Author Topic: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online (Read 106682 times)

JoanP · « **Reply #360 on:** August 12, 2009, 10:29:24 PM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. everyone is welcome to join in.

People of the Book - by Geraldine Brooks

You'll fall in love with Hanna Heath, Geraldine Brooks' edgy Aussie rare book expert with an attitude, a loner with a real passion for her work. How could she refuse this opportunity of a lifetime, the conservation of the beautifully illustrated Sarajevo Haggadah, the mysterious Hebrew manuscript, created in Spain in the 14th century?

The invitation will bring Hanna into war-torn Bosnia in the spring of 1996 and then, into the world of fine art forgers and international fanatics. Her intuitive investigation of the manuscript will put her in a time capsule to medieval Spain and then back to Northern Australia again with a number of stops along the way. This is based on the travels of an actual manuscript, which has surfaced over the centuries since its creation in Spain.

Discussion Schedule:

July 15-19 ~ Hanna, 1996; Insect's Wing;
   Sarajevo, 1940
July 20-24 ~ Hanna, Vienna, 1996; Feathers and a Rose;
Hanna, Vienna, Spring '96
July 25-July 31 ~ ~ Wine Stains, Venice 1609;
   Hanna, Boston, 1996
August 1 - August 5 ~ Saltwater, Tarragona, 1492;
   Hanna, London, Spring, 1996
August 6-August 10 ~ White Hair, Seville, 1480;
   Hanna, Sarajevo, Spring, 1996
August 11-15 Lola, Jerusalem, 2002;
   Hanna, Gunumeleng, 2002
August 16-August 20 Afterword & Conclusions

(click twice to really enlarge)

Topics for Discussion
August 16-August 20 ~ "Afterword" ~ Conclusions
(These questions come from several different sources. Please feel free to add your own.)

1. Some say the "Afterword" should have been located at the start of the book. What do you think? Why do you think the decision was made to place it at the end?

2. In what ways is the Sarajevo Haggadah symbolic of the plight of the Jewish people over the years? Would you say that this became the main theme of the book or do you see an even broader theme?

3. Did Geraldine Brooks conceive a believable history of the Sarajevo Haggadah based on the little that is known of its history? Do you think the different chapters, which told different stories, hung together well?

4. There is an amazing array of “people of the book”—both base and noble—whose lifetimes span some remarkable periods in human history. Who is your favorite?

5. Did you connect with Hanna? Did you find her relationships with her mother and Orzen believable? What did they add to the overall story?

6. Hanna's mother justifies her poor parenting through her feminist ideals. How did you see women's situation change over the years? Do you think Hanna's mothers attitude was necessary to bring about permanent change for women?

7. Do you think the suspenseful ending fit with the rest of the book? Were you surprised by what happened? If you were Hanna, would you have forgiven Orzen?

8. What is this book? It involves secrets, but is it a mystery? A thriller?

9. When Hanna implores Ozren to solicit a second opinion on Alia’s condition, he becomes angry and tells her, “Not every story has a happy ending.” Do you believe this story had a happy ending?

10. After having read this book, can you understand why it has been tops on best seller lists throughout the world? How would you rate this book on a scale of 1-5?

Relevant Links:
Geraldine Brooks - Background information; Sarajevo Haggadah; Early Haggadah Manuscripts; Illuminated Manuscripts; Brief History of Illuminating Manuscripts; Around Sevlle Image Gallery;

Discussion Leaders: JoanP, Ann , JoanK, & Traudee

Gumtree · « **Reply #361 on:** August 12, 2009, 10:52:57 PM »

JoanP Thanks for posting that Kakadu site - I saw it a few days ago but then couldn't find it again

Here's something about the Mimi spirit paintings - and yes Hanna would have been working on a similar piece.

www.aboriginalartonline.com/art/rock2.php

Gumtree · « **Reply #362 on:** August 12, 2009, 11:36:06 PM »

