The Library

[Steph]

The Library Our library cafe is open 24/7, the welcome mat is always out. Do come in from daily chores and spend some time with us. We look forward to hearing from you, about you and the books you are enjoying (or not). Let the book talk begin here!

*Suggestion Box for Future Discussions
*SeniorLearn's Archives 
 

This is something I worry about here as well. Noone in the universe is worth what we are paying CEO's andCFO's of some companies. The gap between haves and have nots here is getting worse .. The job situation is dreadful in some areas and we are not turning out people who are trained in t he new jobs.. Florida is concentrating so hard on making the graduation tests much much harder( algebra,chemistry, etc) that they forget there is a huge market in the technical fields and all of the plumbing, electrical trades.. We really need to stop and look at education and what we really need to teach. I took algebra, etc in high school. Never used them again, never in college,, but I never had a course in ordinary math.. How much should your mortgage be of your income.. What interest does.. How to do your income tax, etc.. How much more useful that would have been. I taught myself of course, but there are many who simply dont know where to start.

[JoanP]

If you've put off expressing your preferences for upcoming Spring discussions, there is still time.  You have one more day.  The ballot box is in the Suggestion Box heading - HERE.  (The book titles in the heading are links to reviews of the books.  Read them first, before entering the ballot box.  Once you have entered the vote, you can't go back in a second time.  (If you had trouble, please email me your top three choices.)

[Babi]

 Thanks, JEAN.

 I do hope you are right, MARYPAGE, about the outcome of the
elections in Egypt. The pattern of revolt against tyrants is
showing up clearly. You are certainly right about the tyrants
impoverishing their people for the gain of themselves and their
friends. Egypt's successful revolt has encouraged others to try
to do the same.

  I think, STEPH, that we have expected so little from our students
for so long, that we have been guilty of turning out far too many
uneducated graduates. The problem you see now is probably knee
jerk reaction. We do need to stiffen our expectations of our
students, but as you point out, we also need to give them practical
information. And offer training in the many careers that are out
there without takers.

[Frybabe]

Noone in the universe is worth what we are paying CEO's andCFO's of some companies.

Steph, I would add to that sports and entertainment "stars".

[pedln]

Noone in the universe is worth what we are paying CEO's andCFO's of some companies.

 I would add to that sports and entertainment "stars".

But we buy their products, we fill the arenas and the theatres.

Should we add teachers to the above lists?     

Do you retired teachers and other educators feel like you're being demonized these days, no matter where you live?  If I say I have a pension, will someone call me a dirty name?  Seriously, on one of the news channels yesterday (I won't say which) there was this comment -- "Do we want to give it to our children or to the teachers, current and retired?"

I finished The Three Weissmans of Westport and thoroughly enjoyed it.  Mainly, I think, because I liked most of the characters, and even those I didn't were allowed to speak their minds. It was a little surprising that about 2/3 through the book a lot more points of view were added -- in addition to the three main Weissmans.  They had their financial problems too, but their math was easier to understand than what we see in the media.

[MaryPage]

What the general public does not understand about teachers is this:  the average college graduate today goes to a job making 80 thousand dollars a year.  Teachers said through their collective bargaining:  we will take 50 thousand dollars a year for the most important and time consuming job in this nation and the REST of our compensation must go to pension funds for our retirement and health insurance.

So you see, the taxpayers are NOT paying for these retirements;   the teachers are.

We require our teachers to get at least masters degrees.  We make them go to workshops and take courses continually;  usually at their own expense and without guaranteed promotions or added wages.  

Teachers are in charge of our most precious resources:  our children.  It is they who teach them to read, use a library, and love to learn.  They teach them how to work and interact, along with all of the other disciplines.  They go to work early and stay late, then take papers home to grade and lesson plans to do and letters of recommendation to colleges to write.  They stay up late and work on weekends.  

Ask, and you will be told the average elementary school teacher spends at least one thousand dollars per year out of her own pocket to put supplies in her classroom to make the children's experience richer and more rewarding.  I have 2 daughters who teach.  They have been spending money out of their pockets for over 20 years each.  Their money;  not the taxpayers.

They also tutor struggling children before and after hours and during breaks for free out of their compassion.  They buy clothing and supplies out of their own pockets to help children in need.  

[BarbStAubrey]

Problem if the  - sports and entertainment "stars". - do not receive a percentage of the profits than who should? The problem is we have little concept of the sums involved - we have no access to a business or service that utilizes for its success the vast numbers of folks who will pay to be entertained - and in order to keep the locations of these entertainments from being dangerously over sold the ticket price goes higher and higher to cut out some of the numbers who would want entry if the entertainment was more affordable.

Just count up all  your family members and friends and if they were to each contribute say $30 [average cost of ticket to a game and more like $95 to a Broadway show] to make a pool of money - how much would your pool be worth - just family I am already up to $1200 and 20% is $240 for a few hours of work - so make my 40 family members into 100,000 the typical number attending a football game say at the average seat cost of $50 times 16 games a year, minus cost of building, utilities, equipment, maintenance, staff, offices, plus income from vendors, franchises - these are dollars beyond our usual thinking - so for salaries to be what they are as the basis for this huge industry that would not be in operation if was not for the "star" players it is easy to see how the percentage of the industry should be their salary.

The problem is the teachers want to teach - just like a football player wants to throw, kick, run and block - It took someone to see the potential in packaging the players into a recognized team that provided value and sold that value to the average person. The Teachers do not have an advocate selling us on their value or promoting their influence on our lives - we sorta know but it is not like someone selling a product that we all know - I have used 'Pledge' since it came out in 1958 and I am still reminded of the product that has other packaged ways to use than the old bottle - that is not done for Teachers - there is few to any  promoting Community Pride in teachers that would make the community want to pay them more since Teachers are a recognized pride to the community - Plus anyone who is not letting you know the value they add to your life in a new way with a content drip is not going to get their fair share much less, will an industry create the income possibilities that would show up in high salaries.

We say we do not want certain professions to advertise and yet when they do we better understand what that profession can do for us. Teachers are essentially charity cases carried on the tax roles no different than Human Services, Family Court, Roads, Prisons are carried on the Tax roles. Almost makes the case of private and charter schools however, few of them do any better promoting teachers in the same fashion that 'stars' are promoted - a few college professors get recognition so that the University they receive funding from get more endowment and more high caliber students that will bring more endowments to the school as they mature and are successful.

The old adage 'empty barrels make the most noise ' well today the wise who want to be paid what they are worth make the most noise.

[mabel1015j]

Anyone who criticizes teachers should have to spend a month doing the job. Like Tony Danza, many would mind it undoable, at the least, extremely stressful! Much of the work that teachers have to do is not apparent,as has been said, Preparation, testing, grading, continual learning. Beyond that many classrooms are not the classsroom that many adults came out of. Teachers have to deal w/ many more mainstreamed students than 20yrs ago, physically and mentally handicappec students, some w/ major behavior problems. Dealing w/ many more "environmental" problems coming into the classroom, drugs, gangs, separated families, etc.

If i hear one more person say teachers work 9 months a year, i'm going to scream! No schools i know are stopping the end of May and don't begin until Sept. And teachers spent some of their summers continuing their education in some way.

We show our priorities by where we put our money. My son who has a master's degree, worked in academia for 10 yrs and has three yrs in public high schools is making $50,000+ a year in NJ which is cosidered a good paying state! He can't afford to buy a house in the town he grew up in. Most of the teacher's in our very good school system cannot afford to live in this town, unless their spouse has a better paying job then the teacher does. We have a lot of those CEO's and athletes living in our town, none of them are hurting financially.

Have you noticed that many of the people who are whining abt how much compensation teachers are getting are making 5x, 10x or 100x more than any teacher in the country? We just have so little regard for the skills and importance of teachers that have kept our country trained and learned for centuries.

How many of the whiners would be happy if their teenager said "i want to be a teacher?" how many of them are going to be jumping into the teacher's face if something isn't going "right" for the child? We expect teacher' to not only know and teach their subject, but to be social
workers, psychologists, referees, police officers, substitute parents and yes, sometimes, the "
bank". All we ask of that athlete is that we great runners, or hitters. All we ask of that performer that we pay $100 for two hours to see is that they sing well, or act well.

It makes me sick when i hear these whiners. ....... Jean

Jean

[mabel1015j]

The Phildelphia Flower Show starts today and it looks like it's going tp be a stunner! The theme is Paris and they've build a replica of the first third of the Eiffel Tower at the entrance which includes the light show every hour. I think it is one of the best in the country, so if you are a traveler or a flower enthusiast, put on your bucket list....... Jean

[MaryPage]

I told one of my daughters on the phone today what we were talking about in here.  She just sent me this email:

" I just spent most of my Sunday afternoon hand painting a t-shirt for a new student who does not have a "First Graders Rock"  t-shirt for our music program.  (We ordered them months ago and cannot order another one for her.) It has a cute gator on it with his thumb up.  I bought the t-shirt and the paint.  I spent the time drawing and painting the design to look just like the others.  Teachers do this kind of thing all the time and are not paid extra.  They do it because they love their kids.  I do not want sweet Isabella to feel sad because she does not have a t-shirt like the other first graders during the performance.  Hopefully she will appreciate the love put into the t-shirt hand painted for her by her teacher. 
     Now I will spend the rest of my Sunday doing lesson plans for next week, grading papers and do report cards.  All of these things teachers do on their own time.  There is not enough plan time built into a teacher's school day.  Most of our plan time is spent working independently with students, or meeting with parents, other teachers, or the principal.   The general public has no idea how many hours good teachers work.  I stay at least two hours after school each day and  take work home every single night and weekend!   Most of my days are 12 hours long.  How many other careers require such time and dedication?"     Becky

[BarbStAubrey]

The general public has no idea how many hours good teachers work.

And THAT is the problem - somehow parents need to be told and a sense of loyalty and pride needs to surround the teachers in each school - not a competition between schools - just a pride - folks in the area need to be saying, you want to live in this neighborhood because look we have these first rate marvelous teachers. There is Miss so and so and Mrs. does this and that and Mr. is so this and that and and and - so that even the teachers look proud knowing they are thought so highly of and knowing that the community WANTS the teachers to have a decent salary and will go to bat for the teachers. Teachers and their unions try to do it themselves and it pits tax payers against teachers with no one winning.

[Octavia]

If I had a dollar for every time somebody writes into the paper and says "the teachers/schools should......., I'd be a rich woman. Manners, driving, nutrition, money handling,hygiene, the teachers should do it all. Literacy and numeracy seem to be low on the list, until the results come out.Then it's, why don't the teachers do a better job.

Thanks for the hints Larry, but I'm determined to master this beast. I've found it a little easier since I enlarged my pointer, and made it black. It used to continually slip down out of sight at the bottom of the page, and all sorts of things seem to be lurking down there Now I can keep a better visual track of it
Roshanarose, you need to get one of those screwdrivers, if you want to drive/run a Tardis.
Are you a Douglas Adams fan too? My sons got me into his books. Only yesterday, I suggested to my sister that we deal with something as an SEP. Cover it up and call it Somebody Else's Problem.
It's a deluge a day here, lately.

[roshanarose]

Octavia - Thanks for that advice about the screwdriver.  I have asked for one for my 400th birthday next year.  The Doctor is always so busy, I wonder if I will get any time to write, though.

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams?  I used to watch it on TV, but I have not read the books.  Marvin the Paranoid Android was my favourite character, he was so easy to identify with.  Or is this all wrong and I am talking about another book altogether?

No more flooding up your way, I hope.

[kiwilady]

There is a global attack on seniors. We in my age group paid the highest income tax. For years my husband paid 50 cents in the dollar and never lived to collect his State retirement entitlement.  I paid as much as the 6 figure people pay today on  much less income. Now the younger people are forever attacking baby boomers and say we should work until 70. Why should we not retire at the age we were promised? There are letters to the papers or on press internet forums daily attacking the so called greedy seniors. It is very upsetting. There is less and less respect for seniors and they are being portrayed as a drain on society. Next these horrible people will want us to be euthanised as soon as we cost them health dollars!

Carolyn

[Steph]

I agree with most of the statements of teachers, but would remind everyone, that this is not all teachers. I live around the corner from two schools, elementary and middle.. The parking lots are empty as soon as the buses leave. In Florida, you only teach until mid May..You get two weeks at Christmas, two weeks in Spring..Every single Wednesday, school is over at noon.. You  are supposed to do things at school the rest of the day, but again the parking lots are 90% empty at 12:30..  One of my sons had a teacher who came from Alabama, went to a two year teachers college, could not speak so you understood her, could not spell at all and her grammar was truly awful..
I think a lot of problems are caused by tenure.. Good teachers should be rewarded.. more pay, better support etc, but I think that the march in place ones need to find another line of work.
And both of my cousins in New Jersey taught and made over 75,00 a year..

[MaryPage]

So was she called in as a substitute?  Can Florida not attract teachers who fill the requirements degree-wise?

When I lived in Jacksonville, we did not get that much vacation.  We got out at the end of May, had the normal Christmas 'til New Year holiday, had 1 week for Easter, and went to school all 5 days of the week.  Perhaps your school district has attempted to cut some expenses or something?  Oh, and we went to school after lunch until three.  Well, times change;  but what you describe sounds like School Board decisions, not teacher contracts.  Have they been given Wednesdays to do their paperwork?  How do the children fulfill the state requirements as to how many days they attend school?  How do they learn enough to pass the standardized tests?

New Jersey historically has had the highest pay for teachers.  Still, the sums you mention represent years of working and advanced degrees.

Yes, there are bad teachers.  There are bad builders. bad lawyers, corrupt politicians, bad plumbers, bad mechanics, rotten investment bankers, bad engineers and, horrors, really bad doctors!  The many should not be painted guilty for the sins of what society sincerely counts upon being the few.

[MaryPage]

I googled 3 different counties in Florida for their school calendars for the year 2010/2011, and did not get the same results as your county has, Steph.  Then again, I do not know which county you live in.  Here are the results of one I found:

http://www.sdhc.k12.fl.us/info/calendars/2010_11impdates.html

Making it appear both the school year and the school week are much longer than in your school district.

[FlaJean]

Steph, Not all school areas are equal in Florida.  Our schools here do not get out at noon.  The school down the street from me has after school care.   We have an excellent school board and a very good school superintendent.

[ginny]

I think, particularly in these economic times  the public who can't GET a job looks at Tenure and the AFT and thinks, hmmm, gets out on June 10, (the latest calendar MaryPage put up) goes back August 24 (after several in service meetings), I don't get that kind of pay, I don't have that kind of security, and I don't get that long a paid vacation, because that IS what it is, and enmity is bound to surface. So perhaps education of another sort such as we're talking here would be good for everybody concerned, so the non education worker can see what's involved.

Other professions also have to do in service training while maintaining a job and not in the summer. Those who work full time all year round and who get or are  happy to have a week off, also have to do classes to keep up various certifications, such as Engineering at high levels, and this while working a 60-70 hour week and weekends. And that's only one profession. A mistake in Engineering means death, so it's a high pressure job,  on top of it.

It's the holiday I think that causes most of the issues. Any way you look at it, July is free, most of August is free and a couple of weeks in June are free, and they are not, like they were when I taught, without pay. Nobody is so far behind in their teacher certification, hopefully, that they have to do re-certification hours EVERY summer.  

We had the choice, back in the dark ages: take a 9 or 12 month salary. Since they were paying us peanuts, I always chose the 9, wrong thing to do.

[MaryPage]

Here is the calendar for this school year at the school in Missouri where Becky teaches.  They are actually going to have to extend the year this year because of snow days (as if everyone did not know this!).  I forgot to mention that the teachers also go in a week ahead to set up their classrooms and do their bulletin boards.  Becky spends a whole week of days doing just this, plus having lunch with and confering with her teaching team.

