Non-Fiction

[mrssherlock]

 

TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK

What are you reading?  Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?

Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it. 

Let's talk books!

Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold

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As I was heading for the checkout line I saw a book dispkayed in my library for impulse shoppers.  The Lost Paintingby Jonathan Harr caufght my eye because it referred to Caravaggio, of whom I am enamored.  I thought the book was fiction, it was told in a narrative style, interminging the painter's life with the tale of some researchers studying the provenance of some of his reputed paintings.  Each "actor" is finely delineated and one feels as if one could immediately start a conversation with/about them.  Caravaggio is sort of a cult idol, to my surprise, and there are rabid feuds among the scholars; I always love to read about adacemics' feuds.  I heartily recommend this look at the hidden wsorld of art history research for its szubject, its suspense and its humanizing of the Ivory Tower's real life residents.  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/13/books/review/13handy.html

[mabel1015j]

Did Irving Stone, or some such author of that age, write a novel about Caravaggio? I vaguely remember reading a really good fiction account about him many, many yrs ago............jean

[JoanK]

He certainly had a life that would make good fiction.

[mrssherlock]

My little library (Salem's population = 125,000 or so) has 30 listings under the keyword "Caravaggio"  http://catalog.ccrls.org/search/?searchtype=X&SORT=D&searcharg=caravaggio&searchscope=1&submit.x=35&submit.y=20&submit=Submit

[ANNIE]

Mabel,
This might be a good read about the artist, Carravaggio, http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/98374.M_The_Man_Who_Became_Caravaggio
Jackie,
Funny, you should remember that book title, Jackie.  I brought home the audio of the book but didn't like the reader.  I have just reserved it again to give it a better chance.  I love art history books and must have read everything that Irving Stone wrote, long ago and far away. 

[Babi]

At the moment, and in some places, ANNIE, I suppose the is 'the way it
it'. We live with what we must and cope as best we can. But where possible women do fight against such treatment and live better and richer lives. Mahlia could give you loads of information about that.

 I have an autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini, read years ago, that
certainly raised my eyebrows. Don't you find that journals, diaries and
autobiographies give much better insights into the character and
personality of the famous?

[mrssherlock]

Babi:  Cellini's bio was on my liast of TBR but somehoiw it slipped through the cracks.  Thanks for the reminder.

[PatH]

I read Cellini's autobiography 50 years ago (Yikes!  Where has the time gone?) and thought it was a hoot.  I wouldn't trust it for accuracy, though.  He's full of the politicking, intrigue, infighting and angling for patronage, always telling his side of the story.  There are many stories of someone being against him until they saw his work and were overwhelmed by its quality.  (Of course, his work really was that good, but I doubt it worked that way.)

If nothing else, it's worth reading the story of casting his statue of Perseus.  The shape was supposed to be impossible for techniques of the time, he was sick with a raging fever, and his assistants had deserted him.  So this semi-delirious man is dealing with a furnace full of molten metal, a mold that won't fill properly, throwing in the silverware because the consistency isn't right, and eventually producing this:

http://www.italian-renaissance-art.com/images/Perseus-With-the-Head-Medusa-cellini.jpg

[mrssherlock]

Truely awesome.

[Babi]

 Marvelous, isn't it, PatH?  Do you remember all that from 50 years ago?
I can barely remember having read it and that it was 'a hoot', as you
call it.  Cellini was very full of himself, but that seemed to be much
the norm among these competitive,  patron-dependent artists.

[JoanK]

I read it when I was a kid -- my parents had it. I suspect I didn't understand some of it. But I remember him throwing in the teaspoons, now that Pat has reminded me.

It can be hard having a sis like Pat who remembers everything! She'll say "Do you remember when we were 10 and went to ---- movie, the scene where ------.

Sure I do!!?!#!

[joangrimes]

Well guess what Folks...I went looking for the Cellini  book on Kindle and it is now on Kindle.  I ordered it. Since Art is one of my main interests I am sure that I will like the book

[Babi]

To Joang...Enjoy!    To JoanK...

