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jane, you and your compatriots are so good to keep track of us, and keep us writing on nice clean pages.

Thanks!

GINNY, that is precisely why I do not read Updike, or for that matter, Philip Roth. I don't mind being challenged or stirred up, but I don't want to spend time reading books that leave a nasty taste in my mouth.

I haven't read the book, "Beloved", but I saw the movie with Oprah Winfrey. It was an excellent movie, but there is no question that it frequently shocked me, or left me with eyes wide and mouth agape. Very strange!

Babi

I read John Updike's Rabbit Run as one of the books for a class in modern author's. Didn't want to read any more of his books. Another author we read was Joyce Carol Oates. Why does a modern book have to be depressing to be considered literature?

Remember the contest? Should I give another clue? Should I give the answer to the contest? I know Jane is thinking. Jane is wearing her thinking cap.

Hats ~ Do give another clue!

Mippy here goes!

Clue#4

The grandmother is very supportive of her grandson. He is guilty by association.

Clue#5

It is not homework. It is a blank. A blank maybe others should take to heart. This word is a part of the title.

Good Luck Mippy and All!!

Ah! I think that's the one by Ernest Gaines, but I can't think of the title. Aha! A LESSON BEFORE DYING?

Scootz, you saved my life. I didn't have another clue in my head.

Good hats, happy to relieve you!

I'll start a new one later on today. I find it hard because so many I didn't read and the ones I did are long ago. hard o think of clues kinda. Anyhoo, no whining, Cathie...I'll come back later with it.

Scootz, it is a relief. I am glad to pass the mantle. Take your time.

What great clues! You are a natural! Maybe the Wiz should be using you as his/her stand-in!

Scootz, congratulations!! I am not very good at doing the clues, therefore, I just read the fun here but haven't done any guessing.

JoanK

Here's a link to Sabbatini

Sabbatini

Your dad was right about his writing of his novels! But,hey, I was just a kid perusing all those titles when my step-father suggested that I might like him, and I did! I was surprised that he had written so many short stories and not very good ones, way back in 1900!

Oh Congratters, Scootz and Hats, great job! I agree, Ann, (Hats probably IS the Wiz~) hahahaaha

Very interesting links and conversation here on Sabbatini, I never heard of him!

Speaking of the Book Wizard, there are only 4 days left to guess a title or author and if nobody get it by Monday the Wiz has Won and boy howdy we'll never hear the end of it, so take your thinking caps on down, see the list of authors guessed in the heading and if you win, you'll have a nice prize and the honor of being the Champion for a long time.

Nice prizes there!

Bill's Books into Movies is hot on the trail discussing the Da Vinci Code, Memoirs of a Geisha, and the Poseidon Adventure, come on down. At the moment we're asking WHY the fuss over the DaVinci Code? What do YOU think? Come on down!

WHERE you say? WHERE "come on down?" Look UP in the heading of every page on SN to the black border. Right under the title SeniorNet in huge letters are the words Discussion & Chat, this is a clickable. Click on it and see Books & Literature. Click on IT and scroll down for the entire menu, find the Name that Book Contest, Books Into Movies and so much more.

OR look up in the heading here for this: Scroll down the main Books Menu page, http://www.seniornet.org/books, to see a our offerings and join in anything that looks to be of interest to you and join right in.

If you are interested in our Prison Library Project you'll want to come over there and see that two new states, CT and NC are starting their own. Come talk to us over there about THAT.

Great job on the Pick a Plot now today since nobody got the Literary Rose challenge, here it is John Clare rose A pretty thing and makes something like 6 buds in addition to every flower, a unique thing.

I am really enjoying David Austin's book The English Roses, for a lot of reasons. It's huge and a coffee table book, giant photos, but also it's his diffident and charming way of talking about each rose and why he named it and its characteristics that I find so interesting. You would NEVER know from his modest demeanor that he in fact changed the entire world of roses forever.

He says:

Named after the poet John Clare, who was a farm worker but eventually became one of the foremost nature poets in the English language.

I had never heard of John Clare, so here is something HE wrote, just for us. (That song from the Disney movie was right, "You can learn a lot of things from the flowers…" hahaha can sing that one too.

Here are The Poems of John Clare

And here's a sample *( you may find one you like better, but I like chickens):

Hen's Nest

Among the orchard weeds, from every search,
Snugly and sure, the old hen’s nest is made,
Who cackles every morning from her perch
To tell the servant girl new eggs are laid;
Who lays her washing by, and far and near
Goes seeking all about from day to day,
And stung with nettles tramples everywhere;
But still the cackling pullet lays away.
The boy on Sundays goes the stack to pull
In hopes to find her there, but naught is seen,
And takes his hat and thinks to find it full,
She’s laid so long so many might have been.
But naught is found and all is given o’er
Till the young brood come chirping to the door

Our newest Literary Rose Entry is Mary Rose . Now this rose is NOT literary but historic, does it ring any bells?? It's a gorgeous thing, too, light pink (am taking them as the occur in the book) and has several famous offspring, including Winchester Cathedral (white), and Redoute, (dark pink). That last was named after Pierre-Joseph Redoute (1759-1840) one of the first in a long "tradition of rose painter in France and certainly the most accomplished."

I am almost thru the Poseidon Adventure and it's quite something else, the book, that is, and am glad I read it. My newest challenge is Sunday's Sunday dinner from a cookbook I bought in Greece, which says, I now notice hysterically, "cook in a strong oven." Would anybody have any idea what that might be?

Need to know this by Sunday?!?

The Curious Minds on Immigration is going strong, drop in there also, see click on the chart of Current, Coming and Proposed Individual Book Discussions"> in the heading here. Every thing pretty much you need you can find either in the heading here or in the links above it, don't forget to check them!

Thanks, Jane for this new area.

Yes on Roth and didn't he get a big award or something for the most recent Rabbit? I am afraid to see what Rabbit is doing now, Roth IS a good writer, that's his problem. He's engrossing, you get swept up in that world to such a degree that you can't get OUT, I did not realize what was happening till I got well into the second book when I put it down and changed to somebody else and realized the spell he had me under.

I've got one more night's reading in the Poseidon and then have a choice of three: A Field of Darkness by Cornelia Read, new hardback and looks fabulous the NY Times went on and on about it week before last, At the Villa of Reduced Circumstances by Alexander McCall Smith (I know a lot of you have read him, have you read this one?) and The Devil Wears Prada and I am really looking forward to all three, it's strange what interests you in the summer, or it is me, anyway.

I have never read any Karen Blixen, is that how you spell her name? I was intrigued by the descriptions of her in The Flame Trees of Thika trio, (and of course who could forget Meryl Streep intoning "I had a farm in Ahfrica," a million times). Have any of you read it? She would have to GO some to beat Elspeth Huxley's three, in fact I think I need to read hers FIRST, I just got a nice new copy of Flame Trees in the mail.

How do those of you who have read them, Huxley and Baroness Blixen, compare them?

What are YOU reading?? Do you seem to prefer the heavier more serious books in the summer or does it not matter to you?

Wow Ginny,

Roses and poems in one place is great! Thanks! That rose is just gorgeous. It takes my breath away.

Ginny, you said hysterically, cook in a strong oven.
How 'bout jumping over to the Cooking discussion for an answer, and more, from me.
I can't find it in the book section; it moved to general discussions!

Thank you Mippy. The Recipe Books discussion has not "moved," at all, it was actually a link from the Culinary Arts discussion on the Main Menu (qv) of SeniorNet, displaying here in the Books as well. It originates, along with all the other "Recipe" discussions, there, and we just deleted the link here as we're going to try to concentrate on being sure our own Book listings are current, lively, and viable. I'll join you in SN's Culinary Arts discussion. I do need to know, thanks.

And now that I've been there I see you are saying 375 degrees, thank you very much!

Ginny, "strong" would be for very "hot", I am sure; just a bad translation. lol

from the non- fiction folder (you only have to scroll through half as many titles)

Clue #1- a personal journey (heh, I know how to be as obtuse as the next guy)

Ginny, I'm not reading anything besides Cather just now. The new Julia Glass comes out Tuesday (can't wait) and I don't want to start anything new just now.

Clue #2

checking out

Clue #3-

givin' it all away

Karen Blixen was the author's maiden name. She wrote under the name of Isak Dinesen.

Another exquisite rose! Thank you, GINNY! June is known in Europe as the 'month of roses', and my mother made much of that fact because I was born in that month. I loved them all my life.

The very first thing we planted in the garden of our first home in this country, in Arlington, Virginia, were roses. We gloried in their beauty and despaired when they were all eaten by Japanese beetles that summer. We never planted another bush.

"Couldn't Keep It To Myself" by Wally Lamb?? Or,or

Ghandi, the Story of My Experiments With Truth" by Ghandi??

Nope,sorry. Try again, Ann.

Sorry to have misnamed you! I will try again. Let's see,

What about "Abraham" by Bruce Feiler?

Jane

When using the Book Nook in the bar, I am getting the old Book Nook folder.

Ann,

Sorry again. I can't give another clue till Monday, assuming it's not guessed. I hadn't realized I was only to give one clue per day. My bad.

"I'm a Stranger Here Myself" by Bill Bryson?

If you are only allowed one clue a day, what happens this weekend? I think three clues in how many days? Hmmm, Sunday should be a qualified day.

Hey, are we limited to one guess a day, also, like in the BIG GAME led by the WIZ?

Ann,

I like how you put it. The "Big Game" led by The Wiz.

I gave three clues, should have only given one a day. Now, I'm told I can't give any more clues till Monday. I apologize for that. I don't know about guesses- and that last one is still not correct, Ann.

Scootz,

I didn't know that rule either. I just wanted someone to win so badly. I kept giving clues. It's alright. We learn as the game goes along. I might have given too many clues. At least, someone won. Now who did win???

Good clues, though, Scootz.. I'm still searching the Archives. I'm not the best non-fiction reader.

Scootz, as a painter, I love your Willa Cather quote. Thanks.

Mary Z-

Thanks! You're the only one who has mentioned my Cather quotes. She considered herself an artist too- with words.

This one I will print out to keep in my studio, and pass on to learning artists that I have contact with.

It is very beautiful, isn't it? What kind of painting do you do, Mary? My Mom paints- sort of impressionist style...though she hasn't now in many years.

Scootz, I do a loose impressionist style or abstracts in watercolor, and large spashy abstract pieces on canvas or board in acrylics. I don't paint as much as I should, but I'm always around painters. It's a big part of my life.

Subject: I'll make a deal with you . . .

A young boy had just gotten his driver's permit and inquired of his father, if they could discuss his use of the car.

His father said, "I'll make a deal with you. You bring your grades up from a C to a B average, study your Bible a little, get your hair cut and we'll talk about the car."

Well, the boy thought about that for a moment, and settle for the offer, and they agreed on it. After about six weeks they went in to the study, where his father said, "Son, I've been real proud. You've brought you're grades up, and I've observed that you have been studying your Bible, and participating a lot more in the Bible study groups. But, I'm real disappointed, since you haven't gotten your hair cut."

The young man paused a moment, and then said, "You know, Dad, I've been thinking about that, and I've noticed in my studies of the Bible that Samson had long hair, John the Baptist had long hair, Moses had long hair and there's even a strong argument that Jesus had long hair also."

To this his father replied, "Did you also notice they all walked everywhere they went?"

A strong oven generally means hot.. and that would be 450...Isak Dinesen and Elspeth Huxley.. I love Huxley read everything of hers I could get my hands on. Isak is a bit more difficult, but the biographies of her and her relationships are wonderful. Flame Trees is one of my favorite books. I loved that little girl in a far away world.

hehehehe love it Ann...!

Ann that is SO priceless, the perfect rejoinder!!

Love it, many thanks!

Great clues, what on earth can it BE? Love it! Yes one per day is good because we can't keep up with them in the heading, many thanks!

The clues remind me of that guy who chucked it all and travelled across country, Blue something, but I don't think it's in our archives, who chucked it all (sounds like the Albert Brooks movie Lost in America). Yesterday they ran Midnight in the GArden of Good and Evil again on TV but I missed half of it with a vacuum cleaner crisis, I'll do NETFLIX~!

Thank you Traude, the more I read the David Austin book the more I love it, nobody knows who or what "Mary Rose" was?

Well I finished the Poseidon Adventure and put it up on the Book Exchange, can't send it to the Prison Library Project, it has explicit violence but (makes you wonder what they did with the hundred or so DaVinci Codes donated, now, huh?) Speaking of the DaVinci Code, reports are now coming in from people who have seen it, see Books Into Movies for more!

Speaking of the Prison Library Project, come see CT and NC coming in, welcome them aboard!

But I did finish, I am not sure what he is saying at the end, about religion, about much of anything, so it would be a great one to compare to the movie and see what's what. Or to talk about here.

I finished An Ordinary Man by Paul Rusesabagina if that is spelled correctly and IT is really searing, as you would expect. He insists he's no hero; I think by any standards he's quite a guy. Have you all seen Hotel Rwanda?

I've started the Devil Wears Prada, Stephanie, and I have to admit it's a guilty pleasure. I love it. We're thrown immediately onto the streets of Manhattan into the fashion world, or somebody trying to make it as an assistant in the fashion world. It would not be to everybody's taste, but I like it, so far. Some troubling things, possibly tasteless.

The author seems to have a wonderful sense of humor, and it's light, a beach book, and may also be "chick lit" as you said, Stephanie, but that's a strange world, too, that they live in. I recall when we lived in NJ, the girl across the street, who was my age, was a model, and did hair commercials as I recall. They would strip her hair white in order that the lights might display properly whatever "color" they were featuring. At the time I was very tall for my age (5'11 when I was 17) and stick thin (due to unhealthy dieting) and so her mother insisted I go along with her to NYC one day to her Agent's office, said agent took one look at me and said, I'll never forget it, (without being asked, mind you), "get the nose done, lose 20 pounds and come back and see us." If I had lost 20 pounds I would have been dead but I should possibly have listened about the nose. NOW of course I'd like to lose 80 pounds, I bet she'd love me now. (I still have one of those stiletto skirts from that time, I would do well to get one leg in it now). Hahahaa A harsh world, I'm enjoying reading this outsider's fight with it: the world of "Appearance!!"

Tyra Banks, an ex model, is quite outspoken about this world and I'm enjoying vicariously being "part" of it.

Books are wonderful, aren't they? You can "enter" a world and emerge unsinged! YOU have the control.

When we meet the protagonist she's trying to drive her boss's $84,000 Porche across town, and is not overly familiar with the stick shift. I can actually sympathize with that, because all stick shifts are not the same. We had an old farm truck with manual stick shift drive, 3 gears, and reverse, that we drove here and the children learned on, but I had to drive my son's Z car once and the thing has a billion gears, no joke, something like 6 forward, but that did not trouble me? I simply drove in 3rd. I got to 3rd, which itself was no mean feat, and figured I had done well. I figured that scream from the engine meant "all is well here, keep going." And so I did, all the way.

I hate that rolling backwards on hills when you drive a manual transmission the most. Talk about wearing out the clutch, can you all drive a stick shift?

In Italy, going around the Amalfi Coast this year, I had a driver for once and his car had I don't know how many gears and he said European cars were all manual and American cars with automatic transmissions would burn out on their hills. I am not sure he's not right, such straight up and straight down tiny curving streets, the Amalfi Coast and Positano. I was amazed at one point on a narrow street, only wide enough for one car but two trying to pass that his right side mirror quietly folded itself against the car as it got too close to the wall on the right. I had to ask about that. He seemed surprised and said doesn't YOURS do that? Er NO? NO it does not do that and if it did I would probably faint? Hahahaa

No folding mirrors and no 16 forward gears for me, either. Get in, pat the dashboard, and if it goes, you're ok.

Apparently I look German. I must start traveling in Germany. I was waiting on a street corner in Bacoli, when a German tour guide, making a head count, counted me right along with them, and started off? ER? NOT?

Books are such vicarious pleasures. What are YOU reading? Where are YOU now as you immerse yourself in your latest book? It might be fun to hear where YOU are? I'm in Manhattan, in the offices of a Fashion Magazine, and living the fast life, they have clothes for US in a general "Closet" so we can always appear chic? It's something else, I guess my sweats won't do?

Where are YOU?

I am in Denver traveling to a little town. Dunnings next to last Bookman, now in paper. He is going to help his live ins best friend, who is accused of killing her husband. I do love Dunning. But I am also in the mid 20's with the professor learning a lot of troubling things about Tom and his invention.. Aha.. a plot, so I am enjoying the book more now.

I'm still in mid-19th century England with one of my very, very favorite authors, Trollope. Now in the middle of Phineas Redux, with 2 or 3 more books in the parliamentary series to go.

Meanwhile, I'm in NYC in a light Victorian-period mystery by Victoria Thompson, called Murder on Marble Row. If you like period mysteries, start with the first one in the series Murder on Astor Place. Sometimes, for me, mysteries like these are perfect for the half hour before bedtime.

I'm also in the 1950s, and earlier, in Paris and other cities of note, with Julia Child in a posthumous memoire edited by her grand-nephew, Alex Prud'homme, entitled My Life in France. Oh, gosh, I love this book! If you liked Julia's style in her cookbooks, you will absolutely love this book! What joie de vivre!

I'm finally reading "The Discovers" I love Boorstin and this is an expecially interesting book about people through history who discover not only new geography, but new ideas. Barbara Tuchman said it is "a new and fascinating approach to history." McCullough said "History at its best." The Washington POst reviewer said "I cannot recall another book from which i learned so many new things." It's fun, fun, fun!

Ginny, i learned to drive a manual transmission first in a pick-up truck and then in a 56 Rambler, you know, the one w/ the front seats that folded back into the back seats - great to take to the drive-in movie. I wonder why they decided to put in that feature, what were they thinking people would use it for????

I hated hills also. JUst held my breath everytime i sat at the top of the hill coming out of our high school w/ school buses roaring and breathing down on my backside. It was much like the hill at Church ST and Main St in Moorestown, maybe even steeper at the top. OOOOHHHHHH Jean don't embarass yourself, work that clutch!!! But once i got it, i loved driving a standard transmission and i never did embarass myself, never lost it or drifted back into that bus!!.........jean

Yes, I can drive a manual, but have not done so in many years.

Your post is funny familiar, Ginny. I learned to drive a stick shift on a Porsche, my first car, and my only car for a while. Then I joined the army, and they needed women to drive in boot camp. Anyone with experience with a stick shift had to take the driving test. You don't get to practice, they just put you in a 1950s International Harvester 5-ton with 3 gears, plus reverse and if you make it out of the parking lot, around the block on the hills of Fort Jackson, South Carolina, and back without killing or hitting anyone or damaging the vehicle you get your license. I took out a fence, but it's only people or the vehicle that count so I got my license. Needless to say, even soldiers on crutches chose to walk the 3-miles to the ranges carrying their M-16s rather than get behind the wheel with me.

Car mirrors fold in America, too. I drive on jeep trails in mining country that are somewhat less than a vehicle wide and my mirror folds nicely so I can get at least half a wheel on the road on the far side. Having the mirror fold versus having the wheel off the road is an easy choice.

While field mapping east of the Sierra one year, I had two very petite women on my crew who had never driven Suburbans, although they both had driven stick shifts. They wanted to drive when we went out on the town, so I said fine, you drive, I'll sleep in the back seat. One never gets enough sleep in the field.

In spite of the screams about all the rabbits jumping out in front of the vehicle along the dirt road to the paved road that takes you to the dam override to the road that eventually gets you to the highway, I got some good sleep until I was thrown off the seat with a lurch. The had somehow driven the passenger side front wheel up onto a highway sign, the one pointing to the dam(n) road. I evaluated the situation, told the driver to put it into 4-wheel drive and drive it off the sign. Well, this was a brand new Suburban and, what I didn't know was that it had 4-high and 4-low. The driver chose 4-high for some reason. Then stepped on the gas. Thereby removing all the sand under the rear passenger side wheel.

So we were now in the middle of nowhere with our car held up by a highway sign. The two petite women had to stand on the hill of sand and the highway sign to gain leverage to push the truck away from the sign without getting themselves killed while I put it in 4-low, this time, and drove it forward. One shot to get it right. They were more talented at complex life-threatening gymnastics maneuvers than driving, though, and the vehicle came off the sign.

The Discoverers is a great series. The world of high fashion models is strange. I had lots of friends who modeled when I was a teenager so I watch Tyra Banks' show America's Next Top Model. The agents don't know everything. Tyra Banks never weighed less than 20 pound more than the heaviest model in her height range and was always one of the top. Jessica Simpson's little sister just exchanged her real nose for a blank piece of toast. Personality? Who needs it, when one can be a carbon copy of the fake plastic world of celebrity and look like nothing.

Kleo

This is the time of year when my heart soars - the fawns born two weeks ago have sorted themselves out or should I say the does have sorted out who will take care of both fawns.

And of course the fawns are left for longer and longer bits of time while mom/step-mom grazes and rests - they tried to follow her this morning but she walked them back and however the communication they were told to stay - the two looked at her leave but did not follow - Well it is 98 or 99 this afternoon and these two actually moved out of the sun [often where mama puts them they stay till she returns regardless their panting] - and so I have one sitting on the patio under the wrought iron table head high looking and another 8 feet away on the lawn under the shade of the big oak sleeping with its head tucked under its hind leg.

As to where I am - never one to read one book at a time like a time traveler I am in 1930s Berchtesgaden with Irmgard A. Hunt who is telling us her story about living on Hitler's Mountain.

And then I go back in time to the very early 1900s Japan as Natsume Soseki writes during the Meiji era, when most writers in Japan adapt to the western style of writing where as he keeps true to his roots that he explains while in a country resort hotel and involved in a series of mysterious happenings with the owners daughter. "The Three Cornered World" by Natsume Soseki 1867- 1916 author of "I Am a Cat" that if you read "Kafka on the Shore" by Murakami you know about "I Am a Cat."

And finally I am in the great Maze in the city of Labirinto with the best mask-maker in Venice, the deadliest duelist in Milan, Fabrizio who speaks with a stutter and Emninia, the siren, condemned to silent exile far from the sea and her native island, as they journey across Renaissance Italy with adventures and magic to meet in the great Labyrinth where their adventures are more baroque and comical as they all head for the center of the maze and hopefully achieve their hearts desire. "The Innamorati" by Midori Snyder.

I've just listened to an interview on BookTV of Madeleine Albright discussing her new book, The Mighty and the Almighty. She is a fascinating woman, with a great insight on the world today. This one will go on my reading list.

GINNY, I think the travelin' book you referred to is "Blue Highways". All the 'travelin' took place on the roads that are printed in blue on the maps. The author wanted to meet and talk with the people along the way and see country you can't see from the Interstates. What was his name, now...

Shucks, I just went and looked it up. So much easier. How could I forget William Least Heat Moon!

Babi

Mary - Will have to get that Madeline Albright book myself. I greatly admired her skill in her Secretary of State role. She was a great Ambassador for the US during her term of office.

Carolyn

just to allow Madeline Albright to run for president, don't you? Who cares if she wasn't born in the U.S.?

Ginny - The Devil Wears Prada is being made into a movie w/ Meryl Streep playing the diva and the young woman from The Princess Diaries playing the lead character. Doesn't that sound delicious?.....jean

I finally caught up on the posts. Whew! I was glad to see that some others enjoyed some Sabatini novels as much as I did. I had never heard of him until my sister-in-law gave me Captain Blood last year for my birthday, knowing I enjoyed the Hornblower and Aubrey naval series. I had seen the Errol Flynn movie Captain Blood, but had never heard of the book's author. Sabatini's novels are wonderful! I understand he was a historian and wrote non-fiction, as well. One is Torquemada and the Spanish Inquisition. I should check that out now that I'm reading Don Quixote.

What terrible tragedies Sabatini endured with the awful accidental deaths of his children.

I never heard of Captain Blood and Sabatini. But I love Aubrey and Hornblower. So I'll probably like him.

I loved "Blue Highways". And got thoroughly tired of Rabbit and John Updike. Can anyone see why it's considered such a great book?

"Beloved" was the most intensely emotional book I ever read. I felt like I had been run over by a truck after I finished it. There's no doubt it's a great book. But I admit it scared me off of reading her other books. Has anyone read "Shula"?

When I'm not in 17th Century Spain with the Don or 17th century Holland with Rembrandt, I'm in Atlanta with a disappointing mystery I'm about to give up on. I'm moving to Tuscany (wouldn't I'd like to) for "The Last Promise". (Can't remember the author), I'll tell you if it's good (If I don't come back, look in Florence first).

Ok, It's Monday so I'm assuming I can give another clue. here it is:

think cold

BTW- is it bad to pick non fiction as I did, meaning less people read this?

I have been waiting till Tuesday (tomorrow) till the new Julia Glass comes out and it is driving me crazy to be without a book! I don't want to get too far ahead in my Cather, and I've been reading some short stories, etc, but I'm afraid it's just not satisfying that need I have for being involved in a book. I almost broke down yeterday and started something from my shelf, but didn't cuz I knew I'd be sorry. I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't read and I hope heaven has a very big library.

Thanks for the heads up. A new book about Julia, my heroine. Must look for it. Victoria Thompson. I do love her books and had almost forgotten her. So thanks again. I always find new information on senior net.. Always..

How about "Climb" by Anatoli Boukreev?

Do you all agree that there are only 2 or 3 human stories?......jean

Stephanie,

I think you may have misunderstood me. I am talking about the author Julia Glass, but I think you're talking about the Miss Julia books, correct? Glass' new book is The whole World Over and she also wrote Three Junes, for which she won the National Book Award.

Ann, Oh, sorry that's not the correct answer. Try again!

Jean,

I definitely agree with the quote. A couple or three stories, and all the rest are variations thereof.

Hi Ginny - I'm somewhere up around Lake Michigan in the prof's house and take the odd break by stumbling along after Don Q and Sancho - miles to go in both cases.

Mary Rose was one of King Henry VIII's warships - named after Mary Tudor (his sister) During a naval engagement the Mary Rose was hit by a sudden strong gust of wind when her gun-ports were open and she filled up with water and sank Kaput! The ship was lifted from the seabed about 30 years ago and reconstructed in UK. Does that help?

"In 2004, after the National Book Award nominees were announced—in an act of apparent rebelliousness, the judges had chosen five short, lyrical books by women, leaving off Philip Roth's Plot Against America—Caryn James wrote in the New York Times that the real problem with the finalists was not that they were unknown, but that they did not write "big, sprawling novels."

What's been lost in the conflation of "small" and "small-minded" is the recognition that small books can be powerful vehicles for big ideas—to say nothing of powerful examples of aesthetic rigor. In his otherwise astute essay accompanying the Times' list, A.O. Scott succumbed to a form of category confusion when he explained the absence of Marilynne Robinson's Housekeeping and Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried in the top five by noting that they are "small" books that do not "generalize" but "document"—a peculiar misreading of both novels, which hardly shy away from probing large themes, and do so with metaphoric richness. In fact, plenty of big novels do far more documenting than these two masterpieces."

Big novels vs small? What do we think that bigger is better in so many areas of our lives? I hate the big stores that take 3 times as long to shop in as the smaller ones, for example.......jean

http://www.slate.com/id/2142095/

This reminds me of the lists solicited and prepared by all and sundry just ahead of the new millennium. Simply everyone felt compelled to do the same. Wellesley College did one. I well remember that in AOL'S former book forum, which was still extant at that time, we too composed one such list - and labored over it for a long time.

There is no one definitive list of anything, IMHO, that would meet with universal approval. And why should there be?

One could well question, for example, why Updike's Four Rabbit Books were chosen since only one volume actually meets the critera set by the NYT Review, i.e. to name "the single best work of Fiction published since 1980".

Also it turns out that 124 authors, critics and editors participated in the informal survey, not "a couple of hundred", as stated in the preliminary announcement.

We are already seeing commentary regarding that list, and more may be coming. I don't believe we can possibly be expected to subscribe automatically to choices made by others, no matter how prominnt and knowledgeabl they are, and I for one have no such intention.

BTW, the names of those who participated in the informal survey are listed in the latest NYT Review on pg. 16. Well worth reading is A.O. Scott's essay on "In Search of the Best" on pg. 17.

Oh gosh, now is that fair?

I think that probably the point is not that there are specifically 3 (although Cather would know the three she has in mind, I sure don't know which ones she did) - but, that in a more general, non-literal sense, that there are a finite number of themes about the human condition and all stories are built on them. That's about as best I can explain it. I really don't take the quote literally word for word.

So, maybe, say three themes could be love, ambition, and a search for knowledge/reason , and all stories are built on those.

Do you agree with it? Why, or why not?

I investigated and found this- very interesting! I do believe these could be the three of which Willa Cather spoke.

http://www.colinmj.com/cinema/3stories.html

Interesting site, Scootz, but would need further study. Three stories -- I'd say 1)The Quest, 2) Coming of age and 3)Love. But these could be big umbrellas, or under bigger umbrellas.

Right now I'm at the lake with the professor, but am also in China with Snow Flower and the Secret Fan, recommended by Ann Alden. Wonderful reading, but parts are so sad when you think of their hard life and the degradation of women. What with that and seeing the movie "Water" a week or so ago I'm going to need a snappy mystery "cozy" or some subtle humor. But no schmaltz or ridiculous slapstick.

I loved SNOW FLOWER, pedln- foot binding and all. That was one I sent on to my Mom who is 87. She loved it, too.

I love d that story and mailed it to my DIL. Well done!

No,, I meant Julia Child and her life in France. I am a big fan of that Julia.

Oh, ok, sorry then Stephanie, I misunderstood.

Clue #5-

This book is currently in production to be a film.(that's a clue within a clue) Sean Penn is writing, directing and starring.

____________________________________________________________________

Did anyone here read Michael Cunningham's SPECIMEN DAYS? I loved THE HOURS, and see that this new one is out in paper. I'm going to pick up that new Julia Glass today and will pick this one up as well, unless I hear differently here. Anyone?

I'll also be buying the new Dixie Chicks CD. Who knows if I will get out of the store alive? If I don't reappear by dusk, please send out the Texas Rangers after me, k?

Jon Krakauer's Into the Wild.

The Mary Rose was a very fun archaeological find because of all the history of the ship. I suspect that David Austin and I move in very similar worlds. One thing I love about working at a world-class garden is all the folks who are also literary minded, and interested in the sciences.

Well, I'm running out of time lately, and probably won't get into the Willa Cather discussion this time around.

Kleo

You're on, Kleo!! Good job.

Watch for her clues -- one a day.

Traude, thanks for the heads up on A.O. Scott's article about the best novel of the last 25 years. To my mind, such lists are always interesting, sometimes movtivating, but should be taken with a grain of salt. As many of the participants said, they had not read all the books published. I thought the following, from the rather long article, to be interesting.

"Their seniority, needless to say, is earned - they have had plenty of time to ripen and grow - but it is nonetheless startling to see how thoroughly American writing is dominated by this generation. Startling in part because it reveals that the baby boom, long ascendant in popular culture and increasingly so in politics and business, has not produced a great novel. The best writers born immediately after the war seem almost programmatically to disdain the grand, synthesizing ambitions of their elders (and also some of their juniors), trafficking in irony, diffidence and the cultivation of small quirks rather than large idiosyncrasies. Only two books whose authors were born just after the war received more than two votes: "Housekeeping," by Marilynne Robinson, and "The Things They Carried," by Tim O'Brien. These are brilliant books, but they are also careful, small and precise. They do not generalize; they document. Ann Beattie, born in 1947, is among the most gifted and prolific fiction writers of her generation, but her books are nowhere to be found on this list; not, I would venture, because she fails to live up to the survey's implicit criterion of importance, but because she steadfastly refuses to try."

Thanks to Mabel and Traude for posting those articles. I printed both out, am only half way through the A. O. Scott one.

The first article I thought was boring in the extreme, and I wasted six sheets of printing paper, imho. I don't need to read six pages of print to get the single point- why are short books not on the list?

The Scott article, however, is very smartly written and most interesting.

I admit to being interested in lists. I like to see what others think is fine literature, especially what highly intelligent, gifted people think is fine literature. But, I feel no compulsion to read them all. ULYSSES may be on every list from now till my death, but I'll go to my grave having not read it- and not unhappily so. I only feel compelled to read what interests me any more.

I might add- it's not so much the shortness of a book and it's exclusion from the lists that bothers me, but as a lay person- why must they all be so difficult? I don't mind long, but I do mind very obtuse and hard to read. Just my $.02.

Scootz: I didn't read the book The Hours, but saw the film What a story! I loved that film. And the music by Philip Glass. Haunting.

I'm a Dixie Chicks fan, too.

I saw something done last night that was a first for me. At the end of the TV show "Medium" in which a Dixie Chicks song played, their album was featured - a full-blown ad instead of just inclusion in the credits run at the end of the show. The screen showed a picture of their latest album (from which the song was selected) and a narrator explained that the song in the show had been from that album. Have you ever seen anything like that before on TV? Usually, when I like a song used in a show, I have to go to the show's site on the web and look it up.

Do any of you watch Imus in the morning (MSNBC)? Yesterday Imus put in a few good words for the Dixie Chicks' new album, several times.

This radio (now on TV) show isn't to everyone's taste, but Don Imus really lets his interviewees talk (often by phone) instead of interrupting them as every other interviewer on TV (Book TV excepted) does.

I'm actually safely back home, Glass book, Cunningham book, and the CD in hand!

marni- We saw the Dixie Chicks live here in Dallas soon after the big kerfuffle over them. ( read soon after Natalie expressed an opinion, which last time I checked is what we all say we pride ourselves on here in the good old US of A) Saw an interview last week where Natalie said there had been a very specific death threat on her that night. Yikes! and we were there! Thank God nothing happened. Great, great concert, too , btw. I look forward to listening to the cd this aft, big ole glass of iced tea and my new book. Life is good!

No, I have never seen anything such as you describe on a tv show ending before. It's become very "in" to end your show with a song these days, but never saw an ad like you talk about.

Loved The Hours movie, too.

I agree with Deems that Imus in the Morning isn't for everyone; but I really, really like him. He's seems to be so opinionated, but then suddenly you notice he's completely open-minded. And sometimes he acts like such a bossy, spoiled brat, but then there he is running his ranch for kids with cancer and supporting the SIDS foundation. He so often refers to himself as dumb, but he's very well read, not to mention up on current issues, trends, politics, music. I thought my husband was crazy when he began tuning in Imus first thing in the morning, but now I'm really enjoying the show. ~JudyS

It's nice to see Willa Cather and her book about the St. Peter household spill over into this forum. Scootz suggests that the three themes Cather might have in mind are love, ambition, and the search for knowledge. I'll go along with 'search for knowledge', but the other two, after thinking long and hard about her curious book, I would say are, for Cather, that money is the root of evil, and that the search for comfort is both illusory and negative. But we've only just started the book, why don't you all come over and help us search for themes.

Scootz suggests that the three themes Cather might have in mind are love, ambition, and the search for knowledge.

Joanathan, Actually, I said that I couldn't know what Cather thought they were. I was making a stab at what I thought three themes could be.

You and Pedin stepped right up to the plate and answered the question.

I'm w/ you about Ulysses - will never pass my nightstand!

I heard the Dixie Chicks title song "Not REady to Make NIce" on my Yahoo radio station, I really liked it. (I just can't get my little finger off of that shift key fast enough) I have liked a lot of their music and their tv concerts were wonderful. Isn't it ironic that the people whothink they are so "patriotic" in blasting the DC's aren't acknowledging her American right to speak her mind??? What's wrong w/ that juxtaposition?......jean

Because, Jean, unlike you, their minds are like closed parachutes! Sue

Hmmmm, it seems that some here don't agree with the--You're on my side or you're against God argument.

YAY!

I get newsletters from Oprah, and I see that she will be doing a show tomorrow about the Weisel book. But, does anyone know when she's announcing her next book club choice? I don't ever watch her show so I don't know when it's coming and I do like to watch when she announces. TIA..............

Many of you are wondering about what happened to Miss Martha. Ginny you in particular. Yes we have a huge fenced yard and I thought Miss Martha was out there she was last time I glanced. She had gone in the garage with my husband Don. He did not have the guard he built in the garage door in thinking he could keep an eye on her. Let me tell you you could not keep an eye on Martha. He glanced away, she ran and was hit by a car. I believe she was dead when he brought her in but in true Judy fashion I panicked had Billy on the phone and raced to the vet at the bottom of the hill where they did every procedure but she was gone.

The pain was unlike anything I had experienced before as I have never lost a pet or a person to anything but old age or as with Buddy cancer. We suffered and still continue. Don tells me he wakes up and sees Martha's eyes. Not good.

The consensus of opinion between family and friends was we get a new dog as soon as possible so a week late came Miss Emma. She is the sweetest dog and much different personality than Martha. Martha is greatly missed and Miss Emma is greatly loved. So we all continue on. We received flowers, plants and card for Martha it was amazing how many people she effected in such a short period of time.

Judy Laird
these pictures will allow you to meet Miss Emma.

Oh Judy Miss Emma is precious, just a doll, love the black over her eyes, love the markings! I see Don with her and I'm glad you got such a sweet one. I am sorry for your pain but I have a feeling Miss Emma will help a lot, thank you for showing us and thank you Pat for helping get the photos up, that is a precious dog.

(She looks spoiled already and I have a feeling she is!) hahaah Wonderful photo of Don.

Judy I am so very sorry about Martha I was terribly upset too when I read about it. May I give some very gentle advice. I have until recently been a dog minder for 10 yrs for other bichon frise owners. I learned that you can never trust dogs in the open off leash. NEVER! The most obedient dog will take off after something that caught their interest. Its just instinct.

I am glad you have a new pet. There is nothing so traumatic as losing a pet in an accident.

Miss Emma is very sweet. I am sure she will bring many happy hours to your day.

Carolyn

Dear Judy,

Thank you for letting us know what happened to Miss Martha and especially for showing us photos of Miss Emma. Your solution to the haunting (seeing the eyes in the night) was mine also.

Dog before the dog before the ones we have now, a sweet French poodle of the medium size, Scottie, died of old age (he had a congenital heart condition and still made it to 13). He was at the clippers when he simply was found to be dead in the cage while waiting to be clipped. He had felt so frail to me for several weeks.

Anyway the clipper felt awful, and I kept hearing Scottie's toenails coming up the stairs after we went to bed. Almost every night, dog paws on the stairs.

I started paying close attention to my carpool mate's stories of her brother and the Welsh Terrier litter that had just been born.

You know the end of the story, we got the little male from that litter. Named him Demi (short for Dmitry). He also made it to about 12-13.

And now there are the two Jack Russell Terriers--the ones in my photo. They are, I discovered the other day, now almost ten and almost nine. Yikes.

Maryal

But it looks like Miss Emma has made herself right at home, she knew which home to choose is my bet, what a doll. Enjoy her........jean

My two dogs both have congenital heart defects. They are now 11 and a half and every day now is a bonus that we get to be together. I have decided that when my two pass on I will give my name to the SPCA and will take the first non allergenic small dog ( poodle or bichon) that gets handed in. I don't think I want to train puppies again. If my feral cats ever get brave enough to come in the door I will most likely just have the cats. One of them is getting very very tame now.

Carolyn

We have a 14 year old chocolate lab/shephard mix. He's doing pretty well except for some stiffness and ear infections. But we know at "100" he can't continue very much longer. Altho we got him at the shelter - we always have gotten our dogs at shelters - we've had him for 14 years, so he's really a member of the family. .....jean

Judy, what a cutie! I am sure both of you will find much happiness with Miss Emma. Let's see more pictures! Bubble

Jean - Your lab cross is doing very well to be still here at age 14! You must have done something right!

Carolyn

I am so happy about Miss Emma. I know she will fill your heart with joy. Miss Emma looks like she could lap up a lot of love and give all that love back again. Miss Emma is adorable.

I am going to look at Oprah today too. I didn't read "Night" yet. I do plan to read it. She might tell the name of the next book during the show.

hats,

I thought that too Hats. I think the show is in two parts, so I'm not going to watch either. Let me know any news on her new choice if you hear it!

Scootz, sure will!

Kleo, where are you? Are you getting the new contest ready???

Thank you, Gum, for Mary Rose! That's another pink one so won't put it in here, but I am really enjoying the David Austin book and hearing where you all "are" in your reading! hahah It's amazing how books can take us away to another time or place or thing.

Am off to see the DaVinci Code so we can talk about it in the Books Into Movies, Pat has already seen it and says it's NOT so bad as everybody says.

Probably can't get IN the theater anyway.

Kleo, you've got quite a lot of experiences! Thank you for that funny look at your experience driving trucks!

Jean on the driving, I learned on a stick shift and I still have nightmares about crossing the Bristol Burlington Bridge. Narrow curving horror, so narrow that big trucks had to come INTO your lane when entering the last curve UP part on the Jersey side, back in the 50's. I truly have had nightmares on it.

They apparently "widened" it and so I told the kids about it as it used to be, and so the last time I took the kids to see where their mother grew up, I turned in at the bridge in a confidence which soon evaporated, it's still a horror. It may BE that the oncoming trucks no longer come INTO your lane as you are curving left and climbing up and changing gears, no pullout lane no nothing but you and your little lane and a semi half in it, but it's still a horror, just like the old Cooper River Bridge in Charleston which made our Books at the Beach folks' eyeballs run out on sticks last February, and the perfectly nauseating horror of I-95 from the Philadelphia Airport coming into Philly. Whoever builds those bridges in Phila has a sadistic temperament.

But it's not only Philadelphia and Charleston, what about PORTLAND OREGON! I would keel over and die from fright if I had to live there! Those overpasses! If you've been to Atlanta you know they can do spaghetti overpasses without causing you to have a heart attack! Anybody here from Portland or a veteran of their highway system?

Yes I'm also in Hamilton in the MidWest with the Professor and a marvelous crew on board but I feel as if we have stepped into some sort of Twilight Zone, completely different from what I expected, I am loving every minute of the fabulous discussion.

I did see the list that Traude was talking about in Sunday's NY Times, thank you Traude, and there were entirely too many DeLillo and Roth things on the semi final list for my taste, how much DeLillo have you all read? Who IS he?

Roth and Updike and DeLillo if the latter is spelled correctly? We've here in our Books never read ONE, have we?

Judy, I still don't know how a car would be speeding thru your neighborhood! Did the driver stop?

Ginny, If it's not too much trouble, I would love to see "Mary Rose." All pinks are different.

OK!! Not one bit o trouble! Here's Mary Rose the ROSE (pretty thing, isn't it?)... Carolyn do you notice where that photo was made? Have you ever been there?.... and here's Mary Rose the Ship: a new discovery! and one of a million links on the boat itself!

Henry VIII think of that! I have said this somewhere before and apologize to everybody if it's old news to you, but the first time I visited Hampton Court I forced the group with me to take the boat down ("just like Henry VIII did from London! Think of that!") YES!!

Yeah. Well. Half of them no longer speak to me, no joke. It took ALL day. There was no Handel's Water Music (written for that occasion) playing. It was a boiling hot day but freezing simply freezing on the river and I ALMOST put on a seaman's totally filthy coat he had thrown on the ropes I was desperate, no heat, no way to get out of the cold. (In fact some of my most desperate moments have taken place in that most civilized country of England). But anyway it took all day. We then RAN thru that magnificent palace and took the train back to London when it closed, grousing all the way. NOT!@ The way to go. Take the train DOWN and the boat back, it's faster, too, going back. I LOVE Hampton Court Palace, they were filming Vanity Fair the last time I went with Ella of our Books and we got a billion still shots of the production, fascinating!

