Author Topic: The Library  (Read 2081595 times)

PatH

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23480 on: July 12, 2023, 09:12:45 AM »
I think it was Pedln (real name Anne Bartlett) who was Ella's friend.  Pedln's son lived just a mile or two from me, and when she came to visit, she would sometimes round up any available Seniornetters for lunch, and I would sometimes take her to Politics and Prose for a book shopping spree.  The last time I talked to her she sounded confused, but she was trying to navigate getting back online with us, and there had been some technical change, I think dealing with DSL, that was giving us all fits.  She didn't keep in touch.

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23481 on: July 12, 2023, 12:14:42 PM »
We've lost or misplaced quite a few great book friends over the years. Two others I miss are Pearson and Judy, and our several Australian/New Zealand friends. I miss our great month-long book discussions.

Ginny, have you ever heard of the Henie Latin Grammer? If so, do you have an opinion on his method? I still have all my Latin texts. 

I was cruising about checking out the specials on the Kindles yesterday. What I discovered is that you can read more file formats on them now. Including .epub. The blurb mentioned a conversion program and there was something about a link or better/smoother/faster way to access Libby/Overdrive on the new Kindles. I would have to go investigate which ones have these new features, because I forget as the moment.

Well, that sort of blew my reasons for getting my Kobo. I have the Libre II or plus (whatever!) which looks a lot like Amazon's Oasis. It is really nice to handle with the wide side and buttons (or you can swipe if you want). But it doesn't seem to hold a charge as long as my ancient Paperwhite, is slow to boot up and is now as nice to find your way around the bookstore. I usually go up on the website to find what I want.

Speaking of Kobo, I finally paired my Bluetooth headphones to it. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything to download that wasn't super expensive. They don't seem to have very many sales, and I see only a few at a time. Also, I find their selections a bit less than inspiring. Of course, I only looked around for a little while and only once since I got the earphones paired. BTW, it is awesome for sound, IMO. I got one that had a good rating for audiobook files as well as music.

Gotta run, my contractor is on his way over to look at a porch roof leak.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23482 on: July 12, 2023, 01:35:59 PM »
Thanks on Mary Page's last name Cobb - for some reason I did not stay on Senior and Friends - was more chatty and at the time I liked our discussion of books - I did not know it was still going strong in that didn't the moderator who I think lived in Canada pass on...

As to newspapers - no delivery service here plus to read a daily newspaper today with all the online info would take up more hours then I'm willing to give up and so I've limited myself to the Financial Times online and of course Texas Monthly that was the home of Molly Ivins...

I too miss our monthly discussions however there are so many changes in the past few years that it is now just another loss. We had a grand group who really made a difference in our lives and to those who have passed their contribution to book discussions was probably only a blip to the family that grieves their passing... 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23483 on: July 12, 2023, 02:47:56 PM »
Here you go Ginny - one of your favorite authors - hope it has repeat capabilities in case you don't get back in here today....

https://twitter.com/LibraryAmerica/status/1676621966491492357

and in case anyone does not receive a daily from Library of America here is their link

https://www.loa.org/

OK just re-read it is scheduled for the 19th - On 7/19, an exploration of Ray Bradbury’s genius
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23484 on: July 13, 2023, 08:33:58 AM »
 Ah dear Pedln, I was thinking of her the other day. Our get togethers were marvelous, weren't they?

I've also been thinking of Pat Westerdale and Andrea. A lot.

I do think Ray Bradbury is a wonderful author. Thank you for that, Barbara.

I can't get over  Bill Bryson, though. The Road to Little Dribbling was published in 2015, when I read it the first time. Today it seems completely different to me. I recall thinking that other than the opening pages it was kind of cranky  and just  not as funny/ engaging as the others. I read it very quickly.   Today I canNOT stop laughing at it, reading snippets to my husband and generally smiling over every word.  Has it magically changed? I've got the hardback, is it hardwired to change with one's age?  Or maybe I have. Anyway, the man is a treasure, it's a delightful and much needed anti-stress read for those of us of a Certain Age. It's been a long time since I went to sleep laughing.

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23485 on: July 13, 2023, 02:01:01 PM »
FryBabe, I'm posting this to you, because I think you are the guru of Sci-Fi.  If I'm wrong, just pass this on to whomever is.  If you are the guru, is there a "fiction" book about AI taking over the world?  Even a short, dry, non-fiction would be okay.  If anyone here watched 60 Minutes on Sunday last, they had a segment on AI, and it left Scott Pelley "speechless" (in his own words).  They showed what this AI could do, both computer-wise and in the robotic neighborhood, where the robots taught themselves to play soccer, with the ultimate aim of "scoring". Cute to watch them run and kick and fall down, and get up, but scary as hell to realize "they taught themselves" what the purpose was--get the ball in the net.  The computer-wise segment was even scarier and to listen to the Google Expert talk about it, frightened me deeply.  I see a world where humans are un-needed, and the AI can take over the economy, banking, planning wars, etc  If you know of a book about this, I really want to read it.  All recommendations accepted.  And thanks in advance.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23486 on: July 13, 2023, 05:02:42 PM »
Yes, several and yes, really scary - so much that many, including church leaders are beside themselves - the problem they see is AI only uses what is fed into the system to create and perform and anything that is taken on faith without hard evidence is not entered into the system - those with the technical skills are God doubters and Church doubters which is mostly faith based - result, next to nothing faith based has been fed into any AI system - Most of our morals including law is based in natural or faith based beliefs and so anything that is not a written law or inferred by a natural use of what we call common sense is not being calculated for AI outcomes.

