Author Topic: The Library (Read 2325996 times)

MaryPage · « **Reply #10000 on:** November 25, 2012, 10:27:22 PM »

The Library

Our library cafe is open 24/7, the welcome mat is always out.
Do come in from daily chores and spend some time with us.

We look forward to hearing from you, about you and the books you are enjoying (or not).

Let the book talk begin here!

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Oh dear, it wants you to sign in. I have an account, as I am a subscriber, but I don't want to give out my password. Well, let's try this. It lacks the pictures, but here goes:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-england-discovery-of-possible-royal-grave-digs-up-twisted-legacy-of-richard-iii/2012/11/24/33c34570-3314-11e2-92f0-496af208bf23_print.html

Steph · « **Reply #10001 on:** November 26, 2012, 06:37:59 AM »

I loved the article, but then I am a Richard supporter and have been for many years.
I am reading a variety of fiction and non..Bedbook is a Hiassen book.. car book is a mystery(The Darling Dahlias), which I really dont like, but am trying to finish..
I have asked for the hotel book for Christmas.. Sounds good and I will just skip the profanity.
I do have run ins with hotel staff occasionally. I travel with my two corgi and mostly have to pay extra. Last year, I stayed in a hotel that was so filthy in the room, that I actually went down to the front desk and said.. they should pay me for me to sleep in that room.. Got nowhere, but have taken the entire chain off my travel list.

Frybabe · « **Reply #10002 on:** November 26, 2012, 06:55:07 AM »

Click on "discovery in September" in the article and you get a BBC article with pictures.

Here is what the Richard III Society has: http://www.richardiii.net/ click on Leicester dig.

PatH · « **Reply #10003 on:** November 26, 2012, 08:01:38 AM »

I hope they get a definitive yes or no from their DNA testing.

MaryPage · « **Reply #10004 on:** November 26, 2012, 08:41:26 AM »

Seems incredible, doesn't it?

Tey's book makes it seem pretty sure those little princes were still alive when Richard was killed.

That would make Henry VII their murderer, and not Richard of York.

There is nothing in Richard's life to indicate he would do anything other than love and protect his beloved brother's children.

Henry, on the other hand, was a total usurper AND, of course, was Lancaster. What is more, there had been an Act of Parliment making it a law that no children or decendents of John of Gaunt and Kathryn could ever claim the throne, and yet Henry's mother Margaret had only that line to claim. Bad business all around.

Look at the portrait of Henry. Does he look like someone you would trust? Look at Richard. Sigh. I choose the House of York and the White Rose.

Babi · « **Reply #10005 on:** November 26, 2012, 09:40:55 AM »

I feel the same way about the too frequent use of those words in dialogue,
GINNY. It always makes me feel the author must have a very limited vocabulary!
Which, of course, makes one wonder why he thinks he can write a book worth
reading.
Sorry I can't help you with the engrossing, sweep you away book. If you find
one please do let us know.

Isn't your criticism a tad overstated, MARYPAGE? There are the preachers of the
idea that everything will be hunky-dory in your life if you just have faith,
but we all know that hard times come to the best of people. And I have been known to
point out that God only promised to "supply all your needs", not all your whims!
But what preacher would be so foolish as to say "the poor are responsible
for their condition"? That's a viewpoint I usually hear from the extremely
wealthy who want to justify not spending a penny of their fortune to help the
unfortunate.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #10006 on:** November 26, 2012, 11:28:59 AM »

I attributed "Jackdaws" to Jms Patterson, it should be Ken Follett. I think i was watching Patterson on Booktv at the time.

Pat, i'm having a hard time with The Swerve. It is something about his writing, very long sentences and lots of Latin names. They don't stick in my head. I find myself rereading sentences in order to understand what he is saying. I've probably picked it up about ten times and am still only on pg 60. I'm hoping that after he gets by his supposition of what Poggio was apt to be doing, it will flow better.

Jean

marjifay · « **Reply #10007 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:57:42 PM »

Interesting article, MaryP about possibly finding the remains of Richard III. I have just added to my TBR list at someone's recommendation, THE SUNNE IN SPLENDOR; A NOVEL OF RICHARD III by Sharon Kay Penman. I tried reading Tey's Daughter of Time, but couldn't get interested in it and dropped it after about 90 pages.

The last book I found really completely engrossing was UNBROKEN by Laura Hillenbrand.

Marj

JeanneP · « **Reply #10008 on:** November 26, 2012, 02:41:00 PM »

After all these years I doubt that those bones can be fully Identified as Richard the Third even with DA. The royal blood has been so mixed up since that time. Me being British, with a vote, I would suggest they just find a decent burial ground in the Area it was found. bury it again and not be doing what some will want done. Spending lots of money that UK does not have and let the history of Richard remain as we were taught through our history books.

PatH · « **Reply #10009 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:46:06 PM »

Even if they get a good DNA sample from the skeleton, what is the likelihood that NEVER since 1485 was there a break in the line in which someone's father wasn't the person it was supposed to be?

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #10010 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:55:03 PM »

I read where there is a direct line to his older sister living in Canada - from what I understand they have advanced enough in the last 7 years so that a matriarchal line gives almost as much information as a paternal line.

JeanneP · « **Reply #10011 on:** November 26, 2012, 04:50:54 PM »

Many children back then did not belong to the man showing as Father. Do not have to go back to many centuries to find that. Specially in the Royal families of the world. They had to come up with Males and lots of ways were done to get them.

We had one king who never married and had about 17 children. Many with Ladies of the court and also ladies of the street. Most of the males he later brought into the family. Some of the Lords,Dukes etc showing up later where from those lines. Some of the families are still going today. People still looking at them as having Royal Blood.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #10012 on:** November 26, 2012, 05:10:15 PM »

Jeanne the DNA would show if there was a break and the child was not part of a family line - it is these breaks that help us learn where we came from - last I read the DNA can trace back 25 generations. And then other matches within our DNA gets it to the part of the world where we started but not exact to ancient tribes.

Steph · « **Reply #10013 on:** November 27, 2012, 05:46:50 AM »

Ihad my DNA done for genealogy purposes.. It was quite interesting. I showed as purely North European. Not even Italian, etc. I had always been told that there were severval Indian maidens, but DNA did not show them.
The match for Richard is a woman in Canada descending from his oldest sister. Should tell them quite a lot actually
I always thought the Lancasters were much much fiercer than the White
Rose..

PatH · « **Reply #10014 on:** November 27, 2012, 07:32:04 AM »

I always got hopelessly mixed up in the War of the Roses. When we read Richard III here a few years ago, I briefly had it all straight, but it's faded now. Whether or not the play is accurate history, it sure is magnificent drama.

It would be fun to get one's DNA origins.

Babi · « **Reply #10015 on:** November 27, 2012, 09:11:31 AM »

Quote

I always thought the Lancasters were much much fiercer than the White
Rose

A reasonable enough impression, I would think, STEPH. Founded by John of Gaunt, aided by
his brother, the "Black Prince" Edward, and progenitors of the Tudors...they were a pretty
fierce lot.

MaryPage · « **Reply #10016 on:** November 27, 2012, 12:58:04 PM »

Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henry VII, was THIRTEEN years old when he was born. She was a recent widow.

She was 12 when married to Henry's father. I call that rape. Child rape.

kiwilady · « **Reply #10017 on:** November 27, 2012, 02:37:06 PM »

Interesting about DNA and our roots. I have not had DNA testing but my blood group is mostly found in people from India and Asia. Its quite rare.

Carolyn

Frybabe · « **Reply #10018 on:** November 27, 2012, 03:06:01 PM »

It was quite common for children to be married in their teens back then. Things were gradually changing by the 16th or 17th century in the European countries. I think in some southern Asian countries it is still somewhat common. I don't know about Africa. Ancient Rome set a minimum marriage age of 12 (I'll have to look up who established that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Augustus or Vespasian). It was common in early Middle Eastern societies too, although there were differences of opinion back then too. Aristotle believed the optimal marriage age for a man was 37 and for a woman 18. Men, once upon a time, were less apt to marry until they got their military service out of the way and had established themselves financially.

JeanneP · « **Reply #10019 on:** November 27, 2012, 03:29:10 PM »

I have met people here in the US that got married at 14. Some from the hills of Arkansas. One had 3 children and 2 husbands when I spoke with her at her age of 18.
Some went from Illinois to Kentucky to get their daughters married at 15. (Pregnant) This is in 1950s . Just know of one now in 1962. I think the women across from me was only 15 when had son and 16 married. That is 33 years ago.

Frybabe · « **Reply #10020 on:** November 27, 2012, 03:45:37 PM »

Well, a short research came up without finding anything about who or how a minimum of 12 for marriage age in Rome. I did find that there were laws against taking concubines below the age of 12 at least from the end of the 1st century.

Augustus made a set of laws governing marriage, but I didn't see a minimum age limit. What he did, though, may have encouraged earlier marriages since bachelors especially were heavily taxed for not being married. At the same time, he encouraged married women to have more children by initiating an award program for anyone who had three or more children. The tax on bachelors was very unpopular so it eventually went by the wayside.

Females were often considered ready for marriage if they were old enough to get pregnant and hold the pregnancy to full term. Females were rarely taught other than domestic duties and were not considered valuable except for political or prestige alliances. You kind of get the idea that females were shuffled off to become someone else's problem or expense ASAP.

Steph · « **Reply #10021 on:** November 28, 2012, 05:58:37 AM »

John of Gaunt was a very interesting man.. I always thought that he was more suited to reign than many of the monarchs at that time. He married a lot and descendents of his are all over Europe at one time as Kings and Queens.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #10022 on:** November 28, 2012, 06:20:11 AM »

I've just bought copies of 'Hound Dog Days' by Harry Pearson to give to my mother and one of my best friends for Christmas. I can't remember if I mentioned this book when I first read it, but I really recommend it to any of you who like reading about dogs, English country life, and gentle humour.

Pearson is a great writer (he's a Guardian journalist amongst other things) and this is the story of his family's acquisition of a petit basson griffon vendeen dog and Pearson's life with Little Man, as the puppy is named. There are lots of little asides about village characters, dogs Pearson has owned in the past, and life in general, but Little Man is the star, and he's wonderful. What's more, unlike in many animal-based books, Little Man is still alive and kicking at the end of it (actually I think he's asleep with all four legs in the air, but only resting before his next adventure..)

Here is a link from Amazon UK:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hound-Dog-Days-Country-Contentment/dp/0349120374/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1354101257&sr=1-1

Rosemary

Babi · « **Reply #10023 on:** November 28, 2012, 09:23:14 AM »

When you consider that the average expected life span in the 17th century was 35,
teen marriages become much more reasonable. At the age of 17, your life might
already be half over. I believe a girl was considered marriageable when she began
menstruating. In royal marriages, a girl might be 'married' very young, with the
expectation that she would be raised in her husband's household and the marriage
comsummated when she came of age.

A "petit basson griffon vendeen" dog? Heavens, what a mouthful. That sounds like
a book I might enjoy very much. I'll look for it. I went to see what the dog looks
like, and found this link. http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/petitbassetgriffonvendeen.htm
Great looking dog. (Uh, small point, ROSEMARY. It appears the word is 'basset'
rather than bassoon.

Winchesterlady · « **Reply #10024 on:** November 28, 2012, 09:56:13 AM »

"I finished Heads in Beds, and honestly were it not for every other word being F....and S.... and MF....and most of it concerned with reproducing actual dialogue, I would recommend it, but it really got to the point that it became obtrusive. What did you think, Winchester Lady? The young man, I think, has a future in writing, but you keep wishing he would leave off the expletives, or is this the lingua franca of the day?"

Ginny, I haven't read too much of Heads in Beds...My Father passed away on Sunday after many years of care in an Alzheimer's care center. We've just finished making all the arrangements. It has been a busy, stressful week.

The little I did read of this makes me agree with you. It's very interesting, but you wonder why that sort of language is necessary to tell the story. Unfortunately, That seems to be the way so many people talk nowadays. The "F" word is as common as saying 'darn'. Thankfully, my sons don't talk like this -- at least never around me! Don't want to sound like a prude, and I don't mind some bad language in books, but I think most of the time it's used for effect.

maryz · « **Reply #10025 on:** November 28, 2012, 11:17:54 AM »

So sorry for your loss, Carol. I know it's been a hard time, not just now, but for some time. Hugs!

PatH · « **Reply #10026 on:** November 28, 2012, 11:25:24 AM »

I'm so sorry for your loss. Alzheimer's is so cruel to the loving family--much more so than to the sufferer himself. ((((((hugs)))))).

PatH · « **Reply #10027 on:** November 28, 2012, 11:27:39 AM »

Quote from: Winchesterlady on November 28, 2012, 09:56:13 AM

I don't mind some bad language in books, but I think most of the time it's used for effect.

Yes, and it doesn't even produce the effect, because they overuse it so much that it's just noise.

Frybabe · « **Reply #10028 on:** November 28, 2012, 11:44:16 AM »

My condolences Carol.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #10029 on:** November 28, 2012, 11:50:36 AM »

Carol looks like there will be conflicting feelings for awhile - my prayers are with you...

Tomereader1 · « **Reply #10030 on:** November 28, 2012, 11:56:47 AM »

My condolences also, carol.

MaryPage · « **Reply #10031 on:** November 28, 2012, 02:46:55 PM »

My sincere condolences, WinchesterLady.

Would that be Winchester, England or Winchester, Virginia or some other Winchester? My home town is Stephens City, Virginia and Winchester is only 8 miles to the north of there on the Valley Pike (Route 11) or on Interstate 81.

