Poll

What do you think happened to Edwin Drood?

Killed by Jasper
4 (36.4%)
Killed by Neville
0 (0%)
Killed by someone other than above
1 (9.1%)
Still alive
6 (54.5%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ September Book Club Online  (Read 63930 times)

marcie

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The Mystery of Edwin Drood - by Charles Dickens

Had Dickens lived to complete "The Mystery of Edwin Drood," his 15th novel would have been one of his major accomplishments, say many of his critics. The novel was scheduled to be published in twelve installments  from April 1870 to March 1871. Only six of the installments were completed before Dickens's death in 1870, which left the mystery half finished.

"The ideal mystery is one you would read if the end was missing," writes Richard Chandler, creator of Philip Marlowe. Reading and discussing an unfinished mystery is a unique experience, especially when shared with a group. Will we agree with the critics, or go mad trying to figure out what he intended for the young engaged couple introduced at the start of the book?  And what has become of young Edwin Drood? Help us track down clues as we read along ... and then we'll each propose our own ending during the last few days of the discussion.

Chapter discussion schedule
September 1-6: 1-6
September 7-13: 7-12
September 14-20: 13-18
September 21-27: 19-23

This unfinished mystery is available in several places on the Internet at no cost but you might want to purchase the book or borrow it from your library, in order to read one of the editions, such as the Penguin Classics, that has useful footnotes.

Questions for your consideration this week: Chapters 19-23

1.   Chapter 19--Shadow on the Sun-Dial--what is the significance of the title?

2.  What is Jasper willing to sacrifice for Rosa?  Were you surprised by his declaration of love?  Was Rosa?

3.  Chapter 20--A Flight.  Is it a good idea for Rosa to go to Mr. Grewgious?  Does he seem less "angular" and "dry" now that we've seen more of him?

4.  Chapter 21--A Recognition.  Mr Tartar has a history, it seems.  What do you think Dickens might have planned for him?  How old is he?

5.  Chapter 22--A Gritty State of Things Comes on.  Can you picture Tartar's home and the conversation between Rosa and Helena Landless?  Which parts of the description stand out?

6.  Why does Billickin object to signing the lease with her Christian name?

7.  Are the Billickin and Miss Twinkleton worthy opponents?

8.  Why does Miss Twinkleton expurgate all the love scenes when reading to Rosa?

9.  Chapter 23--The Dawn Again.  Did you notice the shift back to present tense early in the chapter?

10.  Why does the Princess Puffer follow Jasper from London to Cloisterham?


See the previous questions and related links.



Discussion Leaders: Deems, Marcie

Deems

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Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2009, 09:31:34 PM »


Our September book discussion will be Dickens' last novel which was incomplete at the time of his death.  I had never read it before, somewhat worried about a "mystery" that had no conclusion, but then when Matthew Pearl came out with his most recent novel, The Last Dickens, I said to myself, "Self, you'd best be catching up on your Dickens."

Please consider joining Joan P, Marcie, and me for what is bound to be a lively discussion. 

Dickens in the fall--and late Dickens at that.  It just doesn't get any better.

marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2009, 11:26:25 PM »
If you are thinking of joining us in September -- and we hope you do -- please post a message here to let us know.

This unfinished mystery is available in several places on the Internet at no cost but you might want to purchase the book or borrow it from your library, in order to read one of the editions that has useful footnotes.

I've read it and I couldn't put it down. I think that you'll be intrigued too!

PatH

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2009, 11:33:55 PM »
I'm absolutely with you.  I read it a lifetime ago, can't find my copy, so, if you would care to recommend the one with the best footnotes, that's what I'll get.

Deems

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2009, 11:40:54 PM »

Pat H--I've only looked at a couple, but the Penguin Classics edition has excellent notes as well as a number of appendices, including one on opium which is very useful. 

I think notes are needed for this book as there are a number of references that many readers would not catch, like me, for example.

marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2009, 11:48:11 PM »
I'm very glad you'll be joining us, Pat!

In case anyone is interested, here is a site that has links to some of the text and audio versions of the book that are available online: http://librivox.org/the-mystery-of-edwin-drood-by-charles-dickens/


Gumtree

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2009, 02:31:41 AM »
Yes, please! - I'll come too though I'm not much good at posting pertinent points all the time. I have a copy of Edwin Drood but have never read it so it will be a first time read for me too. Something to look forward to.
Reading is an art and the reader an artist. Holbrook Jackson

JoanP

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2009, 07:38:15 AM »
September seems so far away, especially on a hot July day.  I can hardly wait to get into this discussion - because I cannot get the story out of my head!  Dickens didn't finish it - has left the mystery for others - for US to complete!
And we must speculate about where he himself was going with the story...from what he had been able finish.  
In a way, Dickens lives as we rummage in his mind and research his last thoughts.