Also, there are so far no laws controlling what to program and how or when to use AI - given that, granted much of creation is based on other existing creations that can be put together in a new way, some new creations have a new element from imagination - that imaginary spark of new is not within AI capacity.

Another, AI does it's calculations (thinking) at least 10 times and I've read 50 times faster than any human can think therefore, where in time we may get there AI has and we have no idea how the results fit because our brain can not yet even calculate what AI is acting on or ready to act on ---

hang on I will get the names of the books that I have to admit I've only cracked a few pages or a chapter in each - part of my problem I've spoken about this year where I cannot seem to settle down and read anything through...   
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23487 on: July 13, 2023, 06:04:59 PM »
Ok rather than my write-up I'm going to with as many as I can simply provide the Amazon link

1. Find this astounding that AI can actually change our brain

https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Change-Digital-Technologies-Leaving/dp/0812993829/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OREYZF5SS720&keywords=mind+change+susan+greenfield&qid=1689283494&sprefix=susan+greenfield%2Caps%2C256&sr=8-1

2. A to Z basics... no Author summation or opinion

https://www.amazon.com/Artificial-Intelligence-Things-Today-Future-ebook/dp/B079JXCVGS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=39ZTMV3KNAKZT&keywords=artificial+intelligence+101+by+lasse+rouhiainen&qid=1689283737&sprefix=lasse+rouhiainen%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-1

3. Have not found a part II

https://www.amazon.com/Impact-ChatGPT-Artificial-Intelligence-Society-ebook/dp/B0BZJX4LPP/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2U1RC55YL3MPJ&keywords=Eduardo+Castell&qid=1689283841&sprefix=eduardo+castill%2Caps%2C116&sr=8-2

4. Wow just came across this one and I've ordered it for my Kindle - how the law comes into the picture

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C5WKPY2M/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0C5WKPY2M&pd_rd_w=5fDeq&content-id=amzn1.sym.f734d1a2-0bf9-4a26-ad34-2e1b969a5a75&pf_rd_p=f734d1a2-0bf9-4a26-ad34-2e1b969a5a75&pf_rd_r=ZT7D6HV4EAXK8T8TZXCM&pd_rd_wg=rEXpl&pd_rd_r=a6328b19-de7f-4528-8afc-c6fab8f5f1f5&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

5. This one goes into some practical use that actually I see as a form of protection once we understand how AI is used in digital marketing

https://www.amazon.com/Unlevel-Playing-Field-Biggest-Mindshift-ebook/dp/B09QMTY7PN/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3IP6EYDJAQY4B&keywords=frederick+vallaeys&qid=1689284180&s=digital-text&sprefix=Frederick+Vallaeys%2Cdigital-text%2C124&sr=1-1

6. These 12 strategies are worth using as a guide - this author writes other books as a series - one is about Alan Turing and so I'm thinking his work must have something to do with AI - he also writes about quantum math which suggests understanding quantum and algorithms is going to be basic to using and following AI and also t see where the thinking that affects us socially and culturally is based.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BZB6JF5N?ref_=dbs_m_mng_rwt_calw_tkin_7&storeType=ebooks&qid=1689284323&sr=1-10

7. An example here is by using the Bible as a guide challenges AI and your thoughts may be considered 'misinformation', a conspiracy theory, and cause polarization.

https://www.amazon.com/Following-Jesus-Digital-Jason-Thacker-ebook/dp/B0B6YDKWH6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2ETZQAROQZ3O1&keywords=Jason+thacker&qid=1689285011&s=books&sprefix=jason+thacker%2Cstripbooks%2C140&sr=1-1

8. David Sax is more 'life affirming' in this book

https://www.amazon.com/Revenge-Analog-Real-Things-Matter/dp/1610398211/ref=sxts_entity_rec_bsx_s_def_r00_t_aufl?content-id=amzn1.sym.a36c3969-f821-4d5b-a8e8-be129cf4aa4a%3Aamzn1.sym.a36c3969-f821-4d5b-a8e8-be129cf4aa4a&crid=3PH2XQ7BZ3SPD&cv_ct_cx=david+sax+the+future+is+analog&keywords=david+sax+the+future+is+analog&pd_rd_i=1610398211&pd_rd_r=514222d9-561e-4ec0-9306-cc67b79e8d8d&pd_rd_w=UjqiZ&pd_rd_wg=tYxb8&pf_rd_p=a36c3969-f821-4d5b-a8e8-be129cf4aa4a&pf_rd_r=V30YGZ9W5C54139ST84N&qid=1689285283&s=books&sprefix=david+sax%2Cstripbooks%2C133&sr=1-2-ef9bfdb7-b507-43a0-b887-27e2a8414df0

9. These authors take us on a wider world and universal view with a scientific view of the major change in our understanding as major as when we understood the world was not flat... Quantum is at the root of this change in perception. Which I see as back to the beginning - without understanding Quantum and its change to our thinking AI will be a mystery that controls us...

https://www.amazon.com/Biocentrism-Consciousness-Understanding-Nature-Universe-ebook/dp/B003PJ6UHA/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?crid=2PI490ZLC9DP7&keywords=robert+lanza+biocentrism+2009&qid=1689285579&s=books&sprefix=robert+lanza+biocentrism+2009%2Cstripbooks%2C102&sr=1-1-fkmr0 




“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23488 on: July 13, 2023, 06:27:30 PM »
One more I found on my Kindle that I got about a third of the way into - Pastoral Virtues for Artificial Intelligence Care and the Algorithms that Guide Our Lives by Jaco Hamman

From the book ---  "AI is ever evolving. While all AI depend on algorithms, statistical models, and the input of data, machine learning can be distinguished from deep learning and reinforcement learning as three subsets of AI. The context in which the word “AI” appears often indicates what type of AI is referred to, as the adjectives “machine” or “deep” “or “reinforcement” are not always used...