Our F2F for May is "The Second Mark" by Joy Goodwin. Subtitled: Courage, Corruption, and The Battle For Olympic Gold, the book is very well written and tells the story of the atheletes who went for the Gold in the pairs skating for the 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake City. The story is well told of each of their lives and how they became figure skaters, extremely interesting how different their separate growning years were in their three countries--China, Russia and Canada. If you love the Olympics and especially the figure skating, I highly recommend it.

I can see that you and Don are already loving her. I know you mourn Ms Martha but I think this new one is a keeper!

Ann,

I like figure skating. Thank you for the recommendation.

Miss Emma looks totally at home, JUDY, and perfectly comfortable. It's clear from the pictures. She's precious. She won't replace Miss Martha in your hearts but her presence will lessen your pain.

I still mourn for my last dog, a gentle Greyhound, with brindle markings. She was a former racing dog, not quite two years old, discarded for not being a winner.

Greyhounds are raised strictly for racing, housed in narrow individual cages under often appalling conditions, brought out only for training = learning to chase after mechanical rabbits, and later for races. When they don't make money, they are shipped off to be euthanized or, if they are lucky, rescued.
My Greyhound came from a racetrack in Connecticut, I was told when I adopted her one fine Sunday from Greyhound Friends, a rescue channel in Hopkinton, Massachusetts. She had been brought in the night before and had not been given a bath yet; the director was reluctant to let her go also because the animal was not spayed, which is the usual first step before adoption. But I promised to take care of all that, and we took her home. It was heartbreaking to watch: she had never seen stairs before, and my son had to guide her paw by paw up each step. She was called Fantasy while she raced, and I quickly renamed her Zola. She adjusted, became part of my life and learned to love the visiting grandchildren too. Of all the dogs we had, Zola was the greatest treasure.

Greyhounds are sight hounds: their sight is uniquely developed and, because of their training, they take off after anything that moves, even a leaf blowing across the road. That's why they must never be off the leash on the road and need to run in a fenced yard. Once they run, they don't stop. They just continue on blindly at speeds of 35 or 40 mph.

Whippets also are sight hounds. A short time ago (a month, two months?) a Whippet, the winner in a dog show in New York, broadcast on TV, escaped the minders on the way to (or in) the airport. An intensive search began at once, the dog was spotted in different places but, according to an update several weeks ago, had not been captured, nor reunited with the owner, at least to my knowledge. Such announcement would surely have made big news.

GINNY, I read "White Noise" by DeLillo some years ago and found it totally unapproachable and have not tried him since.

Oh, drat, I should have had a book in mind before I guessed or something, since I had a dreadfully full day at work and could not think of an extraneous thing.

Okay, Clue One:

When I first heard of this book I knew instantly what it was about because of the difficulties it proves for interfaith families, like mine, when you can't have ham all of a sudden.

Kleo

Judy, I'm so glad you have Miss Emma. She looks to be a sweetie.

Scootz, I do like your personal reading philosophy -- read what you want and what suits, not necessarily what's on the lists. Left to my own devices I'm a lightweight, lazy over easy. So thank goodness for SeniorNet, that nudges me towards books I might otherwise ignore. Not just for the books we discuss, but also for the many recommendations and encouragement from everyone.

kleo-

Is it fiction or non fiction? I'm not scrollin' till I know

We just finished Herman Wouk's The Caine Mutiny in my Oprah on-line club. We're reading a handful of mid-twentieth century prize winning books, not because we're in agreement with all those list-writers, Traude. What they provide, if they're good lists, well-thought out, and inclusive, is someone else's opinion about what's good reading. That's all.

The Caine Mutiny was an excellent read. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Wouk writes well, but his style is rather journalistic, something that turns me off. I've read his other two big best-sellers, and was not bothered by this style in those two (War and Remembrance and....). But we've read a few journalistic books in my club in the past few years, and I've been disappointed in the experience of reading those books. I'm not one who reads a book for the whole or the ending. I read for the enjoyment of reading while I'm reading. And this is something journalists don't provide, they provide information.

Caine is a great book about the human condition. It's compelling. It's well written. I wound up more confused, in spite of great enlightenment on many things, by reading and discussing it.

The rose garden where I work (very small part of the big garden) is just starting to fade its fantastic bloom of old roses, heucheras, and 6' columns of foxgloves. I had lunch with the gardener (and with dozens of other folks) yesterday and got some interesting dahlias from him for my garden. He is enamored of the 19th century English gardeners and their contribution to the world of horticulture and the way their garden plants represent the world of science.

When I see English garden plants I think of Darwin and Wallace and Huxley and wonder how seeing those plants, watching their hybridization, their seed exchanges, contributed to the world of knowledge in evolutionary biology today.

I'd put it right up there, fire, wheel, stirrup, garden, printing press.

Kleo

Many folks consider it nonfiction, but I consider it fiction.

Kleo

LOL...I think I'll sit this round out. I need to let someone else have a chance anyhoo.

I want to say "Back When We Were Grownups" by Anne Tyler. I bet that's wrong. What is it, Scootz? I am so sure you know it.

Kleo, I haven't read The Caine Mutiny in years. It's a wonderful book. I need to put that on my list to read again. And the movie, The Caine Mutiny, is one of the great movies of all time, IMHO. Humphrey Bogart gave a tour de force performance in this one.

Traude: Good for you for adopting your greyhound. I'm glad she was such a wonderful dog for you. The Plainfield, CT dog track still exists. It was not too far into the distant past that a humane group started the greyhound adoption program. The dogs all used to be put to sleep when their racing days were over.

Greyhounds make wonderful pets. They are the sweetest shyest doggies. Wonderful dogs. A greyhound was a member of the staff at my mother-in-law's assisted living facility. The dog visited members who were ill to cheer them up.

Nope, not Anne Tyler.

Kleo

Homecoming by Belva Plain

Nope, not Belva Plain.

Kleo

Nope, not that book and author. However, I'm not sure it's a bad guess, but maybe not for the reason that seems obvious, or at least the first obvious reason.

Kleo

Is the book in our Archivews, Kleo?

Yes, Traude, it's in the SeniorNet archives. I thought that was a rule, that it had to be in our archives. It's kinda nice have a lightweight guessing game next to the Wiz, isn't it? That helps, in our archives.

Kleo

Our granddaughter is here for a few days, since school is out in central Florida. We are taking her as a special treat to Disney today. She got very good grades this year and had perfect attendance.. She has struggled so with reading and is doing so much better now.

I guess he must have or he wouldn't be on any lists - that wouldn't be politically correct.

I gave up reading him in the '70's because of his bias. There was enough good stuff that wasn't demeaning to me that i didn't need to read books that said all the world's problems were women's fault......jean

Kleo,

Is it too early for the second clue? Today is the second day.

Mabel/Jean,
Roth was always a puzzlement to me, and for a while I gave up on him, temporarily (after "Portnoy's Complaint"). As a woman I felt like an alien in his 'realm' ---if that's the right word. No other term comes to mind.
I did read "The Human Stain" and took part in the discussion in B&L. Our local book group had a singularly spirited discussion about this book.

Re your question, I'd say no. I don't think his basic attitude toward women, society, or life itself has changed, at least as seen from my personal, obviously limited perspective. But in addition, Roth now rages against his diminishing physical strength and virility, unwilling to face the fact of his mortality.

I wonder, could basic insecurity be possibly part of, or reason for his so-called "attitude"? We know the many shades of this particular word.

Is it listed under Fiction or Non Fiction in the Archives??

How about "Leap of Faith" by Queen Noor?

It's in the fiction archives on SeniorNet. But I'm not sure if that's a fair question, where it is on SeniorNet. Maybe you should guess where it is.

Someone else wrote an earlier book on the same plot, although this second author's work is less well known than my author's work. This is actually a good plot clue to the author and the work.

No, not Queen Noor.

I leave for work at 5:30AM in the summer to beat the heat--I work outdoors, so I won't generally put up a morning clue if I'm doing this on hot weekdays at I work.

Kleo

I read that you considered it fiction but that some people consider it non-fiction or vice-versa, so my question, seemed fair to me. Scrolling, scrolling again!

Palace Walk by Naguib Mahfouz

I read that you considered it fiction but that some people consider it non-fiction or vice-versa, so my question, seemed fair to me. Scrolling, scrolling again!

Precisely why I decided to pass, too, Ann. ;)Scrolling is hard on my hands, never mind unnecessary scrolling. Someone with healthy wrists can do this one.

I am still on medication for Tendonitis. Plus, using ice. I feel so much better. Last week the pain became unbearable.

Roth. I really believe he hates women, most men and everyone in creation except himself. I gave him up years ago. Just too too depressing. Then Opdyke turned sour as well. Suppose its the aging male syndrome?

It's about a party. That it's fiction or not, considered one by some, the other by others, etc., etc., is a clue too. While SeniorNet classifies it as fiction, most on-line sources I've seen say otherwise.

Not Palace Walk. Mahfouz is easy, writes fiction well.

Kleo

Thanks for narrowing it down, kleo. Taking a stab just from the title I'll guess COUNTERFEIT CHRISTMAS? (didn't have to scroll far for that)

Om my gosh- just looked that book up- it's Nancy Drew. And nothing to do with mixed culture marriages. Ack! just forget I even said it. Color me red.>>>>

I'm not sure where the scrolling is? I'll look back and see if I can find the problem and get it corrected.

jane

Kleo ~
Just a guess (have not read the book)
Possession by A. S. Byatt

Jane ~
I think everyone is referring to scrolling through the Archive List. Is that it?

That's what I meant, at least, yes, lots of scrolling through to find a title. Twice as much if you don't have a category. Some of us need all the help we can get.

Yesterday's USA Today had their annual Beach/Summer Reads Pull Out section. It included the new Julia Glass that I'm currently reading as well as lots of others.

I used to like a good "Beach Read", but I find as I get older, I seem to have less and less patience for the more fluffy reads. I feel as though, if I'm going to take the time, I want my read to be of interest to me, great writing, great story, etc. Has to have some substance to it.

Anyone remember a great beach read you had when you were younger?

I think THORN BIRDS is the first that comes to my mind in this category.

Anyone remember a great beach read? was asked by Scootz.
and which Julia Glass are you reading?

oh, yessss, lots of them, especially mysteries:
Dick Frances
Agatha Christy
Victoria Thompson
Elizabeth Peters
And while not a mystery, the Thorn Birds was fun! I've read it twice! My husband calls it a sheep opera ... who cares.
For me, beach reading has turned into back-yard reading, to stay out of the sun, but the same relaxation and wonderful, not-heavy experience.

I just stumbled on to the author Earlene Fowler for lite reading this month: mysteries and family stories set in central CA. Fun!

Mippy,

The new Julia Glass is entitled THE WHOLE WORLD OVER.

I take it you are mainly a mystery reader? I am so selective when it comes to mysteries- love the British authors, and Ruth Rendell in particular. I ought to reread some of hers, especially the Barbara Vine ones- so deliciously dark!

I miss the enjoyment of light reading really. Get a bit impatient with it and can't seem to follow through. Maybe it's a phase.

the Western Civ text that i'm using this semester says "(the Egytians) grappled w/ 3 of the fundamental problems that humans have pondered: the nature of human relationships, the nature of the universe, and the role of divine forces in the cosmos." Do they fit w/ the themes that stories are written about, or are those ideas to broad?......jean

mabel,

Those are a bit different from the ones in that link, I think, but in the end, it's all the same idea, don't you think?

When I saw that quote by Cather, it wasn't the first time I had heard that sentiment about there only be a few stories in the world. For me, I can certainly say that relationships, and nature of the universe (and all that entails, which is a lot!) are two biggies for me. I lke anything I read to be about relationships. I guess that's a woman thing.

Scootz ~ No, not at all, I am not mainly a mystery reader. The beach reading question got me going.
For me, reading lite (ok, light) novels is like eating cake!
Love them, but would die from a diet of eating only sweets.

I love more serious books, but hesitate to delve into all that here.
Suffice to say I've been reading Roman and Greek history for a couple of years,
which prompted me to take Latin with Ginny, here in SeniorNet.
And the Don Quixote group is also a great reading experience!

Bel Canto

No, not Bel Canto, but there is a touch of the book I am thinking of in Bel Canto.

Not anywhere in the vicinity of Possession by A. S. Byatt.

Scootz, Scootz, stick with the fiction archives.

Another clue tomorrow?

Kleo

Great and enigmatic clues, Kleo, if we've mislabeled a book (I see that we need to move out A Child's Christmas in Wales, Marjorie, which we have identified as Non Fiction in the Fiction section) we will, there may be more.

I'll guess Michael Cunningham's The Hours?

Beach books!!!!! I am stacking them up as we speak. Lacking the beach I can still read and enjoy: it's the AMBIANCE!!

Am more than half way thru now The Devil Wears Prada, surely the ultimate Beach Book, it's hard to believe it was written to parody a real person, I bet you she mends her ways, it's something ELSE, but I like it. I can't decide what to read next, read a rave review of Sweet and Low, the true story of the Sweet & Low empire and family by the disinherited grandson and they say it's just spectacular. The cover is like a graphic novel, so it's quite a shock to pick up.

I've got my former list and also am listening to the Labors of Hercules by Agatha Christie on Audio CD in the car, nearly ran off the road when I heard Hercule Poirot reflect he should have studied classics, but it was "tooo late." HA! It's never too late!! Especially here on SeniorNet.

For some reason I have taken to playing GAMES! Computer games, and I bought one called Agatha Christie And Then There Were None and I was delighted when I opened the pretty colorful box, found two CD s for the game, a nice book of instructions AND the original novel, I like that touch. They all match in the cover.

The GAME of course has the same cast with one added, because you know what happened in the original, this way you don't. The graphics are to die for, the steam trains, boats, house, it's magic, I've never seen such animation, until you dock and you have to move the character.

I don't know what it IS about these games. I can't seem to get the doggone characters ANYWHERE?? I played one with Sherlock Holmes and he got sort of a "tone" after the 20th time I approached the door (because I couldn't seem to get him anywhere else) and he said, I SAID I don't want to go in here now!! hahahaa

Last night the same thing happened with my character on the island in the recreation of And Then There Were None. I am the ferryman who brought them over, we took up the luggage, there stands the butler in the rain outside the door and there I stand. I can't seem to get past him and I've now "told myself" approximately 50 times that "I don't have time to talk to him now."

I don't WANT to talk to him! I want to go inside!

I bet you Agatha Christie would throw the thing out the window, I may break down and retreat to the book! Hahahaa

I picked up Clyde Edgerton's (Walking Across Egypt) Lunch at the Piccadilly because it was on the remainder table for $4.98 at B&N, and it's a pretty yellow hardback, and they grind those returned to the publisher. I love Edgerton so I'm looking forward to it. He lives in Wilmington NC, maybe some day he might attend a discussion of one of his books. Have you all read Walking Across Egypt? It's not new but he has a deft hand with the senior citizen, which is what Lunch is about.

But that's not my idea of a Beach Book. I want fabulous folks with fabulous money doing fabulous things in fabulous locations, fabulously. And paying the price. hahaaa That's my idea of a Beach Book. Ahahaha

OR horror, I read a nice article yesterday, I am not sure whwere I read it tho, huge huge Summer Reading section, did you all see it and know what I'm talking about? It mentions recommendations by Stephen King and Wally Lamb, among many others. Stephen King likes something called…something like Ruin.... and it's supposed to be so scary you wouldn't believe it. I hope that's the name. Wally Lamb recommended the PushCart Prize Volume XX, said it was the new voices of literature and a good way to get to know them, I've never heard of it, I hope I have that right. I'm going to look it up!

I think it may have been in a recent USA Today? Did anybody see this article? Authors recommending new reads?

I like what Pedln said too way back there, too, that HERE in SeniorNet's Books we have such informed readers in so MANY genres, we almost always hear of great new reads here, so fun.

Well am excitedly waiting for Deems to get back from the DaVinci Code, the movie, and report in Bill's Books Into Movies, come on down, they're talking about Narnia and Memoirs of a Geisha, Poseidon Adventure and of course THE movie event of the year, come on by!

No, Ginny, not Michael Cunningham's The Hours, but really an excellent guess.

SeniorNet has the book in Fiction, but most other web sources I looked at classify it as nonfiction, and a lot of folks think it really is nonfiction. I'm behind SeniorNet on this classification. However, some books are really open to interpretation, what's fiction and what's not, or open to the controversy about what's real and not? Others are more straight forward.

Oh, we used to get these folks advertising books all the time, spamming online book clubs. Someone try to talk to the author and see if he's here to chat or here to spam--I bet you get no answer because he's too busy spamming the Internet to try to sell his book--tiresome authors never interest me. I vote removing book spam.

And a warning, when my bookclub failed to delete the first spamming author, we got put on some list as a site to spam in the future.

Kleo

Thank you Kleo, Brian's post is now in the Author's Corner. SeniorNet Policy prohibits advertising on its website but they make an exception for authors who can post in our Author's Corner, where people really should go look from time to time; there's some good company there, and notices of new books and voices.

When Jeff Shapiro wanted to get in touch with Barbara about his latest book, that's where he posted. Ann does a super job there.

Mippy, Oh wow latin and all....you're serious! and here I am calling you mainly a mystery reader. Imagine! LOL

Kleo- that was in the fiction archives!! LOL

Ginny- too funny!! Sherlock Holmes with a 'tude!! I love those games too but haven't played any in a while.

Walking Across Egypt is a gem. The local book group loved it. Mattie, the heroine, was simply wonderful. Four years later, Edgerton wrote a long-awaited sequel to "... Egypt" titled "Killer Diller". Both titles are misleading. The first one is not about Egypt, the country, and the second one is not a murder story. Both are gems.

Edgerton has written many more books in between those two stories, and since. He encouraged and mentored fellow North Carolinian Kaye Gibbons, author of Ellen Foster and, most recently, of a sequel (sort of) to "Ellen Foster"; can't remember the title right now.

John O'Hara, remember? From the Terrace? etc. James Michener?

i'm having trouble remembering ------ yet i know i read all the time! Unfortunately, i wasn't writing down the titles and authors at the time. I went thru a phase of reading fiction about Napoleon and Josephine, can't remember the book that got that started, but there was a movie about a woman who had a relationship w/ N and then became queen of Sweden - i think Jeanne Crane may have played the lead character and Stewart Granger may have played the guy she married who became king of Sweden and Marlon Brando was Napoleon........ringing any bells?.......no, it wasn't J. Crane, it was a blond, but very famous actress.

What other authors were in the O'Hara tradition? I did read Caine Mutiny that someone mentioned before. I think I read books after seeing a movie from it. I lived in a very small town, so i wasn't getting a lot of recommendations of great lit.....LOL.....I know I was reading mostly fiction and i'm sure it was all "beach reading".

I did read Ayn Rand at the recommendation of a conservative (true conservative) friend in college, those were great - Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. I loved her male characters, each one seemed perfect and then you'd meet the next one who had something in addition to the previous one!!!!

That was the same friend who told me to read Philip Roth!!! We're not friends anymore

...........actually i've just lost touch w/ him.......jean

Jean: I think the book you are remembering may have been "Desiree"?

Thanks, Marni.....I've sent an e-mail to some high school class mates to ask them what they remember reading when we were at the pool, or beach or just sun-bathing in the backyard, it will be fun hearing from them and what they say........jean

Kleo is it "Becoming Madame Mao" by Anchee Min ?

mabel-

Is FROM THE TERRACE good? I read APPOINTMENT IN SAMARRA just two years ago, my first O'Hara.

I looked at the other Wouk books at B&N last night but coulodn't decide if I wanted to try them or not. WINDS OF WAR, etc

I look forward to hearing what your friends have to say.

Cathie

I became so interested in the "Becoming Mao" author that I forgot to list it here. Tee hee! There's many titles that I remember from the 'olden days' as my kids used to call it. Kathleen Woodiwiss's "Shanna" and "The Rose in Winter". "A Woman of Independent Means" by Elisabeth Hailey. Do you remember all those books about women whose life is in a shambles and then they pick themselves up and start up businesses that become huge companies or chain stores? Women's lives around their families and their matriarchal position. Delderfield's series, starting with "God Is An Englishman", Kathleen Norris, Nora Roberts, Mary Stewart are just a few that I can remember. I have always liked mysteries,too. Usually of the British genre, like Ruth Rendall and her other name that escapes me right now. OH, that would be Barbara Vine. Does anyone remember "Road Rage"?

My guess today is "House of Mirth" by Edith Wharton.

I don't want to give the wrong impression. I haven't read Becoming Madame Mao. I do want to read it. I did read "Bel Canto." I did read "Bel Canto."

Mabel,

I loved "From The Terrace" and "Ten North Frederick Street." So many years I can't remember the plots now.

Is "Forever Amber" a beach book? I read that one around the same time as the John O'Hara books.

At one time I loved Danielle Steele. I think she is a very sophisticated lady. People say her writing has changed.

Years ago I don't remember books being thought of as "fluffy" or "beach" or "Chick Lit." My memory seems to remember books as fiction or non-fiction.

Ann,

I loved Kathleen Woodiweiss. The first book I read by her was "Shaana."

What about Barbara Taylor Bradford and "A Woman of Substance"? Did you read any of her books? That's was my only one. She must have a hundred titles out there.

I love Barbara Taylor Bradford. You know "Woman of Substance" is a series. I think the life of Emma Harte continues on.... I loved "Remembrance" by Barbara Taylor Bradford. There are a few more I like too. I can't think of the titles now.

Here are two books I read when I was younger that totally rocked my young world- both by Susan Howatch- CASHELMARA and PENMARRIC. I fell in love with those books.

Of course! I love her books. I read "Cashelmara" first and fell in love with her. Then, I read "Penmarric." These are fat books. I have also enjoyed "Voyager" by Diana Gabaldon. Soooooo good! I want to read the whole series. I think it's a beach book.

I read the first one in the series, Voyager, if it's not, whatever is the first one I read it.

I think Karon's books are beach books.

Jeanne Ray writes good books: "Eat Cake," "Julie and Romeo." I love her books.

I loved "The Other Boleyn Girl" by Phillipa Gregory

Remember Victoria Holt???

I read JULIE AND ROMEO. It was just ok for me. But I did like Victorai Holt when I was younger.

How about PILLARS OF THE EARTH? I often think of going back and rereading it. I wonder if it would be the same for me?

Oh, I have "Pillars of the Earth" near by bed. I really want to get the time to read it. Reading about the erecting of a cathedral must be so much fun.

Have you read "London" by Edward Rutherford? I loved the whole book. If I read it again, I would really enjoy it. Some books take a second reading, I think.

I love "Jamaica Inn" by Daphne DuMaurier

That's it! I read "Outlander" by Diana Gabaldon. It's wonderful.

I would underline titles. I don't know how to do it. Scootz, your underlining looks good, makes the title stand out.

Adriana Trigliani is good for a fluffy read. I loved "The Queen of The Big Time," and the "Big Stone Gap" series. I simply love Fannie Flagg.

I loved Susan Howatch. Years ago read Cashelmara and Penmarric and loved the tie with the English royalty. Later she wrote a series on Anglican religon but it wasnt as much fun.. But I did like the Wheel of Time series. But the all time beach book and a book that influenced a lot of young girls.. Marjory Morningstar by Herman Wouk.. Wow did that get everyone interest.

I have always heard about Marjorie Morningstar by Wouk. What exactly is it about?

I really love Jeffrey Archer too. "As The Crow Flies" really got me going. I think JA has been involved in some scandals. He certainly is a good writer.

I saw MARJORIE MORNINGSTAR there last night. Is it good? In the summer, I love to get involved in a big, long family saga type book that is light reading. Does this fit the bill?

hats- I read several of Rutherfurd's book, but not LONDON. I loved his book RUSSKA but the only issue that I have with his books is that he gets you all wrapped up and excited about a set of characters and then pow! He sets you down in another century. That used to annoy me a little bit.

Oh do look for Marjory. It is old, but so absolutely neat and soap operish.. A young girl who goes from Marjory Morgenstern to Marjory Morningstar, her hopeless love for a jerk, her wanting to be a star. It has everything that a beach read needs and absolutley no graphic sex.. And nowadays thats hard to find.

Ann, I loved Woman of Independent Means by Elizabeth Hailey. Read it more than once. I know it's fiction, but based in part on the life of one of her relatives.

Hailey's husband was a playwrite? drama critic? Not sure which. They let their daughter, when she was 15, stay out of school a year and just read what she wanted. She had to write about what she read and the outcome was The day I became an autodidact. Wish I could remember more about what's in it. What a neat opportunity to offer your kids -- to let them take a year (one small year out of a lifetime) to explore what's of interest to them.

Hats, I don't remember all the labels about "fluffy" or "beach books" either. "Best sellers," yes. My labels are "good," "great," "not so good," and "ugh," and I follow the Nancy Pearl philosophy -- if under 50, read the first 50 pages of a book before deciding you don't want to read it. If over age 50, subtract your age from 100, and read that number of pages.

My f2f mystery group is reading Rule of Four for July. I think it's written by a couple of young guys. Anybody read it?

I tried Rule of Four, but hated it.. I am reading about the Professor for our discussion and also a Beth Saulnier.. She is a generation x writing mysteries that are fun and informative at the same time.

I couldn't get into RULE OF FOUR either. It just wasn't my thing.

I guess I have a little more persistence than Nancy Pearl.

I give a book 100 pages -- if I'm not hooked by then, I'm done with it. I feel that's a very fair chance.

I may hit the used bookstore today and have another look at Marjorie MorningStar. Now you have my interest up!

Remark of the year! hahahaa in a SEA of super thoughts:

Hats, I don't remember all the labels about "fluffy" or "beach books" either. "Best sellers," yes. My labels are "good," "great," "not so good," and "ugh," and I follow the Nancy Pearl philosophy -- if under 50, read the first 50 pages of a book before deciding you don't want to read it. If over age 50, subtract your age from 100, and read that number of pages.

hahaha

Tempus fugit, huh? LOVE it, what scintillating conversation here today!

Hi Ginny,

Translate "Tempus fugit" please??? I bet it's latin.

When you think of this author's oeuvre, you're more likely to think of manly things like seeing ferocious cats (without extra paws) on the beach in continents thought of as countries, rather than this book where party boy responds, perhaps petulantly, to party girl extraordinaire (manly man-boy versus girl's girl). A bit of jealousy, perhaps?

Or maybe he had not meant to respond.

Time flies, Hats.

Kleo

Kleo, thanks for the interpretation. Your clues??? Golly, Kleo. Give us a break.

Oh, I have an idea. I have to go out. So, I can't think at the moment. At least, that's my excuse. See ya later.

Kleo is it "Becoming Madame Mao" by Anchee Min

No, no Min's book.

Kleo

Thanks, Ginny, I should not have gotten so irritated. SeniorNet has been in action long enough, and there has not really been any advertising, so of course I should have guessed SeniorNet already knew how to handle it.

Scootz, yes, yes, your guess was in the fiction archives, I was responding to your comment about narrowing it down to limit the scrolling.

Beach reading in my youth?

James Michener? Yes, a good choice. I read science fiction, but beach reads are special. They can't have a lot of depth, must move along well, and be available in cheap paperbacks.

I read Michener, Arthur C. Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Benchley (yes, I think Jaws is a great beach read), Delderfield's Swann Saga is the ultimate youth beach read, indeed, Arthur Hailey, excellent, also (I'm fairly certain I read Airport on the beach at Karkeek Park in Seattle), Wouk is excellent, War and Peace by Tolstoy is a perfect beach read (I think I read it in the winter, though, and when I was still in Seattle, not on the beach).

Michael Crichton might be the ultimate beach author.

My first beach book with teen friends, when I first started going to the beach without my family, at probably 13, was Katherine by Anya Seton. It wasn't a reread, as most beach books are, in my opinion. I don't think it has to be great literature to be rereadable, beach reads hold their own.

Ayn Rand, "I loved her male characters, each one seemed perfect and then you'd meet the next one who had something in addition to the previous one!!!!" Egads, I thought her men were just weird as all get out. Each one more appalling than the previous one!

I give a book 100 pages! 100 pages! I could read another great book on my overladen too-many-to-ever-be-read shelf in the time it took me to read 100 pages of a debatable book. I generally give a book 2 paragraphs, the first and one from the middle. There are just too many great books I'll never even encounter to spend any time reading one that I don't know if I like it.

Kleo

Now, Hats, if you'd read the book, it would leap out at you which book it is. There are really lots of clues. If you think of the author for a moment, and there are many clues to his identity, you'll get the book, too, even if you haven't read it. But I get to have a little fun with the clues!

Kleo

Kleo-

OMG- Seton!- did you ever read GREEN DARKNESS?? She wrote that too. I haven't thought of that in years!

You said :War and Peace by Tolstoy is a perfect beach read

Well maybe if I can hire some young hunk to hold it for me!

I am finally printing out the fiction list- I am not scrolling through that thing again! maybe I can find the answer.

A MOVEABLE FEAST by Hemingway??

Yes, I read Green Darkness. Is she a perfect beach read or what?

And, yes, A Moveable Feast, by Hemingway.

A "moveable feast" is a religious holiday, like Easter, Ramadan, Rosh Hashana that falls on different calendar days every year. Sometimes Ramadan falls during Christmas. When it does we usually invite Muslim friends/family to Christmas dinner to break their fast, but we don't serve a Christmas ham.

A lot of folks don't know what a moveable feast is, probably due to the lack of personal conflict. It turns out the moveable feast was not precisely a Holy Day, but rather a long holiday of partying.

Gertrude Stein's The Diary of Alice B. Toklas is also about the interwar years in Paris, the same cast of characters, because she and Hemingway hung out with the same crowd of European artists and American expatriates during those years. her book is less well known than H's, and some say his was in response to some less than flattering aspects of hers.

Many sources classify Hemingway's book as nonfiction.

In Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea, Santiago tells the boy, "When I was your age I was before the mast on a square rigged ship that ran to Africa and I have seen lions on the beaches in the evening." Just about the manliest line from all of literature in my opinion. The opposite of chick lit.

There's a big debate about whether or not, on a beach in another hemisphere (Florida), Hemingway owned polydactyl cats. So, oops, without extra toes, I meant.

So, Hemingway, the boy at the party, is he responding to his dislike of the book by Stein, the girl at the party, who wrote her book as if it where the voice of her partner, Alice B. Toklas out of jealousy? Except that A Moveable Feast was published posthumously.

Kleo

Kleo- I have never read Hemingway- but having the list printed out was great for me! Now I have it next to the computer.

Thanks for the info- interesting since I know nothing about him. I have heard the phrase Moveable feast but never knew what it meant.

I need some time to pick a title but I shall return in a bit with ONE CLUE PER DAY, I promise!

Re A Woman of Independent Means - didn't they make a TV movie or miniseries from that book? I seem to remember Sally Fields in it. And it was one I really enjoyed. I've put that on my "to look for the book" list.

I loved Cashelmara and enjoyed Penmarric also. Read them both years ago. I also like Susan Howatch's Church of England Novels. I discovered them a few years ago when Theron and I visited Salisbury Cathederal on a trip to England. I really enjoyed reading them.

I have so much trouble reading now. I have an appointment with my eyedoctor on Wednesday Afternoon. I hope that he can do something for me. At least maybe he will change my glasses so that I can see better.

Joan Grimes

I read Howatch years and years ago - and remember enjoying them a great deal. Rutherfurd's epics are wonderful, too - especially Pillars of the Earth. Another one in that vein is Sarum.

Scootz,

Congratulations! Good sleuthing.

Isn't Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett?

Oh, I have read that Pillars of the Earth (the Ken Follet one) and agree it is a good summer read.

Who's the guy who wrote the book about the longbow man? That would be good, too. Right about the same level.

Oh, Bernard Cornwell's The Archer's Tale.

We also read plays and poetry out loud on the beach and on the bus on the way to the beach.

Kleo

You're absolutely right, Bubble - sorry! Rutherfurd wrote Sarum.

Ya know, the good news is I won the Pick a Plot- the bad news is, I now have to come up with some clues.

OK here we go, from the fiction archives:

Clue #1- this book has a story within a story (I think at one point, it even had a story within a story within a story)

I come on every morning with my coffee, so I'll post a new clue each day at that time.

Kleo- thank you for mentioning Wouk. I don't think I'd be intersted in Caine Mutiny, but I did actually find WINDS OF WAR at Half Price Books today so I pciked it up for a song. I still want to find Marjorie Morningstar as well. I have three Half Price Books in my town so I can still find it yet. I hate to pay B&N prices for an old book that I can get used.

Scootz, is it The Jane Austen Book Club"? Sue

SCOOTZ, that 'story within a story within a story' makes me think of the Carlos Ruiz book, "Shadow of the Wind". (I hope I got that right.) It that by any chance the one you picked?

Babi

How many of you year after year read "Gone with the Wind" each summer - golly I must have started that odyssey when I was 16 and read it till I was in my late 30s - seldom on the Beach though - too much to do on the beach with swimming and boating and later watch and playing with the children - also it is just plain too hot for me to read with the sun glaring on a page to boot - nope the shade of the back garden or in the house with AC humming are my summer reading spots.

Frankly, my dears, I don't do anything on the beach. I can't walk on the loose sand due to arthritis in my feet, and twenty minutes in the sun is sufficient for sunburn. Even simply standing in the water's edge was impossible the last time I went to the beach. The waves washed the sand from under my feet, and down I tumbled. I had to crawl my way back up to firm footing. Most embarrassing!

Babi

babi and Springcreekfarm- both good guesses but sadly, incorrect.

what are we guessing - I missed it and what was your guess Scootz that has you in the wizards seat?

Scootz guessed Kleo's Plot: Hemingway's A Moveable Feast

Scootz has given one clue...in the header about the plot she's picked to be the current "puzzle."

jane

Thinking of books for the beach from days gone by.....makes me think of Peyton Place. Boy, was that a hot one when I was a teenager. And then they made a movie and a TV series from it.

I was so surprised when I moved to Windsor, CT to find that they filmed some of the movie Peyton Place right here in Windsor. The main house in the movie is a real house down the road from my house a couple of miles. Windsor was a big tobacco-growing town. Shade tobacco used to make cigar wrappers. It's supposed to be some of the best tobacco in the world for that. Cigars kind of died out and much of the tobacco farm land was sold for housing and our business district. But there has always been some tobacco grown here. Teenagers "worked tobacco" to make money. My son worked in tobacco fields summers for awhile. Migrant workers were brought in. And now tobacco farming is coming back because cigar smoking has become popular again.

Oh, wait a minute. I'm thinking of two hot books beginning with P. Peyton Place was the one up in New Hampshire? Parrish is the other one I'm thinking of - the one made into a movie and about CT tobacco. What a memory!

We go to the beach to surf,run, surf, beachcomb, and then surf surf and surf some more.

Have read many of the reads mentioned though in summertime it's usually late afternoon and under a shady gumtree.

Is the pick a plot 'Possession'?

Must say that I loved the Delderfield -God is an Englishman series and agree that War and Peace is a super read - beach or not.

No, sorry, gumtree, not POSSESSION.

marni- are you still in Connecticut? I went to high school and college there, taught school for 12 years before coming here.

Clue#2- tale of two siblings

Scootz,

Is it "Amsterdam" by Ian Mcewan???

Not Amsterdam- try again.

Anya Seton, Oh how I loved and wanted to be Katherine.. That brings back old old memories as does Peyton Place..along with the first Rona Jaffe.. Something dumb like "The Best of Everything"? Beach reads for me are done on the shaded porch with sunscreen on with lots of iced tea and a comfortable chair..

I started reading MARJORIE MORNINGSTAR last night- was able to find it finally at used bookstore. It is going to fit the bill just nicely. Just what I needed right now.

In looking for this yesterday I saw some other OBG's (oldies but goodies)- how about Irwin Shaw's RICH MAN, POOR MAN? Erich Segal's LOVE STORY?

I don't "do" beach any more myself. More like poolside in the yard, on the patio. Can't sit still in the sun any more- way too intense for me here in Texas.

marni, since we live in TN and, in general, in tobacco-growing country, I've surely never thought of CT as being a place where tobacco is/was grown. Interesting!

I don't sit on the beach, but we go every year (only four more weeks!!!), and lots of books travel with us. Two of our daughters sit on the beach and read - that's their REAL vacation - but use lots and lots of sunscreen, and usually in the late afternoon. Others just sit on the decks with feet propped up on the railing and read. We have family and friends from all over coming in (usually about 18 people) and everybody brings books to trade and share. That's a major part of our beach week.

I've just gotten my copy of Madeleine Albright's new book, so I'll be taking that to start on. PatWest was so great to bring me a copy of Founding Mothers when we met at the Elderhostel in April. I've really enjoyed that, and will be taking it to share with our daughters.

Mary Z,

Let us know how you like Madeleine Albright's new book. I admire her as a person.

Scootz ~ Is it:
Pomegranate Soup by Marsha Mehran

Maybe too many sisters?

Sorry, not Pomegranate Soup either. Keep trying.

Blind Assassin by Margaret Atwood???

hats:

You're the winner!! :)Excellent job! and I was just getting warmed up.

Clue#1

There are two sisters. One sister is ill.

Let me catch up and get the new plot clue in the header...

Scootz: I've lived in CT almost my entire life - taught there, too. Where did you go to school, college, and teach in CT?

I love CT!

Mary Z: I was surprised about tobacco in CT, too. I think of Virginia when I think of tobacco. But CT tobacco is grown differently. It's shade-grown tobacco - very delicate. It's all grown underneath fabric that looks like cheese cloth. It's very labor-intensive. And just for cigar WRAPPERS - the tobacco leaf that is wound around the exterior of the cigar.

It's kind of strange to ride around my town of Windsor and see, between business parks, tobacco farms with acres of huge cheese cloth tents gently waving over the tobacco plants in the breeze, protecting them from the burning rays of the sun.

I just finished listening to the audio book Small Change ~ The Secret Life of Penny Burford by J. Belinda Yandell. I doubt that I would have picked the book up if I had seen it but I really enjoyed the audio tape. It is the story of how a woman uses the change that her stingy husband leaves lying around. He doesn't find out anything about what she was doing until after she dies. It is a very short book. Maybe a good story for summer reading.

P.S. I just read the cover and the book won an audio book short story contest.

Today (Sunday) is my dgts birthday, so we always have a big cookout this week-end. Yesterday friends who we consider family had a gathering, so we've just been eating (ribs, potato salad, deviled eggs, baked beans, hot dogs, etc, etc.) and chatting and laughing and holding crying and sleeping babies, toddlers and children for three days. And you all have been talking up a storm about some great, fun books. I'm going to be greedy of message space and answer a lot of you, teehee......but maybe not all in one message.

Kleo - re: Rand men - come on, give me a break, i was 20 yrs old and they were gorgeous, smart, accomplished and kept solving ALL the problems that popped up - sooooooooo, i tho't they were great! I WAS 20! I didn't know any men like that since all the men i knew were between 18 and 25 and hadn't done a darn thing, could hardly talk about anything but sports and still tho't having a lot of beers and throwing up was a fun night! Yeeaahh, Gary Cooper-like guys sounded very good!

Hated Hemmingway. Liked M Morningstar when i read it at 20, hated it when i read it again at 50. I don't read many books a second time. Winds of War was good, Loved Ten North Frederick, thanks for reminding me Hats. I think the tv show Woman of Independent Means was Elizabeth Montgomery. Read London a few yrs ago, interesting from a history point of view wouldn't call it "beach reading."

I think of beach reading as having nothing to do w/ where you are reading - most of my BR took place lying on a towel on the grass in my back yard - but I think of BR as reading that is enjoyable, not too deep, don't have to think too much, can be a little spicy - ahhhhh yes, Peyton Place, Marni, and Rona Jaffe - had forgotton her, loved the movie Best of Everything - what a soap opera! Read Howard Fast, liked them.

Some BR books or authors I've read in the last 20 yrs: Eugenia Price writes historical fiction, mostly about Georgia; Barbara Delinsky - The Coast Road, The Vineyard about northern Calif, and others; Ruth Harris - A Self-made Woman, loved her Husbands and Lovers; loved Linda Howard's Mr Perfect, great fun read; Gail Parent's Best Laid Plans; Susan Phillips' This Heart of MIne; David Poyer's The ONly Things I Fear; Penelope Williamson's historical fiction Heart of the WEst trilogy; William Adler's The Witch of WAtergate and others; Charlotte Allen.

HEEEEYYYYY I got it all in in one message.......I'll be interested if anyone has read any of these........jean

Clue#2

One sister became a famous artist.

marni- Went to Danbury High, graduated '67; on to Western Conn., graduated in '71; taught school in Bethel right out of college. Got my Master's from WestConn also. Where are you in CT? I really miss it there in fall of the year. I've lived in St Louis also, where my son was born, then on to Texas and have been here 23 years.

Ah! I see you're in Windsor- up by Hartford, correct?

marjorie- is that book fiction or non?

mabel-oh no! You hated Marjorie M. when you reread it? Well, I'm about 60 pages in and it's fine so far. Is WINDS OF WAR better, do you think? I got both.

Loved Howard Fast, too- read many of his.Your last paragraph looks like maybe romance which I don't read at all. But, I do see Charlotte Allen there. Is she the same person as Charlotte Vale Allen? If so- I did read lots of hers. Couldn't get enough of her at one point.

How about this title- FIVE SMOOTH STONES?

Hi Scootz and Mabel,

I loved Eugenia Price's books. I felt very sad when she died. I often think of reading her books again. I have visited St. Simon's Island. The tourist guide in Christ Church said her home was very far back on the island, too far for anybody to find. I love Barbara Delinsky too. Oh, I read the first book in the Howard Fast Immigrant series. It's titled "The Immigrants." I really enjoyed it.

I have been wanting "Five Smooth Stones." I am going to buy my own copy. It's really fat. I don't want to worry about the library date for that one.

hats- I hope you're able to find FIVE SMOOTH STONES. I bought my copy used about five years ago now- but I paid through the teeth for it. I haven't yet read it. It's hardback.I go to Half Price Books every week, and I'll keep an eye out for it for you. You might also try amazon used books when you get around to getting it. I'm not even going to admit what I paid for mine, My friend thought I had lost my mind!

Scootz,

The copies are expensive now, right? I like Amazon and HalfPrice too. I had "...And Ladies of the Club" in hardback. I tried carrying it around with my bad arm and hand. I couldn't do it. So, now I have a paperback. Why is "Five Smooth Stones" so expensive? Of course, I haven't looked for one lately. I am going to look for one right this moment.

I loved and read all of Eugenia Price. She captures the flavor of the area. A bit romancy, but fun. Nice beach read. Ann Fairbarn wrote Five Smooth Stones?? I think.. Never liked Howard Fast and hated Winds of War. I am also a Hemingway hater. I think of him as the prototype macho male. I have been wracking my brain about an author I used to adore. He wrote ( I think) a trilogy about western Tennessee in the civil war. All about several generations of a family.. They were redheaded.. I know, cannot remember the books, but can remember hair color. Also Janice Holt Giles, years and years ago wrote a lot of historical novels tying them together as generations of a family. Neat books then, have no idea if they would hold up today.

hats-

I looked for you, too.

The paperback is selling USED at amazon for close to $10. I don't know why this book tends to be more expensive- it's a good question.

BTW- OT- I bought something for myself last week for reading. It's called " The Necksaver"- I knew that had to be for me! I can't hold the books up either, so I am starting to use this bookholder. I don't have it yet, but it's in the mail. I'm not going to give up reading, so I will do everything I have to do make I possible. I'll be able to read any hardback with it once it comes. I couldn't even read the Julia Glass because it's too heavy for me.

Scootz,

Thanks for looking. I haven't seen a book holder yet. Is it like a lap desk?

