The Library

[roshanarose]

The Library Our library cafe is open 24/7, the welcome mat is always out. Do come in from daily chores and spend some time with us. We look forward to hearing from you, about you and the books you are enjoying (or not). Let the book talk begin here!

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*SeniorLearn's Archives 
 

I wonder if Ramsey was aware of the mixed feelings of those who read his explanation of the Doric/Scots connection.  btw there is a mistake in that link - there is no such place as DORIA, at least that I could find in my search.

Laconic is also another word that has come down to us from Ancient Greek.  The definition is "concise", "abrupt".  To me these two word have very different meanings.  It seems in ancient sources that the Spartans were "proud of their brevity of speech".  Fair enough.

When Philip of Macedon threatened them with, "If I enter Laconia, I will raze Sparta to the ground," the Spartans' reply was, "If."  

Outback Australians are often confused of mumbling, ie not opening their lips widely enough for foreign visitors to understand them.  This is explained perfectly well.  They have to keep their lips close together, otherwise they will swallow too many flies.  

[Octavia]

Can't agree more about ruing the invention of the ball, Roshanarose. I have a nephew in Russell Crowes Rabbitohs. Sometimes our family conversations seem to be all about his matches, endless post mortems of his game, etc.
I'm very happy for him, but I do get tired of being "the fooballer's Aunt ; " ::)My stepfather wiped all the other boys and their sports, and basked in his glory.
My eldest had the misfortune of being at Lord's when we lost the Ashes. He said the English were singing taunts of "we sent you to a penal colony"(Can't remember the lyrics). The Aussies retaliated with their own insults!
There was no malice on either side apparently, just some serious sledging .

[rosemarykaye]

Cricket (and rugby I think) may be played without malice, but here in Scotland football is rife with sectarianism/racism - it is just awful.  In England there may not be the sectarianism, but there is still a huge amount of violence.  My son, who is very sporty,  gave it up because he could not stand the behaviour that went with it.

The Scottish sports people keep saying they are going to do something about all the issues in the game, but these are so deeply rooted in some Scots' mentality that it is hard to know how they are going to deal with it.


Rosemary

[Steph]

Why would going to Bali cause such a nerve strike?? Is there something I am missing?
It is amazing how all over the world, each country seems to pick out another country or area and then talk of them with such derison.. The first time years ago, I was in Germany, we were at a beer hall in Munich. At the next tables, there was a tour from Eastern Europe.. They seemed fine to me, but the German waiters were treating them like dirt. Lots of moaning and complaining about them.. Mind you at our table just down from us, at 9pm, there was a totally drunken german who actually laid his head down on the table and slept and noone even bothered him.. Seemed strange to me.

[Babi]

 JEAN, I instinctively mistrust the term "governed" in reference to our
behavior. I think 'influenced' is more accurate. But the more we learn,
train and use our minds, the more effectively we can choose our responses and behavior. I think that also applies, perhaps even more strongly, to the development of the spiritual aspect of our human being.

 MARYPAGE, the specific term 'free will' does not appear in the Bible, but
you will find, often, the instruction, "Choose.."  "Choose for yourselves
this day whom you will serve."  "..choose life, that you and your children
may live."  If there is no free will, then there is neither virtue nor
fault in what we do, is there?  We do have choices, and those choices
also determine who we are and who we become, IMO.

[pedln]

Steph, I'm so glad you asked about Bali, because I surely did not understand the reference.

[ANNIE]

Mabel,
I truly enjoyed reading all about the Cistersians and perusing all the photos.  What incredible arts and crafts in those buildings.  Just beautiful!  Of course, I am not accomplishing much else today because I am also reading the history at each site.

Roshanarose,
I don't understand the reference to Bali either but surely someone from Australia will explain it soon.

Rosemarykaye
We found football to be very violent in Oxford, GB, especially among the fans.  Almost got hit by a fan whom the bobbies were trying to corral.  Scary!