Deep learning is based on artificial neural networks (ANNs)—many computers and input sources (called perceptrons) connected to one another—where learning takes place in supervised and unsupervised ways. Neural networks seek to mimic human brain functioning. A perceptron informs classification and makes predictions possible. Examples of deep learning programs include speech recognition, board game software, and medical image analysis (reading x-ray films in radiology, for example). Another example is the motor control of robots, where a robot can navigate obstacles or keep its balance if pushed off-balance. Not only does the algorithm understand all the data gathered, but it also has to intelligently respond to that information. Deep learning has removed much of the need to speak to a live person when we call our banks or a large corporation. Error rates on speech recognition now are in the 5.5 percent range, the same error rate of person-to-person communication.

Deep learning empowers AI to see a dog—one not previously part of the algorithm through data input—and to recognize it as a dog. When one searches for a person named Bert Hathaway, deep learning anticipates you are not searching for Berkshire Hathaway, a process called entity disambiguation. Due to the neural networks, significant training data is used in deep learning. Deep learning AI has the capacity to grow its algorithm to be more efficient at what the algorithm was created to accomplish. This is a strong positive, as inherent biases and faults within the algorithms can be corrected by the program itself. It is no surprise that deep learning awakens hope in some and fear in others. Reinforcement learning builds upon machine and deep learning making experience-driven sequential decision-making possible.

Through reinforcement learning, AI can take actions in the real world without the need to have labeled data where the algorithm is explicitly taught the meaning of a piece of data. The program AlphaGo’s ability to play the game Go better than any human relies on reinforcement learning. The software that can drive an autonomous vehicle is built on reinforcement learning as decisions are made beyond the recognition of traffic signals. The fact that reinforcement learning empowers an AI to take independent actions in the real world raises questions about safety mechanisms and ethical frameworks that will keep the AI from causing harm.

The various types of AI can further be separated into object-specific AI, general-purpose AI (also referred to as artificial general intelligence; AGI) and artificial superintelligence (ASI). Object-specific AI is what we most readily find. It is the AI that has a specific function, such as playing a board game, managing financial systems or robots, or understanding language. Object-specific AI delivers a certain product and can be very good at doing so since computers are highly effective in doing repetitive tasks. General-purpose AI, however, builds on deep learning and reinforcement learning to create an AI that can figure out, by itself, how to do things.

Imagine an AI that creates a model for the most effective ways to build a net zero house. The AI then drafts the plan, codes a 3D printer, and continues to build the house with the help of robots it had programmed. Though general-purpose AI may be some years off it will be reached, adding importance to a conversation on pastoral virtues for AI. Artificial superintelligence is anticipated as an AI that will surpass human intelligence in every form, including scientific creativity, general wisdom, and social skills. ASI is currently only a theoretical possibility as we have yet to achieve general-purpose AI.

Whether it is machine learning or deep learning or reinforcement learning, AI depends on the training data—the input—it receives. This opens AI to algorithmic bias. When Apple entered the credit card business with their Apple Card, their algorithm discriminated against women, as a partner to one a Apple’s executives discovered. This is but one of many examples of AI not protecting equality or justice and is yet unable to navigate matters of intersectionality. When the values and virtues we seek in life have not been included in an AI’s algorithm, the danger related to a biased AI increases."

Joanne sounds like that soccer game was another step along the path to AI figuring out how to do things - playing against a team Not Using AI would not be the equality or justice that we expect to see on any sports playing field - huh maybe these trans men playing on women's sports teams is preparing us for the injustices to come...

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23489 on: July 13, 2023, 07:32:32 PM »
Tomereader, science fiction has a huge number of stories in which artificial intelligences try to take over the world, or be part of it.  Sometimes it's deliberate, sometimes accidental, sometimes for good, sometimes for evil, sometimes they succeed, sometimes they fail, sometimes you're left in suspense.  Frybabe has read many more of these than I have.

One of the early prototypes gave us the word "robot"--the play R.U.R. by Czech writer Karel Capek.  R. U. R. stands for Rossum's Universal Robots, which have been created to free mankind from work.  Only, freed from this burden, people stop reproducing, because they feel they have no purpose in life.  I won't spoil it by saying more.  The play is short, very readable. and probably still available in a Dover Thrift Book.

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23490 on: July 13, 2023, 08:17:51 PM »
Wow, Barb. That heavy reading will likely keep me busy for a while. I put one on my wish list and two I downloaded because they are in the Kindle Unlimited program.

Several Science fiction books I read that involve AIs running the world or attempting to takeover that I have read:

1. Ann Leckie wrote a series of books beginning with Ancillary Justice.  It won tons of awards. I read the series, and now she has a new one coming out in the same universe, but with different characters. Not heavy on the science, more a human interaction with various cultures, etc.

2. Daniel H. Wilson wrote Robopocalypse and its sequel, Robogenesis. This is war between a powerful AI trying to take over the world. I really liked these.

Well, great. There was another one I read, but I just had a brain fart and forgot what it was. Oh, well.

Other books that involve AI's, but not necessarily AI's running the world: I have Daniel Suarez's book Daemon but have yet to read it. I tried several times to start William Gibson's Neuromancer, but couldn't get past the drug party at the beginning. Gibson is the guy who, if I remember correctly, coined the term Cyberpunk. I didn't think it had anything to do with AI, just a bunch of people really into net diving, hacking and VR, but he as written lot since that book, so maybe AI gets a treatment. Anyone read his books?
 
Two books I want to read but haven't yet are Clifford D. Simik's City and C. Robert Cargill's Sea of Rust .

Issac Asimov wrote a series of short stories and books about robots as well as the Foundation series. The movie I, Robot is based on his stories. An AI controls the robots. Excellent.  The Terminator series is considered and AI thing. I never saw the movies, nor do I know if they are based on a book. And last but not least is Blade Runner, which is based on Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by Philip K. Dick. I did read PKD's original, and John Scalzi's take on it with is The Android's Dream.

Good catch, PatH. I forgot about that one. R.U.R. was pre-Asimov and had to have had an influence on him.

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23491 on: July 13, 2023, 08:54:54 PM »
I am really interested in whether or not PatH, Barb or FryBabe watched the 60 Minutes program.  I usually program the DVR for things like that, but missed the beginning of it.  Somehow, I can't remember how to obtain a link from CBS so I could watch the whole thing, but when I went to CBS 60 Minutes, there's junk where I need to get Paramount+ to do that.  Ain't goin' there!  Now, if I can print out all these recommendations, it will be a miracle for me.  (I just this morning installed new print cartridges as both Color and B/W were out.  Those things are very expensive). Next question:  Is there a place or how could I save all your posts w/links?  Help this silly old woman negotiate this basic, non-AI task as no one has figured an algorithm for bypassing stupidity.  As the Google AI expert stated "there is NO Law governing AI and probably several years down the road before anyone tries.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23492 on: July 13, 2023, 09:15:21 PM »
No I did not watch the program - in fact knew nothing about it - sorry - oh Joanne please asking for help is not silly - a couple of things I can think of - copy the post by right clicking your mouse and then right click again to paste it onto a word document on your computer - or - go to Amazon and put each link or book title in and first, when the book comes up go to the paperback or hard copy and hit the yellow bar add to your cart - it has to go into your cart as if you were buying and then when you are in the cart under the photo of the book it says save for later - hit it and a list is created of books you do not want to buy now but may buy in the future - you can leave them there in the save for later for months on end - I have 75 items in my save for later list that comes up every time I add something in my shopping cart but does not affect any ordering I do from my shopping cart - others here may have other suggestions how they save a list from Senior Learn that they can access later...

OK brain is busy and I've noticed now across the board - anyone younger than someone actually who is still working or who has only recently in the past year or so retired - anyone below that age range when you talk to them they do not want any background information to understand your quandary or where you are coming from so they can adjust their response to your experience, knowledge or dilemma - all they want is the bare minimum facts -

I thought it was because so much conversation is limited using online communication exchanges that utilize a limited number of words so that words were reduced to letters - but after reviewing that bit I shared that I read last Spring from Pastoral Virtues for Artificial Intelligence Care and the Algorithms that Guide Our Lives I'm realizing that learning anything online immediately the information is reduced to what I consider simplistic but a form that can pin point information - therefore, story telling while asking for guidance is a no no that I was feeling I was wrong -

Well now I realize I am no more wrong then anyone who uses their God given brain - I remember studying years ago how we learn best by comparing new knowledge to what we already know - In order to serve or answer with meaning you have to know what was behind the question, the past experience that is to be changed, the dilemma - and so they are the ones that are narrowing their life to fit the algorithm that eliminates story telling which was also the way you added to the moment especially with trades people or those plying their special skills or just strangers - it is the human element where we could bond over handling something from our past as this person wanting help did or we could laugh and how ridiculous the past experience - behavior that these books are acknowledging AI is not skilled in... 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23493 on: July 13, 2023, 09:56:44 PM »
Okay, I've printed off each of the responses, even saved the one with the links.  Hope I'm all set to do some research.  Thanks to all who responded!  You are treasures, each and every one.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23494 on: July 14, 2023, 04:34:07 PM »
I discovered that you can access the program by going to:  60MinutesOvertime.com
I don't think I typed that link in correctly but maybe you can figure it out.  I sent it to another friend, and it worked correctly in the email.





The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23495 on: July 14, 2023, 05:20:29 PM »
thanks - need to try it - I just had the biggest laugh - among my saved quotes attached to a photo is this - sure is not compatible with AI 

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23496 on: July 14, 2023, 08:34:44 PM »
Has anyone had any experience with any of the Oxford University Very Short Introductions books? I just ran across a YouTube clip that mentioned the series as a very good start for absolute beginners and the curious. Amazon has them. I may try a few. Since many of them come in Audible form, I went over to Audible, but could only come up with the Podcast. Those are only between 10 and 15 minutes a piece. I don't think Audible indexed them under Oxford, so I will try tomorrow to find some of them. I can probably come up with some under author or title.

TomeReader, I did not see the Sixty Minutes episode. That is another thing to check into.

Right now, the cats are pesting me to get off the darn computer. Shan has a new toy that requires Margie power to operate several times a day.

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23497 on: July 15, 2023, 08:09:40 AM »
And here's an article on AI with an opposite slant: it's good for education:

Yes, AI could profoundly disrupt education. But maybe that’s not a bad thing
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/14/ai-artificial-intelligence-disrupt-education-creativity-critical-thinking?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


I have never understood, perhaps you do, why memorization is such an awful thing. Those of us of a certain generation memorized. We memorized poems which we can recite today, everything was memorization. Somehow along the way that became the Devil. I will never forget the statement made to me, " I don't memorize, I learn."     Huh?

My own experience with AI has been interesting. Sometimes Latin students (who are all smart to begin with) use it to parse.  But in very difficult passages you need human understanding of idiom and a lot of other things which AI can't yet provide, there simply hasn't been enough fed INTO it yet. In one very difficult  passage parsed by AI quoted by a face to face  student to me as the answer two mistakes were made, both of which could only have been answered correctly from  long discussion between grammarians with a lot of experience.  When I pointed out the two mistakes the student wrote the website providing the AI and asked AI if time were a possible issue in the result since the response had been immediate. AI responded to the criticism with a note of apology saying that Latin grammar was very difficult and very difficult to do in a short time span. It was quite interesting to have an apology from a machine for not getting something right (when the fault was not the machine's in the first place).

I can see some good in AI,  and a lot of potential for misuse.


BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23498 on: July 15, 2023, 08:22:13 PM »
From what I see everyday people not looking to create but using AI for useful information as we could turn to Google for a faster response then our looking it up in an encyclopedia or calling some one and so AI is even faster - looks like we are seeing changes all ready.

My sister is a writer early in her career and put into whatever AI she had access to the outline of a novel and it came back in less then 10 minutes a better book than most  - when we were talking like a light turned on we both realized that is what is going on in Hollywood - they can put the points they want to include and a story line and it will come back in a short period of time without paying for writers to spend weeks on creating and for the purpose of a money making movie or TV program it works - ideas derived from millions of books that AI can access and use in a new way and combine in a new way to make a good movie -

AI may become better and be able to access new creative thinking but regardless, as of now AI does not include anything that cannot be proved and that is the concept that concerns me - will it replace acting on dreams not yet imagined, or make judgements as to the worth of dreams not yet made real? Maybe that is a concern that will work itself out however anything that is not controlled and does not include a set of morals that match what a society believes is good for them is a free for all that as of now anything that is not addressed by law is treated equal to what we admire. Of course one of the books that I decided to buy does include how beneficial AI has been for marketing.

The aspect that concerns me and I'm hoping it concerns enough others because as of now AI can be and is being used to by pass law enforcement for nefarious activity just as it can be a super fast help to those seeking in depth information to sharpen their plans for a successful venture. As of now it is all included in AI both the nefarious and the honest and kind with no judgement much like a book by Larry McMurtry or Cormac McCarthy - however we knew the books were novels and not documentaries. 

Reminds me of fire - it can be a great assistance just as it can not controlled create great loss - only AI is dealing with our brain and that is getting serious - I did not know how just depending on computer learning algorithms is already changing the thinking and problem solving of those who look for information regularly online - it focuses rather than encouraging a broad viewpoint

It appears AI is as helpful as it is dangerous and that to me is the challenge to reduce, we will never eliminate, but reduce the dangers to our future. 

Like you I never understood why memory is a bad thing - there are schools throughout the world that still use memory as the means of learning through most of what we would call the primary grades - my take on that is whomever has the educational soapbox goes overboard - it was such a good thing for every kid to go to college and to make the point eliminated was workshop type classes - and so now we depend on migrants to fix anything around our home or our vehicle and to even build everything from houses to highways and kids that could not cut college are living with their parents or on the streets.

I hear that because of the less then sterling education offered in colleges during Covid with no class interaction few life long friends were made, that help students with future jobs or were easy to contact as candidates for various social and cultural groups plus, the college education was not making it easy to find the well paid jobs that most kids were given to understand a degree would be their ticket and so, we may find more plumbers who open their own business or even a garage that is local and not part of some national organization taking the profits out of a community - we shall see - in today's world with the huge change in morality the many using AI as is to their benefit will bring profit - hate that sides are taken over moral behavior and profit is the most important and so we shall see...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23499 on: July 17, 2023, 06:14:57 AM »
Some warnings about AI's being planted in brains: https://www.businessinsider.com/un-warns-against-implanting-ai-chips-brain-over-mental-privacy-2023-7 The only AI implant I had heard of up to now was a guy who had a chip implanted that enabled him to walk. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/24/science/paralysis-brain-implants-ai.html I wonder how many people have had these implants so far.

Elon Musk, who was one of the original board members for OpenAI and left to begin his own company, has very recently gained USDA approval for its first in human brain implant trial.  Musk now opposes open source AI for its potential to be used for something dangerous or destructive. Here is an article from the Turing Institute that, in the first paragraph, pretty much sums up what open source AI is right now. https://www.turing.ac.uk/blog/what-defines-open-open-ai 



ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23500 on: July 17, 2023, 08:45:23 AM »
 The BBC this morning has a wonderful quiz on AI, and can YOU tell when you're seeing it?

Which one of these people is real, it asks? Among other things.

10 is a perfect score. I got a sparkling 2 and the notice from AI that I have been "terminated." hahahaha See if you can improve on my score:


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-66110953


BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23501 on: July 17, 2023, 04:31:37 PM »
I would never have guessed Hawkins put out a warning about AI but then I had no idea who Rishi was - I was still dismissed with a 6 out of 8 and so I guess unless perfect we are simply dismissed... the face ID was easier for me since one of my grands teaches computer art mostly used in advertising and making games and we only recently had a conversation about how many political photos were created and not real at all.. As I understand it, so far AI has been used replacing work rather than being called upon to create new ideas for the marketplace. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23502 on: July 17, 2023, 08:33:24 PM »
I got 5 out of 8!
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23503 on: July 18, 2023, 08:57:24 AM »
No kidding, did you really? I don't think you need to worry about understanding  AI. hahaaha

I was quite amazed by something the  BBC did (which I  naturally read after failing the test). I love the matter of fact way the BBC "explains" something. They are always explaining something which some might think simple, but which is, in reality not, and you're dying to know and afraid that somebody might find out you DON'T know,  and they are clear and not condescending. I think they could explain the concept of a rope and make the reader think he or she was a nuclear physicist, but the final outcome IS, you know something you didn't. I love their approach. Their article on AI was wonderful, it's been here for quite some time and crept in on us, the automated voice when you call for help with some technical thing, SIRI, it goes on and on.

And Spell Check just underlined a typo in red here. Can we think of Spell Check as AI?


BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23504 on: July 21, 2023, 02:48:47 PM »
Library of America is moving their warehouse to Ann Arbor - to reduce the cost of moving tons of books they are offering a wonderful sale on many - from 55% to 65% off list price  - here is the link
https://loa.org/books/collections/14-warehouse-sale?no_lightbox=1
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23505 on: July 25, 2023, 06:44:37 AM »
Morning all. I hope everyone is doing well.

Ginny, I don't think spell check is an AI, or it wasn't originally. Who knows what they've done with it now.

Time for a current books in progress update, I think. On my laptop and into chapter two is Persian Fire by Tom Holland. He is a bit dry, but he packs a lot of history into his books. Too bad there isn't a pdf of the maps in his book, but that is why I chose to listen to it on the laptop; I can look up ancient maps quickly. I intend on getting through this one since it has been put aside several times already.

Next is The Anarchy:  The East Inda Company, Corporate Violence and the Pillage of an Empire by William Dalrymple. This is another book that gets picked up and put down even though it is very interesting. Dalrymple has written extensively about Indian history. This volume is about the demise of the Mogul Empire and the rise of the British East India Company. This is well written and includes many extracts of firsthand accounts.

My library read, and getting the most attention is Edward Abbey's The Monkey Wrench Gang. Has anyone read this or any of Abbey's works? He has a wonderful way with words and vocabulary. Who knew a novel about what is essentially a story about a group of environmental activists (terrorists?) would hold my interest.

Lastly is G. S. Jennsen's second in her extensive Amaranthe space opera/war series, Vertigo. Jennsen offers many of her short stories in this series for free if anyone wants to check it out.

PatH

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23506 on: July 25, 2023, 10:58:07 AM »
Looks like I missed another chance, Frybabe.  The Monkey Wrench Gang has been in a TBR corner forever, but didn't make the cut here.I think Bob must have bought it.

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23507 on: July 25, 2023, 11:45:05 AM »
Pat, while I don't particularly care for the quirky characters, I must say that Abbey makes up for it with his writing style and his strange sense of humor. The main characters include a long-time Colorado River boat guide who hates the Glen Canyon Dam, a Doctor who hates roadside billboards, a Viet Nam vet who has a hate on for all the power lines, plants and mining, and a gal who came to the area, fell in love with it and doesn't like everything getting paved over and built up. They are quirky, but not very likeable in the end. I plan on completing this one and going on to another for comparison.

PatH

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23508 on: July 25, 2023, 02:10:18 PM »
it sounds like I would like the same things you did, especially the sense of humor.  So, worth trying if it comes my way, not worth money or much effort to get.

I'm reminded of trying to read The Eye of the Storm, by Australian Nobel Prize winner Patrick White.  White does a superb job of getting you inside the heads of his characters, and they are the meanest, most manipulating, unloving characters I've ever met, and I couldn't stand being in their heads, so gave up.

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23509 on: July 26, 2023, 09:29:42 AM »
I had the strangest thing happen to me last night and I'm not sure what to make of it. Perhaps you all know.

What is this "SINGLE" thing that Amazon Kindle now has? I had gone to bed without a book for the first time in ages, and after playing my normal games on the ipad realized I needed a book and those in the nightstand didn't appeal, so I went to Kindle and here taking the whole page was a "Kindle Single,"   called   Vermeer to Eternity  by Anthony Horowitz.

I was curious about Horowitz, he's very famous as a mystery writer and one whose work we have seen many times in movies and  TV and not realized it. He lately apparently is doing the new Sherlock Holmes series, rave reviews, I've always thought about getting one of his, but why is he on my kindle and can I read it and yes I could, what a catchy title and I am enjoying it NO END...And that is when I looked at the bottom of the page  and noted that the entire thing is 23 pages and  unfortunately I've already read 12.

What is a Single? I am quite sure I haven't paid for it, but I WILL be buying more Horowitz, I can tell you that. He's VERY very good. Love the way he writes.


jane

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23510 on: July 26, 2023, 10:49:26 AM »
I'd never heard of a "Single" and I'm a big user/buyer of Kindle books. 

https://bonafidebookworm.com/what-is-a-kindle/
 
Seems to have been around since 2013....kind of between a novella and a mag article in length, I guess.

jane

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23511 on: July 26, 2023, 11:06:15 AM »
I'm looking into the Kindle Single bit because I never really paid attention to the designation before. On the surface I would have said they are another name for "stand-alone" books, but that is clearly not the case. I see plenty of series books offered in the "single" listing. and, they can't all be Amazon originals because many of the books can be bought on other sites. So, off to do some research in a few minutes.

Meanwhile, my daily news cruise dug up this article regarding another great archeological find in Rome. https://apnews.com/article/italy-four-seasons-c3723a4f66ddba7a2a5161881398d76e

Ok, I did very little research to come up with an answer for Ginny. I agree with Jane. Wikipedia also has a good explanation for Kindle Single which certainly helps me because I do not always want to get involved with a lengthy series. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindle_single

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23512 on: July 26, 2023, 01:41:15 PM »
I don't remember ever seeing "Kindle Single" show up on my Kindle Fire.  I have seen, and taken advantage of their "samples or trials". 

The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23513 on: July 27, 2023, 10:28:08 AM »
THANK you all. I had no idea what it was, and unlike what appears to be most of you  I also have not done much (anything) with kindle in some time.

This appeared in my inbox this morning from Goodreads: You finished Vermeer to Eternity (Kindle Single). What’s next?

I have no idea what's next? There were quite a few "Singles" displayed this morning  by the cover but none by any author I have heard of. And none which I would be willing to pay for, unless, like this one, they were free.

The very end of the Horowitz was not....I'm not sure that the very end was as satisfying as the rest of the story,  but we are in a national position where that would seem good.

Anyway, despite that, I'm going to try his Magpie Murders is it, which has no end of wonderful ratings and see if I like it, because he really does have a facility with words.





BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23514 on: July 27, 2023, 04:38:19 PM »
Wheee finally found my actual kindle - I assume it was because I had a kindle I could read the books online - a couple of books I can only read from the Amazon site that is from the list of books purchased by date but cannot read them just transferred to the kindle online site - need to play with it but wondering if I plug in the actual kindle if that will make a difference - a couple of the books I sent back for refund but a couple I just wanted to read and so I have to go through these hoops to read them -

I really need a new kindle but unlike you Frybabe I do not know what all this equipment and various reading web sites are all about - the one I have is forever old and would like the same thing but since I have quadruple the number of books and it would be nice to have a kindle where I can download all or at least have access to all of them - frybabe in the fall when I am ready to upgrade I may call on you for some guidance - trying to remember the name of what I have - does feather something ring a bell - I know it is not fire something.

Never had to return so many things to Amazon - took advantage of their prime days and ordered a few things that are out of the ordinary for me like clothing type things - a bra that was labeled the correct size but would fit a pygmy - from hook to hook laying flat it was all of 17" and supposed to be a size 36 and cotton sleep pants were supposed to be 100% cotton and they were 90% polyester and 10% silk - on and on it went and when I went to return them they said keep them and they would refund - I guess since this stuff in all made now in China it is cheaper for them if we toss them - have no clue who could fit into the bra - small than a high school student's measurements - now if I lived where there were many Asians maybe since many Asian women have a narrow frame.

Interesting I watched last night Sound and Fury - read it years ago and remember having similar thoughts at the time I read the book which was before  I visited Faulkner's place in Oxford that I bet was the prototype for the Compton's place - anyhow it starts off focused on Benji and that was my realization - I wonder what it was the caused so many to be born like Benji back even up to the time I was in High School - after that I do not remember seeing that many 'Benji' - they were mostly men - only remember seeing one female - some said it was because of in-breeding but never knew for sure nor what their disability was called - I wondered if detecting the condition of a fetus before birth and the ability to abort has something to do with the disappearance of the Benji's of the world or at least in the south - when I lived up north do not remember ever seeing a Benji - either they had places to place them away from society or maybe it was inbreeding. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23515 on: July 27, 2023, 06:13:11 PM »
Barb, my paperwhite was a gen. 7 (2015). I remember that some of the newer books would not download to it because they were set up for the newer generations. In the Manage Your Content and Devices section of your Amazon account, you can go to the "Deliver or Remove from Device" button and choose which devices you want your book to download to. I don't use that very often because it seems most or all of my Kindle books show up in my Library whether or not I have it downloaded.

My new Kindle is a wonder. It is fast and holds for times the Gigs I had on the old Paperwhite. If the book has a corresponding audiobook, it now allows me to listen as well as read. These are not just audiobooks you buy along with the eBook, but borrowed books that have audiobook links included. Whispersync is still available too. However, if I want to listen to an audiobook on my Kindle, I must pair it to my headphones like I did with my Kobo. It is not a feature I will likely use on the Kindle since I have several Fires.

