Author Topic: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online  (Read 31463 times)

bellamarie

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #400 on: April 06, 2015, 11:47:55 PM »
The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

March/April Book Club Online

Emma
by Jane Austen


"I am going to take a heroine whom no one but myself will much like”  Jane Austen of Emma.


Will you like her, the heroine who Austen claimed was most like herself, and who inspired a movie called "Clueless"? If not, there's lots more to like in this classic novel of love, misdirection, and social class.
Schedule

March 1-5  Part I:  Chapters 1-7
March 6 - 12 Part I:  Chapters 8-17
March 13  Part I:  Chapter 18, Part II Chapter 1-6
March 19  Part II: Chapter 7-13  
March 23  Part II: Chapters 14-18 Part III Chapters 1-4
March 27  Part III: Chapter 5-9
March 30  Part III: Chapter 10-end












Discussion Leader: JoanK





There is nothing that can replace the joy of reading a book for the first time, but for me, seeing the movie Emma, after finishing the book, was like icing on the cake!  They cast the actors to fit the characters perfectly.  Loved how in the movie it showed the looks Emma and Mr. Knightley gave to each other.  You could clearly see they were meant to be together.  But....what the movie did not capture for me, was the spunkiness of Emma, that I found in the book.  I was her cheerleader reading the book, because of her being so spunky.  
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #401 on: April 07, 2015, 12:01:07 PM »
Can someone help me?  I wanted to recommend a book for upcoming discussions, but it appears the last posts were from a while back other and Barb StAubrey's.  Is something wrong with the link?  Anyway, here is my suggestion.  I posted it in the suggestion link, but fear no one is checking in.  Do we have a list of books for our next discussion?

My granddaughter who is a Sophomore in college just finished reading the book:

Educating Esme'  Diary Of A Teacher's First Year by Esme' Raji Codell

http://www.amazon.com/Educating-Esm%C3%A9-Teachers-Expanded-Edition/dp/1565129350

My granddaughter is in early childhood education courses, and raved about this book.  It is in the form of epistolary, the author's diary, a style of writing which I happen to love. 

I have not read this book yet, but intend to very soon.  Please alert me privately, ASAP if this could be our July teacher read.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #402 on: April 07, 2015, 03:11:50 PM »
See the Suggestions for Future Book Discussions.

JoanK

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #403 on: April 07, 2015, 03:52:49 PM »
It's a rare book where you ask at the end if you like the heroine. it was revolution nary in it's time when,  I think I said, heroines were supposed to be without flaw (and, as someone said, also without a sense of humor!) Emma has both.

Austen says ""I am going to take a heroine whom no one but myself will much like.” What's the verdict? Do you like her? BELLAMARIE says "I was her cheerleader reading the book, because of her being so spunky." What do the rest of you think?

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #404 on: April 07, 2015, 04:54:14 PM »
Yep, spunky and full of energy - where as Harriet seemed more docile and dear Mrs. Weston was a kind down to earth lovely women. Jane to me was like a blank canvas waiting for a chance at her life.

Jonathan

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #405 on: April 07, 2015, 05:45:56 PM »
'BELLAMARIE says "I was her cheerleader reading the book, because of her being so spunky." What do the rest of you think?'

Thanks, BELLAMARIE. It was 'spunky' that helped me find the 'v' word 'verve' to go with 'vexation' for an alternate title in the Austen fashion P&P. S&S.

I have to disagree with you, Joan. I believe it's Jane Austen who has the sense of humor, not Emma. But Emma didn't need it, if we can believe Mr. Knightley, for whom she is'this sweetest and best of all creatures, faultless in spite of all her faults.'

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #406 on: April 07, 2015, 06:41:42 PM »
faultless in spite of all her faults  :D ;D ;) could only be said by a man in love...

bellamarie

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #407 on: April 07, 2015, 06:59:34 PM »
Yes, Barb, only a person in love can love you with all your faults, and in spite of them.  

Jonathan, I loved that statement from Mr. Knightley, thank you for it.  Mr. Knightley just wanted to be certain Emma did not go too far with her carefree, imaginative mind, so as to lose the love and respect of others.

I agree with you Jonathan, the humor came from Austen, being provided for Emma and others to give the reader the enjoyment of the comical situations.  You don't expect it from Austen, but she never disappoints.

I just can't imagine why Jane did not think her readers would like Emma.  Did she not know we could see and accept, her human nature?  Is it because of the times, when women were not liked if they were not the status quo of manners, and discipline?  Interesting thought.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Halcyon

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #408 on: April 08, 2015, 10:41:02 AM »
JoanK, thank you for leading this discussion.  It was a great introduction to Jane Austen.  Anyone have any suggestions as to what order I should read the other Austen books?  Bellamarie, congratulations on your retirement and thank you for all your research and commentary.  PatH, your comments always seemed so practical and your knowledge of the times was always very helpful.  Barb, you bring the most interesting tidbits to the group.  And what would we have done without Jonathan's sense of humor.  Hope to "discuss with you" again!  Thank you all, it was fun.

PatH

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #409 on: April 08, 2015, 11:11:51 AM »
Lucky you, Halcyon, to have unread Austen books ahead of you.  I'd start out with Pride and Prejudice, which is most people's favorite (mine too) and then PersuasionPersuasion is her last book, written in her final days, and if she had lived, she would probably have expanded and revised it a bit, but it's a close runner-up to P & P.  After that, it doesn't much matter.  Mansfield Park is most people's least favorite, and Northanger Abbey is rather slight, being a spoof of the Gothic novels that people of that time, including Austen, loved.

There is a wonderful 6 hour long BBC movie of P & P, with Colin Firth and Jennifer Ehle.  They had enough time not to have to cut the story, and they kept most of the dialog from the book intact.  Some speeches which look stilted on the page come out natural when acted.  There's also a good movie of Persuasion, with Ciaran Hinds and Amanda Root.  They did have to simplify for a 2 hour film, but they made good choices, and it's superbly cast.

Jonathan

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #410 on: April 08, 2015, 11:17:16 AM »
'I just can't imagine why Jane did not think her readers would like Emma.'

Perhaps, Bellamarie, the readers are wondering why Jane was so fond of Emma. While everyone else in the book ends up 'poor', Emma ends up in seventh heaven:

'She wanted to be alone. Her mind was in a state of flutter and wonder, which made it impossible for her to be collected. She was in dancing, singing, exclaiming spirits; and still she had moved about, and talked to herself, and laughed and reflected, she could be fit for nothing rational.'

It's even 'poor Knightley'. Of course that comes from Mrs Elton, who won't be invited to have dinner with him any longer, but look what happens to him in the end. He'll be living at Hartfield, providing company for poor Mr Woodhouse, and keeping the poultry house secured against chicken thieves. (I can't stop laughing.)

Emma will always be a daughter first. For that I love her.

I just read your post, Halcyon. Your were right when you suggested this story has all the drama of a midsummer night's dream.

bellamarie

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #411 on: April 08, 2015, 02:48:29 PM »
Halcyon, I agree with PatH., I would advise Pride & Prejudice next, and then Persuasion. 

Thank you JoanK., for your insights into the times of this era. 

I really enjoyed discussing Emma, with all of you.  Looking forward to our next discussion. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

JoanK

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #412 on: April 08, 2015, 04:08:54 PM »
I have enjoyed this discussion so much. HALCYON: I'm so glad you have joined us: you add so much to discussions. I agree with Pat and Bellamarie, but then don't forget to read Sense and Sensibility, and then see the movie with Emma Thompson.

BARB, of course you always have insights none of the rest of us think of. As does BELLAMARIE with your thoughtfulness. Let us know how your retirement goes. And JONATHAN: I can always count on you for humor and a different twist. Of course, PAT always has my back -- the rest of you have no clue how much she does.

I goofed: I thought this discussion would take two months, so we have no new discussion scheduled for April. (just as well, I HAVE to get started on the income tax!!) But the pre-discussion for May will start soon, under PatH. I'll see you all there.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #413 on: April 08, 2015, 06:46:04 PM »
This was great JoanK - thanks - the breadcrumbs Jane Austen leaves for her readers really had us going - everyone shared so much and I loved the enthusiasm for the story and for each other's thoughts -

What a relief to come into our Senior Learn monthly book discussion and know we can focus on what we are doing - reading and getting as much as we possibly can from the writer - rather than reading and watching, reliving the pain that appears to be the world at this time -

Amazing to realize the world was not a calm and peaceful place when Jane was writing her novels so it can be done - for me that is the thing I am choosing to come away with from our discussion - this was our reality and with the same approach to life I can make it an example of how to focus on the simple and my community of friends for my daily life at home.

Thanks to all of you for making this discussion an icon to what life can be - I have always loved reading novels and now I know why - they help me create in my head additional friends and life experiences and reading with y'all only rounded out and added to my head pictures of the world Jane Austen 'painted'.