Maryal...the Penguin notes are...copious!  I know the story is available on line - but believe you need footnotes for this book - I gave up after the first chapter...needing notes.

Matthew Pearl has a new edition of Dickens'  Drood- I had hoped to compare his  notes to Penguin's - but find that it won't be available for publication until October 6 - too late for us.  But he has written an Introduction - which might shed some light on Dickens'  intentions.  (Perhaps we can pursuade him to let us read the introduction even before this edition is available?)

This is a great group gathering here already - should be a sensational discussion!  Count me in!

Deems

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2009, 11:42:46 AM »

Yay-- it's Gum, my Aussie friend who lives exactly twelve hours ahead of me.  She who ponders and writes fascinating notes while I am snoozing away; something to look forward to in the morning.

Welcome! 

Gumtree

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2009, 01:20:25 AM »
Deems: She who ponders??  I hope that is not to say that my notes are ponderous.  :)

JoanP: Yes, September does seem a long time away especially as we are deep into our 'bleak midwinter' - July is our coldest and wettest month.

I purchased my copy of Edwin Drood after we voted for the Dickens discussion - it simply jumped into my hands at the bookshop . It's published by Random House under the Viking imprint 2009 and contains an Introduction by Matthew Pearl and at the back it includes The Trial of John Jasper -a mock trial presided over by G.K. Chesterton  and assisted by Hillare Belloc,  G.B Shaw et al.  Pearl's intro is only about 10 pages and there are no other notes. I guess I'd better  save the Viking for a gift for someone and get hold of the Penguin avec notes.
Reading is an art and the reader an artist. Holbrook Jackson

marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2009, 01:56:33 PM »
Gumtree and JoanP, it's wonderful to see that you'll be joining us for the Mystery of Edwin Drood discussion. Gumtree, the edition you have sounds very interesting...with a mock trial!

Deems

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2009, 05:54:31 PM »

Gum--hahahaha!  YOU ponderous?  No, my friend, never.  You are always full of interesting comments that I can have with my coffee and cereal in the morning.  You also have a wonderful sense of humor, so I have to be careful with the cereal lest I laugh and hit the computer with a mouthful. 

I wonder if the book you found is the one by Matthew Pearl that Joan P says we won't be having available in this country until after our discussion?  Given the odd ways that the publishing world works, perhaps copies are now available not only in Australia but also England?  Anyway, if you have Pearl's introduction that will be a wonderful contribution to our discussion (as long as it doesn't give the plot away!).

JoanP

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2009, 06:34:56 PM »
I'm confused...but that isn't unusual. Gum, will you take a look at this - and see if either one looks familiar?  It appears that Matthew Pearl has two different Mystery of Edwin Drood due to come out - one in September and one in October!  I'll have to do more sleuthing to find out more.


marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2009, 08:06:40 PM »
Joan, in your link to Barnes and Noble above, the first book listed appears to have a publisher in the U.K.

Gumtree

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2009, 12:28:44 AM »
Back again after a lot of stormy weather  - the bad weather is pushing up from Antarctica - it's cold and we had heavy hailstorms yesterday which is unusual for us.

Deems What a picture you paint - Please be warned that I take no responsibility for any damages incurred by spluttering cereal and slurping coffee all over your monitor.  :o

JoanP I checked out the link to the Droods. The first one with the illustration of the pocket watch on the cover is the same as the one I have - has the same ISBN.

I rarely read Introductions before I read the novel because there are always spoilers of one kind or another. I find it best to read the Intros after the first quick read of the book and then settle in to a more searching read. But just for you, I took a look at Pearl's Intro and while some of it is related to Dickens' life and publishing history he does have short assessments of a few characters with a view to relating their lives and actions to Dickens' own life. Not really spoilers but as always they do give something away.

 I plan to read up on Dickens to get some background into my head before we start on Drood. I know it's a literary sacrilege to admit it, but try as I might, I have never been a fan of the great man. He's a storyteller for sure but somehow it is always the grotesque aspects of his writing that loom in my mind and stop me from seeing much else.
I'm hoping this discussion will change my perspective.
Reading is an art and the reader an artist. Holbrook Jackson

Deems

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2009, 12:00:30 PM »

Oh, Gum, of course you will not be held accountable for damage to my keyboard (it's a laptop), and I do try to keep it at a distance while eating.  This poor old computer MUST hold together because although it's old and slow, it has the only way for me to connect to work through the old system.  I don't know what I'll do when it finally gives up the ghost.

Don't spoil the book for yourself, but it does seem to have an intro. by Pearl which will be interesting to Joan P since, as she said, the book won't be published in this country until later this year.  I think you Aussies are privileged folk.

I understand your standoffishness to Dickens because my daughter is the same way.  Then she saw the PBS program on Little Dorrit and the other two they did and said, "Hey this Dickens is pretty good."  If she can be won over, anyone can. 

The Dickens novel that I've always thought it would be fun to do here is Bleak House, which despite the gloomy title, is I think, his best.  He's very experimental in that novel, using a woman--Esther Summerson--to narrate nearly a quarter of the book.  He also does some interesting things with present tense.  Stylistically, he was ahead of his time.   Bleak House was also a Masterpiece Theater series here, and it was very good, but it omitted so much of the novel.

It's the height of summer here, heat and humidity (though not as bad as most summers), shorts, and lots of outdoor activity.  In June it rained and rained, to the point where my basement had flooding nearly every time--and now we badly need rain.  The trees are all fine, but the grass and little plants are thirsty. 

ALF43

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2009, 03:15:50 PM »
 Not that this is anything new for the month but I am expereincing a problem with ordering a copy of the Penguin classic on Amazon.  The site times out before it can be placed into my cart.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

Deems

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2009, 04:22:55 PM »

Hola!  Andy!  Are you still vacationing with children and grands?  Perhaps you will have better luck in a bookstore, like Barnes and Noble.  You have LOTS of time until Sept., and we will be taking the whole month to read the half novel.  Panic not.

marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2009, 04:25:38 PM »
Andy, We're looking forward to your joining us. Hopefully, your problem on Amazon is temporary and you'll be able to order later or, as Deems says, find the book in a local bookstore.

mrssherlock

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2009, 09:35:34 PM »
As I was  Googling "Drood"  I found this review of Dan Simmons' Droodhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/09/AR2009020902977.html
Louis Bayard's last paragraph is enough for me: 
Quote
A more apropos title, then, might have been "A Tale of Two Egos," which, all in all, is a worthy subject, but not worth the epic length afforded to it. Inside this artery-clogging almost-800-page book is a sleek and sinewy 300-page thriller waiting to be teased out. If only Simmons hadn't left the job to us.

Although I am one of those who do not revere Dickens, I will try again with the Mystery of Edwin Drood.  I did like A Tale of two Cities, Great Expectations and Christmas Carol.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2009, 10:05:13 PM »
Jacki, it's great that you'll be joining us for The Mystery of Edwin Drood. I found it engaging. I didn't want it to end... (lol, or maybe I DID want to have an ending!)

Deems

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2009, 12:15:30 PM »

Jackie, it is a pleasure to have you with us!  It's brave of you to give
Dickens another chance, and you have enjoyed some of his books.  In his day he was an enormously popular writer, sort of the soap opera king of his time.  People read the latest installment of his novels out loud in the evening to the whole family. 

ALF43

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2009, 01:26:09 PM »
Beats me but the staff at Amazon was wonderful.  they actually ordered it for me.  We worked it together and when it came time for me to one click it for purchase or to put it into the cart, it timed out.  They changed their browser system last month but told me it was MY computer.  I did all of the defrag, empty this and that, so we'll see.  I bought it for .09 cents + shipping.  God knows what that will be but B & N wanted over 25 bucks for it.  NOT!
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2009, 12:58:56 AM »
I'm glad you were able to get the book, Andy. You can't beat that price! Of course the shipping costs more than the book :-)

Donnie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2009, 01:20:25 PM »
Just weighing in to say I would like to be part of the discussion group.  I am not much of a Dicken's fan, but I did enjoy Great Expectations and read it more than once.  The Tale of Two Cities is my favorite.  I ordered the Drood book but haven't received it yet.  To get an idea of what the book is about I am reading The Puzzle of Dicken's Last Plot.  It is a short book and probably a spoiler but I don't care about that.  I have just read a couple of pages but what has been suggested is that it is important to get the characters fixed in your mind as well as their relationship to each other.

marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2009, 05:33:16 PM »
Donnie, it's always exciting for us to welcome a new participant! We're glad you'll be joining us. May I ask how you heard about SeniorLearn and our discussion of The Mystery of Edwin Drood?

The Puzzle of Dicken's Last Plot sounds interesting. Thanks for letting us know about it (although, as you say, it might be a spoiler for those who have not yet read Dicken's mystery). When I was a child, I spent one summer reading all of Andrew Lang's Fairy Stories that were in our public library (Blue Fairy Book, Red Fairy Book, etc).



PatH

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2009, 07:49:40 PM »
Hi, Donnie, and welcome.  Thanks for the warning about keeping characters and their relationships straight.  Since that's my weakness, I'll start keeping a list from the start.  I think you'll like the discussions here.  By taking so much time, we really get a lot out of books, and the people are really nifty.

EvelynMC

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2009, 08:02:20 PM »
I'll be joining you.  I'll have to get a copy of the book.  Our library had it listed and I was on the wait list.  And then the title disappeared from their card catalog and my hold also vanished.  Just off into cyber space...sooo, I'll be ordering it from Amazon, or just pick it up at a book store.  I'll get the Penguin classic.  Maybe I'll also get it for $.09 plus shipping.  ;)

Evelyn

marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2009, 09:54:55 PM »
Hooray, Evelyn! We're getting a great group here. That's too bad that someone lost or damaged the book in your library. I hope you find an inexpensive copy.

Deems

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2009, 12:30:41 AM »

Welcome Donnie and Evelyn!  How good it is to see our group expanding.  Looks like it's possible to get the Penguin Drood for less than the shipping. 
Woot! 

Donnie--Yes indeed.  There are many characters in the novel and it is important to keep them straight as well as their relationships to each other.  It's good to have you with us.

Evelyn--It's also wonderful to see you.  I don't think you will have any trouble finding a book, and it is available online as well.  But I don't think there are notes to the online version, and this novel needs notes.  Perhaps I should say that I needed some notes and have found them interesting to read.

serenesheila

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2009, 03:29:42 PM »
Please count me in.  I will be reading the book on my Kindle.  So, I do not know who the publisher was, or if there are notes.  I really like reading on my Kindle.  I can enlarge the print, and it holds my place for me.

Sheila

marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2009, 04:30:02 PM »
Welcome, Sheila. That's great that you'll be joining us. It really is a very interesting book. A number of people who participate on this site enjoy their Kindles.

Deems

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2009, 06:02:27 PM »


Welcome, Sheila! I have a Kindle too and I enjoy reading on it.  I'll be using the Penguin edition with notes so feel free to ask if you have any questions about references.  No doubt references to notes that are especially interesting will be made here.  It's good to have you aboard!

PatH

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2009, 12:22:11 AM »
Just trying out a split personality, hmm.

ALF43

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2009, 10:16:58 AM »
Well, I have received my book but it does not have the footnotes that I had expected.  Perhaps I ordered the wrong one but it is complete and unabridged so I will most likely have plenty of questions. 
I have read 33 pages so far and am keeping notes on who is who in the story.
Don't I have a lot of nerve I barely know who I am anymore. :-[
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

Deems

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2009, 10:40:00 AM »

Marcie's not only split, PatH, she's split in 3.  I wonder what happened to Marcie 2. 

Andy--good to hear your book has come.  Sorry about the footnotes, but good on you for keeping a list.  There are many characters in this novel, even some who are introduced near the "end," which wouldn't have been the end if Dickens had lived. 

marcie

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2009, 09:41:25 PM »
muhahahaha.... (evil laughter). I've deleted my experimental "test" message in this discussion for which I created another temporary username. What happened to that user? Could it be she had the same fate as Edwin Drood? What DID happen to Edwin Drood?

We'll investigate and postulate our own theories as we discuss the novel together starting September 1!

EvelynMC

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2009, 06:51:45 PM »
I received my book on Wednesday.  It is the Penguin edition and has pages and pages of introduction, appendices, notes, and also the story. This is going to be an education.  Looking forward to it.

Evelyn

catbrown

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2009, 09:26:18 PM »
Late to the party, but not too late ... just posting to say I'll be joining in and using my very old edition of "Drood" which has all the original chapters just as Dickens wrote them and then some additional chapters added by another author to "finish" the mystery. I don't remember at all what the so-called solution was, but it'll be fun to add whatever it is into the discussion.

ANNIE

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Re: Mystery of Edwin Drood ~ Dickens ~ To Start September 1
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2009, 09:58:03 PM »
Thought that I had signed up for this intriguing title but better late than never.  Looking forward to this discussion of half a book by Dickens.
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey