Author Topic: Classics Forum  (Read 222952 times)

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #440 on: May 07, 2012, 08:10:06 AM »
 


The Classics Forum


Paestum

Paestum, a complex of Greek Temples in  Southern Italy.


Welcome to our Classics Forum, which is our public discussion for those interested in the Classics. Since our Latin Classes are not visible to the public but we have a great many people interested in talking about the Classics, we've put this discussion up for your interest.

Please share here news, clips, magazine or newspaper articles, movies or television shows and especially books  you find that would be of interest to those of us who love the classics world.

Everyone is welcome!


It's never too late to learn Latin!



Interested in learning more about our Latin Courses? Click here: Learn More About Our Latin Courses




Just out!


We are very excited to announce the 5th edition of our Ezine Ecce, a publication of our SeniorLearn Classics Project and it's incredible this time. Our UK Editor, Maryemm, has outdone herself, and Marcie's work on the layout put the icing on the cake.

We have articles by Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, a very interesting short piece on Sian Phillips, who played Livia in the I, Claudius production and who turns out to be, like Boris Johnson, a total fan of Latin.

We have articles by  prominent archaeologists,  Cambridge Don Mary Beard, articles of new finds and old places, and best of all, we have articles by our own current Latin students which are absolutely fascinating  on a variety of wide ranging subjects. What a talented and accomplished student body we have here! I particularly like the fact that each of our 6 Latin classes is represented in this issue.

Take some time to immerse yourselves in this exciting issue! We hope you enjoy it!

http://seniorlearn.org/classics/ecce/ecce5/titlepg.html 




 Oh, there have always been bullies, as I'm sure you know.  They're just getting more
blatant now. There seems to be a quirk in human nature that we also watch those
people who make us angry; we want to know what idiocy they up to now. And since their
primary goal is, imo, publicity, it works out well for them. I think the only way
to get rid of them is to let their backers/funders/producers know they're losing our
business because of it.

  I've never watched Top Gear, and thanks to you ladies I can now be careful never
to do so.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

ginny

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 52428
  • A day without Latin is like a day without sunshine
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #441 on: May 21, 2012, 10:24:07 AM »
Here's something interesting. One of our Latin students, currently in Paris, writes that Le Figaro is running an  article on Pompeii, the subject being  are the Unesco funds  for preservation really being used FOR preservation? I hope to see if I can find it Wednesday at a B&N but I did find this one, 2 years old but really interesting, called The Second Death of Pompeii. It's in French but Google has translated it:



The second death of Pompeii]=http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.lefigaro.fr/culture/2010/12/11/03004-20101211ARTFIG00096-la-seconde-mort-de-pompei.php&ei=CU66T-ClOOPM6QHG5O3yCg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CFIQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DLe%2BFigaro%2BThe%2BSecond%2BDeath%2Bof%2BPompeii%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DvEp%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D853%26bih%3D351%26prmd%3Dimvnsb] The second death of Pompeii



One really interesting thing here is a youtube video about part way down which shows the truly deplorable state of things, and it was an eyeopener, but of course is in French. I don't think you need to be able to translate tho when faced with the photos.

PS: Sorry about that mess of a link but it works. There are actually two links embedded there, one for the original article in French one for the English translation, but it works so I'm going to leave it. :)


Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #442 on: May 21, 2012, 05:40:42 PM »
That's a shame, Ginny. I had heard about a wall collapse and some talk about the deteriorating conditions. The pictures bring it home as to just how bad it is.

BTW, have you been down to Ostia to see the ruins there? I watched episode 16 of the Yale lecture series on Roman Architecture the other night. It appears that all of the mosaics are in black and white (with maybe one exception). Ms. Kleiner did not say why. I thought it odd since it was a great import/export city. I would have thought there would have been more color.

ginny

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 52428
  • A day without Latin is like a day without sunshine
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #443 on: May 21, 2012, 08:25:50 PM »
Yes I've been to Ostia several times and each time they've had something new to see, but I can't make it this year due to my extremely short time in Rome and Pompeii.


