Author Topic: The Library (Read 2084146 times)

PatH · « **Reply #15880 on:** September 04, 2015, 01:13:35 PM »

The Library

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Do come in from daily chores and spend some time with us.

We look forward to hearing from you, about you and the books you are enjoying (or not).

Let the book talk begin here!

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PatH · « **Reply #15881 on:** September 04, 2015, 01:14:13 PM »

It's nothing like poignant with a bunch of girls singing it around a campfire. The tune is bouncy, and it's played for laughs--"to the bottom" is sung increasingly low, and "itty bitty children lost their lives" is sung in a high squeaky voice. None of us ten year olds thought seriously about the implications.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #15882 on:** September 04, 2015, 01:22:31 PM »

ah did not have my 10 year old hat on and therefore confused...

ginny · « **Reply #15883 on:** September 04, 2015, 02:01:03 PM »

Very bouncy, indeed! I expect the song itself has always been in questionable taste the kids loved to sing it. I'm in the supermarket and Siri and I will attempt to do the verses I can remember.

Oh they built the ship Titanic to sail the ocean blue
and they thought they had a ship the water wouldn't go through
It was on her maiden trip when an iceberg hit the ship
it was sad when the great ship went down.

And now the chorus that Pat is singing. It was sad, it was sad....etc,

the next verse

they were leaving England's land and they were not far at sea
when the band struck up with Nearer my God to Thee
O the captain tried to wire, but the lines they would not fire
it was sad when the great ship went down

followed by chorus o it was sad, it was sad.....etc

And then there's something about I can't remember the first of the verse but it was when something about the shore

when the rich refused to associate with the poor
so they put them down below
where they'd be the first to go
it was sad when the great ship went down

Followed by the chorus. And lots more verses

And this of course addresses all the rumors.

Songs like this were actually very popular a long time ago ---my grandmother knew an awful lot of mountain songs that were came over from Scotland and they were always extremely sad things usually the dog was left at home with the baby, and the the baby was saved by the dog by killing a snake but the homeowners came home and found the dog covered in blood and oh it's endless, really, there's the one about the train flagging the train down and all of the great disasters, train disasters anyway these used to be very popular songs that people would sing .

More when I get home.

PatH · « **Reply #15884 on:** September 04, 2015, 03:08:39 PM »

Quote from: BarbStAubrey on September 04, 2015, 01:22:31 PM

ah did not have my 10 year old hat on and therefore confused...

Usually we try to be a bit more grown up here.

There seem to be a lot of variations, none of them exactly like I remember, but here's Pete Seeger:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u61Pj4f6Ucg

The line "To the bottom" isn't sung here, but it's played.

bellamarie · « **Reply #15885 on:** September 04, 2015, 03:21:12 PM »

Well, I made it to the event of Mrs. Elizabeth Frankowski the author of Tears of Faith, which took place at my local library. I was quite shocked at how many people showed up for this. Our Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur, and Councilman Tom Waniewski were there to present her with a special plaque, in honor of her contribution of her diaries, she allowed to be digitized in our library so everyone will have access to this wonderful story. I was able to meet Mrs. Frankowski, and talk with her a little bit about her book, and thanked her for contributing her diaries so we can all have access to them, to help us learn more about the personal lives of those who survived such horrific tragedies. I was able to get video of her speaking, and will attempt to load a link to share it with all of you. There was a very touching moment when a group from the audience mostly elderly and Polish, stood and serenaded her in her Polish language. She was surprised and then got very tearful.

Here are links to our local newspaper articles which covered the event.

https://www.toledoblade.com/news/2015/09/01/Diary-of-life-in-Soviet-work-camp-online.html

https://www.toledoblade.com/gallery/Toledo-Library-reception-for-Elizabeth-Frankowski

Here is one of my pics I took of her.

This is the group serenading her.

ginny · « **Reply #15886 on:** September 04, 2015, 03:44:32 PM »

Oh that's lovely, Bellamarie. What an uplifting moment and person. Lovely, thank you for sharing that.

On the song, we did a slightly different chorus, we had "there were husbands and wives, even children lost their lives," and on the even children we affected those high voices.

It is what it is but it's strange how it addresses the rumors, almost all false, which accompanied the sinking of the Titanic.

ginny · « **Reply #15887 on:** September 04, 2015, 03:48:27 PM »

Tome, thank you for that report about the discussion of Station Eleven. I am intrigued by the other presentations on different topics which were covered in the book. I think when you read questions naturally arise and it appears the library is aware of that and has moved to provide that depth. If wanted. It appears the events occurred at different times, which is also smart.

I also like her one or two questions, just right for an hour or so. You could really get into it, if people would only speak up. Sounds like a good time, to me. Thank you for telling us about it.

Steph · « **Reply #15888 on:** September 05, 2015, 09:35:54 AM »

Amazing, you looks like everyone picture of a dear Grandmother.. Would dearly love to have been there. Went last year to one with the author of The Boy in the Suitcase, but it was not nearly as good.
I was appalled to discover that the boat book is so new, no paper, and very few thrift copies. kindle has 13.00.. whew.. i looked at it in the book store.. very large and fat, not the kind of hard back that I like to buy.. I am trying so very hard to only get books into the house that I can trade.. or give away, Hmm,

Dana · « **Reply #15889 on:** September 05, 2015, 09:45:17 AM »

Hey Pat, loved listening to that Titanic song. I'd never heard of it before. Obviously didn't make it to Scottish girl guide camp! (Enjoyed Pete Seeger too)

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #15890 on:** September 05, 2015, 02:34:26 PM »

Dana had not seen your post in awhile - glad to see you - as if we met by chance at Starbucks or something

OK folks this showed on our PBS last night and it is just fabulous - had no idea that Alabama is our Amazon forest and that the ice sheet that covered the north came down as far as Tennessee leaving Alabama with the most rivers and lakes the 'seed bank' so to speak in that all the green that was wiped out by the ice sheet grew from the plants of Alabama.

This is really a treat to see - http://video.aptv.org/video/2365149942/

mabel1015j · « **Reply #15891 on:** September 05, 2015, 03:45:29 PM »

Oh my gosh, i learned something new about a writer I read and liked 60 yrs ago. Did any of you read Foxes of Harrow by Frank Yerby? Or any others if his?

I realized today that he was African-American, that explains why his writing gave more information and empathy about his Af-Am characters than other writers did, which was one of the reasons I liked them! In the 1950s I made the assumption that he was white, why not? I knew of NO Af-Am fiction writers at the time. So sad...........

Jean

mabel1015j · « **Reply #15892 on:** September 05, 2015, 04:18:29 PM »

ginny - you were anxious to hear about the discussion of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. I think I must be at a crochety/angry place in my life, i thought the book was depressing even though in the end these characters mostly survive and thrive. Unfortunately I was reading at the same time a book about patriarchy and when I returned to reading ATGB I just saw how the men in the book were most often destructive and even though the woman controlled the daily lives of the families and got them out of poverty, there was no acknowledgement of their contributions by the men or society.

So, when I listened to the discussion, I got a good lesson in stopping being such a dark, glass half empty person and to start thinking of the glass half full.

I felt much more liking for the book after hearing the others speak more glowingly about the characters and events, but I had to say to them, "I think we must be careful about viewing the circumstances with rose colored glasses. Yes, they had love and discipline and they survived, but it was awful living conditions and circumstances and many did not come to as good an end as Francie's family." There were a few too many pollyanna statements by the group for me, but I did listen and moved slightly in that direction by the time the discussion ended.

I kept thinking that their comments and the mythology of how grand it is to pick yourself lup by your bootstraps leads conservatives to think anybody can do this. Altho on rethinking it I did realize that Smith did a decent job of indicating that many families were just one critical event away from starvation.

You mentioned Marjorie Morningstar. I don't remember any feelings pro or con when I read it decades ago. I suppose i thought it was just another nice book with a female protagonist. Reading it again a few years ago it was a little too sappy for me.........but then I am in my crotchety stage! Lol!

Jean

PatH · « **Reply #15893 on:** September 05, 2015, 07:37:50 PM »

OMG, I didn't read Frank Yerby, but he was much talked of, and I had no idea whatever he was African American. You really had to keep a low profile then.