Well, I tried and tried, and could not get the site to come up in here.  So type in your search place:  Union Chapel Elementary School Missouri Calendar and then when the site comes up click on calendar and then when it says to see the calendar click HERE, click on here and Bob's your uncle!

If you know the name and location of your local school, you can google it and click on "calendar" and find out what your district is doing in that area.

[Babi]

 I had no idea teachers were commanding such large salaries now.
 $80,000. sounds huge to me. Of course, everything now, costs and salaries, are so much higher that I am totally out of touch with reality.   
 A house I once bought for $25,000. would doubtless cost over 250,000 today. Watching TV shows about buying homes, I keep staring, unbelieving, and exclaiming things like "$300,000 for that tiny place?!!".

[MaryPage]

No, no, Babi!  The vast majority of them are in the 30 to 50 thou range.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Elementary_School_Teacher/Salary

http://www1.salary.com/High-School-Teacher-salary.html

[LarryHanna]

Perhaps it is the abuses in school like New York City that we hear about where teachers are paid and do not teach.  I had such respect for my teachers that it was my goal to be a teacher and therefore got a teaching degree.  However, a job opportunity came first that I couldn't refuse that led to a good career and a good retirement so I have no regrets.  After I had been working a couple of years the desire to be in the classroom teaching was strong and I looked into getting a teaching position and to do so would have required a terrible sacrifice for my family as my pay would have been about half of what I was making, which wasn't all that large.  I decided I needed to pursue my career and it gave us an interesting life. 

I know a number of teachers today who are counting the days until retirement to get away from the principals who won't support them and the vast amount of paperwork required.  They all say they loved the teaching part but the other part is very unpleasant.  There are also many parents who won't support the teacher.  I always knew if I got into trouble at school that I really had trouble when I got home. 

[Tomereader1]

Let the book talk begin here!  This is in the library heading.  Don't we have an area where folks can cuss or discuss the political arena?  I'm all for chewing over these subjects, (and I try to stay off political boards even so) but when I come into a forum that says "Library" , guess what I expect?  Talk about books.

[pedln]

Oh, there's always  probably a bit of room for both kinds of talk.

This has made me think of the books I've read or heard about that are about teachers.  Remember when we read Frank McCourt's 'Tis?  Wasn't that the one about his teaching experiences.  The discussion got pretty controversial, as I recall.

You folks from down under, please forgive me for not remembering my geography, but I do remember years (and years) ago reading some books by Sylvia Ashton Warner.  As I recall, she was a very effective and innovative teacher.

More currently I'm thinking of school/teacher books, novels -- Gentlemen and Players by Joann Harris and The Palace Thief by Ethan Canan. (We had a great discussion about the film that came from that story -- The Emperor's Club.  And how can we forget James Hilton's Goodbye Mr. Chips.

I think the most recently published "teacher" book I've read is Mr. Pip and I don't remember the author. 

What has everyone else been reading, school or otherwise?

[Frybabe]

That reminds me, weren't we considering talking about The Palace Thief a while back? I remember talking about The Emperor's Club but I think not the discussion itself.

[rosemarykaye]

I read "To Sir, With Love" many years ago - it was about one of the first black teachers in inner London, I think it was made into a film with Sidney Poitier.  It was good.

Gervase Phinn (I think that's it) has written some popular books about his time as a schools' inspector in Yorkshire.

South Riding, the last episode of which I wept through last night, is a novel about a teacher who has big ideas for a girls' school in a deprived NE area between the wars.  Winifred Holtby, the author, was part of a generation of women who had been deeply affected by WWI.  They were well educated and wanted a better future for young women, not just marriage or staying at home as a dutiful daughter.  Vera Brittain, who wrote Testament of Youth (and was the mother of Shirley Williams, a prominent politician here in the 1980s), was a close friend of Holtby.

Then there's Alan Bennett's play, The History Boys.

I'm still thinking - there must be more.

Rosemary

[BarbStAubrey]

Robin Williams in Dead Poet's Society

Goodbye, Mr. Chips' redone several times with different actors each time.

BlackBoard Jungle Glen Ford and Sidney Poitier

Freedom Writers Hilary Swank

Dangerous Minds  Michelle Pfeifer

But none of this is about the everyday teacher who is now a mother, psychiatrist, sex educator, dining room  monitor, negotiator between student fights, moderator to family dysfunctional relationship with a student, emotional support for girls becoming women and a minimum of 3 a year who find themselves pregnant, supplier of snacks for those who come from homes where there is maybe one meal a day and the school has no breakfast program - supplier of materials and clothes for those who come from poor or displaced homes - learning how and then intervening a bullying episode -

Driving students home after they were terrified by a bulling incident - learning how to teach and care for a disabled student - be a comforter for kids whose parents or, one parent is in jail - [in my daughter's school that is 25% of the student body with one or both parents in jail mostly over drug charges] - grabbing another teacher to  pick up a student with no ride because the parents were pulled in for an offense and the test reflects on the teacher's pay - actually taking in a student for a week or more till family can be located because a parent went into a drunk or drug filled binge -

On and on it goes so that teaching a subject is only one skill on the long list of jobs the average teacher takes on today. This is a short list of some of the jobs of a teacher while my daughter taught in a small Rural Grade School and as a High School Teacher in a town large enough to have 3 Public High Schools - and no, she is not teaching in the poor area of town - all the schools are very mixed economically and socially. And so what CEO or even manager of a small company is this diversified being required to be proficient in these many skills -

[Octavia]

To Sir With Love has been on our television a couple of times lately, and I love it just as much as I did all those years ago. I shudder to think how many years!
Worse still, I saw a photo of Lulu sans make-up recently in an English mag and she looked great.
The harsh Australian sun isn't very kind to our complexions, unfortunately.

[Frybabe]

One of my favorite's is Renaissance Man starring Danny DeVito. And then there is Finding Forrester.

Dead Poet's Society took a bit of a grim turn as did another of Robin William's films, The World According to Garp.

[mabel1015j]

My favorite "teacher" book is Up the Down Staircase! I read it my first or second year of teaching in 1964 or 65. I remember sitting in the living room of the women's house where i was renting a room and boarding and just laughing out loud! It was so funny bcs it was SO true! There was a movie made, but it wasn't nearly as good as the book.

Steph, 75 thousand sounds very good to those of us who may have never made over 60 thou, but all of the young women in my dgt's group who are in their late 30's or early 40's are making at least 100 thousand and much more and yes, they have corporate responsibilities, but they also have very fexible work schedules and nice expense accts and good benefits and a fairly nice # of days off. Their relatives and friends who are teaching don't come close and are envious.

[roshanarose]

I know a number of teachers today who are counting the days until retirement to get away from the principals who won't support them and the vast amount of paperwork required.  They all say they loved the teaching part but the other part is very unpleasant.  There are also many parents who won't support the teacher.  I always knew if I got into trouble at school that I really had trouble when I got home.  

Larry : You are spot on!  5 hours of teaching a day and then 4 hours of admin every day takes its toll.  That 5 hours admin after teaching is not preparation,  it is paperwork that the government requires.  The government subsidises the students I had, ie  adult refugees.  We didn't have a principal, but a head administrator.  The administrator never encouraged or helped us in any way and was always happy to criticise if any of us made the smallest mistake.  In comparison, the classroom was my haven. The students were fantastic.  When I told them (the students) that I was retiring, we all sat around with tears in our eyes and talked about all the fun we had had in class.  I didn't leave them, I left a system.

My favourite teacher movie : - "To Sir, With Love".  Every time I hear that song, I get goosebumps.

Pedln - Sylvia Ashton-Warner was a Kiwi i.e. from New Zealand.  She was famous for her innovative methods of teaching Maori children.  Just to help you remember where the "Down Under" ladies are from - Gumtree is from Perth, capital of Western Australia; kiwilady is from New Zealand, Auckland area; Octavia is from Rockhampton in the state of Queensland and I am from Brisbane, capital of Queensland.

[BarbStAubrey]

been having fun visiting many of  you on the Google map where  you take that little yellow guy and put him on the streets in a town that all turn blue on the map and then using the arrows on the street I can travel all over town getting an idea of what it is like where you live - Just went down some of the streets in Rockhampton - great fun - try it - I think it is only the Google Map that has this feature.

If you try Austin I am on North Hills Dr adjacent to Far West Blvd that come off MoPac although the state keeps trying to get us to call MoPac Route 1 I do believe on the map they listened to Austin and it is MoPac.- and yes, I am north of the river.

I forgot and kept being directed to turn on this or that street in Rockhampton when I did not want to turn till I figured out we drive on different sides of the street - once I made that switch all was super fun. Saw the river - one of the bridges - lots of palm trees on the streets - great fun.

[rosemarykaye]

Has anyone seen The Choir (Les Choristes)?  It's about a teacher who turns a poor school in rural France around by staring a choir.  I enjoyed it.

[Gumtree]

Rosemary: I missed Les Choristes at the movies - and keep meaning to put it on my DVD queue ... thanks for reminding me. We saw the trailer for the film and I couldn't wait to see it unfortunately DH's treatment and my eye problem interfered with just about everything for a time.

Tomereader Thanks!

Pedln Sylvia Ashton-Warner is a Kiwi as Roshanarose pointed out.
I know of her but haven't read her. Strange how everyone puts the Kiwis and Aussies under one umbrella - you're certainly no orphan there but we're all used to sorting it out and love to gripe about it. Personally I hate and deplore the term 'down-under' -  it's only used by foreigners.

[rosemarykaye]

I've just thought of a whole pile of books about schools - all of the Enid Blyton ones!  I am not being facetious, I loved all of the St Clare's. Malory Towers and Naughtiest Girl In The School books.  There was never the remotest possibility of my going to boarding school, and the books were dated even when I read them, but I devoured them - and so did my daughter Anna, 30+ years later.  All the teachers in them were always Firm but Fair, devoted to the school and appeared to have no personal life whatsoever.

And then there's The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie - wonderful.

R

[Steph]

I loved up the down staircase.. Bel Kaufman as I recall.. I also liked Sylvia Ashton Warner, although her world was so very very different than anything around.
My cousin and her husband are both retired now,, but they have a good pension.. She had no advanced degress. He had his masters.
I know about 6 different counties in Florida.They all get out in Mid to late May.. If you are an A school, you get a different type of break. Yes, our legislature has shortened the required day. Stupid,, it should be lengthened and I am not counting the after school care. My grandson is in that.. It is run in his county by the YMCA at the school..Not the regular teachers, although many of them work with the program.
I have an engineer son and I know he works 12 months a year, gets two weeks off and has a lot of courses to keep up his various cartifications.. His wife is an engineer as well.
My other son and his wife work for the state in the type of jobs that our really stupid governor is after.. They have not had any raises in three years, to save the pensions and now the governor is wanting them to pay a percent in.. It sounds fair, but not it you gave up your raises to do this and now they want it both ways.
MDH worked for a venture Capitol company. They paid well, worked everyone very very hard and did not do a pension.. 401K, yes,, but they did not contribute. Their theory was, they paid you well and would give you free investment advice. It was up to you. Fair enough.

[MaryPage]

MISS READ wrote quite a number of her books about teaching.  Such sweet, dear books.

[Babi]

 Ah, thanks, MARYPAGE. I was feeling really far out of it.

I always knew if I got into trouble at school that I really
had trouble when I got home. 

 
 Yeah, LARRY. My Dad made that very clear early on. And I
think it was a good thing. I passed that along to my kids as
well.

All the teachers in them were always Firm but Fair, devoted
to the school and appeared to have no personal life whatsoever.

  (Rosemary)
 There, in a nutshell, is the old-time image of what a 'school-marm' should be. But most of them ruled the roost in small schools, had no principal to deal with, and had the respect of the parents. Visits from the school board once or twice a year. A different world.

[Gumtree]

My son loved the Edin Blyton books and read them to pieces ...

How about an Aussie - The Getting of Wisdom by Henry Handel Richardson. Has anyone read it? or seen the movie?