I do not live in Virginia now, but in Maryland.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #10032 on:** November 28, 2012, 04:00:41 PM »

Winchester Lady, I am so sorry for your loss. I believe you live in the USA? My sister-in-law & family live near Winchester, England.

Babi - if you can't get the Pearson book, let me know and I'd be happy to send you a copy, as the two copies I bought were extremely cheap on our Amazon, and as I've maybe mentioned before, I've got a huge boxful of stamps inherited from my husband's uncle (so any package I send looks like someone's gone wild with stickers...).

Off to pack now for trip tomorrow, and am just hoping trains have recovered from all the flood disruption in central England they've had some dreadful weather down there.

Rosemary

JeanneP · « **Reply #10033 on:** November 28, 2012, 04:42:29 PM »

Rosemary. I have always had such luck finding the books that you recommend. Get them in my Local Library. For the last 2 months I havn't found a one. I will go in and see if can find" Hound Dog Day" sounds good. But chances are will not have it.

Need to go shopping but just had to finish the last few pages of this book. I really enjoyed it. Sort of a About family book. Her first one I believe.
Title is "Things we love most" Fast read. She is wife of Bob Woodruff the ABC News man at one time. One who got hurt in Iraq. Her name is Lee Woodruff. Hope she writes more.

ginny · « **Reply #10034 on:** November 28, 2012, 06:48:23 PM »

Winchester Lady, I am so sorry to hear of your great loss.

My sympathy to you and your family, at this sad and stressful time.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #10035 on:** November 29, 2012, 03:25:12 AM »

Jeanne - would be happy to send you a copy if you can't get it (see my reply to Babi!) So frustrating when people recommend books & you can't get them.

Rosemary

Steph · « **Reply #10036 on:** November 29, 2012, 06:05:17 AM »

My Condolences to you Winchester lady.. My mother in law had alzeimers and it is a horrid disease..Takes the personality before body..

Babi · « **Reply #10037 on:** November 29, 2012, 08:57:45 AM »

I'm sorry to hear of your loss, CAROL. I hope you will be able to remember the happier
times for your comfort.

Nicely put, PAT. That's exactly how it sounds,..like annoying, exasperating noise.
"..full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.."

Most kind of you, ROSEMARY. No rush, as my library will be closed for the next two
weeks for the final business of putting together their new and remodeled sections.
Plus, of course, holidays immediately following. Time enough after that to see if I
can locate Mr. Pearson and his handsome hound. Enjoy your trip.

ginny · « **Reply #10038 on:** November 29, 2012, 10:19:11 AM »

The new issue of Vanity Fair, which normally I don't read, I had to get because it has an unpublished Truman Capote fragment in it intended apparently for Answered Prayers which was never finished. That is accompanied by an article on the decline and fall of Capote with lots of photos, and i know that's old stuff but this excerpt is brand new.

Included in the issue is also a huge article on Julian Fellowes, the creator of Downton Abbey and also Snobs and Past Imperfect, as well as Gosford Park, it's marvelously interesting.

Also included is a bit about ian Fleming's desire to cast initially someone else as 007, other than Sean Connery, but they couldn't afford this other actor, I found that interesting; he felt the other actor was the embodiment of 007.

Another huge featured article is the uproar over the renovations proposed for the NY Public LIbrary, the historic old main building, and the reasons for and against them, it's fascinating. The Editor of the magazine says kindle and nook are winning and the libraries in America are losing and closing daily, so it looks to be of great interest. That's his opinion and I know it's not shared by many of you.

I'm impressed with this issue, pictures of a half naked Kate Moss notwithstanding.

Am coming to the end of The King's Speech and it's got a lot of revelations I did not know about (never having heard of Lionel Logue before the movie). It's touching and it's clear the two men enjoyed a friendship well till the end of their lives.

Love all the recommendations here.

LarryHanna · « **Reply #10039 on:** November 29, 2012, 10:47:51 AM »

Hi everyone.

A couple of days ago I got "Team of Rivals: the Political Genius of Lincoln" by Doris Kerns Goodwin and am finding it very interesting and not difficult to read. It is long but I am looking forward to reading it.

Ginny, do you remember when we did the Book Exchange on the old SeniorNet site we decided we couldn't send books to England due to the problems of dealing with the VAT tax? It is interesting you mentioning Truman Capote as just a few days ago watched the movie "Capote". The actor certainly captured the voice and movement of the man. I found his friendship with Harper Lee very interesting.

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Author Topic: The Library (Read 2325996 times)