Author Topic: Kim by Rudyard Kipling ~ January Book Club Online - Pre-discussion (Read 28866 times)

elizabeth84 · « **Reply #40 on:** December 08, 2009, 12:52:09 AM »

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Kim

by
Rudyard Kipling

You may have read "Kim" as a young
adult, but it's a whole different book
for grown-ups. Join us on January 1
to find out why "Kim" has been beloved
by young and old for over 100 years.

He sat, in defiance of municipal orders, astride the gun Zam-Zammah on her brick platform
opposite the old Ajaib-Gher--the Wonder House, as the natives call the Lahore museum.

DIscussion Leaders: JoanK & PatH

Online Texts of Kim

Project Gutenberg ~ The Literature Network ~ Read Books Online

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Hi everyone; I'll come along too. Elizabeth

Babi · « **Reply #41 on:** December 08, 2009, 09:13:25 AM »

One never knows the influence a book will have. Thanks for the Dulles'
story, Jonathan. As to what novel I would like at my bedside in my last
days,...I'd have to give that considerable thought.

PatH · « **Reply #42 on:** December 08, 2009, 09:22:19 AM »

Quote from: Jonathan on December 07, 2009, 10:05:16 PM

Now then. What novel would you like to leave bedside, when you find your river of enlightenment?

Remarkably interesting question, Jonathan, not too easy to answer. It ought to be one of Jane Austen's novels, but given my actual bedtime reading habits, it will be some piece of Space Opera, and I will have gone to my reward while fighting my way across the galaxy.

PatH · « **Reply #43 on:** December 08, 2009, 09:25:02 AM »

Welcome, Elizabeth! It's great to have you with us. Have you read "Kim" before?

elizabeth84 · « **Reply #44 on:** December 08, 2009, 12:44:23 PM »

Indeed I have read Kim before--on a regular basis. Allen Dulles fared badly in a history I just read about U.S. and Middle East relations dating back to Washington's time--Power, Faith and Fantasy by Michael Oren--so I'm not sure I'm happy about his invasion of my "favorites" space.

I'm pretty sure I'll have one of the Aubrey/Maturin (Patrick O'Brian) novels at my bedside when The Next Big Event occurs. It's a 20-volume series and I join the gang every night before closing my eyes.

PatH · « **Reply #45 on:** December 08, 2009, 01:12:54 PM »

Quote from: elizabeth84 on December 08, 2009, 12:44:23 PM

I'm pretty sure I'll have one of the Aubrey/Maturin (Patrick O'Brian) novels at my bedside when The Next Big Event occurs. It's a 20-volume series and I join the gang every night before closing my eyes.

That would probably have been my answer several years ago, but now I've read them all, some of them more than once, and they're getting a rest. Come to think of it, they're still on a shelf above my bed.

JoanK · « **Reply #46 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:23:51 PM »

Another Patrick O'Brian fan!! And a Kim fan as well!! WELCOME, WELCOME.

Do you have the book that PatH has, giving recipes for all the food mentioned by O'Brian? (I just came from the Books and Food discussion (holiday Open house), so you see where my mind is).

Frybabe · « **Reply #47 on:** December 08, 2009, 07:31:37 PM »

Uh oh, I just found two more books I "need" to buy. A book I am now reading references the Crimean War. It is a war and place I know very, very little about. When I decided to find some images of the area I ran across Fanny Duberly. She rode along side her husband and the 8th Regiment all during the war and wrote a book about it called Crimean Journal.

What has this to do with Kim you ask? Well, as if this weren't enough excitement, she went along with her husband once again when his regiment was called up to India for the Sepoy Wars (1854ish?). Her book about that one is called Indian Journal.

Oh and I am now reading The Great Game: The Struggle for Empire in Central Asia by Peter Hopkirk while waiting on our January discussion. PatH, was that you who mentioned you are reading this also? I forget.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #48 on:** December 08, 2009, 09:59:48 PM »

Jonathan mentioned The Great Game and I've reserved it at the library. My library doesn't have Duberly's books.

Frybabe · « **Reply #49 on:** December 09, 2009, 12:35:45 AM »

Johnathon's The Great Game is by a different author. The Great Game seems to be a popular title for books dealing with this area and period of time. There are several.

Barnes and Nobles has both book Duberly books and several others.

PatH · « **Reply #50 on:** December 09, 2009, 08:29:58 AM »

Right, Frybabe. I'm reading the Hopkirk, and Jonathan is reading TOURNAMENT OF SHADOWS, by Meyer and Brysac, subtitled The Great Game and the Race for Empire in Central Asia.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #51 on:** December 09, 2009, 12:26:32 PM »

Tournament of Shadows is the one waiting at the library for me.

