Author Topic: The Library  (Read 2085954 times)

Steph

  • Posts: 7952
Re: The Library
« Reply #2400 on: September 04, 2010, 06:05:21 AM »

The Library



Our library cafe is open 24/7, the welcome mat is  always out.
Do come in from daily chores and spend some time with us.

We look forward to hearing from you, about you and the books you are enjoying (or not).


Let the book talk begin here!





I loved Costain and have read most if not all of his books.But there was a certain sort of affectation that some English writers have.. They throw in latin, or middle english.. Think of Dorothy Sayers and her mysteries..
Started a wonderful fiction history book.. Beverly Swerling?? This one is on New Amsterdam at the beginning. Since that is where my ancestors started in the US, I find it interesting and know the streets from my research. Fun
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: The Library
« Reply #2401 on: September 04, 2010, 10:07:58 AM »
 You are so right about 'classic issues', JEAN.  I am reading, slowly, Michael Grant's
"Readings in the Classical Historians".  Time and again I have noticed descriptions
that could have been written about contemporary people and events. Human nature
remains the same, for good and bad, obviously.  Only the tools and toys change.
 It's been fifty years or more since I read Costain, but "Black Rose" was one of
them. I loved his writing.
  Oh, yes, 'midden' was the garbage/offal dump.  The middle ages were pretty smelly.
And here's the definition of points you were looking for:  A ribbon or cord with a metal tag at the end, used to fasten clothing in the 16th and 17th centuries  If Mr. Costain set the book
in the 1200's, he may have been off the mark.  Still, I doubt it clothing had changed all that much.  Maybe the metal tag was new.  :)

  Me, too, JOANG. Fascinating, isn't it?  Part of my love affair with words.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: The Library
« Reply #2402 on: September 04, 2010, 12:23:46 PM »
MaryPage:  Yes, my grandmother had four years of Latin Greek and mathematics.  Maybe because her father had served on a school board in Illinois before his retirement to Alabama.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: The Library
« Reply #2403 on: September 04, 2010, 12:27:25 PM »
The news of the dreadful earthquake in New Zealand reminded me that I haven't seen any posts from our favorite Kiwi Carolyn for quite some time.  I hope she is safe and well.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

maryz

  • Posts: 2356
    • Z's World
Re: The Library
« Reply #2404 on: September 04, 2010, 12:34:02 PM »
Jackie, Carolyn has posted on Seniors & Friends in the Healthy Living discussion, #1169.
http://www.seniorsandfriends.org/index.php?topic=699.1140
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: The Library
« Reply #2405 on: September 04, 2010, 12:44:22 PM »
Thanks, Mary.  I'll check it out.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Library
« Reply #2406 on: September 04, 2010, 01:01:25 PM »
roshanarose- the book is "The Black Rose" by Thomas Costain.

MaryPage and Jackie - what would the years have been when your grandmothers were learning Greek? I know many of the early 19th century folks were taught Greek, but i'm not sure when that stopped. I had 2 yrs of Latin in high school and, even tho i poo-pooed it at the time, it does help w/ English and French, etc. Our local high school has a very big Latin Club, mostly because they love the teacher and she does great things w/ them. (Praise for teachers) A niece who was in school in the early 80's had 5 yrs of Latin in public school, so it isn't dead in south Jersey. .......... i think any one who is interested in the sciences are still encouraged to take Latin

Babi, thanks for the definition of "points" it sounded like something like that, but i didn't have a definition.............................jean

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Library
« Reply #2407 on: September 04, 2010, 02:09:43 PM »
On BookTV today, there is the very beginnning of the AmericanWritersMuseum.org and I filled out their survey.  Great idea.  Fill out their survey here:

http://americanwritersmuseum.org/

JoanK

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Re: The Library
« Reply #2408 on: September 04, 2010, 02:38:29 PM »
Interesting. I took their survey too. We'll see if I get a million requests for money.

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: The Library
« Reply #2409 on: September 04, 2010, 03:12:39 PM »
Mabel:  My grandmother, youngest of 13, was born in 1894.  Her father had retired from business and moved to Bay Minette, Alabama, touted as a nice place to retire.  The family had a farm.  One girl died in infancy and her only sister, 18 when she was born, had left home to study piano at the Chicago Conservatory of Music. The ten boys all attended college becoming professionals:  engineering, medicine, professorships, or businessmen.  She was quite a tomboy, trying  to keep up with her older brothers.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Library
« Reply #2410 on: September 04, 2010, 04:24:01 PM »
12 CHILDREN!?! 10 BOYS!?! .......just slit my throat, or reserve me a bed in the institution...............how did those mothers do it?........jean

PatH

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Re: The Library
« Reply #2411 on: September 04, 2010, 05:31:39 PM »
12 CHILDREN!?! 10 BOYS!?! .......just slit my throat, or reserve me a bed in the institution...............how did those mothers do it?........jean

Amen, Jean.  My mother was the oldest of 10, born over a span of 19 years, and she vowed she was never going to marry and have children.  Fortunately for JoanK and me, she relented.

She was born in 1895, and did indeed have to take Latin in high school.  She also had to study the parliamentary debates of Pitt vs. Fox.  Some things do get better.

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: The Library
« Reply #2412 on: September 04, 2010, 07:48:52 PM »
My grandmother's family had hired hands to help with the farm chores.  Also, family spinsters served as surrogate parents; they would travel from family to family, helping with childbirth, illnesses, or just another pair of hands.  When I was a young child my mother never washed or ironed our clothes, she had it done by African-American women even though my father's pay was modest.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

Steph

  • Posts: 7952
Re: The Library
« Reply #2413 on: September 05, 2010, 09:32:33 AM »
Actually my Mother did very little or no housework. We always had a maid and it was always the same person. She was only 14 with a brand new baby when she went to work for us. She managed to have at least five more, always bringing the littlest ones with her each day. She married quite late and I dont believe he was the father of any of them. She was a lovely lovely lady and when I married and had babies, I lived close by for a few years. She would come and stay with the boys when we had something important to go to in the day. I always laughed because Martha had a thing about clean and she would go through three or four outfits in the course of a day with the boys.. A lovely lovely woman. She and my Mom were so close.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

mabel1015j

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Re: The Library
« Reply #2414 on: September 05, 2010, 02:22:41 PM »
This is so ironic, i just came in from the patio where i was sitting to read a section on wome's history about the domestic life of 18th and 19th century women. The daily chores that women were responsible for - let alone the hoards of children they cared for - was just amazing. I used to ask my college students, "what did you do when you got up this morning?" If they said they "washed their face and brushed their teeth" we would then talk about how that would work if you lived in the 18th, 19th or first half of 20th century. Of course in those early yrs, pre-urbanization and industrialization, it meant carrying water from somewhere out side the house, having made some sort of material to use as a washcloth - carding, spinning, weaving, dying, and made soap, which is an awful, smelliy process, etc. etc. If they said they had breakfast - we'd have the same discussion - where did your oatmeal come from? where did your eggs and bacon come from? Those discussions took us back to planting and harvesting grain, taking care of chickens, pigs, beef; slaughtering, butchering, preserving, pickling, etc. etc. Of course, anyone of the lest means had a hired girl, and  hired hands and the more wealth they had the more servants they had helping them. Upper-class women did little of their own spinning and weaving and little actual chores, but they learned the proper way to present a table and to carve meats - women's job at the time.

Most middle class families thru WWII had gardeners, launderesses, housecleaners, etc. My best friend's grandmother and great-aunt, who lived next door to us, made their living by "taking in laundry," they had a dozen or so constant clients. They had the curtain stretchers, a professional "flat iron" that ironed a big section of a sheet or large cloth all at a time. They were always ironing.

Today i was reading a particular section on midwifery and the change at the beginning of the 19th century to men - doctors - being involved w/ childbirth. Before that it was almost a total woman's community that were in the room during childbirth. Friends, family members, female neighbors stopped by to chat, share stories of their own experiences, tell  jokes  and bawdy stories. By the end of the 19th century it was almost always, at least in towns and cities, just the doctor and the patient. And docs were often far less experienced than the midwife had been, also pregnancy became to be considered more as an "illness."

And i come in here and there you are talking about the same subjects.
Great minds.........................jean

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
Re: The Library
« Reply #2415 on: September 05, 2010, 02:34:58 PM »
Mabel, I agree with all you write but one tiny item:  it was not "through" World War II that the middle class had servants, it was up until World War II.  During the war itself, the men all went to war and the women headed for the factories.  Many folks did manage to hang on to a cook or a yardman or what have you, but usually only if they were overage.  I can well remember how upset everyone was to be losing their "help."

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Library
« Reply #2416 on: September 05, 2010, 02:45:35 PM »
Babi - do you have a site for a definition of medieval words, like "points?".

Good point MaryPage.................jean

marcie

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Re: The Library
« Reply #2417 on: September 05, 2010, 03:26:03 PM »
Mabel, there is a definition of "points" along similar lines as the one Babi found at http://www.renaissancetailor.com/research_vocabulary.htm#p. The Renaissance Tailor site has definitions of other clothing-related terms.

"Originally the metal tags on thongs of leather. By the 15th Century, the metal tags called aiguillettes and the thongs 'points'. Used on a garment by placing a corresponding row of eyelet holes in the garment and the garment to which it was to be attached, threading the points through the holes and tying the ends together."

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Library
« Reply #2418 on: September 05, 2010, 03:42:51 PM »
Thank you Marcie - Costain has many such words re: clothing. I've been trying to find them by searching sev'l different dictionary/encyclopedia sites, but that cumbersome and inefficient. I appreciate having this site to check first. I am having such fun w/ this book..............jean

joyous

  • Posts: 69
Re: The Library
« Reply #2419 on: September 05, 2010, 06:49:57 PM »

Re: women having 12 children.....
My very good friend and her husband has/had 12 children in this present time. She never had a maid, or any outside help, and managed to rear those 12 children with all having college degrees and good jobs (one is an anesthetist (sp),2 are school teachers,  etc.  She is a wonderful person, was our church organist for years in previous location. Her deceased husband was a high school teacher and coach. Whenever I need a "lift" I call on her.  She is a little younger than I am ----about 78, and an active quilter.
JOY

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: The Library
« Reply #2420 on: September 05, 2010, 07:45:56 PM »
WOW!
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

PatH

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Re: The Library
« Reply #2421 on: September 05, 2010, 07:54:56 PM »
Sometimes I get tired just thinking about what other people have done.

pedln

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  • SE Missouri
Re: The Library
« Reply #2422 on: September 05, 2010, 08:37:05 PM »
My grandparents had a "hired girl" and she slept with Grampa.  They lived in a very small town in Northern Wisconsin.  Grampa and his brother had had a store in another town -- Thorson Bros., but then the family moved north and Grampa was Postmaster.

On this particular occasion, Grampa was out of town and Grandma and the "hired girl" were "sitting" with someone who was ill.  The young girl was getting very tired, it was late, and Grandma told her to go to the house and sleep in Grandma's bed.  Well, Grampa came home earlier than was expected, and in the dark just crawled into bed.  The poor girl woke up in the morning, saw Grampa and cried and cried and cried.  Grandma assured her that no one would ever know, and it wasn't until they were dead and gone that I heard about it.

marcie

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Re: The Library
« Reply #2423 on: September 05, 2010, 09:39:47 PM »
What a story, Pedln! That is a good one  :D

Steph

  • Posts: 7952
Re: The Library
« Reply #2424 on: September 06, 2010, 06:08:07 AM »
Pedlin, Oh what a neat story. I can imagine the shock for both of them.
But I must say that in the deep south, hired help was common until the mid 60's.. I lived in South Carolina for almost two years and I remember all of the help on the buses with the children they cared for. All of my friends had someone who came in by the day and many had live ins. Several relatives even moved from one area to another and took their help with them.. Wages were tiny and I suspect social security non existant.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: The Library
« Reply #2425 on: September 06, 2010, 08:45:59 AM »
Not really, JEAN. If I find a word I don't understand I just type in the
word with 'definition', and maybe some other specification like time
period. It usually does the job. I can see where a good site would be
helpful when you're running into a lot of archaic words.

wow,indeed!, JACKIE. What I want to know is how they managed a college education for all those kids?!!
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

nlhome

  • Posts: 984
Re: The Library
« Reply #2426 on: September 06, 2010, 01:19:26 PM »
Oh, Pedlin, that story is really great - I hope someone is writing them down!

Steph

  • Posts: 7952
Re: The Library
« Reply #2427 on: September 07, 2010, 08:48:33 AM »
Seniorlearn hates me this morning. Keep not getting through or getting thrown off.. Boo.. Anyway.. we need a scribe.. As we mature( hoho) we have great stories.. Now for someone to decide what to save..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #2428 on: September 07, 2010, 09:08:32 AM »
I heard a great program on NPR this morning about the new book called Charlie Chan. It was an interview with the author, who is Chinese, is his last name Huang? He is a professor at Harvard and he read from the book. Turns out Charlie Chan of the movies was an actual person originally, a policeman in Hawaii, it's fascinating. Tiny little guy carried a bull whip. He talked about "yellow face," and it's non fiction.

The author said he had never heard of Charlie Chan when he  first bought two books on him at an estate sale and he was scared to death. He says the Chinese don't have estate sales and want nothing of the dead. It's fascinating. I have the book, it was recommended highly in another magazine, looks like I picked a winner, have any of you read it?

I just finished last night Porterhouse Blue. It was written in 1974.   I loved the PBS movie so I see the characters in it, especially Ian Richardson as the Master, and Skullion. PG Wodehouse said of it , "terrific, it's been light years since I read anything so original." Rave reviews. Alas it's dated PC wise, tho it's done in aid of showing a certain type:  a shame because the rest of the book is   hilarious, the book is better than the movie tho I would recommend the movie first. It's the first Tom Sharpe I have read, I am going to read others. It was hilarious, laugh out loud hilarious,  literate and strangely moving.  Shame about the PC thing; done in aid of showing a certain non PC stereotype, like Archie Bunker.

If you get to see the movie, that's Ian Richardson's son in the person of the obnoxious student with the parking fines.

What are you reading?


marcie

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Re: The Library
« Reply #2429 on: September 07, 2010, 10:54:06 AM »
Thanks, Ginny, for the captivating recommendations. I've requested both the Charlie Chan and Porterhouse Blue (book and video) from my library.

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: The Library
« Reply #2430 on: September 07, 2010, 12:15:52 PM »
Chan and the Porterhouse DVD on order; no book in the library catalog.

Just finished Molly Gloss' Hearts of Horses, a look back at the women who worked in non-traditional jobs in early 20th century Eastern Oregon.  Taming horses, not "breaking" them, was the aim of Martha Lessen, learning what not to do as she grew up the only female in her family of five brothers and widowed father.  Martha is big, as tall and sturdy as a man, but she is female to her core and she seems to have an understanding of horses that allows her to use their innate natures to persuade them to follow her lead.  Since many of the men who work on the ranches and farms have gone off the fight in WWI, Martha soon finds her days filled and her emotions engaged in the lives of the families she works with.  Four stars.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

PatH

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Re: The Library
« Reply #2431 on: September 07, 2010, 02:44:22 PM »
Jackie, have you read Gloss' "The Jump-off Creek", about a solo woman homesteading in eastern Oregon in the 1890s?  Gloss also wrote "The Dazzle of Day", science fiction, but also about homesteading via spaceship, and "Wild Life", which starts out as historical fiction about a feminist woman writer in a logging camp in the 1900s and morphs into semi-fantasy when the heroine, lost in the woods, is rescued by sasquatch and lives with them.

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: The Library
« Reply #2432 on: September 07, 2010, 03:10:48 PM »
Jump Off Creek was mentioned here a while ago and I read it then.  I've sought stories about pioneer women, especially in the west and northwest, so was excited to find Molly Gloss.  Somehow her name fell off my list so didn't read any of her others books until I read about Horses here.  Be sure that I will read every one of her books; I like the way she writes, her characters and sense of place are clearly delineated with just a few words but she knows the right words to use. 
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

PatH

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Re: The Library
« Reply #2433 on: September 07, 2010, 03:25:05 PM »
Jump-off and Horses are the best.

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Library
« Reply #2434 on: September 07, 2010, 09:33:45 PM »
Jackie, did you ever find the book Bold Spirit: Helba Estby's Forgotten Walk. I think you were on SN when i talked about it. It's a true story about a women who took up the challenge of a NY newspaper for a woman to walk across the country in the 1890's. After the 1893 depression they were in danger of losing their farm in Eastern Washington, so she and her dgt decided to do this, for which they could win $10,000. I won't tell you any more if you haven't read it, but it's a fascinating story.
Just as interesting is how the author found the story - it was meant to be told. Linda Hunt's husband was a judge of a Washington state essay contest about WAshington history. He was reading the essays while Linda was grading papers and he stopped her and said "You need to read this essay." A boy had written about his great (?) grandmother who was Helga Estby. Helga's dgts found her writings about her trip on yellow legal paper when they were cleaning out her estate. They knew little about it, she had never talked to them about it, because the community said she had left her children and gone off on this "fling." One of her children died while she was gone. So she was shunned for a while after she came back. Can you imagine? A man would have been praised for taking this dangerous trip in order to save the family farm.......she was ostracized, so she didn't talk about it.

Her dgts threw the papers way. Her DIL took them out of the trash and kept them.........so her grandson(?) had the notes to write his essay. Linda Hunt, took the story and investigated across the country, reading the newspapers of the towns they stopped in and dug out the details of the journey. There were some crises moments.......i won't spoil it for you, but i will say that they walked the r.r. tracks most of the time to the East. She took a gun and some changes of underwear and a little bit of food. They stopped and worked went they needed to have food or money. The suspense is if they get to NYC by the deadline and do they win the money?.

And i think you said you knew of the Dana Fuller Ross books, right? .....................jean

salan

  • Posts: 1093
Re: The Library
« Reply #2435 on: September 08, 2010, 05:32:44 AM »
Jackie--I agree with you about Heart of Horses.  I think I purchased it (our library didn't have it) after some one on this site highly recommended it.  Very well done and definitely worth reading!!
Sally

Steph

  • Posts: 7952
Re: The Library
« Reply #2436 on: September 08, 2010, 05:45:41 AM »
I read Heart of Horses a while ago. OK, but it did not impress me the way I thought it would. I do like books about women in the pioneer west. They were so brave in so many ways..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: The Library
« Reply #2437 on: September 08, 2010, 08:46:50 AM »
 Some interesting recommendations this morning.  I'm adding them to my long list.  ::)
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: The Library
« Reply #2438 on: September 08, 2010, 10:55:26 AM »
Jean:  Never heard of Dana Fuller Ross but I recognized the covers when I looked her up on FF.  A looong list of books!  Have you read them all?  When I was a kid 4th grade was California; we learned about the Indians, the missions, the Gold Rush, the Donner Party, etc. I read some historical fiction (Ramona). As a retiree moving to Oregon I have a whole new history to learn.  Oregon is like another country, its founders being strong mid-western stock, farmers, German, Scandanavian, Protestant.  California's Bay Area, its climate so like the Mediterrean, was home to the Italians, Portugese, the resident Mexicans, Catholic.  It was the misfits, the adventurers who came to California and the people were restless, not settled like those who chose fertile Oregon.  The stories I'm reading are based on real lives and events, like the coast walkers you mentioned.  Bold Spirit is now on my TRB list.  Thanks
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Library
« Reply #2439 on: September 08, 2010, 01:40:05 PM »
I just started Dana Fuller Ross's Wagons West series. Afriend gave me the first 2, "Missiouri" and "Nebraska". They are enjoyable, i question some of his historical facts, but they are fiction.........lol......there apears to be a mix up w/ 2 different authors w/ the AKA of DFR. Both wrote western historical fiction, but one died in the 1960's, if i remember correctly and the other one didn't start writing until the 80's, uuummmmhhhh, their lists of books appear to be mixed up by some websites, but i'm not too concerned about who wrote what, just if they are a good read..................jean