Here's more rockart - this time located in the Kimberley region of Western Australia. Click on the photo gallery for a few more images

www.kimberleycoastalcamp.com.au/rockart.asp

and a 'twisted' gum -

www.flickr.com/photos/bhojman/2894804828

Babi · « **Reply #363 on:** August 13, 2009, 08:44:38 AM »

I think it was Werner Heinrich that tipped the scale for Hanna, JOANK. she
would not have backed down for Ozren, but Heinrich had been her teacher and
mentor. More than that, he had been a friend who seemed to treasure that
friendship. An adopted Uncle, so to speak. She respected his knowledge and
experience, and could not imagine a betrayal. It was a cruel thing to do.

JoanK · « **Reply #364 on:** August 13, 2009, 01:02:28 PM »

GUMTREE: your link was lovely:

'Larry Jakamarra Nelson, a Warlpiri man and teacher of the old traditions who lives at Yuendumu in the Northern Territory, says:

"When I look at my tjukurrpa [dreaming] paintings it makes me feel good - happy in kuturu (heart), spirit. Everything is there: all there in the caves, not lost. This is my secret side. This is my home - inside me . . . Our dreaming, secret side - we must hold on to this, like our fathers, looking after it . . . We give to our sons when we die. The sons keep this from their fathers, grandfathers. The sons will remember, they can carry on, not be lost. And it is still there - fathers' country with rockhole, painted cave . . . The people keep their ceremony things and pictures - they make them new. They bring young boys for learning to the caves - telling the stories, giving the laws from grandfathers' fathers, learning to do the paintings - tjukurrpa way".
(From the preface to Elaine Godden and Jutta Malnic, Rock Paintings of Aboriginal Australia)'

Persian · « **Reply #365 on:** August 13, 2009, 04:57:34 PM »

This morning the Head Librarian in an area library inquired what books the SeniorLearn group was enjoying, so I mentioned this discussion. Perhaps there will be a few newcomers checking in.

Mahlia

JoanP · « **Reply #366 on:** August 13, 2009, 06:08:43 PM »

That sounds great, Mahlia. We would welcome newcomers - We look forward to hearing your own reactions to the book too!

Thanks for the great site, Gum -and the picture of the twisted gum tree. Are all gum trees "twisted?" Do they grow twisted in Perth?

JoanK - reading the comments of the Warlpiri teacher of the old traditions in Yuendumu in the Northern Territory, I remember again how Hanna changed while she lived and worked there - for the better. Stronger - her spirits improved. I got the feeling that she was happy there. True, she's alone...
I'm not quite sure that she just fell back into Ozren's arms again. Not the new and improved Hanna. Perhaps I need to reread the last of that chapter...I don't think he's someone to trust.

Babi - I guess the survival of the book meant more to Werner than Hanna did. I can accept that. But did he really think that Hanna would accept his opinion? An even bigger question, did he know that he would be destroying her confidence and her career?
I perked up when I read that he had retired - in Vienna - thought we were going to hear more about the silver clasps. I wonder why GB had him retire there. Any ideas?

straudetwo · « **Reply #367 on:** August 13, 2009, 07:28:55 PM »

"A picture is worth a thousand words", they say. How true!
We are fortunate to have the links to photographs of Aboriginal rockart to look at right here.
Thank you.

Hanna had no chance. No one would have believed HER word against that of the two men, especially her mentor, renowned for his expertise. She could have thrown a tantrum -- and then she would have been ridiculed as a hysterical female. She did the only thing, "she turned away and walked out of the room" (pg. 326). With dignity, true, but her self-confidence was shattered, her professional reputation suffered.
She did important work, following in the footsteps of a father she had never known and whom she probabaly would never have heard about, had it not been for the accident her mother was involved in.
How the memory must have grated on her!

Ozren's treachery was absolutely unforgivable. And after all that she falls into his arm again?
"He reached for me. This time I didn't pull back."
Mercy!