[EdithAnne]

I just finished reading Too Close to the Sun by Curtis Roosevelt, grandson of FDR.  He was intervijewed on the radio one night and thus I was  motivated to buy it.  It is a peek intothe lives of the rich, the Roosevelts living in the White House.  He reveals what life was like living there and portrays the president and his wife as being warm and friendly.  He also said, FDR's mother, Granny, always got a bad rap from the tabloids, but he saw her in a very different light.  

[joangrimes]

Oh that sounds really good
I will have to check and see if I can get it on Kindle .
 Thanks for telling us about
Too Close to the Sun EdithAnne.

Joan Grimes

[Babi]

I suppose it's natural that he would, EdithAnne.  A grandmother with
her grandson may be a very different person than the one most of the
world sees.

[Ella Gibbons]

Thanks, EdithAnne, for the suggestion.  Curtis Roosevelt.  Is it this grandson who headed a Social Security, or was it AARP, commission for many years.  I used to get letters - printed pamphlets -  from a Roosevelt who was doing it to honor his father who pioneered the Social Security program.

When was this book published, EdithAnne?  I think I may have read it; there are so many books about FDR and Eleanor and I have read many of them.  What a pair, they will never be equalled in the White House.

[Babi]

  Eleanor and FDR were an impressive pair, but I always thought them a
sad couple.  I cannot help but think they would have been happier had
they not married.

[Ella Gibbons]

A sad couple, BABI?  Never thought of them in that way; perhaps you are right.  But Eleanor (with Louie Howe) was the one to persuade FDR to get back into politics, after polio, and, had she not been on the scene, the country might have come out of the depression and WWII differentlly.  What do you think?

And, of course, FDR found many pleasures (ahem!) in his female staff and friends.  Eleanor was the sad one I think, and her last years alone were the worst.

[mabel1015j]

 Ella -  i tho't of ER's yrs after FDR died as her good yrs. She got jobs and a reputation in her own right and could spend time w/ her friends w/out denying time to FDR..............Allida Black (Project Director and Editor, The Eleanor Roosevelt Papers & GWU Research Professor of History and International Affairs) says in the introduction of her book Casting Her Own Shadow: ER and the Shaping of Postwar Liberalism, "ER....was the consummate liberal power broker.........ER grew into power.....her life before 1945 was marked by intensely private and public challenges. Some demands threatened ER's self-confidence, while others pushed her into unfamiliar arenas which demanded skills she never knew she possessed. The more she confronted the disappointments and set her own expectations, the more independent she became, the more she trusted her own abilitities and the more she wanted to achieve............When confronted w/ this huge change in her life, when she no longer had to defer to her husband's office and priorities, she could rise to the challenge. She had now not only the opporutnity "to start again," but the expertise necessary to build a legcy of her own.  

 Truman appointed her a delegate to the organizing of the United Nations, basically to get her out of WAshington and away from interfering in his domestic policies, because he knew he would have to have her support to hold the New Deal coalition together. Of course, she made her mark on the Declaration of Human Rights making sure the statement said "rights for men and women," and including statements giving religious and education freedom to everyone. She had quite a fight w/ the Soviet delegation over the religious issue.

I think she really enjoyed that position. She was a consummate politician and enjoyed the give and take, particularly w/ the Soviets, and understood the importance of her accomplishments of getting so many rights written into the Declaration, some of which are still being worked on today thruout the world.

In her conclusion, Black says "As she aged, she saw democracy in broader terms and used a variety of tactics to implement her vision. As a politician, she tirelessly campaigned for local, state, and nat'l leaders; raised money for political and social reform organizations; and mediated fractious internal disputes which threatened to divide coalitions she worked to build. As a journalist, she dedicated her work to explaining controversial issues, mobilizing grassroots support for political and economic reform, and holding politicians accountable for their actions. As an activist, she chaired investigative committees, embraced confrontation and raised money for legal challenges. And finally, as both a mother confessor and political sage to liberal leaders and party officials, she provided the perfect example of politics and honor................ER was a woman, not a saint. She was a power broker, not an elected official. Nevertheless she cast a long shadow across the nation.

http://www.amazon.com/Casting-Her-Own-Shadow-Liberalism/dp/0231104049

The review on this site addressed in a better way the issue of her life after FDR - at both sites scroll down to read the reviews.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Casting-Her-Own-Shadow-Eleanor-Roosevelt-and-the-Shapi_W0QQitemZ290373601348QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Texbook_Education?hash=item439b9d8844
Jean

[Ella Gibbons]

OH, YOU ARE SO RIGHT, JEAN.  Those were good years for her; I was thinking of when she was old and of the book we discussed in 2002 entitled KINDRED SOULS.  Here it is in our Archives:

http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/KindredSouls.html

It was such a sad book in so many ways that I have never forgotten it.  But you are right in that Eleanor blossomed after FDR's death, without the constraints of being his wife and all that the position of First Lady entailed.  She was so admirable.

[Babi]

 I think you are probably right, ELLA.  Eleanor was the sad one. Despite
her many accomplishments, her private life could not have brought her
much happiness. One reason, no doubt, that she treasured her friends so
highly. I agree, JEAN has it right.

[Ella Gibbons]

I remember in one of the books that I read Eleanor complained of her children always asking her for money and she was not a wealthy person.  FDR had put his own trust money in buying and restoring Warm Springs, GA.  Of course, both made money in their lifetimes but they were not wealthy people.  She was not close to her children at all and, in fact, the one she counted on the most, her daughter, Anna, betrayed her (so she thought) by bringing FDR and his mistress together.  It would have happened with or without Anna, but it hurt Eleanor, so I read.

Her marriage and her children did not bring her happiness; perhaps that is why she so diligently sought the limelight in her other pursuits.

[serenesheila]

Ella, I think you are right about ER.  She was unhappy at times.  However, I do believe that she enjoyed her travels during WWII.  She saw the world, and gave to our service personnel.  It seems to me that one of the joys of her life was doing for others.

I also think that as her mother died when she was young, she was not nurtured as much as she needed.  She apparently never was close to her mother, and her father was an alcoholic.  So, from what I have read, she didn't have good role models for healthy parenting.

Some people should never be parents.  Perhaps she was one of those.  She was ahead of her time.  She was an indepedent woman.  Even though she was married and a mother, she would have preferred being an executive woman, with another title, rather than "just" a mother and a wife.  At least those are the impressions I have of her, from all I have read.

Personally, I wish there were more biographies of first ladies.  I would love to read an accurate bio of Pat Nixon.  But, the only one I could find was written by her daughter.  I think discovering how she lived with Richard Nixon, would be an inteeresting read.  How Ike's carreer affected his wife, would also be interesting.  How did Herbert Hoover's life choices impact his wife? 

We know a lot about our President's, but I for one, want to know more about their wifes.  Isn't it time for we women to see more bios of women?

Back to bed now.  I have intestinal flu, and have been spending all of my time, either in bed, or the bathroom.

Sheila

[Ella Gibbons]

A biography of Pat Nixon or Mamie!  

We would all like to know more about those two; most of us of a certain age remember them as silent shadows when their husbands were in the White House.  What of their youth, their courtships, their marriage, their political views?  Pat Nixon, of the red coat in China, and Mamie, with those "awful" bangs (my opinion of course).  

Certainly they had friendships and I think a good author could write a biography that many women would love to read.

Speaking of good authors, I just saw David McCullough on BookTV and he's aged.  He was stumbling and rambling.   What did I expect -  it happens, but I do so hate to see it of my favorite people.

Sheila, I hope you get better soon.  That's no fun.

[Mippy]

If I may skip to more recent politics, I've just finished
Mark Halperin's  Game Change, about most of the people involved in the presidential election and what went on behind the scenes.
Highly recommended!
 
Here's the Amazon link, which gives many reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/Game-Change-Clintons-McCain-Lifetime/dp/0061733636/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266593927&sr=8-1

[mabel1015j]

Ella - one of the best books i've ever read is Carl Anthony's First Ladies: the Saga of President's Wives and Their Power, 1960 - 1990, vol 2 . He has a first vol up to 1960 which is on my TBR list- my library didn't have the first vol until this yr. Even tho i read  vol 2  10 or more yrs ago,  i remember getting a very different picture of Pat Nixon than i had had before reading. I also got a more favorable impression of Nancy Reagan than i had had. You might want to check out those two volumes to get a idea about Mamie and Pat.

My library has NO books just about Pat Nixon - interesting, there must not be any very good ones, or perhaps objective ones, since this is a hightly Republican town. I was surprised when i looked for one and there was none.

They do have 2 books the you might look for Mamie.  Ike and the story of the GEneral and his Lady by Lester and Irene David. I know nothing about it other than it was published in 1981 or 82 - both dates were listed. Another later one, 1996, was written by Susan Eisenhower Mrs Ike: Memories and Reflexations on Mamie Eisenhower. You might think that it would not be objective or even very biased,  but i have always been impressed w/ SE's moderate opinions when i've heard her speak. I may have to put that one on my tbr list also.............jean

[Ella Gibbons]

Well!  Has anyone heard about this book THE DEATH OF AMERICAN VIRTUE: Clinton vs. Starr by Gormley.  The author , a professor of law, was interviewed on BookTV last night by a lawyer who represented Clinton during his impeachment trial, and the author promises that his book will be readable by layman. 

A remarkable interview, which will be repeated tonight (Sunday).  I went to the computer to reserve the book and discovered that my library has bought 12 copies of it (very unusual for nonfiction) and I reserved it only to discover that there is a waiting list and I am 16th and that was at 11 p.m. that night

What a title, what interviews with all the major players.  Paula Jones, Monica, Whitewater, travelgate.  How I remember it all and what assertions the author makes.  Of course, they are his opinion, but remarkable opinions.

[Ella Gibbons]

Who was involved in our discussion of PARIS 1919?  I'll look in our archives but I heard part of a discussion of this new book YALTA, THE PRICE OF PEACE by Plokhy and it sounds very good.  I also reserved that at my library:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Yalta/S-M-Plokhy/e/9781101189924/?itm=1&USRI=yalta%2c+the+price+of+peace

Hereis a synopsis at that site:

A major new history of the eight days in February 1945 when FDR, Churchill, and Stalin decided the fate of the world

Imagine you could eavesdrop on a dinner party with three of the most fascinating historical figures of all time. In this landmark book, a gifted Harvard historian puts you in the room with Churchill, Stalin, and Roosevelt as they meet at a climactic turning point in the war to hash out the terms of the peace.

The ink wasn't dry when the recriminations began. The conservatives who hated Roosevelt's New Deal accused him of selling out. Was he too sick? Did he give too much in exchange for Stalin's promise to join the war against Japan? Could he have done better in Eastern Europe? Both Left and Right would blame Yalta for beginning the Cold War.

Plokhy's conclusions, based on unprecedented archival research, are surprising. He goes against conventional wisdom-cemented during the Cold War- and argues that an ailing Roosevelt did better than we think. Much has been made of FDR's handling of the Depression; here we see him as wartime chief. Yalta is authoritative, original, vividly- written narrative history, and is sure to appeal to fans of Margaret MacMillan's bestseller Paris 1919.

[Ella Gibbons]

We had a good group for that discussion:  http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Paris1919.html

[serenesheila]

Ella, thanks for the reminder about "The Death of American Virtue".  It will run again, on Book TV, at 8:00 p.m. tonight, and at midnight.  So, I have set it up to record.  It sounds interesting.

Recently, I watched an interview with the author of the book on the Yalta conference.  I found it extremely interesting.  I also recently saw some program, about all of the health problems FDR had at that time of his life.  Made me think that we may be kept in the dark about a number of Presidential health problems.  Kennedy was in extremely poor health, too.  I think that Nixon, had mental and emotional problems.   I am coming to the conclusion that Presidential health problems should be a public record.

Sheila

[joangrimes]

I have often heard it said that FDR would never be elected president today because he really could not stand.Polio had left him him completely crippled.  I remember when he ran against Windell Wilkie  that one of the ugly taunts that were aimed at Wilkie was, " Wilkie is crippled upstairs and crutches won't help".  I was a child at the time and that one appealed to me.  I have always enjoyed reading about the lives of presidents.

Joan Grimes

[Babi]

Much as we might like to know, SHEILA, revealing our leaders' illness
and vulneribility would most certainly be like blood to sharks. The
President would lose much of his credibility in negotiations with other
powers, since the possiblity would rise that he might not be around long
enough to make good his promises.

[ANNIE]

Good point, Babi.  I do like the idea of getting this book though.  We have always heard about FDR's illness at that conference and how he might have made some wrong decisions or gave away the farm.

I am starting "Churchill" by Paul Johnson and I like this quote of the author's from the inside flap:

"OF ALL THE TOWERING FIGURES OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, BOTH GOOD AND EVIL, WINSTON CHURCHILL WAS THE MOST VALUABLE TO HUMANITY,  AND ALSO THE THE MOST LIKABLE.......NO MAN DID MORE TO PRESERVE FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY AND THE VALUES WE HOLD DEAR IN THE WEST........HOW DID ONE MAN DO SO MUCH, FOR SO LONG, AND SO EFFECTIVELY?"

Not a long book, 166 pgs, but promises to be concise and  most interesting.

[Babi]

 I am interested in reading the book about Churchill and the 'troublesome
young men' around him that Ella will be featuring in a non-fiction discussion.  But your shorter biography sounds like an excellent appetizer,
ANNIE. I have always admired and liked what I knew about Churchill. His
sharp tongue got him into trouble more than once, but it also gave me
some good laughs.  The man was eloquent, in more ways than one!

[ANNIE]

Do you suppose, Babi, that Churchill was another Moses for our generation?  Tee hee.   I will comment on the book as soon as I get into it.

A non-fiction title suggestion from Bruce Feiler:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/books/03book.html?hpw

[Ella Gibbons]

SHEILA, what did you think of the interview on BookTV regarding the book THE DEATH OF AMERICAN VIRTUE?  It might be a popular book except for the fact that it is almost 800 pages long!

ANN: IN APRIL we will begin discussing the book - TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN:  The Rebels Who Brought Churchill to Power by Lynne Olson.  Remember what you read about Churchill and bring it to the discussion.  We will be putting a Proposal for the book in public very soon.  Please sign up!  Here is a quote from the Intro to the book:

At England's elite public schools they were drilled in the vital importance of "playing the game" and "never batting against your own side."  In the years preceding WWII, a small, tight-knit and insular old boy network dominated the British government and society, as it had for generations; the members lived in the same London neighborhoods, belonged to the same clubs, went to the same parties, spoke with the same accent, used the same slang, married one another's sisters and conformed.

So what happened when their authoritarian prime minister, one of their own, appeased the world's worst dictator, had no interest in fighting, no interest in preparing England for the shock that was to come from one of the world's worst dictators who was spreading his evil, his forces, across Europe.

The story of a few disloyal rebels, who in the end saved England,  is a fascinating read, a fascinating and untold story of the years before disaster struck England. 

[Babi]

I suppose that when we think of Moses we think of him first of all as
a great leader. I guess any prominent leader might find himself compared
to Moses. (Or have his PR staff do it.   )  Aren't prominent generals
compared to Alexander the Great?  I suppose there might be other good
examples, but it's too early in the morning.

 I'm not sure if the description of Rebecca Skloot's book excites me or
scares me, ANNIE. If you read it, let me know your opinion of it.

 Ella, I'm looking forward to it. The subject fascinates me; I do hope
the author does it justice. I've never read anything by Lynne Olson.

[Ella Gibbons]

BABI, Lynne Olson, former White House correspondent for THE BALTIMORE SUN is the author of FREEDOM'S DAUGHTERS and coauthor with her husband, Stanley Cloud, of A QUESTION OF HONOR and THE MURROW BOYS. 

I've never read any of those; I can't remember where I heard of this book (memory is a problem) but I think it was on a table where our librarian places good nonfiction books.  I brought it home and read half of it, then bought the book.  It is well written; I think journalists write well.  Well, of course, that's much too general a statement.

[ANNIE]

Ella,
I will try to get a copy from the library and peruse it to see if I want to read it.  I am still involved in America's Prophet so haven't had much time to read anything else.
And, while I was looking for the book below, I asked to reserve Troublesome Young Men.  I am 1st on the list.  What's going on here?  Is the book about one woman's cells being used all over the world for cancer research and other medical research more interesting or what??

Babi
I will let you know if I can check out the Rebecca Skloot's book from my library. What a curious story that must be.
Well, I placed a reserve on it, but I am #259 in line for the book, and #22 in line for the CD.  Now I need to buy a new CD player since mine crashed last month.