PatH · « **Reply #52 on:** December 09, 2009, 02:55:48 PM »

It's great that a lot of us are reading background, but rest assured, everyone, that you don't have to know any of it to enjoy the book.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #53 on:** December 09, 2009, 03:26:53 PM »

I agree; the book stands alone quite well. When I read it first Afghanistan was only a name; some movies like Gunga Din, Tales of the Bengal Lancers, and others I can't recall, told about those mountains and the fierce tribesmen who lived and fought there. They would get mixed up in my brain with the movies about India starring Sabu (remember him?). Kim entices on many levels, and The Great Game is not the greatest (pardon the pun). Kim the character is most appealing to me, perhaps because I am a woman and always get hooked by the personal.

elizabeth84 · « **Reply #54 on:** December 09, 2009, 05:35:03 PM »

Another wonderful novel about an English boy who grew up thinking he was Indian is The Far Pavilions by M.M. Kaye. I believe I love that book as much as I do Kim. He also becomes part of The Great Game as an adult.

JoanK · « **Reply #55 on:** December 14, 2009, 07:58:39 PM »

Has anyone seen the PBS preograms "The Story of India" that have been airing lately? I missed one last night.

Jonathan · « **Reply #56 on:** December 15, 2009, 05:30:18 PM »

I don't see anything about India on the local PBS schedule. Would that be the Michael Wood 'In Search of India' doc, which was run here some time ago? It was very good.

What an enchanting storyteller Kipling is. I'm reading some of his other stuff, yesterday his story of the ghostly children in THEY, with Kipling obviously still mourning the loss of his little daughter. That put me into such a peculiar frame of mind, that I promptly had Kipling's ghost appear in a dream last night. With the most astounding request. Would I channel him into the forthcoming discussion of KIM. The consideration of this unusual proposal in the company of Kipling's ghost made for the most spine-tingling dream I have ever had. I had to decline. The honor was just too great. But I did let him know that we always relish the participation of the author in our discussions. It may come to pass while we're sojourning in India.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #57 on:** December 15, 2009, 06:38:26 PM »

He was a believer in faerie, wasn't he? We can only hope he drops in. What a treat it would be to hear his impressions of the current situation among India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Babi · « **Reply #58 on:** December 16, 2009, 08:51:45 AM »

Quote

Would I channel him into the forthcoming discussion of KIM.

JONATHAN, I swear I don't know whether this actually happened or is 'tongue in cheek'. I've had a lot of most illuminating dreams, but never a request from a ghost to be channeled!

PatH · « **Reply #59 on:** December 16, 2009, 10:09:42 AM »

Well, Jonathan, I was regretting that we would be unable to get author participation in this discussion, but perhaps Kipling's spirit will be with us after all.

PatH · « **Reply #60 on:** December 16, 2009, 11:19:21 AM »

Kipling wrote a number of ghost and horror stories. I have a big fat book of them, which includes "They"--indeed unforgettable. The one that impresses a lot of people is "The Mark of the Beast", but for some reason that one doesn't work for me.

He also wrote one Science Fiction short story: "With the Night Mail--A Tale of AD 2000". Written in 1905, it tells of a mail-delivery service by means of airplanes. It reads like some of his other short stories which are conversations between members of some group with their own jargon and rules.

JoanK · « **Reply #61 on:** December 16, 2009, 07:21:30 PM »

JONATHAN: it's called "The Story of India", but the narrator does look like Michael Wood, so it may be the old one recycled.

I hope Kipling does show up.

fairanna · « **Reply #62 on:** December 18, 2009, 02:21:01 AM »

I have found it really interesting to re read a book after many years ..So Kim is on its way from B&N plus a couple of others I CAN NEVER ORDER OR BUY JUST ONE BOOK<<<here it is a bit after 2 AM and I just finished a small book called A Creed County Christmas I enjoyed it .......pleasant , easy to read and rather nice story...I am in my nice story phase..I go though cycles ..and this is my nice story cycle But the best way to read a book is with others ..so I will be with you and see how much I recall when we begin....Hmm I am wondering who used to write stories about space and people there? because that just came to me And I read several of his works ...going to bed ...see you later..

PatH · « **Reply #63 on:** December 18, 2009, 06:59:31 AM »

Welcome, Anna, it's good to have you with us.

PatH · « **Reply #64 on:** December 18, 2009, 07:16:24 AM »

Quote from: fairanna on December 18, 2009, 02:21:01 AM

Hmm I am wondering who used to write stories about space and people there?

That fits a huge number of writers. Give us some more details.

Gumtree · « **Reply #65 on:** December 18, 2009, 11:49:04 AM »

Maybe H G Wells?

marcie · « **Reply #66 on:** December 18, 2009, 11:51:33 AM »

fairanna, it's great that you'll be joining the Kim discussion.

Is it Ray Bradbury, eg, Martian Chronicles, you have in mind?

Jonathan · « **Reply #67 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:40:35 PM »

KIM has a fantastic spatial dimension. And there's no lack of people moving about in it.

Jonathan · « **Reply #68 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:45:11 PM »

Pat, I like your choice of bedside reading. Galactic travels!!! We'll look for you among the stars.

Jonathan · « **Reply #69 on:** December 18, 2009, 02:15:18 PM »

I've chosen to leave behind, bedside, my eight-volume set of John Kendrick Bangs' humorous writings. I had never heard of him until I found his A House-boat on the Styx, a first edition, at an antique fair. As the title suggests, one doesn't have to cross that river if one can afford a berth on the house-boat and party forever in the company of distinguished 'shades' of historical figures... George Washington, Socrates, Hamlet, Sir Walter, and on and on and on. Everything is fine until the wives come aboard and hi-jack the boat, which inevitably led to another volume, The Pursuit of the House-boat: Being Some Further Account of the Divers Doings of the Associated Shades, under the Leadership of Sherlock Holmes, Esq.

I know it sounds frivolous, and I had decided to go with The Sayings of Confucious, to make it seem like I hadn't wasted my life, but I believe Confucious is on the passenger list, so he's there for consultation.

For those who are unacquainted with Bangs, he was writing and made quite a noise as a contemporary of Kipling's. He was editor of one of the big popular periodicals. Methinks it was McCall's.

JoanK · « **Reply #70 on:** December 18, 2009, 03:16:57 PM »

Jonathan: Bangs sounds like a hoot. I haven't picked out my book yet.

ANNAFAIR: WELCOME, WELCOME. You're the perfect person to have along. You will be making friends with everyone we pass (and that's a LOT of people) and giving them cookies too.

Once you think of Kipling, you see him everywhere. I'm reading a detective story by Robin Paige (Murder at the Lizard), a husband/wife duo who write Victorian/Edwardian mysteries that include hisdtorical characters. This one is about Marconi and his efforts to get his wireless system working.

The characters mention that Kipling wrote a short story named "Wireless" about the new technology. In this story, the wireless proves to be able to channel messages from the dead, and a character is receiving new poems from the dead poet Byron.

JoanK · « **Reply #71 on:** December 18, 2009, 03:26:21 PM »

Stupid me. I forgot that they (Robin Paige) wrote a mystery with Kipling as a character.-- "Murder at Rottingdean". Unfortunately, the reason I forgot it was I thought it was the poorest of their mysteries.

PatH · « **Reply #72 on:** December 18, 2009, 03:27:44 PM »

JoanK, don't tell me you've forgotten John Kendrick Bangs? A number of his books were kicking around the house when we were growing up. I remember "The Houseboat on the Styx" quite well.

elizabeth84 · « **Reply #73 on:** December 20, 2009, 09:54:33 PM »

I just got down my old copy of Kim and see that I wrote in the front, "Kipling's first employer, William Rattigan--a founder of the Civil and Military Gazette, Lahore, India--was the model for Kim. His grandson, Sir Terence Rattigan, told Kipling that his grandfather was the son of an illiterate Irish private in the British Army in India whose son (William Rattigan) by some means, got to the H.S. in Agra in the 1850's, subsequently to King's College in Londen and Gottengen University. He became a successful lawyer with a "society" wife."

Babi · « **Reply #74 on:** December 21, 2009, 08:30:51 AM »

Ah, sure, and these Irishmen can be real scrappers. Many an Irishman
hauled himself up by his own bootstraps and made something grand of himself. Our Irish immigrants were second only to the Germans in the
number who came here. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of us
could claim some Irish ancestry. May I introduce my paternal grandmother (died before I was born, sadly) Missoula Mineola Riley!

Gumtree · « **Reply #75 on:** December 21, 2009, 09:59:00 AM »

PatH & JoanK I wasn't going to commit myself to Kim as I'll be busy during January - anyway I couldn't find my copy which is either buried on the shelves or has been spirited away by a son who denies all knowledge of it. Then today I fell over a copy of it at the library so naturally brought it home. So I guess I'm hooked though it's unlikely that I will do much more than lurk.

And yes, Babi the Irish sure did get around. My DH and I both have Irish forebears in the mix a few generations ago - as in fact, do most Aussies of my generation.

PatH · « **Reply #76 on:** December 21, 2009, 01:57:59 PM »

Gumtree, it's good to have you with us, lurking or active.

Elizabeth, that's an interesting point about the model for Kim. I think we'll find out that the book is more based on fact than one might suppose.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #77 on:** December 21, 2009, 02:51:58 PM »

It's time to start my Kim prep so I'm looking at the different editions; did someone mention one with footnotes or annotations? Amazon has an interesting book, out in March this year, Kipling Sahib: India and the making of Rudyard Kipling, 1865-1900. My library doesn't have it so I may have to buy it. Jonathan mentioned Tournament of shadows : the great game and the race for empire in Central Asia / Karl E. Meyer & Shareen Blair Brysac which my library has so I checked it out.

PatH · « **Reply #78 on:** December 21, 2009, 07:49:40 PM »

At this rate, you will all know more than I do by the time the discussion starts. Fine by me.

Babi · « **Reply #79 on:** December 22, 2009, 08:23:31 AM »

My copy doesn't have footnotes, but I can always google. Actually, I seem to find 'Bing' come up most often in my searches nowadas. I love
researching, so that's all to the good.

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Author Topic: Kim by Rudyard Kipling ~ January Book Club Online - Pre-discussion (Read 28866 times)