PatH · « **Reply #368 on:** August 13, 2009, 08:25:04 PM »

Quote from: JoanP on August 13, 2009, 06:08:43 PM

I perked up when I read that he had retired - in Vienna - thought we were going to hear more about the silver clasps. I wonder why GB had him retire there. Any ideas?

Werner had lived in Vienna for much of his professional life. That's where Hanna studied with him, and visited him later when she was following up the book's history. So he didn't move there, he just stayed where he was, a natural thing to do.

What interests me more is: how could he bring himself to do the forgery and hide the book where he did? Good reasons are given. His concern for preserving manuscripts at all cost results from his past history, he very reasonably is skeptical of the book's safety in Sarajevo, he feels that Israel is its rightful place, etc. But still: he is hiding the book where no one knows it's there. It's just sitting on a shelf, not in a controlled climate, wedged up between other books, where anything could happen to it. Lola dusts it with reverence, but someone else might just turn the vacuum cleaner on it. Hanna is afraid even to touch it without gloves and a special stand to rest it on.

Six years later, when Amitai tries to get the real truth out of Werner, Werner is ill and pretty much out of it. It takes hours to piece together anything coherent from what he says. Perhaps he was already deteriorating. At the time Hanna first spots the forgery, he is described as very shaky. Of course he could also be shaky at the thought of what he had done.

Ozren goes along with it because he is half crazy in the first stages of grief for his son, and Werner is very persuasive.

JoanP · « **Reply #369 on:** August 13, 2009, 08:59:05 PM »

PatH, do you find yourself agreeing with Werner - that the book really belongs in Israel? From the start, I thought there was something wrong with the picture - that the book really didn't belong in Sarajevo. But if not there, where it was sold by the Kohen family, then where does it belong? I remember thinking about the Elgin Marbles - in the British Museum. I sided with those who believed they belonged in Greece, where they were created. But where does this book belong? It was created in Spain after all. Does it belong in Spain? Werner thinks it belongs with the Jewish people in Jerusalem because of all they suffered. I'm not so sure I agree with that either. Who believes the Haggadah belongs in Sarajevo, raise your hand!

I would love to see it some day. Even a facsimile. In September we will be in Munich and Prague. I would love to know if the Museums in each of these nearby countries have a copy on display. I don't think we'll be in Sarajevo....

JoanP · « **Reply #370 on:** August 13, 2009, 09:03:35 PM »

Quote

She did important work, following in the footsteps of a father she had never known

Traudee, it seems that Hanna is working to preserve the rock art in Australia as part of the work associated with her father's foundation. Does this mean that she accepted the Sharansky family's request that she take over the administration of the foundation from her mother? What did you think of their request? I'm curious.

PatH · « **Reply #371 on:** August 13, 2009, 09:30:03 PM »

I'll raise my hand. I agree with JoanK that there is a certain satisfaction in having the Haggadah come to Israel for a while, but that doesn't mean that Israel is its home. Haggadahs belong wherever there are Jewish families using them to keep the traditions of their faith. This one has had a long history of wandering, and is also a great work of art, but it's still a Haggadah, has found a home in Sarajevo, and was used there in the way it was meant to be used, so I think it's a perfectly appropriate place for it.

straudetwo · « **Reply #372 on:** August 13, 2009, 11:11:28 PM »

JoanP
Oh yes. Definitely.

Jonah Sharansky called Hanna to tell her (1) that Delilah had left her a substantial heritage and (2) the family wanted her to take over her mother's role in Aaron's foundation. The other board members had already voted on it, he told her. In the last paragraph on p. 341 Hanna says,
"My mother went spare when she found out she'd been given the shove."

There's a (final) meeting between mother and daughter at which Dr. Sarah attempts to convince Hanna to turn down the job !! Hah!! On p. 345 Hanna tells us:

"I don't see her anymore. We don't even go through the motions. Ozren had been right about one thing: some things just don't have happy endings."