No, not like a lap desk- which doesn't allow you to hold the book at eye level. I have several lap desks. This is like a cook book holder- except, there is no front on it that covers the pages, so it allows you to turn pages and read hands free! There are lots of them online- I got this NeckSaver one because of the name. Figured that had to be for me.

At this site, hats there are several bookholders to see- click on where it says "reading tools" to see what I'm talking about.

Bookholders

and then, here's the one I ordered, which I liked because it folds down flat and can be taken anywhere:

NeckSaver

Wow! Scootz, thanks!

SCOOTZ: Small Change is a short story. It is fiction but the husband certainly has qualities that remind me of my ex. I haven't seen it on paper so I don't know how many pages it is but it was only one tape. Most of the books on tape I have seen are several tapes.

Just bought 2 book holders a couple of weeks ago at the Public Market. They are made by a craft lady down there. I got one for regular pocket books and one for the larger soft covers. They are pretty neat. They hold the pages open. I will try to find the slip and I am sure she has a web site and I will be back later.

Scootz, your Necksaver looks like a good thing. I usually read in my recliner, with the foot only part-way up. I put a pillow in my lap, and rest the book up on that. AND I use two bull-dog clips to hold the book open to the page I need. My left hand and thumb are what give me the most trouble, so I can't hold a paperback in my left hand, with it held open by my thumb. This works for me. We do get inventive sometime, don't we?

Mary Z,

I read in my recliner too. It is very near the window allowing the sun to come in. Your inventions are really good ones.

We do what we need to to read, Mary!

I don't know if you remember that old Bob Newhart show where he was married to Suzanne Pleshette? He had a "checkbook balancing outfit" that he would get into to do his bills, including a visor! It was hilarious. But, this is just like me when I read I have a table that goes in front of me, a high backed and solid (firm) chair, a neck pillow at the back of my neck, and now when it comes, my bookholder. My husband told me I'm like Bob Newhart. I say- whatever it takes!

That's how i can knit/crochet while reading. The ones i have aren't on their list/pictures now. It's all wood, but only the base is solid, the back has three spindles and a top cross piece that has two positions so it moves back and forth depending on how much slant you want. Then in front there are four holes across the bass and three rows front to back that hold movable pegs and therefore easily holds up papers/paperbacks/hardbacks of what ever size you have. It also folds flat for easy packing or storing. I'm suprised they aren't selling it any longer. It's light and quite adaptable, but perhaps not as sopisticated/contemporary-looking as the ones they are showing now. I use it for reading and at the computer, as well as for k/c.........jean

Have any of you read "On Beauty" by Zadie Smith? I haven't read it. I am interested in the opinion of others about it.

"Kleo - re: Rand men - come on, give me a break, i was 20 yrs old and they were gorgeous, smart, accomplished and kept solving ALL the problems that popped up - sooooooooo, i tho't they were great!"

Oh, that little detail. I read her when I was 40. My brother says no one should be allowed to read her who didn't read her when they were 20--there's no point.

Kleo

Are you guys working on the contest? Winner takes all!!

hats- I sorta feel I need to pass and give someone else a chance. I'll watch.

Oh I know what it IS!! I know! OHhhh I can't think of the title, but I can see that woman on the cover....ACCKKKKK!

I found it. This is the lady at the Public Market in Seattle

Kali's Garden Easy Reader Handcrafted book covers.

http://www.KalisGarden.net

they are inexpensive and you have your choice of patterns for the covers and they have a cool book mark in the center.

What a neat gift those would be! But with my luck, I would be leaving it in a hotel room as I did, in Chicago, with my fantastic Itty Bitty Book Lite. hahaha! I love their uses, such as, you can use it when eating. I simply look for the heaviest piece of dishware(depending on the book, you can use the sugar bowl, the salt shaker, a candle in a glass holder, hey, any port in a storm) on the table and place it on the top of both open pages. Works for me!

ANN, my daughter bought me a neat leather strap with weights in each end. Works like a charm. The salt cellars had a tendency to turn over.

I remember "Five Smooth Stones". It was an engrossing book, but it left me feeling sad and depressed. I was young enough then to be angry that it didn't end more happily. It takes us awhile to leave behind the old 'happily ever after' syndrome, doesn't it?

Babi

Babi,

You are so right.

I know the answer to the contest but I led the discussion of the book. So I won't answer it. That would not be fair.

Joan Grimes

Clue#3

Degas is a visitor at this Nineteenth century Paris home.

Oh yes, you definitely need to reed Ayn Rand in your 20's. She seems to make such sense, then later if you reread, you are amazed at your idiocy. There are several authors who need to be read when young and she is a good example.

Hats, Until the last one, your clues reminded me of the film "Hilary and Jackie," about conductor Daniel Barenboim's wife and her sister. Two sisters, one ill (MS) and one a famous artist (musical -- cellist). But, alas, no book about that was discussed on SeniorNet.

Pedln,

I'm sorry. Joan Grimes gave a big hint too. It's a free clue.

Has anyone read Intuition by Allegra Goodman. It seemed to call me on the shelf at the library. I don't usually read these types of stories. It's about a publicity seeking ocologist. I will begin it today.

thanks, they'll be great gifts for my book club. I crocheted bookmarks for them all last year. What a creative idea, easy to turn the pages too, that's often a problem w/ book holders. AND it supports a woman entrepreneur - like that.......jean

to ask you all about.

Firstly, this one, called THE MEMORY KEEPER'S DAUGHTER. has anyone read it?

MEMORY KEEPER'S DAUGHTER

and then one I have thought about reading for a while called THE THREE MRS. KIMBLES(I think that's the name anyhow.) (I just looked and that isn't the name of it but there are three ladies dresses hanging up on the cover. It's about three women, all of whom married the same man.)

ALF- I haven't read that Goodman book. Is it she who wrote KAATERSKILL FALLS? If so, I tried that one but couldn't get into it.

Ann and Mable I am glad you liked the book covers. They have a ribbon in them with a cool charm or decoration of the bottom of the ribbon, makes them special. Also the choice of material for the covers is endless.

Would that be "Lydia Cassat Reading the Morning Paper" by Hariett Chessman?

I am happy for you. That's it. Thanks for playing at the contest.

I knew that! I just could not think of the name of it, Congratulations, Adoannie and Hats, good job!

Now it's your turn, Annie, pick a plot and pose a question a day for somebody else! Well done!

I have another rose from David Austin too, for a literary rose challenge. (I just got his catalogue and it's to die for) and I actually have this rose and never knew the name meant anything, but it's Tamora.

Does that ring any bells with anybody, literature wise? It's also apricot in color, very pretty, I can't wait for it to bloom.

I'm reading (when I can tear myself away from reading the comic strip cover, I am really taken by the story of the book ON the cover, I need to see who did it and if he himself has written a book). The book is called Sweet and Low, and it's about the Eisenstadt (sp) family and the Cohen family and it's…fascinating. It's also sort of a social history of Brooklyn and in itself is fascinating, it's non fiction about the family that invented the sweetener Sweet and Low. There are photographs on almost every page. It begins with an Obituary of Ben Eisenstadt and how he kept trying and kept trying and finally succeeded, big time and what that success did to the family.

It's quite interesting. I used to know an Eisenstadt, relatives of the famous photographer, if you remember him, and they were likewise quite interesting. I recall they had a real Merry Go Round Horse, one of the German Carved ones, I forget the famous carver's name, right in the middle of the living room. I loved that. Remember those old carousels? I can almost but not quite remember the name of the famous horses we used to ride.

For some reason reading this book reminds me of my childhood in Philadelphia, I have no idea why. It's not particularly pleasant, nor are the people pleasant, but they are real. . It's… something else.

Of course I am reading The Professor's House and enjoying that discussion tremendously, it's a wonderful group adding new people every day and welcome to them ALL! I really love it and the comments in it: very smart and very ....it's a good discussion.

Our next one up is Frank McCourt's Teacher Man and I am expecting this one to be a riot of memory, theories, philosophy and all sorts of great things, we've all had teachers, we've had the good, the bad and the ugly. Some of us have been teachers, some of us have been parents, I know we ALL have opinions!

I can't wait for it! Starting in July, I guess we better get up a Proposed, huh?

If you live anywhere near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, you are cordially invited to join our SeniorNet Classics Project volunteers, students and Instructors on Friday June 23 at Houston Hall on the University of Pennsylvania campus at 10 am, at the 59th Annual American Classical League Conference (called "The Institute"). The American Classical League is the National Association of all Latin and Greek teachers at every level. This international Conference is always exciting and filled with memorable moments.

We will get together, have lunch, view our own exhibit in the Teaching Materials and Book Display, (a fabulous room full of refreshments, textbooks and new publications, free Classics stuff and innovations, and exhibits besides our SeniorNet Classics Project) and enjoy the afternoon presentations!

Here are a few of the other exhibits (besides ours) in the Teaching Materials and Book Display room:

12 Black Classicists: A Photographic Installation by Michelle Ronnick

Monstra Mihi Pecuniam: An Exhibit of Ancient Greek and Roman Coins used by Schools to Promote Classics (Ancient Coins for Education, Inc.)

Scavenger Hunt for Latin Inscriptions on the University of Pennsylvania campus and environs

Our own exhibit will feature our own SeniorNet Online Latin and Greek students and our own SeniorNet Online Programs of Instruction. The Student Registration for one day is $25, and a bargain! If you are in the area, do please plan to come by and let's get together, have lunch, and then enjoy the tremendous programs of that day and the bright lights of the Classical World who will present them: some very big names and the latest information! It's very exciting!

This year the "Senior Student" is one of the main Conference themes. We are proud to be able to represent SeniorNet and the many dedicated Senior Latin and Greek students of SeniorNet (which are a part of our Books & Culture effort) in Philadelphia. You all are welcome to come, whether or not you are a student, there is something for everybody who loves the Classics during the weekend.

GINNY: "This year the "Senior Student" is one of the main Conference themes". DID YOU DID THAT? DID ALL OF US DID THAT!!

Don't I remember correctly, last year when you all submitted your paper, the first reaction was "Thanks, but no thanks. Whoever it was didn't have a clue! You gave it anyway to applause!! Now, we are THE HOT TREND!

hhahaha I think maybe so, Joan.

I think we/ our students/ our Project may have actually helped do that. haahaa

No actually (this is not the paper submission you're thinking of) the first reaction was tremendously bracing: (just about overwhelming actually): " OPTIME! Bring it on," BOY were we chuffed and it just got better and better. They have been VERY good to us. (We do seem to be the only ones in the nation doing this?) It really WAS/and IS wonderful.

We've got the Report of our Presentation last year in Albuquerque NM written up and it needs a tweak or so here and there and we'll bring it out so everybody can see it: it was a fantastic experience.

We're a very good thing, here on SeniorNet. Thank you for noticing.

AND for being such an integral part of what made it a success!

There was something on the news last night about how the boomer generation is changing what it means to retire. We're being more active in many ways than previous generations - we're thinking younger, or so it said on the news.

I thought to myself, as I watched the boomers exercising in a class, Hah! You have nothing on us seniors in the Latin classes on SeniorNet! Hah! We SeniorNetters are really something to talk about!

Some of these Boomers are acting so young they should be put in diapers.

Robby

Oh Robby, that's funny.

Well maybe advertisers will finally get the picture that once we are over 70 we are not all dependent on motorized chairs and nursing homes while requiring kid glove care because of our so called addled brains.

Yes, we rock! And one of the great empowering things about the Online on SeniorNet IS that it simply does not matter what your physical condition, or your age, or your appearance, you can participate, and you can be part of, not only the world, but you can learn and make a difference, without leaving home, right here, online.

We're not all blessed with perfect health but thru SeniorNet Online we all CAN not only learn and offer opportunities for learning but we CAN participate, change, and make a difference in the real world. How powerful is THAT?

I am so comfortable w/ myself now. Self-esteem is better than ever. The experiences i have under my belt have taught me so much about me and about other people that my world makes more sense than it ever did. That means less stress. Life at this stage is doing more things i WANT to do not so much what i HAVE to do - except those annoying appts for body/health maintenance

Much of life is FUN, including my looking forward to chatting w/ everybody on SN everyday.....jean

Lady Chatterly's Lover!!! How could we forget that????.....jean

jean-

I couldn't agree more.

Somehow my subscription to this site lapsed or something, so I've been missing lots of posts. If this is an old idea, sorry for bringing it up again. I would like to join a group who reads one author's books and discusses them altogether. For instance, Joahha Trollope. I've read two, Rector's Wife and Village Affair, and there interesting parallels in the themes of these books. She has written 6 contenporary novels, I believe, and this would be a not too unwieldy group to discuss. Another author I've become interested in is Willa Cather. The Professor's House is a very lively discussion and several of us have mentioned that we are going to read other books by her, My Antonia, is the one I have waiting for me. It seems to me that discussing ONE of an author's works is sort of flat, there is nothing to compare it to, ommissions and commissions stand in isolation, the social context is barely glimpsed,etc. Examining several works together allows one to dig deeply into the author's craft, milieu, vision, etc. I'll read them anyway, but the discussion (TPH) has been so much fun I'd like to do it again.

Mrs. Sherlock--we discussed My Antonia in Great Books a couple of years ago. When you read it, you can check the archives here.

Way back in the dark ages?? I am having just the problems I knew I would have. Can't think of clues for the books that I am considering. Back later!

I was just roaming around on the internet looking up family members to see what's out there and I found a cool place.

Background: My husband's great-grandfather, Peter Newell, was an artist. His 3 grandchildren had inherited his artwork. One of the 3, my husband's uncle, unbeknownst to his 2 sisters, donated most of Peter Newell's artwork to Yale University. Imagine! I found out the Newell art and family photos and letters are at the Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library at Yale. Great for Yale and tragic for the family!

The library has some really fabulous stuff! For example, they have a Gutenberg Bible, the first Western book printed from movable type, and - for you folks who participated in our Audubon discussion last year - Audubon's Birds of America - elephant folio.

It's not a lending library, but people can see permanent collections and exhibits at the library.

Beinecke has a site on the web:

http://www.library.yale.edu/beinecke/walktext.htm

Doesn't that sound like a neat place to visit!!! I'm going!!!

A mystery surrounded by an international event.

Has anybody read Rage? It's a Kellerman book; my first and my last.

Alf,

The title makes me frightened.

I have begun looking at "Books on Books." The other day I received one in the mail titled "The Most Wonderful Books" by Michael Dorris and Emilie Buchwald. It is really interesting and fun. Here is another book about books.

I think Ginny or JoanP mentioned "Thirteen Ways of Looking at the Novel" by Jane Smiley. Maybe their words hung in my mind.

1001 books

That one would be fun to glance through, hats. But ruh roh! do I see James Joyce mentioned in there again? No ULYSSES for me.

No way!! I don't go near James Joyce. Scootz, I have read the Kimble women. I liked it. The man is a dirty dog but...

Did you like Mrs. Kimble? Is it worth reading?

Scootz and Hats- I would be happy getting thru the mass of books I've piled on my bedside in the past month. Imagine -- 1001 selections?

Alf I can't imagine it. You should see my bedroom, books on top of books. It's a sight. It is my lifetime goal to get all of my books in bookshelves.

Why this aversion to James Joyce? PORTRAIT OF THE ARTIST AS A YOUNG MAN is one of the best books that I have ever read. I loved the way Joyce writes in that book.

I am about over my jet lag now. So hope to be posting more. I am having catarct surgery on June 15. I am really looking forward to being able to read more after all this is done. I will have only one eye done on the 15th and then three or four weeks later I will have the other one done. My right eye is the worst. So that will be the first surgery.

I hope that many of you will join me in the discussion of the Mystery!: Miss Marple, Series II on PBS on Sunday night June 4. I am looking forward to seeing this presentation and discussing it.

Joan Grimes

Joan G---Good to see you. I had cataract surgery last summer and was so pleased with it that I couldn't stop crowing about it for a while. You will be very happy with it, I predict.

Thanks Deems. I really hope that the results will be as good for me as they were for Theron, my mother, and my first husband. They all had such successful experiences with it.

Joan Grimes

ANN, may I take a stab at the new puzzle?

is it The Devil in the White City ?

Anyone have a favorite trash novel that was a guilty pleasure in your past?

One that comes to mind immediately for me is Jacqueline Susann's VALLEY OF THE DOLLS? Remember what a stir that created?

Scootz,

I didn't read the book. I remember the movie. Didn't Patty Duke play in that movie?

I'm sure you'll be pleased with the results from your cataract surgery, Joan. John and I found that the time between surgeries was the most frustrating. John still had to wear glasses for the unoperated eye, but needed none on the "fixed" eye. So he took the lens out on that side. It worked great for him until he got the second one done. And now he doesn't wear glasses at all any more - for the first time since he was 18.

Ann ~ Is your book: Corelli's Mandolin by Louis de Bernieres

I am looking for readers opinions about authors blogging and the growing social input and collaboration that the web allows. There are a few initial questions in the blog post but any input would be great.

Please pass this on to anyone that you think might be interested.

- thanks for your time.

http://poetbloggs.wordpress.com/2006/06/01/readers-writers-with-blogs/

Does anyone have a favorite author who blogs? I think Michael Crichton might, but I haven't read it.

Yes, I read Valley of the Dolls, and Peyton Place and all sorts of other great novels, that may never be on the best 100 lists, but will always be read.

Yes, Patty Duke played Neely O'Hara in the movie, Sharon Tate, who was later horribly murdered was also in the movie. The movie is quite a period piece to interesting times.

Kleo

JOAN, if the local PBS is showing Miss Marple this Sunday, I'll certainly be watching it and will join your discussion. XX (fingers crossed)

Babi

Me too! It looks like Sunday night here, too, can't wait. I look forward to it, very much.

Look at this sweet face, can you see it?

This is a new book coming out in October called From Baghdad, With Love by Jay Kopelman and Melinda Roth.

This is mentioned today in USA Today and says:

Lt Col Jay Kopelman found a 5 week old flea bitten mutt just after the battle for Fallujah in 2004. With the help of fellow Marines, journalists, Iraqis and Iams pet food company, Lava was smuggled out of Iraq and into the USA.

LOOK at that sweet face! That's one I have GOT to have!

Also on Sunday the Discovery Channel will take viewers into a first: the first discovery of a royal tomb I think since Carter, they have found a small gold plated mummy, and they say it's like a You Are There, you can vicariously understand what happens on a dig, fascinating!!

Poor Sharon Tate. What a horrible story. I read Helter Skelter when it came out some years later - about Charles Manson and his cult "family" of murderers. Gruesome but fascinating.

Then her husband turns out to be a pedophile.

Your are way too fast for me. Here I thought I had found one that I wouldn't give away and you got it. Congratulations! Its your turn now!

This has been an exciting week for me. I bought a new salsa Red Toyota Camry. If you would like to see the car just click on new Car. I love the car!

Today I received my copy of The Poe Shadow. I had ordered the large print edition and the cd edition. Both came today. I probably could have saved my money and ordered the regular edition since I will have cataract surgery on June 15. But I can hardly wait to read the book. I have already started it.

Joan Grimes

I hope you enjoy a quick recovery after your surgery.

I love the color. Have bunches of fun riding it.

I like the title and plot of this book. I am going to order it. My library does not have it yet. So many children suffer in this world for no reason at all.

Blackberry Corner

Joan:

Congratulations from someone who owns a red Toyota Camry. I bought mine in 1998 and you will be never sorry you got it. I am faithful about taking it in for dealer maintenance every 7500 miles and it runs as smoothly as it did eight years ago and looks just as beautiful.

Robby

We have a 2004 Chrysler Sebring 2004. It's silver. My husband wanted red. I didn't have the nerve to go for it. Now I regret it. That red is awfully pretty.

Hats - Blackberry Corner seems a wonderful read. I did not know that had passed such a law. It should serve as an exemple to the whole world.

Bubble,

I didn't know about the law either. It certainly is needed.

WSJ has a book section on Saturday. This morning's edition listed these five titles as the five best (mysteries)as judged by P.D. James :

TRAGEDY AT LAW..... Cyril Hare (1943)

THE FRANCHISE AFFAIR ...Jospehine Tey (1949)

THE MOVING TOYSHOP.....Edmund Crispin (1946)

MURDER MUST ADVERTISE.....Dorothy L. Sayers (1933)

DISSOLUTION....C.J. Sansom (2003)

I've heard of the second and the fourth books here, haven't read either. I guess she doesn't think the current writing is so very good.

Hats, Blackberry Corner looks like a book I'd like to read to. Those women really put themselves out on a limb. Good for them.

Scootz, thanks for the WSJ alert. I get so tied up in NYT I forget about it, but with Firefox's tabbed browsing it's so easy to switch from one newspaper to another. I'm going there now. And If P.D. James says it's good, it oughta be good.

We've talked a lot about glass artist Dale Chihuly on this site. This article from the NYT is about the business side of glass art.

Glass Artists Face Off in Court

Joan, gorgeous beautiful red car. You will have such fun driving it.

Joan, Love the color! I have Toyota Solara and I love it. Change the oil every 3000 miles and it will run forever.

Scootz ~ yes, I also saw that list of favorites of James, and popped right into Amazon.
Not all the old books are available, new, but I did find 2 of them to put in my cart.
What fun to read classic mysteries.

I got a new Altima last fall, and would've gotten red if they'd had one on the lot. As it is, I'm in an anonymous silver car (but I love it). Joan, I know you'll love your red one.

pedln, we loved the article about Chihuly. Thanks for posting the link.

Mippy, pedln,

Yes, those are some oldies, there. Wonder if the library would carry them?

The WSJ books area is small, not much too it, but always fun to check.

Have either of you read James' new one, THE LIGHTHOUSE, is it?

ANN, the clue jumped right out at me. Sorry, I should have waited.

First clue of a new pick (from our fiction archives)

People are gullible ...

Scootz, I did read The Lighthouse earlier this year. I always enjoy her books, as I did this one. The setting is all on a privately owned island. As for comparison with her other books, I haven't read enough of them to say. Am certainly not up to date on Adam D's love life.

Thanks for sharing the article about Dale Chihuly. His work is gorgeous. Colin Powell is one of his customers too. I don't blame Mr. Chihuly for going to court to protect his work. It's just sad that he needs to take time and money to go to court to protect what belongs to him.

Scootz, I have never read P.D. James. The Lighthouse did catch my attention. I would like to try that one.

I just bought a Camry in April, mine is sort of a sparkling gold. I love it, it drives so easily and is so solid and so comfortable. That's the most important thing for me - comfort and reliability. I had a Maxima for 13 yrs, it was wonderful, but the new ones just didn't grab me, didn't like that "egg" look, The Camry has a lot more "dignity." Enjoy it Joan, isn't it fun to have a new car?.....jean

Dignity, that's it! I knew somehow that my car reflected my own personality.
Of course, "red" as well as "gold" may indicate a non-dignified soul trying to break out.

Robby

Joan--enjoy your Camry. The one we had was a 1987 model finally sold in 05, reluctantly, by our daughter. It was a great car.

I have just retired my Toyota Hatch at the grand old age of 24 yrs. I have decided with gas at over $5 a gallon I can no longer afford to run it. I can vouch for both Toyota and Honda Accord. My Honda Accord lasted me 12 yrs with no repairs except the usual brake shoes every now and again.

Carolyn

Hats - P.D.James is real good.

I wouldn't want to miss even one of her books. At the library I don't manage to keep her books on the shelf: as soon as they are returned, they are borrowed out again. The same with Mary Higging -Clark. They are very popular, even in translation. Bubble

Bubble,

Thank you. I will definitely try one of P.D. James. All of this time I thought of P.D. James as a male.

I think she is called Patricia D. James

Oh, more new information. Thanks!

Oh, I didn't care for her new series, The Lighthouse. Her characters in her other books are better developed, in my opinion.

Kleo

Kleo,

Which P.D. James would you recommend?

I really enjoy PD James. I thought her last book was very good. She is an excellent writer.

As for the list of mystery novels I love Edmund Crispin, anything he wrote. "The Moveable Toyshop" was very good. He was so clever and so funny. He did not write many books. I have read all of them.

Join us in the "PBS Mystery!: Miss Marple, Series II The program is airing tonight in some areas. Check your local PBS schedule to see when it is airing in your area. Even if it is not airing tonight you can come on in to the discussion and talk with us as we discuss Christy and why she is so popular. Or is she?. We would love to hear what you have to say.

Joan Grimes

JOAN, the nicest car I ever owned was a Toyota Camry. Unfortunately, I hadn't finished paying for it when I lost the job I had expected to stay with forever. Tight times followed, and I wound up selling the Camry in order to meet my taxes. SIGH Pity.

Babi

"Dignity, that's it! I knew somehow that my car reflected my own personality.

Of course, "red" as well as "gold" may indicate a non-dignified soul trying to break out.

Robby"

There's no doubt in my case, there's definitely a "non-dignified soul" within!! Thank goodness!

Since I'm a Libra, I love that dignified exterior also - it keeps things balanced, (TIC)

......makes us interesting people, don't you think?

...... jean

Of course I think so! I'm a Libra too.

Robby

Oh, I got PD James mixed up with another author, and I have not read The Lighthouse yet. I would recommend any of her earlier Adam Dalgliesh novels, though, as a starter, maybe The Skull Beneath the Skin, Shroud for a Nightingale or Unnatural Causes. I didn't care for the first one as much as the rest and didn't read her books in order, and it didn't matter, so if Lighthouse is handy, it should do.

Kleo

Is Josephine Tey a good author? I have two of her books.

Josephine Tey is marvelous! Very good reading! Some of her older books, I've noticed, are not available new;
if you have any luck with used books, do try them.

My favorite is: Daughter of Time
Here is some description, partially lifted from a review on Amazon:
[The book] focuses on the legend of Richard III, the evil hunchback of British history accused of murdering his young nephews. [The] Inspector becomes fascinated by a portrait of King Richard [while he is bored and recovering from an injury.] A student of human faces, he cannot believe that the man in the picture would kill his own nephews; [he] delves into English history to discover just what kind of man Richard Plantagenet was and who really killed the little princes.

I agree with Mippy.

Josephine Tey is a marvelous writer. I also think "Daughter of Time" is my favorite of her books.

Joan Grimes

Mabel and Robby, Ha! some people. My favorite car was a Beetle, but Canadian winters killed it after only 14 years. Now comfort is more desirable than style. That reflects my personality too.

Ginny, the Bash is going great guns, people are not going to do what they usually do that's for sure, they will spread out in all directions trying to take in as many things as they can in the few short days they will be in Montreal. Oh! I am so glad it is in the summer though and July is our best month here even if last year us poor Montrealers suffered with a high of 80 F. that we are used to have.

Joan Grimes and Mippy,

If I don't use the library, I do buy used books. I have "The Daughter of Time" and "Man in the Queue." I am glad to know she is a good author.

Hats--I recommend "Daughter of Time" too. It is a very good book and I think you will enjoy it.

That was fun. So many of us finding we liked the same book in less than an hour!

Mippy--Fun and good fortune. Different opinions are welcome here, as you know, but this really is a good book. I haven't heard of the other one Hats mentioned (and thus we can conclude haven't read it).

There's something to be said for an unerring sense of self promotion.

Right next to Daughter of Time has to be Brat Farrar. BBC did a great production of this several years ago. Every time I read it I am still entranced. BTW, Daughter converted me to a Ricardian ( a believer in the cause of Richard III)! Elizabeth Peters wrote The Murders of Richard III, a lighthearted mystery that takes place at a meeting of Ricardians. (This is not her Amanda Peabody personna.)

I'm so excited to hear what you've been saying about "Daughter of Time." I bought it used last year at a library sale and it's been sitting on my bookcase. I'm going to have to nab it.

Elouise: I've been driving around in my old '73 beetle convertible this spring to save gas money. I've had it in my garage for many years - thought it would be fun one day. It is! Except it's a clunker. I'm definitely used to more luxury in a car. I think I'm going to have to sell it, but I have mixed emotions. It's so much fun driving in a wee car with the top down. But I think I'd like a convertible top that is automatic - maybe a mini-cooper convertible one day.

I would love to have a "wee car."

Mrs. Sherlock ~ I also enjoyed the Elizabeth Peters' Murders of Richard III, which is indeed, as you
said a rather lighthearted novel.
There are so many terrific books, both fiction and non-fiction, set in Tudor and Elizabethan times
that I won't attempt to list them.
Alison Weir is one of many outstanding authors who has written about that period, among her many books.

Oh, I love Elizabeth Peters. I haven't read Richard III one. I like Amelia Peabody and her husband.

The good, the bad, the ugly: Teacher Man!

Whooo boy, we're going to have fun with our newest book discussion beginning July 1, already with a quorum so it's a definite go, bring your tight slacks you have outgrown to our own Teacher's Conference and sign in if you are interested in reading Frank McCourt's book with us and remembering your own experience with or as a teacher: the good, the bad, the ugly.

Do we have more good or bad experiences with teachers in our past, let's find out! Join us and hold Onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

The new Miss Marple series debuted last night and we're talking about it down in Joan Grimes' PBS Program Clubs Miss Marple II Come tell us what you think?

If you get the NY Times, you saw a full page ad yesterday for Matthew Pearl's new book and no less an authority than Dan Brown saying " Matthew Pearl is the new shining sort of literary fiction," and Caleb Carr (the Alienist) saying that the book "confirms Pearl's position at the very forefront of contemporary novelists."

High praise indeed, and he'll be HERE for a return visit in Pearson's The Poe Shadow, coming up this fall: only in SeniorNet's Books & Lit!

Don't miss that one!

Meanwhile we have a Survey about to go out that asks you what you think is the best thing about discussing a book online, your favorite book discussion in the last 10 years, and if there was a book you hated, among other things. Which book do you think made for the best discussion in the last 10 years? We'll use this information to tell others about our book discussions and clubs here, so we hope you all will fill it in.

I have not a CLUE on the new Pick a Plot!!! We need another clue!

Eloise, I know anything you are involved with will be super and sometimes I think it's the best way for people to do their own thing at these big gatherings, and come together when they can. We're people of such varied interests. I really would like to come at least for one day and night, I really really really want to see the fireworks!!!!!!!!!!!!! Really. Hahahaa I have the big American Classical League Conference the end of June and we're blessed in that we have some of our own SeniorNet Classics Students attending so I'm trying to get my part of that off the ground but maybe I can come to Montreal where I have never been a day or so, not posting to that, just saying I'd like to be there, you were such a bright light in our Books at the Beach last year. I loved that. We must plan a new one.

We'll do our Books thing in 2006 at the SN National Conference in October. It's in DC where we're familiar with the hotels, etc., and so that can be our get together this year, and then next year we want to do something literary as well as like the Books at the Beach tone wise: such fun.

The thing I liked best about that one was how everybody had to pitch in and make it work, loved it.

Anyway, we'll do a Books Gathering (maybe Books on a Boat) in 2007 and enjoy every minute of it.

And we have some other exciting ideas too and want to hear YOURS as well.

Meanwhile The Devil Wears Prada is coming out as a movie with Meryl Streep as the Miranda character (I can't imagine her as Miranda) and that author has a new one out called Everyone Worth Knowing, which I bought Friday, it looks scrumptious.

Yesterday's NY Times also had a huge ad for summer reading featuring what looks like the ultimate beach book: showing a model type on the sane called "One Dangerous Lady" by Jane Stanton Hitchcock; "Full of haute crimes and glamorous social climbers that will keep you turning the pages," and Linda Fairstein said that. THAT's my idea of a beach book?!

But on the same page they recommend also The Last Days of Dead Celebrities, which looks absolutely gormless. I don't want to read about how Milton Berle died. I liked Milton Berle and don't want to read anything about his last days that might be disrespectful to him: he deserves, and so do they all, a respectful end.

But I just read with big wide eyes that King George V was actually euthanized and for absolutely no good reason. None. I did not know that and found that startling and apparently it's perfectly true. He was the father of The Duke of Windsor and Queen Elizabeth's father, Albert.

This information is in Kenneth Rose's hard to get George V.

It's amazing what you can learn from books! What one thing have you learned so far this summer from a book that you did not know?

What are you reading now? I'm still reading Sideways, it's probably one of the strangest books I ever read: it's an anomaly. Come on down if you've seen the Poseidon newest movie or the DaVinci Code to Books Into Movies and chat about them, too?

What'cha reading right this minute?

I might know the answer to the new contest. I am afraid my answer is wrong. Plus, someone else needs a chance. Scootz, do you know? Traude, please give another clue. Ginny is right. We need one more clue to seal it.

talking about royalty, I have a book titled "Lilibet : An Intimate Portrait of Elizabeth II" by Carolly Erickson. It doesn't seem like one of those gossipy books. Carolly Erickson has a Ph.D. in medieval history. Have you or the others ever heard Queen Elizabeth called "Lilibet?" I like the name. I guess only the family can use that name when talking to the queen.

Hats: Thanks for that recommendation. I want to look for that book. I believe I've read elsewhere in other books about the royals that that Lilibet is a nickname from her childhood and used by family for her.

jane

Jane,

Thank you for the information. I had never heard that nickname. This author, Carolly Erickson, writes interesting biographies. I guess her name should go over in nonfiction.

What'cha reading right this minute?

I have a trifecta going at the moment-

SATURDAY by Ian McEwan, THE ALCHEMIST by Paulo Coelho, and THE PHYSICIAN by Noah Gordon. Also rereading (skimming, really) THE WAY WE LIVE NOW for an online discussion. Whew!

Don't know the pick a plot, hats. Haven't even looked at it yet. Let me get out my list and see what I can see.

Ginny, Am I reading too much into it- did you imply that the author is taking part in the Poe group?

Pick a Plot guess- Da Vinci Code

Hats,

I definitely remember that Lilibet was a nickname that the her family used for Queen Elizabeth when she was a child. I remember hearing that she was called that . I would love to read that book. Maybe I can read it after I get my eyes taken care of. I really hope that I can.

Joan Grimes

Joan Grimes,

I am hoping and praying you will experience a very quick recovery.

... and for the mesmerizing power of a silver tongue.

Traude,

Did you see my guess of Da Vinci Code? I'd like to know at least if it's yes or no before I go through the list again. Thanks.

Is it "All is Vanity" by Christina Schwarz? That's the only answer I can think of at the moment. I bet the answer given by Scootz is correct.

This ---

"I once gave a new college graduate what I thought was a great gift: a month's stay at an inn on Cape Cod and a laundry basket stocked with beach towels, flip-flops, suntan lotion, sunglasses and mystery novels. The kid came back tanned and fit, but exhausted from cycling up and down the Cape in search of livelier scenes than the stodgy inn where I had stuck him. The books were returned unopened."

---- came from this

Murder for Relaxation

Oh foolish student, just wait. Oh, to die for. Wouldn't we all love it. Maybe next Mother's Day of Father's Day. Lots of short blurbs here about who-done-its.

"BRAT FERRAR" was a favorite of mine, but I hadn't heard of "Daughter of Time". How did I miss that one? I'd love to read it; hope I can find it.

Robby and Jean, so nice to know I'm in such distinguished company. ...I'm another Libra.

Babi

I like both "Brat Ferrar" and "Daughter of Time". Too bad that Tey passed away and diddn't have time to write more.

Those of you who like mysteries,don't miss our Mystery Discussion.

Survey Time!!

Please come help us out...

click HERE for a quick survey

Thanks!

my best friend is having a grand time tooling around in her NEW VW beetle convertible. It's robin's egg blue and she's a "strawberry blonde" so they look perfect together.....jean

Lilibet the pet name for Queen Elizabeth came about when her little sister could not say Elizabeth and said Lilibet instead. The name stuck throughout Q.E,s childhood.

Is the book Elmer Gantry by Sinclair Lewis? Also was a movie with Burt Lancaster.

Judy

Hi Carolyn,

I didn't know that either. I better read the book. I have been missing you around. Are you well?

Hi Judy.

Hats I seem to be having a flare up of my autoimmune problems so I am very fatigued, having low grade fevers, increased joint pain etc. Concentration not good so really have only been participating in social conversations here on SN. Listening to audio books rather than reading print. The cold weather is not helping. I am much better in autumn and spring. Some places in Rural Auckland were minus 3C this morning and we were 3C which is around 28F. Indoors I could only get the temp to 56F. I don't have central heating and if I did there is no way I could run it. Electricity is very expensive here. I go to bed in a polar fleece sleep suit and a hat with hot water bottles and a big duvet and blanket. Thank goodness our cold weather only lasts about 8 weeks at the most here in Auckland. We had a frost last night but it did not hit the ground it was on the cars and roofs of the houses.

The sun is up and the house will warm up to about 70F in an hour or two. The sun comes in the living area and two of the bedrooms all day from about 9am to 5pm. That keeps the house warm without heating during the day.

I do have a large print book I am reading entitled "the cat who sang for the Birds" Its about a rather eccentric wealthy older man who owns two extraordinary siamese cats one of which he says has psychic powers. The story is a who dunnit and very light entertainment. I love animals so this book is enjoyable for me. The author is Lilian Jackson Braun.

carolyn

Hi Carolyn,

It's good to hear your voice.

I am sorry about your health. Boy, it's cold there. We are burning up in Tennessee. You have a good book to keep you company. I love "The Cat Who" series. I would love to finish that whole series. Well, take it easy, go slow and improve quickly.

Ginny, I am so excited that you MIGHT be coming to Montreal even if it's just for the Internal Fireworks display we have every Saturday Night starting at 10 pm in Jean Drapeau Park. It is quite a show. Some people go on a port cruise just to see the Fireworks display from the St. Lawrence river. I only saw them once about 10 years ago. If you decide to come, email me and I will give you some details about transportation to the site. Many bookies will be at the Montreal Bash and I am planning a get together, we will take photos.

After two doctors' appointments this is my first chance to come back on line. Sorry for not responding to the guesses earlier.
JUDY Shernock had the right answer: it is Elmer Gantry, about the brazen ex-football player who becomes a successful evangelist -- a book that shocked both the faithful and the unfaithful.
Thank you.

Hi- I won! Oh Joy! Now I will start a book that I hope all you lovers of Lit. will guess one, two, three.

1) A Mans Mother dies and he attends her funeral.

Will the Host(ess) of the site put the clue in place?

Judy

Could it be my book club's current selection, The Stranger by Albert Camus? One of the most famous opening lines of literature, surely.

Kleo

KLEO,I believe the standard for our picks are our archives, fiction and nonfiction. We never read Camus' The Stranger.

Yes, Traude, I know what the standards are, but I find just guessing easier than surfing the archives for the title. It's a good guess for the clue as this is a very famous opening that precisely fits the clue. Is it in the archives? Well, apparently not. My bad.

Kleo

Hi Ginny - I see that way back when you were wondering where I was! Yes, I was away again on a volunteer assignment to Brasil. Fabulous experience. Just got home on Sun.

Re: reading books in other places! I allow myself to choose 3 books for my 2 month assignment. The selection of these books is like a little ceremony for me. Reading in English in another country is like a massive treat, plus being a good stress reliever. I then buy a new book in the 1st airport that has English books on my return journey.

On this last trip I read Snow Flower and the Secret Fan which I had heard about from the fiction discussion. Talk about an incredible book. It has a captivating story line that appears to be well-researched, fascinating characters and a you-can't-put-me-down attitude. It truly is one of the finest books that I have ever read.

As always, good to be home, but having to adjust to quite a different life here.

Kathy

Oh gosh- I didn't realize that I had to pick from the list of books read. But the problem is solved since Kleo has already guessed the book. So it is her turn to pick one from the list.

CONGRATULATIONS KLEO !!

I'm sure your book club will enjoy this Noble Prize winning book. One of my all time favorites. The author was a hero to me and I was truly sad when he died in a car crash at an early age.

Judy

Welcome back, Kathy! BraSil this time? with an S? Will you please email me? I am not sure I have your proper email?

Welcome home!!!

I loved this that you said:

Re: reading books in other places! I allow myself to choose 3 books for my 2 month assignment. The selection of these books is like a little ceremony for me. Reading in English in another country is like a massive treat, plus being a good stress reliever. I then buy a new book in the 1st airport that has English books on my return journey

LOVE that!

Isn't it amazing the signifigance that a book or magazine or newspaper in English takes on in a foreign land? Amazing! I must get that book, so many people here have recommended it, maybe we should offer it in the fall for a new discsussion.

I bought one at the airport too, I bought the DaVinci Code because Helen on the bus in front of me careening around the Greek sheer drops was reading it to get her mind off it, so I bought it and when I put it thru the scanner the technician shook his head when he saw the title and clucked. I didn't know why but I kept it hidden for the rest of the trip. ahahaha

Mrs. Sherlock, way back there you talked about a series reading the works of one author. I like that idea, that's the second great one we've had here (or the 100th depending on how you count, but that's a super new idea and we need to try it (and the one where you bring in books to a theme that Sue had, we still want to try that one, too. Just to let you know we're paying ATTENTION!! Hahahaa And thank you for your kind words on The Professor's House.

Eloise of course I would not come to the Montreal Bash ONLY to see fireworks!!! I can see them anywhere but I did spend some time in your site there looking at your preparations and golly gee, lunch at the Frontenac (sp) hotel? You have put so much care and love into that thing, I hope everybody who does go has a wonderful time! It looks like the Best Bash Ever. Of course that does not surprise me one whit, having met you at the Books at the Beach last February! AND you are going to nosh on raisins and nuts instead of the more sinful chocolate!! hahaa

Scootz, yes Matthew Pearl is scheduled to take part in the discussion of his new book!

Pedln, Murder for Relaxation looks marvelous, thank you for mentioning it!

Congratulations, Kleo, great job!

Cute car, JoanG, and a high customer satisfaction, too! "Salsa?" hahahah you'll have to watch your speed! (Is it true the police target red cars?) Too cute!

Somebody WAY back there said they were reading Marjorie Morningstar. That one is one I am afraid to pick up again, and I'm almost afraid to ask how it is? The others are A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, How Green Was My Valley and The Fires of Spring, (and Arrowsmith) all my early faves. I'm afraid that time and jowls have dimmed the pleasure. I really don't want to know, having read again Revolutionary Road which I truly thought was a book like no other.

Carolyn, bless your heart, I am sorry to hear you have been ill and COLD!! Cold cold cold, that's cold. I hope things will warm up soon.

A lot of great stuff is happening in the Books this summer, get some lemonade in the shade (or near the fire if you are near Carolyn in NZ), and come on down to Teacher Man, that one should put some sizzle on the barbie! Hahahaa

Bill's got a very popular topic coming up on June 16 about Antiques. I personally love the Antiques Road Show, I don't know what it IS about it but when this humble person brings out this THING that's been in his attic for a long time (what WAS the highest or most valuable thing they ever had, does anybody remember? A blanket of some kind from the old west???) and the guy says what do you think it's worth and it turns out to be worth a fortune, I love the reactions. One guy said, " I believe I need to sit down." haahhahaa

I would too! Come on down and discuss antiques good and bad with Bill on the 16th and you can discuss Miss Marple and her new incarnation now in the PBS Program Clubs (see the Problems and Comments discussion on the SN Main Menu for some good news there today) and give your opinion on the new series, good or bad!

Books into Movies is discussing the DaVinci Code movie and book and the Poseidon Adventure movies (2) and book and the Patterson new movie and book and I see that Meryl Streep will play Miranda in the new movie of the Devil Wears Prada, THAT should be interesting.

I'm still Sidways with Sideways but it's definitely beginning to wear, like the Rabbit Angstrom series. (Did you see that Updike has a new thriller out? Anybody read it?)

What'cha reading?

No, but I heard him talking about it on NPR yesterday. Updike, that is.

Matthew Pearls' taking part, huh? Hmmm....

