Author Topic: The Library  (Read 2081693 times)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23680 on: December 28, 2023, 02:20:19 AM »
Pat your receiving a book in the Murderbot series reminds me of a piece I read in the news - there was supposed to have been a worker in the manufacture of an electric car that was badly injured by a robot that turned on him... If true another example of fantasy like Buck Rogers in comic books coming true... had no idea how much these electric vehicles are using robots for their manufacture till I looked it up and learned Volvo uses 1300 robots and even Tesla uses them for the large jobs more dangerous for humans, and so the book series may be considered a fantasy but in today's world it may just be a prologue to tomorrow.   

What a gift and glow you must feel to have had family over to celebrate... and fix dinner...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23681 on: December 28, 2023, 03:52:58 AM »
Barb, you're assuming too much about my abilities. My daughter Suzanne and son in law Kevin were the hosts.  I couldn't pull something like that off any more.  My role was to show up and enjoy, and give a few modest presents.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23682 on: December 28, 2023, 08:05:23 AM »
ah so...  :)
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23683 on: December 31, 2023, 06:18:22 PM »
I did not know this!

“Since her death in 1979, the woman who discovered what the universe is made of has not so much as received a memorial plaque. Her newspaper obituaries do not mention her greatest discovery. […] Every high school student knows that Isaac Newton discovered gravity, that Charles Darwin discovered evolution, and that Albert Einstein discovered the relativity of time. But when it comes to the composition of our universe, the textbooks simply say that the most abundant atom in the universe is hydrogen. And no one ever wonders how we know.”
— 

Jeremy Knowles, discussing the complete lack of recognition Cecilia Payne gets, even today, for her revolutionary discovery.

ABOUT CECILIA PAYNE.

"Cecilia Payne’s mother refused to spend money on her college education, so she won a scholarship to Cambridge.

Cecilia Payne completed her studies, but Cambridge wouldn’t give her a degree because at that time there's not much exposure for woman, so she said to heck with that and moved to the United States to work at Harvard.

Cecilia Payne was the first person ever to earn a Ph.D. in astronomy from Radcliffe College, with what Otto Strauve called “the most brilliant Ph.D. thesis ever written in astronomy.”

Not only did Cecilia Payne discover what the universe is made of, she also discovered what the sun is made of (Henry Norris Russell, a fellow astronomer, is usually given credit for discovering that the sun’s composition is different from the Earth’s, but he came to his conclusions four years later than Payne—after telling her not to publish).

Cecilia Payne is the reason we know basically anything about variable stars (stars whose brightness as seen from earth fluctuates). Literally every other study on variable stars is based on her work.

Cecilia Payne was the first woman to be promoted to full professor from within Harvard, and is often credited with breaking the glass ceiling for women in the Harvard science department and in astronomy, as well as inspiring entire generations of women to take up science."

I looked on Amazon and several books about her life and books about her work with stars but NOTHING about her discovering what either the earth or the sun is made of...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23684 on: December 31, 2023, 06:34:38 PM »
Wow! I didn't know that either.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23685 on: December 31, 2023, 06:42:44 PM »
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23686 on: January 01, 2024, 07:51:23 AM »
Speaking of women who got the short end of the stick, I just started listening to Pandora's Jar: Women in the Greek Myths by Natalie Haynes. Has anyone read it? It is about how women generally either maligned or ignored in Greek mythology. How men are often the instigators of, but take or are assigned no  responsibility for the predicaments in which women find themselves. It is an interesting and entertaining perspective and almost makes me want to reread Oedipus Rex, a play I disliked.

Barb, I just reread your post about the Moses Controversy, I haven't looked at it yet, but on a somewhat related note, I have been following, off and on, the University of Kentucky's 20 year and counting project to virtually pry apart the papyrus rolls found in Herculaneum a while back. 

several short videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3zI9SVJsqc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_L1oN8y7Bs a timeline



BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23687 on: January 01, 2024, 01:54:40 PM »
Goodness we could spend hours and hours with all the links provided on that second link you provided frybabe - this ancient window is an eye opener on several levels - Tempted by but I've so much on my plate - I'm guessing Great Courses must have a way to monitor what we post because all of a sudden out of the blue I get an email telling me about a course all about Ancient Writing and the History of the Alphabet So far that is the take away for me on the Moses Controversy -

The big learning curve was to learn how many well respected scholars disagree with each other on basic issues like setting historical events in one agreed upon time frame. It reminded me of that tale about the 20 blind men describing an elephant - each describes what they can feel and no two are touching the same area of the elephant.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

ginny

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Re: Escape
« Reply #23688 on: January 02, 2024, 07:22:04 AM »
Happy New Year, Everybody!!

:) Frybabe, Pat, and Barbara on the tree. It actually looks pretty good here on the 9th Day of Christmas and provided a very happy memory of its recreation. Still I'm happy I did take a photo of it on the ground as nobody believes me. hahaha

I'm SO enjoying my little enforced Reading Break and I hope I can continue it. Am now deep in the Poirot mysteries but he's not Miss Marple, I need to start reading her individual books now, I've finished the short stories, on Miss Marple. Christie herself thought her Miss Marple stories were the apex of her writing and I agree.

Any New Year's Resolutions? As a new participant in  PT World, I am finding small changes mean a lot. This morning I read what I think is a super article in  "4 simple daily health resolutions that matter more than you think, " and I really like the one about standing up every hour and doing something for one minute. And the Gratitude one, too. https://currently.att.yahoo.com/lifestyle/4-simple-daily-health-resolutions-100026007.html

Who can't do one of those? I'm about to put it to the test.

I'm afraid my ventures into the world of Sci Fi yesterday did not prove salubrious. Tiring of Poirot, I picked up  Robot Stories or whatever it's called, the editor has a PhD in one of the sciences,  and I love robot stories ordinarily but was turned off and taken aback  in a big way by the first story about a robot whose thinking unfortunately we're privy to, and he  hates his human master, that's how it starts, he's viewing the human sleeping,  and really the compressed unspoken hatred really got to me as it went on, planning to kill the guy as he sleeps....forget it. (He didn't, apparently the robot ended up loving him or some such thing...it was the repressed violence and sexuality which I really CAN do without).  I was surprised, frankly, where is Asimov and Bradbury nowadays when you need them? Hated ...the writing...the plot....awful. Second one just as bad.  Threw the book to one side, literally. Don't need it. 

Lately the "world is too much with us..." for my taste. Kind of like the glittering extravaganzas of the film world during the Depression, Esther Williams,  the musical reviews, was there somebody alled Bugsby Berkley? Surely not.  Escape escape.

Back to Miss Marple who makes everything all right: the perfect escape read.  I'll try the books on her next, thankfully there are several.  Joan Hickson is absolutely perfect in her film parts, too. These films are free on Youtube, by the way. They are old but super.




BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23689 on: January 02, 2024, 08:47:38 AM »
hmm yes, also like the one of standing up every hour and doing something - it would be great to have a wrist watch that goes off every hour wouldn't' it...

ah yes, as much as I like Poirot I too love Miss Marple - the countryside and cozy cottages are part of her sleuthing where as if Poirot does venture into the countryside it is a large Country Estate, nice but nothing like a comfy chair pulled up in front of a fireplace with roses climbing along the front garden fence.

Of all things for breakfast - all of a sudden with all the great meals the past week I just wanted a melted cheese sandwich and that is what I fixed on toast melting it in the microwave - now for a cup of coffee and I've made my morning...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23690 on: January 02, 2024, 10:05:18 AM »
huh interesting

Though we often associate negative emotions with tears, a good cry carries with it myriad benefits, from boosting your mood to prompting empathy in the people around you. A recent study uncovered another pro to tears, and it could help explain the biological purpose of crying.

