Author Topic: The Library  (Read 2083700 times)

bellamarie

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15320 on: June 18, 2015, 10:23:56 AM »

The Library
Our library cafe is open 24/7, the welcome mat is always out.
Do come in from daily chores and spend some time with us.

We look forward to hearing from you, about you and the books you are enjoying (or not).


Let the book talk begin here!



I'm with you Ginny.  I turn the tv off and just browse the news stations online.  I can watch an interview in seconds and not have to listen to the rhetoric leading up to, and after the few second video.  I generally wake up and listen to the news while I eat breakfast.  I then turn my tv off and do not even turn it back on until after dinnertime.  Our world has truly gone off kilter.  The answer to every solution today seems to just take a gun and shoot randomly at innocent people.  The media gives these deranged people way too much coverage and attention.  This shooter in Charleston is said to have allowed a few people at this Bible study to live, so they could tell his story.  Was this a hate crime, racially motivated, or anti religious?  Does it even matter?  It appears he was seeking attention by saying he wanted some to be able to tell what happened.  He is probably sitting back somewhere hidden with a tv, watching his day of fame being plastered on every news station 24/7.  

MaryPage,  I just don't watch tv, so I do not have to listen to how many have now thrown their hats in the ring to run for president, and all the speculation and poll results.  Just narrow it down to one per party, and be done with it.  I said I am going to get some popcorn and peanuts and watch the circus, when these debates begin. These politicians are like piranhas.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

CallieOK

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15321 on: June 18, 2015, 10:50:06 AM »
How refreshing to find so many people who feel the way I do about the media, the presidential elections, the non-stop "news" etc. etc. ad nauseum.

I hate becoming cynical, skeptical and negative about so many issues.  OTOH, perpetual "Pollyannas" are annoying, too.

Maybe I'll just withdraw and become a hermit (hermitess?  mustn't be gender-specific, y'know, lest I "offend" somebody - another word I wish would be erased from usage, along with "diet and exercise" and "for the children")

Grumble, grumble   >:(

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15322 on: June 18, 2015, 10:52:12 AM »
I love it!  And you, Callie!

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15323 on: June 18, 2015, 11:33:39 AM »
And every day, a new "no-no" - - no salt, no sugar, no transfats. Now no energy drinks.  I forget what else is on the bad list, because I can't keep up with the speed at which they tell us something else must be eliminated from our diets.  and yet, they want our doctors to prescribe medications for us, whose side effects are more likely to kill us or permanently cause other bodily damage than the disease or illness they are supposed to treat. 

Back to the previous "media bash", I hate that the local news stations see fit to go to the jailhouse and interview with cameras, these thugs and jailbirds, be they murderers, pedophiles, etc.  Just giving them their (instead of 15 minutes) 60 seconds of fame.  Boy, we have a lot to complain about don't we?
And then...the national newsies telling us every single step our government is taking  or planning to take in troop deployment, etc.  Just do what needs to be done, and surprise the enemy instead of having them lying in wait for us.
I still hark back to the WWII sayings "Loose Lips Sink Ships". If media thinks we have such a "right to know", tell us after we've accomplished what we're sent for!
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15324 on: June 18, 2015, 12:40:25 PM »
In those days a lot of the world roving reporters knew just one whole heck of a lot that they had the good sense NOT to send in their dispatches.  They used their brains to figure out what the moral difference was between carefully withholding information from the public that would harm the safety of the nation and attempting to make their own name world known with some journalistic coup.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15325 on: June 18, 2015, 03:33:41 PM »
Well they caught him - a young white kid looking younger and more innocent to life than all the others and he kills 9 people - Something is very wrong - I know we get more news and it is usually salacious like backfence gossiping but this teenage rampage of mass murder, killing innocents has been going on for nearly 20 years - no intelligent explanation other than the suggestion it is a copycat crime - there has to be something more to it or we could say that about all crime - how do so many young white boys act out - is it an act of rage - are they going through some kind of psychotic break down - if so what is it - this is ridiculous.  

As to some of the other absent news I think world and political news must fit the narrative of how the wealthy, who are benefiting from influencing how we, the masses lean find they are now having to deal with folks in the world who they do not understand and who are playing them.

I have been learning so much from the papers written by the students who are friends of my grands and are involved in some kind of International Studies - two of my grands spent a semester in Norway - one studying International Marketing in Buskerud and Vestfold University College - then another grand in China since February studying International Peace and War and China's relationships in Africa at a University in Beijing - an aside he goes on to hike in Tibet for two weeks then to an internship in Singapore - one of his friends spent the last semester in Morocco with her Middle Eastern studies and is now in Australia flying jets with the Air Force as a student pilot - another back from studying this last year in Brazil who attends Brown and two more back from a year studying in Scotland - all of them studying International Relations.

Anyhow I learned from them that we have a policy we never hear about - called The Washington Consensus "which contains 10 concrete principles:  (1) Fiscal Discipline; (2) Restructuring Public/Social Expenditure Priorities; (3) Tax Reform; (4) Liberalizing Interest Rates; (5) Competitive Exchange Rates; (6) Trade Liberalization; (7) Liberalization of Inward Foreign Direct Investment; (8) Privatization; (9) Deregulation; and, (10) Property Rights. Lastly, Washington advocated applying these principles all at once, in other words by “Shock Therapy.”  These principles, combined with enforcement by the IMF and World Bank in the form of Structural Adjustment (later called Poverty Reduction Strategy Papers), effectively made up an iron-locked structure for economic development and reform. To gain access to loans and aid from the critical international financial institutions, developing nations had little choice but to enroll in Structural Adjustment Policies, which secured their position on the new Bretton Woods track for development."

So where ever there is a catastrophe in the world we go in and use our resources to make change - much as we did after the flooding in New Orleans that closed down never to open again many of the public schools in favor of charter schools and not rebuilding low income housing etc. etc.

And so of course the news is about what catastrophe is happening - it is the signal for big money to align themselves with the Washington Consensus and make more bucks - Not easy stuff for most of us to digest with our morning coffee just as the entire banking debacle is not easy to understand with hours of concentration - even most Congressmen are frozen because they do not understand it - and so it is easier to treat the tug of war between ideas in Congress as if we watching a football game and to let the real news go by since like the wealthy in California do not think they should abide by water usage rules they do think they are above the masses and we just do not need to know since we cannot afford to do anything about what is going on.

To be engaged today and have any input takes so much study and understanding because those shaping world events are professionals and we just cannot stop our lives to match them in understanding alternatives - they are operating I dare say beyond the capacity of most journalists to understand except some small piece of it that a journalist can not only track down what is news worthy but, they too must study to understand what is happening much less, explain years of study in one column that will also grab our attention.

What I know is I am so thankful that greater and greater numbers of high school graduates are going on to college - they sure are making it difficult for them and then you have to ask - why - why the outrageous expense - is that their protection so that there will be few of us who really understand what the professionals are doing by having fewer collage graduates with the capacity to dope out what they are doing - or is it a system that even they cannot alter  - or is it really simply greed which makes for an easy to understand news heading?  

Ok my rant for the day - but like all of you - the news only presents confusion with all the horrors and yet, not paying attention is the way we have little to no affect on our understanding the hows and whys of those we hire or elect to represent us thinking they will protect us.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15326 on: June 18, 2015, 04:09:02 PM »
Well, Barb. You lost me there. But I am looking up the Washington Consensus. I wanted to see if it was still in place. According to this description, it is in the process of being replaced after being in place since 1990. Now I have to find what they want to replace it with.  http://www.who.int/trade/glossary/story094/en/ The Bretton Woods system, which came into existence during WWII, apparently was a predecessor. http://www.imf.org/external/about/histend.htm

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15327 on: June 18, 2015, 06:40:46 PM »
Yes, both the Washington Consensus that started as a model dealing with South American and the Bretton Woods System is different than the model used by Asian nations which includes the wealthy private investors in India, who use a business model so that their loans are not influencing national loyalties or national financial systems and are not dependent on the shock doctrine that is explained in the 2008 book by Naomi Klein and therefore, their influence is not dependent on an immediate catastrophe.

So far they have talked about going back to the Bretton Wood system however, current US International affairs is following the Washington Consensus - The Middle Eastern nations are also using a business model which is private wealth including the private wealth of the leaders of these nations, rather than the national treasuries, making business loans for profit - and to take this another step - look up the owners of the private for profit correctional centers in this country alone - most have an address in Florida but when you dig further you find the owners live in places like Turkey - and you learn they use their profits to influence Congress and State legislators to make more crimes jail offenses and to create more laws that when broken are punished with jail time.

I am seeing the connection between constant drama in the news without any real understanding shared by journalists of how this nation functions or exactly how we are influenced by those wealthy individuals and groups outside this nation who are taking advantage of our freedoms as the way to control this nation for their profit and who are not concerned with our social welfare.  