It's me reading MARJORIE MORNINGSTAR and yes, it seems juvenile to me. I doubt I'll finish it. Why didn't ya tell me?

Because it was one of my most favorite books as a youngster and I did not know it did not wear well!

Scootz--when we did his first novel, The Dante Club, Matthew Pearl came in from time to time. He's a lot of fun.

Out in April and already on the NYT bestseller list: Blue Shoes and Happiness by Alexander McCall Smith. It's # 7 in the popular series The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency .

Also new Mockingbird: A Portrait of Harper Lee by Charles Shields.
The local book group just dicussed "To Kill a Mockingbird", one of the best-selling American novels of the 20th century. To refresh our memories we first viewed the movie together. It reflects the essence of the book very well. Then we talked about the book and Lee's long friendship with Truman Capote. They grew up together in Alabama and Capote appears in the book as the character "Dill".

The book, published in 1960, became a phenomenon, yet Lee soon retreated into her private sphere. She continued to write but never produced another book. She was indispensable to Truman Capote in doing research for his "In Cold Blood", but their friendship eventually collapsed.

Also new in May, Gatsby's Girl by Caroline Preston. She was Ginevra King, Fitzgerald's first love, a rich spoiled girl of 16; he was 19, poor, a student at Princeton. Their epistolary romance lasted a few summer months. Ginevra tired of his clever correspondence and threw him over for a rich, handsome, dull aviator whom she married. Fitzgerald never forgot her. Daisy Buchanan in The Great Gatsby is patterned after Ginevra.
In this book Caroline Preston presents Ginevra's point of view and invents her life after Fitzgerald.

To be released on June 9 is the movie based on the book The Devil Wears Prada with Meryl Streep, who is always a delight to watch and behold.

Just finished Donna Leon's Through a Glass, Darkly and found it just wonderful. Yes, I'm biased. But to revisit through Leon's eyes the sights with which I am so familiar is a treat. With the book in hand as a guide, it would be easy for anyone to duplicate the steps and vaporetto trips of Commissario Guido Brunetti, just as quite a few readers have done with Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code --- not recommended in the heat of summer when hordes of profusely perspiring day-trippers litter the Piazza San Marco and the Riva degli Schiavoni.

Lastly, Julia Glass is giving readings from her new book The Whole World Over here in Massachusetts, e.g. in Concord. On June 5th she read at the Brattle Theatre in Boston.
The book is described as a "follow-up" to the award-winning Three Junes (Feno the librarian appears in it), but is not a sequel. The author lives in Marblehead, not far from Anita Diamant (The Red Tent), who lives in Gloucester.

Ah, for the love of books !

Oh, How Green Was My Valley was just a superb book and film. I read and watched years apart, though, and watched first. Was addicted to the movie throughout my teen years. I made my son watch it when he was about 8 or so, and he also loved it. While watching Jeopardy in his teens, this book was the final Jeopardy question and one of the contestants wrote, "How Green Is My Valley," and my son hit his head and groaned, "Oh, that was the whole point of the book!"

I agree completely that the film captured the essence of Harper Lee's book, Traude. In fact, I think this is probably one of the most important and brilliant film adaptations of a difficult work that is compelling in an uncomfortable manner. Robert Mulligan is a master of mid-twentieth century films, he captured that raw mood between innocence and the fall of Camelot in a number of movies. This is what a movie should do for great literature.

Traude, I know what I'll be seeing on June 9. Thanks for the alert.

I read, loved and discussed George Orwell's Animal Farm as a young teenager, and read and enjoyed it a few more times. However, when we read and discussed it on-line with my book club, I realized immediately I had made a mistake, and we should have read and discussed 1984. It doesn't mean it isn't a great, unique, important and worthwhile book.

Judy, if someone else had written that same plot, I would have had to accuse them of plagiarizing from The Stranger's world famous mid-twentieth century literary opening. It too has been a Jeopardy question many times. Seldom does anyone miss that one.

Will pick a book and post Clue 1 tomorrow.

Kleo

Yesterday at the library I checked out an Anita Diamant novel published in 2005, The Last Days of Dogtown. I haven't started it yet, but it looks interesting. She's based the story on a pamphlet she found ten years ago about an abandoned rural backwater near the Massachusetts coastline--set in the early 1800s. Has anyone read this novel? Sue

I tooolllld you, I hated MM at 50!!!

......jean

I am dying to read two new books you mentioned in your post: Mockingbird: A Portrait of Harper Lee by Charles Shields and Gatsby's Girl by Caroline Preston. I have never heard of the authors. Are these newly discovered authors? I like fresh authors. Their book plots seem chosen with care and are off the beaten path.

I happened to see Meryl Streep on the Today Show this week talking about The Devil Wears Prada. Talking about a snob Meryl Streep makes the character look and act very snobbish. It's kind of strange seeing Meryl Streep act that way. I want to read the book and see the movie.

SpringCreekFarm,

I loved The Red Tent. I think Anita Diamant really put her heart in that one.

Have we changed the rules for the contest? Are the books to come from the Archive or are there no boundaries? Just wanted to know.

Congratulations, Kleo!

SpringCreekFarm,

I also want to read The Last Days of Dogtown by Anita Diamant. I haven't read Good Harbor. Is that a good one too?

I do love Seniornet. It's a special place in our world.

Ginny, Jean- re MM- I guess I need to pay better attention to what you all say then.

I can well imagine a younger person really getting into it.

deems- Thanks re Pearl- I had planned not to do that group but will have to give that one a good think. At the very least, a good lurk.

Traude- oooh, what a juicy post that was! I have Glass' book but haven't started it yet. I am hoping that she will show up to disvcuss it at B&NU. I did a group there with her on THREE JUNES and she is just lovely- so sweet, gracious, accepting. At the time, she said she would come back so I hope she does.

About Fitzgerald- I have THE BEAUTIFUL AND THE DAMNED- is that a good read? anyone? Read Gatsby when I was young and loved it.

I have always wanted to try one of Leon's mysteries. Which is the first in that series if I start?

I liked Tender is the Night and The Great Gatsby by F Scott Fitzgerald. I have seen the movie The Great Gatsby too.

Did F. Scott Fitzgerald also have a drinking problem? I ask because Jack in the novel Sideways just called Miles F. Scott when he reached for another bottle of wine. F. Scott Fitzgerald is one of the great holes in my literary education, I am not sure why.

We need to start out a list of The Most Famous Book (or Author) I Never Read (after all nobody can read everything, right?) Maybe we should ask Why, too?

I think he did have a drinking problem.

Thanks, Hats. It's kind of bemusing to see so many literary references in Sideways . It used to be that people needed to study Mythology because of the classical references in books: if they did not know what they were they would not understand.

Modern fiction seems to have left those off (except for a few authors) and to be making references of its own, and some of them are just puzzling to me. The vocabulary in Sideways is quite impressive, I hope to see more from this author who is himself a screenwriter. Of course there are enough F words to paper the wall, another casualty of modern fiction. Still, so far I am carried on by the writer's ability with words, not the plot. Some of it is quite different from the movie.

I saw in Sundays New York Times that the town of Solvang has had a huge tourist boom as a result of the movie Sideways, which is interesting in itself. In the book and movie they are following the Wine Trail of tastings thru the Wine Country of CA. I understand you now have to pay for these? There were so many people doing "tastings" they were losing money. I have not been to Sonoma or Napa in years and since I don't drink they are wasted on me, but I am enjoying reading about the oenophile's enthusiasm anyway. (Actually sounds like a lot of bunk but I enjoy reading about people who have arcane enthusiasms and knowledge). Like anything else, a lot of knowledge about a little thing.

We would like to welcome ALL of our newcomers to the Books!!! who are showing up in our discussions and we are just delighted to have you and hope you pull up a chair and stay a LONG LONG LONG time! If you have been here a while, please watch for them and go out of your way to make them feel right at home here, plenty of our Books folks are brand new here too, and we're all one Books Family.

I am listening to an audio CD in the car, a pleasant conceit by Agatha Christie, the 12 Labors of Hercules. Each of Hercule Poirot's last cases is one one mirroring the 12 Labors. It's very clever writing, I'm entranced. Unfortunately since I don't spend THAT much time in the car, it's taking me days to get anywhere in one of them, but he just solved the first one: the Nemean Lion and I of course, had NO earthly idea who did it!

When YOU read a mystery, how often do you figure out who did it before hand? I NEVER EVER do. I never know, I wonder why that is? Do you?

Sometimes I think reading fast is a curse. I can't seem to slow down and so books that I don't want to end I have to physically PUT down and pick up another one or I can't stop till I'm through. It's heck on a trip abroad, Kathy! I was going thru them one year in Switzerland in an afternoon, and they were more precious than gold in that tiny town.

I have all sorts of ....tics that I try to use to stop reading fast but they don't work. It's ironic, having spent so many years trying to get faster (have you ever taken one of those courses?) it's now like Stephen King's Thinner , I can't seem to turn it off. And it seems to be accelerating, not getting slower with age, as I had thought it might.

Are you all fast or slow readers and which is better, do you think?

Oh and PS but it's a big one, thank you Jane for that excellent Survey and all of you for your wonderful input, we're submitting an article including many of your responses, cross your fingers and eyes! Great responses!

When I was younger, I read very fast. Now I regret being a fast reader. I find myself now rereading those books at a slower pace. Quantity no longer matters. It's what I can get and retain that matters to me. Often, in my younger years, I missed a lot of the plot because of being a speedy reader.

Also, I have discovered the joy of rereading books. It's not a waste of time. It's gaining what I missed the first time around. When I was younger, I would have thought it crazy to reread a book.

Is it too late to take the survey?

Not if you hurry!

We can use anything said on the Survey for the future, too, so please feel free!

OK. Doing it now. I can't do it now. I don't see it in my mail. I did receive it. My eyes pass over pieces of mail and I just don't see it. I am so sorry.

I have it. Sorry for the confusion.

Thank you for filling it out, Hats, we've gotten some good ones and we've used them, too. Much appreciated.

Okay, brutally obscure clues again, possibly, but if you know the book, very obvious.

Clue # 1: Ultimately, a very maternal book.

Hats, yes we're using books from the SeniorNet archives. Judy did not know that, as she stated in her post.

I almost always catch who-done-it early on in the book. It doesn't detract.

I'm a slow reader. This has always bothered me because everyone else in my family reads so fast. Whenever we got family books as kids, I was always the last in line to read it, because I took so long to read.

However, now that I've been doing book clubs on-line for the past 3 years, I realize that I tend to catch a lot that others don't catch. I wondered about this with my siblings when I first realized that I pick up so much, is this because I'm a slower reader? I've been discussing books with my siblings via e-mail, also, and, yes, they read much faster, but I get a lot more from the book. In the end, they probably get as much from reading more books, but for me, the reading is the journey, the finishing is not my destination. Since I've never read fast, I can't say which is better, except that I'm perfectly happy with my own reading skills.

Kleo

I have reread A Tree Grows in Brooklyn many times. It never loses is charm for me. She wrote a sequel as well and it is good as well. MM.. Oh well, we all loved it as young adults. Just did not wear well.I wonder. I read and Loved Exodus all those years ago and went to see the movie as well. You suppose he held up?? Anyone tried him in a long long time.

Kleo, thanks for answering my question.

Oh, I haven't read him in a long time. Another beach read of teenage years.

Kleo

I loved Uris and believe I read most if not all of what he wrote. Another one from that period would be James Michener. Funny how you recall all of those books from so long ago.

The Red Tent is the only book by Anita Diamant that I have read. I started The Last Days of Dogtown at the dentist's office today and the first few pages interested me a great deal. Sue

GINNY, unfortunately my browser won't let me forward the responses to the survey questions, nor is this the first such occurrence.
In one instance I e-mailed my answers to MARCIE.

Since you are tallying the responses to this survey, I'll e-mail mine to you forthwith.

HATS, Caroline Preston is the author of two earlier novels, Jackie by Josie , 1997, and Lucy Crocker 2.0 in 2005. The "Jackie" in the first title is Jacqueline Kennedy who had just died. The second one is likewise about families, young and old members, children, their business ventures, midlife catharsis.
Preston was a manuscript librarian in various places, among them the Peabody Essex Museum in Salem, Mass.

Charles Shields is the author of biographies for young adults. He has diligently researched Harper Lee, his elusive subject, who refused all his requests for an interview. She gave the last one in 1964 (!) Instead he talked with Harper's classmates, neighbors and acquaintances in Harper's hometown and also read letters from her literary agents and Truman Capote.
The biographical informtion that transpires ia interesting : her father, a lawyer, was the model for Atticus in "To Kill a Mockingbird"; she studied law but gave it up and followed Capote to NY in search of a writing career. It took eleven hard years.

SCOOTZ, I don't remember which one is Donna Leon's first Commissario Brunetti mystery, but either "Death in a Strange Country" or "Death at La Fenice" are great introductions to the detective genius. In these successive stories it is not so much 'who done it', but why and how. Brunetti is also a gourmand; his wife Paola, a professor of English literature at the university, is an accomplished cook; the culinary excursions (never overly long) are mouthwatering. The characters grow on the reader; one of them is la Signorina Elettra, the secretary at the questura (Police station), a bit of a sleuth herself.

At least one Italian author has followed in Leon's footsteps, his name is Andrea Camilleri, a Sicilian. He has sold millions of copies of his (somewhat derivative) mysteries since 1998. Before that he had a distinguished career in RAI, Italian radio, and TV, and wrote movie scripts.
I read one of his books, in which profanities set the tone from page 1. Mysteries never grabbed me, I made an exception for Leon (and some years ago also for Sharyn McCrumb, because the local book group was reading her).

Anita Diamant's second and third novels are regional, if I may apply that term, whereas "The Red Tent" was biblical and universal. The author lectured all morning at the local synagogue a few years ago and, in the afternoon, gave a reading from "Good Harbor".
Almost hoarse by that time, she was most generous with her time and patiently answered all questions, not minding that many were about "The Red Tent" and not about the new one, yet. Later she autographed copies of her book. I'm proud to own one. It is a story about two women friends who support each other at a difficult time in their lives. It takes place in Gloucester, where Diamant lives.
Diamant has contributed articles for The Boston Globe and Parenting Magazine; she wrote "Pitching the Tent", a book of essays, and six nonfiction books about contemporary Jewish practice.

Thanks Traude. Thursday morning is my weekly trip to B&N , sit read, drink coffee, browse, etc. I'm going to search out a Leon mystery. I have a great interest in cooking, too, so this will just suit.

Sorry, almost forgot to answer the question about Fitzgerald. He became an alcoholic in his college days.

I read "Tender is the Night", "This Side of Paradise", and "The Great Gatsby" - the last one in two different group discussions a few years ago. Perhaps the period of time at which I read the first two books had somehing to do with the fact that I was never able to warm up to his characters. They appeared superficial and shallow to me, with money and parties their only concern. Just MHO.

Much of what I learned about his personal life came from Sheilah Graham's book "Beloved Infidel". Graham was English-born and came to the U.S. as an adult. Attractive and ambitious, she became a Hollywood gossip columnist. She was 33 when she met Fitzgerald; she was his last lover. He considered her education "spotty" and prepared a comprehensive "curriculum for one", described by her in another book, "The Education of a Woman". Graham's "The Rest of the Story" was published in 1964.
Fitzgerald died in California of a heart attack at age 44. She died in 1988 at age 84,

Why is it, I wonder, that so many journalists and writers hecome alcoholics?

I just finished listening to Ian McEwan's Saturday. I seem to remember reading that some people here didn't like it, but I thought it was excellent, his best so far.

The first section is slow-going, but once the neurosurgeon gets out of the house, the action picks up. There are several parts to the plot, which is set in the near present, wonderfully integrated I thought.

Ginny I was in an experimental speed reading program at school. It began when I was about 9 and ended when I was 14. It has ruined my reading. I could read a novel now and get the gist of the plot in about an hour or so. ( ordinary sized novel not a big fat book) It has ruined my recreational reading. I can not slow down however I try. The reading course was a study aid but it sure knocked the head off the pleasure I got from recreational reading.

Carolyn

I'm going to cheat and post tomorrow's clue right now, because I have a long day of meetings and might not get to it.

I apologize if this makes it easier for those the other side of the dateline to guess sooner.

So, Clue 1: Ultimately, a very maternal book.

leads to Clue 2, because Clue 1 might make you think this is a woman's story, but it's not,

Clue 2: it's Man's sad story.

Kleo

I loved The Great Gatsby. I became interested in Fitzgerald and his wife, Zelda. I read a fascinating biography of her - Zelda : A Biography by Nancy Milford. She and her husband had their share of lost weekends.

Here's a blurb about it on Amazon:

"Zelda Sayre began as a Southern beauty, became an international wonder, and died by fire in a madhouse. With her husband, F. Scott Fitzgerald, she moved in a golden aura of excitement, romance, and promise. The epitome of the Jazz Age, together they rode the crest of the era: to its collapse and their own.

From years of exhaustive research, Nancy Milford brings alive the tormented, elusive personality of Zelda and clarifies as never before her relationship with Scott Fitzgerald. Zelda traces the inner disintegration of a gifted, despairing woman, torn by the clash between her husband's career and her own talent."

LINK

I just finished The Daughter of Time by Josephine Tey. Some of you folks recommended it, and I had it in my library. What an interesting story about Richard III as a good guy. I had only heard the well-known story of Richard, "the monster" as depicted in Shakespeare's play.

It was very short. I've been bogged down in huge books like Truman and Don Quixote. I used to be a speed reader, but since I got my graduated biofocals, my speed is way way down.

Is it "The Red Tent" by Anita Diamant??? The "maternal" clue made me think immediately of "The Red Tent."

Traude, thank you for the information about Caroline Preston. I am glad to know Anita Diamant is such a polite and kind person. Some people become disappointed at an author's behavior.

Marni, I am glad you liked "Daughter of Time." I want to read that one.

I have been still thinking of your question. There are so many good books to read. It makes me sad that one lifetime is not enough time to get each one read. I guess this is when you hope for another life.

Marni,

I read "Zelda" a long time ago. I remember feeling very sorry for her. All I can remember is thinking that she never found her true self, her identity. Didn't she take up ballet for awhile??? Maybe I am mixed up. Anyway, it is a great book. I liked it.

Traude, do you think F Scott Fitzgerald used Zelda to make the woman in "Tender is the Night" come to life? The woman in "Tender is the Night" had a lot of emotional problems. She spent time in an institution or sanatorium too.

I didn't understand a lot of "Tender is the Night." I wish we could read that one here at Seniornet.

Wow, I've been away for one day from SNet and look at all of these posts here.
Spring Creek please, oh please let us know how you like the new Diamant book, The Last Days of Dogtown. The Red Tent remains my favorite SNet reading novel. I called it my SeniorNet "sisterhood" story.

Hats- I finished The Devil Wears Prada last week and laughed myself stupid (er) over this story. It was refreshing, silly and a lot of fun to read it. However, Miranda Priestley (the protoganist) is NO Meryl Streep and Meryl Streep is NO size 0. That was Weisberger's first novel and it is a runaway. No pun intended for the fashion industry.

Kiwi- I am also a fast reader but SeniorNet has taught me how to read with interpretation and analysis. That alone has made my scanning eyes slow down over a paragraph. I am better able to scrutinize, as well as relish a good story. It is difficult for me to give a thumbs down with literature because of the author's pain staking work that is involved but I'm getting better.
I've just finished doing some preliminary reading about Edgar A. Poe, in preperation of Matthew Perles new novel. As Deems told you, he is a lot of fun to have on board while discussing his book.

Why I chose this book Intuition at the library, I know not but it "called me." Have you ever had a book call you without reason?
Well I read it and I'm still critiquing it. I have learned through SNet that many novels are character driven. Well, so be it with this story. I loved all of the characters in it with all of their human frailities; jealousy in the workplace, resentment, power. As a science major I was overly critical with some of their conclusions but -- hey that's why I read, right? Wrong because I'm carrying on as if these postdocs were my own students.
It is a story about inconsistent scientific results and data manipulation. The Intuition is what misled the researchers to expedite their results, in the cure for cancer. "Like imagination and emotion, intuition misled the researchers" towards willful interpretation for this cure. It was really enjoyable and it surprised me. I still wonder what it was that led me there. Off for a golf lesson and then a "chic flick" after a Paneros lunch.

I have "The Devil Wears Prada" on my hold list at the library. I should pick it up this weekend. I can't wait. I need a good laugh.

Of course, "Don Quixote" by Cervantes is full of laughs, good for the summer.

marni-- I read the bio of Edna St Vincent Millay a few years ago now, which was also by Nancy Milford. I loved it. I am aware of the ZELDA bio by her but never did read that one.

deems- I'm reading SATURDAY now and enjoying it. It's very different for McEwan. He must have been deeply affected by 9/11 to write this so soon after and for it to be such a departure from his normal style. I really can't imagine this one as a "listen" since most of the book seems to be his internal thoughts. The writing on the squash match was a bit of genius, I thought. I'm not liking this one as much as his normal fare, but the writing is brilliant, no question about it.

whoever- Today's USA Today book section details two books about Poe. Of course, Matthew Pearl's new THE POE SHADOW is featured, as is a new one by Louis Bayard entitled THE PALE BLUE EYE. Now, Bayard wrote a book a few years back which I read about a grown-up Tiny Tim from A CHRISTMAS CAROL. It was very well done. This new book features Poe at West Point. A cadet is found hung, with his heart carved from his chest. Poe enters the book at page 52, and "steals nearly every scene he's in". * Bob Minzesheimer

Scootz--Ah yes, the squash match is excellent. I got all excited listening to that part. Hang in there, the book keeps building, and yes, the style is something else. It was really fun to listen to as long as I didn't do anything that would take my attention away.

Maryal

Saw the two new Poe books and must really get them. However I am really backed up on books I want to read now...Hmm. impatient..just a bit. I am in a Comfort Inn in Cordele,Ga. We are on our way home from Kentucky, Tennesse, North Carolina.. A lovely cool sort of 10 days. We will be home for a few weeks and then we get our coach back from our younger son who is living in it just now and off we go to Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. All motels now seem to have wi fi.. Now if only the campgrounds do as well.

Stephanie, Enjoy yourself! Glad you can check in with us.

Stephanie - glad you had a good time visiting in our neighborhood. I hope the remainder of your trip home is uneventful. We stayed almost entirely at Comfort Inns on our trip in April/May, and enjoyed in-room Wi-Fi in each one. We DO get spoiled, don't we!

Stephanie and Mary Z: My husband wants to take a trip to North Carolina. Do you have any suggestions for special places to visit?

Hats: I think Zelda did take ballet. It's been many many years since I read the bio.

marni - NC is a lovely state. What sort of things do you like to do? NC literally goes from the wonderful beaches of the Outer Banks to the Appalachian Mountains along the Tennessee border.

Near where we are (we live in SE TN, near the SW corner of NC), are the Great Smoky Mountains National Park; Asheville, home of Thomas Wolfe (go to their web site, it's an incredible small city); the Biltmore Mansion (built by George Vanderbilt around 1900); great numbers of wonderful arts & crafts places; the Appalachian Trail; part of the ancestral home of the Cherokee Indians; casinos. And that's just on the NC side of the mountains. TN, of course, has lots more.

I don't know as much about the midstate, but it has just as much rich heritage. The Outer Banks - the barrier islands along the Atlantic Coast - have incredible charm and scenery.

Where do you live, and what sort of things are you looking for? Have you checked in with any of the NC web sites, or the NC SeniorNet Discussion?

Marni, have you been to the Biltmore in Ashville -- the Vanderbuilt mansion? Plan to spend a day. Also, there is a wonderful folk art center right near Ashville, maybe just off I-40, but I've only been once, so am not sure. One place I've read about, but have never been and really WANT TO GO -- is Seagrove, NC -- it's a pottery center and from what I understand has wonderful folk pottery. Mystery writer Margaret Maron's(Judge Deborah Knott series) Uncommon Clay takes place in Seagrove.

The homeplace of Carl Sandburg is not too far from Asheville, either. Waynesville, NC, is a charming little town (at least it was when I was a teen) west of Asheville with crafts, square dancing in the streets on Thursday night, and beautiful scenery. Sue

The Appalachian Craft Center that pedln mentioned is near I-40, in Asheville, and just off the Blue Ridge Parkway. I forgot to mention that lovely drive, too.

Oh, yay, this is perfect! My husband is interested in the Blue Ridge Mountains, so I guess we're thinking about western NC. I really like your ideas. We like to do gentle hiking in interesting landscape, see beautiful country, tour through famous places, national parks and sites, historic sites and houses, eat in interesting places....many things. I'm not looking for going to the beach, although we love the seaside. But this trip won't be a seaside trip. We do like to see beautiful bodies of water, though. I've copied your comments and am collecting ideas. I'll be looking through the AAA Guidebook and Fodors online, too.

Thanks, Sue, Pedin, and Mary Z!

Marni

Does anybody read Larry McMurtry? We just got our summer fiction edition of The New Yorker, and there's an ad for a new book from him. It's called "Telegraph Days". I checked our library's web site, it's listed as "on order". I placed a hold on it and, amazingly, I'm NUMBER ONE on the holds list. Wow!

I'm finding all sorts of good stuff in this issue of The New Yorker. Have any of y'all read books by Ivan Doig? His early books are autobiographical novels set in Western Montana in the first half of the 20th century. They are lovely, well-written father/son stories, and well worth looking for in your library or used book store.

Anyhow, I just found out that he's written a new book, The Whistling Season. I've already ordered that one, too.

And I'm just on page 63 of this thick new issue of the magazine. What other prizes are in store for me?!?!

Oh, I LOVE Larry McMurtry!!! One of my favorite authors. Lonesome Dove is one of my all-time favorite novels! And I LOVED Terms of Endearment"! Oh, and The Last Picture Show"! I think I've read all of his books. I'm looking forward to reading his latest. Haven't heard anything about it yet.

You're lucky you're #1, Mary Z!

Did you know that Larry McMurtry wrote the screenplay for "Brokeback Mountain"?

Yes, I've read almost everything written by Larry McMurtry.
When we were talking about beach reading, here, the other day, I could have listed him.
Some of his old novels were somewhat light stuff, and also were enjoyable.
The newer ones, in a sequence of 4 or 5, are about the Wild West, and more weird and include a bit too much blood and gore.
In edit: Sin Killer , vol. 1 of the Beryybender [sic] Narratives, was the novel with too much killing for me.
Wandering Hill, the next vol. of the Beryy...series was ok, but not especially outstanding.

Mippy: I got interested in McMurtry's character Pomp Charbonneau in the Berrybender series. Looked him up and found out he was a real person - Sacajawea and Toussant Charbonneau's son, born on the Lewis and Clark expedition. There is some fascinating info about Pomp on the web.

Yes, Pomp, the son of Sacajawea, was a real person; I've read about him in histories about Lewis and Clark.
Sorry about the Berrybender typo, I cut and pasted from Amazon, bad idea ...
Anyway, did you like these latest novels as much as the earlier ones, Marni?

Over 60 posts since yesterday?!!! I simply cannot keep up. I skip to the end, with apologies for all I undoubtedly missed.

I picked up "She Who Remembers" today and already have a good start on it. I don't remember who recommended it, but I am enjoying it. I have read other books about the early SW tribal cliff dwellers and always find them fascinating.

Babi

I also often scroll fast and skip many postings but that is because some of them have nothing to do with books.

Robby

Mippy: I was a bit disappointed in the last of the Berrybender series. It started out well. The violence didn't bother me. Maybe I'm getting jaded. But in the last of the 4 books, he seemed very rushed.

I also didn't care for all of his more contemporary novels about Texas. But I liked the sequel to Terms of Endearment. Can't remember the title. And I did love the entire series that started with Lonesome Dove, the books of the Texas Rangers.

North Carolina: the Great Smoky Mountains. As far as I am concerned, if you see nothing else, that will do it. I lived on Camp Lejeune, my sister was stationed at Fort Bragg, and my husband's family is from Louisiana. The first time we drove home to Louisiana on leave, we stayed in the Great Smoky Mountains for a few days. These are truly ancient mountains, once huge grand giants like the Himalayas, now worn down through time to gently rolling mountains.

Okay, Andrea and Ginny have convinced me it's time to read The Devil Wears Prada.

Hats, no, it's not Red Tent.

We read and discussed Hemingway's The Sun also Rises followed by Fitzgerald's Tender Is the Night then Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front to start reading the authors of the Lost Generation--it was a powerful introduction to these writers. Tender is a superb book for discussion. I'm sure Nicole Diver is modeled in part after Zelda. Write what you know.

Kleo

Clue #3

It doesn't star a tent, but maybe a truck.

Kleo

How about "All Over But the Shoutin'" by Rick Bragg?

Ann, good answer! I really enjoyed that book, "All Over But the shoutin'." I want to one day read "Ava's Man." I hope that's the answer.

Well I don't believe my eyes here. I just returned from a short trip to the mountains of Western North Carolina. It is so beautiful and green there right now. I came in here this morning after driving 500 miles yesterday and find the talk about North Carolina.

I was there for the middle school graduation of one of my grandsons. It had been a year since I had been there and it was like going home. My son and his family live near Sylva, North Carolina, in the mountains. It is a lovely area. My son is a physician and works in Waynesville at Haywood Regional Medical Center. He is leaving there this month though and making a move to Beaufort South Carolina. They have their North Carolina house up for sale.

Marni it is a gorgeous area but it is very crowded with tourists.

On my drive home yesterday I listened to Jan Karon's last book. Her books are really light reading about an Episcopal Minister who lives and works in the North Carolina Mountains. The one I just listened to is "Light From Heaven". These books are good for listening when driving because they are so light.

Joan Grimes

Nope, not Rick Bragg.

Kleo

Joan- I have read several of Karons books. They are nice reading when one is not up to concentrating too hard. Glad you had a nice visit with your family.

Carolyn

JoanG: I can't wait to see NC!!

For you folks who participated in the McCullough 1776 discussion earlier this year, there was an interesting article in the paper yesterday.

Remember Banastre Tarleton? (the most hated British officer that served in the American Revolution, known as "The Butcher" or "Bloody Ban" because he and his officers had a tendency to bayonet prisoners.) Tarleton's family is auctioning off, through Sotheby's, 4 American standards that Tarleton and his men captured. They expect to get at least $10 million for the 4 standards. Apparently, America really wants to get them back because there are very few remaining in existence.

One of the standards was that of the 2nd Regiment Light Dragoons-Sheldon's Horse, formed in Wethersfield, CT. It may be the oldest known American flag with 13 red and white stripes. Another of the 4 standards may be the oldest known American flag with 13 stars.

I would be so excited if Hartford's Wadsworth Atheneum were able to buy or receive as a gift the Sheldon's Horse standard. It would make a wonderful addition to the room that houses the John Trumbull paintings of the Revolution.

you have read so many of the books mentioned, it boggles my mind. Do you keep track of the books you read? Do you know the number of them? Do any of you keep track of the books you read? I do seem to remember a brief discussion about this sometime back, don't know if it was on this site.......I have kept a little notebook for about 10 yrs, wish i had started it long before that......now my dgt gave me a PalmPIlot on which i am keeping my lists - as well as in the notebook, don't trust technology to not "disappear." ....It allows me to take it to the library and i can quickly check to see if i've ALREADY READ the book that i've got in my hand - had that happen more than once...hahaha......also, i have put in the palm, in categories, the trillions

of books that you all have recommended on SN, so i seldom just browse the stacks anymore......i usually have at least one fiction and one non-fiction book "going." Altho, at the moment there are at least four on my nightstand and a couple on the coffee table.........Are we obsessed????.......jean

Mary I did not know you lived that close to Asheville. - the next time I visit my daughter we must meet over a cup of coffee or lunch - she is south of Asheville. and a bit west of Hendersonville in Saluda - a small mountain town with a school that goes from 1 - 8 grade with about 240 students in the school to give you a sense of the size of the town.

We visited the Carl Sandburg house a couple of years ago - great experience - he and his wife lived an interesting life. She wrote all this information that is still used today about raising goats and bred champion goats which often was their sole income. What I loved seeing was this house "FILLED" with books that paper and cards are poking up in most of the books marking a page that Sandburg wanted easy access to.

Barbara, we'd love to visit with you. I know that area fairly well. Chattanooga is just two hours south of Knoxville on I-75 (or 2 hours north of Atlanta). It's a great location! Austin is a lovely city, too - my grandparents lived there during WW, but I haven't been there in years and years. (Sorry, Robby - we digressed again

Well, you folks influenced me to buy The Devil Wears Prada to take on my vacation next week. Looks like an airplane book. We are doing an Elder Hostel in Maine where we have never been before. Then on to Vermont to visit relatives.

Keep the Homefires burning..

Judy

Judy, what EH are you taking, and where in Maine is it?

KLEO, it appears that there is already a movie made of "The Devil Wore Prada". I saw it advertised on TV the other night as opening soon locally. I have no idea what the book is about; I'll wait until you finish reading it and give your opinion.

OBSESSED, JEAN? Surely not. Just, uh, intensely interested.

Babi

Digressing again, but Mary and Barbara, isn't there some kind of music camp or music retreat area near Hendersonville, NC -- begins with "B"? In that area somewhere?

Don't know about that, pedln. Have you tried the H'ville, NC, web site? Surely they have one.

http://www.historichendersonville.org/

There's another neat little town in that area called Brevard, NC.

AHA, here it is!!!!

http://www.brevardmusic.org/index.php

What's an elderhostel?

Jean: My husband thinks we're definitely obsessed! I can't get over how organized you are with listing your books. What a good idea! I've certainly had those occasions where I've taken out - or bought - a book that I had already read. I must say, though, that as time goes on, I have found that a book may seem familiar, but I can't remember it and enjoy it all over again!

JEAN: I, too, have purchased a book that I have already read and enjoyed it as much the second time as the first. I have a list on my computer but I like the thought of getting palm pilot and putting it on there. The way it is now, unless I order a book over the Internet, I can't check my list.

Scootz, Elderhostel is an organization putting on learning programs for seniors (those 55 and over). Here's their web site...

http://www.elderhostel.org/

and there's an Elderhostel discussion here on SN in Travel Topics. We've been going to them since 1995, and love the programs. They cover every imaginable subject.

marni, when we were getting most of our books from the library, I used to put a small unobtrusive mark in a crease of the book binding to alert myself that we had had that book checked out. I quickly noticed that I was not alone in doing this. I'll bet if you check inside the cover of almost any fiction book in your library, you'll find a small pencil mark that someone has put there to mark that he/she has read it.

I've often thought of keeping a list, but the problem would be in having it with me when I went to the library or the book store.

Brevard is west of Hendersonville where as Saluda is half way down the mountain east of Hendersonville - a long way down and you are in Tryon where I met Ginny for lunch a couple of years ago. She drove up from her home in SC.

Thanks, Mary.I'll have a look at that.

Kleo/Babi- If you opt to read Devil Wears Prada you must keep in mind it's a FUN book- there could be a great deal of discussion re. this book on SNet but bear in mind it's a "chic lit" book. Noone is saying it's a cerebral masterpiece- just a fun read.

Barbara, Brevard Music Center is what I was thinking of -- just found their web site after your post. They put on 80 concerts in June, July, August -- everything from chamber music to musicals and operas. Faculty, guest artists, high school and college students.

JoanG

Where does your son live in NC? And where is he going to be in Beaufort,SC. That's one of our favorite places to visit while staying on Fripp Island. It was ignored by the north during the Civil War so many of the homes go way back. Charming little town.

Well, Kleo, I am waiting for another clue.

On saving a list of books that I have read, I am having enough trouble saving a list of books that I want to read. I find little pieces of paper stuck in my purse, next to my computer, on the frig, in the bathroom drawer. Yes, everywhere! I have a friend who keeps a small notebook with all that she has read listed. Some folks are so organized! I just try to use my memory! But my hard drive has crashed so many times in the last few years! Hahaha!

What I would like is for the library to keep a list of what I have checked out but they can't do that as its an invasion of my privacy. I wonder if they would offer that service as long as I give them written permission? Hmmmm, somehow, I don't think so. The ability is certainly there with the use of computers. I used to try to keep check out receipts but they are all over the house in strange places,too.

Hi Ann,

My son lives in Jackson County, NC. The location is very near Dillsboro, NC. Dillsboro is where one goes to ride on The Great Smoky Mountains Railroad. It is a beautiful area.

As for Beaufort, I have not been there. They have told me all about it though. They have a beautiful home at Seabrook Island, South Carolina but it is a two hour drive from Beaufort. They will probably sell the Seabrooke Island house. They are planning to buy a house in Beaufort. I hope to be able to see Beaufort at the end of this montI put clickable links in so that you can check out the areas if you are interested.

Joan Grimes

Joan, Beaufort is one of my all time favorite places to visit. Lovely old homes, beach right there , neat small downtown with art galleries and great places to eat. All in all a nice small town. I would bet your son will love it and so will you.

Don't know if'n I'm supposed to do this or not.But I will anyhow.

I wanted to make a plea for anyone interested in food, cookbooks, food network shows, etc to come join Bev and I over on Culinary board and then under Recipe Books Cookbooks and Food shows (something like that). She and I have been keeping it alive over there. Surely someone, anyone, here is interested in talking food! Hope to see some new faces there.

I finished SATURDAY yesterday and really liked it a lot. Let's hope his Sunday is a lot calmer than his Saturday was!

I am curious about the poem by Matthew Arnold that figured so strongly in the book. Do you know it? I tried to google it but can't recall the name of the poem now and the book went back to the library! Help!?

hehe Anna at least your wish list is on pieces of odd paper - I go to the extent of purchasing them - oh my you should see the stacks in my Den and an unused bedroom that if organized could be a library with stacks not only around the walls but like a library in the middle of the room - for now I have huge plastic boxes from Lowes filled to the brim as well as both closets are filled - I try to stop and do so for several months than off I go - Amazon makes it so darn easy...

The following National Geographic Program is scheduled for Sunday Evening:

***WORLD PREMIERE*** "Napoleon's Final Battle" at 9P et/pt Stripped of his throne and imprisoned on an island, Napoleon Bonaparte did not surrender. He escaped and returned to power. Follow the story of one of history's greatest conquerors and his astonishing comeback

I copied the above from a National Geographic site. Actually Napoleon’s state on the Mediterranean island of Elba was far less than imprisonment. He was allowed to keep his royal status, not as Emperor of France, but as Emperor of Elba with a royal court and the accompanying perks and privileges. His escape was quite easy and back in France he was immediately accepted as Emperor.

This program is the story of the 100-days that led to the Battle of Waterloo, final defeat and real imprisonment, this time in the far South Atlantic on an isolate Island, St Helena. There the royal perks were gone and he was truly in a prison with a British jailer and guard. Three years later he died so stomach cancer.

I thought he died of arsenic poisonning?

Matthew Arnold, "Dover Beach."

If you know the poem, the doctor's first response to what he's hearing is funny because he reads his daughter and her lover into it and makes a number of other mistakes. The grandfather was especially clever to have Daisy recite a poem she had long ago memorized for him because he has some idea of the kind of poem that might have an effect on the audience.

Scootz,

Yes! Of course it's John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath, which is ultimately, or in its ending, a woman's story, but is the story of man's inhumanity to man, and stars the Joad's truck that brings them from Eastern Oklahoma to California, where they can show that even the poorest of humans can maintain dignity in the face of the unendurable.

Ann, thanks for the enthusiasm.

But I know Scootz knew she won as soon as she thought of Grapes. Obscure, but if you know the book you can feel confident when you realize what one it is.

Babi, Yes, Traude just posted the opening date for The Devil Wore Prada as July 9th or something. Whatever the date I'll be looking for it playing nearby as soon as it opens.

Alf, of course it's a fun read! And that's what I'm looking for: my summer beach reading and I think Ginny found it for me. I read tons of literature and poetry and drama and a full yearly dosage of trash, too, and just fun reads, also. I may like fine dining, but I'll always be taking canned cheese on camping trips.

Napoleon's cause of death is the French grassy knoll. Stomach cancer was quite likely as it ran in his family. I personally think he died from the medical treatment he received due to the stomach cancer.

Kleo

I'm running out the door. Will take the list of archives with me and be back with a clue in a short while. Thanks Deems, I need to look that peom up. Did you like the book, too?

kleo- the truck gave it away.

Scootz--I really liked it. Daughter recommended it--or rather put it on my iPod. I think if I'd been reading it, I might have given up in the beginning (until he goes out to the squash game) but I will listen to things longer. I'm glad I did. "Dover Beach" will be everywhere online. It used to be a popular selection to be read at weddings.

Oh man ! It has been over 100 every day this week and we are only in June, folks. Next Monday new water restrictions go into effect with upwards of $2,000 fines. We have just been out buying soaker hoses, etc- us, and every other person in the town!

Clue #1-a tale of blue collar life

deems- I also was kinda bored the first part but the squash match drew me in. Also, the visit to his Mother- oh wow! Now that I would have loved to hear. He was so good to her!

Scootz, I'm glad I don't live where you do. I'm complaining about the 92 we're having now. Air conditioning is a wonderful thing.

I didn't start to keep book journals until about two years ago. You really started keeping book journals long before me. Ten years is a long time. You have a treasure trove.

I have heard people talk about the PalmPilot. Your post is now making me think about it more closely. A bunch of notebooks becomes unwieldy.

I would love to read through your book journals.

I have found a software program for books, either your livbrary or those you want to buy, borrow, etc. It is at collectorz.com. Both MAC OS X and Windows. It is not free.

It's called Book Collector, and reading further it tells me I can download info to my Ipod! I can carry my lists in that neat little package right with me to the book store! I'll be letting you know how it works when I get back home (I'm house/dog sitting for my sister.)

Mary Z- Thanks for the info on the Elder Hostel Site. I will definitely take a look when we come back.In answer to your question....

We are going to Penobscot Bay in Maine on a Geological, Botanical and Oceanology survey . A lot of outdoors and walking tours. This will be different than the last Elder Hostel we went to which was loads if indoor fun. " Behind the Scenes in Las Vegas". We went behind the scenes at two shows, then saw the shows, behind the scenes at the Aquarium, Behind the scenes at the Casino was the school for "Dealers" where we learned how the Casinos work, how people try to cheat the casinos etc. There were fascinating lectures on the City itself and how it has grown to one and a half Million people etc etc. We heard from a number of folks (at a Hostel in the Everglades in Florida )how interesting the Las Vegas Hostel was and they were right.

Elder Hostel is a marvelous organization and with over 1000 choices there is something for everyone.

Judy

Ann: I loved your comment about book lists! So funny!!

Our town library has a nice feature - in fact our region has a nice feature. The libraries have sites on the internet where you can search for a book in any library in the region. Our town library will order a book from any of these locations, or you can order it yourself on the website.

Also on the site is a place called "My Account." The books you read or ordered are listed there for you to check. You need a PIN to get in, so it's private. You can access the site from anywhere.

Of course, I've never used My Account!!

Mrs. Sherlock: I'm interested in that program you can download into your IPod. That sounds cool. Would love to hear more about it.

Is the new Pick a Plot 'Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man'

Scootz I sympathise with your temps of 100 day after day and the water restrictions. Summer here can be very hot for long periods - we've had water restrictions in place for 5 years or more and no let up in sight. This year is the driest start to winter EVER and exceptionally cold as well - some farmers have abandoned their seeding so it wont be a good harvest later on,

Have just read 'Year of Wonders' Geraldine Brooks which several here recommended. On the whole I enjoyed the read but found some aspects just too unrealistic to take. Personally I didn't think it as good as her effort with 'March' - even allowing for the fact that in March she was building on a well known base for some of her characters.

gumtree,

We are used to hot here, but not this early. (Actually, that's a lie- I never have gotten used to the summer heat here.) It doesn't bode well for the entire summer. My husband joked that I now need an engineering degree to figure out all the hoses, connections, etc. My yard is complex. Not much grass, but lots of beds. We can water the beds by hand during specific hours, but our lawn only can be watered once a week- Tuesdays. Of course, my sprinkler system stations are a cmbo of lawn and beds, so it's gonna be tricky. I told my hub not to expect dinner on that night!

