things about maturity, I think, JOANK, is we are able to bring
a questioning, if not critical, mind to what we read.  It is so easy for a young
person to be influenced by another's viewpoint, without having the experience or having developed the judgment to realize the writer/speaker could be wrong.

[mabel1015j]

I'm getting ready to read "The Wamrth of Other Suns", the story of the Black migration from the South to the north in the 20th century. I didn't realize it was such a big book when i heard about it. I will have to read it while sittong in my lounge chair or i'll aggravate my trigger thumb. Has anybody read it?

Jean

[maryz]

Haven't read that book, jean, but that's the kind of book I'd read on my Kindle.  And that's exactly why I got a Kindle in the first place - I was having trouble holding any book, even paperbacks.

[Frybabe]

I just finished watching a two hour presentation about Oliver Cromwell and his Irish campaign. According to the narrator it set the stage for so much of what came afterward, including the consolidation of Ireland, Scotland and England into the United Kingdom which in turn generated enough clout to become the mighty British Empire. There were also comments about his actions influencing the colonies here and the wording in the Declaration of Independence. What I am most interested in is the comment that he trained what became known as "the new model army". I'd like to find out what made it new and modern. The way it was trained, and or paid for? New innovations in weapons technology? Anyhow, I am off to find a book about Cromwell. Most I ever know about him before was that he and the King had a major disagreement. The King lost - at least until Cromwell died. The program did not paint him as quite the ogre that I remember him as.

[Frybabe]

Aha, I found several promising book on Oliver Cromwell, and I also believe I may have him and Thomas Cromwell muddled. I hope to rectify that situation. Teddy Roosevelt wrote a book on Cromwell which made comparisons to Cromwell's campaigns and the American Revolution and Civil War. There is actually one devoted to his "new model army", one devoted to his campaign at Dunbar, and several biographies.

[rosemarykaye]

Frybabe - I am woefully ignorant about all of this, but is that the Dunbar that is near here (on the coast east of North Berwick?)  I have been there a couple of times for shopping, but needless to say I haven't a clue about the history.  There is an amazing castle on the coast between here and Dunbar; Tantallon:

http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/propertyresults/propertyoverview.htm?PropID=pl_284&PropName=Tantallon%20Castle

Rosemary

[Babi]

 What a magnificent location!  I can see how such a stronghold could withstand three sieges.  And such a wild and lovely landscape.  I do wonder
what it's like when the flowers are blooming.

[Frybabe]

Yes, indeed it is Rosemarykaye. Charles II cut Cromwell's Irish campaign short and sent him to Scotland to put down the growing rebellion there precipitated by the execution of Charles I. http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk/military/1650-dunbar.htm
Oliver Cromwell: http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk/biog/oliver-cromwell.htm Cromwell's son-in-law, Henry Ireton, was given command in Ireland to finish the Irish campaign when he left.

[rosemarykaye]

Thanks Frybabe - when it gets a bit warmer I will go and have a look around.

Babi - the road follows the coastline more or less all the way from North Berwick to Dunbar - it is very dramatic, and in summer very beautiful.  in the winter is it wild, and I would not choose to drive it in gales or blizzards (there are alternative, longer, routes inland).

[roshanarose]

How beautiful that castle is!  Until the introduction of guns it was virtually impregnable according to the accompanying notes.  What concerns me about the castle and its grounds are what happens to a wee bonnie laddie when he has had a tad too many wee drams.  That is a mighty big drop.  I would love to visit.  

People all want to visit Australia, but my country has no history compared to Europe.  Well, of course it has history, but nothing like castles and moats etc., and I guess I have had my share of inspecting middens and wall art.  Unfortunately one has to travel a very long way to see the Red Centre as they call it.  Reading "The Maid" has given me itchy feet to visit Europe, esp Britain, France and Greece.  Possibly Etruria as well.  But these are only dreams.  Suburbia is starting to give me the ......... yet again!  If Gum were here she would jump upon me from a great height - sorry Gum.  Love and miss you babe.