I hope this is helpful, Barb. I was rather attached to my old Paperwhite and was sorry to see it go. Believe it or not, after all the reading I did on it, the battery was still very good.

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23516 on: July 27, 2023, 07:12:11 PM »
In the Manage Your Content and Devices section of your Amazon account, you can go to the "Deliver or Remove from Device" button and choose which devices you want your book to download to.

Frybabe, I did this and think I posted about it "somewhere", maybe not here in SL.  I have this old, original Kindle which has Lord knows how many books on it, and I thought when I bought my Kindle Fire HDX and set it up that everything would transfer.  Surprise, surprise. They did not.  However, I found that spot "Manage YourContent and Devices.  You can go there and (although it is a long, time consuming process) you can add all the books from the old Kindle, to your new one. Or, click "delete" if you don't wish to transfer them.  When they transfer over, they will be in the "cloud", maybe in "your library" also, but just clicking on the picture or title will make it work fine.  FYI, it took me several hours when I discovered this to transfer just 44 books, but I deleted a lot too.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23517 on: August 01, 2023, 07:39:40 AM »
Hola!  How is everybody this fine morning?

Something old, something new:

 I had an emall this morning from Blackwell's Bookshop  in the UK (because I bought one of their books not available here a month ago and signed up to get their notices) and it's on the new longlist for the Booker prize  and I hate to say the longlist is full of authors I never heard of, but you all read more fiction than I do.

But this one caught my eye:

From Man Booker Prize-shortlisted Tan Twan Eng, The House of Doors is a masterful novel of public morality and private truth a century ago. Based on real events it is a drama of love and betrayal under the shadow of Empire.

 I really like that you can read a couple of pages now of any book to see , hopefully, if it's something you might like. Assuming the author continues past the first couple of pages in the same way, some of them don't.


I thought the first couple of pages of this one was really different and interesting so I hesitate to say Bill Bryson and I are taking his second and last trip to England in the Little Dribbling book, hahaha and I'm really enjoying it it now more than I did, having devoured it in a flash when it came out. I like the nuances I now see in it.

I'm also very surprised to be enjoying...you'll roll your eyes....a book called Andy and Don, written by Don Knotts' ( I never know what to DO with that apostrophe after a singular noun ending in s to show the possessive)....brother in law about Andy Griffith and Don Knotts, (of Mayberry fame)... There's a lot of nostalgia now about the Mayberry series, and somebody gave it to my husband for Christmas and he read it and passed it on to me.

 It's actually very well written and enjoyable so far with a lot of surprising twists and revelations about the behind the scenes real people, and it's quite interesting...not in the scandal sheet negative category at all. So far. More of a here's the real person and interesting facts about each. So far. But they were complicated people as everybody is. And they were great personal friends whose friendship went back many years.

Comedians often are in person quite different from what we think we see. Thinking of the film and I think, book,  Bud and Lou, about Abbott and Costello, Abbott being the straight man ("Hey, Abbott!!") and Costello being the fat funny one but in real life they were the exact opposite.   Very sad in Costello's case.

Things are seldom what they seem, right?

I did finish Caesar's Anglogia and it's ablaze in scholarship. I really think the Cambridge Companion to Caesar's Writing which I also finished does a summation better but this is not a summation, and NOBODY had done the analysis like Garcea did and probably never will again. (I was somewhat gratified when a stellar light in Classics somewhat drolly did a book review gracefully stepping around the same issue).  Unless they find a copy of the original I don't think there's anything more one could say or cite,   but again it's hard to sum up, even for, apparently, academic book reviewers.

One can see I am still avoiding Sayers, and I have NO idea why Sayers intimidates me. It's of long standing. I think I need to bite the bullet and at least give her a chance, for Pete's sake, she's sitting right here waiting. As is the Bookseller of Florence, did any of you start that yet?

What ARE you  reading?

PS: I am being eaten up  by mosquitoes as I sit here writing. If they all carry malaria I'm dead.



Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23518 on: August 01, 2023, 05:09:10 PM »
Somewhere, on one forum or another, it was commented that "this/or that person" would not be going to see a movie "in a theatre".  So here I am in the "library" commenting "around" that.  My point finally being the movie "Oppenheimer".  I read where it is three (3) hours long.  Well, I can't sit for three hours without a pottybreak.
Would I be well-served to read "American Prometheus" instead?  Has anyone here read that and if so, would I be bored to tears, or find it incredibly interesting?
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23519 on: August 01, 2023, 05:20:30 PM »
I think somewhere I detailed the horrific problem when our City services were hacked, and this included our library system (one of the last services to be reinstated, by the way).  We were unable to reserve books on line, and in-library was old style by hand check out.  At any rate, if you had books in your reserve list, which most people have dozens (I had quite a few) and they are all just now being pulled to come in and check them out.
Needless to say, my "many" selections are all arriving at practically one time.  Two yesterday, two today and I've lost count of how many others I had on reserve.  I have also about six books that I checked out from browsing the shelves, so my reading stack is getting to seem unmanageable. 

Ginny, you mentioned the movie 2001 Space Odessey, and I got that from my Netflix DVD by Mail before they close up shop next month.  I watched it today and couldn't make hide nor hair of it, especially the ending.
I felt the HAL 9000 computer was scary taking over the systems.  Should exacerbate anyone's fear of AI.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois