The Library

[bellamarie]

Frybabe,  I wish I would have talked more with my Mom, and grandparents back years ago, and wrote things down.  Now there are so few left.  I am going to do the Ancestry kit my kids gave me for my birthday, but it won't give me the kind of information only my family members carried to the grave with them.  I hope to leave more written information for my generations to come. 

[PatH]

Bellamarie, fortunately for me, in her later years my mother made a hobby of putting together her genealogy and writing it down, and there are lots of family records.  So on that side, I have nearly 400 years of names, and lots of stories.   One fought in the Revolution, one settled in Ohio's Western Reserve when it first opened up (the farmhouse is now in part of Cleveland), one was a forty niner, and lots of other stories.  On my father's side, I know the names of my grandparents and that they came from Abruzzi and that's it.

It's fun to think about, but kind of irrelevant.  We are what we make of ourselves, not what our ancestors were.

[PatH]

Frybabe, when I was young I went through a phase of reading about the Antarctic expeditions, some Arctic ones too.  Scott's story seemed horribly frustrating; I preferred it when the narrators actually came back.  I hope you can pin down your relative.  In spite of what I said in my last post, I think that would be fun.

[Frybabe]

Pat, Once I got through the first few pages of The Worst Journey... it gets a lot easier to understand. Right now I am into the earlier explorations of the Antarctic in Cherry-Garrard's book and just getting ready to start the actual diary entries in Huntford's book.

You and me both, Bellamarie. I know very little about my grandparents let alone anyone earlier.

[Tomereader1]

Once upon a time (lol) I was taking a History Class.  One assignment was to interview a person who had lived during the 20's, 30's.  The only living person I knew who fit that description, was my mother.  Even though she was still mentally functioning, no dementia or Alzheimer's, she was totally unwilling to answer many of the questions that we had outlined. A lot of her history in the 30's I knew from her oral tellings!  I barely was able to know anything about my father's family, except his parents owned a bakery (he learned his skills there) and were of German descent, which was not a subject broached during the 40's and 50's, when I might been of an age to have asked questions.

[bellamarie]

PatH.,  How wonderful for you to have all that information your mother took the time to write down. 

It's fun to think about, but kind of irrelevant.  We are what we make of ourselves, not what our ancestors were.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on it being irrelevant.  I feel it is imperative to know if there were health issues, where we came from, and especially for me and my daughter, it could have helped knowing we had the bi polar gene in our ancestry, which could have given us the insight to know symptoms that began showing up in her in her teens.  Knowing your genealogy can make a difference in getting help going to college or other programs out there.  For me, knowing my American/Indian percentage would have helped in scholarships I could have applied for, and also my children when they were applying for college.  I don't want this information for the fun of it, I want and need it to pass down to my children and grandchildren, because I feel it is a part of who we are. 

Tomereader,  Why do you suppose that was, your mother was not willing to answer your questions in your outline?  I can understand those who lived through the wars, not ready or willing, to discuss their personal struggles and losses during that time.  So many books are now being written telling these stories from the wars.  While I find them sad, depressing and horrific, I think it's good to understand, especially if you have never lived through those times. 

[PatH]

Yes, Bellamarie, you're right.  It's very relevant to know of potential health issues, and ethnicity.  And the stories can be an inspiration.  I just meant that in one sense it doesn't matter what my ancestors did, I'm still responsible for what I've made of myself.

[PatH]

For those of you who also go to our sister site, Pat Scott Halbach, its founder, has passed away.  here's a link:

https://www.seniorsandfriends.org/index.php?topic=716.msg155362#msg155362

[PatH]

Barb, good luck with your appointment tomorrow.  In addition to the troubleshooting to find all the contributing factors, I hope they will alert you to the coping mechanisms available to you.  There must be other tricks in addition to adjusting print size, like light management. 

[bellamarie]

Yes, Barb, good luck with your appointment.  We all miss you, and are hoping you will get some positive answers to help you. 

I began reading Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy.  This will be my first time reading this author.  Yes, I know most of you have probably read him.  I was in shock how many books I found by him when I Googled him.  I plan to read a few pages each day since the book is over 600 pages. 