Yes, the fact that there are so few owners of our media is a concern but more - everything has become so beyond the average persons understanding of the issues we are being splintered and with each catastrophe more of the profiteers are taking advantage of the situation including our own government. It is easy to turn it off - and yes, I am often tempted - but then I think if I had cancer I would not ignore it and I would make every effort to understand the treatment as well as know alternative treatment to realize why the one chosen is the best. Well if we depend on the news or those who benefit from the drama featured or even depend on our Congressmen for understanding, who are influenced by the profiteers we may as well hand them this nation. If we think others will take on this task of protecting us so we do not have to understand what in so many cases is above our heads then we are no better than the co-dependent to a addictive personality supplying them with easy access to their drug or drink of choice.

I hate that we cannot talk about these things without it immediately becoming conversation repeating a right left - conservative liberal - viewpoint we read in the news and in articles written by those representing our affiliation to right left - conservative or liberal - but rather that we could read several authors on a subject and share what we learn - find out who benefits financially from these different issues that are made political because that is easy - it can be explained like a football game with winners and loosers.

No one or no organization is perfect so to have a loyalty to one does not mean we cannot look at how their decisions support profit or social justice. When I read our Constitution I see us as a nation concerned with social justice not profit - when the pursuit of happiness means making profit at the expense of others we are back to the profits based in nineteenth century farming in the south - then we had labor that was not educated and with little to no means to extricate themselves from their servitude - that concerns me and I become doubly anxious that we learn what is behind the news and who influences our system - using the usual axiom follow the gold - Our earnings are used if we just consider the issue of private jails - the bigger picture - there is no private - it takes our tax dollars to cover the expense of paying court personal and judges and the police and the jails that are temporary holding tanks till the prisoner is transfered to one of these private for profit correctional centers.

Here again we have a young man who has gone nuts and all we do is blame it on guns, attitudes towards blacks and or religion - the usual - I hoped we could have some real understanding - this is a crime that is repeated and repeated - and yes, my head goes on this long trail that I shared but it is so connected and I see how easy it is to turn it all off and that makes me want to sit down and cry - and maybe that is what helpless folks do but golly we should demand more and educate ourselves to understand more than is easily spoon fed to us.

I know I sound like I am going off and ranting to let loose - who knows maybe y'all are right - but does not anyone wonder about what is going on...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15328 on: June 19, 2015, 06:13:46 AM »
Barb, it all brings to mind the axiom, "Oh, what a tangled web we weave...".

Quote
I hate that we cannot talk about these things without it immediately becoming conversation repeating a right left - conservative liberal - viewpoint we read in the news and in articles written by those representing our affiliation to right left - conservative or liberal - but rather that we could read several authors on a subject and share what we learn - find out who benefits financially from these different issues that are made political because that is easy - it can be explained like a football game with winners and loosers.

I thought that is pretty much what we would do in our Political Processes forum, but it is rarely posted to. Not being a particularly political animal, I am at a loss as to what books are good for discussion, those that the author made an effort to stay unbiased. We can start, as a refresher, with the basic documents like the Magna Carta, the US Constitution (and or comparisons between ours and other country's constitutions), the Bill of Rights, etc. We were exposed to, in one degree or another, these documents in the lower grades. PA Civics went out the window here long ago (sad), and they seem to be disappearing some of the other traditional history classes as we speak. Is this because of the "teach to the test" mentality now?

In a nice gesture, a Lawyers association (didn't notice which) has sent our library a booklet for juniors explaining the Magna Carta and its history. Our library manager loves it, but is not sure the little booklet will hold up with use because it has a large foldout section which is perforated. Sadly, I am willing to bet it gets very little use.

Oh, just thought of another interesting process. How did the Civil Service System came about? I believe we can thank Chinese and, more particularly, Confucius for developing it such a system.

 Does anyone here understand the current push to Globalization both economically and politically? Do we know who the "players" are that are pushing for this?

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15329 on: June 19, 2015, 08:00:20 AM »
Ah, this explains the booklet; it is the 800th anniversary of the Magna Carta.
http://catoinstitute.tumblr.com/post/121601523136/celebrating-the-800th-anniversary-of-the-magna

Steph

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15330 on: June 19, 2015, 08:41:56 AM »
Oh my yes,, The Brits has lovely sstrict rules on running for things and money restrictions.How I wish we did. The amount of money collected is obscene.. and truly wrong. There are a few very rich people who are intent on changing the US to part of their kingdom.. I do so wish the supreme court would not allow this. I am quite sure that our forefathers did not mean for this..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15331 on: June 19, 2015, 10:04:48 AM »
And I am quite, quite, quite certain our forefathers did not mean for a rich oligarchy to run things behind the scenes in their very own way for the sole purpose of living lives of total luxury in which, in truth, they pay little or NO taxes and the burden of running the machinery of community services is all carried on the backs of the poor working classes.  Their total arrogance and lack of simple humanity has been a common denominator of their way of life for thousands of years, since long before our country was even discovered, yet their entrenched belief in a monetary system that works to their advantage blinds them to the truths of history, which are that if you ignore the misery of the masses long enough they will rise up and depose you.

There are a few good men & women and true in their income bracket, and these people bleed quite honestly for us, to little or no avail.  Take Warren Buffett:  he truly agonized because his secretary pays a higher percentage of her income in taxes, more than double in fact, than does he!

But nothing stops the very rich, because their money pays lobbyists who pay our elected officials.  Thus the owners of the plants that manufacture automatic killing rods will allow no law that prevents ANY person from enriching their profits by purchasing these rods and killing dozens of small children peacefully gathered in a supposedly safe environment in their public elementary school.  To them it is no loss at all, as long as their insatiable desires can keep being met.  We, the masses, are just so many gnats to be swatted away by their servants.

marjifay

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15332 on: June 19, 2015, 10:15:55 AM »
Wow, I sure don't understand what the "Washington Concensus" is or why I should be interested or care about it. It all sounds very difficult and actually boring to me.   Economics was not my best subject in college by a long shot. 

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

LarryHanna

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15333 on: June 19, 2015, 11:08:58 AM »
I don't understand how a news story can be "breaking news" and need an alert when it has been reported on for hours or days.  MaryPage, I agree with you about the national elections.  By the time the elections arrive you are sick and tired of all the candidates and truth and honesty doesn't seem to play a role in what the candidates say.  I suppose politics have always been this way as it is not a place for fragile people. 
LarryBIG BOX

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15334 on: June 19, 2015, 01:28:42 PM »
Color me one of the fragile people.

And I guess we are not wise to go to church or shopping or any place where groups of people gather until we can be reassured that everyone will be checked at the door to make sure they are carrying a loaded weapon.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/06/18/nra-board-member-blames-murdered-reverend-for-d/204057

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15335 on: June 19, 2015, 02:24:18 PM »
Problem for me is I did not know what the 'Washington Consensus' was all about and had no idea it was the basis for our foreign policy - I hate getting into the brew ha ha that happens in our political discussion since it is seldom about learning and more about reacting with a political viewpoint - and yesterday was one of those days when I was banging into walls I so miss my long time friends.

Charlotte and I had only this past winter completed our reading at our Wednesday night dinner Asia's Cauldron the South China Sea and the End of a Stable Pacific and we were about a quarter of a way into China's Second Continent when she had her fall and ultimately, less than a month later, her death followed two weeks later by my next oldest friend, who would meet us for lunch and talk about South American and what she learned from her connections to friends in both Argentina and Brazil - and then yesterday was the 10th uncelebrated Birthday since my son died, who we used to talk about how money worked in the world versus our labor and the European Union.  

By now it has been at least 10 years since publication about how the media was programing us rather than using the tactics some nations use to control information - and so sharing information and reading from various viewpoints became the way to learn about global trade and economics and how it affect us. For me, I do not think it is a selective determination to know how to read and do simple math and now how to utilize the basic technology we live with but it appears easy to allow ourselves to be influenced and use our vote to support the junk that is offered by a campaign PR and news pendents who are not teaching us about global relationships.  

As long as the media can slant stories that certain nations are the bad guy and others are the good guys without telling us the reality that they are all grey, including the USA and we take these slanted stories at their word that keeps this 'right left - conservative liberal' agenda alive resulting in most of us continuing to support issues and candidates based on what others program us to think, from the candidates to the political parties and those in our life who only want to share from a political point of view -

Some place in all of this I just know there is room for inquiry to learn for example, what is and how the IMF, the World Bank, the World Trade Centers are affecting our pocketbook and our grocery shopping - we read about the Greek Loan problem with the EU but with all the media coverage, I know I have no idea how it affects my pocketbook - I did not study economics and had no idea that Keynes was the leading influence to the Bratton Woods summit and that economic philosophy is how Wall Street depends on the government to cover their financial losses when their risks do not turn out successful. We all know how prices have been eating away at us since the banks failed and so it does affect us.

What we can do about it - I guess about the same thing we did when we decided to support Cancer research or wear a seat belt or join the concepts taught to us by Mother's against drunk driving etc etc etc - we saw the affect in our own life.

We are just entering the time for round the clock news promoting the next President - but we are not being informed about the real prize - I do not care if we lean Democrat or Republican, I'm looking for news that talks about the prize - from what I have learned so far there is millions to be made according to how this new president approaches the coming issue as South America is cajoled to look to the USA rather than China for aid - It seems the nations in South America were flush with Chinese investments that have now disappeared because of the slowed Chinese economy and the South American nations used their profits with no savings - there is a triangle that is not about political philosophy but simply about financial philosophy - do they turn again to us and renew the contracts that expects national compliance with our views in order to borrow or, do they wait it out, risking national unrest till either China or others who do not lend but, set up long term businesses buying and selling for their profit South America's national resources while leaving the South American nations allegiances and way of governing alone.

That is the kind of prize who ever becomes president of this nation will be influencing - how much do those we send to Congress even understand all of this and therefore, where do we want the power to lie - with Congress or the President - that is what we are looking at when we decide among the field of candidates for President - which of these candidates can influence those who control wealth and the leaders of other nations - the president has very little control over the domestic agenda but lots of free wheeling control over the global agenda and yet, to get out the vote all we hear is their views on the domestic agenda.

I am missing those in my life who took these issues to heart - we did not talk about our political view point being different from each other - we were anxious to examine how our views would affect or be affected by what we were learning - I guess we did not take ourselves or our party affiliations serious - we could set them aside and simply learn - I miss it - miss it - miss it -  
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15336 on: June 20, 2015, 09:11:00 AM »
I don't much care if we agree on any political statement, but I do harshly disagree with the number of conservative politicians, who flat out lie about economic issues. All the numbers support that a  more balanced economy works best for all. and I truly have very bad opinions of the many politicians ( male, mostly) tend to think they have the right to tell me what to do with my own body.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15337 on: June 20, 2015, 01:02:10 PM »
I am not at all fond of far right or far left wingers. They seem sooooo unbending in attitude. Compromise is not in their vocabulary.

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15338 on: June 20, 2015, 02:44:33 PM »
Have never previously heard of a left winger, but I love it!

I am now a far left Democrat, what we think of as the Progressive wing of the party.  The thing that feels really weird to me is having lived long enough to see the glass turned upside down, as it were, and the sand to start falling down from where it used to be.  In short, I was for simply decades, more than half of my life in fact, a member of the Progressive wing of the Republican party!  I haven't changed a bit, but the two parties have switched places dramatically.  I am pretty sure President Eisenhower would be a Democrat these days, were he here to take it all in.  I worked so hard for him I got bloody knuckles from knocking on doors with my bare fist.  True story.

Oh, and I am bullish on compromise.  In order to function well at all, all of our joint working endeavors require compromise  Any kind of relationship requires compromise.  At the crack of dawn of The United States of America, lines were drawn sharply between the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists, and they compromised like mad.

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15339 on: June 21, 2015, 09:59:25 AM »
I came in to say that I have finished the second book in the Wolf Hall series, Bring Up the Bodies,  and I'm glad I read it. I doubt I would have had it not been for the PBS series where I was also talking about a couple of things in it.

She's a good writer.   I can see why it won a Man Booker. I haven't read the first one yet, Wolf Hall, but had I not had the characters of the PBS film firmly in my mind I doubt I'd have tried it and I would have missed something. They are selling it at Hampton Court but that should not be taken as any admission of accuracy, they sell Lindsay Davis's books at Fishbourne Palace and she's a mystery writer. It's the settings  and both are known for a lot of research.


I'm not a fan of historical novels, say what one will, they make up a lot of stuff which then sticks in the reader's mind who feels he knows what really went on. At the end of the book she has a pretty big disclaimer about the trial, etc., and the lack of any written record but she's sure her version is accurate. OK   then. :)

But she's a wonderful writer. Seems to be a bit obsessed with the idea that Cromwell was requiting injuries  to Wolsey.  So you can read it as if it's Game of Thrones or Gormenghast and enjoy yourself.

I was a bit shocked at the coarseness of the language in the last quarter of the book, it's hard to believe a woman wrote this, but it's very atmospheric, I guess,  to the atmosphere she wishes to create.

At any rate, it's a very good read for the summer. I'd watch the reruns of Wolf Hall first, tho. There's a third sequel coming out both to the movie and the books, she's writing the third now.

Good read!


Steph

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15340 on: June 21, 2015, 10:31:47 AM »
Hmm, I struggled with the first one and did not finish.. but will give the second one a shot just to see.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Jonathan

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15341 on: June 21, 2015, 11:50:16 AM »
My sermon this morning is a passage from Huston Smith's book, The Soul of Christianity: Restoring the Great Tradition. Y'all might prefer something on Ozymandias and ambition, but I have chosen a text on singing in the rain and losing one's fear of thunder. Straight to the point:

'My sense of Divine things gradually increased and became more and more lively and had more sweetness.... And scarce anything among all the works of nature were so sweet to me as thunder and lightning : formerly nothing had been so terrible to me. I used to be a person uncommonly terrified with thunder, and it used to strike me with terror when I saw a thunderstorm rising. But now on the contrary it rejoiced me. I felt God at the first appearance of a thunderstorm and used to take the opportunity at such times to fix myself to view the clouds and see the lightning's play and hear the majesty and awful voice of God's thunder, which led me to sweet contemplations of my great and glorious God; and while I viewed I used to spend my time singing or chanting for my meditations, speaking my thoughts in soliloquies - speaking with a singing voice.' p4

Therefore, have no fear. But do not think of your singing and chanting as soliloquy. God will be listening. He, after all, began the dialogue. But He did not  mean to frighten the dog. I'm sure of that.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15342 on: June 21, 2015, 11:56:20 AM »
Have you seen any of the TV interviews with Hilary Mantel? She sure comes across as passionate about not only her writing but this time frame in history - but with so many versions of history now and with each find, usually some archaeological find a new version of history is put together - its fun but would hate to be teaching history today... it is usually taught as a definitive series of events but more and more we hear how most history is written from the winner's perspective - well at least the dates are correct -

And yes, she is a good writer and on top the series on PBS was made so entertaining that for me I looked closer at this time in history with more than the passing glance I've held all these years based on mostly the 6 Wives of Henry series. I knew there was a Cromwell but this does bring him into focus doesn't it.  

Does anyone know anything about the Poldark novels - I found a resale on Amazon of a collection of four of the books from 1973 and the original PBS was done in 1978 - was 1973 the first this series was published - I notice the books by this author were published in 2008 and they do not say anything about them being republished but that does not make sense unless the author added new stories since we know the first PBS series was in 1978 - anyone know anything...?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15343 on: June 21, 2015, 12:02:23 PM »
Posting at the same time Jonathan

Wow - something to dwell on - an amazing thought to contemplate - "I felt God at the first appearance of a thunderstorm and used to take the opportunity at such times to fix myself to view the clouds and see the lightning's play and hear the majesty and awful voice of God's thunder, which led me to sweet contemplations of my great and glorious God; and while I viewed I used to spend my time singing or chanting for my meditations, speaking my thoughts in soliloquies - speaking with a singing voice.'

Immediately I can see examples in my life - and yes, when you had good friends who viewed the clouds for global thunder and lightening to contemplate and discuss it is as if God has left the scene.

We are left with singing and chanting mediations as our hearts bleed for the latest of his children causing such pain and as we question why and how come and react in shock at the place this child acted out with such horror upon God's other children.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

marjifay

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15344 on: June 21, 2015, 12:29:51 PM »
Hilary Mantel's BRING UP THE BODIES is very interesting and much easier to read than WOLF HALL, Steph.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15345 on: June 21, 2015, 12:38:33 PM »
Once upon a time, long time ago now, Winston Graham was one of my favorite authors, and I read ALL of his books.  He wrote the Poldark series, and the television miniseries came from that.  Whether or not Graham himself had anything to do with the scripts, I have no idea.  But the books were marvelous AT THAT TIME.  Whether they have held the test of time, today's tastes being ever so different, again I have no idea.  Graham wrote a lot of books that were NOT part of the Poldark series, as well.

I watched the original series and fell in love with the actor playing Poldark and was even more enchanted with the actress playing Demelza.  Recently, I watched it again on PBS, and Demelza still tickled me to bits.  I look forward immensely to this new series of films, with the hope that they will show the beauty of Cornwall as much or even more than that offering of so many years ago.

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15346 on: June 21, 2015, 05:50:18 PM »
Quote
Hilary Mantel's BRING UP THE BODIES is very interesting and much easier to read than WOLF HALL, Steph.  



You know, it's the strangest thing. I found it to be that way initially,  also, Marj.    But after you see the PBS show and you read Bring up the Bodies, Wolf Hall is amazingly interesting--- you feel like you're picking back up again what you just had a lot of trouble putting down in the second book.  

I'm having trouble believing it's the same book I tried to read before. It doesn't start with torture as I thought it did --(which shows you how much chance I gave it initially).... it starts  with Walter beating his son which is barely taken up in the movie.