The study, published last month, involved having a group of men sniff either saline or women’s tears, and then participate in a computer game that measured their aggression levels. The men who got the tears showed a 43% reduction in aggression when compared to those who had saline, indicating that tears contain an anti-aggression compound.

“The reduction in aggression was impressive to us,” co-author Noam Sobel told The Guardian. “Whatever is in tears actually lowers aggression.”

Though the researchers only used women’s tears, they don’t think gender plays a role in the aggression-reducing effects — all human tears likely have the substance, and it may be related to our time as infants. “Babies can’t say: ‘Stop being aggressive towards me.’ They are very limited in their ability to communicate,” Sobel explained, adding, “They have a vested interest in lowering aggression.”
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23691 on: January 02, 2024, 12:31:52 PM »
Well, now there is a challenge - find Ginny some good robot short stories. I doubt I would care for that one either, Ginny. Aside from Asimov's I, Robot series, which I downloaded a few months ago to reread, there are some rather funny old classic short stories that I have or had. I will have to go research it this afternoon.

Ginny, if you want to read something a little longer than a short story, you might want to try All Systems Red which PatH got for Christmas. It is the first of series which follows corporate security soldier who, after nearly being killed, undergoes extensive reconstruction. While going through his reconstruction and rehabilitation he becomes addicted to TV and movies, but most particularly to soap operas. Oddly, they seem to be helping him reconnect to his human side (my take). "Murderbot" is his nickname for himself.

How strange, Barb. You'd have to be very, very close to smell tears is my thought. Don't know how that would stop or lower aggression in someone else.

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23692 on: January 08, 2024, 06:22:27 AM »
My mini-review of Pandora's Jar by Natalie Haynes.

I thought the author/narrator brought up a lot of interesting thoughts/incites about how women were treated in the mythological stories. As narrator, she conveyed a rather strident, indignant attitude. She did well narrating her own work (not all authors can pull off reading their own works), but at times the indignant, almost angry, attitude sometimes got a little much. It did not stop me from listening though. Natalie Haynes did a great job of researching the various versions by other authors contemporary with or before Homer as well as later.  The ancients not always dumped the blame on these women. Attitudes towards women show up in later interpretations of the stories. Well worth the read/listen.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23693 on: January 08, 2024, 02:19:57 PM »
Thanks for your assessment frybabe - I found her page and another that looks interesting is... Divine Might: Goddesses in Greek Myth

As far as we have come since so many of my experiences in the 1950s forward well into through the 60s and most of the 70s where I experienced over and over blatant issues as a women, I can still see so much that is still an issue - this is not the place but I could go on and on about this whole issue of Birth control as if it is a women's issue - for some yes, and that is where it gets difficult but, even in the church it was always spoken of as if the women was in control when just as often she was manipulated offered love that is/was not really there or another enticement - when do all these ethic's teachers or those speaking from the pulpit put as much time as they do condemning women into 'if not condemning' at least teaching men how to use their power and how it affects those without equal power -

That is what I see missing and still see is missing - those in power speak or write seldom if ever speak tons about how to use rather than miss-use power compared to the tons spoken or written about women's so called choice that often was not a choice but being convinced she was loved or she wants it as much and therefore, as a modern women she is independent and can throw caution to the wind - probably because the entices don't see they have born and bred in a power position that today, too many women want to believe they have reached a state of equality and don't want to accept otherwise - You would think with men taking over women's sports women would wake up but again, no women want's to admit she is being tooled around by men's power to manipulate for what they want.

Even women now who have power don't always use it to uplift but rather to get what they want when they want it - and so like anyone who realizes their position, and with thousands of years being victimized, knee jerk is to re-create what has been comfortable which is to go into the mentality of a second class person and like all second class people chained to the history of the situation you do not tap into power but rather pull and rattle the chains holding you captive and so I can see her being strident, indignant - she is not comfortable being in power since it also means being more powerful than other second class women and full circle to my own viewpoint that teaching how to use power, not necessarily even replacing power with humility or being humble or even the idea of being fair which is skipping right over how to acknowledge with out feeling attacked that your own power, accepting it and learning how to use it and seeing so much in life as 'not' a woman's issue and not just pretend equality, but rather often a power play.

I think the concept of men becoming as involved as they have been in the care of and raising of their babies and not just helping but being involved in the daily cooking and cleaning of a home was going to do it - I don't see it - yes, it is better for women who are now equally working outside the home but it has not made better, respectful, more compassionate, more well rounded children who unfortunately know how to play one parent against the other and still, there is not a continuous bombardment of how to use power for either men or women and so each falls back into their historical role.

Few women plant their two feet on the ground, thinking and feeling they own themselves and the spot they occupy - those few who do have no clue they are seeing themselves outside the norm of most women and this is the problem for most men who own themselves and are brought up from childhood learning how to protect what they own where as, most women are still brought up learning not to make waves...be the best so you can be accepted and some even learn how to use their second class position to their own benefit.   

Wow - Ok got me started... I'm sure we all have our viewpoint on the issue of power, men and women - well onward...

I've been taking a break with all the curiosity recent books and movies had stirred up and started yesterday something light - Bookish People by Susan Coll - woman in her 50s owns an independent and hires mostly college grads but some who were out of high school that love books and reading - the story is mostly character driven so far - the owner is feeling like a fish out of water as these young employees ask her to join them in various parties I'm sure their effort to cheer her up since she recently lost her husband who had been a big part of the book store... and so we shall see what the purpose of all this is as I continue to read - yes, it is a light read as I call them chit chat books...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23694 on: January 11, 2024, 06:56:58 AM »
The listen that has my attention this week is Adam Hamdy's The Other Side of Night. It doesn't get great reviews, but it doesn't seem too bad to me. Sadly, I read a few of the reviews after I started reading it which kind of spoiled the suspense a bit. I'm glad I didn't read the review spoiler before I started. Otherwise, I might not had started it. It is basically a murder mystery/suspense/psychological thriller, but is slowly morphing into something more. I like this clip of the author's comments about the poems in the book. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRCOFIpslTY

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23695 on: January 12, 2024, 09:41:46 AM »
As a result of reading The Other Side of Night, I am looking into the various theories of time starting with this long article:  https://iep.utm.edu/time/  A version of the Growing Block-Time Theory is used in the book. Here is a good YouTube clip about the theory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3jQle27tZQ

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23696 on: January 12, 2024, 01:58:13 PM »
Ha your going forward in time frybabe and I'm going back - Read today in Nice News how history has had some added information because of a dig in Italy - Seems the Roman world did not lickity split go from venerating gods to a Christian World as all we read about Constantine suggests.  The article linked to this page that explains the entire story of how it was a gradual change - The walls of a temple for Constantine's favorite pre-Christian god family is found which evidently was part of an agreement made by Constantine that a festival to a still revered God could be attended if the city built a temple to Constantine's favorite god family...  evidently information now says it took a hundred or more years for Christianity to be the accepted norm.

https://www.slu.edu/news/2024/january/imperial-cult-temple-ruins.php
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23697 on: January 13, 2024, 11:54:02 AM »
Ah, well, it's a good thing I never took much to Constantine and the Byzantines. I think it had to do something with not liking that the Roman Empire was not ruled from Rome at that point. To me the "real" Roman Empire more or less fell apart and the Eastern bunch just kind of usurped the Roman Empire moniker. In fact, I missed a lot of the early years between 430AD and the rise of the medieval period. I am only now catching up. That is a great find, Barb. Since Christianity wasn't made the official state religion until 70 years after Constantine's death, I guess there wasn't a super great amount of pressure on pagans to convert. Not to mention those folks that still wanted to hedge their afterlife bets.

