OK this is how I see our discussions - I am not suggesting it is the only way but this has been the fun of discussing a book. If changes are needed we still need some direction - we have two readers who have made a list of the books they enjoyed the discussion - would a few others please share their list -
Trying to address each of you who have given input -
CallieinOK - reads
for pleasure and to gain knowledge about places and historical events but do not like to "analyze" each and every page or the author's philosophy. In keeping with the 'Learn' in Senior Learn it is not the author's philosophy that is analyzed for the sake of delving into the author's thoughts and values so much as sharing in conversation our own values or at least our inquiry into how we think about the message the author is presenting in the book - To simply learn how he used various literary techniques to construct the story seems boring - really more like going back to Freshman year English Lit - noting the meter and rhyme, summarizing plot, characters etc. -
Learning about places and historical events is fun and it is an enjoyable part of reading - all the English Lit devises, which I doubt we want to analyze, are signposts as well as, character development and plot development used to solve the problems in the story which lead the reader to the message. That is the source of our discussions, what we chat about, what we can learn from each other, and with our many eyes we can see a variety of ways the author's message is part of our life - or how the message can be seen among the greater community -
To share facts about places and history and changes in socially acceptable behavior if, the story was written about an earlier time, is like reading annual corporate report or a wine menu - the corporate report comes alive when we learn the plan or reason for the company's - hate to use the word because it sounds so formal but it is true - the company's philosophy, and goal - same as with wine - it is in the taste and comparing that taste to other wines we have tasted -
An author seldom starts a Novel stating the goal or listing the philosophies included in the story where as a non-fiction book most often starts with a Preface outlining the questions being explored and the conclusion the author makes - where as with a novel not only do we have to deduce the goal or message and the values or behaviors that the author's characters act out, and the underlying idea of the story which is more than the conclusion and is left to the reader to discover. For every reader there may be a different viewpoint because each reader brings with them their experiences and the behavior they value - This is where we can and have shared a variety of views as a group sitting in a cafe would discuss an event - a story or novel is a series of events.
Just like when the news is filled with flooding during a storm - everyone shares their opinion of what those caught in the flooding should have done or they are praised because they showed behavior we understand and agree was the thing to do - and then the discussion goes from, how the developers planned the community to, how the homeowner chose their spot to build to, global warming to, a change in the land nearby that used to help retain the water to, warning systems that were inadequate to, how homeowners choose their landscaping and how they leave items in their yards that became lethal weapons when caught in the flood to, how the county needed to build a higher and stronger bridge or better roads or or or -
Out of all that we can ignore it soon after the event and when we have gotten those affected to safety and started on re-building their life or instead of ignoring it, we may become active in some aspect of all that was discussed that was far beyond; how high the water and, what houses where flooded and, when in history this happened in this area and, how folks historically took care of each other when they were flooded out and, what the local weather reporters will note as historical facts and, the photos of the event that may even make it to the local Library's archive.
The author of a novel may or may not open our eyes to a new set of questions however new or old the questions are; what people value, how their behavior affects themselves and others, the intent of including a certain character or problem and yes, the underlying ideas defined by the time in history or the place, all of which we label as philosophy, which leads to determining the author's message.
Tomereader1 - I really think you are giving yourself less credit for your contributions - you have always added much that adds to a discussion as another viewpoint - just like talking about the flooding - we all see something that happened and more, we all have an opinion of why it happened or what made it so bad - or how the damage could have been either avoided or reduced - we do not all agree - thank goodness or all the resulting aspects of the damage would not be explored - missing one, we would not think to reduce that particular problem or see how what we noticed contributed to the climax of the story.
I am hoping we are not in competition - there is no A to earn - again, we all have different life experiences - that is what makes a discussion - look at the great philosophers - some traveled and many hardly left their rooms over their entire life - and yet, they gave us greater understanding than many who saw many cultures.
Senior Learn has always been about 'learning' - which does not mean accepting, hook line and sinker the views of another - if we disagree than we need to look at the intent of literature and how an author uses literary skills to clarify our approach to understand the work. If we disagree over values then, we are not going to change each other nor is everyone in these discussions going to agree - we just go on and continue to find the author's message.
Some authors make us work to find the message where as others include the message in the story, most often one of the characters states the message usually, a known rational for behavior we see as acceptable today. The harder bit is when we have to look at all the characters and parts of a story as analogies - and on top, like the classics, to sift through and not only see the analogies but see how they apply to our inner life because these behaviors would not be tolerated in this more civilized society - and yet, there is a huge following, readership for these classic stories today in the twenty-first century - so we cannot dismiss the work but we can decide we are not comfortable sifting through for the author's message - a different set of stories leading to similar messages or another time in history may be a preference for some of us.
As to Bellamarie your suggestion that having a set time in advance for the length of the discussion - I have to smile because Ovid was a set time - a year for what is it 15 or so books by the same author - what makes it a fun thought is we discussed years ago choosing an author and over the course of a year reading and discussing one of the author's books a month - we never did follow through until now with Ovid - so it is funny - but I think this is not a plan you enjoyed or maybe, it was not so much the plan as the material from this author. And a whole year of Ovid that you were not enjoying you had to wonder what you could read here on Senior Learn that you could discuss rather than wait for an entire year to pass...
As to making it easy to request another topic or genre - it goes down a lot better when the request is made by complementing those who like the genre and then saying, you would prefer such and such - if a few others prefer the such and such than either a change or maybe even a second author can be discussed -
And Steph the biggie is for all of us to share the lists of those books we have discussed that you particularly enjoyed - no need for why you enjoyed them - just to get some kind of common pattern - and yes, the mystery discussion is perfect for a read that does not offer much to either discuss or to mine the story for the author's message
Again, we are digging into a story to come up with the various topics that are food for thought and the stuff of discussion as well as, in order to learn the author's values and message - It is work in a novel but made easy in non-fiction.
So please 'lists'
short or long just a few more lists...please...
