Author Topic: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2 (Read 774893 times)

bellemere · « **Reply #3440 on:** August 01, 2012, 03:22:22 PM »

This is the place to talk about the works of fiction you are reading, whether they are new or old, and share your own opinions and reviews with interested readers.

Every week the new bestseller lists come out brimming with enticing looking books and rave reviews. How to choose?

Discussion Leader: Judy Laird

So for som eof us, a deptessing book is one that never takes a positive outlook , or has a likeable character. For others it is personal; touching on the saddest aspects of ourown life.
Funny, even knowing the fate of Anne Frank does not make her dieary deptessing. but the fate of Liy Bart in House of Mirth had me , if not depressed, at least very sad. But there is a difference between sad and depressing. I think I favor the "no positvive outlook" theory.
I remember throwing "The Shack" at the wall: the cheap pseudo religiosity certainly depressed me, I never finished it. It is deptressing to think that so many peoplea
bought It

bellemere · « **Reply #3441 on:** August 01, 2012, 04:01:26 PM »

I rmember reading that Maeve was the daughter of a member of the Dail Eirann, Irelanld
s parliament, (easier to spell) and as a young girl appeared on stage in the Irish production of "Hair" Must have been a shock to
Her Dad and his constituents. Circle of Friends was my favorite.

JeanneP · « **Reply #3442 on:** August 01, 2012, 08:20:22 PM »

I could be wrong as it has been awhile since I read. "The Shell Seekers" Didn't she write that? I know, I loved Circle of Friends also.

Steph · « **Reply #3443 on:** August 02, 2012, 08:09:50 AM »

I loved almost all of her books.. Not the one with a lake in the title. That one was a pure cheat, but loved the rest.

marjifay · « **Reply #3444 on:** August 02, 2012, 10:14:00 AM »

With the recent death of Gore Vidal (Lincoln, Burr, et al), I have watched a couple of old talk shows, one where Vidal debated Norman Mailer and another where he and William Buckley got into a heated argument. It made me nostalgic for those old talk shows where they discussed interesting subjects and ideas, unlike today's boring shows where about the only topic is so-called celebrities and their divorces and troubles.

Marj

bellemere · « **Reply #3445 on:** August 02, 2012, 10:52:13 AM »

Yes, the really good talk ahows are gone. Even eccentric Jadk Paar could discuss serious subjects, and Dick Cavett was wonderful. did 't you love Bill Budkly's arcane vocabulary, even if you wanted to strangle him? His son's book, Caring for Mum and Pup, is funny and poignant. Christopher is a fine writer himself, without his Dad's political passion.
Gore Vidal could be infuriating but never never boring!

marjifay · « **Reply #3446 on:** August 02, 2012, 12:28:25 PM »

Yes, I loved both the Dick Cavett and Jack Paar shows. Buckley's arcane language was funny. I had to think a bit about the "pro-crypto-Nazi" insult. Wish Buckley's old TV shows were available, but I can't find them. I'll get Christopher Buckley's book. Thanks.

Marj

Frybabe · « **Reply #3447 on:** August 02, 2012, 02:04:10 PM »

I loved Bill Buckley's programs, except that his flicking tongue was terribly distracting. I got more out of his program when I didn't actually look at him.

JeanneP · « **Reply #3448 on:** August 02, 2012, 02:59:14 PM »

Does anyone remember the "Priest" that use to be on the TV giving Talks? Was years ago. Not about religion all the time. Use to get onto some really good subjects.

jeriron · « **Reply #3449 on:** August 02, 2012, 03:08:21 PM »

Bishop Sheen

CallieOK · « **Reply #3450 on:** August 02, 2012, 03:58:42 PM »

Who was the British interviewer...David (??)? He was very good, also.

Closest I've found these days is Charlie Rose on PBS - and he's worse about interupting or "opining" instead of letting his guest talk than he used to be.