Halcyon

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #414 on: April 08, 2015, 09:19:06 PM »
Thanks for reading order suggestions. What books are to be discussed next?

PatH

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #415 on: April 08, 2015, 09:50:33 PM »
That's to be put out in a day or so, but if I can get a quorum, I'll lead the first book of Sigrid Undset's trilogy Kristin Lavransdatter.

Halcyon

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #416 on: April 08, 2015, 10:00:28 PM »
Please explain the quorum. Who votes?

PatH

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #417 on: April 08, 2015, 10:12:48 PM »
Please explain the quorum. Who votes?
You do.  I'll put out the suggestion in the SeniorLearn discussions, probably with a link to a pre-discussion page, and people will sign up to read.  When there are enough that it looks like we could have a viable discussion, it's a go.  It's rare not to get enough, but it can happen. 

bellamarie

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #418 on: April 09, 2015, 11:50:50 AM »
PatH.,  I am not familiar with Sigrid Undset,  I went to my ibook store and library, it shows:

Kristin Lavransdatter

Kristin Lavransdatter, I  The Wreath
Kristin Lavransdatter, II The Wife
Kristin Lavransdatter, III The Cross
Kristin Lavransdatter - Husfrue

Just not sure which book you are actually talking about.  I wanted to place it on hold or purchase it for the next discussion.

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #419 on: April 09, 2015, 12:22:36 PM »
The three books of the trilogy, titled differently in the different translations, are:

The Wreath (The Bridal Wreath)
The Wife (The Mistress of Husaby)
The Cross

We're going to read the first one, The Wreath.  There are two translations, the original one by Charles Archer, and a recent one by Tiina Nunnally.  They are very different in style, the Archer having an archaic tone, and the Nunnally a simple, straightforward one.  Try to get a look at both, to see which you like.  I prefer the Nunnally, but opinion isn't unanimous.

Halcyon

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #420 on: April 09, 2015, 12:36:42 PM »
One more bit about Emma.
Jonathan It's even 'poor Knightley'. Of course that comes from Mrs Elton, who won't be invited to have dinner with him any longer, but look what happens to him in the end. He'll be living at Hartfield, providing company for poor Mr Woodhouse, and keeping the poultry house secured against chicken thieves. (I can't stop laughing.)

At the beginning of the Emma movie that JoanK recommended there is a night scene of a poultry house, chickens screeching (or whatever chickens do) and feathers flying.  I didn't get the reference until I read your post.  Haha.

I too am not familiar with Kristin Lavransdatter but can't wait to get started.


BarbStAubrey

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #421 on: April 09, 2015, 02:14:33 PM »
Finally - after how many years that Kristin Lavransdatter was mentioned as a possible read and always another book sounded more current or more exciting - I think we have seen the book mentioned for the last at least 10 years and probably longer - I am so looking forward to our finally getting to Norway...! Found a used copy that includes all three books on Amazon for only $2.70 plus shipping.

PatH

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #422 on: April 09, 2015, 03:03:51 PM »
Well, it may not be current, but i think it's exciting.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #423 on: April 09, 2015, 03:10:54 PM »
Yep -  :D  :-*

bellamarie

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #424 on: April 09, 2015, 03:31:56 PM »
Thanks Barb, for the heads up of the book on Amazon.  PatH., Does it make a difference, or will it matter to the discussion group, should we use different ones?  

Halcyon,  if you noticed, in the movie, it begins and ends with the chickens flocking, the significance, this is what makes poor scared Mr. Woodhouse to accept Emma to marry Mr. Knightley, so he will come live at Hartfield, so Mr. Wood house will feel safe, and protected.  

I asked myself, did Emma make this up, so she could get her father's approval?  I know they had problems such as this happen, but....did our wise little scheming Emma use this as a ploy?  Guess we will never know for certain, but the look on Mr. Knightley's face in the movie made me suspect, indeed she used this knowing how her father over reacts to everything.  Hmmm.....

Jonathan,  I forgot to give you kudos, for noticing the story begins and ends the same way.  You mentioned earlier, it begins, and ends with Emma, Mr. Knightley, and Mr. Wodehouse, all sitting by the fire.  Ironically, in the movie, it begins and ends with the chickens flocking.  What ever shall we make of this????  Not a coincidence I would imagine.   ::)
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

JoanK

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #425 on: April 09, 2015, 03:42:42 PM »
BARBARA: " for me that is the thing I am choosing to come away with from our discussion - this was our reality and with the same approach to life I can make it an example of how to focus on the simple and my community of friends for my daily life at home."

Right on!

HALCYON: I didn't get the beginning of the movie, either: I even went back to see if it was, indeed, Emma. At the end, it sort of clicked, but I'll bet anyone who hadn't just read the book wouldn't get it.

I've never tried leading a discussion in small chunks like that, I just fell into it. But I think it was good for Emma: it gave us a chance to linger over the small details, which are the joy of Austen. It wouldn't work for most books.

We've been immersed in a different society this month. Now we're going to medieval Sweden and another new society, also from a woman's point of view. I'm looking forward to finding parallels and differences.

Halcyon

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #426 on: April 09, 2015, 03:47:03 PM »
Bellamarie  Do you think Mr. Knightley had anything to do with the chickens?  I suspected Emma at the end of the movie but hadn't considered Mr. Knightley.

JoanK

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #427 on: April 09, 2015, 03:55:36 PM »
How are the mighty fallen! Mr. Knightley as the chicken thief!? I love it!

PatH

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #428 on: April 09, 2015, 03:56:25 PM »
You don't think Mr. Knightley is too upright to pull a trick like that? ;)

Halcyon

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #429 on: April 09, 2015, 04:03:16 PM »
PatH Love can do strange things to people.  He seemed very distracted and not at all himself at times in the movie.  It's fun to think about.  It's hard to let Emma and Mr. Knightley go.

bellamarie

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #430 on: April 09, 2015, 04:18:17 PM »
Hmmm....maybe, Emma & Mr. Knightley came up with the chicken plan together.  After all, they wanted his approval.  I just couldn't resist asking....

"Which came first?"  The chicken thief, or the plan?  Hee hee

I agree, Halycon, it is difficult to let go of Emma.  When you read Pride and Prejudice, Elizabeth Bennett will have the same effect on you.  But, as JoanK., has pointed out, PatH., has another girl named, "Kristen" waiting for us.  
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #431 on: April 09, 2015, 04:20:57 PM »
Quote
PatH., Does it make a difference, or will it matter to the discussion group, should we use different ones?

I don't think it will make a difference to the discussion group, though I'll know better when I've compared a bit more.  Nunnally says in her forward that the older translation leaves out one bit in The Wreath, probably because it was thought to be too sexually explicit.  I haven't come across anything very explicit so far.  She also says that bits totaling 18 pages are left out of The Wife, which deal with Kristin's spiritual development, and that could be important if we change our minds and decide to go on, but it would probably all come out in the discussion anyway.

Where it might make a big difference is to you personally, if you find one of the two more appealing.  I like the Nunnally for it's spare, low-key style, which reminds me of the sagas, but of course it was Archer I was reading decades ago when I gobbled up the book for the first time.

I remember when we read the Iliad, some of us couldn't stand the translations that others of us lloved.

I'm in the process of getting a pre-discussion sign-up page going, and we'll all hash it out there.

PatH

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #432 on: April 09, 2015, 08:21:10 PM »
Here's what I'm posting to steer people to the Kristin Lavransdatter discussion:

For the next book discussion, if we get enough people, I propose to discuss the first book of Sigrid Undset’s great trilogy, Kristin Lavransdatter.  If you’re interested, come and tell us HERE  

If you’re not sure, come on over and watch, and we’ll talk you into it.  It’s a really good read.

Jonathan

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #433 on: April 10, 2015, 03:17:03 PM »
Guess who cried at the wedding. Did Mr. Knightley see it? Of course he did.  What a jealous lover he was all along. He took notice of everything. Suspected everybody. Good luck, Mr. Knightley. And now to ge EMMA out of my own mind. I'm sure I'll be rereading it after a while.

JoanK

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #434 on: April 10, 2015, 04:28:18 PM »
JONATHAN: There is no cure for reading Jane Austen. The only relief is to read more (I've read all her books at least four times), read the knockoffs, or become a "Janeite". The Jane Austen Society of America has 4,500 members. they celebrate Austen's birthday in costume. they write "new" Austen stories. they hold symposiums, they do blogs.

Here is a fun article about Austen fandom in America:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21036818

JoanK

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Re: Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online
« Reply #435 on: April 11, 2015, 03:21:10 PM »
I reluctantly say goodbye to  this discussion. But I'll see you in the next one in Medieval Norway.