That's a really good question!  There is a Plaza of the Corporations or Guilds,  which Rick Steves does a fine job with in his DVD, and those, it's always been thought, were shops or entrance ways to shops which were advertising of what that particular service offered. See below.

Apparently  the Romans  of the 1st and 2nd centuries AD seem to have  preferred the black and white colors and patterns,  and the mosaics of the time  tended to be those colors.. The geometric designs are felt if I remember Fishbourne correctly, to be earlier than the more ornate ones.  There are several books on this now, here's a quote from one:


 
Quote
The Romans seemed to like simple black motifs on a white background. Some of the best of these can be seen at Ostia, the port of ancient Rome. In the various baths the favoured design is of Neptune and sea monsters. In the Square of the Corporations, by the theatre, there are individual designs in the ‘offices of the corporations’ which portray a wide range of merchant vessels, images of the port’s lighthouse and items traded. They also give us some of the sources of trade with Ostia. There are also many floors covered in simple black and white patterns or with the addition of purple, as in the Baths of Caracalla.

That comes from: http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/classical/roman-mosaics.pdf which is an excellent article.

Then there's this statement from the Sussex UK  Historical Society (dealing of course with Fishbourne but touching on the Roman Empire of the same period):
Quote
During the 1st century BC in Italy black-and-white geometric mosaics came to dominate the mosaicists’ industry, perhaps as a reaction to the fact that figured panels now appeared more often on walls of rooms. Polychrome mosaics now became a rarity and black-and-white geometric mosaics were still predominant in Ostia during the 2nd century AD. It is, of course, in this context that the geometric mosaics of Fishbourne were situated, being works of the last quarter of the 1st century AD. With the emergence of black-and-white geometric mosaics borders seem to have become simpler, often consisting simply of two or three solid black lines (as in some of the Fishbourne examples).



 Here's  one of many interesting websites on the mosaics of Ostia with photos of them:
 http://www.ostia-antica.org/piazzale/corp.htm



Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #444 on: May 22, 2012, 09:36:04 AM »
Thanks for the links, Ginny. I've saved the pdf article for later reading. The link to the pix of the mosaics and inscriptions is terrific. I do love the floor plans. Now I am curious about the Claudian level and why the stalls may or may not be linked to commercial activity. Also, I want to go back over which wall panel styles were prevalent at the time. Maybe they didn't want the floor mosaics clashing with the wall art? Sounds mostly like a change in decorative fashion. For a commercial emporium, I suppose b/w is best for conveying information. They were not after an artistic statement there, so why spend the extra money for color? Also, the building owners may have had a stricture on stall rental/ownership that the mosaics be all the same color/style.

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #445 on: May 28, 2012, 06:21:28 PM »
I've just added a toolbar to my Firefox browser that is supposed to help learning Latin. It is called Alpheios Project. It looks like they also do Greek and Arabic. It comes with inflection tables and Charles Bennetts New Latin Grammer, 1918 edition. It also has a place for me to make a word list and something for "diagrams". I don't know what the latter is for yet. I can save my data too. Since I have this on my downstairs computer, I don't have to lug my books upstairs and I have extra room to spread out (unless the cat gets too helpful  ;D).

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #446 on: May 29, 2012, 08:56:05 AM »
 When my younger cat starts parading across my keyboard, FRYBABE, she is simply announcing
"I'm going to keep doing this until you get up and let me out!"  ;D
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Maryemm

  • :
  • Posts: 629
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #447 on: May 31, 2012, 07:40:15 AM »
American author Madeline Miller has won the 2012 Orange Prize for Fiction with her debut novel The Song of Achilles (Bloomsbury)




Quote
The Song of Achilles Greece in the age of Heroes. Patroclus, an awkward young prince, has been exiled to Phthia to live in the shadow of King Peleus and his strong, beautiful son, Achilles. By all rights their paths should never cross, but Achilles takes the shamed prince as his friend, and as they grow into young men skilled in the arts of war and medicine, their bond blossoms into something far deeper — despite the displeasure of Achilles’s mother Thetis, a cruel sea goddess. But then word comes that Helen of Sparta has been kidnapped. Torn between love and fear for his friend, Patroclus journeys with Achilles to Troy, little knowing that the years that follow will test everything they hold dear.

Available from Amazon

Maryemm

  • :
  • Posts: 629
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #448 on: June 08, 2012, 07:40:38 AM »
The Twelve Caesars : Matthew Dennison

Available from Amazon


Matthew Dennison has updated The Twelve Caesars written by Suetonius in AD 117. Although this has been "re-written" many times, Dennison's account is said to be colourfully embroidered for a modern audience.

Maryemm

  • :
  • Posts: 629
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #449 on: June 08, 2012, 07:46:40 AM »

 JULIUS CAESAR
  ( Royal Shakespeare Theatre, Stratford-upon-Avon, UK)

 This new production, directed by Gregory Doran is set in sub-Saharan Africa.

 Caesar carries a fly whisk, just as Jomo Kenyatta did

 Lucius (Brutus's young servant) is a boy soldier, as seen in Rwanda.

 The plotters wear the sort of robes sometimes worn by South Africa's President Jacob Zuma.

 The streets of Rome are patrolled by sjambok-wielding policemen who keep the populus just about under control.


Interesting!!

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #450 on: June 08, 2012, 08:38:47 AM »
 Sub-Saharan Africa and a fly whisk...in Rome!  It seems there are endless possible twists or
settings for a classical story.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Maryemm

  • :
  • Posts: 629
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #451 on: June 08, 2012, 11:45:03 AM »


 What will they think of next?

Annie

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2820
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #452 on: June 14, 2012, 06:38:30 PM »
My sister, Mary, and I are kicking around going to NYC in September.  We are looking at dates of Sept 18 thru 25th.  If anyone wants to join us for just a good visit, nothing planned ahead, we will try to make Leo reservations by Friday when those dates should be firmed up. ANYONE WANT TO JOIN US?
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

Annie

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2820
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #453 on: June 16, 2012, 10:49:37 AM »
Well, evidently, no one wants to go to NYC with us.   :'   Boo Hoo! (Maybe its because we haven't planned anything for a group.) 

We have talked of a few things--like seeing the Tenement Museum, seeing that park that Pedl'n told us about but we never made it up there.  Visiting the new Tower, always another peek at the Met Museum of Art or the Cloisters (when are those free guided MET tours, Ginny?)
 
Taking a tour of Brooklyn or NYC or a chocolate tour, something on a boat again? well,maybe.  Attending a musical if tickets are available.

See the Morgan Library!

Would like to go to another 8th Ave Festival and see if I can replace my ceramic leaf.  I broke the first one about a month ago.

And of course, perusing the restaurants that we have recently been told not to miss.  Might go back to ''The Boat House" restaurant in Central Park. We are looking into what else Central Park has to offer that we haven't seen. They advertise walking tours of park.

Most important for Mary is the shopping but Alf won't be there to keep her company and I am not long for this world after the 30 minutes of shopping.  But there's always something to do in NYC!
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #454 on: June 22, 2012, 09:34:31 AM »
Google has launched a project specifically for saving endangered languages. Check it out.

http://www.endangeredlanguages.com/

Maryemm

  • :
  • Posts: 629
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #455 on: June 22, 2012, 03:39:34 PM »
AdoAnnie :
Quote
Well, evidently, no one wants to go to NYC with us.


 I'm in the UK!

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #456 on: June 23, 2012, 08:45:51 AM »
 You should contact them, FRYBABE; be sure they know about GINNY and her international
prize-winning students!!
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #457 on: June 23, 2012, 09:16:06 AM »
I don't think Classical Latin is listed as an endangered language, Babi. With the school districts dropping foreign language and Latin in some places because of the budget cuts, it sure feels like it though.

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #458 on: June 24, 2012, 08:03:34 AM »
 I can certainly understand why ethnic groups would like to preserve their language, and scholars
and researchers would find it a great boon.  At the same time,  we keep trying to develop a
world-wide 'language' that everyone would speak and people would be able to understand one
another wherever they go.  Once upon a time every educated person could speak the language
of the Roman Empire. Then it was French.  Now English is spoken all over the world, though of
course not by all people.
  It's a bit embarassing, isn't it, that people all over the world have learned to speak English, and
usually other languages as well, while here in the USA we are cutting foreign languages out of
many of our schools.  We have been on a 'dumbing down' cycle for too long now.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #459 on: June 26, 2012, 11:16:32 AM »
Roman road found over top an older Greek road in Thessaloniki.

http://news.yahoo.com/subway-unearths-ancient-road-greece-215137746.html

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #460 on: June 28, 2012, 08:34:58 AM »
Another interesting site:  http://orbis.stanford.edu/  This site attempts to calculate the time and expense of traveling from one place to another around 200CE. If you click on the word maps at the bottom left corner of the maps, you are taken to another map and a calculator program which you can enter start, destination, method and time of travel, etc. to come up with an estimate.

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #461 on: June 28, 2012, 08:48:48 AM »
  FRYBABE, I know you have a curious mind, but you do come up with some odd interests.  ;)
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #462 on: June 28, 2012, 09:59:19 AM »
 ;D That's why George says I likes me; I'm not a one subject person.

Roman history is something of an interest of mine.

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #463 on: June 29, 2012, 08:25:32 AM »
 That's why I like you, too, FRYBABE.   :D
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Maryemm

  • :
  • Posts: 629
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #464 on: July 10, 2012, 11:58:25 AM »

Maryemm

  • :
  • Posts: 629
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #465 on: July 10, 2012, 12:00:45 PM »


Large Roman cemetery discovered in Norfolk


See:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-18693970

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #466 on: July 10, 2012, 02:45:57 PM »
What a lovely sarcophagus. It does look "new" doesn't it?

While looking around to see if I could find more information this one, MaryEmm, I ran across an article about another which was found in 1931. Lots of close ups of the sculpture. http://www.kuriositas.com/2011/01/portonaccio-sarcophagus-amazing-relic.html

I believe this is the first time I've seen a gravy with a decapitated head placed between the legs at the feet. The article says this is not uncommon. I wonder why they placed it there?

Maryemm

  • :
  • Posts: 629
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #467 on: July 11, 2012, 06:17:18 AM »


 Frybabe:
  Lots of interesting facts here at:


http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba69/feat2.shtml

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #468 on: July 11, 2012, 08:16:03 AM »
Good Lord, I must have been hungry when I did that last post. "gravy"?  ::)

Thanks for the additional info Maryemm. I will take a closer look at it when I get back from the grocery store.  Again with food. Hah!


Maryemm

  • :
  • Posts: 629
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #469 on: July 12, 2012, 03:56:14 PM »



SEMPER PLUIT


We have had the wettest "Summer" since weather records began and I live in the so-called "sunny South"!

I used to feel sorry for the Romans who were here but according to the papers today the weather wasn't so bad then!!

See:  http://www.iol.co.za/scitech/science/environment/how-the-romans-wore-togas-in-winter-1.1339824

Annie

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2820
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #470 on: July 14, 2012, 07:59:39 PM »
Miracles of miracles!  I heard from Joan Roberts!  Her computer crashed about 4 months? ago and she has lost everything including all her Latin work.   
But, she got my message about NYC and will be coming in for just one day to visit with those of us who will be there.  Physical problems prohibit a stay at Leo House.
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #471 on: August 20, 2012, 02:30:04 PM »
I am reading Andrew Lang's Adventures in Books. He is talking about Herodotus' writings in, I believe, The Histories: The Peloponnesian Wars.
Quote
…the tale keeps its pathos; the calm, grave stamp of that tragic telling cannot be worn away by much handling, by long time, by the many changes of human speech. “Others too,” says Nicias, in that fatal speech, when
   “All was done that men may do, And all was done in vain,” –
   “having achieved what men may, have borne what men must.” This is the very burden of life, and the last word of tragedy. For now all is vain: courage, wisdom, piety, the bravery of Lamachus, the goodness of Nicias, the brilliance of Alcibiades, all are expended, all wasted, nothing of that brave venture abides, except torture, defeat, and death. No play not(sic) poem of individual fortunes is so moving as this ruin of a people, no modern story can stir us, with all its eloquence, like the brief gravity of this ancient history. Nor can we find, at the last, any wisdom more wise than that which bids us do what men may, and bear what men must. Such are the lessons of the Greek, of the people who tried all things…

Quite striking, I thought.

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #472 on: August 21, 2012, 08:20:41 AM »
A wonderful excerpt, FRYBABE.  Now I really must find that Herodotus book. 
  One thing I'm not clear on. Was the part of the quote beginning "having achieved what mean
may do...", written by Herodotus or Andrew Lang. If it's Lang's writing, I want to read more
of his work.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8170
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #473 on: August 21, 2012, 08:45:36 AM »
Those lines quoted (") are Herodotus, the rest is Lang. Although I first encountered Lang when we read The Odyssey, I've since discovered that his translations were only a small part of his works. I believe I downloaded his Books and Bookmen, too, but haven't read it yet. What an incredibly prolific writer he was.

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #474 on: August 21, 2012, 09:03:19 AM »
 Thanks, FRYBABE.  I went back and re-read the post carefully, noting the placement of all
the quotes.  Both men are unmistakably great writers.  I definitely want more.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

ginny

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 52428
  • A day without Latin is like a day without sunshine
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #475 on: August 31, 2012, 12:06:46 PM »
In Memoriam:


Helen Pulsifer
August 8, 2012



I've come in with some sad news concerning one of our Latin community. Helen Pulsifer passed away August 8.  

That's Helen on our Home Page with her Latin III gold medal.  She was an incredible scholar and person; really a model for what anybody would hope to be in the golden years, and so valiant and always upbeat.

I am so sorry to hear this news.

I was able to convey to her the get well wishes of her 303  class when I saw her right before I left for my trip July 13. We will send a memorial from our Latin program here to the family.

You can see from the Obituary that her Latin meant a great deal to her. I thought you would like to know.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/greenvilleonline/obituary.aspx?n=helen-pulsifer&pid=159537120&fhid=11935#fbLoggedOut


Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #476 on: September 01, 2012, 08:29:09 AM »
An outstanding lady.  I'm sorry to hear she is no longer with us.  It's good to see she had a full
life doing the things that meant most to her.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Corfield18

  • Posts: 13
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #477 on: September 06, 2012, 10:07:38 AM »
 :)Hats off to St. John's College, Annapolis, Md. one of the oldest and most classical colleges in the United States.

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #478 on: September 07, 2012, 08:12:57 AM »
 Welcome, CORFIELD!  It's always a pleasure to meet a new name on SeniorLearn. From Maryland, I
assume?  :)  You'll find some other Maryland readers and posters somewhere in here.  Look around in
the other SL locales.  Since you are apparently a classics fan, you might be interested in looking into
the upcoming discussion of "The Tempest".
  If you haven't already checked them out, you will find all the topics discussed here in the index.
You'll see the link in the blue bar at the top of the page,  right after 'HOME".  Make yourself comfortable.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Bow_Belle

  • .
  • Posts: 939
Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #479 on: September 13, 2012, 07:15:01 AM »
Re Rude ignorant comments about Mary Beard.

Recently on TV in the UK was a four part series Called "She wolves" by a Dr Helen Castor It dealt with England's early queens "Mathilda" and her daughter in law "Eleanor of Aquitaine" and their amibitions to become queens in their own right.

it showed their strength of character and determination and other fine qualites. Also how they were thwarted!

In the final moments of the series  Dr Castor said "that because they were intelligent and thinking women they were despised as not being how women should be and were branded " She Wolves"  she mused that could not the same still be said about many contemporary women?

Mary Beard is enthused with what she is doing. Who needs eye candy ? The programme Substance is what really matters not not superficiality!