JeanneP · « **Reply #3451 on:** August 02, 2012, 04:11:19 PM »

Jeriron. You are right. He was so funny at times. Reminded me of a Priest in our Parrish in U.K.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #3452 on:** August 02, 2012, 04:13:25 PM »

David Frost

CallieOK · « **Reply #3453 on:** August 02, 2012, 07:19:28 PM »

Thank you, Mabel. Whatever happened to him? Is he still living?

Dana · « **Reply #3454 on:** August 02, 2012, 08:22:34 PM »

I think depressing books must vary for each reader and hit some chord in oneself,perhaps related to the time and circumstances in which the book is read, but worthy of some self reflection. I found "The Lonely Passion of Judith Hearne ' deeply depressing (Brian Moore), for example, but others might not. I did not think Anna K. was depressing. I think I was unable to empathise with her , but can't altogether remember...it was so long ago I read it (so I might feel quite differently now).

MaryPage · « **Reply #3455 on:** August 02, 2012, 09:47:44 PM »

No, it was Rosamunde Pilcher who wrote THE SHELL SEEKERS.

My puter had to leave for hospital last Friday morning and did not come back until late this afternoon.
Diagnosis was some kind of virus that hides itself inside a real and running program and is almost undetectable. Undetectable except that it makes putering miserable and then miserabler.
Did you hear about the 4 year old who was in the room while his parents were watching the news? Our President's picture appeared and, thinking it a teaching moment, his dad asked the child if he knew who that was. The child replied that it was Barack Obama. The mother then asked if the little boy knew what Barack Obama did. The child thought a moment and replied with gusto: "He Approved This Message!"

Octavia · « **Reply #3456 on:** August 03, 2012, 05:21:28 AM »

Lovely, one nil to the child

Babi · « **Reply #3457 on:** August 03, 2012, 08:38:41 AM »

One of the magazines had an excerpt from "Caring For Mum and Pup", and I was delighted
with it. I knew nothing of the son of those two well-known figures, and very much enjoyed
finding how well Christopher Buckley could write. Had anyone read anything else of his?

Steph · « **Reply #3458 on:** August 03, 2012, 08:40:14 AM »

Oh I loved that answer. I am so tired of political ads and it is only August. Bah..

bellemere · « **Reply #3459 on:** August 03, 2012, 10:12:46 AM »

watching a movie biblical epic with son when hwas about9, I asked if he knew whohis namesake , the prophet (John the Baptist) was, and he answered right away, "Charlton Heston."

Tomereader1 · « **Reply #3460 on:** August 03, 2012, 01:37:46 PM »

Now, a note about "books". Last night I had the privilege of moderating "Run" by Ann Patchett, at our library book club. I did cadge a couple of comments/questions from the discussion here, and "thank you all". We had a lively, very intuitive discussion. We had our usual compliment of six members, and everyone participated fully (which is not always the case, if you know f2f book groups!) with comment, interpretation and readings from the book. We also touched (very briefly in passing) on Patchett's other books. One other member and I have read "Bel Canto" three times, one (a new member) had not read it at all, but wrote it down in her notebook for future reading! I love to see that happen.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #3461 on:** August 04, 2012, 06:44:13 AM »

here is a fun site - find out which Jane Austen Heroine you are -
http://www.strangegirl.com/emma/quiz.php

Steph · « **Reply #3462 on:** August 04, 2012, 08:48:44 AM »

State of Wonder.. Wow.. it gets wilder and wilder. I am now officially so confused. No idea how the mysterious doctor who hides out in the jungle convinces all of these people to be her protectors, but that seems to be the case.

Babi · « **Reply #3463 on:** August 05, 2012, 08:28:05 AM »

BELLE, that's a classic!

Hmm. It appears I am Elinor Dashwood. Okay, I like Elinor.

Steph · « **Reply #3464 on:** August 05, 2012, 09:21:21 AM »

I am now deep in the jungle.. Part of the plot seems to be that no matter what she does or does not do. Her luggage is always lost.. Each place she lands,. she loses clothes.. Even on her arrival with the tribe.. How weird, but knowing Patchett, this has a meaning.. This book is going to be a more than once read to figure out what is happening.

pedln · « **Reply #3465 on:** August 05, 2012, 09:54:20 AM »

Quote

This book is going to be a more than once read to figure out what is happening.

It gets curiouser and curiouser.

JeanneP · « **Reply #3466 on:** August 05, 2012, 04:13:06 PM »

We now have 2 new young writers in my small city who are being recognized all over the globe.Marianne Malone the name of one and her book is named "The sixty-Eight Rooms. A book that revolving around the Thorne Miniature Rooms that are at the Art Institute of Chicago. Going to be a series of 5 more books now. The other young lady is Julia Cross. Who started writing in 2009. Her first book is "Tempest" Both sound so good. Will see if I can order. Bound to be a waiting list as both still living in C/U.

bellemere · « **Reply #3467 on:** August 05, 2012, 08:44:20 PM »

I injoyed State of wonder, even though it si a wildly improbable ride! What a premise: that some numbskill pharmaceutical company thought a drug that would enable women to become pregnant into their seventies would be a boon to humanity and a big seller for them. Please.
As Joan Rivers would say.

MaryPage · « **Reply #3468 on:** August 05, 2012, 08:53:24 PM »

I am Anne Elliott of Persuasion. Not too shabby.

That is what the test results were.

Actually, I am Fanny of Mansfield Park, but the questions did not always fit my case. I mean, I really WOULD BE Fanny if I had to be an Austen heroine. The one I would most LIKE to be is Emma. But of course!

Steph · « **Reply #3469 on:** August 06, 2012, 08:50:04 AM »

To my amazement and regret I finished State of Wonder last night. I will digest it and then sometimes in the next month reread it. That is probably the wildest ride I can imagine.. Full of joy and sorrow and regret and amazement at the way they presented the trees, mushrooms and drug apps.. My oh My.. do you supposed drug companies finance that sort of research?? Who knows. I feel like walking around, grabbing readers and saying.. Readthis.. You will simply be aroused and happy at the plot and descriptions. I am delighted I found something I really really loved his summer to read.

Babi · « **Reply #3470 on:** August 06, 2012, 09:37:52 AM »

"Improbable" doesn't begin to cover that idea, BELLE. What idiot could possibly think
women would want to become pregnant late in life, starting all over again with babies
and teens!

Have you put "State of Wonder" into the list of books suggested for discussion, STEPH.
With so enthusiastic a reaction, I would think it an ideal candidate.

pedln · « **Reply #3471 on:** August 06, 2012, 10:09:23 AM »

Pregnant in your 70's? My youngest daughter worked in a Mayan village in Guatemala several years ago. What she learned from the women there was that they did not want to be like "so and so" in their village, over fifty and with a 5-year-old.

Of course, my next youngest comes close. She'll be 50 when her daughter is eight. But that is not considered unusual any more, as more and more women postpone child-bearing. Are we heading in that direction, will there be some kind of prescription to slow down the clock?

I"m currently reading Grisham's The Litigators and am ready to believe anything about Big Pharma, except that their biggest concern is the health of the public.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #3472 on:** August 06, 2012, 01:11:26 PM »

Claude and CamilleI think someone else here read this, if so tell me what you thought.

This is a fictionalized story of Claude and Camille Monet. For about two-thirds of the book i was bored, primarily bacause i have read other fiction about artists, particularly Pissarro, Van Gogh of this era, and Michelangelo. So i know the stories of the failed exhibitions and the dislike of their impressionistic paintings. The stories are so similar - poverty, passion, obssession on the art, self-centered artist. It made me question whether to be a renown artist, one has to be a little insane? In order to be a person who creates something that is new does one have to be singularly focused, perservering and self-centered?

The last third of the book was the most interesting for me because there was more focus on relationships and less on the rejection of his paintings and the poverty.

If you have not read any stories, fiction or non-fiction, about the impressionists, you may enjoy this. I believe the author has done good research and gives a good account of their situations. I will look for other books by her.

