The Library

[Frybabe]

The Library Our library cafe is open 24/7, the welcome mat is always out. Do come in from daily chores and spend some time with us. We look forward to hearing from you, about you and the books you are enjoying (or not). Let the book talk begin here!

*Suggestion Box for Future Discussions
*SeniorLearn's Archives 
 

I've bookmarked ManyBooks. I like the way they categorize the books better than Gutenberg. Gutenberg doesn't show pix of the covers so it isn't as visually pleasing. I also like the information and synopsis of the book, most of which Gutenberg doesn't have. Many of the books I checked listed Gutenberg as the origin.

[MaryPage]

Steph, that story is absolutely true and is the reason we have to try to encourage changing their culture through education.  War won't work.

In any society where men wildly celebrate the birth of a male child and feel cheated and put upon by the birth of a little girl, all females are considered property of the family, like furniture and less than domestic animals.  They are to be worked as hard as possible and fed last and as little as possible.  Their feelings do not even exist, and they are not to be educated or given so much as a day of rest.  So it is that the woman was ordered to be raped as a smear upon the family of the offending male and to take away from that family a virgin they could bargain away in marriage to the enrichment of the males of the family.  She was considered worthless after the rape, and the guilt for it was on her head!

We are so fortunate to have been born in freedom here;  I just worry, looking back and realizing what a fight it has been for us to gain what we have,  that our young women of today discount too quickly the difficulties of their ancestresses and take too much for granted what we gained for them.

[ginny]

Gosh two exciting bits of news, thank you for that, Larry and the libraries, that's very exciting and thank you RosemaryKaye for Manybooks, had not heard of either!

It's amazing to me what cover art does or does not do for a book, I came in to talk about just that!

Oh the Mortensen (sp) thing! I had torn out a huge page long article on it to bring here, I guess it had to be the NY Times,  but as per we're so totally on the case here, and he did respond somewhat vaguely (the accusations are wrong essentially)  but it just keeps getting deeper and deeper.  Just heard more on the news yesterday in the car.

 The whole time we were reading it here as a bookclub selection,  I did read the book but  kept thinking something's not right, something's not right but didn't want to say anything in the discussion which was pretty solidly pro Mortensen etc.   Now we can see something WAS not right, in spades or so it's alleged.

Oh but it would be Jon Krakauer, tho, I dunno. He sure did a hatchet job on Boukreev, will never forget it and the  Everest Climb.  I thought at the time he said he'd never write again, I guess he changed his mind. Several times. I've read his  thing about the guy in the van or bus, he sure can write but on the  Everest thing which we also read here and also as you can see several of us did check out the alternate versions, I am not sure HE'S got the only truth in any situation. He may believe what he saw but I am not sure he actually saw it, if that makes sense, due to the oxygen deprivation etc. The other  books on it  sure do differ, and some not to his own benefit.

Such a shame Boukreev died, at least he got out a book defending himself. I still lean in his direction. Not that it matters, and how can any of us really know what happened? I  still think Boukreev was right. And those were some serious accusations flung. Just like these.


 I didn't get to see the 60 Minutes thing, so I don't know what he looks like now, I'll see if I can get it on Youtube. I do have his  Where Men Win Glory: The Odyssey of Pat Tillman  and have not read it.  But at least in that one the family wanted the real story told. Such a shame, again, such a shame.

[ginny]

Rosemary Kaye, what does this mean? old Etonians (for whom there were closed scholarships at my college)   I am enjoying being steeped in all things UK again, as I continue my own Odyssey with Jane  Gardam (i think you're right, Pedln, I have not done a lot of pleasure reading lately but I hit a rich vein in Gardam and I am enjoying every word).

But talking about books and no book covers on Gutenberg and the new Manybooks site, I didn't realize how much of an impact the cover art HAS on me when choosing a book. Maybe this is why there are so many different covers offered for different books?

I selected on a whim one of Jane Gardam's books of short stories called  The Sidmouth Letters, which showed on Amazon a cover with a woman looking out across a quay or something, a yellow and green kind of gouashe, but when the book came yesterday, a slim volume, it had on the cover a photograph of  two alligator shoes, a string of pearls  and some sort of vial spilled. I was astounded at my own repugnance of this cover! I haven't seen an alligator shoe in decades (I now wear comfortable orthopedic shoes) and am glad to have something that actually fits the ancient deformed (according to the orthopedist who looked at the broken leg) foot.