[Frybabe]

Bellamarie, I had Anna Karenina on my bookshelf for years before I decided I wasn't ever going to read it. It eventually got purged.

The Race to the South Pole is very interesting. The one thing that disturbs me is that throughtout the journey dogs and ponies were routinely slaughtered and eaten both by men and the remaining dogs. Given the resources available, and the amount of forage and food they could take with them, it should have been expected. Both parties, at least at times, rationed the forage and food to the point that the animals were constantly hungry and were chewing on harnesses and other materials to try to compensate. I think that losing or using the animals for food at some point must have been planned for.  They killed the sick, weak and those refusing to pull their weight first. Some of the dogs were females who gave birth during the expedition, but no mention of what they did with the puppies except that they were left at the base camp. One or two of the females who close to birth but not yet whelped were shot as were the females that went into heat during the journey as they caused difficulties with the males. I have to wonder why they took unneutered female dogs to begin with. Scott, who used ponies as well as dogs, doesn't seem to have said much about the disposition  of the ponies. He was prejudiced against using dogs despite the ponies doing less well. The only comment I read so far was that they fed one or two to the dogs. The contrast between the attitudes of Amundsen and Scott is quite striking.


Ginny, I am wondering if you've read Cataclysm 90BC by Philip Matyszak. It is about the Social War.  Does it say anything new or interesting beyond what we've already learned or can learn from Cicero, Sulla et. al.?

[PatH]

Bellamarie, for some reason I've never been able to get very far in Russian novels.  But an exception is Tolstoy's War and Peace, which I really ate up.  Later, JoanK and Babi led a really good discussion of it here.  I've never tried Anna Karenina; let us know how you like it.

Russian science fiction is another exception; I've enjoyed what little I've read.

[Frybabe]

Boris Akunin's Fandorin Mysteries are also very good. Fandorin is a police detective stationed in Moscow in the late 1800's.

I still haven't read any Russian SciFi that I can recall, although I have We in my TBR e-pile. I have seen a Russian SciFi movie I liked; I think the name was Attraction.

[bellamarie]

So far I am enjoying Anna Karenina,  after reading 39 pages of small print, so it seems like 100 pages.  One man Levin,has come for advice from his friend Stepan, as to what he thinks of him asking Kitty to marry him, while Stepan is asking Levin, for his advice on how a married man such as himself, is to deal with being married to an aging wife who he no longer loves, and has been having an affair with a young beautiful woman, knowing he never wants to lose his family over this.  I especially like this quote Levin says to Stepan: 

"Pardon me not according to my deserts, but according to Thy loving-kindness."

[Jonathan]

I would enjoy hearing more about both polar expeditions and an endless Tolstoyan novel. I've always meant to read AK, and am perusing my copy at the moment. Shall we make it a race, Bellamarie? Did you know that William Shirer wrote about about the Tolstoy marriage. I have it right here. Love and Hatred: The Stormy Marriage of Leo and Sonya Tolstoy. Should I read the novel first, or the bio? I believe I remember reading that she helped her husband with his writing. Leave this out. Put that in. That sort of thing.

[bellamarie]

Oh Jonathan, how interesting you should happen to have that book on Leo and Sonya's marriage.  So she had input into his writing.  I think it would be fun reading AK at the same time, it will be a mini discussion so to speak.  I have a feeling you will beat me to the finish, but you know I can't resist a challenge!  Here is a little info I found about AK..... 

Anna Karenina. ...

Many authors consider Anna Karenina the greatest work of literature ever written, and Tolstoy himself called it his first true novel. It was initially released in serial installments from 1873 to 1877 in the periodical The Russian Messenger.
https://www.biblio.com/anna-karenina-by-tolstoy-leo/work/10957

[hats]

I have read Anna K. byTolstoy. I had the chance to read it with Oprah's Book Club. I might have seen the movie too. Reading it is like choosing who to root for at a Basketball game. My feelings swung from side to side like a pendulum. One day, if I live long enough, I will read it again. Not now, at a later time. Bill Gates recommends for summer reading The Man From Moscow by Amor Towles. The cover looks very serious. I'm afraid the novel is too political. What about Becoming and Audacity Of Hope by the Obamas? Have any of you read those books? What in the world would we do without authors? I never want to take any of them for granted.

Good morning~

[PatH]

Good morning, hats.  I like your comment about Anna Karenina:

Reading it is like choosing who to root for at a Basketball game. My feelings swung from side to side like a pendulum.

Maybe I  should give it a try.

We read A Gentleman in Moscow here, and enjoyed it a lot.  The main point isn't politics, it's the life of the gentleman, confined to live in house arrest in a hotel.  My main problem with it was keeping straight all the secondary characters that appear, then eventually show up again.  If I reread it, I'll keep a list.

[bellamarie]

hats,  Our group did indeed, read A Gentleman in Moscow, and it is one of my favorite books of all time!  The author Towles announced he has signed the rights to Tom Harper: 

Amor Towles  August 18, 2017 ·
I'm excited to announce that I have optioned A GENTLEMAN IN MOSCOW to Tom Harper. Tom, who directed a terrific version of War & Peace for the BBC, will bring the novel to life as a 6-8 hour mini series in conjunction with EOne.

Kenneth Branagh to Star in TV Adaptation of 'A Gentleman in Moscow'
8:30 AM PDT 4/3/2018 by Etan Vlessing

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kenneth-branagh-star-tv-adaptation-a-gentleman-moscow-1099206

The story, as Jonathan pointed out when we were reading it, had familiar tones to Casablanca.  I did not feel in any way the politics interfered with enjoying the story of the fictitious characters and plots.  The Count Alexnder Rostov captured me instantly, and I was spell bound from beginning to end by him. It is a fantastic, fun, suspenseful and enjoyable read.  Give it a chance sooner than later.

PatH., Yes, Anna Karenina deserves a second chance.  I love hats quote as well, about how she felt reading the book.  I have high hopes it will prove to be a slam dunk, as they say in Basketball. 

[PatH]

Kenneth Branagh should be a good choice for the Count.

The only movie version of War and Peace I've seen is a 1972 TV series--very long, very good, and really well cast.  All the characters were just like one imagined them.  Anthony Hopkins played Pierre.

[ginny]

Frybabe:

Ginny, I am wondering if you've read Cataclysm 90BC by Philip Matyszak. It is about the Social War.  Does it say anything new or interesting beyond what we've already learned or can learn from Cicero, Sulla et. al.?

I am not familiar with it, is it Historical Fiction? Did you like it?

I came in to say I just read the blockbuster news  (or it is to fans of Wolf Hall) that Hilary Mantel has at last finished the last of the series!! And it's coming out next spring.

Gigantic news in the publishing world. I think I will reread them both (Wolf Hall and Bring Out the Bodies) again or just watch the movie which was extraordinary. It was watching the movie and seeing Mark Rylance and Clair Foy and Jonathan Pryce and Damien Lewis and Mark Gatiss and Anton Lesser and that stellar cast that caused me to read the books in the first place.

[Jonathan]

Challenge accepted, Bellamarie. Let's talk about the 'greatest novel  ever written'. Let's see where it takes us. However long. Let's talk about the Tolstoys. Have you read The Last Station? But first - it's my turn to make dinner. Gotta go. Back later.

[Frybabe]

Ginny, it is non-fiction. I think it focuses more on the rebellion itself rather than on Cicero, et.al., although they are certainly covered. However, I decided to put it off for a while.

Instead, I ordered a book about Marcus Agrippa, of whom I know little.  The book review is by Philip Matyszak who also wrote the forward for the book. Matyszak holds a PhD in Roman History from St. John's College at Oxford, so I guess he thinks Powell's research is good. https://www.unrv.com/book-review/marcus-agrippa.php  The author's academic background was in marketing of all things, but he has long-time interest in history (one wonders why he didn't major in it), researched and written books and magazine articles in his spare time. http://www.lindsay-powell.com/About_the_Author.html I noticed that he is Welsh, and that he was a member of the Ermine Street Guard.

[ginny]

   The negative reviews on Amazon of it are really scathing and I'm not sure, actually, that the Matyszak review is as laudatory as it first seems, some of the mistakes seem pretty bad.

 This "The battle itself is well described. Though we get mostly the author's interpretation of how that controversial battle played out, his version is very credible, with only a few nit-picking errors (such as when Cleopatra raised the sail on her flagship) which interfere with the text.

In fact, the text has a number of errors that proof-reading should have eliminated. Apart from occasional grammatical solecisms, the most contentious issue for this reviewer was the author's indiscriminate use of 'patrician' and 'plebeian' in both the technical sense of Roman social castes and in the modern sense of 'aristocrat' and 'commoner'. This leads - for example - to a reference to the Metelli as one of Rome's 'great patrician families', when the gens was famously plebeian. While the sense of what the author means is usually clear for the general reader, any confusion here is unnecessary and avoidable," by Matyszak, who after all, was asked to write the Foreword, gives me pause.

It's getting harder and harder to find literate credible sources. I'm not sure why that should be?  Hasn't the Internet made experts of us all? hahahaa

 Personally, I hate to read something, believe it,  and quote it,  and find out later it's totally wrong and I have egg on my face because of it. Life's too short.

Thank you for mentioning it. Let us know how you like it?

[Frybabe]

I've come to the conclusion that proof-readers are a dying breed. These days everyone seems to rely on spell and grammar checkers way too much. I suspect that many any of the authors who self-publish rely too much on friends or family members to read the books for errors. Most of them have not been taught proof-reading and editing methods. It is different than general reading. At any rate, that's what I get for not reading some of the Amazon review like I usually do.

I am a little irritated to learn that that almost half the chapters are not about Agrippa but go on about Julius Caesar, Mark Antony and Augustus. Oh, and getting facts wrong. Great! When I worked at Rodale Institute, I was told by one of The New Farm editors, that the first to go when budgets are cut are the fact-checkers. Now there is a job that is sorely lacking especially in the newspaper and broadcast industry. At least I didn't pay full price for the book.

[bellamarie]

Jonathan, No, I have not read The Last Station.  I Googled it, and I found this on http://goodreads.com site:

As Leo Tolstoy's life draws to a tumultuous close, his tempestuous wife and most cunning disciple are locked in a whirlwind battle for the great man’s soul. Torn between his professed doctrine of poverty and chastity and the reality of his enormous wealth and thirteen children, Tolstoy dramatically flees his home, only to fall ill at a tiny nearby rail station. The famous (and famously troubled) writer believes he is dying alone, unaware that over a hundred newspapermen camp outside awaiting hourly reports on his condition.

Did I read it correctly, thirteen children.  Makes me ask, were they all by the same woman?  Egads! 
Hope you had a great dinner.

For the first time ever, my hubby and I skipped the family cook out today, and opted to eat down at The Docks, watching boaters and walking the boardwalk, then tried our luck at the casino.  Won some, but gave it all back.  Oh well, such is life! 

Frybabe,  Wrong facts you say, and fact-checkers are the first to let go, when cutting budgets?  Tsk, tsk... and yet who checks, the fact-checkers?  It made me think about how people believe Snopes.com to be the most trusted fact-checker on the internet, when in fact I was reading they are far from it, if these facts are accurate.  Interesting article if you have some spare time.  https://foodbabe.com/do-you-trust-snopes-you-wont-after-reading-how-they-work-with-monsanto-operatives/

Barb, just want to let you know you are in my thoughts and prayers.  So hoping you are doing better with your eyes.  Take care, miss you.

[Frybabe]

Barb, I have to ditto what Bellamarie wrote. I do miss your posts.

I am chugging along with the book challenge. This month is easy. The first half is gardens. I've just downloaded Gardener of Varsailles: My Life in the World's Grandest Garden by by Alain Baraton and Christopher Brent Murray for June, but haven't decided on a fiction yet. The second half is almost overwhelming with choices having to do with riding a boat.

Almost done with listening to Race to the South Pole by Roland Huntford. If you have a chance I recommend listening to the Audible version. The narrator is amazing. The book positions the diary entries of both Amundsen and Scott back and forth during their journey so that you can compare the mind-set of each. The author includes some info and clarification along the way but it is minimal allowing the diaries speak for themselves. Pat, Scott didn't say much about Cherry-Garrard other than something disparaging (Scott seems to blame or criticize members of his expedition rather often). He along with others did not make the cut for the final push to the pole. I intend to get back to reading his book.

[PatH]

Frybabe, sloppy proofreading is a real sore point with me, and I agree that it's partly a computer-generated problem.  The Washington Post has a lot of this sort of thing--autocorrected words that don't make sense, bits that didn't get removed after cut and paste rewriting, as well as the ordinary grammatical errors or words used by someone who doesn't know what they mean.  They certainly don't seem to care enough to get good quality proofreaders.

[bellamarie]

PatH.,  The Washington Post allows such sloppiness go to print?  Now that amazes me.  I get texts from family and friends that use voice activated apps, and the mumble jumble of the spelling is atrocious. I sometimes can't figure out the message, and respond with just ?.  Journalism as we knew it is dead today.  It's more about getting it out first, rather than checking facts or grammar. 

Frybabe, your book on gardens sounds heavenly.  I have become an obsessive flower gardener.  I promise my hubby, this is the last flower I'm going to buy, and before I get it planted, I have fallen in love with yet another beauty at the nursery, I must take home.  Between flowers and birds, I'm not sure which I have become more obsessed with, in the past few years.

[PatH]

Bellamarie, flowers and birds are about the best things I can think of to be obsessed with.  I'm no good as a gardener, but my neighbors are, and sometimes I think I get more joy from the results than they do.  I'm a bird watcher too, and not only does my yard get a lot of birds, but I can watch a neighbor's feeder from my kitchen window.  An easy way to add to the joy in your life.

Yes, in recent years proofreading has slipped dramatically at the Post.  They're still a good paper, though.

[Jonathan]

Bellamarie, I would love to see your garden. It must give you a lot of pleasure. Do you mind being 1002? I have a book, absolutely gorgeous. 1001 Gardens You Must See Before You Die. You would love it. Lavishly illustrated. Gardens on every continent.

Not every author is as lucky as Tolstoy in having an excellent proof-reader in his wife. What a couple! Anna K is all about themselves. I didn't know I have so much Tolstoy stuff around the house. Including the movie I watched last night, with Sophie Marceau as Anna. I've read the first two chapters and I'm hooked.

[bellamarie]

I have been taking pictures of my flowers and birds over the past few years, and intend to compile a book and a wall gallery in my home with my pictures.  My sister in law keeps reminding me, just in case she thinks I forget to do it one day.  I love how you can create books online now.  Jonathan, I will work on being 1002! 

PatH., I think my neighbor may have gotten me into the flower obsession.  Each week she comes to tell me what she has purchased new.  The only problem is, she is a hoarder, so she buys tons of flowers that need planted, and they end up dying in the pots before she gets to planting them.  Such a shame.  Last year she broke her toe just a few days into her summer break (she is a teacher), so I went over and planted her flowers for her.  My hubby has been doing her yard for the past few years since she is a bit overweight, and can not do it herself, and her nephews would promise to come and mow the lawn, and never show up.  So, yes, it is a joy to have neighbors who take good care of their lawns and have bird feeders, because you do get the joy of seeing them too. 

Jonathan, I am on chapter 12, Kitty is opining on deciding between Vronsky and Levin who are both smitten with her, and Anna is about to come for a visit. 

[Frybabe]

I've pretty much given up on gardening. I still do a little weeding, and this year, I plan on digging my narcissus and iris plants up and resetting them, depending on weather and my back cooperating.

I am a wee bit disappointed that the Versailles garden book does not include any photos, plans or other illustrations. However, there are plenty of those on the net, so I will supplement my reading with those.

The novel I finally chose to read is called The Garden of Evening Mists by Tan Twan Eng.  Eng is Maylasian. The book is his second novel. It was nominated for three prizes and won two of those. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Garden_of_Evening_Mists

[bellamarie]

Frybabe,  I can understand how you can get to a point of no more gardening.  It is A LOT of work! My body is not as flexible as it used to be, so I am sore for days after getting down on my knees and bending and stretching while planting, weeding and spreading the mulch.  Over the past years I have been planting perennials, so I hope to only have to buy hanging annual baskets in the coming years.  I am almost there.  I can't imagine a gardening book with no photos or illustrations. 

I have to tell ya'll, for the first time I ordered my groceries online last night.  My hubby has been doing the grocery shopping for years, because I am an impulse shopper, which caused us to spend way too much when I would go with him.  My daughter in law was telling me about online shopping so I gave it a try.  I think I like it, because I was able to try new things and still be aware of what I was spending.  Hubby just had to go to the store and pick up the order today.  The woman told him the online shopping in hurting their business, because when people actually come into the store, they tend to buy impulsively.  Imagine that! 

[PatH]

Since I stopped driving a few years ago, I have been doing my grocery shopping almost exclusively online, with a local chain which will then deliver the order.  The main disadvantages are its cumbersomeness, the gaps in selection, and the inability to have a look at the produce to see if it's good enough.  It's hard to plan exactly, since sometimes they're out of something, so you have to order generously or you may be short a meal.  Bellamarie, your system sounds better, since it looks like you're dealing with an individual store, not a warehouse, so they're probably more careful.

Right now I'm in Portland, where I'm within walking distance of a grocery, even with my rapidly healing new knee, and shopping in person feels luxurious.

[bellamarie]

PatH.,  Yes, my major chain has more than enough items to choose from.  We buy most of our produce at a fresh market just minutes from our house.  I would never stop going out completely because it's important for our social wellness.  But this is a great alternative, and lucky you to have a store in walking distance, that is great for your new knee.

Jonathan,  I am at the point in the book where Kitty has pretty much made her choice between Vronsky and Levin.  It seems her mother is happy with her choice, and her father is not.  Let me know which of the two you would feel best suited for her.  I have my pick, but will wait for you, so as not to spoil anything.  As a female who was close with my mother, and am close with my grown daughter as well, I would think a mother would have the better instinct, for the best man for her daughter, let's see if this is the  case  for Kitty.

[Jonathan]

Bellamarie, have no concern about spoiling my read of Anna Karenina. I'm off to a slow start with the book itself, but finding a lot of background for what we're getting into. The Tolstoy literary phenomenan. He put a lot of himself into the character Levin. And his wife Sofia says in her diary: 'Lev (her husband) has described our wedding beautifully in his account of Levin and Kitty's wedding in his novel Anna Karenina, Not only did he paint a brilliantly imaginative picture of the ceremony, he also described the whole psychological process taking place in Levins's heart.' (Sofia's diaries, translated by Cathy Porter.

Let's continue the read at whatever pace and exchange impressions on whatever. I'm in for the duration.

[bellamarie]

Oh Jonathan, what a treasure to be able to have a book telling us about the process of Tolstoy's writing this, with the input of his wife Sofia.  Makes me want to own the book you have.  May just need to go hunt for it.  Thank you so much for sharing this information.  Yes, at whatever pace.... in for a penny, in for a pound!

[ginny]

Herman Woulk has died at 103, 10 days before  his 104th birthday,  did you all see that?  On May 17. I loved his books, what a life he had. I think I read almost all of his but loved the Caine Mutiny the best, but Marjorie Morningstar would be a close second.  A lot of people loved his Winds of War and War and Remembrance if I remember that last title correctly. What a writer he was! Here's his Obit: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/obituaries/herman-wouk-dead.html

He was working on a book when he died.

I came IN to say, however that our first ever Mini discussion is now scheduled for June 19, see the Newsline on top of the discussions, and I hope you'll turn out and help us try this new form and see how we like it. It will essentially be what you make of it, so I'm really  looking forward to the experience.

I reread The Remains of the Day again yesterday and once again I see something different in it, from when I reread it a couple of months ago. Is it a magic book? I don't know why I keep seeing different things but I am really looking forward to seeing what YOU see in it.  I am quite excited about this, and hope for a good turnout of different opinions.

The second book we'll try is Educated on July 19, and be warned, you need a strong stomach for this non fiction  book which every single person on earth is talking about, so why not us? Hope to see you then!

[PatH]

Ginny, remind us of the format of the mini discussions.  Do we read the whole book and discuss it all at once like a f2f discussion, or do we still discuss it in chunks, but quickly?