Steph · « **Reply #15894 on:** September 06, 2015, 09:02:58 AM »

I found out about Yerby maybe 20 years ago. Had a black dentist and his hygenist and I were chatting one day and she told me. He was a big hero to the black community.. His books were a bit racy, but my Mother had loved them and I read most of them as passdowns from here.Since she was a Virginian, I never told her what I had learned.
I loved Francis, but she had extremely poor taste in men,, but when you figure when it was written. I read several of her books and they all had week men.

ginny · « **Reply #15895 on:** September 06, 2015, 10:20:51 AM »

Jean

I don't think you're crotchety at all. I think times have changed a bit as to how alcoholism is depicted in fiction, and while the father in this book was loving and did secure a place for his child, so often the situation is much worse. And something that perhaps people didn't want to read about or even acknowledge when a Tree was written.

Saving Mr. Banks, which had the misfortune to come out at the same time as some blockbuster which got all the attention, was a masterpiece in showing what happens in reality, (albeit with a loving father), and how it lingers perhaps in even the most successful child, even when that child is old.

The Frank McCourt book was in some ways a masterpiece showing from the child's point of view how the family coped. I can't recall, did his father have the same issues? I simply can't recall. I was so appalled at his living conditions and buoyed up by the neighbor's support. That was well done. I did not like it when I read it but it lingers.

As far as Marjorie Morningstar, to a teenager or young pre teen it was magic. I don't want to read it again and find out it was just teeny bopper romance.

I don't think it's being crochety, one has seen too much at one's age to be taken in, perhaps, or caught up in young love.

I could not get over Pete Seeger's Titanic. He's taken it and made an Edmund Fitzgerald out of it, a PC anthem, that's about as interesting a thing as I have ever seen, but it wasn't that way to begin with. MAYBE that's how these things work? That's about as fascinating a thing as I ever saw, the original verses are all turned around. Just think, when we're dead, nobody will ever know what it was?

In Edit: Belay that, there are still Girl Scouts singing the original:

Here are some Girl Scouts (in a tent no less) singing the Girl Scout Titanic Song from 1912, predating Pete Seeger's efforts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rP1gD9xXkU\

Such cute girls. The tune is different for the "husbands and wives," and some verses are missing. That shows you how the Oral Tradition even in modern times works.

ginny · « **Reply #15896 on:** September 06, 2015, 10:36:15 AM »

I'm about 1/4 of the way through Nanny Returns, and it's not as good as the first one but it attempts to tie up some loose ends, and present us with a denouement we can live with, vis a vis Greyer. Now he has a little brother Stilton (yes that's his name) and that shows you why it's a little bit strained, WHO would name a child after a cheese? OR maybe it's the English village of the same name? The protagonist now moves into the world of the administration of an elite Prep School. It's interesting and I hope they can pull it off. We are meeting some of the old characters and seeing how they turned out (so far, not well).

They are also the authors of Citizen Girl, which I heard a lot about when it came out.

JoanK · « **Reply #15897 on:** September 06, 2015, 03:34:29 PM »

" i looked at it [Dead Wake] in the book store.. very large and fat, not the kind of hard back that I like to buy."

Don't forget, about a quarter of it is notes and references. The book itself is 353 pages, only a little longer than a mystery story.

It's $11.12 used on Amazon and $11.99 on Kindle.

PatH · « **Reply #15898 on:** September 06, 2015, 04:20:09 PM »

The Girl Scouts even put the giggles back in.

I see the class struggle was in it from the start.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #15899 on:** September 06, 2015, 04:33:59 PM »

amazing to me - I was a Girl Scout from the age of 10 before there were Brownies and did go to Girl Scout Camp and as an adult was a co-leader and leader and trainer and on the board and worked at the Girl Scout camp for 3 or 4 summers and even went to some adult experiences in the state of Washington, Canada and upstate NY and with all of that I NEVER heard this song... lots of singing but not this song - amazing the differences for each of us although we belonged to similar groups with the same name when we were youngsters.

ginny · « **Reply #15900 on:** September 06, 2015, 06:56:08 PM »

Here's one by the Irish Rovers, it's a lovely tribute in archival photographs if everybody is not OD'd on the Titanic, it's not the same song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bs1dou3SDw

Steph · « **Reply #15901 on:** September 07, 2015, 08:44:15 AM »

Joan K,, I am watching Amazon and Thrift books, since it is going down a bit , will wait. I figured a lot of it was explanations.. I move back in mid October,so I cannot do libraries.. Hmm.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #15902 on:** September 07, 2015, 06:08:46 PM »

Clearing out old saved web sites and found this - remarkable...