 I cannot believe this is the same book i tried to read twice before!   It's amazing the difference it makes. I do think that her style has  improved in the second book as you said  because there's an awful lot of things like , "he, Cromwell, says....."  So apparently somebody made her go in there and say who "he" is.

At any rate so far I'm enjoying it.   I never would have read either of these had it not been for the PBS movie and Mark Rylance.

marjifay

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15347 on: June 22, 2015, 06:29:22 AM »
I did not watch the PBS program on Wolf Hall.  But I did read and like the book, so much  so that I purchased a copy; and I hardly ever buy a book of fiction.

I think that once you get over the problem of not understanding who is doing the talking in the book (as I recall there were several characters with the first name Thomas?, and Mantel often (perhaps too often) uses the pronoun "he" instead of a proper name), the book is not all that difficult to read, and becomes quite interesting.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

marjifay

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15348 on: June 22, 2015, 06:44:02 AM »
Interesting, Jonathan, that passage from the book sounds like what started the first religions -- fear of things people did not understand that led them to want to appease some "god."   I agreed with Bugliosi in his book Divinity of Doubt re his amazement that religious people claimed to know what god thought or what she/he intended.

marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15349 on: June 22, 2015, 08:10:38 AM »
We are born tiny and helpless, and large forms take care of us and see to all of our needs.  If we are lucky, that is.

For by far the majority of us, this sense implanted so early, that an all powerful being has an intense interest in US as an individual, never leaves us. For the rest of our lives, we shrink from our deepest fears, most especially the fear of death and disappearance from being, by asserting there is an all powerful individual, unseen but there always, who is taking care of us and will continue to do so forever.

Unfortunately, this "letting go and letting God" attitude keeps us from putting our brains to work and taking steps to make sure this planet continues to support our species.  It also sets up clever types to invent religions that run as tax free businesses and afford lifelong careers for thousands, as well as pushing the differing mindsets to war upon one another, feeding the voracious maws of the military industrial machine.

We could do so much better.  We don't even try.  We have promised ourselves that that larger than life being "up there" will eventually come and scoop us up and waft us off to eternal comfort and ease.

Steph

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15350 on: June 22, 2015, 08:30:54 AM »
Many years ago in Viet Nam, I looked within myself and found the divine spark as it were,waiting for me to listen to it. I have never been afraid of thunder and lightning. Loved it, all the clashing and banging.. I got a lot of spankings as a child, because I always tried to get out of the house and up in a favorite tree and dance with glee at the storm.. My Mother sincerely did not approve.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

marjifay

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15351 on: June 22, 2015, 12:37:16 PM »
I am also so glad they caught that weird kid who slaughtered those innocent black church members.  I was surprised to see that some of their family members forgive him.  I guess that's what their religion says they should do - turn the other cheek? 
I'm sure I would not be that forgiving, but then I'm not religious.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

marjifay

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15352 on: June 22, 2015, 12:40:35 PM »
MaryPage, that's a very interesting way of looking at how possibly religion got its start.  I'd never thought of that, but it seems logical.  And I think you have a good point that this feeling that there is some powerful being who will take care of us might cause many to not feel responsible themselves for taking care of our lovely earth.

Marj  
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15353 on: June 22, 2015, 01:19:02 PM »
Quote
And yes, she is a good writer and on top the series on PBS was made so entertaining that for me I looked closer at this time in history with more than the passing glance I've held all these years based on mostly the 6 Wives of Henry series. I knew there was a Cromwell but this does bring him into focus doesn't it.




Me, too, Barbara, and apparently we're not the only ones, it's become quite a trend. I am astounded to see so many books out there on the subject of  Wolsey and Cromwell that I never heard of. I've ordered two, because the Wolsey that Mantel portrays is not the one I had heard of, so I've ordered  Naked to Mine Enemies: The Life of Cardinal Wolsey, by Ferguson, Charles Wright,  1958. I understand that this book won the National Book Award for Non Fiction, I may be wrong. I also ordered Wolsey: The Life of King Henry VIII's Cardinal, a brand new book this year by John Matusiak but I got it on kindle.

 There's another one from the '70's entitled the Cardinal and the Secretary or something like that about Wolsey and Cromwell. I hate it when I am just discovering something and  find that people have been talking about the same thing in great depth for a long time.   Makes me feel a little thick which I hope to remedy soon.

That was beautiful, Jonathan.