[maryz]

Steph, I don't know who-all would come for a lunch while you're in Highlands.  John and I will do so.  You pick some dates that are convenient for you and others, and we'll see what we can fine.  I do have a class that'll be meeting every Wednesday, and maybe scheduling some time at the library (but I don't know what that'll be yet).

[roshanarose]

Re Bali - Bali has an unfortunate reputation of being taken over by "yobbo" Australian tourists.  I must speak plainly here, although of course not all Australians who visit Bali are "yobbos", but then there is a large portion who are.  I am not too sure why Bali has been given this "bad press" over other overseas location.  I am just going on what has been reported to me.  When the English man spoke to me so scathingly, I knew what he was talking about.  

Let's blame it on Rugby, shall we?  I agree with both Olivia and RosemaryKaye that football in general is a real pain in the ****.  Many women follow the game here and adopt the view, if you can't beat them, join them.  I think that for many men it has replaced what went on in the Colloseum.

[rosemarykaye]

Roshanarose - in the UK, for Bali read Prague, Dublin, Edinburgh - all of the unfortunate places that have become favourites for  British stag/hen weekends.  The appalling behaviour, drunkenness, vomiting, bad language, etc that these groups display has made us notorious in many European cities.  When I go to collect my daughter from the station here in Edinburgh on a Friday night, there are always lots of them pouring off the trains - the women are just as bad as the men, all dressed up in extremely inappropriate clothing and already behaving revoltingly as they will have started on the drink as soon as they got on the train. I don't know what it is about the British and alcohol - we just don't seem to be able to have a sensible relationship with it as they do in France, Italy, Spain, etc - I have never seen any groups of abusive, drunken locals in any of these places - our lot are an embarrassment.

I went to Bali many years ago and thought it was absolutely beautiful, but maybe it too has changed.

Rosemary

[mabel1015j]

I must champion the ball! Many of the most pleasurable days of my 70 yrs have been related to some kind of ball. When i was growing up my sister lived on a dairy farm and many summer and fall days when the family was together for some event - working or pleasure - we ended up plaing softball in a pasture. My high school and college years as a cheerleader bring many happy memories. Of course, many who know me as an adult and a feminist are surprised to learn that bit of data about Jean. But, hubby and i have the all-American story of him being the captain of the football team and me being the captain of the cheerleaders in college which brought us together. And cheerleading taught me to be comfortable in front of crowds of people, which has stood me well as an adult and a feminist!

Our children and now grandchildren have all been good athletes and, again, have given the whole family hundreds of days of good times. Each football season when our son was playing college ball, two other couples who are good friends and DH and i, and as many of our children as could come, would spend the Columbus Day week-end, and sometimes other week-ends, together in some college town. A great "family" outing! Now our son is coaching both f-ball and basketball, and so it goes.

I'm very glad that Chinese woman made the ball! ......LOL

Jean

[rosemarykaye]

Jean

I think football is quite different in the US, and no doubt much more civilised.  Sport should indeed bring people together, but unfortunately in Scotland football is a very divisive force.  My son played basketball for some years and really enjoyed it - the atmosphere was the complete opposite of the football field.  My husband has played hockey for donkey's years and there is never any grief at that either.  Somehow football has come to represent a lot of very unpleasant things here; it seems to act as a vehicle for the expression of an immense amount of  testosterone-fuelled anger and prejudice.

I've never "met" a cheerleader before! 

Rosemary

[marjifay]

Sports here in the U.S. can be bad too, Rosemary.  Did you hear about the man who attended the Dodgers/Giants baseball game here recently in Los Angeles?  He was a Giants fan and came to the game with his son dressed in a Giant's shirt and cap.  Two men beat  the man up so badly he is not expected to live, or if he lives, to be just a vegetable.

I took my sons to a hockey game in Los Angeles when they were young.  I'd never seen a hockey game and thought it might be fun.  It wasn't.  After about half an hour, when the people around us started yelling, "kill him! kill him!," I took my kids home.  Have never seen anther hockey game.