I think of one of the greatest books ever written, Pilgrim's Progress, written by John Bunyan during a six-month imprisonment in Bedford Jail. Daniel Defoe in prison wrote Robinson Crusoe. Sir Walter Raleigh, after he fell from favor with the queen, wrote his History of the World during a thirteen-year prison sentence. The great poet Dante worked and died in exile, but while there, his contributions to humankind were immeasurable. Cervantes, who wrote Don Quixote in a Madrid jail, was so poor he could not even get paper for his life's writing, but used scraps of leather. Milton did his best writing blind, sick, and poor, and Beethoven composed his greatest music after he had gone deaf.

These people, instead of complaining about their cruel fates, took advantage of whatever opportunity they had. We will never know, but we must wonder if we would have heard of Helen Keller, had that childhood disease not robbed her of both her sight and hearing. Would Franklin Delano Roosevelt have made it to the White House had he not been afflicted with polio? Was his confinement to the bed and later the wheelchair the reason he was able to think his life philosophy through and develop the style and manner that led him into the most powerful and important position in the world for four consecutive terms?

bellamarie · « **Reply #15903 on:** September 07, 2015, 06:34:49 PM »

Just a little tidbit to add to your post Barb.

The Prison Epistles – What are they?

The Prison Epistles refer to four letters in the New Testament written by the apostle Paul during his time under house arrest in Rome between approximately 60—62 AD. They include Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and Philemon. Together they comprise four of the New Testament's 27 books and 15 of its 260 chapters.

http://www.compellingtruth.org/prison-epistles.html

PatH · « **Reply #15904 on:** September 07, 2015, 07:11:46 PM »

Interesting thought, Barb. Roosevelt was politically ambitious, and would have done something, but he might very well not have forged himself into the man he became.

How many other examples of "prison literature" can anyone think of?

French historian Fernand Braudel drafted his seminal work, The Mediterranean and the Mediterranean World in the Age of Philip II from memory while interned in a German prison camp during WWII. (He must have gotten to a library afterward to add the footnotes; there are a gazillion of them.)

It's music, not literature, but French composer Olivier Messiaen wrote his Quartet for the End of Time (quatour pour la fin du temps) while in a German prison camp in WWII. He wrote it for an unusual combination of instruments--clarinet, violin, cello, and piano--because those were his fellow prisoners (he was the piano) and they were allowed to perform it, on battered instruments. The deep Catholic faith which infuses all his work is particularly strong here (it's based on passages from Revelation). Messiaen's musical vocabulary is challenging if you're not used to it, but if you are, this is a great piece.

PatH · « **Reply #15905 on:** September 07, 2015, 07:14:09 PM »

Bellamarie,you were posting while I was writing. Another good example.

Steph · « **Reply #15906 on:** September 08, 2015, 07:52:03 AM »

I believe that FDR would have always run for President. He was incredibly political from late teens on.. He was also brought up to believe that you served your country. I must confess that there are also any number of books written in prison for the sole purpose of getting out.. Not many of them worth reading.

PatH · « **Reply #15907 on:** September 08, 2015, 09:32:20 AM »

Right. Can't count those books, nor the ones trying to make money from accounts of the crimes that got the writer there.

Steph · « **Reply #15908 on:** September 09, 2015, 08:34:15 AM »

Visited FDR home and museum when we were in the area.. Glorious house, pictures were wonderful.. His mother was a pip.. Whew..Eleanor put up with a lot.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #15909 on:** September 09, 2015, 12:45:09 PM »

Yes, she did! I have read that Mrs Roosevelt controlled FDRs personal monies til the day she died! Just a small sample of her interference in their marriage.

Oh, dear! I got a book from the library 500 Great Books By Women. It was published in '94 so there are none from the last two decades, but some are as early as 15th century. My list of TBR books just grew by about 100 books! Lol. One of them was Enchanted April which was made into a movie a year or so ago. Has anybody read the book? I didn't realize it was written in 1922. I got it last night at the library and started reading it. The author, Elizabeth von Arnim seems to have had an interesting life and was a little scandalous for the time.

O.k., i'm really confused now, my research says Enchanted April movie was made in 1991. I could have sworn there was one recently with Judy Dench, Maggie Smith, or actresses if that ilk, etc. Am I confusing it with something else? In any case there was also a play in 2003.

http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9E0CE7D7103AF932A05754C0A964958260

Jean

bellamarie · « **Reply #15910 on:** September 09, 2015, 03:36:35 PM »

I just found Rob Lowe's book, Love Life at the dollar store it originally sold for $27.00. I like him, so I figured I can't go wrong for a buck!

What wife didn't control the purse strings? Good for Eleanor! Oh my heavens Jean, more books! I have to giggle.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #15911 on:** September 09, 2015, 03:57:56 PM »

No, no, no, not ER, not wife! Mother Roosevelt! Even when. FDR and ER married and he was pres! Mother controlled their funds.

jane · « **Reply #15912 on:** September 09, 2015, 08:40:20 PM »

Jean...the rich really are different from you and me, aren't they. Can you imagine your Mother-in-Law controlling your money. Not in this household, I can assure you.

jane

Frybabe · « **Reply #15913 on:** September 10, 2015, 06:46:25 AM »

News on the manuscript front: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34202574
Custody fight over Chateaubriand manuscript.

Steph · « **Reply #15914 on:** September 10, 2015, 08:14:14 AM »

m-i=l also slept in the adjoining bedrom of FDR and Eleanor.. She was beautiful when young, married well and took over as much of FDR's life as possible.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #15915 on:** September 10, 2015, 12:21:25 PM »

Have y'all seen this - the numbers are just a tad off now since this was all the rage last week but still it does put it into perspective.

bellamarie · « **Reply #15916 on:** September 10, 2015, 03:45:43 PM »

Oh Jean, seriously? My misunderstanding. I was trying to browse and catch up and must have read it too quickly. Mother or Mother in law, would NOT go near my marriage or money.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #15917 on:** September 10, 2015, 04:27:23 PM »

the Roosevelts - as I remember reading they each had a townhouse attached to the other and doors were cut opening to both units so they could walk in and out of each other's areas - I had an aunt that was a good friend to my Mom who was not really an aunt but out of respect we called her Aunt and she and her husband had this arrangement with her mother - they each had these enormous formal living rooms and their bedrooms were next to each other however they were enormous rooms - easily 30 to 40 feet square plus a closets that separated the two bedrooms.

Also houses were built differently then - there were no hollow walls - there was no plaster board it was real plaster smoothed on a system of wood bars spaced about an inch or two from each other going up all the walls with plaster between and then the plaster on top of this lathe - they were thick dense walls. You can still see a lathe wall in older houses built before WWII

And as far as money - most wealthy people have others managing their money down to keeping track of their everyday expenses - if we look at the Roosevelt's using our own lifestyle then we are missing what is normal for others. Franklin's mother was demanding but then part of her concern was probably what today folks hire outsiders to manage where as Franklin's mother did the job. Elenore did not have the hovering family - she was brought up like topsy in comparison so that where the warmth of a caring close family appears ideal in reality she had no experience with what that really means and from what we read of her reaction, she found it smothering. Later in life I am sure the terror of loosing your son which was the typical reaction to polio kept Franklin's mother close watching his every move - they all pitched in to keep him going and as a mom it is not an easy task to let go when you see your grown child having been injured.

I am remembering the sheer terror in parents eyes whenever you got sick before penicillin was available. My sister had polio and I am remembering the fear being so great you could taste it and by the time she contracted polio they at least had some hospital care that more was known in the early 40s than in the late 20s. I'm thinking just because of wealth and fame his mother was still a mom and more than likely felt that same terror.

Steph · « **Reply #15918 on:** September 11, 2015, 08:37:35 AM »

dont know about the New York City townhouses,but the mansion on the Hudson.. The rooms were not large and the door was in the middle of the wall. I suspect that one of the reasons Franklin and Eleanor were up on the Island where he came down with polio was that Momma hated the place and they could be more alone. Momma miscalculated about Eleanor, she really seemed to believe with no family to speak of, she could bully Eleanor and it simply did not happen. Eleanor was one of the strongest women I have ever read about. Amazing really, given her early years.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #15919 on:** September 11, 2015, 02:14:59 PM »

Here is a nice link about Campobello where Franklin vacationed with his parents during his childhood and later with his own family.

http://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/presidents/roosevelts_campobello.html

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Author Topic: The Library (Read 2084146 times)