[JoanK]

" Suburbia is starting to give me the ......... yet again!"

I have this theory that people are, by nature, either city people, country people, or suburbs people. If you take them out of whichever environment is natural to them, they are unhappy.

I shamefacedly admit, I'm a suburbs person: loving both access to (tamed) nature and to the cultural resources that a city provides. I know, I know, it's bland, and all the houses look alike. But when I lived in New York, I wasn't able to manage to take advantage of all the cultural things that were going on: I just found it noisy, dirty, and crowded: I missed trees and birds. Washington, D.C. was better: they have managed to bring nature into the city with trees planted on every street, and a woods running through the middle of town. I've never lived in the country.

[roshanarose]

I am a city, but mainly country person.  Ideally I would love a view of the sea - I am not asking too much, am I?

[Babi]

 I'm fairly easy to please.  So long as I have trees around, and a library within reach,..I'm happy.
I'm afraid one tree per block would not be enough, tho', so I'm pretty sure I would not like city
living.  We did live for a short while in a city apartment, but that was pre-kids and not really
a memorable time.

[rosemarykaye]

I grew up in the London suburbs but would not like to go back.  I lived in central Cambridge for some years and loved it, but it is quite a compact city.  We lived in a remote part of Aberdeenshire when my children were small - I loved the countryside and the wildlife, but not the driving in snow - that was my biggest bugbear.  For the past ten years we have lived in central Aberdeen - I liked the handiness of everything, being able to walk to the library, pool, shops, etc - but what I didn't like was looking out of my bedroom window straight onto another house.  Now I am living in a very small village but in a new house.  I really love having the countryside all around me, but I would like it better if the village had just one shop.  We do however have the much prized railway station (tiny), so I do have a means of transport other than the car.  I love the quietness, and like the village most in the daytime during the week, when there are fewer of us here and it is very peaceful.  I also love the proximity of the beaches.

Roshanarose, I have always thought I would love to have a sea view, but with the kind of storms we have been having recently, I am not sure that I would feel very safe right on the water's edge - we have a lot of coastal erosion in some areas of the UK, and houses have literally fallen into the sea in some parts of Norfolk (not with the people in them I'm glad to say).  My ideal would be the cottage that the girls and I have sometimes stayed in for holidays at Crail (which is just across the Firth from here, on the coast of Fife) - it is not right on the sea front, but it has been refurbished so that the sitting room and kitchen are upstairs, and from the sitting room windows you look straight out across the water to the Isle of May.  The house has thick stone walls and is so cosy to be inside.  It also has a tiny terrace garden, which is rare in these Fife fishing villages - the houses are so squeezed in that there is little space for much else.

My parents-in-law bought their house in Grange-Over-Sands just for the panoramic views of Morecambe Bay - it is spectacular, but at the price of being at the top of a very steep hill and at least a mile outside the town - easily walkable for me but I don't think they have ever walked it since they retired - neither of them is very mobile.  I really don't think they will be driving for much longer, and when that day comes their house will be totally impractical.  It's kind of depressing to have to think about things like accessibility, but I suppose it comes to us all 

Rosemary

[JoanK]

I don't have a sea view, but have always everyplace I lived had a distance view: currently of some trees. And I am a ten minute drive to a park with a spectacular sea view (Point Vicente): I try to go almost every week. Cliffs, a lighthouse, islands, and it's a viewing point for migrating whales. They have a path with memorial stones: I have one for my husband there, and go, sit, talk to him and look at the view.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/point-vicente-interpretive-center-california-ca389.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.planetware.com/picture/california-point-vicente-interpretive-center-us-ca389.htm&h=326&w=500&sz=253&tbnid=MZKriR5Tt8kygM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=138&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpoint%2BVicente%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=point+Vicente&docid=OAfRdgCujvZmKM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hc78TtvGN_HWiAL7xPmODQ&ved=0CGcQ9QEwBg&dur=468

[FlaJean]

Joan, that is certainly a beautiful view.  We have lots of trees in our town.  Every year the city wins an award for their trees, but I've never lived in a place that had a really good long distance view.

[roshanarose]

Rosemary - We have our share of beach erosion here as well.  It must be terrible for those people who are living in their houses to see them being swallowed up by the sea.  Actually, I want the view of the sea from up high, but you make some good points about accessibility.  I had to move out of my lovely apartment because after I shattered my ankle I was unble to climb all the steps to the third floor. From the apartment I had a beautiful view of the lights of the city and beyond.  After carrying bags of groceries up all those stairs I felt as though I was wearing out and was in constant pain.  The fact that the management increased the body corporate costs on apparent whim didn't help either.  So my ideal place then had to be just one step up from the ground which I have now.  I miss my apartment a lot though and my two close friends who were less than 2kms away.  It is so true that you can't have everything - and so I shall stop grumbling.

[Frybabe]

I watched Stossel tonight. He had John Blundell on discussing some of the women in his book, Ladies for Liberty: Women Who Made a Difference in American History. The title is suspiciously close to one Cokie Roberts wrote. Some of the names are just familiar, some are well known, and some I don't know at all. The B&N listing includes the table of contents so I am providing the link for anyone interested. Scroll down to Table of Contents and click on it to see. Also, B&N has it for the Nook, while Amazon hasn't put in on Kindle yet. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ladies-for-liberty-john-blundell/1100395770

[Babi]

 Checked out the Table of Contents as you suggested, FRYBABE.  Some of
the names are wholly unfamiliar, others I at least know who they are.  I had
not thought of Laura Ingalls Wilder being as being one who 'made a difference
in history', tho' I suppose she did record much of early pioneer and prairie
settlement.  He  also listed a businesswoman, which made me curious as to
what sort of business she might have had that contributed  to a change in
our history. 
  Don't think I'll be inspired to send that much money to explore his choices,
but I'd be curious to know what others who might read it learn from it.

[Frybabe]

Babi, Madame Walker became the first woman millionaire. A black, she started a black cosmetic line. I remember seeing something about her years ago, I think, in connection with an article or program on the founder of Ebony magazine, or on black entrepreneurs in general. Like I said, years ago so it's a bit fuzzy. I hadn't remembered her name, but I remember her accomplishment. Like you, I am totally unaware of some of the women profiled. The book title may be something of a misnomer, I think. Part of the Amazon book description reads: "With this collection of biographies, the author seeks to inform and inspire readers. We read so much about the Founding Fathers, but far less material has been made available to introduce the ladies, smart and strong in their own right, who have helped to form the political as well as the social universe that we are proud to call America."

I may see if I can get this at the library. But, like you, I am not so sure I want to pay money for it just now. If anyone has read it, I'd like an opinion.

[mabel1015j]

As a student of women's history, i knew only about 60 per cent of the women in his book. Upon doing some more research, i see that the author has ties to the Heritage Foundation and that sev'l of the women are conservative. That's fine w/ me, i am always happy to learn about more women in our history. I also noticed that many of them were individuals who had singular succeses. We tend to know of women who were a part of a bigger movement and therefore made it into news stories. The book should be an interesting read.

Jean

[Babi]

Oh, yes, thank you, FRYBABE.  I remember reading something about the first
woman millionaire, and that she was African/American. As you say, it does
seem more about prominent woman in our history, rather than women who made a difference in history.

[Frybabe]

I ran across this book while checking new ebook offerings on Manybooks, Nurse and Spy in the Union Army: The Adventures and Experiences of a Woman in Hospitals, Camps, and Battle-Fields by Sara Emma Edmunds. I am not likely to be interested enough in the Civil War at present to read it, but maybe one of you would like to.

 http://www.manybooks.net/titles/edmonds3849738497-8.html

[Emily]

Thanks Frybabe for the Civil war story. I am reading diaries, memoirs, letters, etc. from that era as I find them. I will download this and read it later.

I have read all the memoirs in my library, but can download from our regional libraries so I have a long list. I am at present re-reading the Sam Watkins memior. He was a private in the Confederate army from Columbia, Tennessee. If any watched Ken Burns documentary on the Civil war, the name will be familiar as he was quoted often.

This area is teeming with history and my nine year old grandson is a willing pupil. I read to him each week from a memoir, or the Tennessee history for kids lesson. He reads but prefers me to read the story and then we discuss. We also take trips to visit the sights we are discussing. He stumps me with questions about how to build a raft to cross the river. He isn't satisfied with my answer, 'to lash logs together' and get some long poles to push off and across.

We are currently studying the 'first settlers' to come to this area, and how they survived in the wilderness, from the written accounts of those who made the trek.

It is important (to me) to know ones own history and the history of where they live.

Emily

[Babi]

 I've always enjoyed history, EMILY, and a first-person account can be the
best.  Unless, of course, the person has no aptitude whatever for writing an
interesting journal.  I have come across some that seemed filled with trivial
data like the miles traveled that day.  I can see why the individual might want
to keep track of progress in new territory; I just couldn't see why anyone
else would be interested.

[maryz]

Emily, as I remember, you live in Tennessee, but I've forgotten where.    I'm in Chattanooga, and jean (mable) is in upper East TN.  We lived in Sumner County for 24 years before moving to Chattanooga - lots of great history there.

[JoanK]

Emily: "It is important (to me) to know ones own history and the history of where they live."

I agree. one of the first things I did, moving to a new place was borrow a local history from the library. Even though I didn't finish it (unfortunately, not well written), it's neat to know, for example, where the local place names came from, and some of the old scandals, too.

[Babi]

 Some of the names speak for themselves, of course.  My little town of Deer
Park was once just that, a deer park.   And the nearby Strawberry Road ran
through fields of strawberries.  They still hold an annual strawberry festival.
 And of course, standing tall just across the river is the San Jacinto Monument.
Those closing battles between the Texans and Santa Ana took place just 'down the road a bit'. 

[mabel1015j]

Naaw Mary, i'm in South Jersey

[maryz]

Oops, sorry jean.    We'd love to have you down here anytime, though. 

[JoanK]

My favorite local story was of the local bar that straddled the line between my town (Torrance, CA) and the next one (Redondo Beach). One of the towns had ordinance that called for an earlier colosing time than the other, so at that time, the bartender would ring a bell and everyone would move to the other end of the room.

Now, there is  just a beach park on that spot.

[Ella Gibbons]

Oh, I've read all your posts on this page, and it gives me much to think about! 

Meanwhile, I just came here to talk/type about a couple of books I am in the process of reading. (actually more than a couple, but I must restrain myself).  Which one to read first?  I've started this one and it would be a good discussion, I think.  My father fought in this war, perhaps your father or grandfather did lilkewise"

TO END ALL WARS: A story of Loyalty and Rebellion, 1914-1918 by Adam Hochschild.

"Today, hundreds of military cemeteries spread across the fields of northern France and Belgium contain the bodies of millions of men who died in the war to end all wars.  Can we ever avoid repeating history?" - from the cover

Reads very well.

And then a little book I shall finish tonight on my bedside table: THE GRACE OF SILENCE: A Family Memoir by Michele Norris, who is the Co-Host of NPR's All Things Considered.  Her grandmother traveled dressed as Aunt Jemima throughout the midwest for Quaker Oats.  The corporation finds itself in a delicate position today "holding on to a valluable trademark widely recognized but historically offensive."

p.s.  I have memoed (sp?) a couple mentioned here for the future.

[Ella Gibbons]

Check out the photos and interview on this page re:  TO END ALL WARS:

http://www.amazon.com/End-All-Wars-Rebellion-1914-1918/dp/0618758283/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326314221&sr=1-1

[Ella Gibbons]

GOODNESS!  Did I stop all discussion, please excuse and carry on.