About the only thing my ex-husband and I had in common was boredom with sports.  I'm glad my sons were interested in music, not sports.

Marj

[rosemarykaye]

Marjifay, that is terrible - I had no idea things like that went on in the US.  Do you mean ice hockey when you refer to hockey, as here hockey is the kind played on grass or astroturf?

My daughter told me that this morning her school was given an "inspirational" talk by one of those people who go round doing stuff like this - one of those "you can do anything if you want to" speeches that I find mildly irritating because in my cynical British opinion it's just not true.  Anyway, Anna said the whole thing was about sport (though it wasn't supposed to be) - every example was about sporting achievement, with nothing about music (her thing), theatre, writing or indeed any creative arts at all, not to mention science.

I know sport is seen as a Good Thing, and I'm sure it is, but it's not the only thing!

Rosemary

[Octavia]

I think young men all have some inborn aggression, and in past ages they would have used it to defend their tribe, fight off wild animals, and keep their mates safe from marauding tribesmen. Nowadays they are discouraged from the natural rough and tumble in the playground, that boys have always engaged in.  Playgrounds have been purged of anything slightly challenging. Monkey bars, climbing frames, anything that could possibly lead to falls has been eliminated. There's a slippery slide here, that has so much sand piled at its bottom that kids just come to a slow disappointing stop.
I think all this aggression and frustration is released in football and the wild behaviour that goes on in post game riots. Not condoning it, but I can see why it happens.
Our children have to learn to take risks. People have jokingly asked why my boys go trekking and exploring in India and do risky things and I say it's because there's no more dragons to slay .

[marjifay]

Re the man who was beaten, I don't mean to imply that this is a normal thing, Rosemary.  I believe the men who did the beating had probably been drinking, not to excuse them.  People have since been very critical of all the beer that is drunk at Dodger games.  A lot of people drink in the parking lot, they say, and are already mostly drunk by the time the game starts.  And the Dodger administration has promoted days when the cost of beer is reduced to get more people to attend the games!  Not a very good atmosphere for young kids.

The hockey game I attended was ice hockey.  It was then a new game in Los Angeles.

Re the "inspirational talk" given at your daughter's school, I also roll my eyes at that kind of stuff.  It seems when men give those talks they most often drag sports into it.  I remember when I was employed we were often given talks where every other word was a sports term.  (Ho-hum, LOL)  Now that there are more women professionals in business, hopefully talks will be geared to both men and women without all the sports references.    Yes, there are many many other things just as important as sports.  

Marj

[isak]

If you lived in Texas, you would see how football has become a religion, at all levels. 
We who are from "outside" do not get it!!
isak

[marjifay]

Octavia, I'm not so sure that agression is inborn in boys.  I think it's encouraged by their fathers who seem so interested in wanting their sons to be that way.  I remember when I was married, I suggested to my husband that we not give our boys war toys and even perhaps give them a doll to play with.  Well, did he ever blow a fuse!  A doll for my boys?? Are you kidding??   After our divorce, I never bought them guns or war stuff, and they did not turn out to be sissies nor were they overly agressive.  

And as to playgounds being purged of any things that could possibly hurt kids, I agree that has gotten to be be pretty dumb.  Perhaps it's because the cities are afraid of getting sued by parents whose kids get hurt.  But I think it affects both boys and girls.  Girls also like to play at "rough and tumble" games, etc., or at least I did.  I heard the other day someone said a playground had changed the name of the tug of war game to "tug of peace."  Now that's seems kind of ridiculous.  (Or, come to think of it, maybe it's not so ridiculous.  I hate war and war games.)

Marj

[Octavia]

Alcohol is the scourge of the modern age. Australia, New Zealand and Britain are all battling binge drinking in young people. It's the cause of most of the senseless violence that happens every night in our towns and cities.
Marjifay, I see your point but after having four boys, I could see a difference in the way my boys acted as compared to my sister's daughters. My boys tended to settle fights by thumping each other, the girls did a lot of screaming and trading insults. They used words to deliver their blows.
I never gave the boys guns, but they picked up sticks and used them instead. They made bows and arrows and spears to act out their games. They seemed to need a lot more physical release for their energy, camping, hiking, building canoes, anything that might stress their mother out
Boys often greet each other by a friendly thump on the arms.