Jean

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #3473 on:** August 06, 2012, 01:56:06 PM »

Quote

In order to be a person who creates something that is new does one have to be singularly focused, persevering and self-centered?

could apply to Steve Jobs - it maybe how we look at their drive and describe what we see that is different - their obsession we see as anti-social to the point of being rude - I wonder if it is more the person who brings their new ideas to public attention and acceptance rather than being someone who creates -

I guess I am thinking of Apple and it was Steve Wozniak who had most of the creative solutions and ideas but it was Steve Jobs who found the money and created the company that included his concept of good design. I think there are many Nobel Prize winners who created new concepts that their names are only known in their field of work and some names are just that names of folks who created but did not push their notoriety or start a company based in their creation. I am thinking an artist to be successful must be a small business or, sell to a Gallery who will bring the business aspects like pricing, marketing and publicity to their work.

Seems to me Picasso had one of his wives handle the business end of his creativity. And Warhol was as much a showman as an artist creating a system that as many as 70 other artists did the work of painting at his direction - so what is that - the creation must be as much the system and publicity as creating unique artwork.

Himm great question to ponder - what creative works that become part of the social fabric is really about the art, music, science etc. and what works are part of history because of creative marketing or publicity that may even have resulted from who purchased the creative idea. I am thinking those whose work was commissioned by Kings and Popes.

Wow my brain is going with this - I wonder is that why so many want to tell you about famous people they know - there is this unspoken knowledge that knowing and getting a nod from fame brings you into the circle if you are focused on bringing something to public attention...

mabel1015j · « **Reply #3474 on:** August 06, 2012, 03:43:05 PM »

I also thought about James Audubon. I remember when we read his autobio in non-fiction and how upset i was at his treatment of his wife. All of the creative guys i have read about, including the ones i've mentioned, and Rodin also, gave no shrift to their families, especially their wives. They just take off for months or years at a time and control the lives of everyone in the family, either directly or indirectly.

I guess politicians have been similar and then Henry Ford and JD Rockefellerwere similar. Barb, i haven't yet read the Steve Jobs bio, but i will just to see how similar his life is to these guys. Which brings another question, is this a "guy-thing"? The women i can think of were mostly unmarried. And of women in general, most "famous" women whose names we know for great accmplishments have been single, or have no children, or have accomplished after their children are grown, they are widowed, or their marriages are "done" ala Eleanor Roosevelt. I've forgotten what Mary Cassatt's status was. Lillian Helman was married to another author later in her life and had no children.

Tell me who else you can think of ? ( my 9th grade English teacher wouldn't like that
sentence

)

Jean

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #3475 on:** August 06, 2012, 06:40:58 PM »

Seems to me Elizabeth Cady Stanton had a mess of kids - but then she still has not been given the accolades of Susan B. Anthony. -

I'm thinking society is uncomfortable with a mom figure as a creative genius or someone at the top of the heap - I am thinking it is a guy thing only in that we are still a patriarchal society that has greater meaning than if or not women are subservient to men. The system is laid out in a way that change means we have to buck it and all women have been able to accomplish is a few bulges. However, it remains a system laid out with the values and success-marks of a patriarchal system. And so, what was and still is acceptable - in fact revered as qualities towards creative success - are what woman have been willing to adopt just to show they can do it as they try to get equal access to the system. However, the system still does not honor women as wives and mothers achieving creative excellence.

Oh, we are given all sorts of roses and there is a statue to pioneer women who were only doing a man's job while birthing and caring for children. There are still lots of folks, for the most part they call themselves Christian who hang on to the past and would like it if we still held high the social values before the 1920s which again is promoting and keeping alive the system.

None of us think our own boys, and for some of us our husbands and male family members, are all that bad - we do not label them - we need to believe we have family love and respect - in the face of our emotional reaction to the males in our lives how does each family teach a mind-set change - How - we do not have a kind, gentle way suggested by anyone how to confront loved ones without setting up a mini war -

How are systems changed - we are talking major here - heck laws don't do it - we have lots of progress on race equality but then every week we are reminded we still have not as a society crossed the Rubicon -

I do not think all the ways the patriarchal system touches society have been listed, noted much less cataloged with an agreement as to what an equal society would look like. Some think equal simply means being accepted to do what the boys do within a patriarchal system. What would an equal system look like...?

Look at all the moms who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan - how many have lost their lives - and yet, we still do not have any women featured in any of the reports - there is this underlying embarrassment that most folks think woman soldiers, not the guys, but the women should be home with their children.

Patriarchy says women should find their success in childrearing and men should, at all risk and cost, have adventure and creative success. Let me ask the question Mabel - what women in recent history that stood up for equality is equally revered and glorified as a man - they still even make in fun of Hillary Clinton - and with this new TV program that has taken off about the 50s - haven't seen it but it brings chills as I did see the caste on the Charlie Rose show explaining their characters along with the producer/writer and recently if you notice the news is filled with Marilyn Monroe - McNamara can own up to his mistake but we still will not forgive Jane Fonda -

Oh, we can get angry with those who seem to have blinders on and are heading for one acceptable morality but it is the system, not those who live by the system - The big question - How is a system changed when the power is in the system.

After years of reading book after book about power and power-over the best answer I found is in a novel that takes place in Italy, during WWII, when marauding German soldiers without leadership, no officers or even Sergeant’s who they had to obey, were guilty of all the horrors we can imagine - why - because as the author said, they can - because in a group they identify with the 'I can' behavior that makes it right – as small children boys are handed a sense of entitlement - the book - History: A Novel

http://www.amazon.com/History-A-Novel-Elsa-Morante/dp/1586420046/ref=la_B000APLY00_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344290868&sr=1-1

All to say a book is written that includes a Bio to match the values admired within our system. A story focuses on those characteristics that allow a page to be turned - they do not publish books that are accurate but will sit on a shelf because the author does not hit the socially revered sweet spots.

bellemere · « **Reply #3476 on:** August 06, 2012, 08:40:52 PM »

How do systems change, great question. I read one article about the practice of foot-binding in China. It was a deeply ingrained custom, but it changed. Not from any outside force but from a realization that it was wrong, backward, cruel and unnecessary. and now it is gone. let's hope female muilation goes the same route. In our own time, look at cigarette smoking, another practice that took outside forces, the scientifric research that showed the link to disease, to move it from a habit of most adults to the habit if a few. So change comes from inside and outside. In our time, I think the appeal to rationality and common sense is a pwerful motive for change, We respect technology.
I think the women today have far more chances for rewarding careers then the women of my generation. I watched it with my five daughters. the oldest have chosen tradional careers: a teacher, a medical seretary, a registered nurse. Then comes the founder of a thriving marketing communication business, and an executive recruiter for a great university. I don't know any details of salaries, but I think the last two are making more than twice the salary of any of the others. The real difference is, they don't just like their jobs, they are passionate about them.
and ye, they are all moms.

Babi · « **Reply #3477 on:** August 07, 2012, 08:07:04 AM »

Considering some of the works that museums have hung at great cost, I would have to
think that it was the result of great marketing. I wouldn't want one of them on my walls
if they were given away. Mondrian...I simply don't get him at all.

I like your thinking, BELLE. I hadn't thought of it that way before, but common sense and
rationality are making a sound impact today. Look at all the people who thinking more sensibly
about their diets, and getting more exercise. A good idea can always make an impact, it enough
people hear about it.

Steph · « **Reply #3478 on:** August 07, 2012, 10:34:29 AM »

I think that many things are cyclic..But in the smoking, I think that more and more costs, plus places you can smoke cause a number of people to give it up. I also think that that is why jr. high students smoke..They are at the heigth of rebellion and smoking is an easy way to show off their independence..

bellemere · « **Reply #3479 on:** August 07, 2012, 11:18:08 AM »

Just a quick look back at late life pregnancy. My mom's Newfoundland neighbor had an expression f or it: She called it "getting caught on the turn."
I think I will gtry to do some more reading about system chang. The author Malcolm Gladwell has a book, "The Tipping Point, that I can get on audio. From reviews, I gather it deals with systemmic change. anybody reqd it?

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Author Topic: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2 (Read 774893 times)