Pat, I totally agree with you and JoanK about the haggadah.
Moreover I believe that the Lola chapter is especially moving, meaningful and, yes, symbolic: that Lola was the one who happened upon the manuscript and held it so gently, reverently, as if divining what a treasure it was.

Babi · « **Reply #373 on:** August 14, 2009, 09:00:57 AM »

I'm glad to hear the head librarian takes an interest, MAHLIA. Considering
the widespread interest in books here, you would think more librarians would
check to see what we are reading. But I'm sure they have their own resources
for sort of info. The librarians here are very resonsive to the interests of
their patrons, I'm happy to say.

I think we tend to forget that Ozren's previous contact with Hanna was fairly
brief. The book was immensely important to him, whereas Hanna was there a
while, then gone. After the truth came out, he offered Hanna his explanation
and apparently she found it valid. Whether I would have or not I can't say.
I guess you had to be there.

JoanP · « **Reply #374 on:** August 14, 2009, 03:51:12 PM »

Babi, that's a good point - Ozren's main concern would have been for the safety of the Haggadah - rather than for Hanna's feelings. As you point out, their's was a brief relationship. In fact they had stopped seeing one another before she left Sarajevo.

Traudee, do you think it was too much of a coincidence that it was Lola who escaped with the Kamals - smuggling the Haggadah out of Sarajevo - and then, years later, it is Lola who finds it on the shelf as she dusts in Jerusalem? I guess it makes some sense that very few people would know what they were looking at if they found the book - it would take someone who recognized it to know what it is. Still, I thought it was too much of a fairy tale ending - the way she discovered the book.

I keep overlooking the fact that this is fiction...

About the Sharansky family's request - I have to ask why they decided to put the foundation in the hands of Aaron's daughter, rather than leave it in control of the mother of his child - as it had been for years. Why did they take it from Sarah? She has so little connection with the man she loved. That car accident seems to be threatening her position in the hospital as well as any connection with her former lover...to say nothing of his daughter. Does anyone feel sympathy for Sarah Heath - or does Hanna get all or your attention?

Frybabe · « **Reply #375 on:** August 14, 2009, 06:12:18 PM »

I have very little sympathy for Sarah, although I do feel a little sorry for her. She brought most of her woes on herself. I am wondering why they had her on the Foundation in the first place. Her attitude toward Hanna's chosen profession and expertise surely must have shown in her dealings with a foundation dedicated art and archaeological conservation. Actually, I don't remember the book stating the foundation's purpose, just that they were supporting a project doing conservation of Aboriginal rock art.

straudetwo · « **Reply #376 on:** August 14, 2009, 08:44:35 PM »

JoanP
We are not told what Sarah did for the foundation, whether she did it well, or what the job entailed. Would she have had time for it, even? As for "giving her the shove", nobody could blame the Sharanskys for being hurt, even resentful, that Sarah kept Hanna in total ignorance of her father, his work, and the existence of the family -- Delilah lived close enough in Australia in Hanna's early years to watch her from afar. It is quite incomprehensible that a mother, a MOTHER?, could do this, and routinely dismiss a daughter's chosen field.

We note with pleasure that Hanna assumed her father's name -- over Sarah's protests. Yet, if it had not been for Sarah's accident, none of this would be possible. Sarah's revelations in the hospital did have a profound effect on the mother-daughter relationship, as I said earlier. It's all in the plotting. (And I agree with you about Lola.) It all fits perfectly, neatly. Too neatly?

How strong really IS Hanna's own story compared with the glorious journey of the haggadah?

Gumtree · « **Reply #377 on:** August 14, 2009, 09:58:05 PM »

In the final chapeter Hanna mentions a few Aussie things you might like to see:

The painting by Rover Thomas hanging in the Foreign Affairs office where Hanna meets Amatrai - Click on to enlarge figure 3 which is 'Roads Crossing'

http://www.worldaa.com/article.cfm?article=53

Gumtree · « **Reply #378 on:** August 14, 2009, 10:21:34 PM »

And some of Sidney Nolan's work from the 'Ned Kelly' series. Nolan's paintings are not for everyone but they are very powerful.

http://www.ironoutlaw.com/html/gallery.html

PatH · « **Reply #379 on:** August 15, 2009, 01:49:02 AM »

Quote from: JoanP on August 14, 2009, 03:51:12 PM

Babi, that's a good point - Ozren's main concern would have been for the safety of the Haggadah - rather than for Hanna's feelings. As you point out, their's was a brief relationship. In fact they had stopped seeing one another before she left Sarajevo.

Not only was the relationship brief, but don't forget why they stopped seeing each other. Hanna learned about Ozren's son, and , at Ozren's insistence, accompanied him to the hospital for a visit. But she wanted no part of such a tragedy, or of someone who was going through it, and didn't sleep with Ozren again. She didn't look like someone willing to accept him as a whole person.

Babi · « **Reply #380 on:** August 15, 2009, 09:40:56 AM »

My first reaction to the Rover Thomas paintings was that they are quite
simplistic. Then I looked closer at "The Crossroads" and saw those two
hands reaching out from either side of the crossroad. More subtlety and depth
there than I first thought. Thanks for the link, GUM.
I had to look up Ned Kelly. I had a vague idea he was an Australian outlaw,
but that's all. It appears there are some movies and a TV drama in the works
about him. I'll be interested in watching for those. Sidney Nolan's work is
certainly colorful, but I wonder if that lack of perspective and seeming
weakness in anatomy is deliberate...or not.

PATH, I'm remembering the incident of Hanna's visit to see Ozern's son
somewhat differently. Being Sarah Heath's daughter, she tried to persuade
Ozren to seek further opinions on his son's condition. He became very angry.
I assume that was because he had already done everything possible, and
resented her assuming he would have done anything less. It must have taken long and painful years for him to come to terms with his loss. I can see how he would be angry at her for disturbing what peace he had gained.
Whatever Hanna's personal feelings about her mother, she does seem to think Sarah can do anything in her specialty field. I don't think it was that Hanna "wanted no part of such a tragedy". On the contrary, she was interfering where she was not wanted.

JoanP · « **Reply #381 on:** August 15, 2009, 10:05:03 AM »

It's funny how we read into these characters - as if they are human - rather than GBrooks' imaginary characters. Perhaps that is one of the author's strengths, bringing the characters to life, so that we are talking about them as if there is more going on with them than we see on the page. Credit where credit is due. Perhaps we can forgive her the stretches, the unlikely coincidences that we question...in exchange for these engaging characterizations.

I saw Ozren as objecting to outside interference. The Bosnian doctors had done what they could. He bristled at the suggestion that outsiders could do more. Let's say that Sarah Heath looked at those xrays, or other test results, and saw that something could be done for the boy, as Hanna was hoping when she took them to Boston - What then? Would Ozren have reacted the same way, not wanting to put the boy through more than he had already been through?

Are you seeing a parallel here between Ozren and Sarah Heath - both of them avoiding treatment that may have saved the lives of loved ones?

JoanP · « **Reply #382 on:** August 15, 2009, 11:08:33 AM »

Gum, thanks so much for the Australian artwork referred to in this chapter. I wondered if the two paintings are actually hanging in the Dept. of Foreign Affairs in Australia - or if this is more of GBrooks' fiction? Can someone remind me again of the reason the Haggadah was brought to Australia from Jerusalem? And why was it left to Hanna to smuggle it back in? I guess the answer to the question might be - who else? But it did seem a bit far-fetched, didn't it?

Babi, I hadn't noticed those hands in the Rover Thomas painting either - thanks for pointing them out. I hadn't enlarged it. The painting fits very nicely into the theme of unity, doesn't it? And Crossroads.

From the site Gum provided -

Quote

In 1995 Thomas visited the country of his birth for the first time in 40 years. The arduous trip through the Great Sandy Desert to Gunawaggi provided Thomas with the inspiration to paint ancestral subjects connected with this country

I'm seeing Geraldine Brooks' love for Australia in her references to its art and antiquity - in Hanna. I feel that Hanna's roots are in Australia - just as Ozren's are in Sarajevo. Although we are left with the image of Ozren "reaching" for Hanna - and Hanna not pulling away, I'm not so sure I see a future for the two...a happily ever after ending.
And now that Hanna has taken over her father's foundation, doesn't it seem that she will be spending much of her time in Australia?
If she has forgiven Ozren for the betrayal, it is my hope that she will find some compassion for Sarah Heath - who is in a bad way, as we leave her. I'm glad I'm not one of her patients getting ready for surgery. Don't think Sarah is up to it. But without surgery, does she want to live?

ps Gum, I'm going to have to admit that I don't get the Ned Kelly paintings - though they are vivid and powerful. What's the black rectangle on Ned Kelly's head in each painting?

straudetwo · « **Reply #383 on:** August 15, 2009, 12:42:51 PM »

We are indebted to Gumtree who's added immeasurably to what we know about Australia, its history and culture.
If we had researched the "down under", which includes New Zealand, on our own, it would doubtless have taken us longer to find the pertinent links that are now at our disposal for further perusal.

[JoanP][/b]
In a hearty discussion we always become involved in the fictional characters' lives, and sometimes question their decisions. The final answer, of course, is always with the author, and we have no choice but to accept it.

More important IMHO is OUR lasting impression, OUR evaluation of this book, which was clearly written from the heart.
WHAT is this book? It involves secrets, but is it a mystery? a thriller?

Gumtree · « **Reply #384 on:** August 15, 2009, 12:54:56 PM »

Fear not, JoanP a lot of folk don't really 'get' the Kelly paintings.
The black rectangle on Kelly's head is in fact bullet proof armour which he wore during the seige at Glenrowan in Victoria when his gang members were killed - the armour saved Kelly then but he was later hanged for murder. Some see Kelly as some kind of folk-hero but he was no Robin Hood and most of his crimes were premeditated. The best book about him IMO is the Peter Carey True History of the Kelly Gang which won the Booker Prize a few years back. Kelly's own document known as 'The Jerilderie Letter' which was dictated by him and written down by one of his followers not long before he met his comeuppance is also worth reading specially in relation to Carey's take on the matter.

Here's a link to Ned Kelly's Armour held by Victorian State Library:

http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/collections/treasures/kelly_armour/kellyarmour1.html

I think it hightly likely that the Rover Thomas and Nolan paintings are (or were) actually hanging in the Dept Foreign Affairs offices in Sydney - they tend to rotate items from the National Collection around Government Offices, Parliament House etc. I did notice that GB didn't actually name the Kelly painting by Nolan hanging in DFAT offices- so she may have fudged that one.

Babi Still on Ned Kelly - did you know that Ned Kelly was the subject of the first full length feature movie ever made anywhere and that it was made right here in Australia somewhere around 1900.

As for Sidney Nolan, he had no trouble with perspective, anatomy or anything else in his artwork. In the Kelly series everything is deliberate -taken together, the paintings explore the complete narrative of Kelly's life including the seige and his trial - but each one stands alone as well. Nolan was a consummate artist and his work is held in collections around the globe.

Gumtree · « **Reply #385 on:** August 15, 2009, 01:05:16 PM »

I just noticed that the link to Ned Kelly's armour in the post above also has a link to the Jerilderie Letter - look on the side bar to the left if you're interested.

ANNIE · « **Reply #386 on:** August 15, 2009, 03:02:00 PM »

Gum,
I understood the Kelly paintings but I think that I knew about the Kelly gang previously as I either read or saw their history in a book or a recent movie. I will have to look it up. Thanks for the links.
I found this link to the movie: NED KELLY
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0277941/

EvelynMC · « **Reply #387 on:** August 15, 2009, 05:03:22 PM »

Thanks for all the links, it took hours to catch up and look at all the links.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this book and it has been made more enjoyable by all your comments. The people, especially Hanna, are very real to me.

The break between Sarah and Hanna was almost inevitable and I guess we can draw our own conclusions as to whether it will last. Sarah kept Hanna from a very loving family and I just don't know how Hanna could have ever forgiven her for that. But on page 343 (paperback version) when Sarah and Hanna have the conversation about whether Hanna should take the position with the Sharansky Foundation and Hanna says she has skills that they might find useful. Sarah is so deprecating, "Skills? What skills could you possibly have, darling?...

"It's bad enough, Hanna, that you've spent all these years playing with paste and scraps of paper. But at least books have something to do with culture. Now you are proposing to go out to the middle of absolutely nowhere, to save meaningless, muddy daubs of primitives?"

And then as the argument continues all the rest of the revelations, so that we may now perceive why Sarah has kept the knowlege of her father from Hanna. Sarah played God and has been tormented by it all these years. So Hanna is the one who had to pay.

I would not have forgiven Ozren...No way... Once betrayed, where is the trust? How could she ever trust him again?

They had a real adventure, putting back the haggadah which makes for camraderie. So perhaps in the last sentence when she didn't pull away, it just meant she hugged him as a farewell gesture, and went back to Australia...sadder and wiser. (At least I hope so).

Evelyn

Gumtree · « **Reply #388 on:** August 16, 2009, 01:28:14 AM »

Adoannie thanks for the link to the Heath Ledger version of the Kelly Legend. Ledger was brilliant as Kelly -and others in the cast were also superb- Orlando Bloom and the master actor Geoffrey Rush for instance. Ledger's early death was felt keenly here in Perth as he was a local lad.

The original film was made in 1906 and it has been added to the United Nations Heritage Register - not for Kelly's infamy but for being the first feature film worldwide.

Here's a link to the major films made about Kelly during the century since 1906.

www.ironoutlaw.com/html/movies.html

Traude It is my pleasure and so little.

JoanP · « **Reply #389 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:24:26 AM »

Evelyn - that's interesting - a farewell hug. See how many interpretations the reader brings to such a detail?
A month wasn't long enough to address all the detail Geraldine Brooks has packed into this book. As Chazz wrote, it "screams" of all the research the author did to accomplish the story of the book. Now comes the time we step back from the detail and examine the overall impact.

I suppose the important thing is - did you enjoy the book? Did you enjoy it more by sharing the experience, knowledge and research of other readers here?
Let's use this final week for a frank discussion of this book. There are questions in the heading to consider from a number of different sources, BUT please don't confine yourself to these questions. (You rarely do

)

We can add more questions, your own questions that you feel need further consideration.
It would be easier to tally your responses if you don't put them all in one long post. We really want to hear what you thought of this book!

Have a great day, everyone!

so P bubble · « **Reply #390 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:41:57 AM »

I know this is late to elaborate more, but I came to the book too late to comment then.
In the chapter The Wine Stain, there is the mention f Dona de Serena.
This is not a fictitious person. I think she has not been identified here, but the figure is based on the real person Doña Gracia Nasi, or by her other name Hannah Mendes.

Read about her here

http://www.cryptojews.com/woman_who_defied_kings.htm

You will notice it matches closely the description in our story.

The fictionalized novel 'The Ghost of Hanna Mendes' by Naomi Ragen is well worth reading.The book "The Woman Who Defied Kings" By Andrée Aelion Brooks probably even more so but I haven't found a copy yet.

Babi · « **Reply #391 on:** August 16, 2009, 09:31:55 AM »

GUM, I didn't even know the first full length feature movie was made in
Australia. I'm willing to bet 99.9% of Americans assume the first one was
made in America. I'll remember that tidbit; maybe I can bring it up and
surprise people. (Probably start an arugment. )
That's what I was wondering about Nolan's paintings..whether that seeming
awkwardness was deliberate. I'll have to look into his work and see if
his other paintings are similar to the Kelly series.

BUBBLE, what a fascinating woman! I would love to read that book, too.
I'll join you in the hunt. Do let me know if you find anything.

Babi · « **Reply #392 on:** August 16, 2009, 09:38:07 AM »

GUM, I found a couple of copies on BooksaMillion.com. Link below.
Since they are somewhat over my laughable budget, I plan to ask my
library to check for an interlibrary loan.

http://www.booksamillion.com/search?id=4504296063984&query=The+Woman+Who+Defied+Kings&where=Books&search.x=62&search.y=14

so P bubble · « **Reply #393 on:** August 16, 2009, 10:19:21 AM »

http://www.paragonhouse.com/product.php?productid=216

It sounds entrailing!
But shipping being more than the price of the book, I'll search in second hands shops here.

straudetwo · « **Reply #394 on:** August 16, 2009, 11:32:01 AM »

Bubble, most interesting background information in the article by Andrée Aelion Brooks ! Well worth following up.
Incidentally, the Italian city to which Doña Gracia went from Venice next must have been FerrAra (for there is no FerrEra in Italy), governed by the Dukes of Este.

It is no surprise that the secular popes of the Renaissance accepted bribes. The most controversial of them was Pope Alexander VI, born Rodrigo Borgia, well known for his political machinations, who admitted to have fathered children, among them Cesare Borgia and Lucrezia Borgia. The name Borgia became a byword for the debased standards of the papacy in that era.

Gumtree · « **Reply #395 on:** August 17, 2009, 01:30:34 AM »

An earlier question raised was in relation to whether the Haggadah should remain in Sarajevo'

I rather think so. It has had a troubled history along with its various owners and has moved from place to place with them finally coming rest in Sarajevo. Again, the Haggadah was threatened, protected and finally has now been restored to its rightful place as a priceless artifact. Maybe it will continue its long journey sometime in the coming centuries but for the moment Sarajevo is its home.

ANNIE · « **Reply #396 on:** August 17, 2009, 10:52:41 AM »

Are we supposed to be giving our opinion of the book now???And whether we agree with the placement of the haggadah in Sarajevo??

JoanP · « **Reply #397 on:** August 17, 2009, 11:30:34 AM »

Annie, we have been talking about whether we thought the Haggadah belonged in Sarajeveo or not - would you want to add that question to the header?
I'm going to recopy yesterday's post, just in case - you can add any questions to the header that you would like to talk about this week -

Quote

A month wasn't long enough to address all the detail Geraldine Brooks has packed into this book. Now comes the time we step back from the detail and examine the overall impact.

I suppose the important thing is - did you enjoy the book? Did you enjoy it more by sharing the experience, knowledge and research of other readers here?
Let's use this final week for a frank discussion of this book. There are questions in the heading to consider from a number of different sources, BUT please don't confine yourself to these questions. (You rarely do )

We can add more questions, your own questions that you feel need further consideration.
It would be easier to tally your responses if you don't put them all in one long post. We really want to hear what you thought of this book!

Let's hear from you - now, this week, before we archive this discussion!

JoanP · « **Reply #398 on:** August 17, 2009, 12:05:59 PM »

Bubble, thank you for the information on Doña Gracia Nasi. Surely our Ms. Brooks would have heard of this character on whom she based her Doña de Serena - and yet there is no mention of her in the "Afterword," in which she writes about a good number of the real people of the book on whom her fictional characters are based.
Do you think that is a bit odd?

How many of you read the "Afterword first?" Was it helpful to have the factual information before, or while reading the book, rather than to wait until you had finished the book? Why do you think this information was placed at the end of the book?

so P bubble · « **Reply #399 on:** August 17, 2009, 12:19:00 PM »

I have not read yet the afterword, but if the author did not mention Hannah Mendes, It is very strange because she is not unknown. Ragen's novel about her was quite successful in reminding people of her existence, even if she appears there as a guiding ghost. Maybe it is a question to ask her, how come the silence...

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Author Topic: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online (Read 106682 times)