[marjifay]

Well, I still think it has to do with how boys are reared, what they see in movies, etc.

One of my sons loved to run, and that probably used a lot of energy.  He liked to run so much he quit smoking at age fourteen, because it caused him to get out of breath.  I did not know he smoked then, until he told me.  He said older kids would offer him a cigarette and he'd say, "No thanks, I quit."  No one believed he quit so young. My other son got rid of a lot of energy playing his drum set which he loved, and which he'd learned from his father whose hobby was playing drums.  (I liked to play the piano, but by the time my kids became interested in music, guitars and drums were the thing, not a piano.  My mother in law played the piano and the clarinet, had played in an all-women's orchestra.)  Kind of got off topic here.

Marj

[mabel1015j]

I agree w/ all of you!

I believe that people who have more testosterone have a greater need to do something physical and competitive. I also believe that the environment that children grow up in has an enormous effect on behavior. Our children-a son and a dgt - never had guns or GI Joe toys; our son played w/ blocks and cars and trucks by choice,  our dgt never played w/ dolls, by choice. They are both very nice people, compassionate, empathetic and mild mannered. On the playing field - our daughter played high school soccer - they were very coordinated, and also very smart. They had to be, they are both small folks.  They like the strategy of sports. Our son was very agressive which he needed to be - he was 5' 7" and weighed all of 145 lbs when he played college football, but in was agressive in a sportsmanlike, legal way. He never liked losing, more so than our dgt, who enjoyed the sociability of team sports. Nor does our son like losing at cards or board games, or pick up games! Lol

Our fun times have been at the high school and college level.  Our children and grandchildren
Have all been to the Phila professional ftball, basketball and baseball games. They also go to minor league baseball games, which are very family oriented and a lot of fun. When i was
living in Harrisburg, Pa inmy 20's, i loved going to the Hershey Bears hockey games. They are
the minor league team for the Phila Flyers. In 5 yrs i never saw a fist fight! Not true of the
Flyers who are known as the Broad St Bullies!

I see no reason why alcohol needs to be sold at any professional sports event!

I do think most men, moreso then women,in general,  need the challenge of partcipating in or watching strategic, competitive, physical events. Since they aren't going out slaying animals, ot physically protecting their families, i think they need another outlet for those energies.....lol

Jean

[mabel1015j]

To bring this discussion back to books....... I notice some of you say your DH's read the same books you read. Does that happen frequently? My husband and i have probably no more than half a dozen times  in 43 yrs of marriage read the same book! That's very illustrative of the difference between us   

[roshanarose]

Mabel / Jean - The only time my DH and I would read the same books was if I was reading a book he had insisted that I read.  He ADORED SciFi, which doesn't do a lot for me at all.  Although, of course, there have been exceptions to that rule. 

Rosemary - Don't get me wrong.  Although I haven't been to Bali I have been told by many who have got out of Kuta Beach to explore, how very beautiful it is.  The Balinese themselves are lovely people as well. 

Football - This word has many meanings globally.  Football in Australia includes Rugby League, Rugby Union and, some say, Australian Rules.   In the UK and other World countries I believe our game soccer means football. It is all a bit confusing and not really worth worrying about.   When the Americans talk about football I assume they are talking about "Gridiron".   

[Octavia]

My husband and I rarely read the same books, but no.1 son was an avid reader and everytime his father put a book down he'd pick it up and start reading. Caused a lot of angst between them.
I was shopping today and picked up the new book by Geraldine Brooks-Caleb's Crossing?
I was going to buy it, but thought of my budget and decided to wait for the Library. Has anyone read it?

[Gumtree]

Octavia:  Good to see you in  such good form again. Hope that viral infection is a thing of the past. Caleb's Crossing is quite a recent release I think - I'm hoping to pick it up soon too.

Roshanarose

and, some say, Australian Rules

And what, pray tell, is wrong with Aussie Rules?   

I too deplore the sale of alcohol at sporting events - unfortunately sport is no longer 'sport' but professional entertainment for the masses. 'Football' particularly soccer, or 'the game' seems to bring out the worst in the followers and often reveals ethnic rivalries and sometimes deep and bitter hatreds. To my mind, the unruly supporters need to get out there and relieve  their aggressive tendencies by kicking a ball around themselves instead of kicking in someone's head. They might even end up drinking a little less.

Mabel/Jean My DH and I rarely read the same books - I believe I could count the number we've both read on one hand which works out at about one every decade or so... Similarly, one of our sons mainly reads my stuff - the other mostly reads his Dad's stuff but with them there is a considerable overlap so that they both read some of each type of book. Must be genes at work.

[Steph]

My DH and I had some authors, we both adored.. John Sandford for one.. but otherwise, he loved legal and spy thrillers and I read more mysteries of all types.. I also love Nonfiction and history and he did not.
I have two sons.. I just never had the fist type fighting at all with them.. We were both quiet people and the boys are as well. We loved individual sports, both boys were and are swimmers, sailers, now the older is a triathlete and the younger bikes,, The younger also is on pistol teams, that came from the Army. He turned out to be quite a shot.. No hunting, strictly competitions and he loves it..

[Babi]

 You revive a memory, JEAN. I had cousins who lived among orchards in the
Rio Grande valley, and there, too, softball was a popular summer sport.
My cousin Ann, in particular, loved it! Come to think of it, there is no
doubt much more room for the game in the country than in the city.

 Not much really changes, ROSEMARY. I was reading in my book of excerpts
from ancient historians, that as Rome degenerated the chariot races became
the focus of rabid competition. Men would rant as though the future of
humanity depended on the success of the Blues...or the Greens, or whatever.

 That's terrible, MARJ. I hope those guilty were caught and punished. And
if they are in jail, I hope they are never allowed to watch a ball game
again!

 

there's no more dragons to slay .

  Good point, octavia.

 BOOKS!  All my family are avid readers.  When we get tired of other amusements, you may
find eveyone of us quietly reading a book.

[maryz]

Our family/friends week at the beach (coming up in July) is an orgy of reading, newspapers, books, computers, you-name-it.  If we're not reading out by the water, it's on the deck, or in the air/conditioning, or in the bed.  Plus each family brings already-read books to put in the giant book swap.  It's tradition!

[rosemarykaye]

Mary, that sounds like my kind of holiday!  I can't imagine it working with any of our family, unfortunately 

Rosemary

[maryz]

Rosemary, we've been doing it since 1981.  I didn't think this would be 30 years!  We started before any of the grandkids were born, and have added various friends along the way.  We go to the Gulf coast, just east of the mouth of Mobile Bay, and didn't go last year because of the oil spill.  We're really eager to get back to "our" house!  We get both sides of a duplex, and each side sleeps 12 - a big crowd.

[jane]

Jean...nope, my husband and I have only read three books that were the same...two Robert Ludlum's and one Ken Follett's. All three were things I suggested to him since he's a Daniel Silva fan. Our interests are just too different, I guess.

[JoanK]

GINNY: (Agatha christie's husband " also had written memoirs, and they are called Mallowan's Memoirs."

I have them: someone asked if I wanted the book; they couldn't get into it. I soon found out why -- it is the most boring book I ever tried to read. I didn't get very far either.

I always wondered why what we yanks call soccer seems to attract much more crowd violence than any other sport. On the field, it is not a particularly violent sport. I would think a rougher sport, like rugby or American or Australian football, would be the one where violence would spill over into the audience.

Yes, we do have incidents of audience violence heere in the US, but, at least so far, they are few and far between. The violence ON the court is a matter that really concerns me, in one of my favorite sports (basketball) and others (I can't enjoy ice hochey for that reason.

I'm a sports addict. I admit it. If they play it, I'll watch it! I need a 12 step program (my name is Joan..... ). I don't even know why I get such satisfaction out of it. This month I'm going crazy jumping from basketball to tennis to ice hockey to baseball to golf to rugby (I don't even understand the rules of rugby, but I'll watch it) to gymnastics to .... And beach volleyball should be starting soon. HELP!

[Frybabe]

My condolences to our New Zealand contingent. I just heard that Shrek (the sheep) has pasted away at age 16.

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/06/07/6803192-new-zealand-mourns-death-of-shrek-the-famously-shaggy-sheep

[ginny]

JoanK, really? on the Mallowan's Memoirs? I sort of cheated and read a little bit about what he said about Agatha Christie  toward the end and I found it touching and beautiful. He apparently,  like a lot of people of his day, tried his hand at poetry,  and he wrote an Ode to Agatha on her Eightieth Birthday, dated September 15, 1970.   I loved it. It's really sweet. She was very lucky in him. It's beautiful and funny. They obviously shared a sense of humor.

Based on that I think I will try even tho now I'm somewhat afraid of it being boring.

[Steph]

 Iloved Come Tell me where You live by Agatha.. It is on one of mybookshelves for sure.. Just have no idea where..
The Anthony trial is eating up my days.. Hmm..Even in the gym.. almost all of the tvs are tuned into the trial. Amazing.

[Frybabe]

Has anyone read this book? It looks very interesting - Book Lust to Go: Recommended Reading for Travelers, Vagabonds, and Dreamers by Nancy Pearl. She wrote two other "Book Lust" books, too.

[JoanK]

GINNY: don't be put off by my boredom -- maybe I was just in a bored mood.

[Octavia]

I had an email from no.1 s.on in London, he and his wife had been to see Agatha Christie's Mousetrap. Fifty-nine years, what a run! He wished he'd taken a photo of the oak plaque in the foyer, with the number of shows, "2240 something".
Makes you wonder what the final total will be.

[ginny]

I saw it too, years ago,  and enjoyed it thoroughly, it was the experience and the theater and the sense of,  as you say, Octavia, the sign in the lobby.

I love those old theaters. The Fox in Atlanta is such fun. It's a shame we've lost a lot of those old pleasure palaces. I saw Yul Brynner there in his last tour of The King and I and he was magnificent as ever.  You get a sense of excitement and history from the theater itself which adds a lot to the entire experience, or so I think.

Here's something on St. Martins, can you imagine?

Many famous British actors have passed through St Martin's. In April 1923 Basil Rathbone played Harry Domain in R.U.R. and in June 1927 Henry Daniell appeared there as Gregory Brown in Meet the Wife.

Joan, I know how that is, and it may actually  BE boring, I just read his bit on the Mousetrap and was charmed again by his description of her as a person totally lacking vanity. I understand a new book is out with her diaries revealed, I hope they show what his book does, a beautiful devotion. If so, she was very very lucky.

[roshanarose]

JoanK said - "I always wondered why what we yanks call soccer seems to attract much more crowd violence than any other sport. On the field, it is not a particularly violent sport. I would think a rougher sport, like rugby or American or Australian football, would be the one where violence would spill over into the audience."

I think it is because soccer (football in Europe)was originally being played by, well, Europeans.  The conflicts of these countries go back centuries, eg Bosnia and Serbia.  I don't think anyone else goes to those soccer games in Australia, other than those who come from Bosnia and Serbia; or often Croatia and Bosnia.  Sparks really fly, there are always fights among the audience, and most often the ruckus is televised.  The players have been known to plead with the audience for peace.  To no avail.   Whereas rugby league for example is most often played between states of Australia, that, fortunately, don't have a history of conflict and bloodshed.  



Is Rugby in the States, Rugby Union or Rugby League?

Vale Shrek and may you find many ewes in your paddock in the sky.