I suspect that converting to Christianity had become an economic advantage over staying pagan at some point considering the forced conversions and discriminatory practices against non-conformers once a state religion imposes its will on its subjects.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23698 on: January 13, 2024, 01:45:08 PM »
Never thought of conversion being a possible economic benefit - all I ever heard was that Constantine in the year 400 something AD converted and with his conversion the entire Italian peninsula became Christian - now some of my early research may be up in the air - one thing still left to explain then is that there was a major fire in Rome that started in the Jewish section and from all I could read not only where the Jews blamed but there was a Jewish symbol on Constantine's flag that had been removed after they were blamed as the cause and it was the first I found of the hatred for Jews in Europe and the start of the often quoted belief that it was the Jews who Killed Jesus -

Part of me wants to think this scenario was not affected by the slow acceptance of Christianity in Roman controlled land because the Christians were still called Jews who followed Jesus till about 200AD  and I've not found anything that could have made a significant change till Constantine -

Jerome who translated the Bible into Latin lived about the same time as Constantine as did and in Milan there was Bishop Ambrose who influenced St. Augustine whose work is studied to this day in secular philosophy classes. Ambrose did live in the 300 AD time frame but I read nothing that indicated he had influenced the thinking in Rome and then finally, St. Augustine was born in the mid 300s and easily overlaps Constantine however he uses Jerome's Latin translation for his work -

Again, I found nothing that shows any thoughts about Jews from Jerome, Ambrose or Augustine which make me think at this point the Jews may have been more a political and economic burr in the saddle of many in Rome rather than a religious issue that only when trying to squash them did religion enter the fray...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23699 on: January 13, 2024, 04:41:09 PM »
Happy New Year 2024!! 

It's been a bit since I last posted, but I have loved checking in from time to time to see what everyone has been reading.  Barb, Frybabe, PatH., Ginny, Joanne, it seems you all have been keeping the light on in here and I am glad to see it. 

Life has taken a few turns in my family in the past few years, I am now a great grandmother (Nonnie) as our little Prince Charming Haze calls me and I never knew I could experience so much joy after being a mother and grandmother.  He is the light of our entire family's life. I bought a book at our newly opened used bookstore about the many hats people wear.  I used pictures I had taken from time to time of our immediate family members and used this child's book placing the pictures and names on each page so he could relate and learn to their faces while he is read to.  His Mama, my granddaughter a college graduate in early childhood learning, needless to say reads to him constantly.  She told me I was her biggest influence growing up with reading and the love of teaching small children.  I am shamelessly grinning to be paid such a high compliment from her.  So, I am thrilled our next generation will know the love of books! 

Okay, enough about me.

Pat H., what a sweet gift to be given a book from your grandson.  Isn't it such a beautiful feeling when someone knows you love reading and the type of books you like. 

Barb, thank you my dear friend for keeping in touch with me through your emails and cards.  I cherish our conversations and oh, how you always astound me with your choices of reading, and this... "Part of me wants to think this scenario was not affected by the slow acceptance of Christianity in Roman controlled land because the Christians were still called Jews who followed Jesus till about 200AD and I've not found anything that could have made a significant change till Constantine -"  I have been in a deep dive Bible study since our churches were closed due to Covid and I am learning so much I had never thought possible.  Still teaching religion classes to 3rd & 4th graders and I can say it's a whole new teaching style.

Frybabe"As a result of reading The Other Side of Night, I am looking into the various theories of time"  this is interesting, aren't we questioning so much more these days?  I'm not so sure we will ever have all the answers to the questions but isn't it fun delving in and trying to learn more.

Ginny, thank you for the article on healthy steps that take only minutes but can have a large impact on our health.  I especially have to remember to get up and move once I am nice and warm on my couch with my blanket, dog, computer and books.  I take care of the snuggly with the pet so I could check that off, I keep floss in my sofa couch drawer and both bathrooms and in my purse so flossing is checked off (my hubby thinks I am OCD for flossing), and expressing gratitude especially for the little things in life is high on my daily lists since I recently lost my younger sister Oct. 30th, and the very next day Oct. 31st, I lost my best friend/confidant sister in law.  Every day I wake up and go to bed, and in between I am thanking God and my family and friends for being there for me.  I will be sharing your article.

Tomereader,   "I'm basically reading  (mysteries/police procedurals/spy-type stuff)on my Kindle.  Although, I have 6 hardcovers checked out from the library"   I am impressed!!!  I wish I could be as diligent as you with my reading.  I have slowed down immensely and hope to get back into reading more physical books rather than digital this year.  The article about how young children reading from devices versus physical books is spot on as far as I am concerned.  I went to look for the article and was distracted miserable by ads and other articles before I could even get to the article.  And we wonder why our children are being diagnosed with ADHA. 

I am currently reading Sarah's Key by Tatiana De Rosnay.  It is an historical fiction about a ten-year-old girl named Sarah who was taken with her mother and father to a concentration camp.  Sarah locked her three-year-old brother in their secret hiding place a closet before they left thinking she would be returning in a very short time.  The book goes back and forth from 1942 - 2002.  Not sure if I am going to finish this book because it's very difficult to keep up with all the characters.  Ginny, is it you or our dear late Ella, who first gave us permission by saying, "Go ahead and give up on a book and sling it across the room if it's just not enjoyable?"  I just know it's how I am beginning to feel about this book.

Anyway, I have gone on way too long, and my hubby is waiting to go out to dinner on this blustery day, here in Toledo, Ohio, so I must rush off.  I wish you all a very happy & healthy New Year and look forward to participating more and hearing about your choices of books and shared articles. 

Ciao~  Bellamarie
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23700 on: January 13, 2024, 05:41:30 PM »
Oh Bellamarie, I was just thinking about you the other day, and wondering where you had gone.  So good to see you back, and look forward to your great comments about books, reading, etc.  Welcome Back, with big Hugs.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23701 on: January 13, 2024, 08:43:28 PM »
Tra la - another voice that helps fill up the room - wonderful, glad Bellamarie you are here sharing your news and your experiences reading...

I remember reading Sarah's Key and it was not an easy read - I think that was the last book I read that had anything to do with the holocaust - After reading one of these books I would be upset for days and of course part of us puts ourselves and our family mentally in similar circumstances and finally I decided enough -

I can appreciate there are thousands and probably millions who were not born yet when this was going on and their only reference are these books written about the times - but having been a young teen when the newspapers told us of these camps and we saw in the movie theater the news that included panning those being liberated in the camps and then the plethora of books that followed with the stories of individual experiences and then, the finding of Mengele's grave in Brazil - oh yes and reading daily the Nuremberg trials and then coming to terms with all that happened by reading Hannah Arendt and as a result realizing those who can, will - which added to The History a Novel by the Italian author Elsa Morante who does include how German soldiers with no nearby officers directing their behavior were brutal and cruel to those in the Italian countryside as she said because they could -

And no, I'm not Jewish where I have to live with this memory day in and day out and so I had decided enough. I also realized we had been given the gift of Joy and to not grow Joy in our lives and within our family is denying that gift and so I'm back to my love of learning something new and then my curiosity kicks in, which to me is a joyful attribute and so, more reading to dig further into whatever captured my fancy.

Which by the way remembering Elsa Morante and I was always going to read her book that received so much acclaim years ago, La Storia - looked it up and cannot find an English version however, did find translated into English, Lies and Sorcery and put it in my saved for later cart.

Tomereader are you ready for the ice storm heading our way? Let's hope the electricity does not leave us like in February of 2021 - I think that is all that is on people's mind who were here during those awful 3 days - I do have my clay pots ready this time so I can at least keep my kitchen warm and I invested in a couple of camp lanterns so I can at least read if the electricity goes... How about you - are you ready?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23702 on: January 13, 2024, 11:47:14 PM »
Barb, tell me about the clay pots and keeping the kitchen warm!  I don't think I know about that!
 It is pretty cold here already.  The wind has died down a bit from earlier.  I have my faucets dripping, cabinet doors open.  I did a load of wash, sweat suits and warm sleeping clothes, since I'm really anxious about the plumbing to the washer.  That was where the pipe froze in '21 and ruined the laundry room and ran all the way through the garage to outdoors.  It could've been worse, but it was bad enough for me and expensive too. 
I have a set of FrostGuard covers for the car's windshield and the side mirrors. Sure nice to have, but I've only had to use them twice, this will make 3 times.  My daughter gave them to me since my garage is like Fibber McGee's closet, and can't keep the car in there.
Everybody, please be safe, be careful and like I told a friend on-line, there has been a plethora of cases of flu and some Covid in the outlying areas.  My daughter has several friends who have been laid low by the flu.  One of them had flu and Covid. I have been masking for a couple of weeks now since reading about new Covid strain spreading.  And, I've had my flu shot, but why take the chance.  The mask is an easy thing to do and protects me and you!
Good luck with staying warm and keeping the pipes warm!
Joanne
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23703 on: January 14, 2024, 08:29:04 AM »
Bellamarie, what a delight to find your post this morning. Great to have you back again.

Barb, I've been thinking about other reasons for a huge surge in conversions to Christianity. There were still probably plenty of "closet Christians" who only "came out" when Christianity became the official state religion.  And then there are the "lemmings", the ones who just follow the leader whatever whim or reason. Conformity and acceptance had/has a big influence on people, especially the young, I think. Found this quick student reference and refresher on conformity  https://helpfulprofessor.com/conformity-examples/ I don't recall the term "informational conformity" during my studies in college. I wonder if it was created to address the influences of the digital age and social media.

Sarah's Key. I have had that book on my shelf for years and have yet to read it. It is sitting right beside Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet which I bought about the same time and suffers the same neglect.

bellamarie

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23704 on: January 14, 2024, 01:59:13 PM »
Thank you all for the warm welcome back.  I've missed you all.  Life goes in so many different directions you just only have time for so much and some things as I am sure you all have experienced goes to the wayside.  What better time to get back into reading and sharing our books and thoughts than on blustery winter days? 

Speaking of which, Barb and Joanne how are you holding up in Texas?  I can't wait to hear about the clay pot method to keep your kitchen warm.  Our temp at 7:00 a.m. here in Toledo, Ohio read 4 degrees, feels like -17 due to high winds.  We have a couple more days like this and then we get back in the 20s & 30s Yippee!! 

Gosh, you don't know how better I feel hearing I am not the only one who has neglected Sarah's Key.  I did read the summary at one of the sites and lo and behold Julia the person researching Sarah ends up finding family and guess what I have been doing for nearly a year now...yep, searching for my Italian ancestors.  My younger sister Sonta, who I mentioned died this past October had found a woman named Valerie on the Italian genealogy Facebook site.  Valerie was interested in our plight since she too had gone through a similar situation years ago searching for her family.  She agreed to use all her resources and contacts internationally, and state side to help. My sister continued to go in and out of the hospital so she asked me if I would be willing to work with Valerie.  I agreed to since I had done a DNA years ago with Ancestry.com and had begun a family tree, searching as best as I could with very little information to go on. 

My paternal Italian grandparents migrated in and around 1905-1907, my grandfather would have been sixteen years old, and my grandmother was seven years old.  They were supposedly naturalized citizens of the United States which on the last U.S. census it shows them as aliens.  Our last name had so many different spellings no one living knew the correct biological legal spelling.  Long story short, just before my sister went in the hospital for what we did not know would be her last time, Valerie had learned my grandparents did NOT get married in Italy, did not come over together on a ship, and did not become naturalized citizens, they didn't even know each other when they individually came over and went directly to Montreal, Quebec, Canada to live, where they met years later, married and came to the United States around 1921. Sadly, the love story of two young Italians married in Italy, boarded a ship together to come to the United States for a better life for their children has been debunked.     
 
Valerie found the birth records of my grandparents through her contacts in Italy and discovered our true last name and the places each grandparent was born and raised in Italy.  I had put together a packet to take with me to visit my sister along with my laptop to show her the many documents we uncovered in our search expecting we would sit and share this together, but needless to say, she died before we could set a date to visit.  So, for Christmas I made copies of the packet I had printed out that were vital facts, certificates, marriage licenses, baptismal records, census, ship manifests, etc., and sent this to each of my siblings and explained to them how Sonta and I had been working with Valerie and how it was our gift to pass to them, a mystery solved and a comfort of knowing our true last name.  I know Sonta winked at me from heaven and said, "Job well done, thank you for doing this with me."  I plan to make copies and give one to each of my children. I asked my siblings to do the same for their children.  Our grandfather was known as Joseph Patterfritz, and my grandmother was known as Carmella Dopposi.  Their legal birth names are: Giuseppeantonio Pettofrezza and Carmela D'Apice, no middle names for either of them.  So beautiful don't you think? 

Oh, and one last bit of interesting information, Valerie lives in California and was a screen writer for none other than Francis Ford Coppola. She shared pictures of her at his house at family functions and the office she and the other writers worked in.  We have become dear friends and plan to continue our search for other family members.  She is certain I have Pettofrezza family in Canada still and hopes to bring us together some day.  I can only hope this would happen.  I've seen a few pictures of men with this last name on Facebook and it is as if I am staring into my own father's eyes.  The Pettofrezza eyes are undeniable, I see them even in my great grandson.  My sons were very skeptical of Valerie when I first told them of her and I working together, and they asked if she is charging me anything.  I said, "No, she has never mentioned or hinted to expect payment, she said others helped her years ago and she wanted to pay it forward.  She told me ours is the most fascinating and difficult research she has come across and her intuitive writer's mind had to be involved."  She is in her sixties, single and is an equestrian trainer, and has had clients from well-known elite families in Hollywood.  I plan to surprise her with a nice silk scarf with prints of horses on it to show my appreciation.  I only wish I could see her face when she opens it.     

Needless to say, it might be meant for me to finish Sarah's Key in honor of my ancestors. 

Barb, you seem to have sparked some real interest on this Christianity topic, I am so very intrigued, I spent wee hours of the night for the past two Saturdays delving into podcasts and articles by theologian scholars about the Book of Revelations as to when and how that became canon and accepted into the Bible.  Another rabbit hole I find myself into, as if ancestry isn't difficult enough.  Joanne, Frybabe, Barb anyone have any thoughts or knowledge to share on this?   Is it Dr. Suess who wrote a book called, Oh the Places You'll Go?

Okay, y'all have a warm and wonderful Sunday, and if you go out, please be safe.
Ciao~ Bellamarie 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23705 on: January 14, 2024, 03:10:21 PM »
OK Clay pots - flowerpots - several ways of doing this - the one that I remember having seen a few years ago and is still not being debunked by those whose knowledge of I guess physics say this or that cannot do what we hoped - the one that I have not seen anyone debunk is --- 2 flower pots - one larger than the other - turn upside down - either have a long - really long screw with a washer holding both together by placing the screw in the holes at the bottom of the pots - screwing the pots together with the washer on the outside and then using a nut on the inside - and then putting one nut after the other till the entire screw is filled with nuts - if I can find it I will share the you tube

then you have to put the flowerpots on some sort of stand or use a couple of firebricks or something - the you tube shows using the wrought iron stand for a fondue pot - put something to raise the pots and sit them on - upside down - and then a votive candle under the pots warms them and radiates the heat

Cannot find but saw this with instead of a long screw just plug the hole on the inside smaller pot and then leave the hole in the larger pot as is... I've also seen the 2 pots sitting on a rack from the oven which is just high enough to get the necessary air to the candle

Tomereader - my son just left and those who work for him use their personal vehicles - not so much tonight but tomorrow and Tuesday night we will be in the Teens - I know those in the north think that is nothing but then they have not been set up for 106 to 110 for weeks on end either - anyhow the vehicles are left out and where mirrors and windshields are worth covering what they all do is get a large blanket or quilt and throw that over the front hood where the engine is located - we are not expecting ice but I think you are and so if it were me I'd throw a blanket or a couple of thick beach towels and then slice open a couple of plastic garbage sacks and see if there was a way to anchor them on top of the blanket or beach towels - I'm thinking even a couple of heavy rocks on top would at least hold the top but to figure out how you could tie the sides of the plastic to something on your vehicle.

Here the big concern in the neighborhood chat room is the thousands and thousands of dollars after the February 2021 freeze with the freezing of the sprinkler system pipes - some have been able to drain them - I've all the connections well covered but we could not drain them - at least they are not on a timer and hopefully if the water in them freezes by not turning them on for a couple of weeks the water can unfreeze and not cause the pipes to burst - we shall see what we shall see as Lucia would say in Mapp and Lucia  - We are also hoping the septic lines are deep enough - mine are about 17 inches deep and so we think they should be OK.

So many sharing tips they learned from the 2021 freeze - I was surprised how many have their plumbing pipes running through their attic and so all the insulation in rolls is sold out in the local Home Depot as folks are further insulating their attics with some planning on opening the attic access to get heat up there.

Like you Joanne I too ran a couple of loads of laundry last night - and where I need a few things from the grocery I can do with what I have rather than loading up and loosing all the food if the electricity does go...

We should all be OK as long as we have electricity - if the electricity goes that is when we have the problems - all the electric companies that operate in the Houston area, of which there are over 70, get their electricity from CenterPoint Holding and they have issued a statement saying they are well equipped to handle the overload for this current cold front - my direct Electric company is Reliant but, like all the others the source for Reliant is CenterPoint  - I do have gas logs and so I can at least keep that room fairly comfortable and with a clay pot heat source in the kitchen and a votive light under a stand I can heat a cup of water - oh just thought need to cover a couple of the front bushes like the gardenias - at least they are in front which is the south side of the house...

Just thought those who live north have to do this kind of thing all the time or maybe they do it in the late fall for the entire winter... and then all those heavy jackets and hats - in comparison once every couple of years is not half so bad...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23706 on: January 14, 2024, 04:09:52 PM »
P.S. forgot yes, frybabe you have a good point about closet Christians and lemmings - over the years the part of the Catholic Church that is political in nature and governs, as at one time it seemed the governed most of Europe - they would want to keep historical stories alive that like in all politics adds to their viewpoint.

Interesting how all that got started - of all places found it when I was researching the early Germanic Tribes - forgot now the name of the Tribe how selected their leader from a family that was supposed to be able to make crops grow by just walking in the fields - all was well for hundreds of years till a new leader came along who wanted to usurp the role of King from those who in this magical family had grown as they say in politics 'fat and lazy' - since he was not endowed with the reputation of making crops grow he needed something to one up this family of kings and chose to announce the Pope would crown him - at the time the Pope did carry a lot of weight and so on the strength of the Pope crowning him he was able to take over and from then on any leader crowned king was crowned by the Pope and of course like in all politics there was a way that the Pope had power to influence and that was arranged by being in charge of all communication - seems few to no kings in the day could read and for one kingdom to communicate with another runners share verbatim the words  - well then since each of these kingdoms whose king was crowned by the Pope had someone appointed by the Pope left as part of the King's entourage he was charged with writing and reading all communication - yep looking at it from our educated eyes today - foot in the door and then the Kings were loyal since it was because of the Pope they were even in power.

At the time of all this research I don't remember the titles of all the books I read to track down this time in History - but like usual when I get into a topic that has my attention there are at least a dozen and probably more - another thing I did learn that when Rome had its downturn there was nothing left of what today we would call services like garbage removal and road repair however, the Vatican area where the Pope lived was in good condition and functioning well and so, the people of Rome asked the church to extend the services to their areas in and around Rome. At the time the Vatican was a huge land area larger than most sections of Rome that from all I read each section were defined either by 'religious' groups or economic groups - religious in that a section would be a community of people who built alters and places to hold festivals to a certain God so that the God of Abraham was just one more God that a group coalesced into a community or section. at any rate the Vatican became the governing body for all of Rome because - tongue and cheek here - they could remove garbage and repair roads...

Bits and pieces in that I wondered why those who lived away from Rome and did not share the Roman Gods as their life source were called Barbarians - never did find a satisfactory answer however learned a few things about some of the early, I guess we would call them nation tribes - anyhow learned that the Visigoths were the first to have a written constitution even before Rome - 

Learning through that movie I watched and spoke of a couple of weeks ago or at least over a week ago that caves and stones in the desert have inscribed words created after Hieroglyphics so that the first written letters seem to be identified that could be read by a current Jewish rabbi. I can't help wonder how the written word made its way into the northern areas of Europe where the Visigoths first lived till they migrated finally to Iberia. And why do we have a plethora of Roman text where as there was very little till more recent research into the written documents from any of the Barbarian tribes...

Surprise to me was learning before the Saxons migrated to Britain, while still occupying land in northern Europe there was a Saxon Bible written and that was how we started the idea of Jesus born in a stable - the Bible up till that time was written in Southern climates and the story was Jesus was born in a cave but the idea of a cave made no sense in northern Europe and so it was changed to a stable or a place for animals that was often a 3 sided shelter. There were other changes but that is the only one I remember from all that research - the Saxon bible was written sometime between 450 and 650 which coincides with the time the Saxons were on the move joining the Anglos into Britain and so 'my' thinking is it was written while the greater portion of Saxons were still living in northern Europe - which would be closer to the 450 date - and that is only a little more than 100 years after Jerome translated the Bible into Latin. 

However the the large point - why was the Saxon version of the Bible not as valued as the Latin versions - maybe there was more Latin understood by more people - but then is that the cart before the horse and if the so called Barbarians had a translated Bible was it not made popular because of a lack of Roman ordained priests???  I don't know but curious - was Rome that full of itself that anything not touched by the Roman language 'Latin' or Roman culture was less than and therefore labeled barbarian? 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Tomereader1

  • Posts: 1868
Re: The Library
« Reply #23707 on: January 14, 2024, 08:55:42 PM »
Ladies, I read "Sarah's Key" and later on my f2f book club chose it.  It was very sad, but I liked the book, and saw the movie too.  It received good response from Book Club members.  I guess folk who are tired (not the right word) of reading about WWII, would not be terribly interested in it.   I saw nothing in it that would encourage me to "throw the book across the room".

It is very cold here, I don't know the actual or feels like temperature, but I couldn't begin to tell you how many layers of clothing I have on!  There is a set of ladies thermal underwear involved, which I recently bought off Amazon, at a good price, and they were within the parameters of the materials I can safely wear; mostly cotton with a bit of polyester, but NO spandex.  For me cotton has to have at least a bit of something else or they shrink so much, what once was medium, turns out extra small, LOL.

We are to conserve energy use tomorrow from 6:00 to 10:00 to stay within the guidelines of our "grid".  As for me, I will be deep in the covers from 6 to 10, then start my day.

Anyway, do stay warm and safe!
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23708 on: January 14, 2024, 10:15:23 PM »
A bit late for me to be checking in here, so I will keep it short.

Tome, Sarah's Key was made into a movie? I didn't know that.

Barb, I read a history some years ago that mentioned that barbarian simply meant foreigner, stranger. I have no clue if it was meant as a derogatory remark or was just a simple descriptive at that time.  The word has Greek origins. If you didn't speak Greek, you were a barbarian.  Apparently, the Greeks thought anyone who didn't speak Greek was less well educated. It pretty much stayed the same, but over the years it started to include crude behavior and violent of nature. All this reminds me of another word, ferengi. You may recall that as applied to a business=oriented group on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. I ran across the word Ferenghi while reading one of my books about Northern India and the Central Asian countries above it. It meant something similar to barbarian. There is speculation that the word came about because of contact or knowledge of the Franks. So, any white person from the lands to the west were called ferenghi, a corruption. perhaps, of westerners becalled Franks.

Well, I think I drained my brain for the evening. Sweet dreams all!

bellamarie

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23709 on: January 15, 2024, 11:56:14 AM »
So, Sarah's Key is a movie as well!  Thank you for sharing this bit of information Tomereader.  I can see why they would feel it is movie worthy.  I picked it back up yesterday while snuggled in my blankets on the couch and am happy to say I am now a third of the way into it.  I won't be throwing it across the room, but I might want to throw Bertrand across the room!! I've decided to give it the respect of finishing it in spite of the long-drawn-out time it has taken me to finally settle into it. As my friend Valerie has shared with me, the Italians were considered the dirt of the earth in America as they migrated, so no, war is not enjoyable, and innocent people live through some desperate times due to very bad decisions out of their control, but in spite of it they have their dignity and respect and if they are able they pull themselves up and out of situations and make the best of their lives remaining in their country or migrated country.  I can't wait to see where Sarah lands.

The great thing about being a person who reads all genres of books is we can hate one book, fall in love with characters, places, and events and decide to shelf a book for later and realize there is a time and season for what is for us to read.  As always, I enjoy the inspiration and insight each of you bring to this wonderful group of book lovers. 

Still freezing temps here today in Ohio, so I will cuddle up and read, but I must silence my iPhone or the constant interruptions will distract me enough to go to the device rather the book.  Y'all stay warm & safe!

Ciao~ Bellamarie
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23710 on: January 15, 2024, 02:20:18 PM »
thanks frybabe - and so your information is we have changed the tone or altered the meaning of the word Barbarian -

aha I may have stumbled onto part of my answer as to why the Saxon Bible was not as popular or that we have so few bits of the written word from Northern Europe - Seems the language used for writing were Runes and only after the Roman Latin was re-introduced which some sites say 600 and some say between 400 and 600 do we have stories, documents etc which is the time the Saxons migrated to Britain but this re-introduction of Latin could be why the Bible already translated into Latin with the word Vulgata meaning 'the common tongue' and another site explains that Rome, Pope Gregory did not send missionaries to the Anglos and the Saxons already in Britain till 597 starting in Kent probably because king, Æthelberht, had a Christian Frankish wife named Bertha, despite being a pagan himself.

I thought I was finished with this time in history and now new questions bring about new sorting out the who, when and how of the time.

Our coldest night is tonight and already I can feel the cold settling in - Joanne I'm in awe that you have thermal anything - because where I can, so far, keep the top of me warm it is my legs and thighs that I'm having a difficult time keeping warm - Trying to avoid staying under the blankets and quilts because that was how I stayed warm during the February 2021 3-day-no-electricity storm and those memories still bring a chill right through me. I think we just have to get through today - tomorrow will be as cold but the sun is supposed to be with us and that alone makes everything more cheery and therefore more bearable. Did not know they made Sarah's Key into a movie - a couple of those scenes would have been difficult to watch especially her going back and finding her brother still in the closet... How do you live with something like that... even if as a child forced to make these awful decisions - the horror of it all... 

Bellamarie I wonder if you have read La Storia: Five Centuries of the Italian American Experience by Jerre Mangione - if not it may be something to look into and do you read Italian because if you do a few of Elsa Morante's most acclaimed books are not translated into English including her La Storia.

Not much solace if you have family memory because of your heritage but when I was a kid it was still the Irish - some of the first signs I could read on my own before I even started school were the signs that said No Irish or No Irish served here or Irish use the backdoor - that one usually said Women and Irish the back or side door. And when I was a kid if you were walking on the sidewalk and a Jewish person was coming the other way they had to get off the sidewalk and walk in the gutter - and of course always the Mexicans - most of that changed with WWII but then after the war it was a different group but always the Mexicans till sometime in the 80s -

Well one good thing about all this cold is - it is dead quiet with no traffic and no one working at nearby establishments - and unfortunately I see no birds or squirrels - reminds me of an old cloth bound book published in the very late nineteenth century I have somewhere from back when we lived in Kentucky - Not sure of the title but something Redbird or Kentucky Redbird - written by a Governor of the state back in the 1800s and all about a redbird during a winter storm and how it survived and what branch and what bush - wasn't a long story but enough to make a book and it had human's who looked out windows onto the snow covered land and would discuss the adventures of being a bird surviving a storm in a rather matter of fact way.

hmm looking out windows reminds me of living in Austin that was across from a steep hill on the back of the school grounds and how every few years when we had snow that usually fell during the night - in the middle of the night I'd hear the whoops of joy as kids from all over the neighborhood were out on the hill sleigh-riding but few to any had a sleigh - it was garbage can lids and plastic laundry baskets and pieces of cardboard even Mom's roasting pans - of course there would be no school the next day so they were enjoying to the fullest snow at 3: and 4: in the morning - fun, fun...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Tomereader1

  • Posts: 1868
Re: The Library
« Reply #23711 on: January 15, 2024, 05:33:26 PM »
"Sarah's Key" starred Kristin Scott Thomas, who is such a divine actress.  This movie may have been made in French, I know Scott-Thomas speaks French.  Or it could have been English, and just had segments where French was spoken.  I will double-check to see if I have my brain on straight about the movie, who was in it, etc.
Sun has been shining brightly, melted most of the limited snow, but where it melted, it is freezing over, so don't try walking on places that seem melted.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23712 on: January 15, 2024, 11:44:03 PM »
Yes, Indeed.  Sarah's Key was released in 2010, starring Kristin Scott-Thomas. It was in English, but I remember that a lot of French was spoken.  Several additional actors were basically French or other nationalities.  I didn't recognize any of their names.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23713 on: January 16, 2024, 03:12:40 AM »
Wow thanks for sharing this - Can't help believing you would not want to watch this movie unless you are prepared for some tough scenes or maybe they softened them somehow - I guess with stories like this made into a movie I'm thinking it means to get attention today you have to really show the horrors or else it is dismissed -

They say you become desensitized watching immorality and its consequence to innocents when it is shown over and over as it has been since the horrors of WWII when visual media became prolific and at the beck and call of even young children - I think of my sister and I terrified seeing Snow White when it first came to the movie theater in the 1930s - we used to hide in my mother's arms during the scary parts and we cried so loud terrified when the green faced witch came with the apple Mom had to take us into the lobby of the theater to calm us down and now kids as young as 2 and 3 watch the movie glued to the story without a spark of fear... To this day I have to change or shut off a movie when I suspect danger is coming - some I go back and watch but many that is it and never finish watching. 

I wonder how Bellamarie is doing reading the book during this history making cold front... 

How about you Joanne are you bundled up doing any reading or just trying to get through this cold? 

This whole awareness of the written language of Northern Europe being runes has all my interest - downloaded a book that goes into the history of writing from the hieroglyphics on - the book has to be dated since some of the early writing they are giving credit to those who came later and the book is not talking about more recent archeology finds that were featured in the documentary I watched however, it does have a chapter about Runes and yes, as I thought, they are used for divination - since I'm not into attempting to divine the future I always skipped anything that talked of Runes except if it came up in a myth and then it was just mentioned

Well interesting, learning, unlike Latin and Greek, Runes was the language of the people and where they were a means of communication the letters or words were/are thought to be magical and believed to hold the power to heal, influence fate, protect against malevolent forces, divine the future and are symbols for various chants that control supernatural forces. Wow - to think words and letters were given that much esteem and power regardless if we do not believe in magic - thinking on it, some use words to say and accomplish similar magic through agreement and so, where runes just were without anyone having to explain or agree - they just were considered magic - and all this magical use of Runes was actually secondary to their being a form of communication.

I'm fascinated by all this since John I in the Bible says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Reading this proclamation all these years my imagination was limited to what I know and thought the Bible was the word of God and therefore... and now that I have been made aware that words in the written form came after they were in a picture form the history of letters and words is tied into this belief that God and Words are interchangeable at least in the Jewish Christian tradition. But does that mean if God is the Word does it mean the only way God was activated was after we had an alphabet that could write words - what about Hieroglyphics that used picture art to communicate or Runes that are closer to picture forms than letters or what about the symbols carved into the Aztec and Mayan pyramids in Mexico, Central and South America.

I'm thinking I may be wading into deep waters here but it appears to me at this point the history of communication is tied hand and glove to the history of God and where then do multiple gods fit into all this. Were they condemned in order for the majority to embrace a single God just as the Barbarians were condemned as ill mannered, uneducated, brutes whose main purpose for living was war. Well I can see the handwriting on the wall here - my next read is going to have to be Pope Benedict, now the most revered theologian of the twentieth century who has a book I Believe in One God - glory only knows where this will take me but it is what it is...  Bottom line no science has been able to explain what existed before the 'Big Bang' and yet, the agreement is there was a force that caused the Big Bang and like many I choose to believe this force is God and the word and God are one according to the Bible that over and over folks try to debunk but more and more archeological digs prove otherwise. 

OK caveat - We each have our own belief system and this is a library discussion about books and now I see a connection that may be my curiosity that is not shared by any of you - Again,  we all have our belief system and out of reading I just happen to land on new questions - learning about this aspect of reading and writing is just awesome - never occurred to me that using only 26 letters libraries with millions of books and millions of ideas became a reality using only 26 letters - some languages do use a few more letters however if the book is translated it is made readable to those language using only 26 letters. And now I see those 26 letters as being the word of God - Holy Hannah...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23714 on: January 16, 2024, 01:24:53 PM »
Well, I have finished Sarah's Key and so happy I did!!  Like the saying goes, "You can't judge a book by its cover", I now realize I can't give up on a book by the first few chapters. 

Tome, Kristin-Scott Thomas is also one of my very favorite actresses, so I will be checking out this movie. Just to clarify, when I say, "Throw the book across the room." I personally am meaning, I am frustrated and ready to give up on it.   

Barb, "They say you become desensitized watching immorality and its consequence to innocents when it is shown over and over as it has been since the horrors of WWII when visual media became prolific and at the beck and call of even young children"

I agree wholeheartedly how this is true with young children who have not yet experienced enough of life to understand the real effects of the horrors they are watching.  I think we as adults all have our limits to what horror we choose to want to watch.  I, like you, hide my face at scenes that I know I do not want imprinted on my mind for days to follow after seeing it, but my compassion for what any war has done to the human heart gives me the ability to want to learn and experience those times I was not aware of due to not being born, or not having been taught about it. 

I love this particular review of Sarah's Key, "Beautiful, painful, compelling.  At times I didn't want to read on, but I couldn't stop.  A lyrical lesson in how the human spirit still shines through the shadowed shames of history," __Beth Harbison, author of Shoe Addicts Anonymous

As a child born in 1952, I grew up in a small rural town of Monroe, Michigan sandwiched between Detroit Michigan and Toledo Ohio, I was not allowed to go out of my yard to play with children on my road because we owned acres of land, not your typical suburban neighborhood, so I was raised a sheltered life.  I had NO idea what racism was nor meant until the riots in Detroit during the summer of 1967.  I remember seeing them on the TV and feeling very confused and afraid.  I did not have access to any libraries as a child, so books were scare to find in our home. Our schools did not teach anything that I remember about the Holocaust, so the first book I recall reading about war was in my Senior year of High School in my English Lit class, it was on the atomic bomb being dropped on Hiroshima Nagasaki.  I read that book from front to back and when we had question and answers on the chapters assigned, I raised my hand to answer so often the teacher said to the class, "I know Marie knows the answer so let's see who else can answer it." No one would answer, so he would call on me to tell the class.

Because of this book club I have not only opened myself up to different genres of reading, and have become more educated from being able to discuss topics we have tackled in the past such as war, aging, religion, diseases, poetry, etc.  When I read The Book Thief, I could relate to young Liesel Meminger's thirst for books.  Kristen Hannah's book The Nightengale opened my eyes to what risks women were willing to take to save human lives regardless of which country they were fighting for or against.  So many more books I could mention, but my point is we are fortunate to have access to book clubs and books, unlike those in The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society.  Can we get burned out on reading too many of the same genre, I think so, but will we continue to read them, I think so.

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Oh, Barb, I do love how you are willing to place your feet into a puddle of murky water and ask and provoke tough topics.  I'll be pondering your last post.  But first I want to savor the remaining feelings from Sarah's Key.  Julia and William...hmmm

Still freezing here in Ohio, and not an end in sight until the end of next week.  So, off to begin another book.

Ciao~ Bellamarie



     
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23715 on: January 16, 2024, 04:26:23 PM »
aha - yes those like yourself Bellamarie born later after these awful events took place would of course benefit by reading what happened and how people handled their personal experience - to easy to forgot - but I do that - my kids laugh because I'm forever saying things like,  Oh you remember when Aunt so and so or Grandmas did this or that and of course I'm assuming they were there fully 20 years or more before they were born

Well update tomereader I'm thinking the worst is over for you but maybe not -

Houston was closed today - when sun came up the big melt started - ice melting off roofs all morning - and by early afternoon the last reaches of ice covered lawns under the shade of trees on the north side of our homes was melting as well - noticed this afternoon kids coming out to run around - no school today in the entire area all the way down to Galveston including the Colleges all dispensed with classes - most major retail stores did not open till 10: and smaller businesses closed for the day - therefore less traffic with fewer vehicles banging into each other - no one knows how to drive in this stuff and those who have recently moved here from the north take their life in their hands because there is always someone who thinks they can manage or feels they need to get somewhere and of course they end up banging into a driver who cannot understand how the driver could be so inadequate.

The trees are so stressed from last summer's drought and so the cold wind last night blew down a couple of large limbs and many smaller branch bundles - I'll have a backyard to clean up after it warms up for a day or two but other than that I stayed warm and will have soup again for supper -

The more I'm reading about Runes the more impressed I have become and can see the similarity to the quote in John I - I'm beginning to wonder if what we label Pagan was simply stepping stones to the beliefs of the great religions today -

Wow can feel the chill creeping in - need to do a few things before the sun is gone...


“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4144
Re: The Library
« Reply #23716 on: January 16, 2024, 06:26:08 PM »
I'll never forget the first time I comprehended the scripture, John 1 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

About forty years ago, I joined my church Bible study and our deacon realized I was troubled with the scripture after I had read it aloud.
(Keep in mind I was baptized a Catholic but had never attended Catechism classes, had not made my First Communion, Reconciliation or Confirmation as a child, our parish priest would come to our house to make sure my mother was teaching us our prayers.  My father was killed in a train wreck when I was barely 3 yrs. old leaving my mother with seven small children, an unfinished tiny house he was in the process of building from beg, borrow or steal material, and it had no inside plumbing which meant we used an outhouse or a pot.)  Makes me wonder if that is where the saying "They don't have a pot to piss in." came from.  Any way...she did not have transportation to load seven kids up to take to church, so she sat with us on the couch and got out the family Bible and taught us from it.  Fast forward 30 years... 

I was at the Bible study and our deacon had me read John 1 1:1, and I read it and seemed confused.  He asked what confused me and I said, "I'm not understanding "the word".   He said, " The word is Jesus."  I said, but Jesus has not come yet, and he said, "Jesus is God, and God is Jesus and Jesus is the word."  Still confused he proceeded to explain how the incarnation of Jesus in the form of human flesh came to spread the word, which is God.  The lightbulb flashed and it became clear to me (personally and I am not asking anyone else to agree or see it my way) I realized, the oneness of God the father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, three in one, the Blessed Trinity! "The word" in essence is Jesus/God/Spirit and not of the literal sense as a string of letters forming a word. 

When you continue on with the next verses you see:
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

I am not a theologian, don't pretend to know scripture any more than the next person, have been in Bible studies for years, taught CCD classes grades Kinder bible - Confirmation for over 30 years, and I know faith is the key to understanding scripture.  I think we only grow more in our faith when we question, and search for more understanding.  God gave us the free will to question and knew we would.  God gave man the ability to use rocks, pencils, ink, crayons, etc., to form letters to read, write, draw pictures and use hieroglyphics to communicate his word in all languages.  Again... I am NOT asking anyone to believe as I do, and I respect all views.       

Okay gotta run, it's time for dinner.  You all stay warm & safe!!  Schools have been closed for two days now and was just announced tomorrow as well.  I don't see the children going back until possibly mid next week.  What a nice winter break for them.  I was in the school system for over 30 years, and I know what a treat this is for teachers as well. 

Ciao~ Bellamarie
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Tomereader1

  • Posts: 1868
Re: The Library
« Reply #23717 on: January 16, 2024, 09:53:34 PM »
Bellamarie, so glad you finished "Sarah's Key" and enjoyed it.  I always feel a sense of pride when a book I've recommended, or commented on someone else's reading or trying to read it encourages them to "try again".  I had that last year when our book club was reading "Hamnet".  I had started reading it before book group chose it, and couldn't get anywhere, wondering how it had garned so many positive reviews, etc. so I took it back to the library. Then book group chose it for our selection, and I started over, as I ALWAYS try to read whatever book is chosen (unlike some members who don't read a word of the selection, but come to meeting anyway). Several of them have learned a lot, and state that they're going to get the book and actually read it.  So, initially I had a difficult time with it, but was very moved by it, the story and the writing.  I also loved "The Book Thief"; read it through twice, and then again for when it was chosen for Book Club.
Book Club (as well as discussions like ours here) can bring out parts of a book that might not initially resonate with readers.  We have had some awesome moderators for any number of books during the years I have belonged.  FYI, two books at the end of last year (whose titles I shall not mention) were chosen for Club.  Both of those I would gladly have thrown against the wall!!  But politely I threw them in the return bin at the library, and skipped the meetings.  I want to make a small point, knowing some of you may not agree.  The quality of the writing and "subject matter" in much of the current publishing leave a great deal to be desired, even by an author you've read and enjoyed before. 
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

Tomereader1

  • Posts: 1868
Re: The Library
« Reply #23718 on: January 16, 2024, 10:48:42 PM »
Barb, it is supposed to be 40 here tomorrow.  I really need to do another load of clothes, so I hope they are right.  I just won't run the washing machine when the temp is freezing or below, called "tempting fate", yeah?  I don't think I could mentally handle another burst pipe.  We are to have a couple of days warmer, but nitetime temps still below freezing.  Hope you can get a warm-up where you are too.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #23719 on: January 17, 2024, 03:04:35 PM »
Well for a warmup it is sure taking its sweet time - the shadows are holding on to last night's ice far longer than yesterday... Yes, I hear the warmup is daytime with another cold blast this weekend although the prediction is not as severe.

Tra la found a wonderful way to stay toasty warm while watching TV... I do not have a pet but thought it was worth a try and it has proven to be grand... I ordered and it arrived yesterday a thermal dog crate pad that says it is self heating for cats and dogs - purchased the one that is for medium size animals 35" by 23". I was so cozy and warm sitting on this last night so that it warmed my sit down as well as my thighs so well I fell asleep on the sofa - it was so much better than adding another quilt that the cold air finds a way to sink through or if it is not folded a certain way it creates a wind tunnel directly to my sit down or legs - I could not have purchased a decent blanket of quilt for the $26 I spent on this pad and so if you are still needing a way to keep warm this has some real merit...

But with that had a real scare - 2 not one but 2 emails - one from Social Security and the other from Texas Attorney General's office telling me my Soc Sec was suspended because there was a breach and criminals have my number and were into my bank draining it for their illicit drug trade... each had an attachment to follow through - shoot and sheesh and any other 'word' haha that could reflect my astonishment plus only a couple of months ago someone using AI imitate perfectly my grandson with the story we have all heard how he was in trouble with the law tada tada tada - it was so well done had my son not walked in while this was going on and I'm trying to hand the phone so Cody could talk with his Dad and the AI Cody does not want to talk to his Dad and I should keep the whole thing secret - sheesh we don't have secrets in this family and thank god because we learned Cody was in class and and and - Paul just happening to walk in saved me from being caught - well that number kept calling me back several times a day for over 2 months - having seen the number I just never answered - it finally stopped with the New Year and now this... Called Soc. Sec who said they NEVER suspend and if they do notify me for any reason by email there will NEVER be a way to use an email for a return message - any email from S.S. is always going to show there is no return email address.  OK so I'm breathing again...

Earlier waiting for the call back from Soc Sec, which was a 40 minute wait they had so many calls lined up to answer, I decided I could wait with an antsy tummy or read - of course chose to read and oh lordy - like you said tomereader The quality of the writing and "subject matter" in much of the current publishing leave a great deal to be desired

Thank goodness it was a freebee from Amazon - New Beginnings on Whisling Island 2/3rds of a chapter all about the drama of her finding out using a pregnancy test if she is Pregnant - starting with her deciding to use a test she still had that starts with her rummaging through the under sink cabinet and then opening a drawer and having to go past hair dryer, curling iron, hair straightener and other hair products with explanations of why she owns each of those products, on and on to what the reader can quickly figure out without this attempt at Sherlock Holmes sleuthing and all the reasons she has her own built in closet and why she leaves her clothes strewn on the floor on and on that she of course will be pregnant - and then the attempt to tell her next door friend and all the by ways of their friendship explained as she crosses the lawn - oh oh oh - made me wonder if people send in manuscripts and Amazon gives them away free to have us test if the writer has anything to offer. After reading 2 chapters Soc Sec. called and where I cannot put this book in a return bin or even throw it, for sure it will go unread - should have guessed when even the title, ...Whisling Island seemed like a misspell

Thank goodness I have a copy of Judy Leigh, who always does a nice Chit Chat story. Had not read her The Highland Hens and so that will be today's quickly read... Her characters are fun and she knows how to balance fun with a serious tone enlarging on a message for usually older women.   

Himm sitting here and my knees are cold - rather than hiking up the heat and drying myself out further I think I will get my pet pad  :D
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe