The Library

[kiwilady]

The Library Our library cafe is open 24/7, the welcome mat is  always out. Do come in from daily chores and spend some time with us. We look forward to hearing from you, about you and the books you are enjoying (or not). Let the book talk begin here!

Suggestion Box for Future Discussions

What next! Mark Twain also showed the plight of the American Indian will that be cut out too? I mean Injun Joe?( was that his name?)

I think there are some very ignorant people. They are probably not wide readers.

Carolyn

[rosemarykaye]

Hi all,

I just got back last night from Edinburgh (where I have no internet access) and have been madly catching up - what a lot of posts!

I am another one who cannot bear reality TV shows - I always feel I come across as snobbish when people ask me if I've seen such and such a programme and I've usually never heard of it, but really, life is short and I have better things to do with my time.  Apart from the total inanity of all that rubbish, I too hate the humiliation they involve.  I know people volunteer to participate, but they are often so dim that you can't help but feel that the TV producers are taking advantage of them.  It also now seems to be obligatory that the people will cry at some point - usually dragging up some issue about how their parents are to blame for them being fat, badly behaved, etc - again I don't mean to demean people's real issues, but you can't help but feel that they've been told to weep.

Frybabe, your arrangement sounds perfect  . 

I also don't like the violence in many children's programmes.  One I do like is "Arthur" (the one about the schoolboy, his family and friends - except they are all actually animals - it does actually work!), which seems to me to have values and still be funny.

Jean - do you get Francesca Simon's books about Horrid Henry?  My daughter loved those when she was a bit younger, and my friend's son of the same age also devoured them.  There is a whole series of them - Horrid Henry has a brother called Perfect Peter, and the books are just about his family life, his friends, etc.

I totally agree about censoring - we did go through a phase when our libraries removed all the Enid Blyton from the children's shelves because she wasn't a "good" writer - how dare they?  She may not be George Eliot but my generation loved her, just as my children's generation love Harry Potter - neither, in my opinion, is an example of style, but the plots are wonderful and as Cubfan has pointed out, they get children reading.  What is going to be next?  The removal of half the books on the adult shelves because they're not "good" enough?  I like reading the classics, but I also like reading lots of other things, many of which would fail the pc test.

When my children were small I used to help in their school library, which was rigidly divided into a 5-7 years area and a 8-11 area - I used to let children who wanted to borrow from the older area do so, and I was told to stop this by the Deputy Head - I was not happy!  Many children read "above" their so-called reading age, I would never deter them from reading anything (or at least not anything that could be found in a school library).  My elder daughter did a book review of The L-Shaped Room when she was in first year senior (aged 13) - I remember that she told me that the teacher had remarked that she would not have expected a 13 year old to be reading that - but she was a good teacher and Anna was given an "A" for the review (they were at a different school by then - the first one would probably have called in the social services).

Rants over for now!  Off to try to catch up on all the other pages,

Best wishes to everyone for 2011,

Rosemary

[kiwilady]

I loved Enid Blyton. Began reading her at age 6. I thought it was absolutely ridiculous when her books were removed from schools and public libraries. Her books are back in the library nowdays but few kids seem to read them.

Carolyn

[kiwilady]

It worries me that children today seem to prefer reading fantasy. Is the world so bad that fantasy is an escape or is it that TV programs for kids never show the real world.

Carolyn

[jane]

Though fantasy isn't something I read, I don't worry about children reading Harry Potter, the Twilight series, etc.  I'm a librarian and former English teacher, and agree with CubFan, and think whatever children are reading...yes, even comic books, is better than not reading at all.  I had an English teacher friend who had a theory that children read at a given level until they got bored and then would move up.  I recall so many students who'd never read a book they liked, so they told me. THAT is sad.  I recall one 9th grade boy (age 14 or so) who heard a book report in class on The Pearl by Steinbeck and waited around after class to ask how he'd go about finding a copy of the book. He'd never been to a library, didn't know how that worked and had never cared. Now he did.

I also had students (ages 13-17), mostly girl, who devoured R.L. Stine.  I'd never heard of the man...but his books flew off the library racks for some kids.  They're not "great literature," by any stretch of the imagination, but the kids knew how to use the library, where to find the books, and they loved them. That's good enough for this librarian.

School curricula may and should introduce students to great literature and great writers. We've all, I'm sure, had to read and, in some cases, endure/suffer through those "classics" and that's fine. That's what formal education is for, I think;  it's intended to introduce students to ideas and concepts and worlds they haven't learned about or experienced.  Leisure/recreational/personal  reading should be far more open.  Yes, I think some books may not be appropriate for students at certain ages of their lives, but that's the job of the parents of the child to decide and monitor for their child.  What other children are allowed should not be of concern.  

As a child/teen there was no money in my house for purchasing books, and comic books were not allowed. However, I was allowed to go to the public library and could borrow any book there and read it. That was the "rule." If it was in the public library, I could read it.  

jane

[Steph]

 I honestly believed that the Mark Twain censorship was a fairytale of some type. I cannot believe that someone will be allowed to change his words all these years later. The man should be ashamed. I remember when I was young, there was a whole series of shakespeare, but censored called Lambs version.. I couldnt figure out what Shakespeare was so famous for, until I read the real things. Wow.. The difference. Words are such powerful weapons and need to be used with care and responsibility, but You cannot censor the great ones..Sigh..

[Babi]

 I understand, JEAN, and you're right, of course. It's different when we know people well and understand why they act as they do.  The ones I was inclined to glare at were social contacts who repeated the offense once too often.

 MARYPAGE, I can only stand in awe of your determination. I'm trying to think of something I might put that much effort into now, but I'm coming up blank. On to victory, girl!
  I am now about to make a confession. I tried several times to read Plato's 'Republic'. I would muddle through the first four books with some glimmer of light, only to bog down completely with the fifth book. After several tries, and being by then a mature adult, I finally sat back, thought, and decided (oh, presumptuous one!) that it didn't make sense because it didn't make sense!

[pedln]

Jane, your experience with the boy who wanted to read The Pearl reminds me of Daniel Fader(?), Hooked on Books,  telling of the young boy in juvenile detention checking out The Scarlet Letter.  The teacher was concerned that it might be too difficult, but the boy said “It’s about the whore, isn’t it.  I want to read about the whore.”  It took him several months, but finish it he did, looking up in the dictionary the words he did not understand.

Years ago someone writing for School Library Journal referred to R.L. Stine as a “literary training bra for Stephen King.”

One of my happiest moments as a school librarian occurred in the bicycle shop. (I was long on riding, short on maintenance skills.)  My bike was getting new tires and bike computer. Eric, the manager, turned to one of the young lads working for him and said, “You’ll need to calibrate that.  If you don’t know how, here’s the manual with the instructions.”  And I thought, Eric, you wonderful man, you just made the strongest case for reading comprehension.

Must get off my soapbox, was going to post last night, but you all sent me searching for this Mark Twain censorhip bit.   New South Books

The author, an Auburn professor, says he doesn’t want Huckleberry Finn to just die out and not get read at all.  I agree with those who say if you don’t think it’s appropriate for younger students, then wait until high school or college when they are more mature, but leave the author's words alone.

[bellemere]

I am curious about, but lack the courage to read, some of the Young Adult fiction of the new genre: dystopia.  They takek place in a sci=fi future of a totalitarian government which orders the lives of its citeziens in horrible ways.  A whole series called the Uglies depicts a society where every girl who reaches age 13 is compelled to have plastic surgery on her face to make her conform the the ideal of beauty.  and another describes a state-run series of games with the participants are teens from 12 different parts of the country. they are placed in an arena, and before a crowed of citizens, must fight until all but one are dead. The winner is showered with material goods. (It is called The Hunger Game. Evidently the little gladiators are not fed during the contest which goes on for several days. Can this be for real? Seems like today's reality shows taken to the max.

[Frybabe]

I finished Kate Edward's new book, The Lake of Dreams, last night. It was an enjoyable read. I saw a few inconsistancies in the proof/review book I read. I hope most of them were cleaned up in the published version, just out this week. The author made use of letters she found in her searches to piece together an old hidden family history. Unfortunately, the author did not seem to change "speaking" style of the letters from the rest of the narrative. I would have liked to have seen a little more of the suffrage movement illuminated in the book, but these are minor points. Having been in the Finger Lakes area, I could imagine Lucy's movements to Elmira, and Rochester as well as envision the trip to one of the gorges/with waterfall (she mentioned Ithaca, so Treman State Park perhaps?). I am trying to remember if people were permitted to jump into the pool at the bottom of the waterfall at Treman. All in all it was a pleasant book, but I didn't feel the sense of tension and mystery that I believe the author intended. But then, I don't think I was in the mood to read this type of book just now. Let me know what you think, if you read it.

[CubFan]

I have to chime in on Huck Finn as much as memory allows.  My sophomore year of college - for one of my literature classes - my semester paper (which I do not have any more) was on the censorship of Huckleberry Finn and I remember his loudest/greatest critic was his wife. My instructor gave me to use as a reference a newly published book written by her husband, who I think was a professor at Northwestern University, on the censorship of Mark Twain. I think Huckleberry Finn still shows up nearly every year on the list of book challenges in the schools.

I personally think that any one who is old enough to read the book is old enough to understand both the time frame that the book represents and the cultural climate of Twain's generation. There are many titles that don't reflect the present PC standards but they provide a teaching moment/discussion points about the historical perspective of the times/author regarding attitudes towards minorities, women etc.  Besides, when it comes to "literature" the books should be left alone and not read until the reader is old enough to understand them. There is no reason to dumb down Shakespeare, Mark Twain or any one else so that the students are reading materials before they are old enough to deal with the issues. If they read "easy adaptations" then they think they have already read "the literature" and may miss forever the beauty of the original.

When I go back now and read some of the books that I read as a child and share them with my grandchildren, I find many attitudes that I do not agree with as an adult. My reading them did not cause me to think like the author or the book characters because I considered the books fiction and looked at them as adventures not as behavior guides.
 
Rant for the day.

Mary

[jane]

Mary...BRAVO!

[roshanarose]

Enjoyable entries.  If these are rants, rant on!

Bellemere:  How new IS Dystopian literature?  My favourite books as a young person were "Brave New World" and later "1984".  Your description of "The Hunger Games" reminds me of both of those combined.  It also reminds me of The Minotaur myth where Theseus slays the Minotaur in retaliation for the Athenian youths and maidens sent as sacrifice/tribute to King Minos each year. I think that what has  happened is that the title of 'Youth Fiction' that often encompasses Dystopian themes, merely cloaks with respectability the type of books that we were not supposed to read when we were younger, but often by sly means, did so anyway.   

[kiwilady]

I think there has to be a balance. Kids are fed fantasy from toddlerhood on TV. It has a ring of reality. There is the danger I think. Its very different from the sort of fantasy I read. I knew it was fantasy for sure. I can't really explain what I mean but I think kids need a dose of reality too.

Carolyn

[Gumtree]

There is no reason to dumb down Shakespeare, Mark Twain or any one else so that the students are reading materials before they are old enough to deal with the issues. If they read "easy adaptations" then they think they have already read "the literature" and may miss forever the beauty of the original.

CubFan I agree wholeheartedly. If youngsters read Shakespeare or anyone else before they can grasp all the implications then they just read over what they don't understand and take from the work whatever they can - but they're reading the real thing and that's what forms the basis for their future readings of those works.

Jane I hope the boy who wanted to read Steinbeck's The Pearl turned into a real reader. It's such a profound work - I'm tempted to take it down and gobble it up again... Steinbeck's prose is so real- long books or short books he's a winner.
 

[Steph]

Today is another of the half days at our library. Such a pain.. I like libraries that stay open all day and seven days a week. We do four full days, two half days and are closed on Sunday.. Boo.. That is when anyone who works needs to go, but the library is attached to the community college and that is their schedule.. Which is sort of surprising.. I went to a University, but do community colleges not work full time??

[ginny]

NPR has been FULL of the Mark Twain debate, every channel on Sirius pretty much,  which carries  a NPR type talk show has been interviewing everybody concerned, including the guy over the Mark Twain Museum, (didn't he attend one of our discussions? I think he did).

One of the callers made the point that in the case of the N word, the point was made with the first usage, it didn't take 219 uses. However another caller said shows you how far we've come. I don't know, personally, (and here again de gustibus) I never cared for Huck Finn or Tom Sawyer but I have read them, several times over the course of being in school. Do children really enjoy them? I never did.

I wanted to come in and thank those of you who have been using the Amazon links on our site to purchase books or things for the kindle, it's really made a difference this year, and actually the clicking  has paid for the website for another year, so it's a painless way to help out. Thank you!

[pedln]

I never cared for Huck Finn or Tom Sawyer but I have read them, several times over the course of being in school. Do children really enjoy them? I never did.

  Ginny

Norman Mailer wrote an NYT article back in 1984, about the 100th birthday of Huckleberry Finn.  He said he first read the book when he was about 11 years old and was disappointed with it. He had picked it up because he had read and liked Tom Sawyer, but in HF he didn't even like Tom.

Ginny, re: Amazon -- does SeniorLean get credit for ANYTHING purchased there, like kitchen appliances, etc. or is it only for book related items?

[Babi]

 Bellemere, I'm not familiar with the 'dystopia' genre, but from what
you posted it strikes me as an excellent way to highlight for young
adults some of the things wrong with today's world. It could help
change some messed-up priorities.

 FRYBABE, that would be a serious boner, IMO, using letters supposedly
from different people, but with no change in the tone or language. Very
flat effect, indeed.

My reading them did not cause me to think like the author...

 Exactly, MARY. How often, in our discussions, do we find ourselves
arguing with the author! Still, children are more inclined to accept
what they read as true. I was fortunate to have a Dad who loved reading
but warned me against believeing everything I read.

 CAROLYN, don't you think that 'ring of reality' in fantasy is simply
that the basic issues are usually the struggle between good and evil.
No matter how far-fetched the means, the motives are still the same.
Science fiction, of course, has always been a preview of things to
come.
 

[ginny]

Ginny, re: Amazon -- does SeniorLean get credit for ANYTHING purchased there, like kitchen appliances, etc. or is it only for book related items?

That's a good question, I'll check it out. My understanding is that it's anything that's not third party vendor, that is, anything in house. I know I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon, jsut got for instance a bread box,  let me inquire!

Pedln interesting on Norman Mailer, I didn't either.

[ginny]

It appears that's the case, Pedln. Here's what's excluded: Godiva chocolates,  and

 

* any product or service sold on a site linked to from the Amazon Site (e.g., a product or service listed through our “Product Ads” program or sold on a site linked to from a banner ad, sponsored link, or other link displayed on the Amazon Site);
    * any wireless service plan offered through the Amazon Site and not sold or fulfilled by us; or
    * any gift card that is not redeemable on the Amazon Site.

[Frybabe]

I feel the opposite from Norman Mailor, Pedln. I liked Huck Finn but didn't care for Tom Sawyer so much.

Babi, I was trying not to be too critical of the book. I wasn't really in the mood for that kind of story, but read it to get the review out of the way before classes start again next week. Then again, I was comparing it to Carol Goodman, whose writing, IMO, is outstanding even if I don't always care for the subject too much. I don't know if it was fair to Kim Edwards to make such a comparison, but the obvious venue similarities made it hard not to. There are a few nice twists to the story where I guessed wrong as to what direction the story would take next. I haven't read The Memory Keeper's Daughter so I can't compare it to her previous work.

Well, I guess I am not the only one. Here is Newsday's review of the book, and they said it so much better that I.

 http://www.newsday.com/lifestyle/books/the-lake-of-dreams-is-shallow-family-drama-1.2591098

[MaryPage]

"even if I don't always care for the subject too much"

That is a very important point, and one I had not really mused over previously.  Odd, since at 81 I have mused over just about everything to do with books.

Yet quite truly, some of us will love a book and be dumbfounded that others do not care for it, when it is most often the books that appeal to our own experiences and thought processes, or fantasies of how things would be in our own concept of a perfect existence that we enjoy most.

Of course!

So I am not required to read, or even faintly admire, books in which vampires or werewolves exist, no matter how well written or popular!

Quel relief!

[rosemarykaye]

Steph - I hate it when our library is closed.  It's not as though I don't have a gazillion books here to read - but I just like the comfort of knowing it's there, and also I am forever finding new things I want to borrow, look at, etc - having shelves full of unread books here does not, I'm afraid, stop me borrowing loads more, as my tastes change with the weather (only more often).

Our library hours have been cut and cut because our council is bankrupt.  The main library used to be open till 7pm Monday to Thursday and 5pm Friday and Saturday, but now it is only open to 7pm two nights a week.  It is also closed for numerous "extra" holidays - eg if the town has one day as a public holiday, the library automatically takes two - I presume the staff don't get paid for that day, or maybe it's just to save on heating?  The branch libraries almost all close at 1pm on Saturdays (ie the weekend - when most people want to borrow books) and none has ever been open on Sunday in my memory.  Some of the branches are only open certain half days of the week.  I suggested to my local councillor that if they needed to save money they could ask people to volunteer to do a shift - I would certainly be prepared to do that, and I bet lots of other people would too - but although he thought it was a good idea, the council has not taken it up - but then they never do listen to any of us.

I am aware that many people think I am weird to use the library - even people who read seem to prefer to buy their books rather than borrow them - but I was brought up on a weekly visit to the library (and extra trips to the long defunct Boots lending library), if it had not existed I would not have had any books, and I still see it as an absolutely essential service.  I appreciate that it does not provide what our council would call "essential statutory provision" (ie they don't have to do it) but to me public access to literature is (or should be) a fundamental right; taking that away would just make our society even more "two-tier" than it is already, and would disenfranchise great swathes of people, especially children who do not have access to books at home.

So all this is just to say, I share your irritation at your library being shut!

Rosemary

[kiwilady]

Our main Western branch is attached to Unitech. The very beautiful library is jointly owned. Its open 7 days. Weekends from 10am-4pm. There are several late nights also during the week.  The small branches are open only 5 days but they do have one late night.

Carolyn

[Frybabe]

Rosemarykaye, you reminded me of my Dad. He could never understand why I would want to buy a book when I could borrow one from the library. Likewise, with music. Why buy records when you can listen to the radio. Funny thing about that, I never saw him borrow a book from the library, but he did have a world band radio he liked to listen to.

[maryz]

Our branch libraries had been cut to four days a week - always closed on Sundays (we live in the Bible Belt), with the other day different at each branch.  The downtown branch was open every day and a few evenings.  Recently they have cut hours downtown so they can open the branches five days a week.  Ours is a city/county library, and the two governmental entities are constantly bickering about who pays for what.    It really is a pain!

[nlhome]

I enjoyed both Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, would think the spirit of Huck Finn would haunt people who changed the book. It was written in a different time.

Our library is open as much as it can be. We do surveys to see when more people use it,  and inquire when people would like to see it open. There are different populations who use the library - hard to have it open to serve everyone whenever they would like to use it. We try to have it open both for those who want or need it during the day and for those who come after work. Weekends are more expensive.

[kiwilady]

According to stats researched by the Govt the area where I live has the biggest readership in NZ ( library patrons and book sales) That is probably why we have such extensive library hours.

Carolyn

[rosemarykaye]

MaryZ - what does living in the Bible belt entail?  Is it like living in certain parts of western Scotland and the islands, where you are not allowed to do anything much on Sundays?  In Gairloch I have seen signs saying "No Sunday golf" on greens, and I understand that on some of the islands the swings are tied up in the playgrounds on Sundays.  When Caledonian MacBrayne wanted to start a Sunday boat service to some of the islands there was huge opposition from some of the residents (though the others won).

I do not have strong opinions on this - I am a churchgoer, but here in the city everything is open all the time and the "mainstream" Church of Scotland is pretty liberal.  The Free Presbyterian Church (or "wee frees") do have a presence here, so I suppose they just keep to their own rules on Sunday.

We often hear the term "Bible belt" bandied about, but I am never too sure what it really means.

Thanks

Rosemary

[Steph]

Bible Belt imo is most of the south in the US. They like to keep things closed on Sundays, but now almost every state has almost all stores, etc open. I know th at in Orlando, the Main library is open on Sundays at noon. There is always a line and the genealogical section is mobbed. For a lot of people Saturday and Sunday is their only time to get to the library.
Huck Finn.. I medium liked Tom Sawyer, but disliked Huck.. However as I grew up, I liked a lot of his other stuff.. Still he loved dialects and I hate them.
I am having such fun with What We Eat.. The pictures are absolutely gorgeous. and the food is amazing.  What is normal in one area is totally different from the next one or if they have moved from the farms to a city.

[ginny]

Bible  Belt. What does it mean? That's a good question Rosemary Kaye, I never thought much about the term itself. Possibly an area of the country where many people tend to take a fundamentalist Bible centered view of things as their own sect  dictates?

I remember being in a store in England when they put the Sunday limited hours in, and suddenly the lights all darkened and it was closing, it was Sunday, Sunday hours, called here the Blue Laws, I did not know they extended to the UK too. I think the idea is not to provide competition for churches and it's true that here many stores have limited hours on Sunday so as not to do just that. Most of the stores here where I live in SC adhere to this rule, some are closed all day Sunday.

This morning I was just reading about a book new to me about libraries in the  Bas Bleu catalog. I love that bookstore. Or at least reading their catalogs.  We have a lot of retired librarians here on SL, which is a good sign, I always think. I've always admired librarians. What do you all think about this write up for a new book in the online catalogue of Bas Bleu:  http://www.basbleu.com/basbleu/Item_The-Library-An-Illustrated-History_UD4652_ps_srm.html

Among other things it says that

The Library offers an extensive, intriguing, and lavishly illustrated tour through the cultural history of storing and sharing collective knowledge. Stuart A. P. Murray traces the remarkable evolution of the library's role in societies around the world while exploring the development of the book and its ever-changing dynamic with readers.

and

A lovely tribute to a cultural institution with an uncertain future,

"Storing and sharing collective knowledge."  "Ever changing dynamic." and "institution with an uncertain future."

What do you think about these statements? Are they true? I am wondering what sort of rock I have lived under that I actually did not think of the library that way. Sharing collective knowledge. I'm not sure what I thought the library WAS.  I really would like to read this book!

What will Wikipedia do to the library, do you think?  Sharing collective knowledge, that's the mantra of wikipedia, for sure. WHOSE knowledge might be in question.  (Maybe we should ask what "truthiness" will do to the world?) I swear it gets worse every day.

 Maybe if the libraries of the world asked people  who apparently don't know any better in a shameless way outright  for money, like wikipedia just did,  and put  up a photo of a bohemian looking bearded dude laughing his way all the way to the bank on the internet saying they don't have salaries (and only 50 employees....doesn't an employee get a salary?), they too could raise money. I loved the appeal, which changed daily, you'd have to ignore  entirely the huge business (wikimedia) which runs all the wikis (and for which I am certain salaries are drawn and good ones, too). They  managed to get 14 million dollars in a few days, for "servers and bandwith" ignoring everything else (there's a reason wikipedia always comes up first on any search and it's not good intentions),   simply by asking every year, maybe libraries  should , too?  

Joan G, did you see that Susan Vreeland, didn't you lead a discussion of her book The Girl in Hyacinth Blue? She has a new one out on Clara and Mr. Tiffany, about the role of Clara Driscoll who actually was the designer of many of the famous Tiffany lamps. Apparently this information has just become public on  the issue of letters she wrote over 17 years.  When I took a tour of the stained glass of the Metropolitan Museum of Art 2 years ago I was somewhat shocked at the feud between LaFarge and Tiffany and Tiffany did not come off very well in it. This one looks like a must read.

Roses also is listed by People Magazine as a must read, for those of you who liked it, now in paperback.

Oh and this Sunday Masterpiece Theater will debut Downton Abbey, which is supposedly going to be a new Upstairs Downstairs and a true reason to turn on the TV. I really like Maggie Smith and Derek Jacobi, I'll be there.

[Frybabe]

Five or six years ago I read Library, An Unquiet History by Matthew Battles. It was very interesting. This new volume, from the photo, looks fancier with color illustrations and a more "spread out" layout. Might be worth getting getting to compare the two.

Although Pennsylvania did away with their Blue Laws years ago, alcoholic beverages still could not be bought on Sunday until last year. They have finally allowed beer distributors to open on Sundays. Also, they have been allowing a limited number of grocery stores to open wine kiosks. Our local Wegman's grocery store was allowed to open a beer section. Up until recently beer could only be sold in separate stores. The state run State Stores are still closed Sundays, holidays and voting days.

Ginny your comments about Wikipedia requesting funds and such got me interested in looking up the Wikimedia corporate structure. Depending on where it was incorporated and how the law interprets for profit vs. non-profit corporations they may have to show that a certain percentage of donations come not from Wikimedia, but from private donors. Speaking of non-profits, I discovered some years back that non-profit organizations in the US can own for profit companies without jeopardizing their non-profit status. There again, it depends on the type of non-profit status and the wording of the laws. Also, depending on the non-profit's legal status, they may or may not be allowed to engage in lobbying activities.

[maryz]

I didn’t think about the term “Bible Belt” being unusual.  I think of it as being a stretch across the southern US - say from Texas to the Atlantic Ocean, which is primarily protestant Christian, and the church’s influence is very strong.  It has made itself known in various laws and customs - Sunday store closures (so-called Blue Laws), etc.  If stores were open on Sundays, they didn’t open until after noon (when church was over).  No liquor sales on Sunday, including in restaurants.  In our area, when WalMart came in and started being open 24-hours a day, that still meant closed from 12:01 a.m. Sunday morning until noon.  Our Blue Laws were officially repealed just a couple of years ago.  The area usually considered to be very conservative - politically and socially.  Click here for the Wikipedia article about the Bible Belt.

[joangrimes]

 Ginny, you asked " Joan G, did you see that Susan Vreeland, didn't you lead a discussion of her book The Girl in Hyacinth Blue?"

The answer is yes I did... I got an email from Susan Vreeland yesterday... The book is not being released until Jan 11...It is not listed on Kindle although her other books are...I will read it after it comes out on Kindle... But like you Ginny I think it is a must read...

As for libraries here... I picked up a new publication put out by all the Libraries in my county...  It it is called the Reader and the head line on this one is DownLoad eBooks & Audio books anytime and anywhere..  It says on the back Welcome to the the New Alabama Virtual Library  connecting to a world of knowledge...www.jclc.org/resources.. I haven't tried it yet but am sure that I will use it...  Our Library has always been open on Sunday, although we are in the middle of the Bible Belt...

[bellemere]

Just finished The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks, and I feel as if I have had an elementary education in cell biology and another in medical ethics.  The author did a superb research job in both areas, and earned the trust of a family who thought their mother had been grossly ill-treated  Mrs Lacks had cancer cells removed from her body while under treatment at Johns Hopkins, and was never asked permission nor was her family.  the cells, amazingly,m continued to grow in culture, to an extent never seen before.  They were soon being shipped to labs all over the world as Heal cells (from the first letters of her name) and became the standard resarch cells used in cancer research.  Her family was dirt poor, and many commercial firms started selling the cells for profit, which seems unjust.  I liked it a lot. 
Starting The Nine about the Supreme Court, but my legal education is not progressing well.  Ginny, lots lf Latin terms like"stare decisis" and certiare" .  The Court is far More politically motivated than I had thought according to the author Jeff Toobin.  I don't know if I 'll finish it; a bit of a slog.

[pedln]

Blue laws in Missouri repealed several years ago, but I remember when I first came here over 30 years ago going into a supermarket on a Sunday, and finding some of the aisles roped off because certain items, not food and not considered necessessities, could not be purchased on Sunday.

There are still a few stores that elect to stay closed on Sunday, although they may be open by now – Hobby Lobby, Trees n Trends, Chick-Filet.  Not sure if that’s national or local decision.  But I remember in the debate about the repeal, many retailers felt that they would be forced to open on Sundays.  And they were right.

We’re so lucky with the library, open all day Mon. through Sat. and Sunday afternoons (except summer months) and every evening except for the weekend nights.  I’m sure that  being funded by a separate library tax and not being dependent on city financing has helped make that possible.

[maryz]

I've read Henrietta Lacks, too, and thought it was a terrific story.  However, I don't have a problem with "medical ethics".  I agree that her treatment, because she was a poor black, certainly was not what a white person's would have been.  But I think the use of the cells would've been the same from any patient.  I've worked in a hospital, various labs, doctors' office, and my father was a pathologist.  No one ever paid any attention to what was done with tissues removed at surgery until probably into the 21st century.  There was no intent to "steal" anything from the patient or defraud the patient.  It was a different time.   Just my two-bits worth.

[bellemere]

Please note: the Henrietta Lacks cells are know as HeLa cells, not heal.  Good ol' spellcheck missed my typo.

[Frybabe]

Okay, I am reporting back about Wikimedia now that I have had most of my curiosity satisfied. Wikimedia Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit foundation headquartered in San Francisco, California. I took a look at the last posted Annual Report (2008-2009). Their Financials ending June 30, 2010 show wages and salaries at about 34% (by my quick calculation).  I didn't see where (if) they listed the number of unpaid volunteers they have. The Annual Report does have a list of their major donors. One interesting item in this report was that they have partnered with the National Institute of Health to enable them to update Wiki articles on health, medicine and science. Another interesting page is the one with the world map showing Wikipedia usership by country. Canada, the UK, Germany, France, South Korea and Japan are the top users. The site lists all their projects, so of which I hadn't know about, like WikiNews and Wikiversity. I've probably been in some of them by following links without realizing it.  http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home