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15354 on: June 22, 2015, 01:28:41 PM »
I am personally quite taken with the fact that Cromwell was arrested, taken off to the Tower, and executed terribly swiftly AND that his enemy Norfolk seems to have sold the King on this course of action AND that the king seems, according to several accounts from the time, to have greatly regretted this later.  In short, I think Norfolk latched on to some thing the King wanted right then and there, and Henry 8 was always wanting what he wanted right now or yesterday.  

Yes, Marjifay, people neglect just one whole pile of things they should be finding solutions to that would improve our existence as a species with the certainty that God's Will will prevail and He/She/It is predisposed to make sure we will be just fine, thank you.  Heads in the sand like billions of ostriches, with the exception of those who believe, like myself, that we and the life forms on other planets in this and other galaxies are an experiment to see which life forms work out and which fail to utilize their consciousness to secure the continuation of their own species.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15355 on: June 22, 2015, 02:18:46 PM »
Yes, Jonathan's quote I thought was great since like in all religious imagery, it is an allegory and symbol for something beyond words -

For me I have just lost two friends who were so passionate in their interests, with equally a deep concern for mankind - both being of different Christian denominations and both being of different political parties but both intently curious so we/they read and discussed as if our political bent was not a factor - They both cared a great deal and they both spoke as if like thunder and lightening - neither were retiring in their concern for humanity. Their passion seemed to come from a power greater then either of them.

We had great dialogue that NEVER leaned toward proving a point but rather finding examples in our life so we could question or agree with the information we were learning - and they both had great impact in this community - so I see them and their voices as flashes of lightening with new insights or curiosities that they shared and searched out and thunder as we discussed and we shared with others in this community and wrote or visited those who represent us at the state capitol and at the City Council sharing these concerns - and for one of my friends she communicated regularly with our Congressmen in D.C. as well as, over the years served on some National Committees.

Behind it all was their firm belief in the goodness of mankind as represented by those who believe in a power greater than ourselves and choose to call this power a God - so No, not the old picture of a man's voice crashing through the heavy clouds that is taught to children and in earlier time to adults so they can have some idea using a picture to which they could relate - but a power that is more than an image of a man - a God that is not simple a superman version of a man - but a power so great there is no way we can grasp it except by using inadequate imagery  - this is the God that gave courage to those who marched across the Bridge outside Selma - this is the God who many a soldier brings with them into battle - this is the God many turn to who are cleaning themselves from an addiction - this is a God that allows some of us to embrace and want justice for all humanity and I sorely miss my friends flashes of insight and curiosity and the rumbling thunder of their voices that had an impact on so many.

There is all sorts of ways to see the symbolism in the phrase quoted from the book Jonathan shared but, the bigger appreciation is that most religions are heavy in their use of symbolism for something that is beyond the grasp of human vocabulary and vision.  And sometimes in our lives we tackle something so big to us and except for believing in something greater than ourselves we could not tackle the issue if we believe we only have at our disposal the skills and intellect of a human regardless, how educated and skilled it just is not enough.

Some folks meditate, some do yoga, some run, some read inspirational books, some perform a ritual that is thousands of years old, some sing songs of praise, some say prayers on beads, some go into a trance, some chew a hallucinatory in a sweat lodge, some do a Sun Dance ritual, some do philosophy, some read the Bible, all to help them not just gain insight into behavior but to find that elusive thing that calls us, that tells us there is more than chopping wood and carrying water.  
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

mabel1015j

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15356 on: June 22, 2015, 10:23:41 PM »
I was at a lunch today and someone mentioned she had just read "The Paris Architect" and i said "oh, i just heard about that." I - in my mind - was sure someone here on SL had recently said you were reading it. However......... I've used the search link and see it NO where!?! Help?

Regardless, i have requested a hold on the library copy!

Aaarrgghh!

Jean

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15357 on: June 23, 2015, 06:03:06 AM »
Jean both Amazon and B&N have it. I think Amazon generally gives more/better info about the book than B&N.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Paris-Architect-A-Novel/dp/1402294158
review:
http://www.nyjournalofbooks.com/book-review/paris-architect-novel
reading guide into:
http://www.readinggroupguides.com/reviews/the-paris-architect

Steph

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15358 on: June 23, 2015, 08:40:08 AM »
hmm, Paris Architect.. interesting title and I do remember someone on here mentioning it. don't remember who.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #15359 on: June 23, 2015, 12:04:03 PM »
MaryPage, I think Norfolk is definitely one of the arch villains of the piece and I thought the actor who played him in  Wolf Hall deserved a prize, he was so true, albeit not physically,  to what I thought Norfolk was. That seems to have held out. Wolsey and Cromwell I need to research further.