Yes, it must be awful for people whose livelihood depends upon water.

I haven't read either of the Brooks books, but know them. Thanks for sharing your comments on same.

Clue#2- a controlling woman

marni, our library is a city/county library with the downtown main library and about 5-6 branches. We can see the whole catalog on line, order books, and have them delivered to whichever branch we prefer. We also have a personal account, but ours just shows the books we have currently checked out, when they are due, and allows us to renew on line. It also shows books that we have on reserve, and the status of that reserve. It doesn't show what books you've checked out in the past. That'd be nice in some respects, but with the temper of the climate today, I don't think I'd want a list of the books I read "out there" (although somebody probably already has one

I'm just starting Michael Cunningham's new-out-in-paper SPECIMEN DAYS. I loved THE HOURS and learned a lot about Woolfe reading it. This one is about Walt Whitman, in a three novellas form. What can anyone tell me about him, in a nutshell, if you will? About all I know is that he wrote LEAVES OF GRASS.

Cathie, too lazy to research and hoping for some info here. TIA...

Scootz, that's about all I know too. I do know he cared and wrote about the Civil War. I don't know whether he fought in the Civil War. I think there is or was a question about his sexual persuasion. I am not sure about that either. I would like to read "Speciman Days." I heard about it. I didn't know the plot. I have read some of the poems in Leaves of Grass. One I like is something about a "Lilac." I don't know the full name of the poem offhand.

I would love to read all of "Leaves of Grass." The poems I have read are really beautiful and say a lot. "I Sing America" is one. I remember that title offhand, hope it's the correct title.

Scootz, you read some awfully good books. Do you have a list of what you have read this month alone??? I know you read "Saturday."

Hats, you've read some good books, too. How many are you reading right now? I can only read two at a time, my mystery/SF/whatever, and the discussion book. As a fast reader I go through many books in a month and it's hard to keep myself amused sometimes.

hats, This month, THE ALCHEMIST (didn't like it), SATURDAY and now this new one. I also read the Cather homosexuality book I ordered. I have so many on my shelves that I have a hard time deciding what to read next. Do you?

I don't have to do any group discussion reading for three weeks, so I feel like a kid in a candy shop- three whole weeks to read whatever I want! Wow!!

Mrs. Sherlock, I am loving Don Quixote, Pablo Neruda's poetry and Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe. I had the nerve to get a pile from the library yesterday. One is Snow Flower and the Fan by Lisa See and The Devil Wears Prada and some other books. I won't make it through all of those books. It's a dream. It sure is fun trying to do it.

Anyway, for now I am focused deeply on the first three books.

We talked a lot about Willa Cather recently. Then, we read "The Professor's House." Have any of you heard of or read "Sapphira and the Slave Girl" by Willa Cather? It is on my shelf. I have never read it.

This is written on the back of the book.

"Sapphira and the Slave Girl ranks with Death Comes for the Archbishop, My Antonia and A Lost Lady."

Hats, the Cather sounds good. I"ve got My Antonia waiting, The Club Dumas, by Arturo Perez-Reverte and The Geographer's Livrary by Jon Fasman. I'm finishing The Other Daughter by Lisa Gardner. Dumas and Geographer I picked up at Coscto. I'm going back to get a book about Poe, can't remember which of the two we've talked about here at SN it is but I've always been a Poe fan.

I have forgotten where to make a suggestion for a book. I would like to suggest "Sapphira and the Slave Girl" by Willa Cather. Also, "The Handmaid's Tales" by Margaret Atwood. I think one of the DL's mentioned "Handmaid's Tale" by M. Atwood. Thank you.

Handmaid's Tale should be a good one for discussion. I've just finished Barbara Delinsky's Coast Road and one of the sub-plots concerns the main character's book club which has met every week for five years. SOme of the books they've read are brought into the plot line. I was envious of the emotional attachment of the BC members to one another.

I read HANDMAID'S TALE ages ago. Would love to reread it and discuss. Only think I know about that Cather book, hats, is that it was her last one, I believe.

Scootz, It does feel like being in a candy store.

'It's hard to keep myself amused sometimes.'

What a funny thing to say, MrsSherlock.

And Scootz wants Whitman in a nutshell! That's even funnier. But poor Walt must be turning over, wherever he is, with his face to the wall.

How long can you stay focused on three books, with more coming at you all the time, Hats?! I'm curious, too, about Cather's Sapphira and the Slave Girl. Is it available online? Is the Cather discussion still open? Maybe we could use that to comment on it.

Why would you want to waste good reading time on that 'Cather homosexuality book', Scootz. That's only for the converted. Do you remember anything about sex in the book? I remember only the short statement in the last part of the book, in which Cather suggests that sex just messes up ones character. And ones fate. And her own life bears witness to the fact. The only sex problem that the professor may have had, imo, would be the one that left him impotent. Signals of that everywhere. Goodness, how much else did we miss in that book?

Jonathan asked:

Why would you want to waste good reading time on that 'Cather homosexuality book', Scootz.

I have to say, Jonathan that this question absolutely shocked me coming from you. I let it rest, went out to dinner, and now come to answer it.

Why would you judge this as a waste of good reading time? I don't think that you have read this book, have you? So, if not, how can you judge it a waste of time? I'm not angry, I'm curious.

If you have read anything about Willa's life, it is widely written that she was gay. And many scholars believe that she was talking about "the thing that cannot be named" in her books- not all, but some of her books, and also some of her short stories.

This book I read is written by such a scholar at the University of Nebraska. I will say this- that after I read his essay on THE PROFESSOR'S HOUSE, it was like the proverbial scales fell from my eyes. It all was so cleaar what was going on in that book. Not everyone will see it, or accept it, but I believe it .

The fact that it's not talked about doesn't mean it isn't in that story- Willa, God bless her, with all her layers and icebergs, though, is saying something to us. The Professor and the youndg fellow (can't even recall his name now) may not have had a sexual relationship. And that may be what was wrong with the Professor- repression instead of depression. Like I say, not everyone will agree with this, but I'm a believer.

haahah are you all STILL discussing The Professor? hahaahah What a book for a book club to talk about! I still think he stole Tom's book as I just said in the non dead discussion hahahaa what a book, it's about on a par of the DaVinci Code for controversy and perspective. I loved that discussion.

Jonathan: Amusement is lacking when there are no new books to read, nobody is posting on SeniorNet, my bank account is too low for me to go on a shopping splurge, TV can be a waste of time, I don't drink or indulge in recreational drugs.

Scootz: You asked about Walt Whitman. I know just a couple of things. I read he was from New York and I believe he was an abolitionist. He was a nurse in an army hospital during the Civil War. That must have been quite an experience.

You can make your recommendation right here in the Nook and also, in the Fiction folder/discussion listed under "Our General/genre book discussions". I hope you love "Snowflower and the Secret Fan" as much as I did. Lisa See is a wonderful writer. I am thinking of ordering on of her other books--Dragon Bones might be good. There's another title that I have seen elsewhere but haven't found it in our library list. Her three first titles, starting with "Flower Net" are supposed to be thrillers about a Chinese female police detective and an American inspector who have an ongoing relationship and are investigating murders. The settings are interesting, especially the one entitled, "Dragon Bones" which is set on Yangtsi River when the massive building of the Three Rivers Dam is taking place. They are more appropriate for young people. I would have sworn that I saw another title but its not anywhere that I have looked. Of course, she as written a family history which might be intriguing, "On Gold Mountain".

Hi Jonathan, It seems alright to leave the Cather recommendation here. Some people want to stay focused on "The Professor's House" for now.

Ann, You make me want to start "Snowflower and the Secret Fan" immediately. Thanks for all the yummy information about the author too.

Marni,I wondered whether Walt Whitman was an abolitionist. His poems do seem to have a feel of seeing everybody, no matter their walk of life, as Americans.

Thanks marni- that's good info and just what I meant. I can go research him and probably will at some point but was just looking for some items of interest re him.

I ordered DRAGON BONES but couldn't get interested in it. But I'm not ahuge mystery reader so that may just be me. have any of you read WILD SWANS? It's about three generations of Chinese woman- non-fiction. I've had it forever and just haven't gotten around to it yet, but it's highly praised.

Clue#3- (I haven't had a single guess yet, what gives, all?)

oily ladle

Wild Swans was very interesting ... highly recommended!

Mippy, I would like to read "Wild Swans."

I read Walt Whitman years ago, but truthfully was not impressed. I am a Edna St. Vincent Millay fan..or Emily Dickinson or a lot of american poets, but not Whitman. Sapphira and the Slave Girl.. Oh me, I do love the title. Must look it up to read. I loved the Handmaids Tale.. And just now in the US, it is getting more and more appropriate. Exaggerated true, but some of the stuff I read makes me wonder.. Ralph Reed for one..That is a scary man indeed. I suspect he would love to keep all females under lock and key. After all he knows so much better than they do what to do with their bodies.

I have Wild Swans here in the house somewhere but I don't think that I have read it. Another memory dump?

Stephanie

Maybe those three other Lisa See books were too juvenile?? I will peruse one at the library when I am there this morning.

Yes, Hats, do read "Snowflower" first. Its just loved by everyone!

Stephanie, I understand your feelings about Walt Whitman. His poetry is what? Like blank verse?

I have discovered a new author, Angela Thirkell. Have any of you heard of her or read her books? She is an older author. I would say light reading which is fun at times.

Angela Thirkell

I haven't heard of Thirkell, hats, but her stuff looks right up my alley- English country life? Oh yeah, baby..love, love, love it! Do you have a particular one to recommend?

Scootz: Empire Falls ??

jane

Five Quarters of the Orange by Joanne Harris??????

Jane, you got it!! Good job.

Did the "greasy spoon" give it away? Take it away, jane!

Sorry, hats, not that one, but it's a good guess. Wasn't there a little food cart kind of thing in that book?

Scootz, what's the answer?

Congratulations, Jane!

Hats and Scootz,

Thirkell is an old favorite of mine. I haven't read anything by her in many years but I used to read her books alot. Wonderful English contry life books. Your are right Hats they are light but that is all right too.

BTW I love Walt Whitman and always have.

Joan Grimes

I'm going to ask for a break in the game for a bit. Maybe it'd be fun to restart in the fall? People are in and out so much over the summer that maybe a hiatus would be ok?

I thought maybe when you said "blue collar" and then the "oily ladle" kind of made me think maybe it was Empire Falls.

jane

Angela Thirkell's books are not exactly a series but they are about a small place and the same families pop in and out. It is rare to find her books and i grab them when I see them.

hats, The answer was EMPIRE FALLS.

A hiatus suits me fine, jane.

JANE, yes, a hiatus is a good idea. Too many distractions here during the sumer.

SCOOTS, when I saw your # 468 I checked the SN board; found numerous entries for the "cooking" category, but none that sound like your and Bev's folder. What exactly is its name/title? I'd be interested. Thanks in advance.

Scootz, thanks. Those were good clues too.

Golly, Hats - I haven't thought of Angela Thirkell in years and years. I've never read her, but she was a great favorite of my mother.

Traude-

Go to Discussions page, then click on Culinary Arts & Recipes; scroll down to Recipe Books and Food Shows. It's not my /Bev's folder, but we post there. Stepanie is there too (sorry, i forgot you Steph) and a few more faces now. Come on over!!

Traude-

Go to Discussions page, then click on Culinary Arts & Recipes; scroll down to Recipe Books and Food Shows( we're about 7th from the bottom). It's not my /Bev's folder, but we post there. Stephanie is there too (sorry, I forgot you Steph) and a few more faces now. Come on over!!

Angela Thirkell. I read her years ago and liked the descriptions of country life. I suspect her way of life is gone now, but the books were great fun. Whitman.. I guess my best answer is that I keep thinking.. GET ON WITH IT. I know, not fair, but he affects me that way. I like a lot of English Poets.. and a few American women.. not many though. Of course Poe, but that is just sort of sonorous word mania. Fun though

Here's a short cut to Recipe Books & Food Shows that Scootz is talking about:

, "Recipe Books & Food Shows" #,

Mrs Sherlock: "Jonathan: Amusement is lacking when there are no new books to read, nobody is posting on SeniorNet, my bank account is too low for me to go on a shopping splurge, TV can be a waste of time, I don't drink or indulge in recreational drugs".

Boy, you took the words right out of my mouth!! Although it is altogether too easy to order "just one book" from Amazon or B&N.

worse and worse

Scootz, that makes the book just too good to be true. But I'm going out to look for the Anders book. I kind of doubt that he will make a believer out of me. Is he one of those who leaves no stone unturned? I respect Cather too much to think she would pussyfoot around 'things that can't be named'. I doubt that she wrote in code, to be discovered by future generations. Sexual repression is too easy an out in the professor's case. That would trivialize his sad plight. But now I'm turning serious.

When is the better time to hear an irksome opinion? Before or after dinner?...

MrsSherlock, when those things are missing for me, I get into a panic. I admire your character in finding it only unamusing.

'Get on with it.'

Stephanie, it may not be unfair to say that about Whitman's verse. I've just read in another post that he left it blank. And Poe composed in a manic style? They must have been trying to say something.

SCOOTZ, and particularly JANE (who knows my primary weakness), thank you for the link to "Recipe Books and Food Shows". Will be right there.

JONATHAN, based on my own experience, I would recommend difficult questions wait until after dinner.

At one time in my career I was a 'team leader' for State nursing home inspectors. There was a young man, a pharmacist, who did the pharm. review. I always made sure he had his lunch before he started writing his findings and deficiencies. Before lunch, he tended to be hypercritical; after lunch he was much fairer and even-handed. Hunger definitely tends to make people short-tempered.

.Babi

This is a little off the subject, but are we the only ones getting a phone call a minute from the Candidates for tomorrow's Primary? I thought that Do Not Call applied to candidates, too? Does it not?

These are not people, these are recordings and this last one just now could not be deleted, the message while in progress could not be deleted.

Another called the other day and would not leave a message. Finally in great irritation I picked up the phone (it's always 000-000-000 on the answering machine, and it began its spiel. How can it tell the difference between the answering machine and me?

A voice is a voice, right?

If anybody would like to continue their discussion of the Professor's House, it's still open? I think I'll always leave mine open a bit, (why kill yourself to shut it?) we've gotten some great stuff on that one, including some fantastic photos of the area.

Congratulations, Jane on winning the Pick a Plot contest, it's been a lot of fun and a trip down memory lane to look thru the Archives, I've enjoyed it, thank you all for playing!

I'm almost finished with Sideways and it sure IS Sideways, I'm not sure what to think of it, we're sort of discussing the movie/ book off and on in Books Into Movies if you'd like to come over there and remember it. It's got some very nasty parts in it, some very strong nasty language but it's a first book by a screenwriter (who himself looks like an aging child star) and apparently was made instantly into a movie so maybe his next book will be better. He's got SOME vocabulary tho, no joke.

The May/June issue of Bookmarks which a lot of us swear by has got some great recommendations for Dad for Father's Day, and news of what's about to come out in paperback and when and they give them stars, like ratings. I have not heard of They Poured Fire on Us From the Sky: the True Story of Three Lost Boys from Sudan is that the one they profiled on 60 minutes? It looks like something the Read Around the World might like.

They have an interesting blurb on Company by Max Barry, I have not heard of it. The cover shows a doughnut with a bite out of it. It's about the corporate culture unveiled, Barry, an Australian once worked for Hewlett-Packard and according to the NY Times "The secrets and lies of corporate culture are explores with sharp, absurdist precision. Joseph Heller did it better, but not by much." –Janet Maslin. The Washington Post said it was "laugh out loud funny."

It might make a good comparison discussion between Heller and Barry. Apparently this book is reminiscent of (believe it or not) The Office, The Truman Show, Animal Farm and The Fountainhead (ET).

I think it sounds intriguing and it's been a while since we read two books in tandem. When's the last time you read Heller?

I like comparing books and treatments on the same topic.

Also another really fine looking book I never heard of is The Cliff Walk, by Don J. Snyder it's a memoir. Snyder, laid off from his job and having been rejected by 90 employers, wallows in despair and self pity. Desperate, he decides to take a job as an unskilled construction worker. "This is one of the most humorous and honestly told memories I have ever read." (Susan Garza of Garland Texas who gives her dad, 85, a new book to read each week). Going to look for that one, too. Sounds like the type of thing I really like.

Nickel and Dimed sort of thing.

Doggone it. Just in the time it took me to type this we've had 7 phone calls. I just said to my husband I will be so glad when this is over. It'll start again before November he said. Is there no way to stop this?

Can you switch your machine to automatically take messages, Ginny? Then you can sail thru', deleting everything you don't want to listen to. And perhaps you can, for the time being, change your ans. message to: "Please be warned. I will not vote for any candidate who keeps disturbing me with phone calls!"

...Babi

hahaha Babi

It IS taking them but the problem is it "announces them loudly in audio too," so in other words it says the number loudly 000-000-000 in this mechanical voice and (it's actually nice, that, so you can decide to run across the room and pick it up or not) and then takes it but as it's taking it the person speaks audibly so you can hear it too (as we can see lightning got the old answering machine and this one is from Hades). ahahaha

zero-zero-zero! zero-zero-zero zero!

Are you saying you DON'T get these calls? There's no use to tell a recording you won't vote for them ahahaha Tho I know somebody who DID put a message like that on his phone and ended up irritating everybody who called. ahahah it wAS funny. XXX does not live here. If you have called to talk to XXX no message will be received or realyed. XXX does not live here. hahahaaha did no good, the only people irritated were the ones who did want to talk to him.

Isn't there an old mystery called Wrong Number? hahahaa

Politicians drove me nuts too with their recorded messages before our primary last Tuesday. I think they use automatic dialers so it's all done by machine. The give away here is the slight pause after you answer before their recording kicks in. Politicians are exempt from the Do Not Call list.

Guess who make that exception??? I'm sure they made sure that wasn't included when they allowed the fed Do Not Call list to be established.

jane

Jane are you SERIOUS? They are exempt? ??!!?? Why? Who else is exempt? WE are going crazy here (crazier?)

zero--zero zero-- zero zero zero zero!!!!

I think I will see if I can turn off that sound, but then if I do happen to answer nobody will hear me squeak.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/dncalrt.htm

Placing your number on the National Do Not Call Registry will stop most telemarketing calls, but not all. Because of limitations in the jurisdiction of the FTC and FCC, calls from or on behalf of political organizations, charities, and telephone surveyors would still be permitted, as would calls from companies with which you have an existing business relationship, or those to whom you’ve provided express agreement in writing to receive their calls.

Thank you for that! Wow, I did not see the politicians in there when we signed up for that thing but no end of charities and companies we have EVER done business with, when you tell them they're not supposed to be calling you, respond stiffly by quoting that little bit of reading matter. I'll be darned. We signed up for the thing when it first got going and I don't remember seeing that, so that's good reading today! hahaha

You can still tell those exempt (because I have) to take you off their list and then they do have to comply, but you can't tell a recording to do that. And with the internet the way it is now, you're "doing business" with a lot of companies.

When we get calls like that we can dial *67 or something similar; that blocks calls from that number permanently.

Hello all

Has anyone read "Circle of Quilters" by Jennifer Chiaverini? I got it out on the weekend.

I just went into my library website and see that a tape I took back a week or two ago is still checked out to me. More problems! Oh dear.

Carolyn

I couldn't get into SN yesterday and when i come in tonight you all have been gabbin up a storm!!! Is it Alberto???

Walt Whitman is buried in Camden, NJ and my husband and two friends and i will be visiting his grave AND his house AND other places related to him on a Walt Whitman tour on Thursday afternoon. What do you want to know? I'll take a list of questions........oh-h-h-h-h , on second tho't, w/ this group? I may end up with a hundred questions that i'll have to put on my Palmpilot to take w/ me.............. .....uuuuhhhhh.......nevermind

(remember Lilly Tomlin?)

I WILL give you a synopsis when i get home.

Carolyn - I read Chiaverini - let me check my Palmpilot teehee, teehee.......

let's see......I read Cross Country Quilters, The Q's Apprentice and The Q's Legacy, haven't read Circle of Q's. I liked the others, not great, but a good read. But i may be biased by the fact that my mother was a quilter.

My book group discussed Angry Housewives Eat Bon-bons yesterday. What a great discussion! We talked alot about why we read and what we've read and what books that the group has read over the last 5 yrs that we each liked, BUT ALSO about the memories the book brought up - where were we when we heard MLK and RFK were killed; having young children; giving birth; becoming feminists, do we all make up a 'new' us in our 30's and 40's; and how great it feels to be able to just BE in our 60's, etc. It was a HOOT......i recommend it. My question was "is it a 'northern/Minnesotan' Ya-Ya Sisterhood?" What do you think?

what good conversation!

Robby, did you notice noone was the lest bit stiffled by your hint that we limit ourselves to talking about BOOKS!?!

We're having too good a time just as we are.......jean

haha Mabel, yes it's Alberto, starting early. I have my map in hand for the Alice Paul house when we come to Philly weekend after next, sorry I won't see you but we've both got schedules which won't quit, next time's the charm. I AM going by to see that copper beech tho, have become obsessed with them. It may be 8 am on Sunday because that seems the only time left in that weekend of excitements but if that's when it is, so be it, I really want to see it.

I like Whitman, I haven't read him in a long time, I'd like to read him sometime in our Books, in this company.

We're going to do Tennyson this November. We'll start with the surprising Lady of Shallot and move on to maybe....dare I say...Ulysses? Or whatever the group decides. At any rate, I love Tennyson and hope that as many of you as can will join us: he'll surprise us all. Talk about Feminist Manifestos!

Mrs S. I don't think you CAN block 000 numbers, I'll check it out, we do have Call Block.

I finished Sideways, I think, in retrospect, were it not X rated it would make a HECK of a book discussion. You could talk about IT for years. The subject matter is somewhat unpleasant but so well does he write (and he does write well) that he carries you along even tho he's TALKING about some very unpleasant things. I think he has a lot of talent, and I am looking forward to his next book, (which, unlike the main character, Miles, I hope is forthcoming).

Carolyn, uh oh, now they can get you electronically. I checked out a book about a week ago and the librarian said ah you owe a fine! WHAT? I said (am I the only one with nightmares about going to the library, trying to check out a book and hearing bells ring and seeing red flares going off? LIBRARY ALERT! LIBRARY DELINQUENT HERE! EVERYBODY TURN AND LOOK!!! ) Hahaha Apparently it was a book returned to the automatic slot late one time and they don't send out those notices but wait for you to try it again! Hahaha They got me!

Makes you want to call weekly and be sure you are OK or something.

Have started Lauren Weisberger's (The Devil Wears Prada) newest book, Everyone Worth Knowing. I believe she writes the funniest dedications in the business. It seems all the new books I'm reading lately appear to be skewering modern affectations, when you look at it: maybe it's just summer.

What are YOU reading this summer?

Mabel, please bring back some photographs.

Ginny, I have started "Snow Flower and the Secret Fan." I had a hard time putting it down last night. It's so sad. I knew about foot binding. I never knew the details of the procedure until reading this book. Also, I never knew how important the process was to the Chinese culture. It's amazing.

It's not a gloomy book. There is a growing friendship between two of the girls. The friendship, how it begins, is very beautiful. It makes me appreciate friendship. I am realizing that much time should go into making a friendship. Lisa See just goes from a different angle when telling about the Chinese culture. Lisa See, the author, fits our discussion, I think, in "Reading Around the World." Would her books fit in the discussion? Of course, this is not the place to talk about our readjustments of "Reading Around the World." Anyway, Lisa See is born in France. She writes about the Chinese Culture. I think there is some Chinese in her lineage. Here is a link.

Lisa See

Ginny, I am so excited about the Tennyson discussion. November seems like a long time a way. I guess it will take quite a bit of time to plan the discussion and finish other discussions. How do you DL's do it all?

Jean:-No one ever pays any attention to me. What's new?

Robby

jean,

How fortuitous!

I look forward to your synopsis when you've returned from your Whitman wanderings. heh I have only just started the book, and did a small bit of research yesterday on Whitman so I'm thirsty for info- I'm like a sponge so throw some water at me!

Re chattering- I think it's essential that any book place do have a spot where ot or meandering book talk tangents are allowed. At BN it's called a community room and I'm happy to have one here, with lots of other headins where you do have to be specific. . I think most of the chatter here is about books with the odd tangent, but never getting too far off track. To me, it's well controlled. (my $.02)

jean again- my f2f group did AHEB a few years back and we loved it. Not literary by any means but the most fun part was the reminiscing.

I'm getting geared up to start a new Trollope soon, too. I want to start the Palliser series, which begins with CAN YOU FORGIVE HER? Oh, and my, my, my I do think there's a BBC video of same, so I'll just have to order that too. That's how I amuse myself in the heat of summer. Thank God for reading, I say. I'd be awfully bored otherwise.

A few people have talked about MY ANTONIA. If anyone ever would like to read it together on the side here, as it were, I'm up for that.

I can't read an author's books consecutively, can you? I have to sort of cleanse my palate in between and then go back and sample some more of their fare. But reading them all in a row- no can do!

I like it when a book I'm reading motivates or prompts me to search out other sources or books along the same vein. I went on an art related books tear after reading GIRL WITH A PEARL EARRING. Now with SPECIMEN DAYS, I'll be discovering Whitman to an extent. I think this is one factor of a great book. It spurs you on to find out more. What makes a great book for everyone else?

Robby, I pay attention to you and many others do too. You have many important words to say especially over at the Durant discussion.

Scootz, I start with many books like a lot of dresses laid out on the bed to choose from and then, I settle down with two out the pile. Then, usually, one book takes me over and I can't let go. I am reading two now. Two is all I can handle.

Are you and the others trading good cooking recipes? Easy ones? I can't find where to go. I'm lost again.

And, what a surprise he is! Yesterday, he told me all about his cooking skills (he's a closet French chef) which he has honed over many years. We exchanged recipes while he worked away on all three floors including the screened porch and all the ceiling fans; and of course, I made him take a look at our Great Grandson, Clydelias,too! Shameless, I am shameless! This man's mother had 10 children and at last count, 60 grandchildren with a few great grans thrown in! Can you imagine! And the lady is still alive and kickin'! When she was raising her brood, she took them to church three X's a week! Whoa!

Ginny, my sweet!

About 8 years ago, a friend of ours showed me his newest phone toy which I promptly ordered. Its called the "Easy Hang Up". You do have to go to the phone to see if you want to take the call, but if you don't, you just push your Easy Hang Up button and this lovely male voice explains that you don't accept calls of this ilk and asks that you be taken off their list. You do not have to wait until the phone stops ringing to push the button! You do not hear him speak unless you pick up your receiver and listen. I love it, as he is more polite than I am, for sure! Try it, you'll like it! Here's a link: Easy Hang Up or if you have several extensions, there's always this one: The Phone Butler These devices give you much pleasure and a great chuckle as you push that button!!

Ahhh, summer books! I am still hiking my way through Lewis and Clark's expedition with several different books, 5 different titles plus an L&C cookbook, and enjoying it every minute. In between chapters, I have also read a couple of mysteries plus things like "Snowflower" and the Elizabeth Berg titles, funny biographies like Helen Hanff's books. Thirza? My gosh, she has been around forever and a good lazy read for summer.

My husband, who is having a really slow June with his health, is a voracious reader and I can't keep him supplied with enough thrillers, police procedurals, mysteries. No matter how long, he reads about a book every two days. So the day before yesterday, I suggested he try "London" by Edward Rutherford. Long ago, he read half of "Sarum" and gave up but this one may be different as he is already telling me about the history to be discovered. The book is about 1200 pages so I give it a week, maybe. He doesn't like taking a break and reading something light between chapters so now I must find another title. The library just completely defeats him as he can't remember favorite authors or titles that he has enjoyed. So guess who gets that job? I think maybe a non-fiction for a change. He did enjoy the Black Dahlia story.

I left this for you in the Non-Fiction folder but thought others might be interesed in it.

Hats, about Jefferson's Other Revolution

I think his other revolution concerns his deep interest in architecture. He certainly changed much about houses especially at Monticello. We toured it along with his estate about 20 years ago and my favorite new things were ????? Well, his bed in the wall of two rooms so he was present in each room at the same time.s Bed in Wall And, what was it about the compass or clock at the front door? And, his gardens?? My brain has left me! Here's wonderful link that I just found that you might enjoy: Jefferson's Monticello Innovations and Inventions Oh, there's explanations of each invention like the Great Clock Great Clock What a super site!! I want the revolving bookstand! Too pricey for my budget! Maybe I could get my hubby to build one for me. Sure would be great to have while I am so interested in the Lewis&Clark books! Have fun!!

Oh, I do love Monticello. It made me read all sorts of books about Jefferson and the property itself. It is lovely, inventive and a great house.. The other presidential house that is such fun is Teddy Roosevelts on Long Island. What a sense of play that man had. His children must have had wonderful childhoods.. Mt. Vernon always struck me as stiff.. We did go to Andrew Jacksons house in Nashville. It is lovely and calm and really dedicated to his Rachel.. A wonderful monument to a much loved woman.

jean, you mentioned your book club's remembering where they were when MLK and RFK were killed. But not JFK??? Or, with the age of this group, when FDR died?? (but maybe your book group is younger than that.

) I do remember where I was with the deaths of FDR, JFK, and MLK, but not RFK. Interesting.

I picked up some paperbacks at Wal-Mart yesterday to take to the beach: The Devil Wore Prada for me, and a couple of Elmer Keltons for John.

Ann, I love your window cleaner. Your story reminds of Eldin the painter on the TV sitcom Murphy Brown several years ago.

Mary Z

Wasn't that Eldon a stitch! Acted like he owned the place and was the resident psychologist to boot! I loved him!

I remember where I was for all of the above. I remember them lowering the flag at my elementery school when FDR died, waking up to the announcement of RFK asassination, grocery shopping when JFK was shot and killed, MLK???? hmmmm, memory dump again! Somewhere public but I can't remember the exact circumstances. The TV news pictures that night! Awful!

Ann,I love the quote under your name.

MaryZ, I remember where I was when JFK, MLK and Robert Kennedy died, also Jack Ruby and Oswald. What a time to live through. Do you think we will live through so many deaths that close together again in our lifetime? It almost seems unreal or surreal.

Novel readinng: Men prefer angst

I loathe the political recordings so much that I am considering starting a petition and delivering it to all of my politicians to tell them exactly how much I despise their campaign methods.

They are probably part of why only 25% of Californians (shame on us) showed up at the polls.

There's no point whatsoever in telling a recording that you don't take recorded calls, because recordings don't listen.

Kleo

Scootz -- A few people have talked about MY ANTONIA. If anyone ever would like to read it together on the side here, as it were, I'm up for that.

We read it here about 4 years ago. "My Antonia ~ Willa Cather ~ 7/02 ~ Great Books"

Mary Z--Perhaps you don't remember where you were when Bobby Kennedy was assassinated because of when he died. I was in Illinois at the time. Stayed up late to watch the California primary. After his speech, Kennedy was shot. Perhaps you were asleep?

Hats--I hope we never see a patch of assassinations like those in the 60's. I remember thinking that Doomsday was surely upon us. Again I was in Chicago at that time and I remember it all with absolute clarity.

Some replies to earlier posts.

Regarding Willa Cather: Several years ago our local book group discussed "Death Comes for the Archbishop", an absorbing book we all enjoyed tremendously. It shows how deeply Cather cared about the cultures of the Southwest.

ANN, a recent nonfiction deserves attention, I believe, but has not been mentioned, unless I missed it:
Rough Crossings: Britain, the Slaves and the American Revolution, April 2006, 475 pp., by Simon Schama,
yes, our Simon Schama of "Rembrandt's Eyes", who also authored a book about the French Revolution, and several more.

Schama effectively turns the American Revolution upside down: in his book it is the Crown that holds out the promise of liberty, and the patriots would take it away. "For Blacks," Schama reminds us, "the news that the British Were Coming was a reason for hope, celebration and action."

Schama's book is fair-minded and beautifully written. He does not pretend that the British, who oversaw their own brutal slave economy in the Caribbean, operated with clean hands. But for American slaves, the prospect of continued bondage in an independent America was no choice at all. That's why many cast their lot with the British who, knowing that most rebels were slave owners, declared the emancipation of the slaves.

The second half of the book is even more powerful as it follows the former slaves into exile after the war when thousands joined an exodus of white loyalists to Nova Scotia. Others shipped to Africa to establish a struggling township in Sierra Leone, where the settlers suffered years of illness and near-starvation. It was the first largely self-governing community of African Americans and at least a taste of the liberty that would not be offered them in this country until generations later.

I believe it would be highly instructive to make this book a future discussion here.

HATS, I'll answer your question on Lisa See's 'eligiblity' in the RATW folder.

That wasn't an event mentioned in the book, so i didm't mention it in my post.

Our local library f2f grp read both My Antonia and Archbishop about 10 yrs ago. Both made for good discussion.......

aaahhhhh Robby..........sounds like a TIC to me, i'd say you're fishing for a little flattery, ....o.k.....here tis, ........you know we all love you and depend on your smart leadership.........same to be said for all you DL's..........jean

I put your message about the book "Rough Crossings". Hope you don't mind. I wanted to make sure the DL's for non-fiction saw it. Sounds like a book worth perusing. Thanks a bunch for bringing to our attention.

Scootz: Re "I can't read an author's books consecutively."

For some reason I'm the opposite. Sometimes I'll just love a book so much I have to go right out and find another by the same author and try it. Sometimes I'll go through a whole series by the same author before I go on to read something else. I wonder if that is called obsessive/compulsive behavior?

Sometimes I get hooked on the topic of a book and will have to go and find other books about the same topic. And sometimes I'll be fascinated by a person's biography and will have to go out and find other biographies about the same person right away.

Marni

You're welcome, ANN. If Schama's book should become a proposed selection, I wold join the discussion. And good wishes for your husband, the vocarious reader.

Re RFK, Deems, that could be.

Death Comes to the Archbishop is the only Cather I've read. The first Elderhostel we did was in Grants, NM, and was about the pueblo tribes in New Mexico. Death Comes was one of the recommended readings for the program - to get an idea of the pueblos at that time.

marni, I'm like you. When I find a new-to-me author that I like, I want to read all of his/her books, preferably in chronological order. Then I'll start watching for new ones.

Colm Toibin won the IMPAC with The Master, a novel with Henry James as main character. I've been reading the NYTimes book section online. But I have the feeling someone else posted this before.

Apologies.

Yes, Rough Crossings: Britain, the Slaves and the American Revolution is an interesting book. There is actually a set of 3 books that came out in the past year about slavery in the Americas from a British voice that are all compelling reads. In addition to Simon Schama's latest book on British history, there are also two books about the Sommerset case, Though the Heavens May Fall: The Landmark Trial That Led to the End of Human Slavery by Steven M. Wise, an American lawyer and animal rights activist, I believe, and the other is Slave Nation: How Slavery United the Colonies and Sparked the American Revolution by Alfred W. Blumrosen, Ruth Gerber Blumrosen, Ruth G. Blumrosen.

I don't agree with all the authors on everything. However, when I studied slavery intensely in college, I studied it from an economics perspective. All of these authors use some of the same primary materials I studied to draw their conclusions (the legal cases, and the slave markets). Most of the authors are lawyers by profession, interested in human rights law or, in one case, animal rights laws. You can see their intense biases in their works, yet this does not detract from the value of each book.

It's good to see the subject won't go away.

Kleo

You can read it at http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2006-06-06-whitman-tours_x.htm.

I'm also interested in the fact that the cemetary where he is buried has graves of African-Americans who fought in the Civil War. Hope to be able to have a look at those too. Someone asked if WW was an abolitionist. I believe that i have read that that is so. It only makes sense based on his life's philosophy.I'll let you know. Guess i should be off to re-read some WW before Thursday........jean

Kleo and Mabel,your posts are really interesting. It's very interesting about the African-Americans buried in the same cemetery with Walt Whitman. Thank you for the link.

Thanks for the link, Jean. I'm learning about him as I go. What little I see of his poetry doesn't really appeal to me. I do know that slaves were employed on the family's farm when he was a kid.

Also, I've learned that LEAVES OF GRASS has been occasionally banned, which surprised me. Is this related to the group of poems called "Calamus"which has been taken as a reflection of Whitman's homosexuality. I'm guessing so but don't know.

We have had a horrendous two days here. An ex of my son's was drugged and raped and we have cared for her these last two days- especially my son. We got her safely on a plane home to her Mother yesterday. Not much sleep for anyone since Monday. Talk about man's inhumanity to man. For those of us who talked about evil in the Jekyll group, this would be it for me. Pure and simple evil. This has devastated everyone involved- especially her, who is in quite an awful state. Anyhoo, sorry to digress, but this is much in my mind. I see cases like this detailed on tv all the time- till it happens to some one you know and love, you have no idea really of the extent of trauma.

That said, I haven't gotten much done, reading or otherwise. But is there a particular poem about machines? The first novella is about machines speaking - I don't get this but it has to be some sort of reference.

My husband was delighted to see the new Bookmarks last night with all the sailing books. We have owned a sailboat for as long as I can recall and he's obsessed with it. So, he poured over the titles last night. I want to get that original THE BOUNTY MUTINY for him for Father's Day- it's old and actually written by Bligh, so don't know what my chances are.

In the "Have You Read?" section is a book called BENEATH A MARBLE SKY about the building of the Taj Mahal. Doesn't that sound intriguing? Rather like PILLARS OF THE EARTH, Indian style.

Scootz! So sorry for your son's ex, what a horrendous thing! Bless her heart and yours.

On the Bligh, do you mean your husband has not read the original Bligh? OH what a present and joy waiting for him! He will never forget it!

All of Bligh is reprinted except some of the Admiralty records, I think. I had not read it until about 10 years ago and I thought I'd never get over it, Bligh himself is like nothing else. Be SURE SURE SURE to get also his account of what happened when they threw him OFF that boat and he had to make his way in a rowboat, a feat of navigation which has apparently never been equaled. To this day I am intrigued by breadfruit.

I would be up for a discussion of Bligh's own words in 2007, there's nothing like THEM in this world.

And the building of the Taj Mahal does sound fabulous. There seems to be a sort of resurgence of the old books in reprint that a lot of us have not read. Good ones which should not be neglected and some publishers are tying to do something about it. If you get that book how about let us know how it is? I love books on India.

On the theme of reprints and "have you read," love that, A Common Reader seems to be reprinting what they call The Common Reader Classic Bestsellers and I picked up (because of my new interest in George V) Nicholas and Alexandra, by Robert K, Massie, originally published in 1967, won all sorts of awards, but just republished in a very handsome hardback edition (but cheap) in 2004.

Turns out this is the same book Rich in Rembrandt's Eyes was talking about as one of the best he ever read.

I know nothing about Russia, the Tsars, or anything else except the movie Dr. Zhivago and Anastasia, and I don't think I'm unusual there: you can't know or be interested in everything. I mean after all, we WERE the generation of the Cold Wars and the Cuban Missile Crisis, and a desire to know Russian history might not have been a primary interest of everybody. It certainly wasn't in me.

However I'm now reading one of the best books I have, ever. It's Russian history just come alive, it's magic, and in the process you learn about that tangled web of first cousins who ruled the world prior to WWII. Nicholas is portrayed with great sympathy, you can't help liking him, and it's so evocative, it's like being thrown INTO the middle of Dr. Zhivago! Same feeling, I recommend it very highly. It starts out in 1894 in Imperial Russia, how it got that way and who influenced it: fabulous reading, like a Faberge egg.

An interesting tidbit concerns how much George V of England and Nicholas II of Russia, first cousins, looked alike, so much so that at a wedding they were three times taken for each other with very humorous results.

It's hard to put down, actually. Reads like a novel. So far a GREAT read. Truth being stranger and sometimes more interesting, than fiction.

Ginny, you said :

Be SURE SURE SURE to get also his account of what happened when they threw him OFF that boat and he had to make his way in a rowboat, a feat of navigation which has apparently never been equaled

Where do I find that? I have an early doc appointment in an hour, am going to try and hit B&N on the way home to look for the Bligh account (it's a Penguin Classic) If you see this, could you please post and tell me where I find this account that you speak of. I'll try to get it also this morning if I can. I'll check back here before I leave. TIA.....

Wow. TWo topics that I love.. Bligh was a fascinating man and the story of his navigation and rescue from the longboat are absolutely fascinating. A very very strong man with definite ideas about his life and world. Then Nicholas and Alexandra is a wonderful book. I read it many years ago and I am really not fond of Russian history.. I read that and then reached out and read another book on Catherine the great.. In both cases, they wre talking of a world that is and was almost impossible for me to understand.

Scootz, oh golly here's what I can find in a hurry:

A Voyage to the South Sea by William Bligh, 1792, see the Project Gutenberg: Works by William Bligh The full title of Bligh's own account of the famous mutiny is: A Voyage to the South Sea, undertaken by command of His Majesty, for the purpose of conveying the bread-fruit tree to the West Indies, in his majesty's ship the Bounty, commanded by Lieutenant William Bligh. Including an account of the Mutiny on board the said ship, and the subsequent voyage of part of the crew, in the ship's boat, from Tofoa, one of the friendly islands, to Timor, a Dutch settlement in the East Indies. The whole illustrated with charts, etc.

Bookmarks will be in the know, perhaps it's titled by a new title for reissue!

Then there's Awake Bold Bligh which is his letters about this mutiny, I think. I don't know if they are included above, in A Voyage to the South Sea, or not.

I think this book A Voyage to the South Sea, in his own words is the perfect accompaniment to the Bounty Trilogy by Nordoff and Hall. It gives HIS own side of the story.

Yes I agree, Stephanie, it's amazing how the Bligh resounds after all these years, and it's SUCH a good tale. We discussed Mutiny on the Bounty (I think it was the Nordoff Hall first volume) here years ago, we actually heard from....gee....was it The National Maritime Museum? I no longer remember, but I'd love to read Bligh again himself. He's hard to beat.

I'm just blown away by Nicholas and Alexandra (did you see, I can't recall, The Lost Prince and the depiction of them in that?) You are right, the descriptions alone of the Russia of 1897 are unbelievable. Massie is one heck of a writer, I must look for more of his stuff, never heard of him!

Thanks Ginny!

Massie? Didn't he also write PETER the Great, or somesuch title? Never read it, alwats wanted to!

Scootz: I'm so sorry about your son's ex. What a horrible horrible thing.

The Bligh story sounds excellent. I'm going to take a look at that. I wonder if that would be something people on SeniorNet would be interested in discussing?

Interesting to see Bligh was only a Lieutenant when the incident happened.

Scootz, What a terrible situation. I feel very badly for her. She will need care for a very, very long time. How kind of you to help.

Thanks all for your concern.

marnie- I know I forgot to respond to something you put up in the past few days. I apologize for that. usually, if someone addresses me directly, I try to reply.

Ok, so I had to order the book, BN didn't have it. Ginny, I'll see how he does with this one before ordering the other one you recommend. Hub doesn't have much time to read but likes to collect sea stories for later, when he has loads of time.

I met my friend at BN and of course she recommended a few to me, and of course, I came home with two books. I hit Half Price too to get those. They are-

ARTHUR AND GEORGE and also SKYWARD, which Mona got me all pumped up about because I love birds. I, of course, had to tell her all about REDTAILS IN LOVE and she ordered that! We are a very bad influence on one another.

Oh marnie! now I recall what it was I wanted to reply to you about- the "obsession" factor. I think we might all come under that category. I don't need to read all of an author's works, but I am obsessed with books. Just in general. My son, when he was younger used to say to me, "But Mom, you already have books at home!" To which I would reply, "What's your point, Scott?" LOL

I definitely have an addiction and from time to time, I tell myslef. Ok, you WILL read five books from your shelf before you buy any more new ones. That has never worked. Not even once.

Scootz--What an awful thing. I'm glad that you were able to help your son's ex out for those important first days. Also glad she is with her mother. Poor kid. All the violence is not on T.V.

Maryal

Marni,

I'm always up for anything Bligh or mutinous. Yes, his voyage to Timor was an astonishing navigational act, that, the whalers, and Shackleton's being among the most well known desperate sea voyages in small boats.

We read and discussed James Michener's Tales of the South Pacific a couple of months ago in my on-line book club. I learned a few new things about the descendants of the HMAV Bounty's mutineers, more connections to Bligh, it seems.

The Bounty, as you Bligh fanatics know, was only his first encounter with mutiny. Bligh was also governor of New South Wales during the Rum Rebellion, the only successful coup of Australia's government.

NSW opened a prison colony some years after Bligh on a remote Pacific island called Norfolk Island probably in order to obtain lumber from the ancient and endemic Norfolk Island pine, Araucaria heterophylla for British ships. There were actually two prison colonies and both eventually failed, and there is a mutiny story about the second and a book about the second colony which surpassed Andersonville in horrors.

What I just learned in Tales is that after the second prison colony failed the British government offered the island to the descendants of the Bounty mutineers as the Pitcairn Islands were now too small for all of them. They stayed for a time, then about 3/4 demanded to be returned to the Pitcairns.

However, there's more to the tale. Bligh sailed with Captain Cook on Cook's third and final voyage. When Cook's ship returned to England Bligh wrote an account of this fateful voyage. Captain Cook was the first human to site and land on Norfolk Island.

We love funky coincidences and connections in our Lost Generation book club. For me, this was one of the funnest because I was studying the ancient family of trees to which the Norfolk Island Pine belongs, the Araucariaceae at the time we were reading this.

Kleo

That is so important. What an awful trauma.

Ginny - the relative (literally) entangelments of Victoria's grandchildren thru out Europe at WWI are amazing. There's an interesting book called "Grandmother of Europe," about Victoria and all of her descendants. Not only are grandsons in prominent positions - Wilhelm of Germany, King of England, but her dgts and granddgts are in royal houses all over Europe, Russia, Spain and Greece, e.g. It was a fun read for me. I had to make a graph to keep them all straight. ........jean

Scootz - how terrible for your son's ex! I can't imagine such a thing. I hope she physically recovers quickly. Her mental and psychological recovery will be slow, I'm sure. The warm and loving care of family members and friends like you will help a great deal.

jean and mary- I may have misled. This girl was an ex girlfriend, not ex wife- so sorry about that. My son has known her about a year, and they had just recently (ten days ago) decided to go their own ways. He feels terribly guilty.

Hopefully, she will get counselling at home, but it will be up to her. I spent a few hours on the phone with her Mom yesterday and she was to arrive home in the wee hours this morning. (Her brother actually flew here to Dallas to meet her and fly back with her since she could not do it herself, such was her distress.) She is of an age where she cannot be forced to do anything unless she chooses to. I am amazed at all she has had to go through already, and know now why so many cases are not reported. And because her memory of the event is not there completely, that makes it all worse. Time will tell and I am to be in touch with her Mom maybe tomorrow. The police DO have evidence against the perp, but a lot has to happen yet, and now she is far away from here. Who knows what will transpire? It's a terrible thing.

I won't clog up the board any further talking about this, so feel free to email me if you are interested. I'd be happy to send out an email in a day or two as to her condition,etc. I don't want to appear rude to those of you nice enough to be concerned but I know it's probably not the place to be talking about it.

Scootz, what a terrible thing your son's friend had to endure. I am sure all of us here want to hear of her recovery.

Interesting to see mention of Robert Massie again. I have not read Nicholas and Alexandra, but read Journey by Massie and his wife Suzanne about their son's battle with hemophilia. It was their research into this illness that led him to write N and A. The things that poor family (the Massies) had to endure. They had to battle school districts in order to enroll their child in public school. And there was one instance when they wanted to take him to a Broadway show and were told that use of the wheelchair would be impossible.

We've come a long way since then, thank goodness, but isn't it a shame it's been such a battle -- that's not over yet.

Kleo: You are so knowledgeable about Bligh, Pitcairn Island, etc. That's cool. I'm getting all excited about reading that Bligh journal or whatever it was that Ginny mentioned. I would even volunteer to be a DL for that one. I'll have to find out more.

I just finished Truman by David McCullough. I'm so happy. 1000 pages. Wow, it took me a long time. That was a whopper. A good one, though. Fascinating.

Is anyone writing any good modern fiction? I have not found a good book to sink my teeth into at the library for weeks! I have Teacher Man on request from the library but there is only two copies so goodness knows how long I will wait. I have been listening to some short stories by a young Maori writer on Radio NZ this week and I will try to find the collection at the library. Its good to have some home grown literature to read now and again. I have been listening to some very well written novels about the British Navy in WW2. I love the sea and boats and the novels are so well written and not all about the battles. I read my third one on the weekend and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I see Maeve Binchys Tara Road is going to be a film. I may go to see it.

Carolyn

Carolyn, did you mean writing, or reading? lol

Carolyn, I loved the book "Tara Road" by Maeve Binchy. I didn't know about the movie. How would it really feel to trade houses? I have stayed in condos on the beach. I have never had a person to stay where I live. Thanks for telling about the movie.

Talking about Bligh and Massie brings back so many fond memories. I read a lot about Victoria and all of her children. She literally populated royalty all over Europe. I had forgotten about the earlier Massie book about their son until it was just mentioned. I read that one, but after Nicholas.. I know I did not keep the Bligh material, but if we decided to take it on, I would go out and see if it is still available anywhere. I found him so fascinating. Sort of a lightning rod for all sorts of things.

Carolyn, you may want to check out this site in your quest for good modern fiction. It's about 5 women National Book Award Nominees a year or so ago. There apparently was a lot of criticism about the shortlist, although (see quote below) other readers were pleased.

Hanging Out with Joan Silber & Lily Tuck

"I think the people who thought these women were little heard of ought to read a little more widely. I sure knew who they were, and what a job it must have been to choose among them! it's the same old xxxx--if you aren't on the best seller list you're nobody. Well, please remember there are lots of us readers out here who actually LOOK FOR GOOD BOOKS and find writers some of you haven't heard of because of the homogeneity of reviewing and selling books."

Sounds kind of like what we do, doesn't it?

I'm with you Carolyn. There are plenty of us seeking good modern fiction, but the shelves at the library are crowded with the okay and the blah.

We did read a couple of great modern authors recently, though. Pamuk, the Turk, and Bone People by Keri Hulme. Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Hans Bol, Günter Grass, Tony Morrison, Ursula K. Le Guin, Naguib Mahfouz, Alice Walker, Ray Bradbury, Jonathan Franzen, Jhumpa Lahiri, Herman Wouk, Gene Wolfe, David Foster Wallace, Kurt Vonnegut, Thomas Pynchon, Steven Millhauser are some more great modern authors in the opinions of many.

They're there. Keep looking.

Kleo

Read Around the World is going to nominate a book to be discussed in October. Nominations will take place June 18 through June 28. If you are interested in reading books by authors who are not considered native to the US or England, come join us.

Read Around the World

I'd add Russell Banks to that list of Kleo's. I think he's a great writer.

For all of you who went to the beach and loved the loggerhead turtles and MAM's book I have discovered a new author. She has written a book called The Richest Season by Maryann McFadden. I got the book and loved it.

Today I visited a friend who showed me the book her f2f group was reading -- The Hemingway Book Club of Kosovo by Paula Huntley. Huntley accompanied her husband when he volunteered for an American Bar Association project in Kosovo to help create a new legal system. She volunteered at a language school and kept a journal of her experiences and those of her mostly Albanian students and others that she met. She photocopied a lone copy of "Old Man and the Sea" to use with her students. We had just been talking about "Reading Lolita in Tehran" over in RATW, so it was a surprise to see another book along the same lines, so soon.

The Richest Season sounds like a winner, Judy. And when are you going to Pawley's Island? There is also Pawley's Island by Dorothea Benton Frank, another southern story. They both sound like good beach books.

Pedlin I am ready any time. haha

Yes, I would put Russell Banks on my list. Add him away.

Scootz, you going to read Cloudsplitter with me some time?

Kleo

I'm thrilled. Our town library just re-opened after 1 1/2 years of renovation. I visited it today and found a history book of "Old Windsor" - our town in CT. I took it out. It's so interesting!

I found out that some of the Pilgrims started Windsor. Then some people from the Massachusetts Bay Colony tried to force out the Pilgrims. Then a group arrived in Windsor from England with a charter which said they owned it; its boundaries were Rhode Island on the east, north shore of Long Island on the south, Massachusetts 120 miles north up the Connecticut River on the north, and the Pacific Ocean on the west!

Windsor is not quite that large today!

I'm so glad my library's back!

Kleo-

I have read Banks' AFFLICTION, which I thought outstanding and then CONTINENTAL DRIFT( which I liked even better). Maybe one of these days we can squeeze in CLOUDSPLITTER. Don't know why that wouldn't be a good book for SN to discuss.

Yesterday, I watched the film "Everything Is Illuminated" and I just loved it. I laughed, and then I cried. The music is great and the acting superb- especially Elijah Wood.

Elijah's character goes to the Ukraine to try and find the woman who helped his grandfather escape the Nazis. Up until the end, it's very funny. Then the ending hits like the proverbial ton of bricks. Best film I've seen in a while.

I never read the book, but now I want to, and that rarely happens for me to do it in that order. His (Foer's) new book is EXTREMELY LOUD AND INCREDIBLY CLOSE. (that di=oesn't sound right but I think that's it) I need more coffee!

Pedln,that's a new title, "Hemmingway..." I bet it is a good one. I am watching "Il Postina." It is wonderful. It fits with our reading the poetry of Pablo Neruda. I have "Pawleys Island" on my reading list. I enjoyed "Sullivan's Island." Have any of you read "Zorro" by Isabel Allende? I haven't heard much about it. It seems like a good beach read. I am loving "Snow Flower and the Secret Fan" by Lisa See. It is very hard to put down. It is so different from "The Good Earth" and "Memoirs of a Geisha." Thanks for the recommendation, Ann. Scootz, I always see the Jonathan Foer titles. I have thought about trying one of the books.

A new Curious Minds discussion has started. It is about antiques and classics and, if you would care to join in, please use the link below

ANTIQUES

Bill H

"Everything Is Illuminated" by Jonathan S. Foer is not an easy read.
I was very depressed by the story of lost ancestors, although there certainly are
many hilarious scenes, as well. My daughter knows the author, which is unusual.
I had decided not to rent the movie, because the book was so difficult for me, but maybe
the movie is more upbeat. Is it?

as I said :

Up until the end, it's very funny. Then the ending hits like the proverbial ton of bricks. Best film I've seen in a while.

I learned something interesting reading the history book I just took out of our revamped library. You know the "y" seen in colonial texts? Such as in "Ye Olde Town Mill"? I always thought the "ye" was pronounced "yee." It's not. The "y" was a form of the Anglo-Saxon letter "thorn" and was pronounced "th." "Ye Olde Town Mill" would have been pronounced "The Old Town Mill."

I never knew that! Marni, thanks for a wonderful bit of word lore! I love words, and odd names, and their origins, and...well, never mind.

Which reminds me, 'hoosegow' came up on a TV show today, and I got to wondering where that word came from. I checked, and realized I had known, but forgot. It's from the Spanish 'juzgado', which got picked up in the Southwest as 'hoosegow'.

Babi

Matthew Pearl's Poe Shadow is now open in the Proposed section - on its way to the Coming attractions for September.

What I like about this author's work is the blend of literary characters and the mysterious problem-solving in his fiction. Matthew is a graduate of Harvard University and Yale Law School and has taught literature at Harvard and at Emerson College. A formidable combination for a mystery writer!

It is my understanding that the author is going to link our book discussion to his web site as he did with Dante Club. That can't hurt! Will link his web site to our heading once we move up to Coming Attractions.

Hope to see YOU there!

Here's a link to a site I'd never found before: Books suggested for reading by other authors. Plus all sorts of other lists. I was checking out Matthew Pearl's home page and linked here. Have a look:

Author's Book Lists

I often like books recommended by other authors better than those reviewed by critics, Mippy. I just saw that Matthew's Poe Shadow is #15 today on the New York Times bestseller list. How do they arrive at these placements, do you know? I know the Washington Post has a simple formula - it's based on the number of books sold in local bookstores the previous week.

Well, we made our trip yesterday to the Beinecke Rare Books and Manuscripts Library at Yale. It was pretty exciting. We saw close up one of the few Guttenberg Bibles left in the world. It was beautiful. The black print, in Latin, was made from the first movable type, But some of the capital letters were handpainted, very large, of a variety of colors, and painted with curlyqueues (sp?), flowers and leaves, etc. The Bible was donated by the Harkness family. (Stephen Harkness was John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil Co. partner.)

Also on exhibit were two of the bound volumes of the double elephant folio of John James Audubon's Birds of America. It was huge! One was open to the page with the ivory-billed woodpecker and the other was open to the page with the passenger pigeon.

There was a huge exhibit of Rachel Carson. Her family must have donated her possessions to Beinecke. There were many family photos, papers she wrote in elementary school, pictures she drew, even one of her report cards. There were newspaper articles about her work, speeches, her books. She was such an important person in the movement to save our environment. She helped to stop the use of DDT and other pesticides. I didn't know it, but she is considered one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century. I've never read "Silent Spring" but now I feel I have to read it.

Marni, what a memorable experience. I would like to see all that you have mentioned.

"Well, we made our trip yesterday to the Beinecke Rare Books and Manuscripts Library at Yale."

Marni, were all of these exhibits at the same library, the Library of Yale?

Marni ~ Your posts were very interesting and informative!
Rachel Carson was indeed a voice in the wilderness.
I read Silent Spring years and years ago. I received it as a gift; at that time it was one of the few hardback books I owned, and I still have it ... somewhere.
She predicted that DDT in the environment would cause cancer and other health problems, and tragically, her untimely death in 1964 was from cancer. She was a member of the Audubon Society in Maryland which was not a chapter of National Audubon, to which I later belonged. In our newsletter, there were several articles about her. She was truly a great writer. Here's a link:

Rachel Carson

DDT Today

And another: DDT Ban

Pesticides-Migratory Birds

Is DDT still the most dangerous chemical?

The last link is to my question and look what I found--many pros and cons. What I admire about Rachel Carson is that she called our attention to destroying our world with the magic of chemicals. She was not wrong. We are fouling our own nest!

but i left my notes w/ my friend, so as soon as i get them back i will give you a synopsis. The most interesting thing was to see his house - small row house - w/ much of the furniture that was there being his. We saw the room and the desk where he wrote the final version of "Leaves of Grass." Fortunately, he lived in a period of the beginning of photography, so they have pictures of what the rooms and his garden looked like, so they have replicated a lot of it, and were given a lot of his furniture that had gotten dispersed.......jean

Hats: Re "Marni, were all of these exhibits at the same library, the Library of Yale?"

I think there are a number of libraries at Yale. The Beinecke Rare Books and Manuscripts Library at Yale is a special library for rare books and documents. The collections are maintained in very special environments because they are so rare. It seems that some of the collections are placed on exhibit on the main floor for a period of time so the public can view them under glass. The exhibits are changed. The Guttenberg Bible and the Audubon books are specially encased and on view. There are a number of security guards posted.

The remainder of the collection can be viewed in the Reading Room during certain hours to certain people. You must provide appropriate ID and request in advance what you wish to view. There are no weekend hours for this viewing.

We went down to check out the place partly because my husband's great grandfather's papers and some paintings are part of the collection. My husband's uncle apparently stole some of them from others members of the family (including my mother-in-law) and donated them to the Beinecke Library. Well, they're in a wonderful library, I must say.

Some other books on display were pre-900 A.D. Gospels in Arabic and in Ethiopian (I think) with wonderful illustrations. They were on parchment or velum.

jean,

Thanks for reporting in. I'll be anxious to hear the full details when you get your notes. Did you take any pictures yourself?

I fear we are also fouling our own nests with food additives and preservatives. Our milk now lasts two weeks! The milk vendor told me its full of preservatives. I have been very interested in reading all I can get my hands on about additives and preservatives. I believe there is a big link between these chemicals and the rising number of children diagnosed with ADHD and hyperactivity. I have seen the difference in one of my grands when they eat processed foods and the change in behaviour afterwards. Its frightening its like Jekyll and Hyde.

carolyn

I put my name on the reserve list for Larry McMurtry's new book, Telegraph Days, when I first read about its coming out. Lo and behold, I was first on the list, AND it's already come in to the library. I'm going to pick it up in the morning. Yea!

Mary Z - What a coincidence! I was just going to head to the library tomorrow to pick that book up! I hope it's good. I love most of McMurtry's books.

I am reading the last book by Julia Child and her Grandnephew.. It is great, not a cookbook, but really a love poem to her husband, France and cooking. I ration myself to so many pages a day, because I dont want it to end. What a funny funny woman who adored her Paul.

I have seen that book. I am glad it's a good one.

Hats, this is the nicest book. She is very upfront about emotions and how she fell in love with France, but did not care for Italy or England. I love her feelings about food and cooking. She is also helpful in that she says.. never apologize for cooking. Sometimes it will be good and sometimes not, but always act as if it were perfect.. Because of course like all cooks, I tend to have some whoppers of badness upon occasion. Nice to know she did too.

Stephanie, it goes on my list. Is the exact title "My Life in France?" I am not sure. I want to put it on hold.

I definitely make some smelly, gooey mistakes while cooking. That's so good, stop apologizing. After all, cooking is a heart thing. We do it because of love for family and friends.

Yes, my life in france is it..

Ditto to your posts, Stephanie, the Julia Child book was wonderful!
After my husband and I finished it, we loaned it to our daughter.
I also tried to read it slowly ... to savour it ...

Oh I am going to order that Julia Child book right now. Since I have had cataract surgery on my right eye I am able to read again. I can just imagine how much I will read after I have the left eye done too.

I will be starting my reading of " Will in the World" very soon. It is the July selection for my face to face book club .

Joan Grimes

Joan Grimes, It is good to hear from you. I am so glad to hear the surgery ended well.

Thanks Hats. I appreciate that.

I am really getting back into reading.

Joan Grimes

"I fear we are also fouling our own nests with food additives and preservatives. Our milk now lasts two weeks! .... I believe there is a big link between these chemicals and the rising number of children diagnosed with ADHD and hyperactivity."

I don't know about that, but it always slays me those who think that these chemicals designed to act biologically (preserve milk, a biological substance, add flavor to food, a biological substance, protect skin, a biological substance) can't possible have any deleterious impacts on humans, biological organisms. It simply thwarts logic to conclude that all biological reactions must be positive, desired, known, and limited to one outcome (it preserves milk only, doesn't do anything else to milk, and doesn't react biologically with any part of humans). Sigh.

Kleo

The biological substances that worry me are the hormones that they add to milk and chicken and red meat. We have been warned already about them affecting our young girls and when their menses begins. Causes early menses in some girls. And, heaven only knows, what pesticides are doing to our bodies.

Joan Grimes--I'm so glad to hear you are pleased with your new vision. And I hope the second eye will be done soon. It's wonderful when they are both done. I have glasses now only for driving--and I can pass the test without those, but I'm used to being able to see Waaaay down the road. Reading will be so much fun for you again.

Congratulations on the great outcome on your cataract surgery, Joan. I know you're now eager to get the other one done. Enjoy!

Joan, I have Will in the World, but haven't read it yet. A Project for my retirement was to read all Shakespeare's plays and read the available commentary about them. I've collected some gut still have to get the Bloom book and the Asimov book. And, of course, the plays themselves. So I'm eager to hear about Will in the WOrld. Please give us updates.

I am about to do something I've wanted to do for years, bookwise. I am about to sit down and begin Helen Hooven Santmyer's AND LADIES OF THE CLUB. It promises to be a long, hot summer and I thought this would wile away the hours on those hot afternoons. It's almost 2000 pages, which makes it the longest book I have ever attempted.

All the reviews on amazon are raves, comparisons made to GONE WITH THE WIND and other timeless novels. I'm a bit intimidated but ready to take it on. Wish me luck!

AND LADIES OF THE CLUB

Hey don't laugh but I am reading lots of naval war stories by Alexander Fullerton. My dad was on some of the boats mentioned in his novels and was sunk in three of them. Reading these novels has made me understand my dad and his problems more. The times he went through were just horrendous. One time he was in the water for 24 hrs with sharks circling. He still has shrapnel in his leg, He also spent time in an American submarine. He was a career serviceman and entered naval training school at about 13 years of age. He was educated by the Navy up to Matriculation and was in the Royal Navy for 15 yrs. He was an asdics operator which meant his job was to listen to the sonar to pick up submarines underwater. Dad met mum when he came out here as a tutor in our Naval college teaching the new technology to our young ratings. I am glad I have accidentally found this author and I am reading his books.

carolyn

Scootz, I remember reading Ladies of the Club when it came out some years ago. I didn't think it was intimidating and as I recall I read it fairly quickly. She wrote another book that I read soon after. I think it was written prior to Ladies. I didn't think it was as well written.

Carolyn, I've written Alexander Fullerton's name on my list for looking. My Dad was in the U.S. Navy in WWII and my husband was a 20 year career Naval Aviator. After I saw the film, Master and Commander, I read all 20 of the Patrick O'Brien Naval novels. I found them to be fascinating. Sue

Sue: I did exactly the same thing after I saw "Master and Commander" except I started with the Horatio Hornblower series first, per my dad's advice. He was in the US Navy, too. I was so sorry when I finished my last Patrick O'Brian! So good!

Alexander Fullerton is a very good writer. I am surprised I have enjoyed the books that I always thought were for men only!

carolyn

Sue,

Good to hear from some one who has gone before me on this trek! I looked up the author last night and saw that she did write other things. I had thought this was her only book. I read just a tad but hope I get into the characters soon.

Scootz, have fun on your summer journey. I am sure you will enjoy it. I would like to read it one day.

Marni ~ Wow! Liking the same authors and books continues!
Patrick O'Brien's series, with Captain Jack Aubrey, are among my very, very favorite historical novels. For anyone tempted to start the series, try to find the first volumes and read them in order to get the full panorama. The series is deeply developed regarding the British and European cultures of the early 1800s.

I thought the movie Master and Commander was rather awful. It took 2 or 3 of the books, and
mashed the plots together to make the movie the length they wanted.

I also really like Forester's Horatio Hornblower books, but have only read 3 or 4 of them.
They are entertaining and fine, but not as addictive as those by the late O'Brien.

Marni, I am excited about the Patrick O'Brien series. I have always heard of it. I never had the nerve to try one of his books. I have just put "The Golden Ocean" on hold. I can't wait to pick it up.

Master and COmmander, for me, was too taken with Aubrey and there was not enough Maturin. I guess its hard to do it any other way when Aubrey is Russell Crowe. I fell in love with tales of the sea when I was about 12. There was an author, first name Howard, who wrote such exciting books about sailing ships that I've always hankered for a sailboat. Fullerton's name is now on my endless list of authors-to-be-read.

Pease? The Howard author?

Hats ~ Oh, my. Golden Ocean is not one of his super, best books; however, it is indeed fun, so do read it.
And let us know what you think!
Here's a little about The Golden Ocean by Patrick O'Brian, paraphrased from Amazon:
[It is] a precursor to the Aubrey-Maturin series ...with... excitement and rich humor ... and tapestry of historical detail. Peter Palofox, son of an Irish parson, sets out on the voyage of a lifetime when he seeks his
fortune as a midshipman with Commodore Anson.
If anyone wants to start the Captain Aubrey series, I believe Vol. 1 is entitled Post Captain.

Mippy,please give me a recommendation. Where should I start? With which one?

Deems: Yes! I couldn't remember the last name but it was Howard Pease. Thank you. And now for something completely different: I am experimenting with my Ipod for audio books. I bought (7.95) The Heidi Chronicles; it was qquite an experience listening to this play. I hadn't ween it or read it so my mind was a blank canvas. The sound was excellent, and the play is very moving. Becoming more bold, I am now downloading a free book from Salem Public Library: Elizabeth Peters' Dark Green Velvet. It will reside on my computer for 2 weeks. I will transfer it to my Ipod and will see if it will disappear in two weeks. The software the library provides allows the digital book to be burned onto CDs; I will test to see whether this record automatically ends in two weeks also. The "book" is seven plus hours, the download is approximately one plus hours. Stay tuned.

Mippy, I hope you don't mind that I've taken your phrase and turned it around, as I announce a new book discussion for August. It's about the life, and death, of one called Vishnu. A happy story in some ways, but then it takes place in Bombay, and not in Calcutta. Bombay is after all the home of Bollywood moviemaking, which is transforming India as quickly as Hollywood changed America.

But I don't want to give away more than is in the book. Welcome all who would like to help in discussing the mysteries of this one.

Mrs. Sherlock--I love listening to books on my iPod. Currently, the book is Toibin's The Master which just won the IMPAC award. The only problem is my daughter got hooked on it too (on a trip) and now I have to wait for her to be around to listen. We are halfway through.

My daughter is a member of Audio and can download several books a month, but they aren't free. Once she has downloaded them, she can put them on the iPod at any time. The advantage to Audio is that they have many many books and they do a pretty good job keeping up with recent publications. They have both abridged and unabridged, the one we always get.

Maryal

I saw this link on the Poetry page, AOL giving Athena2 and SeniorNet a boost.

Athena2 and SeniorNet

What a wonderful article. Thanks for calling our attention to it Pat w.

Joan Grimes

I am reading a book by Alexander Kent now, about the days leading up to and into the War Of Independance. Of course I am reading it as written from the British perspective but its another sea going yarn and just the information about the customs of the time and the ships of the time is fascinating.

The only thing that could put an American off is that those of you who trace your roots back to the Mayflower will probably get incensed while reading the book! I see it from a different perspective. You see we never fought for our Independance. We got it by diplomatic means because we are a newer country and not settled until the 1800s. We became a sovereign nation after the second world war.

It is really cold here and its a good time to really get stuck into reading on those long cold afternoons and evenings.

Carolyn

SCOOTZ, I remember when "The Ladies Club" came out, and there was quite a bit of talk about it, primarily, I think, because the author was well up in years at the time. I was interested in reading it, but like you, I didn't feel I had the time to get into a book that size. (This was back when I had kids in the house!)

Let me know what you think, If you agree with Sue that it's not going to take forever and is worth the time, I may give it a try, too.

Babi

I forget who wanted to know the order of the Patrick O'Brian books. I don't think Post Captain is first, but I've misplaced my list. Go to the P. O'Brian web page--I found it by googling his name. It has the Aubrey-Maturin novels listed in order. I think Master and Commander was the first, but am not sure. I wasn't able to read them in order as they were being taken out by a number of people when I was reading them from my library. Sue

babi-

Yes, Helen Hooten Santmyer was 88 when she wrote LADIES. Isn't that awesome? My Mom is 87 in August and could never achieve such a feat. It boggles my mind, actually.

Deems: I will check out (pardon the pun) Audio. I didn['t complete the download since my 'puter quit before it finished. I've reset it so that it doewn't automatically quit, but will download at night. The Peters book took much longer than I expected, more like two plus hours. Thanks for the info about Audio. Sounds (punning again) the prices. One thing about the library, it's free!

Mrs Sherlock, is it free also for non-American? I am most interested! If yes, what is the URL? Tnx. Bubble

I'm glad so many out there like the Patrick O'Brian series. He really is a storyteller and the pairing of Aubrey and Maturin was his masterstroke because they complement each other so well and he manages to build up their relationship through the series. Good stuff.

Kiwi Lady - You brought back memories for me when you mentioned Alexander Kent. I read him long years ago and loved him at the time so might go and revisit him sometime soon as I love any sea story. Alastair Maclean wrote some yarns about the sea - I have a collection of his short stories all about ships on the high sea. Anyway hope you enjoy Kent - you might also like to try Douglas Reeman - his are chiefly about Navy during WWII which would be closer to you Dad's time - And there is always Joseph Conrad of course, but his are different.

Thanks, Sue(Spring) for correcting my error on Patrick O'Brien:
Master and Commander is before Post Captain

Bubble: it's free for cardholders who must be residents of Marion County. The Oregon State Library also has downloadable audio books. Will keep you posted. Have you tried your local library? This method is so much cheaper for the libraries that I'm sure more will be doing it.

Thanks Mrs Sherlock. Here nothing is digital nor free as yet, except for the blind. I did find some in project Gutenberg, in the old classics. I have Jane Eire, The Secret Garden, The black Tulip, Michael Strogoff on my palm, but nothing very modern.

Bubble: I read The Black Tulip (by Dumas) last year. Loved it. I got on a big Dumas kick and read a number of his books. Have you read Queen Margot? It's about Marguerite Valois, whose mother was Catherine de Medici. Marguerite married Henry of Navarre who became Henry IV of France. I loved that book!

Hats: Here's a link to the order of the Patrick O'Brian series by order of publication:

http://www.patrickobrian.com/am_chrono.htm

If I remember correctly, he wrote a couple of them out of order. Towards the end, he went back and wrote about Aubrey and Maturin when they were younger?? Is that right?

When I read the first O'Brian, after having read the Hornblower series, I had to adjust to all of the detail about ships. It was a bit overwhelming in the very beginning. But I got used to it quickly. So, don't let that part put you off.

Marni

Marni, thank you! Now you and Bubble have gotten me interested in Dumas' books. I have never heard of "The Black Tulip." I would like to read "Queen Margot" too. I love Historical Fiction. Any other good book titles?

Marni, I don't even see "The Golden Ocean" on this list. I am going to take "The Golden Ocean" off hold and put the first one on this list on hold.

Oh, I am so excited! I feel like this is going to be a fun adventure. "Master and Commander" is just what I need for the summer. Great!

Marni I have read all of Dumas=father and Dumas=son too. The 3 musketeers of course, and 20 Years later. The count of MonteChristo. They are all historical and full of action. The black tulip was one of the "quieter".

Hats, do you like action books, with duels, pursuits, intrigues?

I remember reading "The Black Tulip", oh, so long ago. Jane Eyre, too, long ago. "The Secret Garden" I read was for young readers, and enchanting story which has been made into a movie at least twice, and I think three times. It may be a different 'Secret Garden', of course.

Michael Strogof I don't recognize, BUBBLE. Is that the title or the author?

Babi

Gumtree - Thanks for the suggestion! I really am enjoying the sea faring stories. I love the sea and boats. My late husband and I revolved our life around boats and boating when the kids left home. We spent more time on the marina than at home. LOL! I really can visualise the storms etc and hear the creaking of the mast, rope and sails. Just love being reminded of it! My son has a huge fast boat but it is not as appealing to me as a yacht or the classic launches my husband restored over the years.

Carolyn

Add me to those who loved the "Master and Commander" books. But be sure to read them in order.

Carolyn: Sounds like you had a wonderful time on the water! I grew up on the water in a navy/submarine town and every time I go on a boat I get seasick. I just don't care to go for boat rides (except for our Houseboat on SeniorNet, of course!). But, I love reading stories of the sea.

I ordered the William Bligh "Mutiny on H.M.S. Bounty" at the library. I'm going to go through it to see how it reads. Ginny loved it and it sounded really cool. I read a review of it online that said the writing wasn't very good but the story was so amazing that it was really good. I was thinking that if it was so good it would be an interesting selection for a discussion.

Most Kiwis love the sea. After all we are island dwellers. I am surrounded by water where I live on the Auckland isthmus. My kids pined for the sea when they lived overseas.

Carolyn

You're so lucky to be near so much water. We moved away from the shore and I miss it a lot. I love to just sit and look at the water and listen to the waves. It's the most relaxing thing in the world.

Such a nostalgia trip reading some of the recent posts. Dumas was a favourite of mine when young. Dumas fils wrote lots of plays and is best remembered for 'The Lady of the Camellias' which Verdi and his librettist took up for 'La Traviata' A couple of years ago I was disgusted when I bought a new DVD of Traviata and found the cover was illustrated with Tiger lillies instead of the Camellias. PAH!

marni, there was a Bounty discussion on SeniorNet a few years ago. Source material included any books about the Bounty. John participated, even though he's not a usual SeniorNetter. The group talked about the Nordoff & Hall book, Mutiny on the Bounty, and Bligh's book, plus some others. I'm sure it's in the archives somewhere.

I hope it's ok to step aside from books to talk about opera as this is also a film:

La Traviata by Verdi is on my list of top ten favorite operas.
Most DVDs of operas have been disappointing, but this is the exception.
We found a DVD version with the young Placido singing the tenor lead. The female lead was an unknown singer. Really outstanding!

My son loves Classical music. He loves La Traviata and La Boheme. I am not familiar with these pieces of music. I love Smooth Jazz. In my younger day, I loved The Four Tops and the Temptations.

Now I am a beginning to ask my son questions and listen to what he likes.

I do and did love Leontyne Price and Marian Anderson.

I am going to look at the Mutiny on the Bounty Archives.

maryz

I see that a Bligh discussion is on the proposed list, date undetermined. I wonder if Ginny put that there? I'm interested because I did get my husband the BOUNTY MUTINY by Bligh for Father's Day. But I saw the Nordoff book at Half Price for a very good price.

Does anyone know what text will be used in that coming discussion? Should I grab up the Nordoff book? Where's Ginny, I miss her a lot?

Scootz, I didn't realize there was a new Bounty discussion proposed. It was interesting in the older one how inaccurate the Nordoff & Hall book is (the one we all learned by and on which the movie was based). It seems to have been written with the intent of making Christian look like the hero, and Bligh the bad guy. And this was not necessarily the case.

Thanks Maryz- I at least know NOT to bother getting the Nordoff book, then.

I miss Ginny too. I do hope she is enjoying herself while she's gone.

I just discovered my copy of "The Count of Monte Cristo" is abridged. It's only six hundred and eighteen pages. Others on Amazon are one thousand and one hundred pages. I don't want the abridged copy. All of this time I thought my copy was unabridged. I don't want it from the library. I can't read it in four weeks.

Ginny is off to the American Classical League Conference in Philadelphia, PA. She'll be back online by July 1.

The Drawing Board just lists things that the Discussion Leaders are thinking of offering. I maintain that listing, but I've not been given a definite date and I don't know that a definite text has been considered. IF it comes to be a discussion, it'll be listed in the Proposed area, and I'm sure the DL will let everyone know what text is recommended. In the meantime, it's in the "planning" stage only.

jane

Thanx, Jane- much appreciated.

The series by Charles Nordhoff and James Norman Hall is as much a part of the story of the mutiny on the HMAV Bounty as the settlement in the Pitcairns, the various resettlements, and the films. That Bligh was not the least bit at fault is a current and popular rewriting of the events.

Bligh's story has been available for longer than the Nordhoff and Hall book.

How inaccurate is the Nordhoff and Hall? Based solely on Bligh's account? Based on accounts completely favorable to Bligh? I think there's a lot of leeway for debate here. However, Nordhoff and Hall wrote a work of fiction.

And when there are two sides to a story, and we look at the story from modern eyes, we have a tendency to go all behind one side and nothing behind the other. Isn't it possible that Bligh and the mutineers were partially right? Does it have to be that Bligh's account is 100% accurate in portraying himself to the crew? I don't know anyone who is capable of being 100% accurate in their self-portrait.

Also, Bligh should be put in his historical content, how ships were at the times, Bligh's past experience on ships (his sailing with Captain Cook should be looked at, how Cook ran his ships, what happened to Cook), and his future experiences with mutinies should also be weighed.

I just finished reading Herman Wouk's The Caine Mutiny. Between it and the film, I realize that Wouk based Captain Queeg on what is probably the complete historical account of Captain Bligh, except for the battle scenes. This doesn't mean that Queeg=Bligh. I mean that Wouk obviously researched Bligh, extensively.

I disagree that the Nordhoff and Hall can be completely dismissed because of its power in popularizing the mutiny. And Bligh doesn't get to tell the whole story. If you dismiss Nordhoff and Hall completely, after all they wrote fiction, who tells Christian's story?

Again, the later events in each man's lives have something to say about them.

I think it's a complex story worth looking at in the whole and not making easy or snap or advance judgments about.

Kleo

The text being used is Captain Bligh's Journal, according to the post. I assumed it would be the on-line book of the entire journey written by Bligh. It's often published as just part, An Account of the Mutiny on HMS Bounty, not what it was called by Bligh. The Bounty mutiny is part of the entire book Bligh wrote about his journey.

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/15411

Kleo

I didn't realize a SeniorNet had already taken place discussing the Bligh journey and the mutiny. Ginny recently mentioned how fabulous Bligh's own written version of the story was. I had never read it and thought it sounded like a good idea for a discussion. I volunteered to be DL for a discussion. That's why it's on the list.

I searched for books available in libraries and the web for Bligh's own journal and kept coming up with The Mutiny on Board H.M.S. Bounty: The Captain's Account of the Mutiny and His 3,600 Mile Voyage in an Open Boat (Paperback) by William Bligh. So that's what I was considering.

But it sounds as though a Bligh account was part of Bounty discussion that has already taken place on SeniorNet. So I'll ask that the idea be taken off the drawing board - unless people are interested who didn't have a chance to participate in the other discussion. I'll just go ahead and read the book because the library has ordered it for me.

Here's the SeniorNet Reader's Guide. It includes a bibliography of books used for the discussion:

http://www.seniornet.org/php/readerguide.php?GuideID=14&Version=0&Font=0

Here's the book I was considering on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1589762282/002-3946775-1633657?v=glance&n=283155

Marni

Here's one of the reviews of the Bligh Account:

"From the Horse's Mouth makes this a Must Buy!, July 13, 2003 Reviewer: Mendicant Pigeon "Mendicant Pigeon" (pdx, or United States) - See all my reviews

You are going to buy this book, of course you are. How can you not, for it is the actual book written by the notorious Capt. Bligh himself. If you are the least bit interested in the voyage that became the Mutiny on the Bounty and its aftermath, you've got to get to it. This book is fascinating not so much because of the description of the mutiny because Captain Bligh surprisingly has very little to say on the subject. No, you'll find this fascinating stuff because it allows one a glimpse into life in the South Pacific hundreds of years ago, and how miserable a castaway crew can become. You will also be able to form your own opnions about the sort of man Captain Bligh was. It is an interesting and challenging task to do so, however, because the man is careful to conceal most of his personality and emotions behind a rather dry and unimaginative journeyman's description of this adventure. Actually, it is this mechanical and rather bloodless recitation of facts surrounding what was a most terrifying and terrific adventure that clues one in that Captain Bligh, despite being an extraordinary seaman was certainly obtuse and even a bit of a creep (pompous ass, at the very least); at least he made my skin crawl at times. He also caused me to marvel at his many skills and tenacity (orneriness?), and even he was unable to completely suppress his emotions and allow himself free rein to personalize a few of the incidents that occured along the way. Few people could have accomplished his feat, that is to sail more than one thousand miles across the ocean in a small wooden boat filled with a hopeless and starving crew always teetering on the brink of disaster. It's also funny that Bligh turned up in all sorts of places around the globe in his life time and one finds him sprinkled throughout history. Did you know, for instance, that he commanded a ship under Lord Nelson in at least one of that man's most famous battles? He also accompanied the famed Captain Cook on one of his famous voyages which is how he got the job on the Bounty. I've ranked this only four stars because the book is really not a joy to read, Captain Bligh's skills most certainly lay in the nautical world. In this day and age, he probably would have found a ghost writer to lively up his self. Yet, this book is essential grist for the mill of Bounty hunters."

kleo- Don't fret so. Not good for your BP.

My husband would NOT be interested in reading fiction, and that's why I dismissed that Nordoff book.

marni- I'm interested in the proposed discussion, (even though it was done before, I'm new) and I guess that's you that's doing it. I misunderstood after Ginny said something about it. I won't buy anything yet till I am sure which book you want to use.

The one I got for my husband is NOT the one you have on the amazon link, but one that is paired with it- the Penguin Classic, THE BOUNTY MUTINY. Can there be any more about this event? Good grief! It's all new for me, so whichever one we do will be intersting if it's factual.

here's what Ginny recommended some time back when I asked-

A Voyage to the South Sea by William Bligh, 1792, see the Project Gutenberg: Works by William Bligh The full title of Bligh's own account of the famous mutiny is: A Voyage to the South Sea, undertaken by command of His Majesty, for the purpose of conveying the bread-fruit tree to the West Indies, in his majesty's ship the Bounty, commanded by Lieutenant William Bligh. Including an account of the Mutiny on board the said ship, and the subsequent voyage of part of the crew, in the ship's boat, from Tofoa, one of the friendly islands, to Timor, a Dutch settlement in the East Indies. The whole illustrated with charts, etc.

This is the one my hub would love, I'm sure.

Don't worry, Scootz, I didn't fret, and my blood pressure is just fine. Merely commenting upon your dismissing the Nordhoff and Hall based on what someone else said about it, as your post indicated. My post was not just about your dismissal, though, it was about the book and the whole of stories built up about the mutiny.

And who but Bligh is there to contend there is no fiction in his account?

Marni, I'm up for it, still. There are a couple of new books on it, too.

Kleo

Scootz: I found the Project Gutenberg book - A Voyage to the South Sea by William Bligh. Thanks for the info!

I found the paperback for sale at Barnes and Noble, but it's very expensive - $36.99

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&isbn=1421949903&itm=10

I'm going to download it from Project Gutenberg and see how long it is and check it out. I wonder what is different about the book compared to Mutiny on Board HMS Bounty by Bligh that I did find in the library since they are both by Bligh. I'll compare them when I get the library book.

Barnes and Noble also sells Mutiny on Board HMS Bounty by Bligh. The hardback is $21.35

Kleo: Thanks for the info that there are new books about the Bounty subject.

I found another at Barnes and Noble:

Bounty Mutiny by William Bligh, Edward Christian, with introduction by R. D. Madison

This one sounds good. And it's only $13.00 at B&N.

"FROM THE PUBLISHER: The names William Bligh, Fletcher Christian, and the Bounty have excited the popular imagination for more than two hundred years. On an April morning in 1789, near the island known today as Tonga, William Bligh and eighteen loyal seamen were expelled from the Bounty, and began what would be the greatest open-boat voyage in history, sailing some 4,000 miles to safety in Timor. The mutineers, led by Fletcher Christian, sailed off into a mystery that has never been entirely resolved.

While the full story of what drove the men to revolt or what really transpired during the struggle may never be known, Penguin Classics has brought together all the relevant texts and documents related to a drama that has fascinated generations. Here are the full text of Bligh's Narrative of the Mutiny, the minutes of the court proceedings gathered by Edward Christian in an effort to clear his brother's name, and the highly polemic correspondence between Bligh and Christian -- all amplified by Robert Madison's illuminating introduction and rich selection of subsequent Bounty narratives."

What do you folks out there think? Which version sounds good to you if you are interested in this for a discussion?

Marni

marni-

As far as what I think- I leave that to your discretion as to which book we do. I have not read anything about the subject, and don't know much except for the normal stuff one knows. I don't feel at all competent to choose the best book, if you will. The one I posted that I bought for my hub is the one I already have, obviously and one that Ginny did recommend. That's all I can say. Whatever you choose will be a-ok with me, although I do prefer the ones written by Bligh.

Hats - Nicky my daughter has exposed her children to classical music since they were tots. Now at 5 and 8 they will often put on classical CDs. They like Mozart very much. I think exposing children to classical music at a young age is a good thing. Their mother listens to all genres of music from blues to pop to classical. The children seem to appreciate a great range of music too.

Carolyn

Carolyn, I agree. I believe exposure is important.

Hats: About the length of The Count of Monte Christo: Apparently Dumas wrote this and his other books as serials for the newspaper, as Dickens did. I'm reading the Club Dumas by Arturo Perez-Reverte. It is about the rare book trade, and a portion of Three Musketeers figures prominently in the first section (I am only on page 31). That's where I learned about the stories being serials. It seems that when the current chapter was set in type, the handwritten version was tossed. However a remnant of Chapter 48 has the characters in the book all atwitter. So far a good read. It seems that the musketeers were based on real people and real events. Makes me want to read it again.

Mrs. Sherlock, I bet "Club Dumas" is really good. Thanks for the title. I didn't know the musketeers were based on real people. Thanks for sharing that information.

marni- I just had another look at the book you originally were considering. That one does looks excellent! I'd be happy to read it, and then I can read the one my hub has on the side.

This one is one I think Ginny recommended, didn't she? Seems I recall her mentioning something about, "be sure to read the one account of Bligh in the open boat"- I think this is it!

Hats there are some photos of the little girls I was just talking about in Photos then and now if you want to go take a look they are posted yesterday I think or early this morning by Bunnie.

carolyn

Folks click on Brooke and Grace

To see the darling little girls that Kiwi Lady is talking about.

Joan Grimes

I'm glad the discussion on Bligh's book continued, with other titles. I had looked for it at my library as "The Journal of Captain Bligh" or "Captain Bligh's Journal", and did not find it. Just checked again under "Mutiny on the Bounty", by William Bligh, and Voila! There it was.

I'm going to take a look at it. I had read before that Capt. Bligh's bringing his remaining crew, in the small ship's boat, to safety, was remarkable seamanship. I would expect his journal to be factual and professional, so I don't think that would bother me. On my list.

Babi

Marni, yes, I was thinking that one looks interesting. I have read most of the material, although it's been ages, but not this book. What was the first book you suggested? I thought you were initially thinking about reading Bligh's journal when Ginny mentioned it.

Carolyn, there are negatives to exposing the children to classical music. None of my CDs are safe from my son. He has all my late 19th century classical musical, my Yo Yo Ma, my fiddle CDs, he took my newest Lead Belly before I could listen to more than one song,, my rock music, my Bach, my Hank Williams, my Johnny Cash, my David Bowie, my acoustic Dolly, and he's into punk rock of all things! What's safe? Nothing.

I'm not exposing the grandchildren to Classical or American Folk. Forget it.

Kleo

Scootz, Babi, and Kleo: Thank you so much for your help figuring out what's what with the Bligh books. And I'm so glad you're interested in participating. Maybe others will, too, and we can get a quorum.

Here's where I think we stand on the book - I think it looks like my first idea is the one to go with. It's entitled Mutiny on Board H.M.S. Bounty. It's written by William Bligh and is his account of the Bounty Mutiny and the hazardous 3500 mile sea voyage in an open boat.

It's available in hardback on Barnes & Noble for $21.35 (more expensive than the Penquin book) and it's also available there in audio. Also, it's available in a number of libraries. My library was able to order it for me from a regional library.

We'll leave the item on the drawing board and I'll give our technical folks more specific info as to the book. We'll take it from there.

Thank you so much for your help!

Marni

Carolyn,Brooke and Grace are soooo cute! Thank you for telling us about the photos. Did you make the hat and scarf? I love this new type of thread.

marni- Isn't three a quorum? We have that already!

I ordered the book and I hope it's the right one. It's the first one you posted about at amazon yesterday, yellow cover. I also ordered an illustrated version of the same story, kid's edition (this is more my speed when it comes to history-ugh!, my worst subject). I'll be mostly a lurking sponge in this group, trust me. This last was pennies to order, used so I figured, what the hey?

Whoops, I lost the thread of the discussion.

Scootz: I just checked Amazon again. Amazon has both books I mentioned by William Bligh:

1) The Mutiny on Board H.M.S. Bounty (subtitled "The Captain's Account of the Mutiny and His 3,600 Mile Voyage in an Open Boat") and

(2) The Bounty Mutiny (Penguin Classics)

Both of them have a yellow cover!!!!

Here's the Amazon page with both covers so you can tell:

Amazon

Which of these did you order? I thought your husband already had one. Which one does he have again?

I'm thinking we should do (1) - the one on top on the Amazon page. Is that the one you ordered? But I'll go with whichever one you folks want to do.

THIS IS SO CONFUSING. Both books by William Bligh. Both have very similar titles. Both have yellow covers. HONESTLY.

LOL marni- at least we're laughing about it.

Ok, in your last post? When you click on your amazon link- I have the two first books shown on that page (one is ordered, not here yet). So, I can do either of those. I also ordered an illustrate done that was less than a buck. I'm ready to go, kiddo!

Oh and marni- just so you know, I'd call the one book yellow and the other peach!

Not that I'm nitpicking or anything.

Scootz: Cool. I think I'm getting colorblind. Or maybe I'm wearing rose-colored glasses.

You can't see peach with rose-colored glasses? I'm throwing mine away!

CAROLYN: your granddaughters are adorable. I still remember when Grace visited us in the grandparenting discussion.

When they're older, I have three pretty nice grandsons --

Bligh sounds great, Marni. Once the date is decided on and you get the proposed discussion out, I'm sure you will be on your way.

I just wanted to share last evening's session with Matthew Pearl, author of The Poe Shadow - just in case you aren't sure you want to join this one in September. It was so exciting - just knowing that he plans to participate in this discussion!

Matthew Pearl is on a whirlwind book tour of the US right now - leaves for Spain next week! Here's a link to his schedule; you might want to check and see if he will be in your area ~

I did take notes and will share them with you. Some surprises. First of all, he says he looks forward to participating with us on SeniorNet - he got such a "kick" out of us last time. He even inscribed my copy of The Poe Shadow with this intention.

Second, the photo was taken by Matthew's Aunt Anna - very, very sweet. Am hoping she will join us in the discussion. Keep your fingers crossed. Imagine the stories she could tell!

Here are a few of the points he made last evening:

Matthew Pearl's story - the obituary of Poe's death is the springboard for The Poe Shadow. Though it is fiction, the story is based on heavily researched historical fact. Matthew says a good way to describe his fiction - "authentic without being accurate," though he hastens to add - "Every quote attributed to Poe was actually said by Poe."

Poe himself was not accurate in stating facts - a nice way of saying, he lied about things such as his birthdate, (he shaved off a year and actually died when he was 40, not 39) oh, and he claimed he had been to Paris for the writing of the Murders in the Rue Morgue - apparently not true.

Edgar Allan Poe - not really his name and he wouldn't be happy to hear the "Allan" included - although he himself used it once or twice - it seems that he was taken in to live with a family in Richmond, VA named Allan. This was not a happy time in his life.
He also claimed to have written a novel - in two parts. Matthew is not sure that isn't true, but no one has been able to locate it if it is.

Some M.Pearl reviewers have noted:
"Pearl writes deliberately in the style of Poe, and his attention to period detail is remarkable. The Poe Shadow is a hugely enjoyable read in its own right, and a clever literary exercise to boot." -- THE SUNDAY MERCURY (UK)

The Poe Shadow works well on two levels: It's effective history, sure to please fans of Edgar Allan Poe, and also it can stand alone as a fine piece of mystery writing, brimming with suspense. -- THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN NEWS
Poe's death: many theories. The Poe Museum in Richmond has a board that holds spinning blocks of about 30 different theories as to the cause of his death - you turn the blocks to read the details; everything from alcohol poisoning to rabies. It will be interesting to see how Matthew's fictional detective, Poe fan, Quentin Clark treats the facts as he attempts to solve the mystery of his death. Remember, Matthew bases this story on much research. He told us he came upon previously unpublished information in the course of the three years he did his research, but we need to wait to read the book first. (After last night, I can't wait!)

Poe's Mysteries - Matthew Pearl has edited a new collection of three of Poe's detective stories he has titled "Murders in the Rue Morgue: Dupin Tales: "The Murders in the Rue Morgue," "The Mystery of Marie Rogêt," and "The Purloined Letter." He says that make a great companion with his novel, and we plan to provide a companion discussion of these stories in September with our Bill as discussion leader. Matthew has written an introduction to this collection and will probably drop in on this discussion for comment if we invite him.

There was a lot more to the session...ask me questions and I'll try to answer them as Matthew did. What would you have asked him?

<Here's a link to the newly forming discussion of The Poe Shadow to meet in September

JoanP, what an exciting time you must have had last night, listening to Matthew AND meeting his Aunt Anna. Good picture! Is that a Poe doll on the table by the water bottle?

This is going to be such a great discussion, doubly so with the other Poe stories included. I've got the book, but have set it aside, reluctantly, until August. Now, to get to the Poe Museum!

Wow Joan! You get the award for best post of the week. Great picture and so much fun info. I'll look and see if he's coming to Dallas. (nope, nowehere even close) He's a cutey patootey!

Thanx so much for all that.

Poe and Jack Benny have something in common! LOL

Pedln, you are soooo observant! Yes, the Poe doll was a gift to Matthew - it has a little raven velcroed on to the other shoulder. It's really cute. Matthew told of a man who was really hot to buy it on one of his tours, wanted Matthew to sign the doll on the forehead... but M. decided not to let him have it, imagimed it on EBAY someday.

After the talk of Dumas (father and son) it seemed apropos that our TV screened Count of Monte Cristo last night. Just had to watch it... it was a remake 2002 with Richard Harris as the old priest and Aussie Guy Pearce as Dantes betrayer and an unknown (to me) in the lead. I enjoyed it thoroughly - The dialogue left a little to be desired but it was true to the book although inevitably much was crammed into one scene - what made it work today was a gentle ironic tone here and there.

Not content with that - Master and Commander will be shown this weekend. Such riches.

As for exposing the young to classic works - go for it whether it be music, lit, art - whatever - even if they do 'Borrow' your collections - they will be enriched and so will you. My son always checks out my bookshelves and almost always takes one or two away with him. Sometimes I think he has half my collection but he says that's not true as I have half of his. We both know the books are in good hands. His taste in music is quite different so my tapes stay on my shelves.

gumtree: That's wonderful you can share books with your son. That's one more thing that makes a relationship particularly special.

Thanks Patwest. I can get in through your link, but my normal route is all messed up and says "no access to this area". And I cannot access the normal page that lists all the book areas. I'm having to go in the back way for everything.

BTW pat- I'm ok now. Used your link to set up a new shortcut icon. Must be the gremlins got into my computer overnight, who knows?

Five titles, five countries, and three contininents so far, among the nominations at Read Around the World. Nominations are open to all who are interested, through Wednesday, June 28.

The Hamilton Case by Michelle de Kretser -- set in colonial Ceylon, just before it became Sri Lanka
The Map of Love by Ahdaf Souief -- about two Western women, one at the beginning of the 20th century and one at the end, who find themselves in love with men who have strong ties to Egypt.
Four Letters of Love by Niall Williams -- a first novel about Irish life that merges the tragedies and loves of two families.
Cry, the Beloved Country by Alan Paton -- South Africa in the early days of apartheid.
Purple Hibiscus by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie -- set in Nigeria, depicting a country and a family in the midst of turmoil

Pedlin.. Cry th eBeloved Country was a fine fine book. REad it many years ago. Made you sit and cry for the country. But now things have changed so much in South Africa

The gremlins were at work here too. Like Scootz I had the 'no access' message all day yesterday. Could not get in through my usual page and only managed to access 'Teacher Man' and 'Quixote' through other portal and could get nothing else. All seems well now.

Marni - you're right, books are a major common interest between son and self. We sometimes have long and searching discussions about our reading which probably reveals me to him as much as it shows him to me. His tastes are more eclectic than mine so I'm learning from him all the way and when he recommends a book I read it eventually ( sometimes a good deal later).

My "Ladies of the Club" have been busy being thrown into the jail on charges stemming from their overzealous temperance ideas. Now, they are organizing a library for their town. They talk of a "circulating" library and also a "subscription" library. Does anyone know the difference, if there is one?

Scootz, my understanding is that a "subscription" library would be where one paid a fee to check out books. When I was first married we lived in Newport, RI. They had both a public library (this would be the circulating library) and the Redwood Library, which circulated books to its PAID membership. Redwood was a subscription library, privately run, and not supported by the taxpayers.

Was there a subscription library in "Stones from the River" or "The Bookshop" by Penelope Fitzgerald? I might have books mixed up. I did read "The Bookshop" but not "Stones from the River."

I have been in several libraries over the years, that let you take out books that are not new or not best sellers for free, but you paid a fee for the books that were new or best sellers. Not sure what they would be called, but in each instance, they were the towns official library.

Thanks, pedln. I had never heard the term "subscription" library before reading it here. These ladies are a going concern, that's for sure.

I remember being told about "subscription" libraries in History of the Libraries course, but I'd forgotten the details. It's interesting what I've found on the internet...

From Edinburgh (lots of UK references to subscription libraries on google)

One reason given for the establishment of the Edinburgh Subscription Library was that circulating libraries were 'chiefly stored with trash'. People unhappy with existing libraries started subscription libraries. That way they could make sure that book selection and management could suit the needs of their community - self-help for mutual improvement.

Source:http://www.historyshelf.org/shelf/learn/04.php

and then in Britannica online I found this abbreviated citation...I don't belong so can't get the full text, but this gives a bit of background:

Rental and subscription libraries

charged fees for the use of books. Rental libraries—in bookshops or peddlers' packs, on boats or carts or wagons—were known in many parts of the world. For small fees, people could read books they couldn't afford to buy—everything from religious books to joke books.

Subscription libraries were formed by groups of readers, usually well-to-do. These people paid dues that were…

http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article-203817

Fascinating. I'm so glad that most Americans seem to value the public library and are willing to have tax monies spent on the purchase of materials for all residents to use. We did have one "radio personality" come out against taxes for a public library. He felt anybody should be able to afford to buy whatever books he/she wanted to read. As a librarian and reader, I about went through the car roof when he started on that. He obviously hasn't bought many books lately to realize how much they cost...and how much small children's books cost. Many families I know could not afford to buy books when a lot of children will read 5-8 a week easily. That guy should have to work in a children's room to see parents come in with their kids to get a supply of reading.

jane

Thank you, jane. Nice of you to type all that out. I was most interested in all of it. So fun to read and learn, isn't it?

Psstt...Scootz...I didn't have to type it all...just did a copy and paste! Psstt...don't tell anybody!

Oh ok, my lips are sealed

Nice of you to cut and paste, then at any rate.

That radio personality sounds like a true Libertarian. If you can't afford it you don't deserve it. Things like fire insurance, police protection, medical care, etc. We can thank Andrew Carnegie for many fine libraries in America.

I've been doing some reading in biblical archaeology, just an extended appendix in the back of a good study Bible. You know what the most exciting find is for the serious archaeologist and scholar? A library! Gold and gems and art are thrilling and draw in people to see them. But what is found in the remains of the libraries is what tells us most about the world as it was.

I wondered how much would be preserved in libraries destroyed today, with most of the knowledge bound up in paper? Clay and stone are at least durable. Film...that burns, too. The good news is, today's knowledge is widely disseminated and available everywhere, so there's not much chance of it really being lost.

Babi

Babi, your post is very interesting. I have an interest in Archaeology. At one time I thought some of us talked about a Bruce Feiler book being up for discussion.

We did, HATS, but there was not enough interest in it. I've always enjoyed reading about archaeology. On those occasions I've been able to visit some really old place, I liked to just sit quietly until I could visualizse the place as it once was, and imagine people going about their business. It makes it very real for me.

Babi

Babi, whenever you have a good title, please share it.

Lots of information in Durant's "Story of Civilization" come from archeology digs.

Robby

Robby, that is good to know.

Jane, I was hoping you'd put your 2 cents worth in about subscription libraries. I think I've forgotten more than I learned in that Hist. of Lib. course, but wasn't Ben Franklin responsible for the beginning of subscription libraries in the US? And there is something strange, too, about the New York Public Library -- the one with the lions -- it's part public and part private?

Babi, that's interesting about the role libraries play for Biblical scholars and archaeologists. Doesn't Alexandria, Egypt have one of the oldest, most famous libraries?

Mrs. Sherlock, yes we owe a lot to Andrew Carnegie, but also to the legions of persons who were responsible for the start-up of libraries in many towns and communities. I remember when my brother and SIL bought their house in a new NW Chicago suburb in the early 50s. She and a host of other moms went door to door to get a library started in their community. When she died a few years ago both the Tribune and Daily Herald remarked about her early library efforts.

Pedln: You've got a good memory...

[Franklin] organized the country's first subscription library. http://www.lucidcafe.com/library/96jan/franklin.html

Many subscription libraries—founded to benefit academies, colleges, and other groups—were established from the 17th through the 19th centuries. The Library Company of Philadelphia grew out of the needs of the Leather Apron Club, also known as the "Junto," of which Franklin was a member. In addition to exchanging business information, these merchants discussed politics and natural philosophy, contributing to their requirements for books. Volumes were purchased with the annual contributions of shareholders, building a more comprehensive library than any individual could afford.

Directors of the Library Company made their holdings available to the first Continental Congress when it convened in Philadelphia in September 1774. Their offer is recorded in The Journals of the Continental Congress...

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/today/nov14.html

I remember the profs talking/dreaming at great length about the treasures that were housed and then lost in the fire at Alexandria.

The collection of manuscripts at Alexandria was probably the largest in the western world until the invention of printing, though there may have been even larger libraries in India and China during the many flowerings that marked their long and glorious civilizations. As for the New World, Diego de Landa, Bishop of Yucatan, speaks of the Mayan manuscripts he burned as creations of the devil, thus rendering voiceless the true genius of this great people at the height of their accomplishments. Source and more info here: http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/general/rel-jvm.htm

It's a continuing mystery, never to be known I guess, what wondrous things might have been contained in these libraries.

We have a wonderful Carnegie Library in my little town. There's a fellow who's doing a book or dissertation on the Carnegie Libraries and has visited ours, taken pictures, etc. When a bond issue was passed to expand it, the Board got an architect who designed the new part to duplicate the old. The brick is a wonderful match, the columns, the arches inside...and the old big wooden circular main circ desk has been refinished and is the location of the computers that are available to the public! It's beautiful and functional.

jane

On the front page of today's Hartford Courant there was a big article about the man (I forgot his name) who stole the ancient maps from rare books in libraries and then sold them to people who trusted him. Have you heard about it? He was caught when he was in the process of stealing a map, cutting it out of a book, when he dropped his razor and the librarian saw it. He fessed up on a number of his thefts and the FBI have been tracking the ancient maps down to get them returned to their rightful owners. Some current owners are holding on to the maps until they see more proof. Many have been returned. At least one was lost. Some think he stole many more than he admitted to.

He stole some from the Yale Beinecke Rare Books and Manuscripts Library that I visited last weekend. So, this really caught my eye.

Marni, Bligh's account of the mutiny is in the on-line document that Ginny is talking about. The first book on the Amazon page in your post is that document--in other words, the one Ginny is talking about, but in print, not on-line. If you click on the book then look inside you will see the frontpiece with the original lengthy title from Bligh that was posted in here earlier.

The second appears to be Bligh's account, plus the court records.

In other words, the on-line book Ginny mentioned and the two you mention are all the same thing, except that the second one of yours (second on the Amazon page) also has Edward Christian's court notes.

Kleo

Pedln, that is a moving story about your SIL getting a library started in the community. I am glad the librarians and people in the community didn't forget her efforts.

Jane, thank you the links.

NO INTEREST?? FOR BRUCE FEILER'S "WHERE GOD WAS BORN"? That book would be another interesting find for us as we have discussed two of his books already and really enjoyed them. He is so enthusiastic about his finds in the Holy Land and environs. Its a shame to miss any of his writings. I loved "Walking the Bible" and "Abraham". With a good map at your side, you can follow along on his travels and enjoy his revelation of the history that had taken place in those ancient lands.

My mother used to pay 25 cents for renting new books from the stationery store in our neighborhood although she was a frequent visitor to the local library and the main library downtown in Indy. This was in the 40's, as I remember.

Well, I'm certainly learning here about libararies. I had never even heard the term "subscription" library. Now that I think on it, I have heard the term "lending library" and I wonder if that's the same.

Ok now I'll really show my ignorance by saying that I didn't think there were even enough books around for there to be libraries as far back as the 1600's.

For the heck of it, I looked at the tiny little library I used to go to when I lived in Connecticut and saw that it was established in the 1700's. Even that shocked me. Like I say, history is my worst subject. <wince>

Ann, I hope there is a change in the wind. I love Bruce Feiler's books especially discussing it with other posters.

If I am correct, Ben Franklin est. the first lending libraries.

Libraries are the most amazing places. I love them and visit them whereever we travel. Some of the smallest places have the darndest things in them. Once visited a teeny little house library in Middleburg,NY. A genealogist willed them both the house and her genealogy collection. They turned the living portions of the house into a library, left the genealogy collection in the room she had for it and open the library a few afternoons a week with a part time librarian and many many volunteers. It is a wonderful place to look for information on the early settlers and has a nice little lending section as well. The mormons have the right idea on preservation. They have a duplicate of their main library all on tape, etc way out in the mountains around Salt Lake.. This is in case something terrible happened to the main library.

So many libraries and their books were ruined during Hurricane Katrina. So, the Mormans have a wonderful idea. Today Show is one place that is starting a collection of books to replenish the libraries that were hit by Hurricane Katrina.

My first job as a teenager was a Page in the library. I had to shelve books. I also had to make sure the books were in order on the shelf.

Scootz ~
You posted: (were) there were even enough books around for there to be libraries (in) the 1600's?

Yes, there were early libraries in Alexandria (not a lending library) and in Rome and later in Paris.
There were many, many books in England in the 1400s (will find a reference)
There was little chance of the new American colonies being short of books; many sea captains had extensive personal libraries. Many of the Dutch settlers brought books. It was the Puritan's in MA (my current abode) who prohibited reading of novels and plays. The other colonies had theater a'plenty.
David Hachett Fischer, a most outstanding historian, goes into such material. I'll find the detailed references if any one asks.

Kleo: Yes, thanks for the Bligh info. That first book is the one to be proposed on the Drawing Board - probably for Nov. It's available in hardback, online, paperback, audio, and in libraries. More info will be provided soon.

Marni

Terrific, Marni! I'll look for the book as soon as you firm up the details!

"There were many, many books in England in the 1400s (will find a reference)." Mippy

I think that "many, many books" awaited movable type in the mid 15th century, and a few decades for it to become available. No matter how many books there were in the 1400s the numbers changed dramatically after the popularity of movable type. Books simple were not as available when they had to be individually hand-copied as when they could be printed en masse. The before and after of movable type in the West is one of the foundations of our civilization.

Most European libraries in the 1400s were in the hands of individual noblemen or monasteries, oh and universities, of course.

The Muslim world was much bigger on libraries through the Dark Ages, even after the Mongol invasion (which destroyed many of their libraries) than the Christian world. There is a book that I have not read that describes how the Christian monks copied many of the ancient scrolls of Greece and Rome and Persia--does it mention that a large number of these were copied in monasteries near Islamic nations? This is partially the source of our modern knowledge of the ancient world: Islamic libraries.

The Romans were quite big on libraries.

Is there a good book about the history of libraries?

Kleo

Kleo,I would love to read a good book about the history of libraries. Your post is very interesting and enlightening.

We've just now opened the site for the discussion of Edgar Allan Poe's Rue Morgue Mysteries. There's even a link to the online text for all three of them.

Since we just opened, and haven't a quorum yet for discussing Poe's stories, it would be great if you go down and post now so we can schedule this for the Fall lineup...concurrent with Matthew Pearl's mystery.The Poe Shadow

Here's the link to Poe's Murders in the Rue Morgue: Dupin Tales. Hope to see you there!

ANN & HATS, you were the two who expressed interest in "Where God Was Born" the first time around. Then there were a couple of other posters who expressed why they didn't want to discuss the book.

You're right Pedlin, about the archaeological aspects of the book. Feiler goes to Ur, to Babylon and Baghdad, Iran and other sites and explores the influences found there on our beliefs today.

Well, if just one more person registers an interest, we would have the minimum quorum and I could propose it again. Who knows..

Babi

Marni, sounds like a perfect choice to me. I'm in.

I think the Fuller books sound interesting, even if I'm not available for discussing them. The author interests me, also, because he is like me in a way. I have been obsessed with visiting Ur in Iraq since I first heard of it as the birthplace of Abraham. I love that this author is interested in these ancient cities where our Christian, Islamic and Jewish faiths were born. I wish more people were mesmerized by how great Faith can be, instead of thinking God was commanding them to war.

Kleo

If everyone read the Levitical laws they would know these laws came from a higher and more advanced power than us. They are really amazing. They kept the Israelites from becoming unnecessarily ill. Read them carefully. They were not just rituals.

Kleo I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments. It beggars belief that anyone would think God would want us to go to war in this day and age.

Yay! I'm so glad some others besides me are interested in the Bligh.

Ann and Babi, I have my fingers crossed that the quorum will come together. Bruce Feiler's books are so interesting. What about Persian?? Wasn't she in the "Abraham" discussion? I hope it's not wrong to mention her name. I just remember how much knowledge she willingly gives to a discussion. Ella? Harold?

Marni, I know nothing about Bligh. I would like to join the discussion with you. I definitely have an interest. I am so afraid that all the book discussions are going to gather up and push me down a staircase. Does that sound like something from Poe or what?? Is Bligh the one involved in "Mutiny on the Bounty?" I am a little dense. I missed when this discussion is taking place. I did see a big discussion about which books are needed for the discussion. I lost my way. That's not unusual.

I lost my way. That's not unusual.

hats- That was a confusing thread, even for those of us posting it.

So don't feel bad. Hope you'll join us. MY hub started the one book this last weekend and he is really into it. (he hardly ever reads a book, so that says something).

Hi Scootz, I do want to join the Bligh group badly. Thank you for the invite. You are always good at leaving "crumbs" along the way for me. You are becoming like a guardian book angel.

You are always good at leaving "crumbs" along the way for me. You are becoming like a guardian book angel.

hats- I guess this time, I'll have to leave breadfruit crumbs, eh?

Scootz, well needed!

Do you use bookmarks? What is your favorite type?

I love bookmarks. I like anything pretty. I don't like anything used for a bookmark. I want to get some of those beaded bookmarks. Have you seen those in Barnes and Noble and other bookstores? I also like quotations written on bookmarks.

Tell me about your bookmarks.

This is the bookmark I am using for "Don Quixote." There is a quotation by Ursula K. le Guin.

"Books...an essential guide to our understanding of what we ourselves are and may become."

What kind of bookmark are you going to use for "The Poe Shadow" discussion???

One day I want to crochet some bookmarks too. I should have done that this summer.

Hmmmmm, glad you brought that up, hats. I will have to look for a Poe bookmark for September.

I also have made bookmarks, though I haven't made any for a while. I use my printing program, design it, then use my laminator. I made several for my f2f group but then felt I was overdoing it, so stopped! LOL

I have bought quite a few from amazon. They are good to order to make the order add up to the amount needed to get free shipping. Theirs come in a little booklet and you separate them. I have laminated those as they're not so sturdy. My favprites of those are the artist ones- Van Gogh, Monet, et al.

When Oprah had ANNA KARENINA as her summer read, she designed a bookmark with all the charcters names, etc on it. You could print it out. That got me ging on matching my bookmarks to the book.

One more question. What kind of bookmark are you using in "And Ladies of the Club...?" Lamination is a good idea.

I enjoyed "Anna Karenina" along with Oprah. Did you read it, Scootz? It's a great book.

Well, in truth, I am not using one for Ladies. It stays on my Necksaver book holder, so it's not necessary. Sometimes, I match it only by color.

Check this out- Poe Bookmark

I apologize for being impolite. His face isn't doing it for me. I wouldn't want to open the book and see his face each time. I'm easily spooked. What do you think of it?

I have leftover bookmarks from my used book store, so I use them to remind me of when I used to work. Bligh.. I suspect that if it is the same time as the Poe ( which is a double book discussion) I could not fit it in. If it is later in the year, I am in though. I thought he was a most interesting man.

Stephanie, I am wondering about the time of these discussions too.

What is the title and author of the book you mentioned in the Poe discussion? I bet it's a good book. Is it by Dorothy Sayers?

I apologize for being impolite. His face isn't doing it for me

hats- having an opinion isn't being impolite.

It doesn't spook me, but I am going to search for a bteter one. I do think B&N actually has a color one of him.

Stephanie- not sure if a time has been mentioned for Bligh. I couldn't do it either with a double Poe on my plate. Somehow, I doubt marni would sunbject us to that. "Right, marni?" she asked pointedly.

Echo. "Right, Marni???"

My granddaughter has made me counted crossstich bookmarks before. I really like them because they're so nice and sturdy. I'm sending her Scootz' picture of the Poe bookmark. Maybe she can design one of him. Of course, now she's 16 and all grown up with big summer plans like a math seminar and working a week in a Senator's office. There might not be time for bookmarks.

I love book marks. I have some neat ones from the Biltmore House.

For years I have collected postcards with views from around the world. Now I used them as book marks. I try to match the place of the plot with a view of that country. This way I enjoy the cards again. Bubble

Boy, all of you have wonderful bookmarks. We need to have a display of different bookmarks.

I have also gotten lovely bookmarks at art exhibits here at the DMA (Dallas Museum of Art). They always print up bookmarks to go with the artist being displayed. Wish they'd do it more often.

I HATE the stiff type bookmarks- like metal sort of ones that are rigid . I prefer a standard type and I do prefer them laminated.

Have any of you tried the ones that mark your last line? I like these for books where the chapters are really long and I stop mid-chapter. It just clips to the page dge at the line where you stop. (I am using one of those, hats , for Ladies. BTW- Ladies has twice now tipped over my book holder! LOL)

I have picked out my TEACHER MAN one already. Its a green felt one I have with the Irish blessing on it.

It is confusing, future discussions being mentioned here and there. I know that everyone is a volunteer and I hate to add to their burdens, BUT i am a visual thinker. If we could have a calendar, a list by month, of the future potential discussions I for one could plan my participation better. If it is too much, may I volunteer to do it?

Mrs. Sherlock -- try this --

Discussions on the Drawing Board

RATW is still open for nominations -- through Wednesday, June 28

MrsSherlock, good question about schedule and thanks, Pedln for the Drawing Board link. We also have a "current and proposed schedule" chart that includes a link to the Drawing Board at http://www.seniornet.org/php/default.php?PageID=7932

P.S. I am enjoying the bookmark discussion here and how organized and "visual" some of you are--matching your bookmark to the characters, plot, etc of the book you are reading. It would be great if some of you would scan your bookmarks and show them off here...or if some of you create your own bookmarks, share the file so others can download and print it.

pedln, Marcie: Thanks. That's a big help. There's no s ubscribe button on either page; can that be added? That way I can keep up with changes the lazy way,

HATS, my reaction to the Poe bookmark was pretty much the same as yours. Off-putting, one might say.

Scootz, I use my regular bookmarks to pinpoint my stopping place. I place the bookmark so it's facing the page I stopped on, and if necessary I place it sideways in the book at the spot where I stopped. Takes me right where I left off.

Babi

MrsSherlock, since those are "regular" pages and not a discussion page, there isn't a way to subscribe, but I believe that changes to the schedule are announced here in this discussion. We might suggest that the volunteers who update those pages post here with a link when they update them. It's one more thing for our volunteers to remember but they may be willing to do it.

I have added an additional small graphic of the Book Chart in the heading. By clicking on that you will be taken to the latest book chart.

Thank you, Pat. That is a good solution.

patwest, you are a doll!

Bookmarks - Vanessa got me one from the University Bookshop at Oxford University England. Its printed with the name of the University and has clever literary quotes on it. Another favorite was bought in Paris from one of the art galleries. It has a Rubens baby on it. Vanessa always seems to know what I would really like when she buys me little gifts when she is overseas.

Carolyn

Wow, the Book Nook is hopping today. I've been on the road to visit with my parents for the day.

I'm so excited to see the interest in the Bligh book! Hats, I'm so glad you want to read it. I'm counting on you! Yes, it's the Mutiny on the Bounty Bligh. His own words of what happened.

And Scootz - your husband is into it. That's great! I'm excited because my copy arrived at the library today and I started it to get an idea of what's what with the different versions. Now I know we've selected a good one - the same version as the Project Gutenberg version on the internet.

I'm shooting for Nov. 1 as the start date for the discussion so as not to interfere with too many other discussions. I'll ask Jane to update the Drawing Board. Right now the other item on the Board for that start date is the Tennyson poem "The Lady of Shallot." I want to join that discussion, too. The Bligh is quite short. So I think it's ok to have both in the same month.

So keep an eye on the Drawing Board. That's great that we can link to it from here now. Thanks, PatW!

Marni

I crocheted bookmarks for my f2f group and seven other friends for Christmas last year. It was fun to do, using different patterns and colors, and it took no time at all. I could work at them in the car - as a passenger, of course.

It's a good way to use up some ends of skeins and they're useful!!!

I've also used for bookmarks the half a box of business cards (that's 500) i had left over from my job when i retired! They work very nicely.......LOL

Hey Ginny, i'm waiting to hear about your week-end in Philadelphia...............jean

Scootz: I love the way you use the different book marks. That sounds fun. Mine are boring. I just grab paper bookmarks from the library checkout counter. I need a lot of them because I read so many books at the same time.

I do have one pretty one, though. My friend made me one out of a beautiful ribbon with a bead hanging from it. She makes jewelry and has gorgeous beads. She took me to a bead show a few years ago. That was interesting. The jewelry makers got great discounts on beads from bead vendors - and not just on beads, but everything needed to make jewelry - and jewelry already made. They had interesting and beautiful beads from all over the world - even antique beads. I really enjoyed the bead show. But I don't have the patience to make jewelry or bookmarks. I'd probably tear my hair out before I finished anything.

Jean: I like your idea of using the business cards. I think I have 2 boxes of them somewhere. I use anything I can grab when I need a bookmark - grocery slips, a corner of a kleenex, a piece of newspaper. I'm always bringing home books and starting them and then need a bookmark at the drop of a hat.

that's why i started w/ the business cards. I keep them on my bookcase in the sunroom, so they're close by, w/ some on my night stand, seems a shame to just chuck them - they work great......and my week-end was a hoot!.......jean

Great fun reading about everyone's bookmarks. I think I'll check for the Poe one at my next B&N visit. Seems to me I recall a series of famous authors on bookmarks there.

My hub, who travels, has been told to be on the lookout for new ones. I much rather have anew bookmark than a tshirt any day!

thank you for the graphic in the header. I love it!

Marni, I am looking forward to Bligh. Tennyson will soften the edges. I have been looking forward to the Tennyson discussion. Another wonderful month is around the corner. I won't worry about a book until the time draws nearer. I am not sure what my library owns about Bligh. Thank you for saying it's alright for me to board the ship with you and the other shipmates.

I am skipping around. There are lots of posts here.

I hope Ginny will have time to share the highpoints of the Classic Conference.

Scootz and other posters, Robby is leading a great discussion in Story of Civilization. At this time the group is discussing Medieval Homes. Come along! The group welcomes every new arrival.

Who would have thought that “Friedrich Nietzsche’s Diet Book” existed?

LMBO!! What collossal hoot. Gotta love Allen's wit. Thanks for sharing, that got my face alive this morning.

"For Simon Schama, Scholarship Is Best Served With A Touch of Drama: Rough Crossings

Mal,very interesting. I will look for 'Rough Crossing.' Thanks for the link.

I have picked up On Beauty by Zadie Smith. I am really enjoying it. Now I want to go back and read White Teeth. Are there any recommendations for neither of these books? Did anybody dislike these novels?

Marnie ~ Thanks for setting up your proposed date for the new book group for November, as
October was looking difficult for me!
Among other conflicts, the 20th anniversary conference in October will involve travel for many of us.

Please know I will be stepping up to be counted in, at the appropriate time, as I've been especially interested in the maritime history of that century.

Oh, good, Mippy! We're going to have a terrific group!

I wonder if there are any more SeniorNet bookmarks. Some were made a year or so ago, and PatWest gave me another one at our Elderhostel in April. Personally, I usually wind up using one of those annoying advertising cards I tear out of magazines.

Yes, those make good bookmarks, too, MaryZ!! Sometimes, I use post-its because I have them all over the place. I'm really going to have to do something about this!!

I am just finished Sue Monk Kidd's latest book, "The Mermaid Chair". I haven't read one of hers since "The Secret Life of Bees" and I am happy to say the Kidd's magic is still in place.

Babi

CRITICAL THINKING. What is it good for? (In fact, what is it?)

I wish i had a f2f group to discuss it with. Might recommend it to my f2f book group, just for a change. The quotes are very astute, there's a lot of "stuff" in there to think about.........jean

Mabel, in addition to any face-to-face groups our participants might belong to, we can always discuss articles of interest on the SeniorNet web site. If an article is not selected for a Curious Minds discussion or elsewhere in our Books & Culture area, we can provide a venue in another discussion area.

My favorite link is the Woody Allen article about Neitzsches' Diet Cookbook! That's worth sending to friends who like clever writing. I do love the social comments he makes so humorously. Thanks for bringing it here where we can all enjoy it.

I've wanted to ask this forever. How do you all know how to make the emoticons here at SN? I can only make a

and a

. I want to be able to make all the different ones. Please tell me how.

Courtesy --- Biscuit (Joan Lavelle) - RoundTables Host--N. Little Rock, AR time + 2

There's a table with many emoticons available right here at SeniorNet. It's listed as Emoticon Help on the main RoundTables page.
You can check it out by clicking here.

Thanks so much, Pat. I looked for that here at SN, but never did find it. Now I can be more varied.

This book is featured this morning in WSJ. It looks worth a look, and may make a good bathroom book. (yikes!)Hats- there's even an anecdote about Achebe!

NEW OXFORD BOOK OF LITERARY ANECDOTES

Scootz, thank you! I will look at the clickable now.

Our daughter has just finished reading a book about the man who compiled the Oxford English Dictionary. She liked it a lot. It's called The Professor and the Madman - A Tale of Murder, Insanity, and the Making of the Oxford English Dictionary, by Simon Winchester.

I liked that book very much too. Full of information too about the OED.

I always wanted to read that book.

Hi MaryZ!

I read that one too, years ago when it came out. Very interesting.

A very good book -- we discussed it in 1/99

The Professor and the Madman

Patwest, thank you. Oh, it's in the Archives. I love to read the posts of past book discussions.

Several years ago my SIL and I each gave that book (Professor) to my brother for Christmas because it was 'right up his alley' so to speak. He didn't need two copies, so one came back to me, and I enjoyed it.

Winchester has written a handful of great books. I love the way his mind jumps around. He brings up something that sends me off the deep end on some completely whack different thought and two pages later he's on the same page where my mind went.

I loved Professor and have read most of his books. His best, imo, is The Map That Changed the World: William Smith and the Birth of Modern Geology. It is one of the most interesting, amazing and relevant books I have ever read. Simply stunning. It's a story I already knew and loved put in a perspective to show its importance to human culture today.

We ought to ask him to SeniorNet for an author discussion of this book, if it has not already been discussed here.

Kleo

Someone suggested a fun book list in my on-line book club, where we just finished a couple of sea adventures:

Crackerjack Sea Books in Bookmarks Magazine

What a list of great books.

Kleo

Thanks for the Emoticons, PAT. I was able to add one to my list. Now, can you tell me the significance of "It's Mr. Bill!" I'm drawing a blank on that one. Who is Mr. Bill?

Babi

Kleo ~ Thanks very much for the list of sea books.
I've read a lot of them, but now I'll look for many more. What a wonderful list!

Mr. Bill was a clay character on Saturday Night Live in skits that featured spoofs of children's television shows. The sketches started out like traditional children's shows, think Captain Kangaroo, Sesame Street shows, not cartoons, then Mr. Bill and his dog Spot suffered some horrendous, usual physical, ambulance requiring, indignity--oh, no!

Oh, yes.

You're welcome, Mippy. Lots of books I've read, but plenty I haven't, and I'm off!

Kleo

How do we get to the emoticon list w/out your link?........jean

The nominees are in at Read Around the World. Six excellent titles from Sri Lanka to Ireland, to India, Egypt, South Africa and Nigeria. If you wish to participate, to have a say in our October international discussion, visit the site below.

RATW Nominees and Ballot

Voting takes place through Thursday, July 6.

You can check it out by clicking here.

I printed them and taped them to my PC.

Thanks for the Crackerjack Sea Books, Kleo. I sent it to my sis, who's addicted to them.

Of course I have to quibble. I read an account of Shacleton's voyage which is much better written and more interesting than his. Now if I could only remember the name and author!!

And thanks for the emoticons, Pat. Do they work in e-mail too?

Kleo: Thanks for the terrific list. I've read a bunch of them and know they're good. I'm heading to the library to find some of the others!

I'm back from a fantastically successful Conference in Philadelphia where our own SeniorNet Classics Project students convened and made a wonderful impression, lots to tell. So exciting to meet them and put faces to names, we won't forget that one for a long time, more on that later on tho.

I'm having THE most decadent lazy enjoyable summer imaginable. I've just watched the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie (3 times) and a Month at the Lake on Netflix. Netflix has actually written me asking if I perhaps don't want to be sure I see 4 movies this month, I'm falling behind, can you believe that? hahahaa

I am lost in summer reading and relaxation. I'm off to strange places, pure escapism, enjoying at night Robert Barnard's Fete Fatale, wonderful old piece so sharply written, about a new vicar in a small English village and a church festival, it's a mystery, if you have not read it, don't miss it.

Then I'm roaming the halls of the basement of the Museum of Natural History with the incomparable Preston and Childs in the brand new Book of the Dead and since I love their books and it's on the best seller lists for the summer, I'm hooked. A package is delivered to the Museum of Natural History (where one of them used to actually work) , and a brown powder is spilling out the corner of it, what do YOU think happened? Hahahaha But it's what the powder IS and what it MEANS (you'd never guess) that carries the crux. I love Preston and Childs and this one is a keeper.

Also I am shocked to find myself totally immersed, lost, hooked and totally obsessed by The Lady of Shalott, by Tennyson which we'll read in November. Who KNEW? Who knew? Not I, I had no clue.

Out flew the web, and floated wide,
The mirror cracked from side to side,
"The curse is come upon me," cried
The Lady of Shalott.

It's like the most incredible magical Pandora's Box that ever was. Silly little sing song rhyme, right? Everybody has heard of it, many can quote these lines, silly little rhyme?

OH NO no, not at all, huge huge thing, incredible and exciting, like a tomb of the ancient pharaohs, every pathway leads to more excitement and more treasure. Wonderful wonderful experience and lots of internet references my very slow ISP will not allow me to visit but our readers can! Can't WAIT for this one, am very excited, it's a true pleasure to explore! There were 2 versions, too, both online, and the history of the poem and poet are startling, when's the last time you read Tennyson?!?

In the above illustration "The Lady of Shalott," by Florence M. Rutland, from The Yellow Book 9 (April 1896): 55. you can see The Lady imprisoned (by what/ whom?) in a tower with Lancelot riding by, clanking and shining behind her. Representing life? Representing the difference in men and women? Romanticism? OH BOY. There are enough women's issues alone to write 10 books here but there's even more. Whole serious books have been written on this little sing song rhyme. It makes ME want to write poetry (but I won't) hahaah Maybe we need a fun contest tho to see who can?

This little poem has apparently inspired the greatest artists of all time, I have a billion illustrations, I can put up one a day: Rossetti, Howard Pyle, Hunt, on and on and ON. It's UNREAL!

At any rate she can't look directly out, at the light, but has to watch life thru a mirror reflection. She literally looks thru a glass darkly, but then face to face? You can see what happened when the clanking and the shining caused her to turn and look. But we need to ask ourselves why? I tell you this little rhyme is as powerful as anything we've ever done, it gives me goose bumps. I hope you will join us in a voyage of exploration with the Lady in November as well as in the Bligh, I can't imagine two greater things to read at the same time! I ordered a fresh copy of the Bligh yesterday just to have one handy, mine is worn out.

Meanwhile Teacher Man starts today, with about 40 people in there, hope you can join us and add your voice to the lazy summer conversation, and I am pretty sure, having just come from a bazillion presentations on teaching, that I have a bazillion opinions, some of which you may not like! Let's hear them all!

I saw The Devil Wears Prada yesterday also in a theater so crowded there were no seats, can't imagine why. I'll talk about THAT in the Books Into Movies.

I love the discussion here on Bookmarks! We do have old bookmarks but there's no reason on earth we can't contemplate new ones for our 10th Anniversary this October? Why ever not, what a GOOD idea!

Great great summer venues here, one of the strongest summers I have ever seen, what a joy to read your great posts!

Ginny, Glad to see youre back and reading many things at once. I tried the Child thing, but could not get into it. MDH loves Preston and Child and reads all of them. I am still carefully treasuring my Julia Child " My life in France" I only read a few pages each day to be sure and savor her last writing of all. What a wonderful funny lady.. Then I have a detective story that revolves around Poe and the lady poets. Fun,, and partly true, It seems. Did finish The Hot Flash Club. That was light summer stuff. Welcome back, oh Latin scholar.

Ginny, welcome back. Can't wait to hear about all your adventures in PHilly with the Latin folks. And looking forward to Teacher Man.

" The mirror cracked from side to side," -- Tennyson -- So that's where Agatha Christie got that title. Hmmm. The PBS discussion has been going great guns, creating a Christie kick for some of us.

A comment from today's NYT. It seems a professor from the U. of Washington has discovered a way to predict the rise and fall of air fares and has created a Web page about it. He was going to call it Hamlet.com, as a play on "to buy or not to buy", but was told that might be too subtle for those on the WEb.

What do you think? So, it's Farecast.com

The Book is "Undaunted Courage" by Stephen Ambrose. The discussion will begin August 1st and will run for 6 weeks. There will be a 5 day break for the Labor Day holliday.

This book is arguably the most popular of the many Ambrose histories. In its original hard cover edition it is about 475 very readable large print pages. All are welcome to join! Just Click Here for the Proposed Discussion announcement where you can sign-up to participate.

The new Oprah magazine has an article by Harper Lee, which is a big deal considering her reclusiveness. My hub tell me she actually appeared on Oprah?!?!? Did anyone see her? If he's right and it was on this past week, I am so bummed out about it.

How could I miss that?

Anyhoo, the new magazine also has a summer reading list with 64 titles on it. Yum!

KLEO, thanks for explaining Mr. Bill. I guess I didn't see that much of Saturday Night Live. Now I know when Mr..Bill would be appropriate...like when I goof?

Babi

My kids, who were teens in the 70s, drove me crazy talking like Mr. Bill, also with their impersonations of Steve Martin as King Tut or the Chee burgy routine. It was cute the first 10 times, but it continued long after that! Sue

Scootz, I missed the show. I did know about the article in "O." I can't wait to read it. It is a very big deal for Oprah to get an interview with her. I love "To Kill a Mockingbird. If I remember correctly, there is a bookstore near Va. Beach called "Atticus." Maybe it's closed now. We went in the bookstore years ago.

hats- I went to her website and couldn't see any mention of it in the archives for her shows last week, so I'm not sure if she actually was on or not.

Scootz, it's confusing. I heard Harper Lee would appear on Oprah. I don't know where I heard or read the information now. If you hear anything new, let me know. I would hate to miss that show. I don't look at all of Oprah's shows. So, I have to depend on her website and other people. I hope we don't miss Harper Lee. Really, I can't see her making a television appearance, can you? Of course, Oprah is good at getting people to come on her show. Although, they won't appear on other shows.

Really, I can't see her making a television appearance, can you?

No, and I really questioned if Dan got the information correct. I looked at the lineup for this week, and it doesn't say anything about her either. Guess I'll just have to wait and see if anyone says they actually saw her.

BTW, hats- have you see the Capote movie? Harper Lee was a close friend to him, and she (her character) is a big factor in the movie.

No, I haven't seen Capote. Thanks for telling me. I have heard that's a really good movie. Scootz, I have never seen or read Breakfast at Tiffany's. I think that's just shameful.

Scootz, I have never seen or read Breakfast at Tiffany's. I think that's just shameful.

Color me shameful, too then

Audrey Hepburn was so delightful in that film, in the days of sweet romantic tales.

Harper Lee and Oprah

Ann, thank you!

Scootz, I feel less shame. I must see it, Bubble. I want to read it too.

I love Capote's Christmas story. Is it one or two or more? I know there is one I really loved.

Breakfast at Tiffanys. Both the book and the movie were tremendous. I also remember the Mr. Bill thing. My sons were teens in the late 70's and between Mr. Bill, Gumby and David Letterman ( their personal hero), I thought I would go mad. Harper Lee.. Now there is a wonderful small woman, who lives an incredibly private life.

Being so reclusive, what gave Harper Lee the idea to write 'To Kill a Mockingbird?' I wonder.

After reading Ann's article, I guess she used her childhood in Alabama for fodder. I never knew Harper Lee had written a nonfiction book too.

Ginny, I love your illustration of the 'Lady of Shalott' by Tennyson. And you have many to show us? I can't wait to see your treasures.

Thanks for clearing that up, ANN. And another coup for Oprah. I have come to believe that in her field, Oprah is a genius. And I can understand why people will agree to be interviewed by her, when they will not for others. She can pursue a question, and still be gentle and empathic. On the other hand, when she has a prize jerk who badly needs taking down, she is more than capable of that as well.

I don't watch all her shows, but I do keep tabs of what she is presenting, so I won't miss those I'm interested in.

Babi

Hats, it was always my impression that Mockingbird was fairly autobiographical for Harper Lee. I thought that Atticus was based on her father, she was Scout, Dill was based on Capote.

It frustrates me that we drive within 30 miles of her hometown of Monroeville, AL, every year, but have never gone through there. One of these days, we will. We usually have others in the car, or are riding with someone else (as happened this year), or are going in a caravan, etc., etc. Excuses, excuses.

Mary Z, I didn't know about the autobiographical part. If Harper Lee's father is based on Atticus, she had a very wonderful and wise man for a parent.

Thanks ann. I can't really see the complete artcile and I'm still unsure as to whether she was on the show or not. Can anyone help me on that? I'm not clear yet.hats? ann?

Not Harry? Who?

And They All Died Happily Ever After

Scootz--Here's the first part of that article. I didn't look at the remainder.

"Oprah Winfrey persuades Harper Lee to write after years of silence The Independent Since completing her 1960 Pulitzer-winning novel To Kill a Mockingbird, Harper Lee has barely published a word. Two major writing projects - one a novel, the other a non-fiction work about an Alabama serial killer - were apparently started but never completed to her satisfaction. The life she has..."

The reference is to having Harper Lee write something for the magazine, O.

Pedln--There was all sorts of prepublication hoopla about the previous Potter novel and who was going to die. Remember?

I'm betting it won't be Harry. Apparently she has let it slip that a main character might die.

Deems- thanks for trying. I already knew that, and it's what I originally posted about. My concern is about her show and whether she was on it. Never mind. I give up! Sometimes I feel like I'm speaking another language from everyone else, LOL

Since we were reading the Mobile, AL, paper while we were at the beach, there was the news about Harper Lee and Oprah while we were there. Of course, I read the article - now to remember what it said....

Well, I checked the Mobile paper on line, and here's a link to the article.

Article about Oprah and Harper Lee

Since Harper Lee is 80 and has been "intensely private" for many years, I'm putting money on her NOT appearing on TV.

However, the article Mary Z just posted a link to indicates that Oprah did fly to Lee's hometown to visit with her.

I am reading Falling Angels by Tracy Chevalier (Girl with a Pearl Earring). When I started it last night, I noticed on page 13 the following, which was in the thoughts of Kitty Coleman, one of the characters.

"He was still going on about the angel when who should appear but its owners, dressed full mourning. Albert and Gertrude Waterhouse--no relation to the painter, they admitted. (Just as well--I want to scream when I see his overripe paintings at the Tate. (The Lady of Shalott in her boat looks as if she has just taken opium.)"

Have any of you read this book? It's interesting, but the way it moves from the thoughts of character to character is a bit distracting, IMO. Sue

Regarding Harper Lee- There have been some people who have written because they have a burning desire to impart a story, a particular story and once they have done it there is no desire to repeat the exercise. I believe Harper Lee may be one of these people.

Carolyn

Scootz, then that makes two of us. I was hoping your question would be answered because I, too, could only read the first paragraph, the same one that was posted! I wanted the rest, the answer to the original question--is Harper Lee going to appear on Oprah?

I give up also.

But thanks Mary for the link to the Mobile Press-Register article.

Kleo

Yes, Carolyn, that may be the situation with Harper Lee. After all, she told America's story. How many people hold two of these?

Kleo

Thank you Stephanie, I'm glad to be back!

Thank you Hats, I'm looking forward to it, too.

I have not read that, Sue, isn't that new? I seem to have seen somewhere she was on tour about it, but I may have the wrong person in mind. Here is John William Waterhouse's Lady of Shalott, I am not sure if I have the RIGHT Waterhouse, here, the name seems wrong?!? But I think this one is super, after all, she's dying and all, you can't expect her to look like an Olympic athelete running marathons. In fact, I need to reread the poem again, the others have her laid out in the boat, maybe it's when she gets where she's going. I'll reread, I'm just getting into it.

There IS one in a boat that looks like "The Scream," or some crazy distortion, melted clock type of thing, but this one, to me, is pretty.

Thanks, Ginny. I was thinking of another painting of the Lady of Shalott. Waterson must have been yet another of the Rossetti gang.

She does look like she has taken opium.

Or perhaps another drug.

But that's not why she dies in the poem.

Oh yeah there are a million depictions of her in the boat. I like that one, what's wrong with her? (that might be a good question to wait for, actually?) hahaha Oh the towers we put ourselves in.

Pedln you post the most interesting posts! Did you notice the article in the NY Times under the one on Harry Potter? It's about loneliness, today. I thought it was very interesting, it's not new but it's saying essentially that something like only 24 percent of people have somebody (I can't find it now so this may be off) to confide in personally, and it seems to slant away from the Internet while admitting that email helps. It's interesting.

I need to take that Sunday Times and just rip out the page I want to reference as I can never find it again in the huge pile which IS the Sunday Times. I must say that article on the 30,000 foot houses is quite incredible, they are SO big they make McMansions look like playhouses, have never ever seen anything like them.

Stephanie, I see Book of the Dead is 4th this week in the NY Times, what is it you don't like about Preston and Child? Too gory or?

Did you try Relic?

I see Beach Road is 2nd too and I've got it also but am enjoying what I'm reading too much to switch.

I do see one non fiction bestseller I have been hearing a lot about: Heat. It's the guy, an older guy, an editor, who changes his life by apprenticing himself in a chef's kitchen, it sounds good, have any of you read it? You could not pay me enough to do that, there is not enough money in the WORLD. Hahahaa I can't cook, for one thing. That might be an impediment? hahaaa

Ginny, the character (Kitty) who said this about Waterhouse's painting of the Lady of Shalott, is unhappy in her marriage and unhappy with the new friendship with the Waterhouse couple. The Waterhouses are a bit lower on the social scale. While Kitty is not quite top drawer as I gather her husband may be, she is an educated woman in the mid'30s who has few outlets for her intellect. Possibly more intelligent than her husband as well. I don't know where this is going to take the plot as I think the main characters are going to be the children as they grow up. It's hard to tell as each character relates events as thoughts in turn, every few pages. Sue

Ginny you can't cook? You jest surely. I have one daughter who cooks but honestly cannot cook. Her friend told her not to bring any ready cooked dishes to their beach house this weekend that they would cook from scratch over the weekend. As her friend is an excellent cook I chuckled to myself - they must have had experience of some of my lovely daughters cooking!I am waiting for someone to write a book similar to The making of an American quilt but about cooking. Perhaps it could be entitled "The creation of a pot luck dinner" I can see 7 women all cooking for this dinner and as they all gather for the meal the stories behind the recipes come out. The stories would be about their mothers or grandmothers . Anyone want to write it? It would have to be complete with the recipe heading up each story.

Carolyn

And each chapter heading would start with a new recipe! Like Pom Soup! I truly love memoirs and can see myself writing about my grandmother's family bread day--every Saturday.

Scootz and Kleo

Harper Lee was interviewed by Oprah and she has also written something for O about her favorite authors or books. Were you able to see her picture? She looks like an aging Scout. Very much resembling the little actress who played Scout in the movie. Amazing!

Ginny

I haven't welcomed you back and you came and went again?? To the Daylily farm? What a treat! I love daylillies and their lovely scent. They are planted in our complex, the village, and on our roadways into Gahanna. So cheerful to see and enjoy.

Harper Lee Writes Again E-Mail Print Reprints Save By LAWRENCE VAN GELDER Published: June 28, 2006 Ever since Harper Lee's novel, "To Kill a Mockingbird," was published in 1960 and went on to sell 2.5 million copies in its first year and win the Pulitzer Prize, the author has led a low-profile life. Ms. Lee, now 80, has published virtually nothing of significance since then except a 1983 book review. But now she has written something for publication. It is a letter for O, the Oprah Winfrey magazine, about how she became a reader as a child in a rural, Depression-era Alabama town, The Associated Press reported. In the magazine's July "special summer reading issue," Ms. Lee recalls becoming a reader before she entered first grade. Older sisters and a brother read to her; her mother read her a story a day; her father read her newspaper articles. "Then, of course, it was Uncle Wiggily at bedtime," Ms. Lee writes of the popular old-time children's character, right. She notes that books were scarce in the 1930's in the town, Monroeville, where she still lives part time; and the scarcity of books in a town without movies and parks made them a special treasure. "Now," she writes, "75 years later in an abundant society where people have laptops, cellphones, iPods and minds like empty rooms, I still plod along with books."

Here's a brief from the article:

But now, at the age of 80, Lee has been tempted to pick up her pen by another woman from the Deep South who is no less a cultural icon than she. For the July edition of Oprah Winfrey's magazine O, Lee has written a celebration of books and reading, drawn from her own experience as a child in Alabama.

There is one caught by the Pittsburg Press that is slightly serious and another that is completely charming. I think she was receiving an honor in England. Very gracious and smiling.

Harper Lee

She is evidently receiving an Honor Degree from Notre Dame in this one.

Another BBC article

Ann, thank you! I love this quote in the BBC article.

Harper Lee's quote

" Some things should happen on soft pages, not cold metal..."

Shut off the faucet! I seem to have found the mother lode of Harper Lee's non appearances!! Tee hee!

Harper Lee is reputed to have a truly serious writers block. But I believe as some of you do, that she had something important to say and once she said it, she really did not have the motivation to write more. I gather from the movie Capote, that she is quite a good researcher and did a magnificent job of getting the townspeople to accept Truman, who had to be odd to Kansas people to put it mildly. Preston and Child.. No, no , gore does not bother me, it is the florid writing that drives me nuts.

Thnaks for the links ann. I actually have her article and the new Oprah magazine.

I'm going to buy my O magazine today.

hats-

You won't be sorry. I don't usually buy it. But this issue has a lot of good things in it, summer reading list, bookmarks, (

), Harper Lee's article, an article about "How to Read a Hard Book" and other goodies.

Do WE need a summer reading list???

Do WE need a summer reading list???

LOL Ann, Probably not, but they're still fun.

Cathie, whose TBR shelf is already spilling over into extra bookcases

_____________________________________________________________________

I'm reading a very good book right now for my f2f group for August. It's called THE MEMORY KEEPER'S DAUGHTER by Kim Edwards. Here's the deal- In the midst of a blizzard, a doctor delivers his own twins. The first child born, a son, is healthy. But the second child has Down's Syndrome.Without telling his wife, the doctor has the attending nurse take the child to an institution. Problem is, she doesn't- she keeps the child herself to raise. The wife, meanwhile is told that her second child died. Each of these persons has made a decision based on their own past, and their choices will have repercussions for years to come. This is going to make for one "kick butt" discussion group, if you will pardon my vernacular.

It is very well written and the author has won several literary awards. She's an assistant professor of English at University of Kentucky . I mention these facts so you know this is no mass market paperback bit of fluff.

I can't put it down.

Scootz, I think you and Ann have convinced me. I'm going to have to buy that issue of "O." That will be a first for me, but you did say "bookmarks," didn't you? And "How to Read a Hard Book." Oh, yes.

Oh good! Maybe we can discuss some of the article here. (?)Sounds like fun.

SCOOTZ, do give us a follow-up on the f2f discussion of "The Memory Keepers Daughter". I love hearing about a good 'kick-butt' discussion.

...Babi

Florid prose? Preston and Child? Then Stephanie, don't pick up their latest!

Yes, they're a bit over the top. I love their books because their topics are so thrilling and fun to me. However, yes, their prose is stylistically a bit difficult to take even for those, like me and my mother, who love reading their books.

Kleo

In the Oprah mag, there is an article about hard books. I haven't yet read it, only skimmed it. The four books mentioned are MOBY DICK, (read it in high school but would love to read it now that I'm older), Proust's IN SEARCH OF TIME, Tolstoy's WAR AND PEACE, and lastly, THE MAN WITHOUT QUALITIES by Robert Musil.

One of these days I would dearly love to attempt WAR AND PEACE but I feel I can't do it alone. (hint, hint).

What can you all tell me about Marcel Proust? And tell me something besides he's hard because that's the one thing I already know.

The last book by Musil, I have never, ever heard of. Anyone?

When you think of a hard book, what comes to your mind? For me, it'd be WAR AND PEACE, mainly because of all the characters. It just seems so daunting.

Scootz, I have my copy of Oprah's magazine. I haven't opened it yet. I am going to sit down and read it now. I can't wait.

War and Peace is not so daunting. At least it wasn't but then again I read it when I was quite young and had a much better short term memory. These days I would need a notebook to take notes as I read about who was who in the novel! LOL! I bought a book of Sudoku puzzles and I realise how much slower my brain is nowdays! Still puzzles help to keep the brain going. Anyone else hooked on Sudoku?

Carolyn

Yes Carolyn, I think it's pedln who's also hooked on those puzzles. I wish we could do WAP together here. (sniff, sniff)

Carolyn, I'm almost (not quite) ashamed to admit I probably could have read War and Peace in the time I've spent on Sudoku.

That's probably analogous (spelling?) to the people who read food labels for fat content and then buy them regardless.

I read War and Peace about 30 years ago and recall that in the beginning of the book was a listing of all the characters in their family and political clusters along with their alternative names (two or three for everyone). So by referring to this list (religiously) there was no confusion, only beautiful writing and wisdom and history. Last year I bought the unabridged audio version which is simply wonderful and is making the rounds of the family. I'll go for reading it again if it is chosen on Seniornet.

book lists for summer: Did anyone else see the books display that ABC Morning did this morning? They had the books all laid out on tables according to subject and so the 3 hosts went around and picked up the actual books and made comments on what looked interesting or what they might have read. It was a great way to do a book display - and made you wish you could pick up and read one that was being reccommended....sort of like all the NYT Best sellers all together in one. Bet there will be a surge at bookstores today and this week, as a result isak

Hi Elizabeth,

My copy of WAR AND PEACE has a listing of the characters as well. It includes family name, place where they live, and then two maps. It's the new B&N Classic edition.

HARD BOOKS: I've read three of the four, but never heard of Musil. Does anyone know anything about him? Where are Ulysses and Finnagan's Wake?

recommended:

PROUST: I've only read the first of (I have no idea how many) volumes. I recommend the first BOOK of the first volume (about 120 pages) dealing with his childhood. I read the more recent translation, called "In Search of Lost Time" (a literal translation of the French). It's easier to read than the older translation, called "Rememberance of Things Past". There are sentences in it that take up a whole page. Be sure to stop and breathe in the middle. I tend to breathe with the rhythm of what I'm reading, and I would find myself turning purple. But there are passages in it that are so luminous they are worth the price.

WAR AND PEACE: I love Tolstoy. I've read W&P 2 or 3 times and Anna Karinina 4 times! But it helps if you are willing to skip or skim. He gets off on his hobby horses and preaches and preaches. You have to be willing to say "There you go again, Leo. Why on earth didn't you get a good editor?" and just turn the page. Be sure to get an edition of W&P that either explains the names or even better translates them into modern form.

Please watch for our Welcome letter.

I've read and loved Tolstoy's War and Peace many times. As someone raised on Russian names I object to the ones that translate the names and omit the patronymics because then there really is NO way to keep people straight. I've tried it once and had to keep looking at the card that came with the book. However, with patronymics Russian names are easy--if you're used to them. But translating them removes the history and family of the Russian.

I would love to read W&P with a group in here. It is, as I've said many times, quite simply the best romp through a war ever written. Tolstoy is NOT a hard read, except, well, I'll grant Joan K's description of Tolstoy's preachy little soap boxes. Tolstoy is not hard, though. He is a story teller. One of the best the world has ever known. He's not about depth like Proust or that obscure Austrian that few have heard of and no one has read (and like Proust, I hear the first book is good). Tolstoy makes you want to read him.

Kleo

I love the Proust serie but the language has to be used to first.

KIwi lady I so sudoku everyday as relaxation and also have a book in the car for when I need to wait.

Hi Everyone, I've only posted a couple of times before. Had planned to be a part of the discussion on "The Professor's House", but didn't keep up. However, I've been reading the postings for the Book Nook for some time and feel like I know some of you already.

Scootz: I was glad to hear that you are enjoying THE MEMORY KEEPER'S DAUGHTER by Kim Edwards. I bought that book recently but haven't started it yet. I'll put it at the top of my list. By the way, about your question concerning Harper Lee appearing on Oprah...I "Tivo" Oprah everyday and watch just those programs that I'm interested in. I'm fairly certain that Harper Lee has never been on her program -- just in the "O" magazine.

Ginny: I don't know very much about the Lady of Shalott poem. I read it while searching for information on Pre-Raphaelite artists. I love their paintings and have a few books on them. Here is a link for a Lady of Shalott gallery:

Lady of Shalott Gallery

That's a long user name! We have pretty much solved the Harper Lee appearances and if you look back in the posts, about 20 or so ago, you will find many links as to what she did or did not do.

I'm fairly certain that Harper Lee has never been on her program -- just in the "O" magazine.

Hurrah! Thank you, winchesterlady. By now, I've assumed that my husband just got the information wrong. I really couldn't imagine her appearing on tv.

Do let me know when you get to MKD. WE can discuss it then.

Welcome, and hope you'll start posting more and more.

kleo- patrynomics? (sp.?) what are those again now?

kleo and joank- thanks so much for your comments on Proust. His book doesn't seem like anything I would want to venture into. I guess I just needed confirmation on that. Next visit to B&N, I'll glance at one of his and yes, the first book in the series is the one discussed in this article.

Happy 4th of July to Everyone!

Ann,

Lovely! And I especially appreciated how many wonderful Texas Bluebonnets were in the eagle at the end!!

Love to see the dogwoods also- miss them from my days back East. And lilacs- what a beautiful scent.

I used to subscribe to Lawson's site but didn't this year. This was a new card for me. Thanks for sharing.

I didn't know you lived in Texas. I am reading Molly Ivens book "Who Let In The Dogs" and really enjoying her take on her state of Texas. We lived there in the '50's and loved every minute of it. Our home was in Austin where the state capital resides. I'm not sure who was running for what the year of '54 but I was working at Western Union and all of the results came to us via the telegraph machines where we then sent out telegrams to the pertinent folks in election offices. Quite exciting for me as a very young newly-wed.

Molly Ivans,, Oh I do so love her. She is so Texas and over the top and such fun to read. I like the Memory Keeper book and will look for it. I will wear a black mask and go and get the Oprah magazine since I love Harper Lee.. but How to REad a hard book.. I sometimes wonder where they get their ideas for articles. The magazines devoted to a star Oprah, Martha, Rachel Ray do not appeal, but I want the Harper Lee article. Sigh. Soduku.. My everyday along with computer solitaire vice.. I have a mathematical son who does only 5 star puzzles of it, but I need easier ones to keep my cool with. Then again, he did Rubiks cube the day he bought it and drove me nuts with envy.

Yes, Ann, we came here in '82- so been here now for 24 years. I live north of Dallas about 20 miles or so.

Austin is a great city- don't go there too much but have enjoyed it immensely. It's a big growth area.

Where do you live now?

Stephanie- didn't get your "black mask" comment. I don't buy Oprah either as a rule, but I made an exception here. Her big "O" on every dang thing rubs me the wrong way. Ok already!

Scootz, my parents were both born in Bonham, Fannin County - and I grew up in Houston. All our girls were born there - but we're now proud Tennesseans.

My vice is double crostic word puzzles - never travel without a book of them. I also work the jumbles and cryptograms in the papers. John does the crossword puzzles and occasionally the Sudoku.

But I always take a book in the car and to appointments - don't want to get caught without something to read.

Maryz-

I know Bonham- we used to pass by it every time we went up to Lake Texoma. I've never been to Tennessee but it looks beautiful. No real natural beauty here in Texas, imho. Not as compared to other pataes I've lived in.

Online, my addiction is Scrabble. Started playing about four years ago online and never looked back.

Did anyone see footage of the fireworks behind Mount Rushmore on tv this morning? Talk about spectacular! I like to watch the live tv fireworks from Boston, Dc, etc. They're on tonight.

The America card is just gorgeous. Thank you.

Happy Fourth of July to All Bookies!

Scootz, I haven't played Scrabble on line. Do you play against a program or other people (live)? What site do you use? I do jigsaw puzzles on line.

Ann,

Your 4th of July card was beautiful. I've never seen one like that. Am now thinking of subscribing to the site myself.

Carol (much shorter name!)

MaryZ- I play against real people at www.isc.ru. You need to downlaod the program but the play is free.

Thanks, Scootz, I'll check it out.

p.s. Are you sure that's the right address? I got a Russian site about web design.

Sorry- that www.isc.ro not ru at the end. It's in Romania of all places. Hope that works now.

Try www.isc.ro/

for Scrabble online.

Thanks, Scootz and Deems!

...for the welcome; I hope to be a faithful participant for a good long time. I did love and use this site some time ago, but then Life took hold, and now widowed, three moves later and in another state--here I am--ready for some good clean fun!

Elizabeth, this is a great place to come back to. I did, too, and it is so welcoming and stimulating, such caring folks. Jigsaws are my daily ritual, too, but there is a game on Windows that is dringing me nuts. It is called Brickshooter: Egypt. Crosswords, too, are fun,b ut I've not gotten bitten by the Sudoku bug yet. W&P would be a long-term project, I assume? Interesting comment about the patrynomics. Ive read Bothers Karamazov, but that was long ago and I'm sure much went over my head. Checkov and Dostoyevsky (?), there seems to be a thread of fatalism in Russian and Scandanavian lit that I've read. But I've often wondered what it would be like to live where centuries of my ancestors lived. Everything in the West is so new; old is 200 years! The American spirit of expoloration, of seeking to extend frontiers, is something we extract from our mother's milk. We admire people who take up everything and move to a new place. Takes me a real mental twist to get into the minds of people who have lived in one place for thousands of years.

We are a new country too but apart from our kids who go overseas to work at some time or another after graduation, most Kiwis do not move about. I have lived in Auckland almost all my life except for a three year sojourn to a very small town when I was in my early twenties. Some kiwis do move at retirement age to smaller cities to retirement communities or to their beach house selling up the city home to free capital.

Carolyn

Well, Scootz, there are some lovely spots in Texas, tho' I grant you there are way too many square miles of scrub brush. I guess you have to be a minimalist to appreciate some parts of the Texas and the West.

On Proust, what little I've sampled of him leaves me with the feeling one must desire to do penance, to want to read him. "War and Peace" I enjoyed, and "Moby Dick", but I've never heard of the other one. (What was it? I;ve forgotten already.)

Babi

I looked at Proust today at B&N- um, nope, don't think I'll be reading that any time soon. Looks so dry. Gadzooks!

The new Nathaniel Philbrick came home with us instead- MAYFLOWER. Looks good. Dan is on his second Bligh book and this one will come next. I'll get to it sooner or later. And no doubt he'll be giving me a blow by blow as he goes along.

Off to make tiny peach crumb pies and read some more of MEMORY KEEPER'S DAUGHTER.

KLEO- I keep meaning to ask you if you've read DANIEL DERONDA? I feel a George Eliot novel coming on pretty soon and this one seems to keep calling me from the shelf.

Babi--The fourth one was "The Man Without Qualities"

With a title like that, you'd think it would be hard to keep enough copies in print, wouldn't you??

"Tiny peach crumb pies?" <sigh> SCOOTZ, I do wish you lived closer to me than Dallas.

Babi

Winchester Lady,

I second Scootz in cheering your straightforward response to our question. Thank you.

"I "Tivo" Oprah everyday and watch just those programs that I'm interested in. I'm fairly certain that Harper Lee has never been on her program -- just in the "O" magazine."

Yeah!

"The magazines devoted to a star Oprah, Martha, Rachel Ray do not appeal, but I want the Harper Lee article. Sigh" black mask Stephanie

Now, Stephanie, no black mask or they'll think you're holding up the store. I want to read the Harper Lee article, too, but would rather die than be caught buying that magazine. However, I'll bite the bullet if you do, too. It's the Fourth, so I'm going to sneak it in between my racks of ribs and soda and chips.

The American spirit of exploration, of seeking to extend frontiers, is something we extract from our mother's milk." Mrs. Sherlock

My Russian ancestors were Russian explorers, however, all of my ancestors were as they had to have that spirit in order to want to come to America in the first place. It does intrigue me reading the books of my ancestors. But, yes, the Russians and Swedes seem to go overboard to plumb the depths of sorrow. But War and Peace is not like this.

Patronymics are the middle names that Russians use that are derived from their father's given name. For example my mother's name is Alexandra Innokentovna, her brother is Innokenty Innokentovich, and their father's name was Innokenty Pablovich, and his father was named Pablo, of course. Russians use first names plus patronymics as forms of address. When my mother works in Russia the Russians are very glad that she has a proper name, unlike the other Americans named John or Sam.

Scandinavian countries often used patronymics as surnames, as did some other countries, which is why we have surnames in America like Nielson, Wilson.

In Sweden, until the early 20th century, single names were the usual. An exception was that students selected a surname when they registered for university. Linnaeus' father selected the name Linnaeus as a surname after a large linden tree (Tilia) that grew on the family farm. So, you may know that Linnaeus named a lot of plants, but did you know that the linden tree named Linnaeus?

Oh, Scootz, a George Eliot would be perfect. I have not read Daniel Deronda and think it would be the perfect Eliot right now. I'm going to go get a copy! I have not read Eliot in ages and feel that I need a sure-fire perfect book. I could not do Middlemarch with the group, even though I suggested it as a read. It wasn't the right time for me for that particular book.

Kleo

I have never even heard of Daniel DeRonda!

Carolyn

I have to admit I have not enjoyed that many of Oprahs pot boilers but if they get the masses reading she has done a good job. Its good she is introducing classics as well.

Carolyn

Thanks for all that information, kleo. When I read BROTHERS KARAMAZOV, i had some difficulty with all the NICKnames. I'd constantly have to refer to the chart to see "is that the same person as such and such"?

I just finished the Harper Lee article- it's short, very short, one might even say. You could read it glancing through the mag at B&N- she said pointedly.

There's a picture in Oprah magazine about books shelves showing a pile of books with DEATH OF VISHNU prominent among them. I spotted it right off. Also SNOW by Pamuk so I guess we do some pret-ty dang good reading here in our groups.

babi- I'll have a moment of silence and think of you tonight when I have my peach pie.

Thanks for the hint, Scootz. I would feel much better about that.

I forgot that Russians are notorious users of diminutives, or nicknames. Okay, I'll grant that the excessive use of diminutives in addition to the patronymics can be a bit much for the average non-Russian reader. A problem is that there are very few Russian names, so one needs the patronymics to keep characters clear, but then folks can have a handful of diminutives, too. Or one diminutive can be used for various names.

Kleo

Gee, thanks, SCOOTZ.

Babi

Beautiful card, Ann. Thanks so much.

Welcome Carol -- Winchesterlady -- and Elizabeth. I'm so glad you both found your way here.

Someone mentioned the fireworks behind Mt. Rushmore. I would have loved to have seen those. Last summer I drove from Missouri to Seattle and spent part of a day at Mt. Rushmore. What a wonder. And it's one place where you can't get a bad photo.

But watching on TV the space shuttle Discovery lift off today was a thrill and I'm glad they waited until July 4. Most appropriate, and what a beautiful site our country must have been to those on board.

And then, in the next news breath -- the North Koreans made their launch. Do you think they planned it for July 4 -- just to rub salt on the wounds?

I'm leaving Friday for Charlottesville. My youngest, the Cville kid turns 40 on Saturday. We're going to spend two days in Richmond so I'll get to the Poe Museum and she wants to go to the Botanical Gardens there. Any other suggestions? I've never been to Richmond before. Then down to Newport News to see Anna Alexander.

And if you want a say in Read Around the World don't forget to vote. Through Thursday, July 6.

Happy July 4 to all.

...the North Koreans made their launch. Do you think they planned it for July 4 -- just to rub salt on the wounds?

Not a doubt in my mind.

I hope you'll report back to us all about the Poe museum. Can you take pictures to share, pedln?

Crossword puzzles and jigsaw puzzles are my weaknesses. I haven't secumbed to sedoku yet.

Friday, I saw the movie "Word Play" about crossword puzzles, Will Shortz the NYTimes crossword editor, and the annual crossword competition for 2005. I was looking closely to see if our Seniornet volunteer, Manny Novotsky, crossword constructer extrordinaire (including a tough a one in last Friday's Times) was there. I might have seen him in the distance. Were you there, Manny?

It was well worth seeing. A lot of fun. I think even a non-fan would enjoy it. They had it set up so you could be guessing some of the words with the participants. I admit, it made me feel somewhat inferior -- the champion solved a Sunday puzzle in under 5 minutes!! (I won't tell you how long it took me to do Manny's)

Richmond has a lovely civil war museum and also they own and I think you can still tour the Confederate White House, which used to be the museum.. Now the museum is a separate air conditioned building. The Poe Museum is neat. The statues that parade down a main street are wonderful.. There is a glorious park there and a whole section of town is very funky and arty and fun.. I always read People in my dentist office,, maybe he would have Oprah.. or the Doctor.. I am going to slip over to Borders and I could try there. I cannot imagine that anything in the magazine is something I want except for Harper Lee.. I just read a new book and author ( book is old actually_ She is English.. Marianne Macdonald. She writes about Dido who owns a rare book store in the suburbs of London.. I loved it. Deaths Autograph and plan on finding more of her. It is a mystery but also a tutorial on rare books in many ways.. Interesting.

re the Harper Lee article- not worth the price of the mag, I am almost afraid to say. It's very short, you can read it in a trice (or whatever that word is). Interesting because it was done by Lee, but otherwise, nothing that's gonna shake your world.

For me, the rest of the mag was more interesting- hard books, new lists, etc.

We have another Classics student appearing briefly in the film Wordplay (which has not come here but which I am desperate to see) and that is Zulema, a Greek student. I'm not sure Manny is in the Books or is reading this but I'll let him know, Joan K, I wish I could do crosswords, for some reason I am not smart enough to work them fully, but I do like puzzles.

Thank you Carol for that wonderful link to the Lady of Shalott illustrations, there were some there I did not have! I am envisioning a new one a day for the discussion in November, we've certainly got enough fodder, can't wait for it.

Stephanie, you don't like Preston and Childs' writing? I was going to put this in the Classics Forum area anyway, here we are moving thru the sub basements of the Museum of Natural History in NYC, it's kind of like The DaVinci Code in a way but I'm enjoying learning about this stuff. We're GOING after a bricked up exhibit of an Egyptian Tomb (remind you all of anything??). One of the authors used to work in the Museum and knows it intimately, here's a description of it:

McCorkle began rolling up the top blueprint. "The museum consists of thirty-four interconnected buildings, with a footprint of more than six acres, over two million square feet of space, and eighteen miles of corridors—and that's not even counting the sub-basement tunnels which no one's ever surveyed or diagrammed. I once tried to figure out how many rooms there were in this joint, gave up when I hit a thousand. It's been under constant construction and renovation for every single one of its hundred and forty years. That's the nature of a museum—collections get moved around, rooms get joined together, others get split apart and renamed. And a lot of these changes are made on the fly, without blueprints."

I like learning about stuff, too, when I read. I do note an unfortunate tend to "chuckle," in this one, hopefully the chucklers will stifle, so far they've chuckled three times a la Langdon in Code hahahaa. (These guys wrote this kind of book first, but I don't recall any chuckling in the previous ones. Chuckle Patrol!!) So they are off to find an exhibit abandoned when the 81st Street subway station's connecting tunnel was constructed.

Now if you know Preston and Childs the mention of a subway tunnel and a hidden bricked up exhibit probably sends shudders down your spine, they are not for the faint of heart, (something), emphasis on the THING , is down there. I'll let you know if it's as bad as Relic (or not) but that's all, I'm off on adventure!! I loved Relic and thought Reliquary was somewhat preposterous till I found out that yes, indeed, there is more than a rumor of people living in abandoned subway tunnels in NYC. I did not even know they existed!

I have heard there are some priceless things in the basements of every museum, no space to exhibit them!

The last time I went to the Louvre, my pedometer said 27 miles walked at the end of the day. Everybody thought it was broken but my feet knew. Reading this and remembering the times I got lost in the Louvre and had to double back and the Louvre is much bigger (I think?) I am not surprised at all with the 27.

Marvelle, if you're out there, I'm still reading the Jashemski and I really like the way she puts in, for instance, in the case of Torre Annuziata at the end, the old illustrations of what the seaside villas may have looked like. I just came from Oplontis and I'm finding her brief (as it was not as excavated then) description and photos fascinating (and the statuary she saw is long gone, what a pity). Incredible place, I was just speechless. I'm going to use one of the illustrations today in our Rembrandt discussion. I appreciate your recommending it.

I hope you all had a great 4th, we shot off fireworks, we have now for 26 years, and this year for some reason we could clearly see others, so we were surrounded with great pyrotechnics. If you live where they are legal, you can actually put up some pretty spectacular ones, yourself, by using "cakes," and firing more than one off at a time. Our finale was "One Bad Mother" and she sure was, it's amazing what you can do. They are legal here in SC and since we live on a farm, there's no hazard to neighbors (who themselves are sending them off, you can see them for miles, pretty spiffy). It was really great.

Wonderful, colorful card, Ann! Thanks so much! I love it!

So, I went to Borders and parked on the bench in front of the magazines display and read the article in "O".

You're right, Scootz, it would not be worth the $4.50, unless you found something else in the magazine of interest.

You're right, Scootz, it would not be worth the $4.50, unless you found something else in the magazine of interest

Phew! Thanks Pat. I have been concerned about that after sorta recoomending it. I didn't get to actually read the article till yesterday. I hate to think anyone would buy it just on my say so and then be as disappointed as I was- in that article, that is.

No, I wasn't at the puzzle tournament in 2005, but I have been there many times in the last 16 years, and I was there a few months ago in 2006 since they were using one of my puzzles. It's otherwise an increasingly unpleasant trip for me from San Francisco to Kennedy Airport, and then the extra shuttle ride from Kennedy to the Marriott Hotel in Stamford, Conn.

I thought the best line in the movie was given by Ellen Ripstein, the tournament winner of a few years ago. Apparently, her boyfriend was dissing her for being 'just another puzzle nerd,' and her reply was, "And what are YOU the best in America in?"

Manny Nosowsky
San Francisco

...way to go, Manny! Do stop into Books & Lit. whenever you can!

Hi Manny, it's good to see you here in Books. I hope you come here again.

Last Friday or Saturday I was browsing in the the Wall Street Journal and pulled up the crossword puzzle, wondering if it might be one of Manny's and lo and behold, it was -- called "Irregular Meals." And it even stayed on my screen after I went off-line, so I had the whole day to work on. Haha -- can't claim to have finished it. Guess I do better at Sudoku because there are only nine things to remember.

Stephanie, thanks for the Richmond input.

Has anyone here read Roberston Davies? I read his DEPTFORD TRILOGY a few years back and have always wanted to read another by him. Many of his books are in trilogies, so I'd want to be sure once I started. Anyone? I think his last book was A CUNNING MAN. He died not that long ago.

Ginny, have you seen or heard about Margaret George's new book, 'Helen of Troy?' I thought you and others might find it interesting.

Helen of Troy

Hi Scootz, I have never read 'The Deptford Trilogy.' The title is a little frightening. Is it about the Economic world? I'm curious. What is it about? Who is Robertson Davies? Could you give a clickable or clickables?

hats- I need to go get some coffee, but I'll come back in a bit and post some about Robertson Daviesand his books for you since you're interested. For now, here's a quote from him-

A truly great book should be read in youth, again in maturity and once more in old age, as a fine building should be seen by morning light, at noon and by moonlight. Robertson Davies

Here is a link to "everything you'd ever want to know about Robertson Davis, and then some" .

All About Robertson Davies

I knew about him for a long time since I am Canadian born and my parents are still there. When I would visit, I would see his books much more prominently displayed than here in the US. A few years ago, I decided to try a writer that I had heard about for so long. So, I read FIFTH BUSINESS which is the first book in his DEPTFORD TRILOGY. Once I read the first, reading the second and third were a must. I had to find out "who killed Boy Staunton"?

That's the only thing I've read of his and once in a while I think of trying another. The fact that they are trilogies keeps me from diving in again. I may have to hit the used bookstores and pick up another. He's a wonderful writer, very acclaimed, literary for sure and not to every taste.

This from B&N.com, about FIFTH BUSINESS-

FROM THE PUBLISHER Ramsay is a man twice born, a man who has returned from the hell of the battle-grave at Passchendaele in World War I decorated with the Victoria Cross and destined to be caught in a no man's land where memory, history, and myth collide. As Ramsay tells his story, it begins to seem that from boyhood, he has exerted a perhaps mystical, perhaps pernicious, influence on those around him. His apparently innocent involvement in such innocuous events as the throwing of a snowball or the teaching of card tricks to a small boy in the end prove neither innocent nor innocuous.

Fifth Business stands alone as a remarkable story told by a rational man who discovers that the marvelous is only another aspect of the real. One of the splendid literary enterprises of this decade. (Peter Prescott, Newsweek)

A marvelously enigmatic novel, elegantly written and driven by irresistible narrative force. (The New York Times)