But anyway I felt I could almost smell them, it was ridiculous, they shrieked "yesterday" and "what was once," and  I didn't want even the book lying in sight anywhere.   Finally gave self a good talking to and opened it (so I wouldn't have to see the cover) only to find:

(1) The cover was absolutely perfect for the first story. Even IN the first story one of the characters wears "Dr. Sholl's" to tea at Harrods, where "Up on the lift the ladies rose, to the fourth floor and the big airy restaurant where they had booked a table. The head-waiter on seeing Lady Benson's shoes found that the table was after all another table--one in a corner and rather behind a screen. Mabel's long finger summoning him back took a little time to be regarded."

Does this mean that I can forget about Harrods? hahaha I wouldn't go there anyway, I like Fortnum and Masons, but maybe the same thing would happen. What are "Dr. Sholls?"

and (2) the writing is stunning.

What can be stunning you might think, about a short story featuring  3 old women formerly apparently of a higher estate old women, meeting at Harrod's in honor of a 4th, their nanny, who has died?

That's all that happens but there's a twist at the end. What makes the action, the only action, is the  conversation of the women and what their words inadvertently reveal,  the "sins of omission," I guess you'd say, which we all unfortunately sometimes have done, not the exact same situation but I'm sure we can think of times we failed, thru business or something, to do what we intended, and the result.

I can't get over the story. It's barely 15 pages long, and is called The Tribute. People who don't like short stories should read that one and see if they change their mind.

[MaryPage]

Who was it who said:  "The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton?"  

Everything I have read about England indicates a huge number of men who have run that country and won its wars were graduates of that very old prep school.  We have almost achieved the same results re our Harvard, though one is high school and the other college.  I had an English second cousin (dead now, as are most of my generation) who had a son who went to Eton and is now an MP.  We keep in touch by email these days, this 2nd cousin once removed and I.  I, of course, can remember when he was born.  He cherishes my family memories.  We do not discuss politics much, as he is a Tory and I pretty much am not of that mind.

Ginny, I seem to be in agreement with you re those books from the May 1996 climb.  Who was the woman who wrote a great book?  Danish, wasn't she?  And the Russian was so right, and the guy from Australia, Michael something.  In all of their books, they seemed to disagree with Krakauer, and the sum total left me with the opinion, perhaps unfair because I know none of these people and was not there, but left me with a sense that Krakauer "does not play well with others," if you get my drift.  That is why I got a sour taste in my mouth when 60 Minutes had him attacking Mortenson.  And yes, I too got a sense of gilding the lily and too good to be true in the Mortenson books.   But hey, they were a great yarn and SCHOOLS WERE BUILT.

Lene Gammelgaard.  I looked her up.  The Danish climber.  Wonderful book!

[pedln]

I missed the “60 Minutes” broadcast, but last night watched the PBS Newshour discussion of the Mortenson issue with the Outside Mag. editor and the president of the philanthropy organization.  What surprises me is that there were no audited financial statements.  On the Central Asia Institute website is says 

Central Asia Institute is a non-profit 501(c)(3) organization, and all donations are tax deductible.

  Does this mean that the US Government allows tax exempt status for organizations without such audits or financial disclosure?

Three Cups of Tea was my community’s “United We Read” selection for this year, along with the adaptation for school children.  Lots of discussions for all ages throughout the month of February. I’m sure there are many parents now trying to explain all this to their children.

We discussed this book just two years ago this month.  I went back and looked at so of the comments, like one of mine, below

This is a book that has changed behavior.  How else whould they have collectd enough funds to build 78 schools.

I doubt I’m alone when I ask myself, “Was I duped?  Am I that easily swayed?  One hopes that new light will explain more, but the image is still tarnished and the disappointments will still be there.

