Moonstone, The by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online

[JudeS]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

The Moonstone
Wilkie Collins

In T.S. Eliot called The Moonstone "the first and greatest English detective novel." Told from the standpoint of several, very different, very British characters, it is the funny, irreverent, dramatic, romantic, very British story of the theft of an Indian jewel taken from the eye of an idol and then stolen again from a very British country house by mysterious Indians. Come and join us: I'll bet you can't guess "whodunit" and what they did!     Discussion Schedule: April 15-21: Through section XI in Gabriel Betteredge's narrativeo April 21-25:   Betteredge's narrative, up to THE END OF THE FIRST PERIOD April 26-May 1: SECOND PERIOD: first two narratives:Miss Clack and Mr. Bruff May 2-6: the first part of Franklin Blake's narrative, through Chapter VII, ending with "I saw her, and heard her, no more". May 7-11: Franklin Blake's narrative, Chapter VIII to end, all of Ezra Jennings' Narrative. Related Links::Gutenberg electronic text

For Your Consideration
May 10-?  The rest of the book.

1. Nowdays mystery readers expect an author to "play fair"--give enough information so the reader has at least some chance of guessing the solution.  Does Collins play fair?

2. The opening and closing scenes of the book take place in India, and deal with events in the moonstone's history.  What does this do for the book?

3. How is a part of Ablewhite's life something like Collins'?  How did they differ in this?

4. We see four people or groups who are foreign to various degrees, by birth, training, or experience: The Indians, Mr. Murthwaite, Ezra Jenkins, and Franklin Blake.  How does their foreignness affect the people around them?  How does it affect you?

5. How does this book reflect the ideas and concerns of its time and place? How, if at all, are his ideas advanced for his time?

DISCUSSION LEADERS: JoanK &  PatH

Moll Flanders sounds like a fascinating read.
After Robinson Crusoe's lack of female companionship on his island, for years and years, what could a writer desire more than a story of a woman and many men.
Yes, from an isolated lonely male, to a woman who has many men.
Lets see how many people will go for it. I know I will.

[PatH]

There are two pairs of characters who are somewhat alike but have opposite fates.

Rosanna and Rachel: Both are intelligent and strong-minded.

Rosanna is plain and deformed, born into wretched circumstances, with no decent road to making her way in the world.  She loves Franklin Blake, but can’t even get him to look at her.

Rachel is beautiful, rich, with a loving family.  She loves Franklin Blake, and can have him if she chooses.

I wonder how much pity Rachel felt for Rosanna.

Ezra Jennings and Franklin Blake are more alike.

Jennings is an honorable man who has been falsely accused of something, and can’t prove his innocence.  He has lost the woman he loves because of this, and his life is blighted.

Blake is honorable and is under suspicion of a crime, which has alienated the woman he loves, but he has the possibility of clearing himself.

I don’t know about the first pair, but I think Collins meant Jennings and Blake to be the opposite sides of the coin.  That is why they are so attracted to each other, and sympathetic to each other.  Blake sees in Jennings what could happen to him, and Jennings sees a vicarious second chance in Blake.

Why were they attracted to each other before they knew each other’s stories?  I’m not sure, though it’s a trick of romantic writers to have instant sympathy between characters who are going to be close.  I caught the same homoerotic whiff that Jonathan did, but I have no idea how seriously Collins meant it.

[JoanK]

THat's a really interesting comparison. Rosanna and jennings as the dark possibilities of Rachel and Franklin. I'll bet Collins had that in mind.

We don't know what Rachel thought of Rosanna. She clearly didn't "recognize" her alter ego, as Franklin did.

I caught homo-erotic whiffs, too. but Collins may not have meant them. Cultural differences may have made men more open then in expression of affection for other men, as they did for women.

[BarbStAubrey]

hmm not sure what is going on - I hurried up and finished last week since it appeared we were summing up and talking about the entire book and how we liked it and what characters we liked etc. - I felt a bit bereft in that I thought we had not talked about this book as long as we usually do - a month or breaking it into 4 parts - and now I see another whole week is added as if we did not finish up last week - so I am totally confused and have no idea what we are to talk about this week. Please help me out here - wa-happened...?

[PatH]

We tried to adjust the speed of the discussion to fit how fast people were reading the book.  (This isn't always easy, since people read at different speeds and have different amounts of time available for reading.)  So we went slowly at first, but then sped up as people got into it and started reading more.  So when it looked like a lot of people had either finished or were impatient to finish, we announced a move to the last section early, on the 10th.  We couldn't afford to dawdle, since it's a mystery.  It was divided into 6 parts--the structure of the book constrained the divisions.

In theory the discussion is over, but we can keep it open as long as anyone has anything to say.

[JoanK]

This was a great discussion. The time has come to leave it, but if anyone has anything more to say, please do.

Now off to look at the short stories.

[Scottieluvr]

I'm adding Robinson Crusoe and Moll Flanders to my June reading... I love lurking on these discussions. 

[PatH]

Pamela, I appreciate that even when you're lurking, you come in and say hi.  That encourages the discussion leaders.

[JoanP]

"Collins meant Jennings and Blake to be the opposite sides of the coin" PatH

Quite an interesting character analysis, Pat -   I think Collins put himself in Franklin Blake's character...but wonder on whom he based the complex character of Ezra Jennings.  Perhaps we'll never know of any relationship between Collins and such a man.

What did you think of Collins attempt at a detective mystery?  Have you read  his eerie  Woman in White 1860? -  Moonstone 1868 must have been a challenge for him...expecially with an audience expecting the same depth of passion as in Woman in White...

Can't leave this group without thanking our dedicated leaders...Many thanks, JoanK and PatH.  As we've noticed, it isn't easy to lead a month long discussion when it's a whodunnit - with everyone reading at a different rate.  But you did it!

Moll Flanders?  Now that would be an interesting discussion, wouldn't it?  Will someone put it in the suggestion box for the future?  As JoanK says, the next group discussion will focus on 10 short stories...starting June 1.  Hope everyone can join us.

[PatH]

JoanP, I don't know where Collins got the rest of Jennings' character, but the description of Jennings' opium use--the horrible dreams, the conflict between wanting to ease the pain and wanting to avoid the awful effects, the built-up tolerance for large doses, etc., is supposed to be Collins' description of himself, and medically accurate.

I've read The Woman in White several times, one of them in that fine discussion you led here.

Waafer, you mentioned wanting to read The Woman in White.  It's got a mystery too, with the hero doing the detecting, but it's more a suspense story with ghostly overtones.  It's got a memorable villain too--the hilariously colorful Count Fosco.  As here, it's told through the narratives of the participants.  It's even longer than The Moonstone, so be prepared for a long session.

[JoanP]

Oh wow, Pat!  That makes Franklin Blake and Ezra Jennings two sides of one coin, that coin being Wilkie Collins himself!  I'm just now getting it.


I found the article on Wilkie's EARLY YEARS in France and ITALY- and right off, recognized Franklin Blake...
 http://www.wilkie-collins.info/wilkie_collins_biography.htm

[Frybabe]

Very interesting, JoanP. I clicked on the memoir of his dad. Good looking guy.

[JoanK]

The more I think of it, the more sense it makes. And this explains the attraction between them: they each see each other as what they might have been.

[Jonathan]

Thanks, JoanP, for the link in 450. It does help with the  curious mystery suggested by Pat's ideas about the Blake/Jennings relationship. So, we have one mystery solved, only to be left with a greater one.

I found the biographical information about Collins very interesting. It does explain some things about the book. But I can't get over the Collins grave at the bottom of the page. Miss Clack would have been impressed by the monumental cross marking the author's grave. And it leaves another mystery.

Collins, we've been led to believe, was not a religious man, with his 'unorthodox lifestyle', his 'Bohemian lifestyle', 'his enigmatic lifestyle'. Did he experience a deathbed conversion? Like the Earl of Rochester in the time of Charles II? This is worth following up.

[Frybabe]

Good heavens, what suffering he must have gone through at the end. He did not die easily.

[PatH]

Miss Clack would have been impressed by the monumental cross marking the author's grave. And it leaves another mystery.
Collins, we've been led to believe, was not a religious man, with his 'unorthodox lifestyle', his 'Bohemian lifestyle', 'his enigmatic lifestyle'. Did he experience a deathbed conversion? Like the Earl of Rochester in the time of Charles II? This is worth following up.

Deathbed conversion doesn't explain the cross.  In his will, written in 1882, seven years before his death, he specifies "there may be placed a plain stone cross".  Size isn't specified, but the other crosses in JoanP's link are pretty big too.  He also specified the inscription.  So you can't tell if he had some religious feeling left or if he knew it would cause too much fuss not to have a cross and was keeping things as simple as possible.

The will is number 16 in the list of links on this site.

http://www.wilkiecollins.com/

[Scottieluvr]

Pamela, I appreciate that even when you're lurking, you come in and say hi.  That encourages the discussion leaders.

PatH,
I’m not able to add to this discussion but I have learned plenty just by sitting on the sidelines reading the lively exchange.  Y’all dig deeply into the author and book... its awesome. 

Can't leave this group without thanking our dedicated leaders...Many thanks, JoanK and PatH.  As we've noticed, it isn't easy to lead a month long discussion when it's a whodunnit - with everyone reading at a different rate.  But you did it!

Moll Flanders?  Now that would be an interesting discussion, wouldn't it?  Will someone put it in the suggestion box for the future?  As JoanK says, the next group discussion will focus on 10 short stories...starting June 1.  Hope everyone can join us.

JoanP,

Yes!  Kudos to our faithful leaders!!! *applause, applause* 

I’m looking forward to the short stories and their discussion outcome. 

[JoanK]

Pamela: don't sell yourself short; you contribute plenty! Looking forward to seeing you in the next discussion.

It's true, nobody discusses books the way Seniorlearn discusses books. It's spoiled me for other groups.

[Zulema]

Time for me to say "Hi" also and to tell you all I appreciated all you insights and comments and delving much more into Collins' life than I did, and the moderators questions which I am afraid I didn't often answer.  It's been very interesting.

[JoanK]

Glad you enjoyed it, and glad you came in to tell us so.