[rosemarykaye]

Ginny - my college - King's - was founded by Henry VI, who also founded Eton College (school).  At some point in the dim distant past - probably at the time the college was built in 1441, scholarships were established for old Etonians only.  This means that only old Etonians can apply for them (as if they need them!).  There are of course other scholarships that are open to anyone.

Once a year in May in King's College Chapel there is a service called the Founders Obit - ie the day on which Henry VI was murdered.  At this ceremony lilies and roses are laid on the altar - blue lilies from King's and white roses from Eton.  A scholar from Eton lays the roses down. 

Dr Scholls are a kind of exercise sandal - originally they were in one style only, a sort of wooden sole with one strap that went across your toes.  They were quite fashionable for a time when I was young.  Scholls then branched out into other sandals and shoes.

http://www.scholl.com/en-GB/1/SS11Originals

Rosemary

[BarbStAubrey]

 Look do not be so hard on yourselves - if  you feel duped and trying to figure out if  you should or not based on who said what - just think - we want to believe that publishers have our best interest at heart - baloney - they want to make a profit - their jobs are on the line with every book published if it looses money. What makes money - a story that appeals to the rights and wrongs that we see in the world based on our value system.  

Also, the big money making books is when there is something about the story that makes us feel as if we are being uplifted and our values are cared for - or that it makes us feel like this was the way we would like to have been cared for. One of the books that explains the techniques used to sell us on an idea, politician, sports team, product, way of life is called Coercion.

As the book says, "It's not a conspiracy against us, exactly; it is simply a science that has gotten out of control."

Techniques include - mixing humor with terror - listing rhetorical questions to give an illusion of interactivity - personalizing the dilemma by allowing you to remember or wish for an authority to act in ways that you identify with that protected you from a threat to your well-being - personify an enemy which thwarts your natural cognitive process - all techniques used by spin doctors.

In the first chapter it explains the three levels of response to coercion. One uses a saga to gain your trust and engage you in their fight by emotionally moving you - another for the doubting but who like to think they are in on the know is to play wink, wink nudge, nudge and that ironic bait is their undoing - and then those who do all their own research and believe in themselves so they will not be persuaded so they think but in fact today everything is written to appeal to what you value even if it is how much RAM, megahertz and price.

Most often we are being asked to relate to a situation we have absolutely no control over - we are observers using another's account to guide us - sure we can give examples of why we were and should not have been hoodwinked but bottom line we trust - the book was supposed to tell the truth - we wanted to believe - we have as our guide Emily Dickinson's quote, 'Hope is the thing with feathers. That perches in the soul, And sings the tune without the words, And never stops at all..."

Having been hoodwinked big time in my life I learned we are faced with the dilemma of feeling like a fool if not worse while hanging onto the values we held most dear - or we can become jaded in order to protect ourselves as if we can control others. Either there were a lot of publishes taken for a ride or the industry saw a piece of action and did not care to determine truth, it was the means to profit.  

[Tomereader1]

And remember the guy who wrote the book about being an addict, then later had to tell that parts of it (a lot of it) was made up.  It was a big bestseller, and on Oprah, and she really took him to task.

[winsummm]

Infinite Jest by david wallace suicide victim of depression and amazing writer this one is over a thousand pages long. I have it from Kindle. see wikepedia for more.

[winsummm]

Mortenson didn't personally write three cups of tea his friend whose name I forget but he is not a ghost did it and has credit. I read it all and the details something that I find believable in todays afghan climate. The second book reflects much of the first in the beginning. same ghost I think. I have readingon the second onKindle and own the first one in print with photos of mortenson and kids and others.  I believe he told the story and his ghost interpreted it. It makes me mad everytime I hear this issue raised.
claire

[Frybabe]

Tomereader, there was an Oprah bookclub selection called A Million Little Pieces by James Frey that caused such a ruckus. Wikipedia has an interest couple of paragraphs about it and Oprah's response. Apparently he couldn't get it published as a work of fiction, so changed it to a memoir.

[MaryPage]

My memory is that David Oliver Relin wrote Three Cups of Tea as told to him by Greg Mortenson and that Greg Mortenson himself entirely wrote Stones Into Schools.

[Steph]

As I read all of the responses, I realize that what happened is so open to many interpretations.. So was the Climb.. Any large event has many bystanders, so is open to many ways of looking at things.
Horrors in the news. I live in central Florida. In the last 10 days or so.. a high school (15) year old boy who had broken up with his girl friend was lured to another persons house by the said ex girlfriend , then attacked by 5 people.. shot, stabbed, limbs broken and then burned to ashes.. Tis is all teens.. The oldest was 18.. Why oh why.. All you get from the teens is that they hated him. That is so sad and stupid..You just sit there in horror..

[MaryPage]

Blind hatred is the ugliest, most terrifying vein running through the human psyche.  Above all things I am proud of as I stand on the brink of leaving this life is the fact I took great pains to teach my children not to hate.

[LarryHanna]

Ginny, do you remember when we started the Book Clubs on SeniorNet that Katie (I hope I remember the name correctly) started a discussion where we read and discussed books of adventure like climing Mount Everest and the captain who sailed into the ice and were frozen in.  I don't remember the names of the books but did enjoy finding those books to read that I would not have read otherwise. 

I did download the sample of "Old Filth" from Barnes and Noble and read it.  They weren't too generous in the free selection but does give a flavor and will probably read it later. 

[Babi]

  From all I have been taught/learned,  the basis of blind hate is fear.  The fear may be
baseless, but it exists and will cause people to strike out blindly and viciously.  I believe much
of the old harshness toward our African slave population was the awareness that we had wronged them and the fear that they would rise in retaliation. 

[roshanarose]

Thanks Rosemary for the manybooks site.  What interesting tomes lie therein.  From:

Address delivered by Hon. Henry H. Crapo, Governor of Michigan, before the Central Michigan Agricultural Society, at their Sheep-shearing Exhibition held at the Agricultural College Farm, on Thursday, May 24th, 1866

To

Admirable Lady Biddy Fane, The
Her Surprising Curious Adventures In Strange Parts & Happy Deliverance From Pirates, Battle, Captivity, & Other Terrors; Together With Divers Romantic & Moving Accidents as Set Forth by Benet Pengilly (Her Companion in Misfortune & Joy), & Now First Done Into Print
by Frank Barrett

I love the name Lady Biddy Fane - How could I resist a book with Lady Biddy as the heroine.  TIC 

[roshanarose]

I found myself drawn back to the manybooks site and it is a veritable goldmine of my favourite genre - Myth.  Spend some time looking through this genre, it is worth it.  Or better still check the genre you prefer - you may be surprised what you find there.  Free site.

[Steph]

Have been reading Resilience by Elizabeth Edwards. She said some really true things about life and how to live. I find her ringing the deep gong inside of me that responds to truth for me..
Blind Hate.. Yes, it seems to be fear of the different.. the unknown... All reports coming out indicate the boy was from a good family.. Raised properly, etc. he fell in love ( 15 year old type) with a girl who came from a truly mixed type of background. She had half brothers, stepfathers, and friends who were living on their own at 15.. Then when they broke up, her friends seemed to have feared him so much.. Scary..

[ginny]

RosemaryKaye, thank you for those explanations! King's College Cambridge! What a beautiful place! wow. I  took a short "course" in 2003 at Christ Church Oxford in the summer at their Oxford Experience, which seems to have changed quite a bit from what I'm looking at now but then was....it was kind of magic. I love Oxford and the "dorm room" I had was pretty plush.  There was a wide diversity in the student body that summer, I heard later it's all Americans but it wasn't then, perhaps from all the conferences, lots of Asians and some Indians.  In fact I still hear from some of those attending  and that was 2003. The tutor was from St. Andrews of Prince William and Kate Middleton fame, but had gone to Oxford. We took classes in the board room, I can still hear her, we'd go around the board table and she'd ask your opinion. Those were the days of reading lists and Pym and croquet  on the lawn, and we'd give OUR opinion (which in my case was less than negligible, despite having read assiduously the reading list before hand,  on the issues): (the withdrawal  of Britain and the Partitioning of India), (she was Indian) and I can still hear her in response to my answers: "Something more.....something more I think..." hahahaa I had thought self particularly brilliant,  actually, but "something more...something more, I think " indicates I was not.

 Must have been a heady experience to attend full time.  At the time I was not prepared for such and it made me almost throw up. hahaha  I can also still remember the glare of the...whoever she was at the high table dinner the last night, she was in gown for heaven's sake, nobody had explained the dress code hahaha I thought dressy Sunday Best, with a scarf borrowed from one of my Chinese classmates (herself quite famous in a strange and otherworldly instrument) would suffice,  apparently not. I hear that's changed somewhat, too. Should have left off the scarf, but since I never wear them,  and those who did looked particularly chic, they talked me into it. I think now the Nehru jacket and maybe a pin  would have been enough. One had nothing in the  pre-literature about this and panicked seriously upon finding out there was a dress code and a head table, etc. hahaha Apparently "scarf" like "Dr. Sholls," (which here are foot products, liners, etc.) says something dire.

(And yes, I did get more out of it than this. hahaha)

And thank you for  Dr. Sholl's, so it was something of a sandal, and when added to Lady whatzit's disheveled hair and appearance perhaps that's why the head waiter moved them?

I should  tell my story of standing right next to the Queen at the Carriage Driving at Windsor Castle. Of course she wasn't going out to tea but her shoes were quite sensible. (That woman has POSTURE). Funny story but too long to relate here.

Larry, Ginny, do you remember when we started the Book Clubs on SeniorNet that Katie (I hope I remember the name correctly) started a discussion where we read and discussed books of adventure like climbing Mount Everest and the captain who sailed into the ice and were frozen in.  I don't remember the names of the books but did enjoy finding those books to read that I would not have read otherwise.  


Yes I do remember starting the  Book Clubs on SeniorNet very well.  And I also remember the Action/ Adventure one that  Katie Bates did (what a memory you have) since she was into that type of book,  she herself has been on safari since in Africa.  We added that one once we got going as book sections,  and we did discuss just what you describe. The frozen in ice one: what WAS that? There are quite a few books out now on that incident, one sees the boat up on the ice in lots of photos.     Very famous. We also read one about the Australian woman who crossed Australia on a camel and the climbing of Mount Everest.

If we were doing it today we could do no better than Down the Nile, the woman who actually rowed a boat alone or semi alone down the Nile, I do think it's one of the best books I have ever read of that type.

I like books like that. Am still reading the very uneven short stories of Jane Gardam, some are fabulous, some are just so so.

Stephanie, does  Elizabeth Edwards skewer her former husband in Resilience?

[marjifay]

Is anyone planning to watch the British royal wedding of prince what's-his-name?  Are you at all interested in it?

Marj

[Gumtree]

marjifay:  Well of course! But then, I'm Australian. The build up on TV to advertise shows about the Royals is well under way here - there are a couple I've marked to view but the wedding will be the major one. I've watched the Royal events on TV ever since the Queen's coronation in 1952 which was the first to be televised.  It's the sheer spectacle of it that gets to you - and the Brits do it so well.

[marjifay]

Can you imagine all the money the British are spending on that spectacle?

Marj

[Gumtree]

Yep - it's good for business and brings in the tourists...

[MaryPage]

I have never in my lifetime missed a royal wedding since I listened to that of the then Princess Elizabeth to Prince Philip Mountbatten on the radio in November of 1947, and I plan to live long enough to watch this one.  Will get up at three o'clock in the morning;  no edited repeats for me!  Fun!

[Gumtree]

You go Marypage!  I heard the radio broadcast of Liz and the Greek's wedding too!

[Frybabe]

Are you all thinking of the Endurance? Ernest Shackleton was Captain. My Mom was quite interested in reading that book. One of her relatives was a crew member of one of the polar expeditions, but I forget which. I never wrote it down, so now if I want to find out who, I'll have to do research.

[pedln]

MaryPage, you seem to have it all down pretty pat, maybe you can refresh my memory.  Who was the fellow that Princess Margaret Rose wanted to marry, but for some reason he wasn't suitable, and who did she marry?  Is there an Armstrong-Jones somewhere?

[rosemarykaye]

She wanted to marry Captain Peter Townsend, but I think he had been divorced or something and the Queen told her she couldn't, so she ended up marrying Anthony Armstrong Jones - they were divorced, but he is still alive and won't hear a word said against her, (at least in public).  They had two children, whose names escape me, but they're both married with their own children now.

Rosemary

[bellemere]

Re: dress code mishaps - our governor Deval Patrick , came from a very poor family in Chicago and won a scholarship to an elite prep school outside boston.  they sent him a list of things he should bring with him.  One was "a navy blue jacket for dinner"  His mom went to a store and carefully picked out a navy blue zip-up windbreaker, which he dutifully wore to the first dinner at school, with all the rest of the boys in their navy blazers.

[Gumtree]

I remember the Princess Margaret and Group Captain Peter Townsend romance. He was a distinguished and highly decorated war hero (DSO DFC etc ) and an equerry to the King George VI. He was also divorced which was a real problem not only with the church but the abdication of Edward VIII for the love of Wallis Simpson, a 'divorcee' was still painful recent history for the Royals and the Brits in general.

 Margaret managed to console herself  and later married Anthony Armstrong Jones and after their divorce had a long string of romantic attachments. Townsend also remarried - he died sometime during the 1990s.

[roshanarose]

One would have to be living under a rock to not know about the Royal Wedding.  Kate Middleton insists that she wants to be called Katherine / Catherine from now on, which is fair enough.  Catherines' have had mixed luck in past royal history. 

I am interested in watching how the wedding is set up, all the behind the scenes information is quite fascinating.  Such pomp and circumstance.... I think we all need something gloriously escapist like a royal wedding just now.

[Steph]

Elizabeth Edwards and Resilience.. No.. she is blaming noone.. It is about how to deal or how she is trying to deal with the death of dreams.. She gives equal time to her sons death, her bout with cancer and her husband and his inability to remain faithful.. I gather that later in the book, she finds out for sure about the child.. But at this point, she has discusses her fathers grave illness, strokes and survival,, and a lot of her sons death. She talks a lot about herself.. How she grew up in a fairy tale world and always dreamed too much. She talks of a human inability to think that things will not remain what you may want them to be. I am finding the book wonderful. She is really inspiring me to try even hardrt to reach a new normal.
The wedding. It sounds like fun, but I am amazed with the number of people who are going to parties that morning. Went to a meeting last night and four different women had been invited to go to various,, dress up and view parties. One of my daughter in laws is going to one of those as well. I suspect that even though I am a natural early riser, I will view it somewhat later.. I go on and touch base here and then walk with the dogs first and then by myself for an hour.. And missing that makes me cranky all day.

[LarryHanna]

Frybabe, yes it was Ernest Shackleton.  Thanks for remembering for us as the name totally escaped me. 

[MaryPage]

Yes, I remember the Princess Margaret/Peter Townsend romance.  Didn't they post him off to a job with the embassy in Belgium, or some such?  I seem to have a lurking memory of Belgium figuring in the story in some way.  Divorce was frowned upon in those days.  Then this bunch pretty much ended up mostly divorced!  Townsend was extremely good looking.

[Babi]

 The figure I read is $17 million for the wedding.  Even if it brings in boatloads of tourists,
that seems horribly excessive.  Especially in view of how tight the economy it and how strapped
people are just to make ends meet.  Is it really possible the boost in tourism will cover that expenditure?

[Frybabe]

I am off, shortly, to sign up for a Library card. I haven't had one since I was a teen. I am excited about the possibility of our Library system including Kindle support now as well as the other online features available.

[pedln]

Frybabe, congratulations.  I think y ou will be very pleased when you encounter all the nifty things a library card can do for you.  And yes, that is exciting about Kindle library use in the near future.

[rosemarykaye]

Yes Babi - it is quite frankly outrageous that we should be expected to pay for anything to do with this wedding.  Although I am sure there will be lots of people going to London to watch, I personally don't know a single person who is remotely interested in any of it.  The Co-Op has already reduced its ghastly biscuit tins with a photo of the pair of them on the top.  Inviting dubious heads of middle eastern states is another move not calculated to impress many people - and yet another move by our government to keep in with those who have their fingers on the oil buttons.

Rosemary aka Mrs Grump